Doc Team/2008-11-07

Jeremy Linden: Hi Jon, hi Arawn. Welcome to Documentation Office Hours.
Arawn Spitteler: Hi, Jeremy. Jon looks realy serious, today.
WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Arawn Spitteler has pinged you.
Jon Linden: today this entire couch is mine!
Jeremy Linden: He's a serious detective!
Jeremy Linden: Don't spill on it.
Jon Linden: i will attempt to adhere to this guideline
Arawn Spitteler waits for the belch
Jeremy Linden: He's got a straw to relieve the pressure, I think.
Jon Linden: there's probably a gesture for "shake power activate" somewhere
Arawn Spitteler: SLim raises many questions, that might not be answered yet. Perhaps the questions are still being mulled. I'm not familiar, with searching the forums, though.
Jon Linden: a few questions have come in via ticket whose answers may be folded into the SLim article
Arawn Spitteler: I've been asking in the Jira, but that's been summarised as, Where's the Forum?
Kate Linden: Hi :)
Jeremy Linden: Hey Kate. Welcome.
Kate Linden: What's the topic ?
Arawn Spitteler: I'd like this feature, and that, until we need to see lurkers in friends conferences, so we can't be griefed by objects opening them, nd engaging in dialog, etc. If it's my object, for a friends conference, or a group discussion, I should be advised when SLim is available, but that's more than Beta Test down the road.
Jon Linden: right now we're discussing SLim and questions surrounding it
Arawn Spitteler: I couldn't type in who I wanted to IM, and haven't yet found a person on my list with a compatible viewer.
Jon Linden: since it's a First Look, i would guess that uptake is bound to be a little sporadic
Kate Linden: Yeah, SLim is a light version providing communication with the friends list in the First Look viewer.
Jon Linden: hello Memorial! welcome to Documentation Office Hours
Memorial Dae: Greetings
Arawn Spitteler: If others haven't the first look viewer, then it's going to be hard to test.
Jon Linden: gotta start somewhere
Kate Linden: I noticed it helps to refresh the list also. If someone from your friends list joins SLim then it will include their info after a refresh.
Arawn Spitteler: I have SLim, but don't use the 1.21.3, because it's still crashy. Does that mean I'm not SLim Friendly?
Arawn Spitteler: Refreshing the list, off-line, or by logging in with the SLim First Look Viewer?
Jon Linden: you need to use the SLim First Look viewer in order for SLim to work for you at all
Arawn Spitteler: Routinely, or just to initiate? I noticed, my friends list wasn't inhabited, until I used it a second time.
Memorial Dae: which version?
Arawn Spitteler: I'm on hte last RC, 1.21.5
Memorial Dae: odd, I will have to test that on a clean machine
Arawn Spitteler: if someone's got an alt, they could try IMming me, while I'm on it.
Jon Linden: the SLim client seems to have a few issues, heh; that's why it's a First Look
Memorial Dae: Exactly
Jon Linden: Memorial, do you have any questions or comments for us about the Second Life Knowledge Base?
Memorial Dae: Not at this time Jon.
Arawn Spitteler: That's understood, by those who don't need it repeted slowly. But the Viewer is going to have how much influence, over whether it works?
Memorial Dae: I am reading browsing it currently.
Jon Linden: excellent
Jon Linden: is there specific information you're looking for?
Jon Linden: not to put you on the spot; i'm just curious to see what your experience is like, especially if you're looking at it for the first time
Memorial Dae: I came by to ask about why my browser started giving me the unsecure warning window last week when I go to the page but I figured it out. Settings had changed on the browser.
Jon Linden: nice
Arawn Spitteler warns: Warning - Warning - This warning is insecure. If you think you received this warning from a Linden, please copy all account information to...
Jon Linden: i'm trying to think what else i usually ask newcomers to this office hour
Jon Linden: if you don't have a ready answer, that is totally understandable, but: are there any areas in which you think the Knowledge Base could use more information?
Memorial Dae: FAQS - OpenGrid explination? OGP?
Jeremy Linden: For the most part, our Open Source documentation lives on the Second Life wiki: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Portal
Memorial Dae: Ok, I just know in the past when we had some mention or pointer to those resources, like when OPEN was in its infancy
Jeremy Linden: As for OGP, it appears to have its own page, but it could use some work: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OGP
Memorial Dae: A lot of people really DO go to teh knowledge base as a first spot to track things down.
Jon Linden: that's good to hear!
Cummere Mayo: hey arawn
Jon Linden: hello Cummere! welcome to Documentation Office Hours
Cummere Mayo eeps
Arawn Spitteler: We're having a special on the documentation surrounding SLim
Cummere Mayo: sorry jon let me change i wasnt expecign to drop into a linden office hour ><
Arawn Spitteler: It would be good, if Stephanie could arrange an hour, or five.
Jon Linden: heh; no problem
Arawn Spitteler: You're all grey, to me, a lovely shade
Cummere Mayo: well tahts better then being all sheer ><
Jon Linden: i wouldn't say we have a hugely strict dress code at this office hour anyway, Cummere
Jon Linden: Arawn, Stephany is one of the busiest Lindens I know, and that's saying something
Arawn Spitteler: All work and no office hour makes for an intellectual muscle bound
Cummere Mayo: hello kate, jon and jeremy, now that i can see you
WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Cummere Mayo has pinged you.
Jeremy Linden: Hello, Cummere.
Jon Linden: heh
Jon Linden: hello!
Arawn Spitteler: Hi Becky
Becky Pippen: Hi all :-)
Cummere Mayo: and i apologize for tping in in um revelaing cloathing ><
Arawn Spitteler: First time I heard about Muscle Bound, I didn't understand it was a liability.
Jon Linden: it's Becky Pippen!
Jeremy Linden: Hi Becky. Welcome back!
Becky Pippen: thanks!
Arawn Spitteler: Revealling Grey?
Arawn Spitteler likes to watch, when the skin rezzes before the clothing
Jeremy Linden saw nothing but gray and blur. No worries.
Cummere Mayo: >< *makes a note to start wearing only no bit skins around arawn :P*
Arawn Spitteler: You're still grey, so I don't think you've any worries
Cummere Mayo: /ao off
Arawn Spitteler: Is there a forum thread, for SLim?
Jon Linden: becky, any news or questions for us? it seems like it's been a while
Becky Pippen: nothing much new... I'm back in school and been crazy busy :-)
Arawn Spitteler: School for What?
Jon Linden: arawn, i'm not sure -- i admit that i don't spend any time in the forums (i'm pretty busy)
Becky Pippen: i'm determined to get a CS degree someday :-)
Arawn Spitteler: Graduate?
Becky Pippen: i'm still working on my BS degree... if only i didn't change majors so often i've have it by now
Arawn Spitteler: What major did you begin with?
Becky Pippen: started non-technical, then got into engineering, and most recently I changed because of SL-- I've had so much fun scripting in SL that I had to pursue programming
Jon Linden: that's pretty excellent
Arawn Spitteler: Non-Technical? I understand Philosophy has legs, in software design
Arawn Spitteler: Finish your Bread and Butter Bachalaureate, then do Math and Philosophy in Grad School. Handicapped Riding Therapy would probably help, once you're an emplooyed Geek.
Becky Pippen: :-)
Jon Linden: or, uh, just get your CS degree and see where that takes you
Arawn Spitteler: I was reading Helen Keller, a couple weeks ago, and Philosophy was actually a practical luxury, in those days.
Jon Linden: quite possible
Jon Linden: Cummere, do you have any questions or comments about the Second Life Knowledge Base?
Jon Linden: it doesn't matter if it seems trivial to you
Jon Linden: we get use out of things like "I can't find anything on ____"
Arawn Spitteler: Skipping the trivial stuff is very useful, if you want to prove that 1+1=1
Cummere Mayo takes a deep breath and then shakes her head "you really dotn want me to go there right now jon "
Jon Linden: heh
Arawn Spitteler: Yeah, is there anything planned, for the SLim Support Page not linking to http://secondlife.com/slim?
Jon Linden: Arawn, can you rephrase the question?
Arawn Spitteler recalls once proving that ln(x) = x, by dropping dx at a convenient spot
Arawn Spitteler: The support page we got last week, didn't work, for starting SLim. Kate had to point me to the second page.
Jon Linden: i am not doing your calc homework, Arawn ^__^
Becky Pippen giggles
Kate Linden: Since this is a First Look viewer and client, any bugs, info should go to the Issue Tracker.
Cummere Mayo: jon my issues arent so much how eay it is to find things or not on Sl's documenation sources so much as how they are spread out between too many places to be useful, and what people in LL with probably more authroity then you decide what should or shouldnt go on those pages
Jon Linden: can you give me some examples, Cummere?
Kate Linden: Oh... I pointed you to the First Look download page and the KB article.
Jon Linden: secondlife.com/slim does point to the KB article, in two places
Cummere Mayo: well for example, I shoudlnt have to search the kb, the blog, AND the forums jsut to knwo what major events are gonna happen any given day, or what policies LL is deciding to pursue for any given 5 minutes of time etc etc
Cummere Mayo: for another example.... office hour listings
Jon Linden: office hours are in one spot on the wiki, as far as i'm aware
Cummere Mayo: wiki, calandar, and kb all have listings
Cummere Mayo: and none of them entriely complete or accurate
Jon Linden: generally, the wiki listing should be the most accurate
Jon Linden: i'm having trouble locating a place where we actually specify office hours in the KB
Kate Linden: I think it is linked from the Who are Lindens article.
Cummere Mayo: thats part of the trouble jon. its kinda spread out and hidden in various things and theres a couple of lindens still that state "my office hours are foudn int he KB under such and such
Cummere Mayo: its really really annoying
Arawn Spitteler: The Office Hours belong in the Wiki, becausethey're likely to change, but some docuentation of what is handled by whom, would help to show the gaps where office hours are missing.
Kate Linden gave you GG Office Hours HUD v1.4.
Jon Linden: i am fairly confident that we don't actually list anybody's specific office hours in the KB
Cummere Mayo: theres lindens that only post their office hours to the google clanader, some that only post to the kb usuaklly ins ome obscure and ********g stupid place, and some that only post to the wiki
Jon Linden: there might be a place where we explain what office hours ARE, but we link to the wiki
Jon Linden: arawn, you mean like a "who does what" sort of article? "zero works on inventory, jeremy is the avatar rendering guy, etc"?
WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Jon Linden has pinged you.
Jeremy Linden: No individual Linden's office hour should be listed in the Knowledge Base. Jon, Kate, and I are the only ones who add anything there, and at most, there is an article that points to the one most current official page for office hours, the wiki.
Cummere Mayo: and then finally theres the question of what is decided to be included on things put in the KB, and usually at decisions im thinking are above any of the three of you that make me want to jsut drive to boston, and take a cahir upside someone's head
Jeremy Linden: Heh. That's dangerous to me.
Arawn Spitteler: If you can recall which lindens posted so, they might be reminded that black boxes don't always pass the smoke test
Arawn Spitteler: Jeremy would prefer you drive to San Francisco
WidgetHUD v1.1 (Mono): Arawn Spitteler has pinged you.
Cummere Mayo: boston is closer :P
Jon Linden: our chairs are pretty heavy, anyway
Arawn Spitteler: Three or four hours from here.
Cummere Mayo: dotn worry though jon, i think yould be safe
Jeremy Linden: Hang on, let me go buy some sandbags so I can make a barricade.
Arawn Spitteler: Much better than Chairs...
Cummere Mayo: but to put a major policy anouncement up link it to the KB and put TBD under the very parts that most people are worried about uuuuggggggg
Jeremy Linden: Oh, you are referring to the Openspace/Homestead announcement.
Jon Linden: you mean for things like "what exactly constitutes gambling"?
Arawn Spitteler: The page that didn't work for me is at https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=5615 and I see it hasn't been updated yet. SLim is a work in progress, and details of current development should be programmed to taper into eventual success.
Cummere Mayo: that was one example but not the oen that im thinking of right now
Cummere Mayo: if it will help clarify ill change tags, though im afraid i do it will make you crindge
Cummere Mayo: *cringe
Arawn Spitteler: There's a funny story, about Gambling, in Second Life, that goes back to the Civil War.
Jon Linden: arawn, what page didn't work for you?
Jon Linden: that link opens for me
Jon Linden: it's the KB article
Arawn Spitteler: https://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=5615
Jon Linden: yes
Jon Linden: that link functions. it opens the KB article about SLim.
Cummere Mayo: not working for me that link
Jon Linden: does it not work for you?
Jon Linden: now that's interesting
Cummere Mayo: bet perms are set wrong
Arawn Spitteler: Once opened, it goes to the instructions that didn't get SLim started for me.
Jon Linden: that really should be working
Cummere Mayo: let me try logging in?
Jon Linden: Cummere, try taking the "s" off "https" ?
Jon Linden: that's the only thing i can think of; it should be universally viewable
Kate Linden: perms look ok on it.
Cummere Mayo: yeah without the s it works
Jeremy Linden: http://support.secondlife.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4417&task=knowledge&questionID=5615
Jon Linden: i'm glad we got that sorted out in time for the end of the office hour!
Jeremy Linden: HTTPS assumes you're logged into our Support system already.
Arawn Spitteler: It allowed me to download SLim, and the Firstlook Viewer, but not to register an account.
Jon Linden: i think when you install the SLim client, it asks you to create your account there
Jon Linden: i'm not actually sure, i haven't tried it myself
Arawn Spitteler: Didn't work, wouldn't let me.
Jon Linden: i got nothin'
Arawn Spitteler: I had to go to http://secondlife.com/slim to click on that button on the bottom.
Jon Linden: ah
Jon Linden: i'll follow up with somebody
Jon Linden: folks, we are out of time this week -- feel free to drop by next week!
Becky Pippen: Thanks guys!
Jon Linden: thank you for coming!
Jon Linden: have an excellent weekend
Jeremy Linden: We're here at the same time each week. See you all soon
Jeremy Linden: !
Cummere Mayo: take care