Second Life Wiki - User contributions [en]

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-07-02

2009-07-02T21:12:10Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: Created page with '<div id='box'> == List of Attendees == <div style='padding: 0.5em'> *Jack Linden *DAD Bingyi *Ethereal Clarity ...'

<div id='box'>
== List of Attendees ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]
*[[User:DAD Bingyi|DAD Bingyi]]
*[[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]
*[[User:Sling Trebuchet|Sling Trebuchet]]
*[[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]
*[[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]
*[[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]
*[[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]
*[[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]
*[[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]
*[[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]
*[[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]
*[[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]
*[[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]
*[[User:Tawney Bian|Tawney Bian]]
*[[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]
*[[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]
*[[User:Peter Bouscario|Peter Bouscario]]
*[[User:Wynochee LeShelle|Wynochee LeShelle]]
*[[User:Nicki Reisler|Nicki Reisler]]
*[[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]
*[[User:Sagana Crystal|Sagana Crystal]]
*[[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]
*[[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]
*[[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]
*[[User:Ayesha Lytton|Ayesha Lytton]]
*[[User:Wekomen Klaar|Wekomen Klaar]]
*[[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]
*[[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]
*[[User:Mex Sands|Mex Sands]]
*[[User:TorqueDom3 Primeau|TorqueDom3 Primeau]]
*[[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]
*[[User:Derrek Darkfold|Derrek Darkfold]]
*[[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]
*[[User:DJ Flamand|DJ Flamand]]
*[[User:Sylva Petrov|Sylva Petrov]]
*[[User:Lavender Siamendes|Lavender Siamendes]]
*[[User:Land BodyGuard|Land BodyGuard]]
*[[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]
*[[User:Constanza Amsterdam|Constanza Amsterdam]]
*[[User:Laica Forcella|Laica Forcella]]
</div></div>

<div id='box'>
== Transcript ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hey folks!
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:DAD Bingyi|DAD Bingyi]]: Hello jack
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: here comes the bling patrol
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Sling Trebuchet|Sling Trebuchet]]: What have you done with the real Jack?
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: real jack?
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: You obviously don't know Jack. :D
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Sling Trebuchet|Sling Trebuchet]]: LOL! AN earlier chat before you arrived :)
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Hey Jack, can you comment on this:[10:58] IntLibber Brautigan: but ya, Jacks no longer Director of Customer Service/[10:59] IntLibber Brautigan: but they havent filled the job yet
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: inside info ?
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Must be!
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: 1/4" Jack is the real Jack ;-)
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Dilute to taste?
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: doh, his jobs been advertised as open on lindenlab.com for two months
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: lurk moar
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, I am very much still the Director of Customer Relations. No idea why he is saying that other than that we've been looking to hire additional directors
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Wait, could there possible be a difference between Customer Relations and Customer Service?
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Who is your supervisor, or rather, who is in charge of the land team?
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Could be
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: Jack, your legs seem to be bound....are you now Adult content?
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Customer Relations is very large, and I wear two hats already (Customer Relations and Land), so we're looking to add someone to the team
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: One simply relates to customers, or tries to. :) The other actually /services/ them? :P
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: bots ?
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: Are you primary Land person?
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We just have the one dept.. customer relations.
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: Goto guy? Hed Honcho?
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I am the Land person yes.
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: And who is head of that department, and Land?
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: YAY!
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: I have a question about terraform limits.....WHY?
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: To avoid terrorforming? :P
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: You mean why have limits at all?
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: Ok,,,,,,I know why....general incompetence
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: but in i
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: if youd seen my first terraform accident youd understand why limits are in place
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: thank you for the clarification Jack, now perhaps you could explain why someone with two 256 square meter parcels that were not for sale with only signs for his own website was permbanned for ad farming?
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: this circumstance....
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Hi Jack, hello all
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Lindens don't like emergent phenomena ... ie. unplanned surprises.
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:DAD Bingyi|DAD Bingyi]]: Jack, we don't undestand why Linden lab suspended account anyway?
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: he was chaeting intlibber
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: lol
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Tawney Bian|Tawney Bian]]: Jack, do you happen to know if the Zindra island migration tickets the mainland migration tickes are in the same que? Not complaining, just getting a timeframe
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Jack can't discuss individual situations... >.>
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: and perhaps you can comment, Jack, about why the governance team has refused to hold an office hours event in a year
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: he cut a 512 into 2 x 256 m2 .. dumped on hald cheaply and try to sell the other at 25.0
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: Allow +-40 for say 90 days if every parcel owner in the Zindra SIM is onboard with it?
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Intlibber, I have no way to deal with specific cases in an office hour as I can't talk about individuals. You'd have to talk to support about that
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Questin Jack , how many Migration tickets did you got so far and how many do you expect ?
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: FREEDOM FOR ROBO
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: For just Zindra moves
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: more than 1 ad per sim, maybe....oversized ads
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: next subject :P
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:DAD Bingyi|DAD Bingyi]]: yeah freedom for ROBO!
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Robo IS free.. from SL. :D
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: they were for sale
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: I have Jack, but the star chamber KGB tactics of the governance team prevent any sort of oversight of the allegedly Tao of Linden following Linden Lab staff
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: SECOND LIFE COMMUNIST
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: More importantly, SL is free from Robo :D
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We don't ban people lightly, there is a lot that has to happen before we take that step and in most cases no-one but the individual will know the real reasoning or situation
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: How about talking about the PRINCIPLE of such bans, not about the specific case. Otherwise it's just brushing under the carpet.
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Sling Trebuchet|Sling Trebuchet]]: ROBO can take op knitting in RL
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: Jack I am totally aware of the events surrounding ROBOS ban, and these people and Harry totally falsified everything
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: It was a communist plot
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: maybe the lab can track back cuts Intlibber ?
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:DAD Bingyi|DAD Bingyi]]: Why linden lab kill the free economy of SL
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:DAD Bingyi|DAD Bingyi]]: ?
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Hey Renzo, good question. I think we had 600+ on day one
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: He should try domain camping. Maybe can rip off a few people desperate for the name.
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: maybe robo had already a long record of violations too ?
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Sling Trebuchet|Sling Trebuchet]]: Will Zindra oceanfront continue to be given to first come regardless of the nature of the land they are swapping from?
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Thanks Jack, and how many do you expect at the end of the 2 weeks ?
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: beacuse free economy does not equal rule breaking
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: yes, they falsified buying land, cutting it, and putting up ads in his name. I even have snapshots of them doing it!
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: your facts are wrong int
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Morgaine, i'm happy to talk about principles if you have a specific question
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: Rephrase: To allow folk to get "Like for Like", Why not allow extended terraform limits, subject to final LL approval for first 90 days
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: IntLib, this is a match made in heaven. You have domain name problems. Robo sells domain names! It's perfect!
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Peter Bouscario|Peter Bouscario]]: It is very disturbing that you can be banned for the actions of others.
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: you misrepresented everything
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: There is evidence on the slaptme to being over ten thousand requests as of the evening of the first day
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Oh come on, there's no way there were 10,000 swap requests
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Sling, we're using first come first served yes, but we're also going to bring up a pile more land to cope with the requests for more coastline
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Estimates on how many more sims you'll bring online? Is it decided to bring them up? It seemed in the past you wasn't sure if they would be needed
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Renzo, hard to say. the requests have slowed today so we'll have to see how it goes.
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Wynochee LeShelle|Wynochee LeShelle]]: and snow please;-)
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: Double prim, shallow sloped coastline?
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: 4051-6484813 29/6/2009 10:53 PM PDT
*
*4 29/6/2009 1:36 PM PDT (New)
*
*4 7/1/2009 7:05 PM PDT (New) I
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Nicki Reisler|Nicki Reisler]]: perhaps it should have been an atoll
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Jack, it does seem like processing is very slow... between 20 and 30 tickets from the queue sequence during all of yesterday.
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Eclectic, it's very hard to allow excessive terraforming on shared Mainland regions
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Itg tends to go wrong very quickly hehe
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: this is special circumstance....
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Tumbleweed, even in a best case scenario that is merely the total number of /all/ tickets submitted for any reason
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: particularly for full SIM owners
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Sagana Crystal|Sagana Crystal]]: seems like user stats are way down
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Oh, alright, thank you
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, because so many people want coastline, we'll probably bring some more up - maybe to the SW corner of the area already up
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Sling Trebuchet|Sling Trebuchet]] needs 100 terraforming on the Leuron/Popke boundary :)
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: The team are looking at it today
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: Worse case you just reset
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Do you suggest people who want complete regions in Zindra but whose first choices are taken to wait the addition of more regions, dear Jack ?
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: (Sling, you need a nuke on the Leuran/Popke boundary)
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tumbleweed, the numbers are not a guide, we use that system for external and internal tickets across many different depts
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Very good, Jack, I wasnt aware of that
*[11:11] VisitorMonitor: Laptop Gunes has entered store secondlife:///app/agent/c458c7a3-cf0a-417c-92d8-8b7830c3915d/about secondlife://Steamboat/185/73/88
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: Jack....terraform issue could let many folk have what they want.....Many folk CAN terraform well
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Renzo, might make sense. there are some really nice ones due to come up so talk to support about that
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: And it's easy to reaset
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: tis a fine art terrafomring.
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: reset
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: Volonteer moles
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jack, you should just bring up the ones around the edge and dish those out in swaps, then auction the middle. That'd probably make the most people happy. Assuming you have enough edge
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Eclectic, the problem is that at some point they may move on, sell their land, and then we have a problem if the new owner reverts the land unexpectedly etc
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: I volonteer to help Tumbleweed
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, you get into problems when one person wants to terraform a mountainous parcel, and their neighbor wants a swamp.
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Islands are the best place if you need a lot of terraform freedom
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: After 90 days landswap....fix new terraform
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Yeah Elanthius, that's an option (and yes we have lots of edge)
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: Allow an adjustment and growth period on the new land
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: So, will the cute numbers on these charts rise to the same dismal levels of unsold landmass at worthless prices once all of those that rushed to fill their land with adult content have made the move to Zindra?
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Okay I've just been told that we've had 700 requests total, so far
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Jack, Blondin closed the blog entry about Zindra, where can discuss Zindra problems now ?
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Jack: "Excessive" terraforming is only excessive when you cram parcels together like sardines, as you have in the past. There is no need for artificially created scarcity of land in virtual worlds --- parcels could easily be separated by large enough guard bands that free terraforming doesn't impact on your neighbour.
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: Will LL final aproval of course
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: So that's a little less than we'd expected I think
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: With*
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: And how can we be assured that we will get like for like even in this newly opened land? All 7 of my choices are now already gone, at just the first 5 minutes of tickets
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: The JIRA was closed first, then the forum , then the block comment... People need a space to express themselves
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dirk, we're seeing a lot of people keep their old parcel, so no, i don't think s
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Blog comments
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: *so
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: Morgaine, Jack put a lot of effort into forcing homestead owners back to the mainland with the openspace sim tier hike, theres no way they're going to do anything that makes people feel more free
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Renzo, you could talk direct to support if you still have questions
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah, and thank god for that IntLibber otherwise mainland prices would have really been in the toilet... oh, wait...
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Is it that you want a general forum opened or something?
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: No Jack, I mean a place where people can debate in open sight
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: you mean on a par with estate land?
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Yes, a general forum
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: forums.secondlife.com
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Estates are doing great, or at least mine are. I suppose everyone else is too.
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I'll ask the team to look at creating a forum
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Wynochee LeShelle|Wynochee LeShelle]]: appauds
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Thanks Jack
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: estate land sells for 1L per sqm or less
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: sorry styl rezz for me :)
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: All us quasi-oldbies with grandfathered openspaces will be raking in free cash for at least a year now
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: most just rent it out
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We recently surveyed the top 50 estates, there is a lot of good news there, high occupancy and good growth
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: How the hell can you measure occupancy?
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: miew morgaine :)
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: yeah thats a fake statement if I ever saw one
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: How much of the land available for rent, is rented
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Behave Jack, there's no way you can measure occupancy
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Sling Trebuchet|Sling Trebuchet]]: Ask the lanlord?
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: How do you know if it's available for rent or not? There's no indication anywhere.
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: as one of the top 50 estate owners I can say phooey
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: This isn't our data, it's the estate owners telling us (hence me saying 'survey')
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Landlords are known to be 100% truthful, always
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: lol
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: you never asked me
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: OK, fair enough, I suppose that could work.
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Ayesha Lytton|Ayesha Lytton]]: My regular land is sitting, while Homestead lots rent fast even with high tiers
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Lol Tal
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: If you're in the top 50 estates by size then you should have been emailed about it Intlibber.
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Any sensible landlord would underestimate his occupancy to try to convince LL they need help
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: sorry jack, you guys always seem to forget to do that
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: It's not about the size of your estate, but how you use it.
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hehe Tal
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Sagana Crystal|Sagana Crystal]]: )
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: obviously jack, that means your 'survey' suffers from selection effects if you only email people you know will agree with you
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Sling Trebuchet|Sling Trebuchet]]: A condom-inium?
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Oh oh oh oh oh! Whay is it I can get an email about thanking me for attending the land expo, and another regarding winning a prize about something, But LL cant announce thi sbotched adult content move via email????
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We emailed the top 50, there was no selective filter there. :)
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: If the big 50 estates are doing so well why were you promoting them to the detrriment of smaller estates?
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Top 50 isn't selective? O.o
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Tumbleweed, I'd always felt that sky writing was the best way to make this announcement and I won't rest until I'm fully satisfied
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Ayesha Lytton|Ayesha Lytton]]: I think the problem is that it's summer AND there is lots of open land, due to the Zindra changes and people buying lots of Homesteads before the deadline
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: they're only promoting estates larger than 250 sims
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: and they're doing it for free for them, who can pay the easiest for it
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Im going to go over there and boot you in the head, Elanthius
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Sagana Crystal|Sagana Crystal]]: im against the adult content lock in the new viewer
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Wekomen Klaar|Wekomen Klaar]]: /goodday
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Top 50 erm wouldnt it be better to randomly select estates to query
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: OK, sadly I agree with IntLibber on this subject. It's a total kick in the nuts to see those buggers get even more free hand outs to my detriment. It's practically fascist
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ciaran, didn't we talk about that at a previous office hour? It was a test to see whether it would make sense to offer that kind of promotion generally to estate owners. We needed to understand the impact and it proved to be a fairly small impact in the end
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Ayesha Lytton|Ayesha Lytton]]: I had to buy a ton of homesteads because it was now or never. But it's the worst possible timing
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: Uni that would be far too objective and democratic
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Only a small number of actual logins click the MOTD link
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]] sighs and nods
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Top-50 anything implies a selection process. Top-50 by what metric?
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah, if i5t's so small I sure won't mind if you run my company name across that thing.
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Size
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: RIGHT Jack, only a SMALL number are therefore informed about ACP through MotD!
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Sky writing!
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Log in survey, blue drop down announcements
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: OK Jack, what's going on with the traffic bot thing? How long until some of those guys get banned?
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: They are still talking with them.
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: It shouldn't have happened Jack, it was a poor test case to select.
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: map->ragdoll
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: emails! Im getting spam emails now from LL
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: oh, that reminds me: don't we have to agree to the new TOS at login, at some point?
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: :) well, as i said it was a test. we felt it important to try it out but we know some folks were unhappy about it. but regardless, we will be driving programs and incentives to the estate owners generally to help them grow
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: we're looking at ways to help them promote therir businesses
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: so jack, how about more policing of people who abuse nonprofit status to run for profit estates on the sly?
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: oh do tell help promote mine :P~
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Intlibber, if you have examples of that then do abuse report them
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: I have
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: incentives from the top down Jack?
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Help the big ones grow, or the small ones?
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: Utopia Portugal is running on a university nonprofit shell but earns profits on rentals
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: by the time you get to us we will be gone
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: a communist ?
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: thanks for all the fish
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]] asks through gritted teeth, "So you think a couple days of log in motd day was enough, even though by your own admission i is ineffective?"
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Driftwood, no we're looking at providing programs for all estates
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: <--- is currently using a straw to stay afloat (well just below the surface but i can still breathe
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Not just the largest
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: so you picked the largest... 'to test' ?
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, do let us know when you get around to offering something to "all estates", rather than just the largest. ;)
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Nicki Reisler|Nicki Reisler]]: isn't it your responsibility to figure out your own advertising strategy for your estates?
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I will Tal! :)
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Wait wait, because the effect was so small have you cancelled the roll out to everyone else?
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Is that the subtext here?
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: About the same time as you finish implementing the bot and landcutting policies. We'll leave you our forwarding address to Blue Mars or wherever. :p
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Nicki, it's for the estates to choose how they want to promote, yes, but we can help a lot if estate owners want to work with us
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: I think it was Last week Elan
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: They always do that Alexxa. That is what they did when the private Orientation Experience started out and and that ended up down the toilet
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Sagana Crystal|Sagana Crystal]]: osgrid
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Blue Mars is sh%%%t.
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: I'd rather you just didn't work against us Jack
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: what about the traffic bot situation? Anything else being done to deal with those abusers?
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I said "or wherever" :P
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: :D
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: The story was always that they'd do it for the biggest first and everyone else later
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: please freedom for robo marx
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: thank you Lulu
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yes, unban Robo and then ban him again right after. That would be awesome.
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, we haven't decided but we found that unfocussed traffic wasn't very effective. We think that more focussed promotion, for example on the land pages of the website, may be a much better option
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: we finally have freedome FROM him
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: virtual justice ..
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: unban Robo, give him Austin's parcels, *then* ban him again.
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: That sounds pretty crappy to me mate. So now it really was just free advertising for those who needed it least.
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yeah, he is free.. to predate other worlds. :D
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: And what sort of promotion will you get if you are renting out Adult Estates?
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: hmmm thinks of marketing "free ROBO" tee shirts
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: WIth the governance team having no office hourse, there is absolutely no public oversight of the governance process and SL has become an absolutely fascist world
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: is that "free as in beer" ?
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Small business incentives? oh wait that would be to nice.
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: You can sell the t-shirts for 5555 L$
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: hehe
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I'm not going to discusss Robo I'm afraid guys, we can't discuss individual cases like that
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: i dont share that view Intlibber
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Sling Trebuchet|Sling Trebuchet]]: Free ROBO in every box of CornFlakes
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: fREdOOm FoR rObo
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Mex Sands|Mex Sands]]: do them in spanish rem, free Mr theft
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: free mr theft
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: lol
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: liberad a robo
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: SL has always been an "absolutely fascist" world. Welcome to corporate Amerika, comrade! :P
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: i get the jist but what was robo?
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: robo was a dream of freedom
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: an aboslute angel
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: lmao
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: a new sun in the morning
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: i miss him
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: so a tatal bastard
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Intlibber, would you really expect us to make public all governance cases? If you were in a situation like that would yu want us to talk about the case details publicly?
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: *total
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]] sniffs
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: the better capitalist in the world
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: how much L$ thy paid you Lulu for those comments ?
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: yes, make it public
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Robo already did, so go ahead. :P
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: Jack? Traffic bot situation?
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: Yes Jack
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: traffic is not interesting....robo details are
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: I would very much prefer public due process
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: and a justice system
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Timo: gave shares in ACE, not L$ :P
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: where I would be judged by a jury of my peers
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: not some secret police who are accountable to nobody for anything
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Peter Bouscario|Peter Bouscario]]: that would be good
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Matters of governance *MUST* be public. If you treat each case separately behind closed doors, then it's not public governance.
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:TorqueDom3 Primeau|TorqueDom3 Primeau]]: jack, at a previous meeting, I remember you stating that when we moved to zindra, you would be flexible about giving a somewhat larger ammount of land to make a parcel fit. My friend just had her ticket filled, and the Linden told us she was under strict guidelines that she could only increase the size by a "tiny bit... and cut the parcel requested to almost exactly the same size. would have been agains policy to increase a 35k sqm parcel to 39k?
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: heheh Tal ;))
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: On Soviet LL, that will not happen!
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We've started to suspend some key accounts re. traffic abuse, but we're just starting and the Zindra migration is going to divert some staff for a while
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Ayesha Lytton|Ayesha Lytton]]: I have no opinion on this particular individual, however I do think any g-team actions that result in suspension or ban should be public, similar to criminal records in RL.
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: shares and stories .. no dividends
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Mostly it's been warnings so far
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: thank you Jack
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: please do not ask *GIGGLES* :)[[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]] 21:12, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: "just starting".. sounds like a common mantra around here... >.>
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: and when individuals are found to have filed false abuse reports THEY Should be charged publicly too
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: xstorm you look like a bogey.
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: lol .. you have a cousin in Iran intlibber ?
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: :)
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:TorqueDom3 Primeau|TorqueDom3 Primeau]]: Moon Corrigible: Its only a tad over and Jack did say we could go a bit over if it came to it
*Men: They are over. We can only go a tiny bit over as per instructions.
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Sagana Crystal|Sagana Crystal]]: here here
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: TorqueDom3, I'm not sure of the details there but we are being flexible in so much as we can be. Your friend would need to talk to the support team about it
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: um, inside info - how you know who filed an AR, unless they tell you? THey could have lied to you
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: maybe its just me, but dont the G team follow up on an abuse report and look for themselves?
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: the gteam is corrupt
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:TorqueDom3 Primeau|TorqueDom3 Primeau]]: the ticket is completed
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: proven corrupt by prior events
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: accusing staff ..
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: and hasnt had an office hour event in a year
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: my my
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: so are alot of residents... sounds equal
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: for fear of more public exposure
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: why are you still a resident Intlinner ?
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yeah, they make mistakes, sometimes bad ones, but they get a lot of stuff right, too. Robo is a prime example of the latter. :D
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ethereal, yes the governance staff look into the abuse reports.
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:TorqueDom3 Primeau|TorqueDom3 Primeau]]: she had 35k sqm. was requesting 39k, and refused. she cut 3 k off, said "done" and tp'ed out as we dstood there
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: there is no oversight over the abuses of harry linden
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: I thought so, thank you
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: he is his own appeals process
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I <3 Harry. :D
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:TorqueDom3 Primeau|TorqueDom3 Primeau]]: I think you need to address this with the team, so we dont have to go to support after the fact
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: The rest of the G-Team should be more like Harry. :D
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Intlibber, lets please not make this personal. The team is absolutely not corrupt
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Derrek Darkfold|Derrek Darkfold]]: G'day
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Really I think it would be best if you guys all just checked with IntLibber before banning or warning anyone in future.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Really.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: everyone who does things i dont like is corrupt
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: and communist
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I just hope that Austin doesn't turn out to be Harry's alt. <.<
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: lol Rem
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: Jack you know I proved they were last year
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: shall we pauy tier to Intlibber too ?
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: It's for the best Timo
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: shall I post a link to the tizzers bnt story?
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: who you calling a commie *hides the sycle and hammer
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: that goes to me Timo ;)
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Morgaine Dinova|Morgaine Dinova]]: Matters of governance *MUST* be public. Behind closed doors, all you get are kangaroo courts.
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: drift ;)
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: FREEDON for robo MARX
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: OMG tizzers, I knew there was another scumbag in amongst your cohorts IntLib
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: you are a rich man now ..
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: If I had as many compaints and crankiness as Interlibber, I think I would have figured out that SL wasn't the place for me. And find some happiness elsewhere. We are not trapped in SL.
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Intlibber, how you deal with your frustations re. governance are your call, but I am telling you that my office hour is not the venue
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: amen
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: As i cannot and will not respond here.
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I think it is kinda funny, really. Here we have the cream of the anarcho-capitalist front, who are all about "let us do business no matter what!", and they are here telling another business "no! You can't do that! It's communist!!"
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: If you have something you want to discuss, then lets do so privately.
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: please, Elan, how dare you call a master of the short con a "scumbag"
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: http://foo.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2008/08/linden-lab-gove.html
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: so sad
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: jack, Harry is your subordinate
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Irony doesn't even begin to describe it.
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: he's part of your department
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: bag it int
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: resign, int
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Tawney Bian|Tawney Bian]]: Jack, ,are all the zindra migration tickets in teh same que, island requests and mainland request?
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tawney, I think they start off in the same queue, yes
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Tawney Bian|Tawney Bian]]: okay, thank you
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: Jack? Any chance of having some Zindra only issue meetings?
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Zindra Town Halls
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Yes with Cyn present!!
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Eclectic, actually I was suggesting internaly that we do that - perhaps open a Linden Zindra office
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: We need answers and fixes FAST
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Have some Zindra specific office hours
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: since she cant be bothered to answer my emails or notecards
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: we need justice
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Blondin does Zindra hours
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: i propose stay here withotu unsit of my computer, without eat if robo marx is not unbanned...im gonna start a food strike
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: we got it
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: You got it. :D
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: justice was served
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: And there are residents that can and WILL help solve problems
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tumbleweed, we get hundreds of IMs and notecards per day. It would be totally impossible to respond to them al
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, Robo got it. <.<
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: *all
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: hehe
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: hello folks
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Hahaha, a virtual hunger strike? That's awesome.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: yes
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Mex Sands|Mex Sands]]: Thows lulu some popcorn
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: i starta a hunger strike right now
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: She specifically told me to email her about a Zindra question I had, now it's far too late
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: i will not celebrate 4th july
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: next....
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: if in the independence day
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: the day of the freedom
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: there is not justice
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Then you best start off by not feeding your computer power.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:DJ Flamand|DJ Flamand]]: Justice Intlibber? funny because I think you still owe me 50000L$ for that SOS group thing that never happened.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: computers like being fed water
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: ouch !!!!
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: wow
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: lol 500k wow
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: lol
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: lofft
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: well Lulu, this is a public area so if you wish to sit here indefinitely then you can
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: ok, thank u jack
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: now now girls
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: It will get boring
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Sylva Petrov|Sylva Petrov]]: (sorry to whoever i just ran over)
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Shhhh.. don't spoil the ending.
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:TorqueDom3 Primeau|TorqueDom3 Primeau]]: Jack, it's becoming painfully clear watching how the Zindra tickets are being proccessed that what you and blondin have assured us in the meeting is not how the team is proccessing the tickets... you totally skirted my question about flexibility in size. I have and am requesting a full estate, so it doesnt effect me... but when I witness the transaction, and have the Linden tell my friend that she has to follow a policy that does NOT allow her flexibility in parcel size, it's upsetting
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: eveybody,. come back here a week forward..i will be here
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Not if they reset the sim you won't
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: lol
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Sling Trebuchet|Sling Trebuchet]]: Traffic Bot - working for the Lindens Lulu
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: maybe jack can set out a camping chair for you lulu
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Mex Sands|Mex Sands]]: camping here for no pay, thats a cool plan
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: well
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: iSIMI requests?
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: Will your avi shrink as you go along
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: that wil make my strike more comfortable
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Oh, Lulu, we'll check up on you during the week, too. (now where's my Ben & Jerry's avatar?)
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Torque, again i have no way to deal with a specific situation in my office hour. I don't have the facts and i don't know what exactly has happened or why. So I'm not avoiding it, I just can't help you in the middle of this meeting
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: Small parcel allotments are blocking full SIM requests
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: So sorry if that doesn't help but as I said, we are being flexible wherever we can be
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Ding! How true Eclectic!
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: jack , what is your favourite food?
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:TorqueDom3 Primeau|TorqueDom3 Primeau]]: No, they ARENT. that's the point. address your team.
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: So, Jack, about the remaining microparcel extortionists.. any more clue as to when you'll stop supporting them?
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: twinkies
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I think there's a lot of full sim requests out for Zindra land. Seems like it would be a piece of cake to just turn on a new sim for each one now.
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: TWINKIES! :P
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Sagana Crystal|Sagana Crystal]]: campers
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: I suggest something like Micronesia?
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Lulu, probably steak. I had a steak like a mattress in San Francisco, it was pretty amazingly good
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:DJ Flamand|DJ Flamand]]: Twinkies? you can eat particles?
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: hmm nice
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: hehe
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Maybe some of the remaining extortionists have special connections...
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: Island nation off the coast but PART of Zindra
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]] tosses Jack a Deep fried marsbar, Glasgaes finest.
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Maybe LL is adopting the US Gov policy: "They are too big to fail^H^H^H^Hban!"
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Well Robo knew IntLib and he practically runs Linden Lab so I don't think connections can help.
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: yes jack, the progress on micros has been good, but if it doesnt go all the way, the same amount of land is rendered useless
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Eclectic Smythe|Eclectic Smythe]]: See the Fatimas as example
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, I don't have an update on that, I will ask the team
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Jack, slightly off topi but non the less related. We have watched the login numbers tumble. Is this purely down to BOTS?
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: so Jack, when can we expect, if ever, a return to a free market economy for SL, really now, this socialist experiment you've been running has pretty well proven that it destroys economies....
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Sylva Petrov|Sylva Petrov]]: Remember: Never ascribe ill motive to a situation that can quite easily be explained by common error.
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Never, I hope.
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: My business has been good
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Driftwood, the concurrency number has dipped and yes it's down to the Bot policies
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: At least "free market" in the sense of "anything goes, including criminal enterprise". >.>
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: getting rid of half the extortion plots and leaving primlands in place keeps the same amount of land useless for anything
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: business is GREAT!
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: Jack where is the GROWTH
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Sylva Petrov|Sylva Petrov]] approves of Botricide.
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: only party members profit under socialism
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: i grow ..
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: not in extortion plots
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: al my tier renters took more tier as well
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Top 10 parcels sorted by traffic seems pretty much the same as always
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: hmm ihave a serious questins...wich is the inflation percentage per month of the sl economy?
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Lavender Siamendes|Lavender Siamendes]]: Talarus surely you are not advocating criminal enterprise
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Lavender Siamendes|Lavender Siamendes]] >> Talarus sÃ»rement vous ne plaide pas pour l'entreprise criminelle
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: whomever just dropped all those notecards to me, please wait until the end
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: If you read what I said, then you wouldn't have to ask that question. :)
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Sylva Petrov|Sylva Petrov]]: Cream rises to the top...course other colloids float too...
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah Lulu, good questions. When are we getting our economic statistics back?
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: yes only socialist tyrants make economic stats into state secrets
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: high fibre diet?
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Lavender Siamendes|Lavender Siamendes]]: a simple yes or no would have sufficed Mr sarcasmo
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Lavender Siamendes|Lavender Siamendes]] >> un simple oui ou non, aurait suffi M. sarcasmo
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: there is growth Intlibber but as we're also clamping down on Bots used for traffic gaming, one is more than cancelling out the other
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I wasn't being sarcastic <.<
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: why the lindex is a manipulated market...i bought a million lindenx two years ago, to bet an uptrend but the lindex is like the yuan
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: you need a big yellow clamp Jack
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: dont fluctuate
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Lulu, the L$ is managed to a level so there isn't inflation there as such, but Land prices fluctuate more and there we're seeing it dip a little with the migration to Zindra underway
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: *doh*
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Sylva Petrov|Sylva Petrov]]: I've traded lindens to dollars at 260 exactly for nearly a year straight...
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: a dip?
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Sylva Petrov|Sylva Petrov]]: pretty stable
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: dip, I would call it falling off a cliff
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Just a smidge, what's your average land price now Jack?
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: in Soviet Russia, exchanges rate YOU
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Sagana Crystal|Sagana Crystal]]: so, the reduced user stats reflect baned bots?
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Isn't it a bit early to be attibuting the land price drop to Zindra migration?
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: Poland ?
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Let me check yesterdays closing price average, hang on
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: 2,7?
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: polls
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: i accept numbers
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Sling Trebuchet|Sling Trebuchet]]: 27
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: so Jack, I didnt know that bots were such big consumers in the land market, are you blaming bots for the depression in land sales?
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I'm 5.6 at 5.9
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: (Ciaran, not necessarily: market could be discounting that in advance... but it could get worse later, when real dumping starts)
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: come on 100 lindens for the winner
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Sylva Petrov|Sylva Petrov]]: As i said, i can only go by what i see. I get exactly 1 dollar for 260 lindens every single day for a year. I'd call that a stable currency.
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Land BodyGuard|Land BodyGuard]] HUD Ultra 2.4a (WEAR-ME!): System ready. (secondlife://Titian/135/223/351/)
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Then you're getting ripped off Sylva. iot's L$259/US$1
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Mainland price per meter for successful transactions (excluding estate sales and Linden sales) is L$5.5 per meter
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:TorqueDom3 Primeau|TorqueDom3 Primeau]]: of course, this average also reflects the idiots that set there 4k parcels for sale at 2 million L
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: It was L$4.8 the day before
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: lol
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: or 16's at 9999?
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: What's the time frame on that Jack? Is it all the land that sold yesterday or something?
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: But the bottom prices right now for a 512 is 2.1
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Sylva Petrov|Sylva Petrov]]: still, it's stable, i'm just impatient
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: and for 23k
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: 32k is 2,9
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Intlibber, no i was talking about concurrency, not sales, as being related to Bots
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: gee, a year ago the price was 8-12 L per sqm
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: :( and a year before that 20/sqm
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: These are sale prices Jack right?
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: so I have failed to see that a drop to 5.5 L$ per sqm is an improvement over 8-12
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dytska, that's the For Sale price, not the prices actually transacted
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Wait, what?
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: so Jack thats all land for sale, not the land thats actually selling?
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Sylva Petrov|Sylva Petrov]] checks for falling sky
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: hehehe, yeah, that L$2.1/m2 might be overvalued: it hasn't sold yet. :p
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, all sales on Mainland that happened yesterday
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: It is
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: yesterday, 2.0 for a time.
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Let's see, didn't I predict L$1/sqm before the end of the year? :P
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: many of that 2.1 land have a microplots next to it
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Oh right, I see now. You were talking about Dytska's 2.1 as being land "for sale" not actually sold
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: I wonder if the viewer can handle < L$1/sqm
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: gotta go, have fun folks
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Yeah
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: well, land is a ponzi scheme by itself
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: afterall is a server
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Ayesha Lytton|Ayesha Lytton]]: IMO there is simply too much land of all kinds available right now...so unless supply goes down or demand goes up, prices will remain low
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: Jack, what was the average for all sales of parcels of 16sqm?
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: I'm sure once someone has stolen someone elses microparcel, their own land price goes up thanks tot he theft
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Raise prices on estate sims then Ayesha? That would reduce land supply
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: You have a very flexible definition of "Ponzi scheme", Lulu. :D
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: and is the only land u can pay 200% in taxover the price
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: lol
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Drongle, i don't have that number immediately to hand
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: But it has been falling every week for a long time now
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: I thought you might not :-)
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: ponzi scheme is sell anything will have no posibility to growth in value in the next 100 years
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: that is my flexible definit9ion of ponzi
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Lulu: It's really not
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Mex Sands|Mex Sands]]: lots of 16's for sale > Time Dalglish > 333
*Hsval > 333
*T 333
*Krt > 350
*M> 350
*P00
*N 199
*G Luke Termagant > 9900
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Sagana Crystal|Sagana Crystal]]: lasnd is virtually free in osgrid
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: i know
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: flexible definitions are so handy
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: but im creative
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Ayesha Lytton|Ayesha Lytton]]: Or close some Mainland. Maybe remove some empty sims and replace with water...that would also bring up the value of the surrounding land
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: and can call how i want
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Sylva Petrov|Sylva Petrov]]: and you get what you pay for...
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: primlands 1495
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: and i will gain the same in this than with bernard madoff
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: Gold COins 9900
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: mabye im wrong, but what is sure
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Ayesha, there are no empty mainland sims. All 100% owned
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: is the tier is the most communits
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: tax arond the globe
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Sagana Crystal|Sagana Crystal]]: speaks to the land prices here
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: around*
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Ayesha Lytton|Ayesha Lytton]]: I think $1000 and 295 enough is more than enough in costs for an estate!
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yes, I pay a monthly server rental fee to my communist colo as well.
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: ..and pay my communist electric bill, phone bill, etc.
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Darn commies are everywhere! <.<
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: no communist gas bill?
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: you are a good citizen, Tal
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Constanza Amsterdam|Constanza Amsterdam]]: i think the land prices dropping is a direct result to the adult content changes and people not knowing for over 3 months what is going to happen. My guess is when everything is in place, landprices will go up to and people will be buying land again.
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: well, in your electric bill
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Well Ayesha, so how are you going to reduce land supply? Force mainland residents out of their homes?
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: Lulu's point is that only a communist country would have a tax thats higher than the resale price
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: u dont apy 200% tax over the real price
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: There are no taxes in SL, only expenses.
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: It's a service you pay for.
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: LOL
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: hehe... the resale price of a webpage
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: doesn't remember taxes in comunist countries
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: potato potahto
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Ayesha Lytton|Ayesha Lytton]]: perhps turn abandoned Gov Linden land into parks or lakes
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Sagana Crystal|Sagana Crystal]]: i forsee further drop in user stats, land prices, et al.
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:TorqueDom3 Primeau|TorqueDom3 Primeau]]: see, maybe I'm too naive. to buy a private estate is 1000$ for 65532. 1000$ = 26000L. that's about 4L per sqm. what makes anyone think they will see 10L per sqm for mainland ever again?
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: if i buy at 1 linden and i pay a monthly tax of 2 linden in all the yar...then ther eis not posibility for business
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Ayesha i think that wa mentioned as an option by Jack a few weeks ago
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: is a ponzi schme
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Call it whatever you want; it won't change reality. :)
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: whose going to pay for that Ayesha? If they can afford all these open spaces and double prim plots I'd rather they dropped my tier
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ayesha.. more parks and lakes would be good
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: talarus., u can cut the flowers, but u cant cut the spring
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: communal meeting areas.... not communist tho
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: FREEDOM FOR ROBO
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: But there is a practical limit to how much un-owned land we can support
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: FREEDOM FOR ROBO
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Jack i know someone that sells trees cheap *winks
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:TorqueDom3 Primeau|TorqueDom3 Primeau]]: I can see the day coming when more and more mainland will be "grandfathered" as protected land to push private estate sales.
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Sylva Petrov|Sylva Petrov]]: robo?
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: hes free
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:DAD Bingyi|DAD Bingyi]]: Yeah, we want freedom for ROBO
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Sagana Crystal|Sagana Crystal]]: as if
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Sylva Petrov|Sylva Petrov]]: if you mean bots, they're now free to do anything they like - elsewhere
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: hahahaha
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Laica Forcella|Laica Forcella]]: who the fuck is ROBO
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: robo is a dream
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: ROBO Marx
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: in the morning
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Laica Forcella|Laica Forcella]]: lol
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Derrek Darkfold|Derrek Darkfold]]: I just wanna say THAT I AM NOT AGREE WITH ALL THAT NEW ADULT RULES!!!
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: was falsely banned on false charges by thes Arbor communists
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: a communist
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: OK Jack, totally new topic. When are you guys going to get on top of re-auctioning abandoned land? It takes months and should be an automatic job that requires no time at all
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: the greates capitalista
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Jack, one question well, two I guess. Who is absolute head of the land team, ie, Zindra move, including announcements? And the other is who will be making sure private estates flag their sims appropriately? They are already going to be getting, as I understand it, "about 60 days" to do so, when the rest of the people moving are tagged and limited when they move? and lastly, how can we be sure they DO flag appropriatley since there are places STILL selling Sex beds in PG?
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: this is thebest theater ive been to in awhile
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: No, Bernie Madoff is the greatest capitalista. :D
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, agreed and we are doing some work to help us automate it (though we have to be very careful as people often abandon land accidentally)
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Sagana Crystal|Sagana Crystal]]: what a great idea, pg sex beds
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Sylva Petrov|Sylva Petrov]]: wait...they can't be capitalists AND communists AND fascists at the same time, they'd explode
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:IntLibber Brautigan|IntLibber Brautigan]]: Jack, when can the shareholders of ROBO Marx Ltd, expect to have their money that LL stole returned to them?
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: bernie maddof applied a strike-split converstion strategy...and was mathematically imposible to give those returns...so the problems was not bernaf maddof...was the SEC
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: wth do you do on a pg sexbed sit on the edges and look at one another?
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:TorqueDom3 Primeau|TorqueDom3 Primeau]]: Tumble. the answer blondin gave was they WONT police it. they will only respond to AR complaints on a case by case basis
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Never, I would expect. :D
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Sagana Crystal|Sagana Crystal]]: lol
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Don't invest in extortionistic schemers
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jack, how can I get someone to reactivate ROBO's account and give it to me so I can steal all his land and customers?
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yes, the SEC should be the ones with a 150-year prison sentence. <.<
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: yes
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: if a thief stole
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tumbleweed, there is no 'one person in charge', but I own the Land part and am involved on the Customer Relations side
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: in front of a policeman
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: then is the policeman the guilty
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: ROBO the martyr
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Okay guys, I have to scram
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: robo is more martyr than jesuchist
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: bye jack
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Lulu Dereham|Lulu Dereham]]: liberate him on 4th july
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:DJ Flamand|DJ Flamand]]: Intlibber, again your company owes me 50000L$, when am I getting that back?
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Sylva Petrov|Sylva Petrov]]: bye Jack :-)
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: We definitely can't hold someone accountable for their own failings; we need to blame someone else. >.>
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Cheers Jack
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: You said you werent in charge of the announcements though
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: thank you Jack
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: take care jac
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Lulu: Agreed! ROBO and Jesus Christ are like peas in a pod
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Sagana Crystal|Sagana Crystal]]: l8r
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: bye Jack, thanks.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Tawney Bian|Tawney Bian]]: wish you well Jack, thanks for holding office hours this week :)
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Thank you all for coming along, have a great weekend!
*
</div></div>

<div id='box' style='text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em;'>
Generated by [http://kuraiko.zeitenwerk.de/wikify.php SL Chatlog Wikify]
</div>

[[Category:Jack Linden Office Hours]]

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-05-28

2009-05-28T19:37:07Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: New page: <div id='box'> == List of Attendees == <div style='padding: 0.5em'> *Techwolf Lupindo *Qie Niangao *Jack Linden *[[User:...

<div id='box'>
== List of Attendees ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[[User:Techwolf Lupindo|Techwolf Lupindo]]
*[[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]
*[[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]
*[[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]
*[[User:Evil Titler|Evil Titler]]
*[[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]
*[[User:Isobel Belfire|Isobel Belfire]]
*[[User:Arton Dowren|Arton Dowren]]
*[[User:Amras Martynov|Amras Martynov]]
*[[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]
*[[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]
*[[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]
*[[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]
*[[User:Adorabella Felisimo|Adorabella Felisimo]]
*[[User:Ash Rose|Ash Rose]]
*[[User:Sling Trebuchet|Sling Trebuchet]]
*[[User:Alsea DeSantis|Alsea DeSantis]]
*[[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]
*[[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]
*[[User:Myspace Hax|Myspace Hax]]
*[[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]
*[[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]
*[[User:Kiwidude Klinger|Kiwidude Klinger]]
*[[User:Stephan Mrigesh|Stephan Mrigesh]]
*[[User:Kyrion Yalin|Kyrion Yalin]]
*[[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]
*[[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]
*[[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]
*[[User:Kasim Saeed|Kasim Saeed]]
*[[User:Smoke Wijaya|Smoke Wijaya]]
*[[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]
*[[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]
*[[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]
*[[User:Civlet Moody|Civlet Moody]]
*[[User:Fenix Burner|Fenix Burner]]
*[[User:Rin Tae|Rin Tae]]
*[[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]
*[[User:Scylla Rhiadra|Scylla Rhiadra]]
*[[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]
*[[User:Nova Fhang|Nova Fhang]]
*[[User:Shadow Pidgeon|Shadow Pidgeon]]
*[[User:Opensource Obscure|Opensource Obscure]]
*[[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]
*[[User:Wynochee LeShelle|Wynochee LeShelle]]
*[[User:Laica Forcella|Laica Forcella]]
*[[User:Tray Dyrssen|Tray Dyrssen]]
*[[User:slowly Bury|slowly Bury]]
*[[User:Professor Spark|Professor Spark]]
*[[User:Eva Moyer|Eva Moyer]]
*[[User:Willow Halfpint|Willow Halfpint]]
*[[User:Lodi McMillan|Lodi McMillan]]
*[[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]
*[[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]
*[[User:Lisabeth Nikolaidis|Lisabeth Nikolaidis]]
*[[User:Ledoof Constantineau|Ledoof Constantineau]]
*[[User:Jean Swashbuckler|Jean Swashbuckler]]
</div></div>

<div id='box'>
== Transcript ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Techwolf Lupindo|Techwolf Lupindo]]: Jack is comming in though tthe back door. :-)
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Greetings, Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hey folks
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: Hi Jack... welcome to the Pleasuredome *grins*
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Evil Titler|Evil Titler]] v2 whispers: Eva Moyer has removed the Evil Titler.
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Hi Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Techwolf Lupindo|Techwolf Lupindo]]: Hi jack.
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Isobel Belfire|Isobel Belfire]]: Hiya Jack! : )
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Arton Dowren|Arton Dowren]]: hello jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Amras Martynov|Amras Martynov]]: heya Jack!
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: hi jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: Hey Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Hi Jack.
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: hi Jack *gets serious
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Adorabella Felisimo|Adorabella Felisimo]]: hello Jack
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Ash Rose|Ash Rose]]: good morning jack
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Sling Trebuchet|Sling Trebuchet]]: jlmenu
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: region is set to allow 65 people i think, so we've still got room
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Alsea DeSantis|Alsea DeSantis]]: hello Jack
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: :)
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jenshae, thing is if you're advertising a F|_|CK1NG store, then no-one will know how to search for it. So it's pointless
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Sling Trebuchet|Sling Trebuchet]]: jlnadu
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Nice to meet you, Jack
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Myspace Hax|Myspace Hax]]: whew talk about some rezzin issues
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hey renzo
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: Hello Jack
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Hi there Jack
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Kiwidude Klinger|Kiwidude Klinger]]: Hi Jack
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: now last week there was a cat around here somewhere, mustn't trample it again this week
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Wheres our resident dragons today :(
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Right next to you.
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: to your left jack
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: Can't always start using euphemisms Elanthius, "hot-and-heavy" store.
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Stephan Mrigesh|Stephan Mrigesh]]: Here Kitty Kitty!
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Kyrion Yalin|Kyrion Yalin]]: hi
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: aha! hi kitty
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Isobel Belfire|Isobel Belfire]]: lol
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: Look out jack, Willow there has a sword!
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jenshae, but if I want a sex shop I'm going to search for sex not "hot and heavy" or some crap
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Stephan Mrigesh|Stephan Mrigesh]]: Looking Good as Alwyas Jack!
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Stephan Mrigesh|Stephan Mrigesh]]: lol
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: So your "hot and heavy" shop will be constantly empty
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Stephan Mrigesh|Stephan Mrigesh]]: -)
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: Taken your deep breathe and stretched your fingers yet Jack?
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Sling Trebuchet|Sling Trebuchet]] casts an eye over Jacks bondage trousers
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Can we begin with questions, Jack?
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: Lets begin, we only have an hour! ^^
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: How many votes on the Jira do you need before you start to fix the flaws of the ACF, Jack ?
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: except for people looking for hot and heavy items
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: Like ranges
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: fire away! (said he cautiously)
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Driftwood: Like a volcano?
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: those trousers will get flagged D:
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: Elanthius by that point you would know there is no words for sex so you would find out the alternative of finding what you do want.
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Stephan Mrigesh|Stephan Mrigesh]]: Question: Jack, why are the offendor's of the land cutting policy still in operation, and what is keeping LL from not Perma Banning these Avatar's?
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jenshae, if you're Adult verified you can search for the word sex
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack: (Sorry for the long question.) -- Two weeks ago you told me that Linden Lab has no plans to merge the teen and adult grids. We believe that might be one of the many reasons Linden Lab wishes to implement the adult content changes. After our meeting with you, we uncovered an interview (audio) with Philip Linden some time ago where he stated that he saw a merging of the grids as an eventual and likely move by Linden Lab. I don't think you intended to mislead anyone, but I do question whether or not you have all the facts. My question is: Would you say that you are frequently told about upcoming changes only when they are made public? In other words, does Linden Lab management keep information from its employees who are on the front lines dealing with its customers? (Here is a link to the interview with Jack: http://www.metanomics.net/show/archive011909/)
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yikes
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: How can you enforce a filter on adult words? With an almost limitless set of variables on them such as p0rn and f*ck.ANSWER:How can you prove that the person submitting identity information is the owner of it; since you can't actually see them?ANSWER:Do you agree that teenagers will use their parents' identities to gain access to this content?ANSWER:Do you agree that sex offenders will be using the identities of innocent people?ANSWER:
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: never weighed a volcano...but one would think that against mountains they are comparatively light...needs a closer look
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: So much for *land* issues
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Stephen, do you mean actual cutting or holding/selling lots of small parcels?
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: Is it right in good conscience to disrupt those peoples' lives when the police make enquiries? Possibly people that have never even heard of Second Life?ANSWER:Would not a simple system of flagging content as adult and asking the user, "This is adult content. Do you wish to be proceed?" be better?ANSWER:Is it not better to put the onus on the teens and their parents? Encourage responsible parenting?ANSWER:Just how innocent are these minds you seek to protect if they are there in the first place and willing to lie about their age and possibly steal their parents' identity?ANSWER:
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: When you implement your system. Will it not create complacent adult users? Since they will believe that surely anyone in an adult simulation must be an adult, right?ANSWER:Do you agree that Linden Labs or the third party company would become a veritable gold mine of personal information for hackers and identity thieves to target?ANSWER:Can you candidly admit now that you are bending to laws that have been created by someone with no understanding of the Internet and parenting; that your company is covering itself for legal and prosecution contingencies?ANSWER:
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Myspace Hax|Myspace Hax]]: Whoa on the questions, just one man here, take turns
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: whoa, let me read back here
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: Jack. Have you decided whether we can purchase extra land as part of the swap? If so, have you decided on pricing yet and how much will it be per sq m?
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Stephan Mrigesh|Stephan Mrigesh]]: The previous Offendor's are still in operation making it seem as though LL can do nothing to stop them.
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Good one, couldbe
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Kasim Saeed|Kasim Saeed]]: what kind of a swap is it going to be? straight off trade. have to rebuilt???
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Stephan Mrigesh|Stephan Mrigesh]]: Jack, would it be of any help to LL to gather a list of all the 16 sq M. Cut's that are obviously only geared at rates for profit, and have no legitimate advertising pourpose?
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Kasim, you get land in Pornutopia AND you keep your regular mainland
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Kasim Saeed|Kasim Saeed]]: and pay tier on both?
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Sure, but I mean if you don't want to pay tier you can ditch one of them.
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Kasim Saeed|Kasim Saeed]]: private residence with poseballs fall under adult also.. they have to move?
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: okay, Xantarius, I'm well aware of that interview but that doesn't make it fact. Senior staff often give interviews and talk about long term ideas and again that doesn't mean they will happen. I can tell you without question that merging the TG was no part of the thinking behind this change
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: hey Gangrel ^^
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Stephan Mrigesh|Stephan Mrigesh]]: What can we do to help you stop these Avatar's from conning the Noobs?
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Also, I rent tier at very favourable rates
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Smoke Wijaya|Smoke Wijaya]]: Well, stay on the mainland then and place on the ursula one a teleporter. refuse to relocate, refuse to comply....subvert the implementation, don't make it easy for LL!
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: hi Aire
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: Jack: You mentioned sim owners being given a chance to swap to an island as part of the move rather than a swap to mainland. Is this going to happen and what incentives will there be to do this?
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: a break from the spammy protesters I have a softball for you soft, what is the progress on the adfarm/extortionist cleanup on the mainland
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: err jack
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack: Merging the teen grid was not part of the "thinking behind this change"... Are you also saying that it will not happen, or just that it's not behind this change?
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: To be clear again, we have no plans to merge grids at this time. We've never ruled it out long term, because we can't know how things will develop over time, but right now we have no intentions to do that
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Thanks, Jack
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack: Will furries be banned from PG and/or mature areas?
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Stephan Mrigesh|Stephan Mrigesh]]: Jack, was there any effort made to create an application for the use of micro parcel's specifically intended for advertising, and if not, why not?
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: jack ... microplots ... not just holding and selling, but still acquiring....
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Yes furries are banned from everywhere exxcept Lusk
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Kiwidude Klinger|Kiwidude Klinger]]: I think we all can see that this move would certainly make a merger of the grids easier to execute.
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Smoke Wijaya|Smoke Wijaya]]: Well, Philip has said the merger was in the pipeline for someday, not an if, but a when.
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: X(
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: My furry alt was banned just yesterday
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Xantarius, if they do then I'm out L$1000
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: omg
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Jenshae, you've dropped quite a long list of questions in there, I'm really not going to be able to address all of those in this office hours
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: They're not banned from my place Ciaran.. I just ban kids and the chronically stupid
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Civlet Moody|Civlet Moody]]: it also maked differential tier pricing a lot easier after the segregation, too *wink*
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Couldbe, so everyone then :)
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Adorabella Felisimo|Adorabella Felisimo]]: when will we be allowed to go to ursula and how ong after that will we be allowed to submit our request to move?
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Wow, that is a lot of L$
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: Hahaha.
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Maybe we can just filter it down to one, that is about customer relations or land (rather than the policy itself)?
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: pretty much Gordon :)
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Fenix Burner|Fenix Burner]]: Hello there i am new here in second life. How can i change my outfit and look so awsom like you all
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: Welcome to answer them in a notecard that I will distribute later ;)
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Have you ticked the mature content box?
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Lol Fenix, that's not the place for that
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Wrong window!
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: Can give them to you as one now.
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: It's a policy violation to bet I know but I promised the donation to RFL if they banned all furries from PG, I'm pretty sure I won't have to pay out on that
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Kiwidude Klinger|Kiwidude Klinger]] chuckles at Fenix as he sees his rez date
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Fenix Burner|Fenix Burner]]: I´m new i don´t know where to go to get an answer
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Adorabella (what a great name!), we hope to open it up very soon. the continent will have a new name, and the city there too. the build work is due to end in the next few days
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]] shudders
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Jack, since these meetings may contain adult content and situations is the land they are held on going to be changed from mature to adult?
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: seems only fair :)
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Fenix, if you take a look at the support portal there are articles in the knowledgebase about that
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: So were typcasting anyone with a bit of imagination and wanting to be anything but human on sl as somthing not for pg land... yeehaaa.
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Rin Tae|Rin Tae]] thinks of bay city and shudders
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: www.secondlife.com/support
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Adorabella Felisimo|Adorabella Felisimo]]: Thanks Jack, after it is opened how long before we can request our move?
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: yay@uni
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Fenix Burner|Fenix Burner]]: thank you for help -.-
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Furries aren't banned from anywhere, geesh, come on guys
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Kasim Saeed|Kasim Saeed]]: Where are the details of the move posted?
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Are you sure Ciaran?
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Isobel Belfire|Isobel Belfire]]: where can we see a list of the "words flagged as adult content"? Or is that super secret?
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Ciaran, by LL at least
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Except for Elan's alt
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: im not saying LL sanctioned it but esate owners/parcel owners are going to go on a power trip.
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Gordon, it's funny you ask that - I was talking to someone about that the other day. happily, unless some drastic career change happens, i'm not planning on selling adult content or services here so I should be fine to stay as M
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Why can't you make a flag to mark parcels as adult only instead of deporting people forcefully to an adult ghetto, when it's clearly technically possible for you ?
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: http://www.slapt.me/wiki/index.php/Adult_Content_Keywords
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: There is only an unofficial user-generated list of keywords: http://www.slapt.me/wiki/index.php/Adult_Content_Keywords
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Isobel Belfire|Isobel Belfire]]: kk, ty
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Jack, I asked that too be funny so it works out well
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: I came here late....are gay, lesbian, bixexual, transgender sims going to be considered adult content?
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: DEPORTATION is the RIGHT word!
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Adorabella, probably a week or two. as soon as we can as we want to understand the numbers
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Myspace Hax|Myspace Hax]]: Jack, nice to meet you, good luck with the questions!
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: only if the content offered is considered adult Gangrel, we no need to worry!! (ha.. ha...)
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Isobel, i think the definitions are due for an upcoming blog post. Blondin would know more
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: whew
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: lol
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: anyone know if the sim is full yet btw? yesterday Blondin's was full before the meeting even started
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: ok are we done now?
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: 49 here last I checked
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Smoke Wijaya|Smoke Wijaya]]: 59 here
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: Jack, will private islands have to be rated?
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: this sign is getting heavy
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: I would like the guarantee and the word if you may from LL that the GLBT community will not be bothered because i dont believe it
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Scylla Rhiadra|Scylla Rhiadra]]: Jack, do the June 1 2007 prohobitions on rape and extreme sexual violence apply to Ursula?
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Yes private islands have to be rated, cheap adult sims on sale now
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: and more minorities
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: yes they have to fireshorse
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Renzo, marking parcels as adult doesn't solve the problem, the content would still be visible to cameras etc, and mixed into PG areas where people may not wish to see it
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: its not just the GLBT community
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: yeah what Airethilien said
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Do you realize than with the switch of "adult content" from extrmee stuff to every business sex-related, the proportions of places concerned rised from 2-4 % to 20-30% ?
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Smoke Wijaya|Smoke Wijaya]]: Jack, make a PG continent.....
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Smoke Wijaya|Smoke Wijaya]]: ...but I am sure that has been said often
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Nova Fhang|Nova Fhang]]: Aside from the potentially deplorable effect this may have on the residents, has anyone done a feasability of the impact this will have on SL as a business?
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Firehorse, if the private island is commercialising adult content or services, then we will expect them to flag it as such
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: as cameras can be used across sims
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: jack, i don't get that, as regions who border eachother are visible too... sisn't that the same?
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Smoke is right, then make a PG continent for them
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: Ursula isnt gonna be big enuff to fit the whole grid!
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: well in that case, doesn't that mean that these changes are a lot more major than most sim owners have been led to understand?
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Arton Dowren|Arton Dowren]]: PG continent would be way easier for everyone
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Rape is prohibited? They're doing a pretty poor job of enforcing that
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: People will still be abble to cam our adult activities in our private house
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: I've talked to sim owners who have said they don't have to worry because it's only mainland
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Scylla Rhiadra|Scylla Rhiadra]]: That's kind of the point, Elan
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: But thats not commercial activity
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: @Renzo
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Zappa
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: it is if you get a group of people to pay to watch
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]] was thinking of opening a rape shop
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Kiwidude Klinger|Kiwidude Klinger]]: I second Nova's question: Has a feasability study been done to anticipate the effects of the AC filtering? If so, are the results published and where can we see them?
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: I agree, Firehorse, I don't think that the sim owners have much of a clue that this is going to impact them much at all. The communication from Linden Lab to the residents, in general, has been lacking. I say this because there are far too many people who have no idea that this is even happening, let alone that it will affect them.
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: <blinks
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Scylla Rhiadra|Scylla Rhiadra]]: It's been done, Elan
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: private sims that get flagged will be unreachable to non-ageverified accounts if i understood correctly
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Elan its called Microsoft
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: And you think people will stop camming because it's not commercial, Uni ?
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Nova, we've done a lot of work to map out what we believe the impact will be. Obviously, there is only so much you can do with something as unusual as this, but yeah - we've put a lot of thought into it
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: It surprises me that Stroke Serpentine has never weighed in on this, he's pretty much the high baron of sex products
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Non account verified is the issue
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: And that would be an invasion of privacy...
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Shadow Pidgeon|Shadow Pidgeon]]: can we lay off the thought crime and get to the nuts and bolts
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]] worries about Elan's Supreme Flock of Rapists, loose on the grid.
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Gordon Stroker has been calling for better flagging of adult land for years
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: LL should stay out of the bedroom of residents in an adult game.
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Opensource Obscure|Opensource Obscure]]: gordon: maybe Stroke Serpentine likes this idea.
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Rin Tae|Rin Tae]]: oh well.. announcing it on the log in page like it was done once long time ago would have helepd a lot.. I have just talked with soemone in IMs who had no idea this all was happening
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Kasim Saeed|Kasim Saeed]]: This is a glorified witch hunt.. there is no way that adult content is going to be removed from the mainland.
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Sling Trebuchet|Sling Trebuchet]]: Grapists - There would be a bunch of them
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Nova Fhang|Nova Fhang]]: So I take it the data suggeste that is will not be as big a disaster as it seem?
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Kiwidude, I don't know if the team is planning on pushing more data out. As far as my area is concerned, the land migration, we analysed search results and surveyed the Mainland heavily to understand how many parcels would be affected
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Stephan Mrigesh|Stephan Mrigesh]]: Jack, are you able, or were you able to answer any of my questions?
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: we do NOT want to be deported!
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Kasim Saeed|Kasim Saeed]]: Jack, what is your estimate of how many parcels with be affected
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Airethillian, we are staying out of the bedroom, it's more the showroom we're concerned with
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Oooh snappy Jack, good soundbite
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: back from afk
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: how did you analyse when we've been told the terms aren't set in stone yet?
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: same questions as last week.
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Rin Tae|Rin Tae]]: is it possible to see the search results of the land survay taht was mentioned? And is it possible to see under what kind of criteria those places have been chosen to make up the given ammount of places to be moved?
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: Erotic art will be "ADULT" - can someone tell me who defines erotic?
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Ciaran, not surprising that he'd be for this then since he has his own set of private sims he isn't heavily effected
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Can we talk about land stuff instead of this crap? What's going on with the traffic bot policy? No visible action as far as anyone can tell so far
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: when is the bedroom becoming a showroom ina virtual world, Jack?
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Arton Dowren|Arton Dowren]]: jack considering the lines and definitions of adult, mature and all content like that is so blurry and and undefined why are you causing chaos and confusing in creating an adult area, specifically when all content that will have to be moved there outnumbers the number of PG places in sl, it would be easier on everyone just to make a pg continent, specially considering those who stay in pg areas wont accidentally have mature neibhors they might see
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Stephan, sorry i may have missed your question, so much text flying by!
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Smoke Wijaya|Smoke Wijaya]]: and why you ay then that you rely on AR system for identifying adult content that is being promoted publicly/in search, when you just state that you did survey it heavily by yourselves and havea clear understanding of the scope??
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: even if he rates as adult he'll still do good business and has an established base
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack: We know that Linden Lab will define "erotic", but are you concerned with the way this may impact the art community?
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Smoke Wijaya|Smoke Wijaya]]: *say then
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: I don't know if he's for this Gordon, but he has been in favour of better flagging of adult content, they don't have to mean exactly the same thing
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Indeed until you find a way to prevent camming, every bedroom is a showroom
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Stephan Mrigesh|Stephan Mrigesh]]: Understood, thanks Jack.
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Kasim, in terms of the Mainland it was around 4%
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: Jack: Pricing for extra land and island swaps for mainland sim owners????
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Smoke Wijaya|Smoke Wijaya]]: how you know if you depend on AR system to identify the content and conduct Jack?
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: SL in GENERAL is a SHOWROOM that is why its an ADULT service
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Kasim Saeed|Kasim Saeed]]: Thats is crazy!!
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Which is lots of land, and we know it'll be a big task to relocate people
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: How will Linden Labs stop people using huds or spawning poses and items in places that allow object creation?
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Renzo, not entirely true, you can have a bedroom that's not cammable but it requires buying an entire island and setting it to no entry
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: relocate... i bet thats what the nazi's called it too
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jenshae, according to Blondin yesterday, they won't
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Shadow Pidgeon|Shadow Pidgeon]]: just think of how much easier this will make it for reporters looking for a juicy story..... all the depravity and smut in 1 location
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: I can't afford that, Gordon, and I want privacy
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, as i said in the post to begin with we're letting people know about the blog post and explaining that they will need to comply.
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Jack do you think that a huge Glut on Homesteads for a a month and the reinstallation of homesteads..then a ticking time bomb for a year added to the increased inequality of more grandfathered tiers is an awesome way to improve stability?
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: but if they are AR'd, they will have to move.
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Opensource Obscure|Opensource Obscure]]: so much for Godwin's Law.
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: SEGRATION
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: indeed Gangrel
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Homesteads are about to become popular again, there's your cheap private adult sim
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Once they have had a reasonable time to do that, we'll begin to take action where there has been no change
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jack, so you're really still in the explaining phase of the whole thing? Any sense, when, like, the biggest bot users will stop?
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: SEGREGATION
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Opensource - I think Cole's Law applies, too.
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Amras Martynov|Amras Martynov]]: http://catb.org/jargon/html/Z/Zero-One-Infinity-Rule.html
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: Sofar I have not heard anything substanital of LL's that is convincing me the SL minorities will be protected
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Elanthius, et, al.... how would you notify the residents if you were LL if the blog isn't working
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Kiwidude Klinger|Kiwidude Klinger]]: So I take it that if I ensure all bedroom behaviour is kept in locked parcels my g-rated public area, and hence my entire sim, should be rated G
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Looking at this crowd I'd say the blog is working great.
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: LOL
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: heh
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: and lets not forget this is't JUST about sex
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Excellent question, Kiwidude. If the area is locked off, and it's your private area, the rating should mean nothing to Linden Lab.
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Driftwood, we were very careful in making that change and we don't think it will introduce any new issues.
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: yes violence also.
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Rin Tae|Rin Tae]]: it is mostly, because we spread the word.. not really the blog .....
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Smoke Wijaya|Smoke Wijaya]]: This crowd is not because of the blog, buit because of users organising
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Well Openspace price rise Gordon they emailed us. VAT they emailed us too, XStreet they emailed us...there's a pattern forming here ;)
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: The notification for traffic abuse? Notify with suspensions, might work.
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: LL have ignored a petition signed by over 4000 residents
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Why don't you simply make age-verification mandatory for ALL USERS, as SL is a 18+ only service... That would be real kids protection
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: True Renzo
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: every shop selling "virtual weed", every club with bongs is now "adult"
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Kiwidude Klinger|Kiwidude Klinger]]: Thank you Xantarius, that is my understanding too
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: And all this relocating would become useless
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: Age verification is NOT going to keep kids out
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: I agree Renzo
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: it is useless
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Isobel Belfire|Isobel Belfire]]: "gambling" is a banned word?
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Isobel Belfire|Isobel Belfire]]: omg
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Smoke Wijaya|Smoke Wijaya]]: Refuse to age verify with Aristotle
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: yes isobel
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Jack, is a definition for"public" being crafted in regards to gatherings of residents and limited access spaces?
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Well, it would if it was an efficient one
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Age-verification will absolutely not keep kids out.
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: as careful as you were when yougave Openspace 3750 prims and charged a $75 tier?
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: gambling has been a banned word for a long time, Isobel.
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Wynochee LeShelle|Wynochee LeShelle]]: Jack, one question about the traffic/camping thing: will Lucky Chairs still be allowed?
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Civlet Moody|Civlet Moody]]: water pipes that burn tobbacco! *mumble* they're not bongs. honest! *shifty eyes*
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: jack, if you buy a homestead sim with grantfathered tier from an other resident after july 2009, will the new onwer get a grandfathered tier as well?
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Smoke Wijaya|Smoke Wijaya]]: or verify as donald duck or elvis presley
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: hail@driftwood
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Isobel Belfire|Isobel Belfire]]: weird
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: could someone get away with having a club on a sim but only allowing select people who are vouched for by existing people in?
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, i was looking around earlier today at some of the ones that I originally looked at - some have changed but most haven't. Let's give the team some time to start enforcing and see where we are in a few weeks
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Rin Tae|Rin Tae]]: especially since the aristotel age verification can be gamed by anyone .. and such a firm is not trustworthy enoguh to be given any personal data.. something that noone should be doign on the net anyways
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: Since they can't actually see each person at their PC;s they never can keep the children out of SL. Simply not possible.
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Sling Trebuchet|Sling Trebuchet]]: Right this minute, Places Search (with Mature content unchecked) shows Sex places and 70/80 bot places. Same places for weeks
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: Before you know it we'll all have to attend SL church before we can go about our business
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Btw, did you asked other company solution for age-verification to pick the best system, as aristotle's one is just a wall of smoke every kid can go through ?
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: time to start enforcing the deportation of people based on who and waht they are??
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Laica Forcella|Laica Forcella]]: a adoult sim will absolutely not keep kids out to
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: I know a water pipe and I know a bong
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: LL is NOT denying CHILD avatars ACCESS to URSULA!
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Wynochee, we haven't banned chairs, it's the way they are used. So if the lucky chairs are piled up to drive traffic higher then that would be a problem. If they are on land that isn't listed in search, then that wouldn't be a problem
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: age verify or BUY something from LL
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Shadow Pidgeon|Shadow Pidgeon]]: the current plan is no more effective ....
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Laica Forcella|Laica Forcella]]: The kids can justuse a other passport
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Tray Dyrssen|Tray Dyrssen]]: Jack isn't that the point of Camping to bring traffic?
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: and it is ok f you use daddy's, or mommiy's paypal to pay for your account, you're verifed
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Lucky chairs are not camping, it's a promotional game !!!!
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Jack you really shouldn't have opened that can of worms on traffic. Just have a "Don't take the mick" rule
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Renzo, yes we did. This was the best option that we found. If you have other suggestions we'd love to hear them
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Stephan Mrigesh|Stephan Mrigesh]]: Actually putting more restrictions will make it that more disirable to youngsters, as we have seen with alcohol and Drgs, andwho inthe heck just griefed our chat?
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: I do NOT see why child avatars are allowed in Ursula, that smacks the very tiny wee bit of credibility straight out of it!!
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:slowly Bury|slowly Bury]]: why should we have to pay because people dont want to watch there childrens internet activity
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah I can't stand 6 months of people arguing about the definition of a chair again
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tray, mostly it seems to be, yes.
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: What Renzo said. Lucky chairs = way to promote product. Camping Chair = way to build traffic
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Jack, (again) is a definition of "public" being worked on and will people be able to get around that by just having a whole sim that needs members vouching for new members to get in and do whatever they want there?
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: jack when the whole homestead tier increased and there were so many incensed residents, one of your concerns was that Linden had a lot of TRUST to rebuild. Many people sold their homesteads and made business decsions based on the fact that Linden lab said tiers were going to 125 USD in July. Can you please tell me..how is THAT building trust?
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Tray Dyrssen|Tray Dyrssen]]: So them if I have camping on my Islands then It would be fine?
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Nova Fhang|Nova Fhang]]: Aside from that it takes a lot of real time work to move. RL time is worth something to use all and moving Adult content of what amounts to be cartoons will be an enormous undertaking for the people involved in this. How will they be compensated for their years of work put on the mainland?
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Shadow Pidgeon|Shadow Pidgeon]]: if anything it will be just as easy for a child to get there as they can anywhere else
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Ok Jack, so if Aristotle is the "best" system, no system is worth and age-verification is totally useless
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ciaran, it pretty much is that. If you are clearly gaming search, however you do it, you can expect that we will take action
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: kinda a conflict there, child avatars can be on Ursula but isn't existing policy that they can't be anywhere there's adult content so they could only be on an empty plot or a non adult plot on ursula?
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Kasim Saeed|Kasim Saeed]]: I agree with Nova
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: is the REPUBLICAN PARTY behind this?
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: lol
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: LOL
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]] claps.
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: @gangrel
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Gordon, I believe the criteria is less about public/private as whether it is commercialised etc, but again Blondin the best person to talk to about that
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Amras Martynov|Amras Martynov]]: lulwut
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: hehehe
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: hahaha
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Isobel Belfire|Isobel Belfire]]: sure sounds like it
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Shadow Pidgeon|Shadow Pidgeon]]: exactly gordon
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: child avatars: remember, Adult land *allows* adult content. it doesn't require it (any more than Mature does)
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: Jack: The land swap..
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I blame the illuminati
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Opensource Obscure|Opensource Obscure]]: wow
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: lol
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: Damn...they're the biggest consumer of porn anyway
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: Jack, this whole things is just to cover Linden Labs legally, right? "We made an effort."
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Jack, unfortunately it's impossible to talk to Blondin because there's a bunch of whiny people who flood her office hours
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: two-faced
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Kasim Saeed|Kasim Saeed]]: Jack so you are saying that if a sim is adult in nature and not "commercialized" it wont be moved?
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: indeed gangrel
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: ELanthius - yes, then and the Gnomes of Zurich
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: LINDEN LABS take action on campi but we ALL know that LL taking action on anything is pretty much luck of the draw
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Professor Spark|Professor Spark]]: Gordon, meet Kettle.
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Eva Moyer|Eva Moyer]] wonders how much LL will pay business owners who are being FORCED to move and voiding their LM's and Word of Mouth for being in the same place for years.
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Isobel Belfire|Isobel Belfire]]: good point
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Shadow Pidgeon|Shadow Pidgeon]]: if child avs are allowed on Ursula then this is ALL a farce
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: why do I feel my life force slipping away from me as I sit here???
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: I don't mean the people who are asking honest questions, I mean the ones who are just ranting at Jack
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: I don't think anyone needs to worry about one or two camping spots
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jenshae: LL is already covered legally. They ask if you are a minor when you sign up. That's all any porn site does and it's not even technically required. They could just say, "Keep out if you are under 18."
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Jenshae, the driver is to let people who haven't age verified, to control what they see. I'm not a lawyer so I wouldn't comment on the legal aspects
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Arton Dowren|Arton Dowren]]: the whole thing a gigantic farce
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: i live in zurich marrianne and am for sure taller than you :)
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Heh!
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: there are many questions to ask but ranting at Jack about how unfair it is isn't helping anyone
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Surely some attempts at verification are better than none?
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Tray Dyrssen|Tray Dyrssen]]: Very Vague answers Jack ..... Camping is allowed but don't have to much or you will be in the wrong! Why not just ban it then? Since we have limits on Private islands when is the price going to go down on the tiers? Why would I pay you to tell me what to do about traffic and other things?
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Can you provide us tools to move allthe content of an adult parcel directly on the parcel it is swapped for on Ursula ?
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: no LL wotn comment on anything that really clarifies things before they are implemented
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: my entire business is based on my LM's and knowledge of stores - I now have to erase ALL those LM? well it'll make my inventory healthier
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: lol
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: jack, if you buy a homestead sim with grantfathered tier from an other resident after july 2009, will the new onwer get a grandfathered tier as well?
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tray, banning camping chairs doesn't address the problem. people will just move to camping sofas, or camping trees or camping ferrets.
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: (ooo, good question Dennis!)
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Jack, is a revamp on how parcel, island, estate owner's get various statistics still going through or is that on hold?
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Scylla Rhiadra|Scylla Rhiadra]]: Jack, why is ALL sexual content being forced to locate along with representations of sexual violence? Is there a way to nuance this better?
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: the issue is about traffic and how people attempt to drive that up unfairly
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: You can never take away my camping ferrets!
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Tray: I completely agree. "Too much"camping. What does that even mean? It's very vague and it's not really fair for LL to not set clear rules, if they must, for people to follow.
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]] giggles
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Jack, can we quote you on that, camping faerrets :)
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: I thougth Jack answered the transfer question on the blog, let me see about it
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: this whole thing smacks of SEGREGATION....why not simplify and use age verification in the first place instead of moving businesses or a whole group?
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jack, grandfathered homesteads: Will the grandfather status transfer if someone buys one of them from another resident after July?
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: &ferrets
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Tray Dyrssen|Tray Dyrssen]]: Come on Jack...... Camping in general... I know you are smarting than that
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Isobel Belfire|Isobel Belfire]]: I'm so confused on the camping......does this mean I'm in danger of losing my sl modeling job that I've had for over a year?
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: so now SL will have nicely segregated ghettos
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: please answer elanthius and dennis :)
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: just like in rl
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Stephan Mrigesh|Stephan Mrigesh]]: Jack: there was a time that my genitillia was hidden when (automatically) when I enterd a PG SIM, was that not effective measure to prevent public ludeness?
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Tray Dyrssen|Tray Dyrssen]]: If you limit how I can get ppl to visit my islands How are ppl going to make a living?
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Xantarius, as with everything in Second Life, we have plenty of edge cases. hehe. That's one of the fun parts of a service that lets people do almost anything. But we can't design around edge cases, we'd never get a workable solution so we have to, in some cases, be subjective.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Kiwidude Klinger|Kiwidude Klinger]] agrees with Tray
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: (Ciaran may be right: the answer may have been in the blog... trying to check)
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Isobel, they've said models aren't effected as of now, I think they're planning on allowing people to flag to not increase traffic for models and bots and such although LL has been vague as always on that
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Ah no the blog answer is just about homesteads bought prior to July 1st
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: But as long as we are consistently subjective, we think we can make it fair
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: EDGE CASE SO WE JUST SEGREGATE THE EDGE CASE
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: its not in the blog... the question is still open
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Nova Fhang|Nova Fhang]]: I just know a forced move is bad fro bsiness & pulic reations
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: consistently subjective?? lol
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Isobel Belfire|Isobel Belfire]]: ty Gordon
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Tray Dyrssen|Tray Dyrssen]]: so what about Showcase.. there are places on there that no one even goes too... is that FAIR!
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Opensource Obscure|Opensource Obscure]]: please use Bold, as Caps Lock is not enough
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Kasim Saeed|Kasim Saeed]]: A forced move will seriously hurt SL
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Amras Martynov|Amras Martynov]]: Subjective and "fair" are mutually exclusive, Jack...
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Re. grandfathered Homesteads, as it stands now the grandfathering would remain after transfer as it does for full regions that are grandfathered
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: the homestead which is transfered is bought before july
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Jack, the date for this change is June 16 or something like tht right?
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Good point about the showcase....
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: O.M.G. Jack, you're killing me
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: ok..thanks
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: thanx for clearing out.
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: shoving it down our throats
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Sorry elanthius. :)
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Stephan Mrigesh|Stephan Mrigesh]]: Is my Honey Moon Castle at Risk of being shipped to this Prison Planet Isl?
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Laica Forcella|Laica Forcella]]: a lot will live SL if there is get fice to more
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: interesting. hopefully long before next July, there will be new land products such that nobody will much care about homesteads anyway.
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Jack what's the queue like for getting homesteads back?
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Laica Forcella|Laica Forcella]]: *foce
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: [11:08] Couldbe Yue: Jack: You mentioned sim owners being given a chance to swap to an island as part of the move rather than a swap to mainland. Is this going to happen and what incentives will there be to do this?
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Tray Dyrssen|Tray Dyrssen]]: LL games the system thereself...... If camping and other ways to bring traffic to a sim is gaming then showcase would be just another way of gaming!
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: Prison PLanet SL is a good name
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: the Homesteads and their tiers will be held up for review in a years time...would current full sim Grandfathering have a similar review or are they sacred cows?
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: [11:06] Couldbe Yue: Jack. Have you decided whether we can purchase extra land as part of the swap? If so, have you decided on pricing yet and how much will it be per sq m?
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: SL is going to be SO VANILLA
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: utterly boring
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Laica Forcella|Laica Forcella]]: boring
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Nova Fhang|Nova Fhang]]: Yes Lacida the exodus has already begun.
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Qie, we defintiely do want to introduce new and different products over the next year.
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: "You will move and incur the costs of that because we want to cover ourselves legally and build up a good database of identities. We like to believe that in the long term you will either adapt or leave and new customers will fill your places to gives us even larger revenues."
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: <yawns
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Tray, unless you have the ability to blackmail whichever Linden runs it I don't see how you can game it
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: STEPFORD SL
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: hial@Jen&Gangrel
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Prefab sims are coming at the land expo
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Shadow Pidgeon|Shadow Pidgeon]]: will the new ratings be CLEARLY EXPLAINED on the sign up page so that new users understand what is expected/allowed before they log in... or will it continued to be buried in the TOS that no one reads?
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: hail too
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: before you release any new products please lol
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: What will you do when the Mainland will be almost dead empty and 80% of people will be stacked in Ursula ? Close the Mainland ?
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: one more addditional question, i think i know the answer, but just to be sure: if you convert a full sim which you bought before july 2009, and convert it After july 2009 to 3 homesteads... would they be granthfathered or not?
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: SL....THE LAND WHERE EVERYONE BEHAVES
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Tray Dyrssen|Tray Dyrssen]]: It all can be gamed
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Nova Fhang|Nova Fhang]]: Besides kids are elsewhere. they think SL is full of old fogies. At least according to my friends teens. ;)
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: B O R I N G
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: Hear hear Renzo!
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: The showcase is favoratism by teh lindens but I don't think there's a clear way to influence them on it
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: No one asked me what I found offensive - if they had I might have said having all these religious organisation in places where I'm sex bed shopping is distressing
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Couldbe, yes we expect to allow those with large amounts of Mainland to instead spin out to an island if they wish to. They'd be able to keep their content that way without having to rebuild too
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Arton Dowren|Arton Dowren]]: larger revenues my ass, this happens sl is dead 67% of people will leave massive loss is proffits that will never be recovered.....ever
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: new products make me VERY nervous
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: and I do NOT WANT MY CHILD EXPOSED TO SUCH RUBBISH
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Civlet Moody|Civlet Moody]]: having purchased mature land to be free from content and editorial control isn't an edge case... that's just about everyone i know that consciously avoided PG rated land. i seriously doubt there's enough land in ursula to cover everyone that consciously avoided PG land during their purchase.
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: and the incentive jack?
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: "We firmly believe that the *majority* of customers will do as we want and that we will suffer only a minor set back with greater profits in the long term, since we are so family friendly and cleaning up our image."
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Renzo, it wil balance out, the old Mainland won't be empty.
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: People will leave in droves....from pure boredom
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: The economy will be killed by these measurements
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Besides, Showcase never ever ever includes land traders, estate owners, mainland rentals etc. You should get them to make a land category on Showcase Jack
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: I would expect a grandfathering of tier to mainland prices for at least 6 months
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: and it is slapped half dead alrdy by the recession in RL
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Arton, bullshit, there is no solid competitor to SL yet, Opengrid is getting there but is nowhere near stable or large enough for people to make the move so people have nowhere to go
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Time will tell, Jack, but Adult Industry is the biggest one in SL
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: Indeed Air
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Couldbe, i don't think we finalised it but i expect that it'll be a break on the setup fees in line with how much Mainland they own. But that is still being discussed
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Tray Dyrssen|Tray Dyrssen]]: SL has gone downhill 75% since 2007
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: not good enough i would suggest
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Opensource Obscure|Opensource Obscure]]: source, Tray?
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: people could always leave until one pops up but it's doubtful, they'd be giving it all up until then and I doubt mroe than a small pecentage will do that
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Who was the first SL billionaire, Striker, right ?
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Rin Tae|Rin Tae]]: Question: I am still very much interested in how the land survey was made to determine the ammount of adult content and how the decission was taken on what would be considered adult content so the number of 2-4% (I think) cam up. I like to see some statistics about SL so is it possible to post something more clear about this survey on the blog for example?
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Tray, right and the max concurrency is up 750% so I'm not sure how that adds up
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Renzo - you mean Ansche?
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: I SEE SL'S FUTURE.....OBSCURITY
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Renzo, Ansche Chung I think
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: tray...thats not correct..even the numbers they publish are not either lol
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Billionaire? I doubt it
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Bots Elan, it's all bots ;)
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: STRANGLED BY CENSORSHIP
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: Jack: How is LL going to guarantee me the safe havens for minorities liek the GLBT community will not be flagged and shipped in prison boxes to our new prison island?
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack: Can Linden Lab at least acknowledge that those of us who do not support the adult content changes have every right to feel that we are being ignored when we now have the JIRA ticket (http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-2727) with the highest number of votes against these changes and not a single Linden has been assigned to the ticket, even as a show of good faith?...just to say, "We're listening to you and we respect your concerns as our customers and the people who helped us build this world of ours." If the company will not acknowledge it, will you at least give us a nod? At this point, anything would be better than the way we've been treated. :-(
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Ok, Landselling and Adult Industry are the two leading ones
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: R.I.P.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: Was nice knowing you all
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Opensource Obscure|Opensource Obscure]]: not so nice actually
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Arton Dowren|Arton Dowren]]: agreed gang
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Scylla Rhiadra|Scylla Rhiadra]]: Gangrel, your "censorship" is someone else's safety
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Stay and fight for our rights, Gangrel
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: yeah Scylla?
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Laica Forcella|Laica Forcella]]: parent shall look after the kids, Not Linden
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Laica Forcella|Laica Forcella]]: *there
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Xantarius, Jesus Christ, you want Jack to sit down and tell you he feels your pain, maybe try a little aromatherapy? Perhaps a long walk on the beach?
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: 4298 IGNORED VOICES ON THE JIRA
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Good grief I thought I was a miserable git but some of you are bordering on being more gloomy than Mr Gloomy from Gloomsville. adult content isn't being banned
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Rin, we literally had teams walking the Mainland and surveying all the content. We've been doing that for over a year actually, because it tells us a lot about the way usage changes over time
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Xantarius, nobody should honestly believe that number until alts can be weeded out, if LL could weed out the lt numbers that would drop like a rock
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Smoke Wijaya|Smoke Wijaya]]: I second Xantarius, yet I would want way more then a nod, namely a radical rewrite of the ToS to ensure menaingful ToS negotiation and user protecttion against arbitrary 'rule'
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Scylla Rhiadra|Scylla Rhiadra]]: If it comes to violent depictions that increase tolerance for violence against women, yeah
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: oh, Ciaran, don't sell yourself short: you *are* a miserable git. :p
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: For example with the Ad farming, it let us closely watch the impact on various areas over time
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Ciaran - isn't Gloomsville a homestead region?
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Ciaran, this makes Prok look positively perky
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: [11:36] Couldbe Yue: [11:06] Couldbe Yue: Jack. Have you decided whether we can purchase extra land as part of the swap? If so, have you decided on pricing yet and how much will it be per sq m?
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: no we are not banned, we are merely segregated...
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: lol Maarianne
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: I already see parcels on sale everywhere on Mainland, the exodus has started
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Haha Qie! That goes in the memoirs!
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Nova Fhang|Nova Fhang]]: Jack with all dure respect their data is wrong.
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Nova Fhang|Nova Fhang]]: This may kill sl
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Stephan Mrigesh|Stephan Mrigesh]]: Jack: Is y Honey MoonCastle at Risk to being moved?
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Opensource Obscure|Opensource Obscure]]: how do you prove it, nova?
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Rin Tae|Rin Tae]]: fallow up question: Thats right, but it would still be nice to see the actual statistics about how the land was used, how it changed etc. I think it would not only be itneresting, but also a benefit for the land buisness to offer such data
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Civlet Moody|Civlet Moody]]: segregated and concentrated. i say concentrated only because there isn't one adult sim per every current mature sim. its a literal constriction numerically.
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: Stephan: only if LL or anyone else gets it flagged
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Willow Halfpint|Willow Halfpint]]: all it means is change. we will adapt or leave
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Isobel Belfire|Isobel Belfire]]: Ursula sounds like moving ppl to "athe Reservation"
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: Why can't you create a DISNEYLAND for those who are afraid of ADULTS BEHAVING LIKE ADULTS???????
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]] claps.
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: it's only a matter of time until the protesters build and script prim molotov coctails and firebomb the Lindex or something
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Elanthius: Cute response. Actually, I want someone to acknowledge that LL has ignored the wishes of a good number of people and not even bothered to assign someone to the ticket. But if you want to attack me personally, I think it's safe to say that you have little else of merit to say.
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Nova Fhang|Nova Fhang]]: Unfortunatly with faulty data revenue lost will be the proof
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Couldbe, re. extra land.. if the parcel on the Mainland is say 2048, then within reason we're fine with you taking a larger one on the new continent (or smaller)
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Opensource Obscure|Opensource Obscure]]: : )
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: It wouldn't make sense to try to fit people to exact parcel sizes
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: WHY NOT jACK?
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Stephan, what is Honey MoonCastle?
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Tray Dyrssen|Tray Dyrssen]]: with the adult and camping issues on the table you can expect 25% to 45% decrease in users . But LL may fudge the numbers to keep investors happy
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: If you care about your customers, why don't you make a vote to ask them if they prefer ursula to be a Adult-Only continent or a PG continent ?
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Arton Dowren|Arton Dowren]]: I thought there was a reason why there was a Teenage grid and an adult grid, this is suppost to be for adults yet its slowly no longer being that
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: Xantarius there were more votes for the homestead tier increase...they really dont bother for it
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Cause it would be trying to put a jigsaw puzzle together from thousands of different manufacturers
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Xantarius, if they've been ignoring you so far wouldn't it be contradictory for them to respond? then they wouldn't be ignoring you
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: that will please those with mainland holdings
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: I am curious to know how many people complained about adult content - because I'd bet the "minority" LL claim to e appeasing are fewer in number than the amount of residents who have signed the jira
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: The consistent statement has been that as long as you had one parcel of smut the whole lot could move.. Now if I want to move from say a half sim to a full sim would that be ok?
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: either LL listen residents even minorities or they are doing tis for themselves - can't have it both ways
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Stephan Mrigesh|Stephan Mrigesh]]: Jack: so does that mean that anyone who has a problem with the sex bed in my Honeymoon Castle at my Wedding grounds, can flag my comntent as innapropriate
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Careful though Jack, because I want to move from a half sim to about 20 Ursula sims
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: The Adult users are far far more numerous than the PG users, it's obvious
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Opensource Obscure|Opensource Obscure]]: firehorse, any data in support to your thesis?
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Renzo, this also has to be a business decision, which I think you can appreciate. it couldn't be decided on a vote
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: "busines decision"
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: I simply don't trust my identity or credit card details online. Even thought I am an adult. I will be blocked for my concerns.
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: interesting
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Firehorse, that's exactly the point. The number complaining about having to see adult content isn't a number LL is going to tell us, but I'm with you... I'll put my money on it being a lower number than the number of residents who signed the JIRA ticket.
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Nova Fhang|Nova Fhang]]: Jack I have to say I am a consultant in RL & I do believe that if you change your product so much you will loose your customer base and that is bad for business. (Consider that titbit a freebie)
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Kiwidude Klinger|Kiwidude Klinger]] agrees with Xantarius
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: hope you like losing business....because that'swhat'sgoing o happn
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: t jira has over 400 sigs, LL have claimed they are doing this for a "Minority" but LL won't give figures - go figure
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: to
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:slowly Bury|slowly Bury]] nods at Nova
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: You created a virtual world, not a game... In a world, people have rights you must respect, and forced delocation is a violation of those rights
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: Nova, for the die hards here there is nowhere else to go. That's why LL can do the things they do
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Laica Forcella|Laica Forcella]]: Want about the shops there sell's Furniture with Sex posse in ?
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Shadow Pidgeon|Shadow Pidgeon]]: WE ARE YOUR BUSINESS
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Stephan, if that is for personal use, non public and you're not selling it or advertising it as adult, then it's probably fine
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: here here shadow :)
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: " Second Life is a free online virtual world imagined and created by its Residents. "
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: " Second Life is a free online virtual world imagined and created by its Residents. "
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: " Second Life is a free online virtual world imagined and created by its Residents. "
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: The jira has only 400 signatures? I can muster that many just from my alts and bots. If each one complains about adult content on the mainland will Xantarius stop?
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Eva Moyer|Eva Moyer]]: "Users under the age of 18 are prohibited from accessing the Service..." & "2.1 ... using true and accurate registration information." - Jack - Are accounts going to be banned when people start age verifying and their profile shows them as 32 and their verification comes back as 19? Just curious.
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: guys...jack is he wrong person for that.....he is responsible for the move not the policies
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Ash Rose|Ash Rose]] seconds rezos thought
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Civlet Moody|Civlet Moody]]: "probably" - i enjoy having a 300$US a month investment riding on the knife edge of a single abuse report. this is my house not a business btw
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: I FEEL SUFFOCATED ALREADY
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: "Go out, take the heat, Jack. When the flames die down, most of them will go along with our plans." *Rubs hands in malevolent glee.*
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Laica Forcella|Laica Forcella]]: So all Shops have to move, there a selling
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Elanthius, if you take out the alts 400 sigs probably is accurate
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: DOES ANYONE ELSE FEEL THEIR CREATIVITY BEING CHOKED OUT OF THEM?
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Jack, my question before must have been lost inthe flood, I know there was a plan to give parcel, sim, estate owners more info on what goes on in their parcels (traffic, scripts, objects, tc...) and to revamp how they recieve this info, has that been put on hold for now or is that still being worked on in the background?
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Opensource Obscure|Opensource Obscure]]: lol. no
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Hehe Jenshae, i've been doing office hours a long time, i'm not here because of the adult policy
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: sigh
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Smoke Wijaya|Smoke Wijaya]]: 400? on the jira on adult content? it has 4298 votes.....
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Scylla Rhiadra|Scylla Rhiadra]]: Jack, with regard to the move. Will some attempt be made to segregate sexual content from VIOLENT sexual content?
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Nova Fhang|Nova Fhang]]: Sorry I am just a business woman I deal in $$
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: no
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Kiwidude Klinger|Kiwidude Klinger]]: Actually Elanthius the names of those who voted for the JIRA are public and accessible, and a simple cross check with search will verify these are real residents
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: I Do gangrel
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: is creativity a euphamism for cash?
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: LMAO
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: Plenty of other places and ways to express my creativity.
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Elanthius: Firehorse made a typo. Had you been paying attention earlier you'd have seen that someone else posted the exact number, it's well over 4,000 signatures. And it's not just ME who is opposed to this. As you can see, many are here. Try to follow along, will you?
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Isobel Belfire|Isobel Belfire]]: indeed, Gangrel
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: No, but I feel my life being sucked out of me by being forced to watch a lot of this drivel come up in chat time and time again Gangrel
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Isobel Belfire|Isobel Belfire]]: lol
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Gordon, no that is still in the works. We're working on a revamp to the website later in the year and part of that will be much more data
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: loss of freedom
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Arton Dowren|Arton Dowren]]: my god with how censored and restrictive things are.......omg im being less restricted in an arab country
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Scylla, not that i'm aware of
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Jack, hopefully including brinking the stats page back up with the land mass numbers
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: i do NOT wish to be DEPORTED to a SEGREGATED continent AWAY from the *assumed* majority based on WHO i am and WHAT i do
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: TALIBAN
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Opensource Obscure|Opensource Obscure]]: that's a good joke, Arton.
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Arton Dowren|Arton Dowren]]: thats not a joke
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Jack, how is it going for mainlanders to view top scripts, etc.
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Scylla Rhiadra|Scylla Rhiadra]]: Thanks Jack, but wouldn't that be in everyone's interest?
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Isobel Belfire|Isobel Belfire]]: will we have to visit Ursula every time we want to shop for skins?
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Yes Gordon
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Shadow Pidgeon|Shadow Pidgeon]] tosses goats to all the trolls so we can get back to the answers
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: No Isobel nekkid skins are mature
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: I've never understood why it can'be so everyone can view script times, like ARC you'd have some problems but it would allow everyone to moderate their parcel and their environment
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Isobel Belfire|Isobel Belfire]]: good to know that at least
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: Come on, laugh. Nothing will change, they have their plans, Jack is doing a great job of public relations and trying to make the tone of his hur lighter. (Even if it is bitter laughter.)
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: hour*
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]]: hehe
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Lodi McMillan|Lodi McMillan]]: Newbies dont stick around to walk through empty but beautiful sims, or to build things they cant share. They stay because of the people. And no matter what you do with "content" you can't change the people. Your actions with either encourage people to stay or they will drive people away. You have to balance that with what LL mgmt sees as its business plan. University students wont be here for years, like most of us here.
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Airethillien, no-one is being deported. We are saying that if you want to sell or advertise adult content or services, you will need to be on a different area of the Mainland, or flag it as such. That isn't deportation. And along with that we are going to give those affected a free choice of high value land in a City style.
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Smoke Wijaya|Smoke Wijaya]]: Yes Jenshae, they indeed had made up their mind already with the initial announcemnet. That ios why we will have to organise and simply refuse to comply to subvert the entire implementation
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Gordon: Same reason you dont give network users admin rights.... it gets messy
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: [11:31] Renzo Goodliffe: Can you provide us tools to move allthe content of an adult parcel directly on the parcel it is swapped for on Ursula ?
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: one by one the penguins ar stealing my sanity
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:slowly Bury|slowly Bury]]: There s too much perception in this issue...
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Willow Halfpint|Willow Halfpint]]: university students are in SL now
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Jack - so sorry if this has already been answered - are you still projecting a June-ish move date?
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Smoke, have funb eing banned then if you try that
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Smoke Wijaya|Smoke Wijaya]]: ah, threathening already
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: When someone gets some stright and blunt answers can they also teach me how to catch smoke and walk on water?
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Moon, I believe so
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: I'm not a Linden I can't threaten
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: I'm just stating the fact that LL will ban you if you do and you get AREd for it
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack: I think your definition of deportation is different from the commonly accepted definition. Forcing someone to move from one area to another, for whatever reason, is deportation.
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: heaven forbid....don't say FUCK or you'll be tped to an ADULT ghetto
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: that's the key point, you could go on for quite some time before you get ARed and disciplined
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Jack is there any substance to the whispers that Tier/Rental payments will be made part of land tools?
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: we're not moving people Xantarius, we're moving content
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Arton Dowren|Arton Dowren]]: your moving people
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: You do realise that adult land allows you to use keywords and imagery in public that you shouldn't be using on mature land now, right?
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: what's the difference, Jack?
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Opensource Obscure|Opensource Obscure]]: wow
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: aren't the people going to go where their new homes or businesses are?
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: if those affected want to keep their old parcel on the Mainland they absolutely can
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:slowly Bury|slowly Bury]]: if you move cotent te people when follow what they love and like
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: content and people go had in hand
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Scylla Rhiadra|Scylla Rhiadra]]: Ciaran makes an excellent point!
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: It's interesting how people have this sense of location in SL. If someone moved one of virtual servers to a different location I wouldn't even notice
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: sure, and pay for it, Jack. they have to pay for two parcels.
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Xantarius, new businesses, homes don't have to move
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Willow Halfpint|Willow Halfpint]]: most people in SL moan about development of SL, and yell we want this ,, or This, when LL makes a move to change something " develop " if you will, SL everyone complains what you have to understand is if LL fails , there will be no Secondlife
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Gangrel Pichot|Gangrel Pichot]]: next thing.....the word "FUCK" will be banned lol
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Gordon, we're not talking about new businesses
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: we're talking about those that are already on mainland.
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Eva Moyer|Eva Moyer]]: Never mind that "content" might be the thousand hours of personal work and or businesses. Nothing like standing on a blank slab of concrete because the rest of your belongings are in the ghetto. ?
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Civlet Moody|Civlet Moody]]: i have to move immediately if i advertise sex. i have to move eventually once i get abuse reported for having a sex bed on my private mature plot. true or false?
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Xantarius, they have to pay tier yes but the parcel itself will be free as part of the free relocation. We think that bearing in mind the value of that land, it's a fair deal
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: and adult content does NOT JUST MEAN SEX
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Xantarius, the only way this would effect homes is if they share a plot with an adult business
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Kiwidude Klinger|Kiwidude Klinger]]: you encourage residents to build and establish a conection with their "land" - and then expect them to not consider the deportation of their content as deportation of themselves?
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Scylla Rhiadra|Scylla Rhiadra]]: Thank you Firehorse. I am far more concerned with the violence . . .
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Laica Forcella|Laica Forcella]]: Our your alt is fat, you get you'll be tped to an ADULT ghetto
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Jack, has the value of a parcel itself besides size been factored in, i.e. protected bordered and sea bordering land
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: my business partner has a skybox over the shop - I bet that private box has ADULT content
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: I have seen sims group in customer bases because of their neighbors. Those same symbiotic relationships will not exist under the conditions this move will create.
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: i think implementing the tier into the client/ parcel settings could be goof, but it would need a scripting backend.
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack: I wasn't commenting on the value of the land. I was simply saying that people were being forced to move, and agreeing with another who said the same. Yes, they can keep their existing parcel, but they'd have to pay for it. If they want to keep their adult content, they have to move it, which means that they move as well (unless, again, if they pay for two areas, and why would they?).
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: *good
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: sims grow*
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: I 512 can be worth 3/m or 10/m depending on where it is
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Will you add an option in the website event form to flag an event as Adult, Jack ?
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: So a good friend of mines sim thats based on edo japan.... has DCs fighting loses a lot of custom cause of this. its hardy gratuitus vilolence no worse than the grand theft auts the kids get from there moronic parents. *ducks
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: jack is there any truth to the rumor that tier/rent will be integrated into the land as part of the land tools?
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Kiwidude, I totally realise that people are attached to where they are. But as i've said before, we think this is the fairest way we can achieve what we need to for adult content. The land on that new continent will be very sought after and is a good exchange, especially as you'll get to choose where you want o be
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: jack, what safeguards have you put in place to ensure we don't get double charged during the move window?
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Couldbe, you WILL get double charged during the move window
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Kiwidude Klinger|Kiwidude Klinger]]: so you would agree that this is indeed deportation then?
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: "very sought after" sounds like "will be damn expensive on the open market" :( ... and I'll need to buy my parcel on the open market to advertise my tits
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Nova Fhang|Nova Fhang]]: Should get 6 months free tier for the move.
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: I know, their IT isn't good enough to stop it - but they're claiming we won't be
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Xantarius, agreed that if someone feels their home is defined by their business location then yes their business location may have to move. But we still feel this is the fairest way we could have done this.
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: 6 months free tier ?
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: lol
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Ash Rose|Ash Rose]]: jack ive had my land scence 03 its on the mainland and i expect ill likely have to move
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Nova Fhang|Nova Fhang]]: Hey that's fari.
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: ouldbe, we'll do all we can through the handoff to make sure people do it in the right sequence to avoid double tier
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Civlet Moody|Civlet Moody]]: oh good luck getting that exchange. blondin already stated only those "severely impacted" would be given a trade. [16:32] Blondin Linden: [16:31] Fos Dagger: What criteria do you have to meet to be eligible for the swap? [answer] It'll be a case by case basis. But we're looking for people who are severly impacted - in other words, people who would have no other choice BUT to move
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: (i think all combat *should* be removed from Mature and PG regions... but I wouldn't want that crap on nice pristine Ursula, either.)
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Ash Rose|Ash Rose]]: will there be any way ll intends to give me fair value ?
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Civlet Moody|Civlet Moody]]: of course we have no definition of what severely impacted means either
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: It's not a bad idea at all. Certainly 2 months to help overcome the impact of the reduction in income
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Scylla Rhiadra|Scylla Rhiadra]]: lol Qie
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Shadow Pidgeon|Shadow Pidgeon]]: shouldnt you also be offering to buy back land from ppl who bought it for a specific use since you want to now change the purchase agreement?
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Lisabeth Nikolaidis|Lisabeth Nikolaidis]]: the faires way you could have done this would be to create a GP continent for those who are offended by Adult content
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Will we still allowed to use Adult Keyworlds in chat on public Mature places after the ACF is implemented ?
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Kiwidude Klinger|Kiwidude Klinger]]: Agreed Lisabeth
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Smoke Wijaya|Smoke Wijaya]]: Gordon, yes, when people snitch LL will be able to locate and ban with their usual lack of investigating the context of the claim. Also why I already called a couple of times, since LL itself states that the rely on the AR system to identify violations and Adult content/conduct, for refusal to snitch. Don't use the Ar system till LL makes it more transparent, gives clear ways for appeal and ends the "for any reason or no reason"-era and get some accountability. Start recognising the user....is also a great "business decision" methinks
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Lisabeth Nikolaidis|Lisabeth Nikolaidis]]: fairest*
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Don't worry Shadow, I'm standing by for all your land selling needs
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Nova Fhang|Nova Fhang]]: Yes a GP contenent
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Sharks are circling. lol
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: well, amazingly that hour has zipped by already!
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Lisabeth Nikolaidis|Lisabeth Nikolaidis]]: and let them move there...all GP businesses all GP content
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: [11:55] Couldbe Yue: jack, what safeguards have you put in place to ensure we don't get double charged during the move window?
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Kasim Saeed|Kasim Saeed]]: YES move the prudes not everyone else!!!
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Nova Fhang|Nova Fhang]]: what's next someone from the taliban demanding all female AV's wear burkas?
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Well not involving estate land as an all or nothing for their island would have been fairer Jack, mainland is your estate, manage it how you best see fit.
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Thanks for your time, Jack.
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Ledoof Constantineau|Ledoof Constantineau]]: smoke will people always be snitching or are there times, in your opinion, when they might have legitimate concerns?
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: Bye Jack :D
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: thanks Jack.
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]] sighs
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: [11:57] Jack Linden: ouldbe, we'll do all we can through the handoff to make sure people do it in the right sequence to avoid double tier
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Cheers Jack
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Don't worry, Jack, this is just the beginning, we'll be back next weeks
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: take care jack
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Adorabella Felisimo|Adorabella Felisimo]]: thanks Jack
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Amras Martynov|Amras Martynov]]: Thanks Jack. =]
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Professor Spark|Professor Spark]]: thanks jack
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: sorry for those that didn't get an answer from me. it's kinda manic standing here typing back to you all
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Shadow Pidgeon|Shadow Pidgeon]]: my land is PG.. trust me its not worth spit
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Kiwidude Klinger|Kiwidude Klinger]]: Thanks Jack, see you next time
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Thanks Jack!
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Scylla Rhiadra|Scylla Rhiadra]]: Bye Jack
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Opensource Obscure|Opensource Obscure]]: Thanks Jack. ciao
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: Bye Jack ;)
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Wynochee LeShelle|Wynochee LeShelle]]: thanks Jack
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Good luck, Jack
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Wait Jack, please don't ban furries from PG sims, I beg you
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]] imagines Jack heaving a huge sigh of relief and going for a coffee.
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Amras Martynov|Amras Martynov]]: Have a good week, Jack!
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Smoke, don't have to worry about that from me, I only AR when I get griefed (which is rare now) and have better thngs todo than to rat out content
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Nova Fhang|Nova Fhang]]: Bye You will need some asprin now Jack
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Isobel Belfire|Isobel Belfire]]: thank you jack
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Civlet Moody|Civlet Moody]]: i think he sees more than 5 people upset over this now...
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Laica Forcella|Laica Forcella]]: bye
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: cya Jack thanks
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: Thanks Elanthius.. must've missed it in the haze :)
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Have fun, Jack!
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: hell if I find illegal gambling or something (prevelant) I'll just ask to join in rather than AR
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: :)
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Bye, Jack
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: time to pick up an escort .. cheers !
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: In my fantasy world someone would now be handing me a pizza and a pint. sadly, that doesn't seem liklely
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: Pity it is a meaningless phrase
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Scylla Rhiadra|Scylla Rhiadra]]: LOL
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Couldbe: Sounds like they won't be doing anything special. You'll have to move your stuff onto the land before you buy it
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Amras Martynov|Amras Martynov]] hands Jack said pizza and pint
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Amras Martynov|Amras Martynov]]: ;p
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hehe thanks.
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Smoke Wijaya|Smoke Wijaya]]: Hi Ledoof. I am primarily talking now about Adult Content policy related 'violations' Ledoof. Not talking about attacks on servers for instance....
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Arton Dowren|Arton Dowren]]: in my fantasy world this shit wouldnt happen lol
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Smoke Wijaya|Smoke Wijaya]]: ...talking about things that we can solve between ourselves
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]] wonders when office hours for Blondin and Jack are going to be back to normal
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Willow Halfpint|Willow Halfpint]]: LOL
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]] contemplates opening a moving and storage business
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: You guys, you drive me crazy. The same old boring questions over and over again. Who the crap cares about half this stuff
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Nova Fhang|Nova Fhang]]: May never be normals again.
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: July 11th Gordon
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: I kind of gathered that.. it means you've got to surrender your old land before purchasing the new
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: after June or whenever this takes place will you people actually let these people get real work done?
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: probably the safest way though
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Shadow Pidgeon|Shadow Pidgeon]] wiggles an eyebrow at civ and murmurs pizza
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: now, next month, in fact for all of June, I will be in San Francisco - but my office hour time will remain the same
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Elan, i find a double whiskey solves this hours foibles
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: In my fantasy world... uh. never mind. *blushes*
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Edge casing these, pretending to be insulted by that, pretending to be confused by the other. It's so tedious
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]] hands jack a pizza and a beer
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Renzo Goodliffe|Renzo Goodliffe]]: Here is your pizza, Jack
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Civlet Moody|Civlet Moody]]: unhand my stomach you scarlet woman you!
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Opensource Obscure|Opensource Obscure]]: gordon: don't you know that SL will soon close because everybody will leave, the economy will fall to 0 and all kittens will die?
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: Elanthius, nobody does, the Lindens should go to a system where questions go through anotherLinden
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Jean Swashbuckler|Jean Swashbuckler]]: go Elanthius!!!
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Jenshae Werefox|Jenshae Werefox]]: Most of the people that will protest this are still unaware of just how much it will impact on them short and long term.
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: four thousand users care
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: All kittens will die? OMG
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: holy moly. so 20 people have just handed me beer and pizza attachments.
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: what lovely people you all are
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Airethilien Banach|Airethilien Banach]] sees Jack get smutherd in pizza & beer in this strange virtual world
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: :)
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Amras Martynov|Amras Martynov]]: xD
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Willow Halfpint|Willow Halfpint]]: hahaha
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Civlet Moody|Civlet Moody]]: every time you have sex with a furreh in an SL church, god kills a kitten
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Kiwidude Klinger|Kiwidude Klinger]]: hehe
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Scylla Rhiadra|Scylla Rhiadra]]: I'm a bit hungry, Jack, if you can spare some
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]] giggles
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Gordon Wendt|Gordon Wendt]]: let a second Linden take the questions and ignore any question that's already been asked, then post the answers to answered questions somewhere public
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Isobel Belfire|Isobel Belfire]]: : ()
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: okay i'm out of here, thanks guys
</div></div>

<div id='box' style='text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em;'>
Generated by [http://kuraiko.zeitenwerk.de/wikify.php SL Chatlog Wikify]
</div>

[[Category:Jack Linden Office Hours]]

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-05-21

2009-05-21T19:12:43Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: New page: <div id='box'> == List of Attendees == <div style='padding: 0.5em'> *Uni Ninetails *TumbleWeed Loopen *Timo Daehlie ...

<div id='box'>
== List of Attendees ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]
*[[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]
*[[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]
*[[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]
*[[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]
*[[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]
*[[User:Silent Loudwater|Silent Loudwater]]
*[[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]
*[[User:Techwolf Lupindo|Techwolf Lupindo]]
*[[User:Ito Setsuko|Ito Setsuko]]
*[[User:Xaria Mistwallow|Xaria Mistwallow]]
*[[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]
*[[User:Mendelssohn Andel|Mendelssohn Andel]]
*[[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]
*[[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]
*[[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]
*[[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]
*[[User:Hia Paine|Hia Paine]]
*[[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]
*[[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]
*[[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]
*[[User:Lim Catteneo|Lim Catteneo]]
*[[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]
*[[User:Wilma Philbin|Wilma Philbin]]
*[[User:LoLa Varriale|LoLa Varriale]]
*[[User:Song Desideri|Song Desideri]]
*[[User:TorqueDom3 Primeau|TorqueDom3 Primeau]]
*[[User:Reznik Enzo|Reznik Enzo]]
*[[User:Akis Ikarus|Akis Ikarus]]
*[[User:RedMokum Bravin|RedMokum Bravin]]
</div></div>

<div id='box'>
== Transcript ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[10:47 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: hihi
*[10:48 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Is that a name from the forums, Timo?
*[10:48 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: i rarely post ;)
*[10:48 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: i kinda expected todays meet to be full of wailing and screaming and gnashing of teeth
*[10:48 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: MM, my miostake then *she says winking
*[10:48 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: I've seen you post ;P
*[10:48 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Did everyone see this: https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/land/blog/2009/05/21/further-clarification-on-bots-and-camping
*[10:48 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Yup
*[10:49 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: looks
*[10:49 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Dytska pasted it 8 mins ago ;)
*[10:49 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: Ola Moos ;)
*[10:49 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: i'm done asking my stupid questions, I'm here to listen, and breathe
*[10:49 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Hi Everyone :)
*[10:49 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: hihi
*[10:50 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]] bows, "Greetings"
*[10:50 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: :)
*[10:50 SLT] [[User:Silent Loudwater|Silent Loudwater]]: no camping bots could be fun for Ragdoll... there is no way thats realistic numbers
*[10:50 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: I think we should drag the bots back in........my stores sales are down ;)
*[10:50 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]] sneaks up to Ito, her hand around his waist, "Hello there"
*[10:50 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Hi Timo, everyone
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:Techwolf Lupindo|Techwolf Lupindo]] lol "The ACP is here. hehe"
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: Hiya Dyts ;))
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: If bots spend money, go for it!
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Hey Dytska
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:Ito Setsuko|Ito Setsuko]]: I'm not Ito, I'm Blondin :P
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: My bots spend money, lots of it
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Hehe, check him out!
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: has anyone seen the PG Sex Bed doing the rounds?
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Ito Setsuko|Ito Setsuko]]: I had an hour to kill, so I though.. facemasks
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: O.O
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: the... squeaky one? ;P
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: You suppose the Lindens avatars look like them? At least THIS one?
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: yes
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I love the fact that Jack always blogs right before his office hours. It shows he's actually concerned about us complaining that he hasn't done what he said he would do last week
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Xaria Mistwallow|Xaria Mistwallow]]: hey tech
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Elan, well it *could* also show that he's only in the office for 2 hrs a week ;P
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Techwolf Lupindo|Techwolf Lupindo]] smiels
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Techwolf Lupindo|Techwolf Lupindo]]: Hi Xaria
*[10:54 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Ok Mosley, either my idea or yours. Definitely one of those two
*[10:54 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: But yeah, at least he did finally put up the blog before today's meeting
*[10:54 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I need to find a better way to pay newbies tiny amounts of money for doing all my work for me. In order to replace camping I mean
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: maybe you can offer them cookies
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: (en->de) vielleicht können Sie sie Cookies
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: homeade ones
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: (en->de) homeade sind
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: games?
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: I have a money ball that pays 1$L every 15 minutes.
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: No, they have to be achieving something of value. But something they can't screw up
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: and when people park for hours, I just enable damage and kill them with my custom damage enabled watermellon gun :)
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Did you ever find any that stayed for longer than 2-3 weeks, Elan? With your previous "post for me on XSL" etc projects?
*[10:57 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah, some oldbie took up the job and does it consistently. So although I only pay tiny amounts of money it doesn't go to a newbie
*[10:57 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Just thinking of my own experiences with newbies hired for simple, low-paying jobs, and how long they actually stuck around (or not)
*[10:57 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: The one I can't keep people for is paying people to put descriptions on my parcels
*[10:58 SLT] [[User:Mendelssohn Andel|Mendelssohn Andel]]: mic is on
*[10:58 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Driftwood, that's 5000 voice minutes right there
*[10:58 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: oops sorry :)
*[10:58 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: lol
*[10:58 SLT] [[User:Techwolf Lupindo|Techwolf Lupindo]] smiels
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: Hello everyone
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: lol looks like theres a potential group of protesters forming
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Xaria Mistwallow|Xaria Mistwallow]]: hello
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: hi Drongle ;)
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Hi Drongle
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: hihi
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: hi drongle
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Yeah, I just saw green dots upstairs again ...
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Techwolf Lupindo|Techwolf Lupindo]]: I'me taking snapshots of the best ones.
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Xaria Mistwallow|Xaria Mistwallow]]: protesters? for what?
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: against protesting :)
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Maybe I will get AR'ed again :)
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Hurray!
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: anyone seen a linden?
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Xaria Mistwallow|Xaria Mistwallow]]: hi jack!
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Oyoy Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hello everyone
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Hi Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: oh theres one
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: Hi jack ;)
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: hi jack!
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Hi Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yo Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]] waits for the chairs and people to appear
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Hia Paine|Hia Paine]]: is this the house that jack build?
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: how is everyone this week? you all getting better weather than me I hope
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: <<gives Jack a Hint.... I am a chair
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hehe Alexxa
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Blondins here too! *she points at Ito
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: oh wow, i did step on a cat
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: I'm used to it, I go to Blondin's meetings ...
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ha Mosley, great avatar
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Wtch outfer the pussy, right?
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Pussy with tits.
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Don't step on the tits
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ah yes. Isn't that a pantomime?
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Okay, so.. let sget this kicked off..
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: you might find it funny
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Hahah, maybe Mosley will travel to London to find his fortune
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I've posted a clarification to the Bot issue, so be sure to check that out
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/land/blog/2009/05/21/further-clarification-on-bots-and-camping
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: looked good to me, Jack.
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Techwolf Lupindo|Techwolf Lupindo]]: How will new users earn a few Lindens to get started?
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: thanks Qie.. any other feedback?
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: just read it thanks for that...but when will you start with the new policy :)
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: So when does enforcement start on the bots?
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: there are still tons of bots around
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Techwolf, that's a super question. We actually watch the economy very closely and we'll see if that does become a problem
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: I'm somewhat convinced that all the bots will soon be "models"
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: so hopefuly that part will be implemented quickly ...
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: If so, we'll definitely be looking at ways to help there
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jack, OK, you started enforcing this policy 3 or 4 weeks ago and yet the worst abuser who has about 123k in traffic and appears top in the search for the contentious "furniture" category still has 2 massive boxes full of bots. What's going on? Have you even spoken to them?
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: hi Jack, i was happy to see your new post regarding that ALL ways of gaming traffic, not only bots, are now included beeing a violation. but then it would be nice to see some results of the new policy. whenver i look on the map, its still full of bots, everywhere. i ask you once again to get residents involved reporting bot use. I'm sure they are way more effective in tracking then what lindenlab is doing currently
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elenthius, I can't speak to specific examples but, in some cases it was the lack of clarity over bots vs non-bots but afk
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: O.o
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Now we have cleared that up, it will make it much easier to go forward
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: So are they arguing back and you're beating them down as we speak? Seems to be taking longer than I would have expected. These guys don't have afk avatars they have large cubes filled with Casper the friendly ghost clones
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dennis, I think we'll need to see how it goes now. I agree there are more of you than of us. :) so if it looks as if we really need that support we'll ask for more reporting
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Again, timeframe, Jack.
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Lim Catteneo|Lim Catteneo]]: so camp master type system is outlawed now too?
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: When do we get fancy graphs showing how many bots you eliminated?
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: YOu keep saying "should see some progress next week", but there's not been any noticeable progress.
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: ok, i will remind you (hopefully i dont have to, but i fear i will need to)
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Xaria Mistwallow|Xaria Mistwallow]]: just ban the accounts used as bots for camping and buying cheap land when available, it is justcausing problems and isnt fair to those that are not as long in SL as those using the bots. specially if you use them basicly to grief on others. people here should think about that for a change instead of complianing about it
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, I think it'll speed up alot now - many people felt that campng chairs were not a part of the policy
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Xaria Mistwallow|Xaria Mistwallow]]: i know it might be harsh what i said, but its true
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Land bots are on their way out anyway
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: as Elan said, we're not talking about camping chairs, but boxes in the sky filled with clone avs.
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Why haven't they been eliminated already
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: ?
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Low-hanging fruit, and all that
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Xaria, it's tricky to take that approach because we end up in a race of how many we can rmove to how many they can create
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: It's better to adopt a sensible and clear policy around gaming. And then enforce against that
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Xaria Mistwallow|Xaria Mistwallow]]: peopel should create real bots for a change that are true prims, that way you know for sure there is a bot and not some person being lazy
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: you solved it yourself jack, as you said, there are way more of us then you. let us search
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Wilma Philbin|Wilma Philbin]]: But won't you hold the landowners responsible for the bots?
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Techwolf Lupindo|Techwolf Lupindo]]: I like to know how they get so many alts. I've tried to get a few alts for testing out things. I'me on some of the beta testing groups. I couldn't get more then a couple of them.
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: You're opening a whole big can of worms there Jack
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Wilma Philbin|Wilma Philbin]]: If you just ban the bots you won't solve the problem
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Incidentally, I saw a bot the other day that was a Cushion, sat in a camping chair. It was pretty impressive
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: fascinating
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Xaria Mistwallow|Xaria Mistwallow]]: i know jack, but it's a fact that bots are already on their way in prim form, i just dont see whe people have to complain about something like this. it is as simple as 1 2 3. the users of the bots (which are avitars) are plainly griefers in a way, besides that plain lazy
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah, probably a third of the people who are likely to comment will be pro-camping chair ban but a lot of people won't like it. Won't somebody please think of the newbies!!
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: so we can now have two gains per chair, one camper, and one cushion
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: :)
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: secondlife improves every day :)
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: So, again, when will the policy start being enforced?
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Xaria Mistwallow|Xaria Mistwallow]]: people should stop using such bots as excuses, its only bad for bussiness and besides that bad for new players
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Xaria Mistwallow|Xaria Mistwallow]]: i guess nobody thought about that side
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Oh we're already talking to quite a few but we'll ramp up on the camping chair farm sites over the next few days
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Xaria Mistwallow|Xaria Mistwallow]]: no new players = no better economy in SL
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Xaria Mistwallow|Xaria Mistwallow]]: simple as that
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: What about the bot skybox farm sites?
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We'll explain the policy, make it clear that what they are doing is not acceptable and take it from there
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: I take it this is part of the land team's area?
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: ..and haven't you been talking to them for the last month since the policy went public?
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: many people don't read the blog, or to status pages, will there be anything on login?
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: *the
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Even most of the users of boxes o' bots want them banned. It should be simple to eliminate the obvious abusers
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: (sorry, stupid question)
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tumbleweed, it's more about the governance side, but yes it's under the umbrella of Land
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Xaria Mistwallow|Xaria Mistwallow]]: I'm Sorry! Jack, i just think further then the basics and personal needs for some people here. SL is a community and people do not play a single player game or a deadmaths game
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: And this same land team is going to be helping in the move?
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: U-day?
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Then it will be lucky chair farms or treasure hunts to inflate traffic
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, we have been talking to those sites that have Bot boxes in the sky, but as i said, it'll ramp up now
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: OK, so are you saying they will be gone tomorrow? Or when?
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: how does such a conversation looks like about?
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dennis, good question. we might run a message of the day.
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Can you maybe give us an idea of how many people you're speaking to? And maybe how many bots they typically run?
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: kk
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Man if you get a message of the day about traffic bots the adult content guys are gonna go crazy-go-nuts
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: *cough cough* Land team working on bots AND the Ursula project, all at once
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, what we're finding is that most of them are happy to stop so long as everyone else does too
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: So they are watching each other
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I mean, without a timeline, maybe it is time for the ARs.. as gentle "reminders".
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jack, yeah, that's the impression I get too. Some stopped and then started again when others didn't follow
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, I don't have that data but I'll try to have data for next time
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Xaria Mistwallow|Xaria Mistwallow]]: its the stubborn people that only think about themselfs that are the problem mostly
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Hia Paine|Hia Paine]]: BOTS?... is that the big question these days? what about the adult ban? and whats adult and whats mature?
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: -not only impression elanthius, i heared it-
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Hia Paine|Hia Paine]]: and WHY?
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Ding!
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: oh not again ..
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: We save adult talk for Blondin on Wednesday he had a full sim yesterday
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Is there an updated chart on the 16sqm extortion plots?
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Better get that updated post Jack
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tumbleweed, different staff - one will not impact the other
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:LoLa Varriale|LoLa Varriale]]: what about adult bots lol
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: i thought this was about customer service issues?
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Land
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: issues
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: The move to Ursula is fair game for this meeting, I think, but definitions and other Adult Content stuff... seems a distraction.
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Jack the NEW prefab regions...when are you expecting them to go live on the land store?
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: land and concierge
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah OK adult stuff. I have questions about that. I'm trying to get a firm sense of how many sims you will auction. Like, let's say you give away 50 sims as planned and auction 50 sims and they all go for L$100/sqm. Will you keep auctioning until prices go down? Or stop after 300 sims? You said before you'd auction as many as necessary I think. But how will you decide how many is necessary?
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: Topics: Any issues relating to Customer Relations/Support
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Hia, I'm going to try to run a few townhalls next week to talk specifically about the adult migration for those that want to discuss that more
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Hia Paine|Hia Paine]]: great, ty
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ideally i'd like to run three, staggered through the day so as many timezones as possible can make it
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: can you tell me why Linden labs have accused me of profanity and banned me from adding items on xstreet?
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Xaria Mistwallow|Xaria Mistwallow]]: wrong Linden, Prills
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: and refused to answer all my questions on the issue
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Xaria Mistwallow|Xaria Mistwallow]]: he isnt the one that is talking about xstreet :p
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: I am a customer
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, I really don't want us to oversupply. So we'll have to see how it goes, but at the same time for those that do want to move we need to give them the option
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: this is customer service
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: wrong place for htat prilis
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: nacy and dakota refuse to answer me
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: i want some customer service
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: Topics: Any issues relating to Customer Relations/Support
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Prills, sadly I don't have any way to address specific support issues. But please do contact support directly so they can explain
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Song Desideri|Song Desideri]]: But you're still looking at only swapping land for business purposes? Not homes?
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: why have i been accused of profanity?
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: The thing is Jack if you put a parcel up for auction it WILL sell. Everything sells for /some/ price. So how will you know when it's time to stop. I guess just think about it. Because the auction prices of this stuff really worries me
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: i have contacted them#
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: when full sims o for 780 usd like lately :)
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, I would expect that when auctions get close to the normal average price we might be reaching the end of the supply, but again - hard to say until we see it unfold
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: so... US$750 opening bid is too low, Elan?
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Jack when do you think the New Prefab sims will hit the land store and any idea on cost ?
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I agree though that we have to watch it carefully
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Xaria Mistwallow|Xaria Mistwallow]]: think about same prices as they ask currently
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jack,that'sclose to what I'm looking for. If you made that a specific policy. To keep releasing land until it was auction for 5/sqm that would really prevent people from trying to do silly things with the land market
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Hey Driftwood.. I don't have an update on that sadly. Keep watching the old blog though!
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: why should they cost more?
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Song Desideri|Song Desideri]]: That's actually a good point too - have you thought into the future and how to decide when its time to expand Ursula further? Sort of putting the cart before the horse I know
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: thanks Jack :)
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, what specifically concerns you.. oversupply
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: ?
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: oh, yes, i actually don't understand how full mainland sims went away for 750 dollar at the auction, while you said there was a demand for them... but 750 dollar for a mainland region is VERY low. Any ideas how that could happen Jack.?
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: right, that's my point: if they just set a rational L$/sqm opening bid, the volume will self-regulate (barring further shocks to demand)
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Both ways are bad, undersupply will drive prices to infinity and beyond and oversupply will negatively affect the rest of the mainland and estate value. It's a minefield
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Song.. I would hope that the adult space grows fairly organically rather than in big sprints because it can unsettle the market otherwise
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: 750 is a good price, there was a stage perviously where full sims didn't attract any bids
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: perviously, freudian slip there
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: It can grow a fair bit from the area we'll start with, but in terms of our normal continents it's quite small
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:TorqueDom3 Primeau|TorqueDom3 Primeau]]: I'd like clarification on the land swap to Ursula. I have a full mainland estate that is definitely adult content. will I be offered a full estate on ursula, and what are my options for the old mainland?
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: The recent 28 mainland ones that we finally got off our pending queue all got bids and were sold I think
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: One went for over $2000
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Though a couple had to go back on due to other issues
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: yes as it was at the sea
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: The rest were $850-$900ish I think
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: 850-900 is still good value
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Torque, yes you'd be offered equivalent space if you're eligible for a free relocation
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Sure, and the market didn't seem to react negatively, it was all fine
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: its poor, concidering they get way more tier and buy price for private regions
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Elanthius, out of interest, did you keep track whether there was a noticeable difference in PG and Mature sims as to average auction prices ..?
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Torque, we may also make an offer for large Mainland owners to migrate to an Island if they wished to go that route (with their content intact)
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I didn't hardly track them at all sadly. The "new" auctioning system sucks terribly. You can't ever see who won the auction or what the price was. It should keep a public history. It's a major problem.
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: blinks
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Well someone was asking for bids of over two grand for a grandfathered class 5 private sim and that was sold quickly.
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:TorqueDom3 Primeau|TorqueDom3 Primeau]]: ok Jack, so I'm offered equivalent space on Ursula. What are my options for the old land? does it revery to protected land? can I keep it and pay double tier, or can I sell it privately?
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Lim Catteneo|Lim Catteneo]]: there are no more class 4 sims
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: There are lots of class 4 sims
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: there still are class 4 sims around
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Torque, right now we're looking at giving you the choice of keeping it (but removing the adult content obviously) or selling it or giving it back to us, but only after we've agreed to the relocation
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: So you;d need to wait for the process to start before doing anything
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: (Torque: open mic)
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: So you arent sure yet? When will you be? When will this be announced, and where?
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Yeah, open mic.. i Hear typing
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Keep the full sim, take the new sim on Ursula, sell the old sim for 700 bucks and you're quids in
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Ito Setsuko|Ito Setsuko]]: Jack, I assume the third option is just not to publicly advertise it, also, rather than removing the content?
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: It's been nearly TEN weeks, Jack
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:TorqueDom3 Primeau|TorqueDom3 Primeau]]: understood. and how to you intend to stop people from bying up hundreds of useless 512k plots of mainland, dropping a sex bed on it and advertising it as a sex club, and then requesting to combine all that worthless land into a full sim on ursula for free?
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ito, it depends I think. we'll be talking more soon about definitions etc, but commercialised adult content or services are the key ones that need to move
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah, you should make the fact you get to keep both parcels more public. It would really turn all the adult content people around to loving the idea. Who doesn't want $700 of free money
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Their crappy businesses aren't making that much, that's for sure
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: As I think we said at a previous office hours tumbleweed, we took the choice to talk early which of course means that no everything is nailed down. That way we got to include your feedback as we worked through the details.
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Lim Catteneo|Lim Catteneo]]: Elanthius, I'm glad you're such a repository of checked and true facts :P
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: i would think there will be a limit youll have to have owned the land for x months for an adult transfer
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I think most people prefer that but it does mean a delay in thngs being finalised.
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Heh, Elan: what do you think pays for land? It's a pr0n economy. :p
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: jack, how is the new economic data page moving on? as M linden announced it would be ready by the end of April, which was correct by you begiing may as undetermined, now almost a month later its still not up...
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Lim, I looked it up in my gut. And my gut told me it was true.
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Mm, well, I'm now tied of waiting..I do understand that but it's been ten weeks of hell, thank you
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: *beginning
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Hia Paine|Hia Paine]]: there is alot of love in this room.
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: havent they banned love yet?
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:TorqueDom3 Primeau|TorqueDom3 Primeau]]: please understand. I have no issue with flagging my business as adult content and turning on adult verification or payment on file. I'm not against the concept. I'm just fearful you are understimating the logistics of implimentation, and the exploitation that will occur.
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dennis, we're definitely behind in getting that done. I wish i had a better update but i don't right now. I will go dig into it more though
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: love for our co-residents, not for lindenlab i think lol
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: OH, absolutely Torque, it is already happening
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Hia Paine|Hia Paine]]: did i say love? i meant bs
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: thanx for answering
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Torque, it's definitely a risk. But you know we have a big support group now and we're planning around contingency in case things go sideways. If we have to extend out the timing, we can do that too
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: As for exploitation, it's possible but we can see what was historically on a region and people probably realise that
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: But we'll see!
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Song Desideri|Song Desideri]]: Dumb question on teirs - I've been assuming that it will be 9 days from X point and thus be different for each individual - is this the case or are you allowing double teirs for the mass until most everyone gets their acts together?
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:TorqueDom3 Primeau|TorqueDom3 Primeau]]: I have felt since I joined Sl in 2006 that "free accounts" should have very limited access to only the orientation parts of SL, and to gain full access, you must adult verify or put pmt info on file, not unlike the 2 week free trial WoW gives you before you have to pay the monthly fee. if that had happened, none of this would be an issue now
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Yes, and sadly you have underestimated the store affected, in need of a swap, due to their inability to advertize
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: with that new datacenter agreement you just signed and the new server types coming up...will there be class 6 land?
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Song, it'll depend on each case. We don't want to trip people into double tiers though.. so the swap will be cooridnated through the support tickets
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We can fix the tier issue at our end
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Equinox: They're gonna use nehalem machines for the next servers. Probably jam more sims per CPU as well
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Lim Catteneo|Lim Catteneo]]: Equinox, they don't plan to make sim runs faster, thay plan to jam more sims maximizing $$$
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Song Desideri|Song Desideri]]: Ahh cool thanks
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Equinox, there was a blog that mentioned it in passing a few days ago
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: thats what i wanted to hear from jack as i fear that too
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Lim Catteneo|Lim Catteneo]]: the blog mentioned that "green" server == more sims per server
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: sigh the mem bus is already cacking itself now....
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: the post clearly said a "new class of sims" tough, which was or bad choice of words, or really what it should be.
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Equinox, not as such. I expect we may move away from the class model a little. It's something we're discussing because almost everyone is not on class 5
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: !!!! Almost everyone is not on class 5?!
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: ok..that would be a good decision for sure
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: ?!!!
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: oops spello
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: *now*
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: lol
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I thnk he meant "now on"
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: typo
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: ??
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: LOL
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: So the way it is, the english speaking public get screwed first, because its english words banned. The non english speakers get screwed last and hardest, because they wont know about it until late, and Ursula is full
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: man that was a pretty good spello too
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: XD
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Lim Catteneo|Lim Catteneo]]: why reduce lag and make sims faster if you can jam more sims per server increasing your profit? :P
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Go grab a can of Special Brew for that one Jack
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Not as good as MJ's typo about the prefab sims being reviled
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Lim, I didn't say there wouldn't be new hardware, we buy new hardware all the time. I'm just saying that the way we think about it in terms of classes may change
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: methinks that these are defining days for SL
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ciaran, MJ said that?
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: it would be nice if all sims were updated over time (if also their tier would be updated regarding - lower or higher) instead of this "pay to get a higher class thing". my provider upgrades my connection specifications as well, without making me pay more and more.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: He meant to say revealed Jack ;)
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Uni, special brew? really?
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ha that's classic Ciaran
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jack, someone once mentioned that there might be sims with more prims, like 30,000 prims, or higher performance or some sort of different type of sims from what we have now. Is there any progress on that?
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: yeah, blue mars
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: :D Or Tennants Extra somthing to clear the dust out
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dennis, yeah.. The class model ties our hands and yours. If we had a minimum level that everyone knew was the least they would get it would give usmore ability to manage things and make your land purchases 'age' less
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: they didn't mention prim counts, but they talked about light full sims, and a super full sim or something
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Ok so if you move away from the class system would that mean free upgrades to better hardware during the course of our tenancy? I know mainland already does that but private estates don't appear to
*[11:41] BIO - STORM core: BIO - STORM CORE ready.
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, not as yet. It would be nice though wouldn't it. Ideas around a 'mega region' and what that might mean have gone around many times - but no updates there
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Jack, question from someone else about a Gov Linden land sale (quoting here):
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: From today in the "small No. of mainland regions" Raff states "May 2009 "we are selling Sims" (a true story) a customer called Linden asked to buy Gov Linden Ocean Sim response "NO that sim is Linden Ocean it will remain in the Linden Inventory it is to better enhance the SL experience for boating, sunsets etc... so the customer bought the two parcels adjoining the Gov Linden PROTECTED Ocean sim and paid premium dollars because these parcels are LINDEN OCEAN FRONT PROTECTED.
*
*guess what? today the Ocean SOLD to a big Land developer he immediately raised the land cut it in 4096m Estate lots"
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: questionsi s...who would pay for that *g*
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Reznik Enzo|Reznik Enzo]]: wow so many ppl where am i
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ciaran, yeah it would mean that as the grid itself upgrades over time you'd no longer be pinned to the lower spec
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Jack if Open Space sims had to be changed because of cost issues (the homestead saga) how can having Grandfathered Class 5 sims be justified ?
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Akis Ikarus|Akis Ikarus]]: Hi there:D
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Hia Paine|Hia Paine]]: will LL buy back the sim i bought if i dont accept their new policy?
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Akis Ikarus|Akis Ikarus]]: Hey jack we are all here for one reason i think
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: That sounds fair to me Jack
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, I haven't heard about that so I can't comment.
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: If you know more, drop me a direct IM
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jack, what can we do to prevent you from raising the price on Homestead sims? I was thinking maybe a protest would do the trick.
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Was posted in the comments of your "auctioning a few sims" blog post
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Reznik Enzo|Reznik Enzo]]: is this a protest?
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: guys, I know you want to ask things but if you drop notecards to me and too many direct IMs it's really tough to keep the chat going
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: so please drop notecards after the meeting
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I'm up to about 30 IM tabs now hehe
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Akis Ikarus|Akis Ikarus]]: oki..i hope you will give little time to reed them
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Silent Loudwater|Silent Loudwater]]: is there an update on microparcels?
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: why does the website say you answer customer service questions here when you ignore them?
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Tier raising protests are so 2008
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Prilis, the website totally says the opposite of that
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Reznik Enzo|Reznik Enzo]]: emm ok then Lol...! peace out ppl
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Silent, I don't have the most recent chart here but the curve is stil heading down. it looks as though we'll be down below 10k 16m parcels for sale very soon
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: Topics: Any issues relating to Customer Relations/Support
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: when will people know if they got accepted for the land expo
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: What's the first derivative? Positive or negative? Is the decrease slowing or increasing?
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: the european union should take a closer look to your pricing policy. they are more effective in anti-trust and huge fines then the USA.
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: post the rest... ".. or land IN GENERAL"
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: just like the sign on your office says you are out of town....
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: yes cs OR land
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: MJ Posted that he was on it Equinox :)
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Right, IN GENERAL
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Prills, we discuss the bigger issues affecting support and land but as it's an open forum we can't deal with individual support cases
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: need to remove that OR jack
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: whatever that means :)
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: IE, he doesn't naswer specific support questions
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: *answer
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: need to answer peoples questions
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Sorry Prills. Do contact support though, they can help i'm sure
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: ohh welll lol
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: i HAVE THEY DONT!
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: LOL
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: thats why i am here
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Equinox, MJ is coordinating that but hopefully soon. We're really excited about the expo
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Are the Homestead price Hikes confirmed?
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: need to remove the or!
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, it was speeding up last time i checked
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: i think it is a good idea for sure..for once :)
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: this is a joke
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Sweet. Gotta say I personally have seen a lot of results from the ad cutting thing. Been picking up dozens of abandoned parcels lately
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Jack, is there an update for microparcels?
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Dytska: [11:46] Jack Linden: Silent, I don't have the most recent chart here but the curve is stil heading down. it looks as though we'll be down below 10k 16m parcels for sale very soon
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Any luck on the remaining recalcitrant ones?
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: We should plan a party for when Austin bites the dust.
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: Primlands?
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yup
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dytska, we just covered those... still progressing well
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Gold Coins / Prim Plus
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: I am finally seeing progress on the ad cutting, most of the ones near me seem to have got into the spirit of the changes at last
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Hahah, I spoke to Ancient Shriner he implied he's going to sue you guys over it
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: With the exception og Gold Coins
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Woot
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: yay, Ancient! hope he's got deeper pockets than his little microparcel micro-empire suggests. else he couldn't pay to commute to small claims court.
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Haha, he specifically said "I'm not worried about LL they are worried about me"
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Well, he has a lot of secret influence. He's practically the definition of FIC
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Ooooo..
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Evil Diaper Bag
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: No, that was GnuSense. :P
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: oh right, he's still on that secret super developer cabal committee cartel thing.
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, do you really think there is an FIC?
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Sure, Jack. There ALWAYS is a AFIC
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]] passes secret note to Elanthius
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: No but there are people who have close contacts with Linden Lab employees and get good information early or manage to exert their influence over the way things go
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: ..which is more or less what a FIC is
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: How does wasshername on Massively always get the scoop on every single thing? She's FICcy
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Same thing happens in MMOGs.. "RL Developer Buddy"
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: thinks needs to go out with jack lol
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: That's call PR Elanthius.. we work with a lot of the press and bloggers
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Hey come on, it's Jack's job to keep the conspiracy hidden, otherwise he'll be wearing concrete boots
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Sure, if you like, you can call it PR.
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: haha thanks Equinox!
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: :)
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: So, Jack, the remaining recalcitrant extortion microparcel owners.. any idea when they will be cleaned up?
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Or is this as good as we can expect it to get?
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: There must be some point where you just declare, "No, wrong. You're banned". How far away is that?
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, not definitively. But we're talking to all of them, and we still expect it to improve lots yet
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Hia Paine|Hia Paine]]: will LL buy back the sim i bought if i dont accept their new policy?
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Hia, I'll buy it
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: you cant ask questions jack doesnt like hia
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: ..and if they say "no"? or "I'm working on it" forever?
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Hia Paine|Hia Paine]]: yay
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Hia, we wouldn't buy back but if you need to talk to us about options then we can do that.
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: you are censored, deal with it
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Hia Paine|Hia Paine]]: options.. ok, ill get back next week
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, I don't think it would come to that. It's far better that we work with people to do this in a sensible way, it helps us too because then the land comes back to us in the right ways
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: i will wait for you to change the wording of your website to suit your purposes like everything else jack
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yeah, but, if they basically string you along indefinitely, what's the resolution going to be?
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Prilis Boa|Prilis Boa]]: thanks for nothing
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Well, if you say right now you're not going to ban anyone then they know they don't have to do anything you ask
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: You've turned yourself into the Mall Cop
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Akis Ikarus|Akis Ikarus]]: true..
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Hia Paine|Hia Paine]]: im sorry, i have to get back to my farm and feed my ass, see you later plp!
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I know Primlands isn't going to stop until he's banned.
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: take care hia!
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Hia Paine|Hia Paine]]: ppl*
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: There is a lot of daylight between working on a solution with them, and banning someone. In the large majority of cases it has come down to good dialigue and understanding whatthey need from us to be able to make drastic changes
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: bai!
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I suppose it's probably better but this is the reason why it takes so bloody long
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Akis Ikarus|Akis Ikarus]]: they already knows that you will not ban them for this and they still doing this
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]] thinks what Austin "needs from us" is a swift kick in the nuts.
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, in a month from now, and nothing has changed with them, what next? More talk?
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:RedMokum Bravin|RedMokum Bravin]] gave you VulcanMyst_001.
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: It sounds like you are just going to let them swing in the breeze forever.
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:RedMokum Bravin|RedMokum Bravin]] gave you VulcanMyst_003.
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: really, how much time is enough time?
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: What do they need?
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: No wait, not Mall Cop, you're the UN
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: They only want money ... are you giving them our money?
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:RedMokum Bravin|RedMokum Bravin]] gave you VulcanMyst_004.
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Bear in mind Akis that I'm talking about the holding of very large numbers of 16m parcels and operating that kind of business, which is why we are working with them to move away from that business model. But if it were an issue of land cutting itself, that would become a governance issue
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: And we certainly could suspend someone for repeated cutting
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: oh please: it's only a few sims, all told.
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: What is a very large number?
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Even a thousand parcels is just a quarter sim. hardly anything
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Akis Ikarus|Akis Ikarus]]: yes...my problem jack is about 3 sims with full sq.m
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: SOme of them have had thousands of parcels but it varies.
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: So, basically, as long as they don't cut any new ones, they can leave all their old ones out in perpetuity?
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Akis Ikarus|Akis Ikarus]]: 200 bots at 3 sims
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Okay guys, my hour is up. I have to stalk to the next meeting
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Techwolf Lupindo|Techwolf Lupindo]]: I think they are starting with the largest numbers and slowly working there way down...
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Cheers Jack
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Exactly Techwolf
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Primlands is one of the largest
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: ok Jack thankies
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: thanks Jack
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: thank you for coming along, always a pleasure!
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: take care jack!
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah good stuff Jack, thanks for the answers
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Thanks Jack!
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Akis Ikarus|Akis Ikarus]]: bb..and i hope you will help stop this
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: Bye ;))
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]] waves
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Akis Ikarus|Akis Ikarus]]: i have one idea
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Akis Ikarus|Akis Ikarus]]: to get some bots here
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Akis Ikarus|Akis Ikarus]]: loll
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Akis Ikarus|Akis Ikarus]]: bb people
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: 10,000 16sqm's is only about 2.5 sims, right?
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Eh well.. it's like trying to catch eels with oven mits.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: Hmm. When will Jack accept that some people are just incorrigible?
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: He's just plain too nice. These people are playing him for a sucker
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Akis Ikarus|Akis Ikarus]]: see on the map---->greece digital dilos island west attica
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Akis Ikarus|Akis Ikarus]]: 150 bots
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Is there a time frame for that "hot place" to get icebergs?
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: Depressing
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: right, well, you can see how much tier is contributed to their groups, if you look at Advanced / View Admin Options. They're not that big. Austin has several groups... I think hes' the largest now, in sum.
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yep
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Doesn't landmachine tell you the size of the groups?
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:RedMokum Bravin|RedMokum Bravin]] gave you Gira Pipe Dome (Mini).
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: yeps
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Oh well, see ya guys, I have some custom work to do...
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: well, there can be a difference between land owned, and tier paid.
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Eh well.. all we can do is keep the pressure on. Eventually, it will break them. Eventually. About the same time when the Sun goes nova
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: sigh
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Same with bots.
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: is somthing happening friday?
*[12:06 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: With?
</div></div>

<div id='box' style='text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em;'>
Generated by [http://kuraiko.zeitenwerk.de/wikify.php SL Chatlog Wikify]
</div>

[[Category:Jack Linden Office Hours]]

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-05-14

2009-05-20T10:57:59Z

Elanthius Flagstaff:

<div id='box'>
== List of Attendees ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]
*[[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]
*[[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]
*[[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]
*[[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]
*[[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]
*[[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]
*[[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]
*[[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]
*[[User:Hank Sicling|Hank Sicling]]
*[[User:Rysan Fall|Rysan Fall]]
*[[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]
*[[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]
*[[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]
*[[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]
*[[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]
*[[User:Cuddlebug Clowes|Cuddlebug Clowes]]
*[[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]
*[[User:Lindin Lindman|Lindin Lindman]]
*[[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]
*[[User:Wildefire Walcott|Wildefire Walcott]]
*[[User:Dementor Neiro|Dementor Neiro]]
*[[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]
*[[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]
*[[User:Mari Moonbeam|Mari Moonbeam]]
*[[User:Mavromichali Szondi|Mavromichali Szondi]]
*[[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]
*[[User:samatha Congrejo|samatha Congrejo]]
*[[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]
*[[User:Reparata Nightfire|Reparata Nightfire]]
*[[User:Kara Spengler|Kara Spengler]]
*[[User:Kira Welty|Kira Welty]]
*[[User:Danielle Eber|Danielle Eber]]
*[[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]
*[[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]
*[[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]
*[[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]
*[[User:McCall Ryder|McCall Ryder]]
*[[User:Phideaux Mayo|Phideaux Mayo]]
*[[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]
*[[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]
*[[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]
*[[User:Wynochee LeShelle|Wynochee LeShelle]]
*[[User:Medusa Torok|Medusa Torok]]
*[[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]
*[[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]
*[[User:Echo Underwood|Echo Underwood]]
*[[User:Magnet Homewood|Magnet Homewood]]
*[[User:Opensource Obscure|Opensource Obscure]]
</div></div>

<div id='box'>

== Transcript ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: "At ease, pets" ;-)
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: be itnresting to see if the idiot actually shows up this week....
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: hi Talarus
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Pets? O.o
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Ah man, drama last week and I missed it?
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: I'm right here! .. hehehehe
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Greetings, xstorm :)
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Hmm, a viuctim of SL violence Diamond?
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Drama is guarantted every week
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: please do not call hard working people idiots
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: i dont. i call jack one
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: trust me hes not hard working...
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: do not call jack one please
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: now bridie
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: twilight
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: q
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yikes, little aggressive Erinyse
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: their hard working
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: and smart
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: I think the sim is going to fill up - looks like another meeting
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: I think its protesters getting ready to come on over here actually
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Though of course I could be wrong
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: their camped up by his office
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Hi folks
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]] was playing with my cam
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Oh a protest? How droll. What are they protesting? Bot thing?
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Hi again
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: uni!
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: theres a sign up there btw
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: hi Uni :-)
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: so yeah, the sign up there where the picketers are says he's out this week
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: elanthius their protesting the ghetto
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Adult content filtering
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Came to the wrong place then, it has hardly anything to do with Jack
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: christ there a bit late picketing
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: haha
*[10:54 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: you kidding me elanthius?
*[10:54 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: it has aLLOT to do with jack
*[10:54 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: the Adult content is inplace and working fine
*[10:54 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: He just works for customer service or something, nothing to do with policy like this
*[10:54 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: did you miss its openting ?
*[10:54 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: um hes one of the policy makers at LL
*[10:54 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Didnt he try to say that last week?
*[10:54 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: OK, believe what you like
*[10:54 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I don't generally call people "idiots"; I call their words and actions "idiotic" at times, but unless it is the normal, expected situation, even smart people can act idiotic without actually being idiots. ;)
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: He tried to say that the U project wasnt a land issue or something
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: elanthius... Jack is one fo the peopel on the team that does ALL the policy making
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Havent they figured out picketing didnt have any effect with the openspace debackle it sure as hell aint gonna work this time
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I guess I just assumed he wasn't involved since he has been almost completely uninvolved and most of the time doesn't even really know anything about it.
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:Hank Sicling|Hank Sicling]] checks to make shure his cock is hidden....
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Well it gives them something to do
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Not sure if they have figured out anything, they kept calling me a dog
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: nope *GIGGLES* :)[[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]] 20:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Actually, it had a major effect with openspaces
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:Rysan Fall|Rysan Fall]]: I was saying the same thing not too long ago
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: hi Tegg
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]] grumbles, Tal, where's the other dragon?"
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Rysan Fall|Rysan Fall]]: the open source protests were a farce
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: Hi All
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Maybe Jack is playing mind games with us by just pretending not to know anything about it
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Instead of Homesteads being $125 out of the gate, they got to be $95 for 6 months (at least)
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: dessie
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: uni it got them to do the price hike in steps and to add an entire new class of servers
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: and theres talk at LL of keeping the homesteads at 95
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: That is a good point
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: instead of hiking them
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: you look good to day Uni
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Dunno, Tumble. He'll be here shortly I think
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Erinyse : talk within LL or just random nobodies begging for it?
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: thanksies
*[10:57 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Just finished making a writing animation for my typing AO
*[10:57 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: within ll
*[10:57 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: great work
*[10:57 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: So you have secret inside information then Erinyse?
*[10:57 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: tyty :)
*[10:57 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: i have allot of lindens i talk to regularly
*[10:57 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: one of the benifits of being a volunteer
*[10:57 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: So whats this about land image i got?
*[10:58 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: How comes you didn't know Jack wasn't involved in AO then?
*[10:58 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: do you now
*[10:58 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: I knwo jack is in ao
*[10:58 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: you talk to lots Linden ?
*[10:58 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: xstorm look at my groups.
*[10:58 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: so ?
*[10:58 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: two of them are linden owned volunteer groups
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Right, CLUB CLEOPATRA, well known Linden hangout
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]] nods in the direction of CouldBe, "Greetings"
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: i interact with those lindens almsot daily
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: thats nice
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: bsi
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: battery street irregulars
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: linden owned
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: i have never seen one linden
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]] smiles at TumbleWeed and waves
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: i am part of triage...
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: *GIGGLES* :)[[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]] 20:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: You've seen Jack! :p
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: That's one
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: are you now
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: yes i am
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: yes but jack is not one
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: He's not a Linden? O.o
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack is a linden
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: This is why LL shouldn't encourage this nonsense, gives people delusions of grandeur
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: greetings, Jack
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: They should give out prizes and ribbons instead ;)
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: no jack is not one he is more then one *GIGGLES* :)[[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]] 20:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: hi hi Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]] rolles eyes
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Hi Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hi hi!
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: hey qie
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: heya Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: hi jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Might wanna not go upstairs...
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hmm lots of people up in my office today!
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Cuddlebug Clowes|Cuddlebug Clowes]]: hi jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: lynch mobs waiting upstairs jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: "And there he is, the lovely and talented, Jaaaaaack Linden!
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: It's safer down here. They called me a dog up there!
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I'm annoyed I'm gonna miss the excitement. Can't see anything but text on my crappy laptop
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yeah.. there are a bunch of folks at your "office" :P
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: Jack some of them have there claws out
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: there we go
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]] shouts: Jack's office hour is held in the Lobby (for those up in his office)!
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: god help you jack
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: heh
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: noobs
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: crude but effective!
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: You're a brave, brave man Jack
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Aww... now you've done it! :P
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: THis is going to be good!
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Lindin Lindman|Lindin Lindman]] shouts: Thanks Jack! *Laughs*
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: just godlike teleport them here Jack
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: Lol, they may have been up there for half the meeting if you hadn't said anything ?
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]] shrugs and waits
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Better sit down for when the pushing starts
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Anyone pushes me, they get et
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: zomg dont takes away the prim wangs... XD
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Where's the other bookend, Tal?
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Tempt not the dragon! ... for you are crunchy and good with ketchup!
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: if i sit on anyone, please accept my apologies
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: *GIGGLES* :)[[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]] 20:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Wildefire Walcott|Wildefire Walcott]]: ao off
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack ild like to im you about something that i dont want public if i may?
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: That old excuse
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Lindin Lindman|Lindin Lindman]]: Thanks Jack, we saw your sign and thought you were away
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: Xantarius Cain your way to late put it away your side lost
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Wildefire! Hi, is Jill Winger!
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: he just wanted to sit on Timos lap
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: xstorm please stop being dsiruptive
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Wildefire Walcott|Wildefire Walcott]]: oh hey jill!
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: i need to get that glass sign fixed up there, never seem to get around to it hehe
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Dementor Neiro, please get off me!
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Oh good grief it's a protest
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: So? That's what we do here every week, Pinky. :P
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: you probably also need to fix the "corsica, coming soon" sign too
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Dementor Neiro|Dementor Neiro]]: sorry
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: and a bunch of people holding up silly prims is not ?
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: lol
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]] grins and bounces a little
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: adult ghetto... its 300 sims :)
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: okay, so thanks to everyone for coming along.. great to see some new faces here. who has someone they'd like to discuss?
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: they look like a bunch of noobs
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Oh a protest?1?! Wellthat changes everything! AO is cancelled!
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]] holds up silly prims every time he puts on his hair
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: hahaha
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: welcome back Tal
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: You'll cancel my AO when you detach it from my cold, dead attachment point. :D
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: I'd like to hear an update on how the microparcel extortion and hte traffic bot situations are progressing :)
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: (To ask something not related to adult content for a start :))
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hey mosley
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Wildefire Walcott|Wildefire Walcott]]: I have 2 related questions. 1) Why does LL allow the transfer of $195 tier of grandfathered class 5 sims? And 2) When is LL going to raise the prices of grandfathered class 5s so all class 5 owners are for once on a level playing field?
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Agreed Msley, very slow progess, especialy on the bot front.
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: xstorm and elan please stp heckling the protestors.
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: Have you got anything to say Jack before the torches get lit? ?
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Good choice, Mosley. :D
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: I agree with Wildefire's number 1 question for sure
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: the micro-parcel count is still in decline. actually, if you give me a sec i can upload a graph..
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: oh by the way Adult is AC for short you missed the last 3 meetings
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Wildefire Walcott|Wildefire Walcott]]: (well question one is having a big impact on question 2, ciaran)
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: ooo. business graphics!
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Hello, Jack. We've come here today to express our concern over the proposed adult content changes, specifically, filtering of adult content and the forced move from the mainland to a new continent of all adult content.
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Why not hand everyone a PDF in world? Oh, right.
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: lol
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: thats great new
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: okay, there we go. so as you can see things are speeding up as the number of 16s for sale drops off
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Uh, where?
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: thats great news that 16m is now down
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: for sale or total count of 16m2s?
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: up there, Elan :)
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: i see the same people still cutting ..
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]] wants one
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Uh, I'll look later
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Not by me they ain't
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: It's jut for ale 16s, right?
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: total count of those for sale...
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Yup just for sale
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: this chart is just 16s yes, but the same is true for 32s
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Mari Moonbeam|Mari Moonbeam]]: on the gray cube?
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: so you've only managed to get rid og 1/4 of them in 3 months? what's the holdup?
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Mari, is should rez for you soon
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: yeah, it shows a decline from 2/15 at over 16k, to 5/3 at below 11k
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: (for the "count of 16m mainland parcels for sale")
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: It was 12k last wek though, right?
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: It's a decline, but at this rate, it will be 2 years before it gets down under 2000
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Mavromichali Szondi|Mavromichali Szondi]] waits for rez
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Right, Elanthius, according to the graph
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: As for the traffic bot issue, the worst case ones are being dealt with now as we started enforcement last week
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: it would take less than a morning to create a job that looks for parcels 16m and priced over say 5L per metre.. (10 even if you want to be generous) run then and reclaim them
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: This is the best lag I have seen in a while!
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: hey baby whats your sign?
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: dytskja and yhan please put the batiing signs away. please do not bait those you disagree with
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: LMAO
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We're going to post to the blog again to clarify about camping chairs
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: As there's a lot of confusion around those
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Clarify?
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: What's the word?
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Can you give us a preview?
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack, will someone be assigned to the JIRA ticket regarding the adult content changes? http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-2727
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, it will never get down to 2k because many 16m parcel sales are completely reasonable. We're tackling the huge micro-parcel dealers not the selling of small parcels
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Do you have a target then?
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Really? I've yet to see a "reasonable" microparcel sale.
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: At least Primlands is still out and about at IIRC 1495 per parcel ... they're certainly huge and certainly not reasonable ..
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Xantarius, the Adult content project is being run by a separate team, I'm only involved in the migration part
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: So I don't know
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: So is that why a pacel for sale by me that went on the market for L$9900 after the new policy is allowed? They're not a big group?
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]] mumbles "could have textured the back of yer protest signs...
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: If any of the ones near me are any measure, anyway... $995, $2995, $3000, $9900, etc
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: How are you quantifying success?
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: cyn tells us you're the man though
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: In that case...Regarding the migration, Jack... what will happen to those who refuse to move?
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: so who is right?
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Well, at least the graph shows a desired tendancy
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: I know this question has been asked before...but no answer was given.
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: Trust no one
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, the data looks to show that at around 6k we'd have removed the top 10 micro parcel dealers
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I believe
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]: Mister Linden, for the benefit of people you have moved to other land because there sim was changing rating in a near futur
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: I think they look more realistic with the pywood backs ?
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: The ones below those hold far less
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]: will the Linden compansate the cost on the moving
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Sorry, I can't see the graph. It takes me ten minutes just to move my camera and even then it ends up in some random direction
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]: cost me 300L a week because i moved to another land
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: LOLOL 300L a week? Everyone who is oced to move gets double their land for free.
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, that you can figure, anyway. What about the ones that use disposable alts to buy and cut the basic 512sqm? It is highly suspected that they are all the same person.
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Couldbe, I'm involved with the Land part as I said, but not the policy discussions in Jira and the forums. But I'm happy to talk about the Land aspects
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Also, Jack...who is our contact for the project, overall. In other words, who can we contact, or whose office hour can we attend, who will be abe to address the adult content changes fully?
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]] shrugs. "Im not moving, none of the businesses on the sim im on are moving. if LL wants to move the sim... we're ok with that..
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Grandfather private land in for a fair bit longer than mainland then Jack :)
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, we have good data there. It all adds up to the size of the market so we're not missing anyone
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]: MisterLinden to who should i address my complaint then.
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: ok. then 1. have you set a window for the move 2. have you a date to open the move list 3. will we be able to increase land holdings as part of the move by buying directly from you as part of the changeover
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, just sayin' they aren't going to be in your "top ten", but they are likely as big as many of them who are in it.
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: and of course if yes 4. how much will the land be per sq m
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Can we g back to Wildefire's question. I'm extremely interested in when you'll finally stop grandfathering $195 estates
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:samatha Congrejo|samatha Congrejo]]: Jack i tihnk the point everyone is getting at is no one is answering the questions, they all say i an not involved, i don't handle that, i don't know, we will get bakc to you, no one will answer the serious ladn issue questions
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: hopefully never.
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: anyone else get knocked out?
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Reparata Nightfire|Reparata Nightfire]]: Yes Mr. Linden, to whom should we address our complaint about the Adult Contenet Filtering?
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I believe Blondin is doing most of the communications directly
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: i got kicked so hard my butt hurts
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: not
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Well the reason for grandfathered status on transfer has surely long passed its sell by date
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: He has regular office hours too i think
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:samatha Congrejo|samatha Congrejo]]: He is not communicationg, he ignores most serious questions
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: So then you'd suggest that we deal directly with Blondin?
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, try to, anyway.
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:samatha Congrejo|samatha Congrejo]]: we just spent an hour last night with him telling us nothing and ignoring most questions
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Kara Spengler|Kara Spengler]]: Blondin is giving us the same old PR spin, not communicating
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Mavromichali Szondi|Mavromichali Szondi]]: yah, hyu ken all perheps attend other meetink see how dot goes eh.
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yep, that's Blondin
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, we've no plans to change the grandfathering on 195 regions
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Kira Welty|Kira Welty]]: How about the Physical address for Blondin's RL office in Boston?
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: and I also need a swap to some pg land as part of the move. how are you going to accomplish this?
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: We've been hearing the same thing, Kara.
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Danielle Eber|Danielle Eber]]: Answering once per 500 forum posts is not communicating very well
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Gah, you're killing me Jack
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:samatha Congrejo|samatha Congrejo]]: everyone points to Blondie and Blondie ignores the questions
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Wildefire Walcott|Wildefire Walcott]]: But why do you allow the transfer of grandfathered tier to other players? There is ZERO technical reason to allow that.
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: and closing a forum thread doesn't help either
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: :) sorry Elanthius.
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: About as useful as mammaries on a male mammal, he is.
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:samatha Congrejo|samatha Congrejo]]: even if he said no or we don't care or we are going to do nothing that is better than ignoring us
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Wildefire Walcott|Wildefire Walcott]]: Transferring a class 4 i can understand, but the class 5s?
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Hanley/205/218/25/?
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: and why dont you change the 195usd tier...i am they get teh same as the ones who pay 295
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Sorry that was Blondin's office for all the good it does: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Hanley/205/218/25/?
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: OH RL - doh! So sorry Kira!
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack i have a question about exectution of land movements. for mainland sims almsot totally owned by adult businesses such as cicero... why not move the entire sim?
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: The grandfathering was done as a recognition of those early adopters, and as it stands we are not changing that any time soon
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: when wil you let the entire population know about land changes and land impact of AO? also those countries where English isnt mother tongue?
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Erinyse, that's a possibility definitely
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: AC! Or the U-boat?
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Thought you said that was a landscaping nightmare last time that was asked jack
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Jack the point we're making is that the early adopters have a deal fine, buy do people who get islands transferred to them get that same deal? The reason for grandfathering disappears on transfer
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: I think the real issue, Jack, above all else, is that (1) Linden Lab doesn't communicate with the resident community well on some topics. The adult content changes is such a topic. (2) We are referred to this one or that one, but again, communication is poor. (3) No Linden employee has been assigned to the JIRA ticket, causing us to believe that you have no intention of addressing our concerns.
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Wildefire Walcott|Wildefire Walcott]]: They are not early adopters; most of them are younger than I am.
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: could you look into that? i own a 2048 and a 1024 and two clubs there make up most of the rest of that sim
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:samatha Congrejo|samatha Congrejo]]: POint is Jack your Lindens are all passing the buck or ignoring us and people are starting to leave now, sales are donw.. Dari left, a major maker, others are leaving, many have stopped creating and still no linden will stpe forward and actually answer questions, negative answers are better than being ignored
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Talarus is correct.
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: I dont know if you care but I got an invite to a new adult content mall this week that was on the mainland - the owner had never heard of Urusula or Adult filtering and English seemed to be his first language
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Uni, it's a nightmare if the region is mixed use or if we try to squash it into the adult continent. But if it's about spinning someone who owns all or almost all of a region into an island, we can do that
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: I mean they've saved what now, over two and half grand in tier fees and then they get a premium on selling their island because grandfathered status remains on transfer
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: These changes are a train wreck, but not just because we disagree with them. They are a mess because LL hasn't communicated properly (or much at all) about massive changes. They seem to not know what they are doing themselves...are they making it up as they go along?
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Putting a differently terraformed mainland region into the middle of the adult continent wouldn't work
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: Sir, i have a question i would llike clarified please?
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Wildefire Walcott|Wildefire Walcott]]: I could literally buy a nice RL car for the extra amount of money I've paid for my full tier class 5s that my competitors, who bought their grandfathered class 5s from the original purchasers now get to pocket.
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Ciaran: Yeah, it's making business very difficult for those of us not lucky enough to have dozens of super cheap sims. How can we compete with these guys?
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Reparata Nightfire|Reparata Nightfire]]: If thie issue of Adult Content Filtering isn't properly addressed by the Lindens, then I will be leaving Second Life and taking my virtual business elsewhere.
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: That's Blondin's job. To be to focus of resident questions, concerns, and ire over the Adult Content train wreck, and to continue to ignore the residents.
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: what if you bounces such sims to the edge of it or into their own cluster jack? Im not trying to be a pain, but i think doing so would save both LL and reidents $$
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]: Mr Linden many people i know are french and never heard of your project do you intend to translate for those people not to mantion other people of other foreigne languages
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: You and a LOT of other people, Reparata. :-/
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: For those businesses that are adult and communities which arent necessarily adult will all of the persons holdings be moved or just the adult portions?
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Reparata Nightfire|Reparata Nightfire]]: I've already opened an account on the 3rd Rock Grid
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: Can I have al your stuff? ?
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I'll buy your land for L$2/sm
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: 2.1
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Wildefire Walcott|Wildefire Walcott]]: =)
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Erinyse, it would look pretty awful if we did that. repairing that terrain when it is covered in builds would be almost impossible
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: and can you confirm that each parcel you hold doesn't have to contain adult content, just that you meet the criteria and can move up to your current holdings
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: 2.2
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Fine, how about a rac to see who can buy it fastest?
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Bid war! :P
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: well, mainland is only +- 20m isn't it? so it's not going to be that much of a sore thumb
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: ok for all you people going to drop out me and the rest of us sim owners will take all your stuff for free
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I believe there is much more communication planned for when the definitions are finalized, including Message Of The Day etc
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: honestly we dont care what it looks like we jsut arent going to move unless the sim is. we have way too much invested
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Most mainland is +-4m
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Mavromichali Szondi|Mavromichali Szondi]] heff to run to a meetink in RL dot iz ectually important. Goot day to hyu all.
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: careful, barons: it's probably Mature land... can't even advertise PG stuff there after this.
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: 1.5 and it's my final offer ! ?
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: then where's the problem
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:samatha Congrejo|samatha Congrejo]]: wonderful, we complain about getting ignored and get ignored, i am out of here
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack: The number of man hours involved in a move... will there be any compensation for the time you are requiring of those you will be moving?
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Oh yes you can Qie, in the classifieds tab
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: I will give you a special price for sim-in-a-box
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Kira Welty|Kira Welty]]: Jack can you give any reason to be optimistic about these changes at all, that LL actually cares about its current residents?
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: Sir, May i have an answer to my question please?
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: +/-4 on mainland mostly
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Couldbe, the idea here is to move the adult content, not move the land as such. If you own 20 parcels and one of them has an established business that is Adult in nature, then I don't think we would move all 20
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: But we'll be as fair and reasonable as we can, and be working with people to help them relocate
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: that's not what was said previously
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: oh, thanks Ciaran... I haven't got my head around classified in Classified vs classified in All, yet.
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]: well the change are coming fast you better move quickly on this mister Linden cause what you see here is not even close that what will happen when those people will realised how they have been treated
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: it was up to your current holdings
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: what of the smaller business owner
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: LindenLabs are terrible for getting detailed information out there. They always bury it where noone can find it
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]: 2 class citizen
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: with wording noone can make sense of
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: doesn't bother me, I can put my shops on everything I own
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: but it seems pointless
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: say they own 1/2 a sim and a couple of them arent attached since they bought it piece by piece?
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Samatha, no-one is ignoring you, I have IMs, notecards and open chat to answer. .and that means I do miss people
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: MrLinden what is the other 19 parcels are contributing their prims to the one adult parcel?
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: the proposed regulations are so subjective it's frightening when one considers the implications
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack what about the feeral court case that ruled ghettoization was discrimination? i believe it was in 6th circut?
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Still wondering how we're going to be compensated for the loss of our ability to use our land for adult content, when it was part of the value and intention of buying the land in the first place.
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: *federal
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack, forgive me for saying this, but it seems to me that Linden Lab has decided to make massive changes to people's businesses... but you don't have all the answers yet. Why announce these changes and do what feels like a rushed implementation when you don't have the answers to what seem like obvious questions?
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Mari Moonbeam|Mari Moonbeam]]: Seems to me that a comphrensive series of answers to a myriad of questions and concerns is needed and should be done by, no offense Jack , the final yea/nay sayer of LL. This drawn out process is hurting folks-land sales, and store sales--limbo isn't good, Peopel don't have to be here in SL-they want to be-but they just need the Rules of the Rad to make adjsutements and build and sell and live here. Assuming the "little guy/gal" is still wanted
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Mari Moonbeam|Mari Moonbeam]]: Road*
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: xantarius... to be fair... LL is getting pressure from the FCC and a few ultra conservative congressional leaders
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Crickett, as I've said before we would have to look at each situation. This is going to be a discussion but we are committed to being fair with all those affacted
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: *affected
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack, this feels like there is no one managing the project at a high level. Do you have a project manager on this, or is each group handling parts independently of the other groups?
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Honestly, folks, if you really want to hit the people who are in control, talk to Cyn, then to M.
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: cyn doesn't have office hours - well not that I know of
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Xantarius/Mari: I always wonder about that. Wold you rather not hear about it until a week befre it is implemented or hear a few months early when the plans aren't complete?
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: also call your congress man and tell them fcc has no business regulating the internet
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: i wouldnt call Congress 'a few'
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Or write an open letter...
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Yeah Jack isn't on the policy making process for this, although I stiull think he should be making more of a case for mixed use islands
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:McCall Ryder|McCall Ryder]]: Jack, It would sure help your users if you had a good writer talking plain language instead of programmese. "Pathcut" isn't English, "Cut outward from center" is.
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: M is where the buck stops, unless you want to send mail (regular snail mail) protests to Mitch Kapor himself.
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Kara Spengler|Kara Spengler]]: Erinyse: well, according to Blondin yesterday this is just LL being inept internally and nothing is coming from outside pressure :)
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Yeah, Cyn doesn't seem to have office hours. I'd have a word to say there about the darn word filter :(
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Phideaux Mayo|Phideaux Mayo]]: The Congressional Bill is buried
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: i suspect LL had no real idea of 80% of the difficulties and scenarios coming their way n this issue...but they know now
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Xantarius. that's a common question and all i can say is that given the two options of being told early and included in the discussion, or being told late and not being consulted.. every single time people have asked us to talk early
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]: Mister Linden is what way that will affect the work of the mentor no having acces to adult rated sim
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Cyn doesn't have office hours on purpose.
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: But that obviously means that not everything is finalized yet
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Talk "early"? O.o
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: and is it true sir that the property will cost up to 5x's what the current mainland is selling for?
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: A year into the process is hardly "early", Jack.
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: How long now and NOTHING is finalized?
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Mari Moonbeam|Mari Moonbeam]]: Thanks for teh 16m update Jack-is there more news -info you can share today?
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack you have allot of influence in LL. can you maybe try and get m and cyn to hold some actual meetings with residents?
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: McCall, I agree that language is really important.
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack, no one is saying tell us late... What we're saying is that before you open the discussion, have most common questions/situations thought through. That way, you can give three months or more notice of these massive changes and half the work (for you and us) is done already before notice is even given.
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Hey, you skipped talking about the traffic bot policy. How many bots have you banned? Got a graph for us?
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: neither do the Gteam Talarus - says it all really
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Kara Spengler|Kara Spengler]]: Jack: well, being told early but not being allowed to give input seems pretty pointless ..... beside, this has been in the works for 18 months according to Blondin
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Erinyse, there have been a number of those brown bag ones etc, but i'll certainly pass that on
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Two years ago they first blogged about extreme content and account verification
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Baba Yamamoto|Baba Yamamoto]]: [11:32] Erinyse Planer: child avi and disruptive bating in a mature sim. filing an ar
*[11:32] Baba Yamamoto: go fuck yourself
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: The problem is that you said, "We're moving all the adult stuff. no...we don't have details."
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: All with "Nothing final" as the answer
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: the brown bags dont feel as though anything gets answered Sir
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: This may be quite early, no dates have ben mentioned, pity if people are quiting and going off the handle 6 months too early
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Hey! I got AR'ed by Erinyse Planer too!!
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: then, when we ask questions, it's not a discussion...it's you and Blondin telling everyone asking that you dont know.
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Kara, how have you tried to give input? We've read all the forum posts and emails and notecards
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: The brown bgs are nonsense. A complete insult to everyone's intelligence.
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: i simply do not like the term "adult" i thin it is totally subjective. Further, i resent not being trusted to uncheck a mature box, read a sim description and being able to make my own descions.
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: lol Jack, you really didn't just ask that did you???
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: 18 months to come up with solution least aceptable solution to the most residents
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: The brown bag meeting transcripts mostly showed me that Lindens don't know how their own search works, sadly :/
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: ive spent hours listening to them and walked away feeling totally at a loss as to explain what i may have learned
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: Further, what happens to all of this land that becomes worthless when everone is forced onto LAGG island?
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack, you know about the JIRA ticket.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Darkstar, we've said that those terms are not ideal and we are looking for better alternatives. If you have thoughts on that do let us know
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Jack, people have asked questions repeatedly in the forums and office hours to which LL has never answered
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: yes.. PG & Mature..
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack, we are letting you know. Go read the JIRA ticket.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Jack I gotta call bullshit on that one - both you and Blondin have said you hadnt had time to read all the forum posts
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: I think people might appreciate a clarification update on the blog Jack and how things stand at the moment :)
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: WE HAVE GIVEN THOUHTS FOR WEEKS NOW JACK!
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: jack, I didn't see you answer my questions on the logistics of the move - there were 4 questions
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: maybe assign someone to the JIRA ticket
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: i think everyone agrees what mature means.. but.. is a Degas considerd Adult?
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: are you actually telling us that we are not participating i a discussion?
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Jack if you catch this: Ursula; Is it old server hardware or all brand new?
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: An alternative would be to change the mature content checkbox to a PG content checkbox and put the onus of saying a parcel is PG safe on the parcel owner, that would rid PG search of loads of adult terms
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Moon, by (we) I am not meaning just myself or Blondin. We as a company have read al the feedback
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Jack: any interest in LL for opening some of Ursula early as a site for an SL6B "Fringe Festival"? I'll rent it from you guys for L$1, if that makes it easier, and find some way to organize it.
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: AC Jira was voted to be closed
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: There is no way, sadly, that I could have read it all. I would have liked to but you guys write too fast. :)
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: Ultimately the decision is made by LindenLabs to do whatever they please.. any listening to you is so they can find ways to ease you into it but the plan goes ahead regardless :)
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Uni.. brand new
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Kara Spengler|Kara Spengler]]: Jack: we have tried through notecards, email, office hours, direct IM conversations, blog and forum posts on secondlife.com and elsewhere .... should we do registered mail instead maybe for communications?
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack: Have you (or anyone at LL) read the JIRA ticket on the adult content changes?
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I read it all in less than an hour a day.
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: it's down to about 4 pages a day now jack
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: This ticket: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-2727
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Qie.. haha that's an interesting idea!
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: has anyone at LL read it?
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: and all the feedback is this is insane. I would like to know if LL plans to buy my sim for the same $1,000 US dollars we paid for it, because we may have "adult" content?
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Jack: Thanks.. so perhaps i could go out on a limb and say "class 6"? Cause your gonna need to make that hardware fairly meaty for all the scripting....
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: and if so, why has no one been assigned to it?
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: ok seriously
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Jack, it could be good marketing, seriously.
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Kira Welty|Kira Welty]]: How will you avoid breach of contract if everyone who owns mature land isn't giving the option to swap, regardless of conditions of current land use?
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Xantarius, I know the project team will have. I read most of the longest Jira thread
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: ok...
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: so why hasnt anyone been assigned?
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Kara: I would
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Certified, RR requeted.
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: *requested
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: Thanks Kira, you just reminded me of something..
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: i think LL should have to buy back the land for the same price we have paid for it.. in REAL US dollars
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: One to Mark Kingdon, one to Mitch Kapor.
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Darkstar are you talking about an Island or Mainland?
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: Jack, would it be better if we organised a meeting in your office in brighton. a one on one may just clear a lot of this up
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: I mean rl here of course
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: this hasn't even been considered
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: the dmage this will do to the SL economy is evastating
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: CouldBe: Agreed! I can be there in an hour. You bring the pitchforks
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: Jack, Sir, is it true that you all still believe only 3-5% of SL is adult in nature and that is why you made ursualla too small to accomodate us all or is it that you know we are going to pay what we have to in order to preserve our way of life?
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Couldbe, I'm not based in Brighton
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: if someone farts it does devastating damage to the SL economy
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Though I could be there potentially.
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: I thought you were in the UK
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: I don't think they'd let me carry my pitchfork on the train
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I am in the UK, but not in Brighton
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: lol Ciaran, I'll carry mine too and we'll see if we can get a porter
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: well where are you jack? do you remote work or do you have an office somewhere else
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: i would revise your econimic predictions downward for the coming year by at least half.. land owners, shop owners.. this is a travesty, and it truy is counter to the spirit of SL in being able to create your own vision, at the end of the day this is cencorship of the highest order.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: I'm pretty prepared to travel. England is a small place
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: thanks for working overtime Jack....
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: It'll take me a bit longer to get to Newcastle, but come to Nottingham Jack and it's nice and central - most UK residents could be there in a couple of hours
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Crickett, not quite. We surveyed the Mainland (not Islands, they are different) and found that the number of parcels with clearly adult material was relatively low.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: I have a Popeils pocket Pitchfork
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: Further, when i DO encounter someting i find truly ofensive, what i would REALLY like
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I think around 4% or so
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: is to not have to try 15 times to tp away
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: That was fine Jack until keyword search became an issue
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Hey Jack, someone who knows many Lindens, an insider, very influential, said at the beginning of this meeting tha LL are considering leaving Homesteads at US$95 a month. Confirm or deny!
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: Clearly adult? As the proposed rules stand, a poster of Bob Marley smoking a spliff is adult!
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: That's when it all went Pete Tong
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: The Ursula continent is not too small, it can expand as far as we want to expand it. But the terrain as prepared is 200-240 regions or so I think. Last time i looked
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Probably works from his home office. :D
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: he will not confirm that here elan lol
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: it's actually a mainland sim
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: lol but Darkstar, that's the predicatble user experience.. doesn't work as planned, but supposedly it's what the users want
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: But we'l only be putting 50-70 up at first, as we see how it goes
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Jack ive seen a number 320 ir so appear :)
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: I saw some offline Ursulas numbered in the 300s yesterday
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: CLEARLY ADULT amybe but then the definition changed from ~EXTREME to all sexual activity.......that s way more than 2-4%
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: I need a full one, me, one person
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: last time you looked??? ***YOU** are supposedly in charge of the land for this mess
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Wynochee LeShelle|Wynochee LeShelle]]: 399
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Guys, all of you that are IMing me and dropping notecards - I'm just not able to reply to all those while talking to the group, apologies
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: so Jack, when do you go to brighton or is there an office closer to you where we can meet?
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: I mean saying this policy isn't about preventing people selling sex beds on mature land and then filtering the word sex to adult only moves the goalposts on extreme content somewhat
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Phideaux Mayo|Phideaux Mayo]]: Please give jack a chance to respond
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: I apologize Jack if you answered this question already (I probably missed your reponse)... What happens to those who do not move? Will you come knocking at their doors? Will you shut them down if they still refuse after you ask them to move? if they refuse to move, and you ask them to move, how long will they have?
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: pesonally i find violence far more offensive than sexual content. But, i am curious.. i work in the fashion indistry in sl.. we had a show of a very big, very wel know designer, a lingerie designer.. is that show now considered "adult?"
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Sorry elanthius, didn't see that comment about homesteads fly by, must have missed it
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: They claim they will offer a friendly warning
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: and then what?
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: It's odds on that homesteads won't go up in price, if gambling were allowed it would be too short priced for me to bother to bet on it
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: how long will people have to move?
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Reparata Nightfire|Reparata Nightfire]]: This whole Adult Content Filtering issue is nothing more than internet censorship, which I absolutely oppose!
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Couldbe... we have a large team that handles this stuff, and they are working on it all the time
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Can i hazard a guess theyll kick your ass out and put the parcel on the auction site?
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Oh, let me guess theanswer...THEY DONT KNOW
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: No the people who did move will dob them in of course like gambling clubs did to each other ?
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Agreed Reparata, that's why no-one uses facebook or Craigslist anymore
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Well... I wish we could say that this has been informative. I'll call a vote and ask if those here protesting think it has been. Anyone?
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Phideaux Mayo|Phideaux Mayo]]: Nay
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: nothing has happened on ursula for a couple of weeks
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: No
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Medusa Torok|Medusa Torok]]: confused.com
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Hmm, well, Ill throw my question out. What are my assurances I wont be stuck in a sim with an equally popular club that drives us both out of business?
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Xantarius you're posing questions to the wrong guy, give him a break
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: except the trial load of another 150 sims
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Reparata Nightfire|Reparata Nightfire]]: It has been nothing but a bunch of doubletalk, Xan
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: Very!
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: I doubt it. I've allready seen a case of one SINGLE linden tping to a PRIVATE sim, banning about 12 or so accounts, including the sim owner, shutting the sim down with no recourse. The big deal is there was no TOS volaction and no recourse to appieal it. A Lindon cleanly abusing there power for som moral goal..
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Xantarius, I presume that if someone doesn't move their adult business and continues operating it outside of the adult continent, then it'll eventually be dealt with like any other violation
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: They cant raise the price on Homesteads, they havent advertised that they will increase the price so people have bought them unaware.. they cant lie to people
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Chaley they advertised the price rise in November
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: I remain concerned about a) Lindens ability to contain information even the u.s. government and banks like citcorp can't keep private and
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Right, Jack, but how long will they have to move after a warning?
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: It takes time to move a business, you know?
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack them move the sims with the most adult content. but again... when 6th circut ruled another game couldnt ghetto their adult content do you think sl can?
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Oh, ah, yes *thinks hard about Scarlet Linden's abuse of power
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Reparata Nightfire|Reparata Nightfire]]: LL is getting to be just as bad as the US government when it comes to taking away people's rights!
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Hmm, I didn't realise everyone was so certain the price wouldn't rise. I've been pretty much banking on it.
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: Ciaran new people wasnt here in november.. it would have to be advertised with the prices when people buy the island
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: they can chaley...they can lol
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: b) what guarantees do the lindens give of this information never being stolen
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: remember, that we're not focussing this policy change on every single piece of adult content, it's about the more commercialised, businesses or services that are adult
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Well yeah Chaley I asked them to do that through December too, agree with you there
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: the only guarantee you have is if you sign off now and never come back, the entire problem will then be resolved for you
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: Age verification doesn't work - at least not reliably out of the USA
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: reparata, that's the third point here too.....
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: those are the ones that if they wish to keep advertising and trading in adult goods will need to move
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: Jack *should* know this, being a brit
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Kira Welty|Kira Welty]]: [11:36] Kira Welty: How will you avoid breach of contract if everyone who owns mature land isn't giving the option to swap, regardless of conditions of current land use?
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Yes but a hell of a lot of people will be sending in tickets, how can you deny them a swap?
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: if as a private individual you have a sex bed in the attic, then this policy won't impact you
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: age verification doesn't work in the US either. lol
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: There is no such thing as online "age verification".
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: Makes sense to me unsless some one can explain why non-adult businesses need the word sex in their advertising?
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: LindenLabs seem to have policys which deceive their own customers.. Noone has confidence in them nomore
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: If they ask to move they should get to move?
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Do you feel even a little nervous that there might be more swaps than you can comfortably do? More tha 300 sims say.
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: free
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Well I can explain to you why PG businesses need the word "tits" in their advertising, Tegg
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: A lot of those attic sex people will WANT to move
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: and how can you deny then a swap of all their holdings when you are focing them to move businesses that have been in place for many years?
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: And yet, were all here using the service, Chaley
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]] Laughs 2Jack id keep my sex bed in er the BEDROOM not the bloomin attic XD
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: c) They are requiring the provising of information where not everyone is paying, this means not everyone is subject to a 3rd party obligation for using the service here irrespective of the TOS itself. As long as there is a free player base, SL is imposing a requirement upon the public to have access in the same manner as a government.
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack what about the 6th circut ruling that said online games can't ghetoize adutl content becuase its discrimination?
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: they haven't such a right
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: it isn't *just* about sex, it's also about art and a host of other things, the sex just get the "moral majority" hot and bothered
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Link, Erinyse?
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: WTFm citation needed Erinyse
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: Elan they will just fire up the printing presses again and poof out comes another 5 continents for the perverts
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: Marianne there is no service comparable to it and is maybe why they know they can get away with it
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: Only if this were a private access such as rotary or odd fellows club, free masons, etc. can they make such impositions on users
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: Ah is the word art banned in advertising too then?
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Danielle Eber|Danielle Eber]]: Legal questions should be addressed to Marty Linden, general counsel
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: what about the combat sim? i was having a long discussion with a friend whom own a RP sim havent really thought about it since last night
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yohan: I suppose ,whe land is nearly free to buy and the main income is from tier it's safe to give away as much as you like
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Wow, they have a server printing machine? I gotta get me one of those! :D
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, it's possible that there are way more adult businesses than either the land surveys or the detailed Search data shows but i'm not sure how we'd have missed them if that is true. But if that were the case we would have to extend the timeperiod and add mor bodies to help move people
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Does hehold office hours?
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: but wehre the users aren't subject to any sort of consideration to constitute an agreement, they are merely tresspassing on privacy rights
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: from the way the proposed rules read, the statue of david would be banned from a pg sim
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Danielle Eber|Danielle Eber]]: The current KB6010 would prohibit showing a disney cartoon on PG land
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: Jack do the lindens really want the corporate risk exposure of lawsuits for invasion of privacy?
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: so nude artworks arent allowed in PG?
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Firehorse, no it wouldn't
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Oh Jack, so you're prepared to promise you'll give land t every legitimately adult business? Before there were hints it would be limited to 50 sims or so and then everyone who was too late was just screwed. Or not screwed since it's PG now
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: hahahhaha
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: the statue of david isn't an adult oriented service or business operating on the Mainland.
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: :)
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Reparata Nightfire|Reparata Nightfire]]: LL has opened up a whole pandora's box of issues concerning art, freedom, etc. by pursuing this Adult Content Filtering plan
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Erotic art is covered though Jack
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: what about other nude art, Jack? is this where photorealism comes into play?
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Not that I'm saying I find the statue of David erotic
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: as is nudity
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: It is if it is in a pay-to-access museum, or one that advertises something for money
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: sex bed businesses werent part o the original planned move but thy have to goif they want otherwise they can become free sex rooms
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]: well if they sell it. It becoe one i think mister Linden
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: having seen the real thing, it's a pretty "photorealistic" portrail of nudity
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, we're not limiting it in that way, that wouldn't be fair at all. If someone has a legitimate claim to being in that business then they wil get a free move
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Ciaran: It's those enormous hands and feet that do it for me.
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: and how do you not know that photorealisitc is used to describe a certain type of skin?
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jack: Awesome news!
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: Jack I repeat, why are the lindens taking on this responsibility instead of leaving it to the sim owners themselves, who pay consideration to SL for a sim, where requriments of an adequate means of determining the age and thereby access to their matieral is their responsibility?
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: how long will the get to set up jack?
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]: That meen no more art exibite for the poor little Thopel cause most of them seel there art too
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Define "legitimate claim".
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: If David isn't an issue, why did Carl Metropolitan get ARd over something similar?
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: keep in mind the average business takes between 2 weeks and a month to build
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: my understanding is that erotic art, that is clearly art, is not going to have to move
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: See, that is where it gets sticky.
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Pardon the pun.
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: Maybe one day they will have rules to ban avatars from wearing a skirt and no underwear :)
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: "that is clealr art!!!???""
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: I think the question was whether erotic art is PG or Mature, Jack, not whether it's adult
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: Is the statue David PG or G or C then?
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Echo Underwood|Echo Underwood]]: Depends... it "has" been deepmed naughty in the past. Who get's to decide what is "clearly art"?
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: and who in the name of GOD makes THAT detrmination
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: this is an impossible definition
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Walter, not sure i understand the question
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: SL should nto be pursuing this against the mass of users but instead solely as an imposition on the sim owners, thus assuring the legitimacy of the sim owners, a smaller group and less likely to bring a class action against the lindens for violations of privacy
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: if so ill be in big trouble chaley
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: is mapelthore "Real" aret?
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Darkstar asked the question I was typing. lol
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: Mosley, go bite Jack for me.. he still hasn't answered the questions about the logistics..
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Reparata Nightfire|Reparata Nightfire]]: LL is trying to play God, and it's going to v=backfire bigtime on them!
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Siighs and so it begins.... that statue is pervy.... AR AR AR
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Why can't we all apply for a move? Seriously, plenty of folks would rather be on adult land than mature now even private residence as the goalposts are being moved they're not convinced their private activities won't be denied at a later date and would rather be on account verified land. They thought mature was the adult place
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Couldbe, I have no idea, I'm not familiar with that case
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: the question is jack
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: and what happens if LL is bought by a fundamentalist religious group?
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: and doesnt clean up SL or make it PREDICTABLE
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: why do you want the liability exposure?
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: if you offload taht liability exposure to the sim owners
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: not that question.. the ones about the move
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Firehorse - and what if I build a man out of straw?
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: and thus assure you have fine sim owners
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: you mitigate any sort of liability issues for sl
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: and are able to market that as a positive aobut sl
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: instead of be hit with this negtive of imposition on the entier citizenry
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Firehorse, that is the best question of the day hehe
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: as though hugo chavez
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I think they have been already.
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: 60% of residents are not in the USA - jet this *seems* to be about apeasing an american morality which I am assured is a minority, if loud
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack whats to proect business that get looked at by one gteam member and told "youre fine" from having another gteam member come through a month later and deem the same content a violation?
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: SCientology?
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Or may be grooming to be bought by one, or IPO. :D
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Walter, in terms of islands that is up to the estate owners. for Mainland the estate owner is us
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: right jack and
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Magnet Homewood|Magnet Homewood]]: in the last few minutes of this meeting I would like to say I think Jack has really earnt the right to have a cold beer tonight, and I really hope he enjoys it, whatever the outcome of the changes are :)
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: firehorse. im american, im moderately conservative, and this policy offends me for what its worth.
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: jack that means you take ont he liability for privacy intrusion if any of these records get lost
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: So within our estate, we are putting some separation between commercial adult content and everything else
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: But the US Gov is in the USA with the servers and LL's business offices
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: Jack, with all due respect.. the us supreme court has taken on this challenge, what makes LL belive it has the skill, the right, quite frankly to make a dtermination of what constitues "real" a see no real need to change. We are all supposedly 18+ on the main grid. Sims are classified mature and PG, there is a sim description and a mature checkbox.. for the love of God! Trust us as adults to make up our own minds
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: What does being conservative have to do with it? :P
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: If he'd answer the question on why it's fair to still keep grandfathered status on class 5 sims when they are transferred I'd buy him a beer myself!
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Can't really trust them, DarkStar ... but the question remains, why didn't they just enforce those old /current rules
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: what does God have to do with it
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: jack if citibank can lose 35,000,000 records, if the u.s. army and social security can do the same, how can you guarantee there is no privacy infringement by your requests for information from non paying customers?
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Just as on the high street the adult stors have blackened windows, so that only those specifically wanting that content enter.. we are just providing that separation
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: if someone wants to avaiod "adult" content leave the mature box unchecked and see 1/10th of what Sl has to offer
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Echo Underwood|Echo Underwood]]: Might I suggest one point however, LL *is* a US company,and sbject tot the laws of the US and California. One writ from a judgecould shut SL down in ten minutes. The real question is, how far does Linden Labs feel it needs to go to stay on the right side of teh law?
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: I'll second that Ciaran
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: jack what guarantee can you give that there will be no 3rd party theft of inforamtion?
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: uh jack
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack: What prompted Linden Lab to make these changes? What's the official answer on that?
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: theres nooo way you can make that analagoy work
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: sorry
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: The local adult video store here doesn't have "blackened windows".
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: and agian i ask
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: then why not allow us to monitor ourselves the same way?
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Walter: what information? You age verify using payment info, same info you've been giving for years
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: Jack, no guarantee, you own the liability and if any record whatsoever is stolen I'll see ya in court
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Reparata Nightfire|Reparata Nightfire]]: The US law is corrupt anyway. Why would ANYONE want to stay on the "right" side of it?
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: What percentage of sims are now classified "mature" and what percentage PG?
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Oh dear oh dear, Jack, if you think this is bad, just wait until its officially announced
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: That would be parcel level controls and public decency on outside advertising, something I'm very much in favour of
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: omg define whats commercial and what isnt now...
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Darkstar, that age issue isn't the point here. many 18 year olds and older do not want to see that material and if they do, they would prefer to see it when they choose to, not when their neighbour wants them to
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: Any idea if they will fix the verification system so I can't verify disposable alts with random numbers and addresses?
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: whats to protect us from having one gteam member say our business is fine and another from banning us for a violation?
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Wynochee LeShelle|Wynochee LeShelle]]: no black windows where i live, Jack:-)
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Doesn't have many windows to begin with (too many people want to break in and steal stuff rather than pay for it), but what windows it has aren't blackened.
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack... not many
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: a FEW
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: you are focsued on sexually oriented issues.. violence, gore.. fine
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Darkstar, traditionally I think around 15% of regions were set to PG on the Mainland
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: and those are the same ones that go tping to adult businesses and whining
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: so if it's not an age issue then why require identifying information that can be stolen and use to compare against other databases? Do you really believe linden labs operates in a vacuum?
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Danielle Eber|Danielle Eber]]: Mainland is about 70% Mature
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: I, for example. Which is why I bought PG land. Why would I expect anyone on mature land not to show adult content?
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: Lindens have all the bases covered.. They dont care if some of you leave or abandon lands.. This just means another quick profit when they resell it
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: LL have said this move is to please a minority of residents, so WHY?
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Opensource Obscure|Opensource Obscure]]: windows are blackened here. we're doing daily riots about this here.
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: Why ignore the majority
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack, if they don't want to see this sort of material...can't they just go PG? Why have mature land if you don't want to see mature things? you guys are inventing problems that don't exist. Move the small minority of people who don't want to see mature/adult content, not the rest of us.
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: :) Wynochee
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: OK.. if 70% mature.. what does that tell you?
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: (Of course being on PG land never protected me either, since it was rarely enforced.)
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Walter, it cannot be stolen, that isn't true. We don't keep that data
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We check, then we discard it
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: it WAS stolen
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: I cant frigging wait until LL announces this! *she shouts quietly
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: from yoru verifyer
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: and it was SOLD
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: by your verifyer
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: [11:17] Couldbe Yue: ok. then 1. have you set a window for the move 2. have you a date to open the move list 3. will we be able to increase land holdings as part of the move by buying directly from you as part of the changeover
*[11:17] Couldbe Yue: and of course if yes 4. how much will the land be per sq m
*[11:19] Couldbe Yue: and I also need a swap to some pg land as part of the move. how are you going to accomplish this?
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]: Yeah on many time in survey i complain about the lack of inforcement in PG land
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: I can say fuck here due to sim setting is mature, but I can expose a breast? (If i was female)
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Xantarius, because PG land is totallyintermingled with Mature land on the Mainland
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: just move ...
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: can'=can't
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: jack, just do not require identifying information of public users, free users, you'll be violating our privacy because it is an unnecessary gathering of private information, meaning, I derive no benefit from you taking my information, nothing of mine is protected.
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: so jack why not make a pg contentinet instead?
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: cheaper
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: easier
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Atechwolf, yes you could, this is a mature region
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Right, Jack...so why don't you create a 'G' continent?
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: much easier
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: though might not be ideal for an office hour
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: :)
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: because disney is not the problem
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: aside from the fact jack that many people feel the ss number is the "mark of the beast" the same people you say dont' want to see adult material, and they will not use any portion of that number
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Kira Welty|Kira Welty]]: Why do you insist on keeping unverified access to Mature regions?
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Danielle Eber|Danielle Eber]]: Breakdown of current regions by Ownership and Classification:
*
* * Estate - Adult: 1
* * Estate - Mature: 17955
* * Estate - Offline: 8
* * Estate - PG: 3441
* * Linden - Adult: 7
* * Linden - Mature: 3982
* * Linden - PG: 1421
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: that would be like segregating a city & letting a smutty red light district take over.... not going to happen
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: i mean if 0% of mainland it mature, private sims must be even higher, therefore it stands to reason that a majority, a fra greater majority of residents "tolerate" mature content
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Opensource Obscure|Opensource Obscure]]: <insert epic facepalm here>
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: PG continent easier than hiding adult on mainland
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: see jack it's their right to their sincerely held religious beliefs, and you'd be requireing them to violat them by providing such identifying information to you
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: sorry you are
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: The benefit of verifying is supposed to be knowing that real people are respossible for an accounts actions, tht they are not disposible alts
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: you cannot guarantee every cache is empty in between
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: every router
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Walter, we are not gathering information, no part of it is kept. we're asking only for that check *if* you choose to view that adult content
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: every access
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: a police officer was kileld becuase your verifying company SOLD her information
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: age verification is being forced into law in the uk.
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: so please don't tell me you aren't gathering information
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Whoa
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]] bounces gellfully, "oh oh oh and the MOVE team gets to hear all of this over and over and over and over !
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: you cannot at all guarantee they wont sell anyone elses
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack, you are saying that a small minority of people wanted this. Fine. Create a new continent for them. Why do this to businesses that are already established? This is massive. It's a lot of work you don't need to be doing, and a lot of headache the business owners don't need. The reason question is this: are you doing this because you are merging the TEEN GRID into the adult grid????
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: The adult verification also still won'T work for everyone (it still won't verify me with my correct and truthful info)
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: behave yourselves here
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: *epic eye roll*
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: lol
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]] wonders what an "epic" facepalm would look like, and wonders if it will be repeatable enough for the coming months. :P
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: listen to erinyse jack?
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Walter, if they don't wish to verify then they can enjoy the many thousands of regions that are not adult, as much as they wish
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: do you hear tht one?
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: these folks are way louder than those pesky tree huggers who used to come harass you eh jack
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: JUst wait until they anounce it! *she hollers in a whisper
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jack, if it's not about age verifying then why do we need to be PIOF to see adult material? Surely you should just allow people to choose to be Adul regardless of whether they are paying or not.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: you can't guarnatee it isn't being taken in between
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: bah.. we were lots more vocal. :D
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Good point, Elanthius
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Yohan - this has nothing on the S.O.S. folks who papered the front of the building
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Xantarius, this has nothing to do with the TG which we've stated many times. The TG has no bearing on this at all
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: looks what good that did...
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: The SOS thing was so short lived though.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We have no plans to merge grids
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: the last time people was protesting against age verification people was setting themselves on fire :)
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: Save our Sex?
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: jack the point is that they enjoy that now and appreciate the freedom, what you propose is to take that away and expect them to stay, they haven't any need to verify with you, your imposing a unilateral demand on them even when they are a free public player, you are exceeding the demands of government
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: I wish you guys would crowd in a little more. It's hard to get decent mob scenes when you're so spread out.. /me grins :)
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Merging the grids is evens money, give it 12 months
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: You have no plans Jack but ill bet you 20 quid your thinking it....
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Lindin Lindman|Lindin Lindman]]: Thank you Jack, that is reassuring to hear
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Then, Jack... We just don't understand (maybe cause all LL has told us is that a small minory wants this).
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Where is this minority? Are they here now?
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: The real issue here is censorship and the term adult is totally subjective.. TOTALLY.. what i find offensive will be dfferant from everyone else here. "offensive content" is IMPOSSIBLE to define because every individual defines it differantly..
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: and tell that minority to go to the teen grid
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Are they attending several office hours per week, as we intend on doing?
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: and I am an adult, so if I find something offence I leave...
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: this is about choice not discrimination
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack why wotn LL handel its own age verification? many people would feel more comfortable to get it out fromt he sleezy company you ahve handeling it now
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: we want our customers to have the choice over what their second lives are. and whether they view adult material is a choice every resident should be able to make for themselve
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Saying "there are no plans or a part of this plan to merge the TG with the AG" is nigh upon meaningless, since the timeframe "at the moment" is not qualified, and can simply be hand-waved away as a separate policy later.
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: *s
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Yes, because sending adults into a teen-only space is such a good idea, Tumble
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]] winks
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Catering to some small minority of small-minded Puritans is a waste of time. The adult businesses are bringing in more cash monthly to you than some guy with a small parcel and his home on it.
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Erinyse payment info on file with Linden Lab gives you account verification
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: [11:17] Couldbe Yue: ok. then 1. have you set a window for the move 2. have you a date to open the move list 3. will we be able to increase land holdings as part of the move by buying directly from you as part of the changeover
*[11:17] Couldbe Yue: and of course if yes 4. how much will the land be per sq m
*[11:19] Couldbe Yue: and I also need a swap to some pg land as part of the move. how are you going to accomplish this?
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: why don't you have a lawyer in attendance like they do at the BBs and at that press conference
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: that's a side issue because they are claiming not to gather information when in fact a verifying company aliready misused it by selling it, meaning someone is collecting information and the lindens either didnt' know, or assumed no liability because it's another party
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: Snuff Out Smut?
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: Yes I would feel more comfortable giving my RL details to LL as I already have anyway being premium
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Just ajoke, ort of*she mumbles
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: personllt naked bodies aren't really all that offensive.. i look at oe every day in the morror and another one when he wakes up.. they are all kinda the same.. nipple har.. big freakin deal
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: right but many of us haven't and
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: appreciate the privacy
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Premium members are will all be verified
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Okay folks, I have to run to my next meeting. And I have no fingers left. :)
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: and now it's going to be violated for no good reason but
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: If you're premium you don't need to give anyone any more info
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: i woud remind you that we all have one of those.. in rl
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: that deadline is passing ciaran
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: Jack, do you think Age Verification and Payment Info on file is enough to keep a determined teen from accessing adult content? Its almost giving a license to those teens who get verified to enter the adult zones freely
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: a bunch of assumptions and claims of groups asking for soemthing
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: lol I am not a puritan but I would be totally pissed off if a Sex Shop opened up next to me in rl
</div></div>

<div id='box' style='text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em;'>
Generated by [http://kuraiko.zeitenwerk.de/wikify.php SL Chatlog Wikify]
</div>

[[Category:Jack_Linden_Office_Hours]]

User:Elanthius Flagstaff

2009-05-15T11:19:38Z

Elanthius Flagstaff:

==About Me==
[http://world.secondlife.com/resident/1117dbc5-c005-40ca-8b59-5b51f96d1b7b Elanthius Flagstaff] runs a huge mainland flipping operation, probably the largest in SL.

You can contact me if you want to [http://world.secondlife.com/place/4e55cc5f-d425-8a6b-0134-3436f60123fc Rent Land], [http://world.secondlife.com/place/4e55cc5f-d425-8a6b-0134-3436f60123fc Buy Land], or [http://world.secondlife.com/place/4e55cc5f-d425-8a6b-0134-3436f60123fc Abuse Search]

{{Jira Reporter}}

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-05-14

2009-05-14T20:24:48Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: /* List of Attendees */

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-05-14

2009-05-14T20:23:46Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: New page: <div id='box'> == List of Attendees == <div style='padding: 0.5em'> *TumbleWeed Loopen *Erinyse Planer *[[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]...

<div id='box'>
== List of Attendees ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]
*[[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]
*[[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]
*[[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]
*[[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]
*[[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]
*[[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]
*[[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]
*[[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]
*[[User:Hank Sicling|Hank Sicling]]
*[[User:Rysan Fall|Rysan Fall]]
*[[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]
*[[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]
*[[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]
*[[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]
*[[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]
*[[User:Cuddlebug Clowes|Cuddlebug Clowes]]
*[[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]
*[[User:Lindin Lindman|Lindin Lindman]]
*[[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]
*[[User:Wildefire Walcott|Wildefire Walcott]]
*[[User:Dementor Neiro|Dementor Neiro]]
*[[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]
*[[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]
*[[User:Mari Moonbeam|Mari Moonbeam]]
*[[User:Mavromichali Szondi|Mavromichali Szondi]]
*[[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]
*[[User:samatha Congrejo|samatha Congrejo]]
*[[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]
*[[User:Reparata Nightfire|Reparata Nightfire]]
*[[User:Kara Spengler|Kara Spengler]]
*[[User:Kira Welty|Kira Welty]]
*[[User:Danielle Eber|Danielle Eber]]
*[[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]
*[[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]
*[[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]
*[[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]
*[[User:McCall Ryder|McCall Ryder]]
*[[User:Phideaux Mayo|Phideaux Mayo]]
*[[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]
*[[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]
*[[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]
*[[User:Wynochee LeShelle|Wynochee LeShelle]]
*[[User:Medusa Torok|Medusa Torok]]
*[[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]
*[[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]
*[[User:Echo Underwood|Echo Underwood]]
*[[User:Magnet Homewood|Magnet Homewood]]
*[[User:Opensource Obscure|Opensource Obscure]]
|
]]
*[[User: * Estate - Adult: 1
| * Estate - Adult: 1
]]
*[[User: * Estate - Mature: 17955
| * Estate - Mature: 17955
]]
*[[User: * Estate - Offline: 8
| * Estate - Offline: 8
]]
*[[User: * Estate - PG: 3441
| * Estate - PG: 3441
]]
*[[User: * Linden - Adult: 7
| * Linden - Adult: 7
]]
*[[User: * Linden - Mature: 3982
| * Linden - Mature: 3982
]]
*[[User: * Linden - PG: 1421
| * Linden - PG: 1421
]]
</div></div>

<div id='box'>
== Transcript ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: "At ease, pets" ;-)
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: be itnresting to see if the idiot actually shows up this week....
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: hi Talarus
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Pets? O.o
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Ah man, drama last week and I missed it?
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: I'm right here! .. hehehehe
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Greetings, xstorm :)
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Hmm, a viuctim of SL violence Diamond?
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Drama is guarantted every week
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: please do not call hard working people idiots
*[10:51 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: i dont. i call jack one
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: trust me hes not hard working...
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: do not call jack one please
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: now bridie
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: twilight
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: q
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yikes, little aggressive Erinyse
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: their hard working
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: and smart
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: I think the sim is going to fill up - looks like another meeting
*[10:52 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: I think its protesters getting ready to come on over here actually
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Though of course I could be wrong
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: their camped up by his office
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Hi folks
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]] was playing with my cam
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Oh a protest? How droll. What are they protesting? Bot thing?
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Hi again
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: uni!
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: theres a sign up there btw
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: hi Uni :-)
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: so yeah, the sign up there where the picketers are says he's out this week
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: elanthius their protesting the ghetto
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Adult content filtering
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Came to the wrong place then, it has hardly anything to do with Jack
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: christ there a bit late picketing
*[10:53 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: haha
*[10:54 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: you kidding me elanthius?
*[10:54 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: it has aLLOT to do with jack
*[10:54 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: the Adult content is inplace and working fine
*[10:54 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: He just works for customer service or something, nothing to do with policy like this
*[10:54 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: did you miss its openting ?
*[10:54 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: um hes one of the policy makers at LL
*[10:54 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Didnt he try to say that last week?
*[10:54 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: OK, believe what you like
*[10:54 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I don't generally call people "idiots"; I call their words and actions "idiotic" at times, but unless it is the normal, expected situation, even smart people can act idiotic without actually being idiots. ;)
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: He tried to say that the U project wasnt a land issue or something
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: elanthius... Jack is one fo the peopel on the team that does ALL the policy making
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Havent they figured out picketing didnt have any effect with the openspace debackle it sure as hell aint gonna work this time
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I guess I just assumed he wasn't involved since he has been almost completely uninvolved and most of the time doesn't even really know anything about it.
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:Hank Sicling|Hank Sicling]] checks to make shure his cock is hidden....
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Well it gives them something to do
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Not sure if they have figured out anything, they kept calling me a dog
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: nope *GIGGLES* :)[[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]] 20:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Actually, it had a major effect with openspaces
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:Rysan Fall|Rysan Fall]]: I was saying the same thing not too long ago
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: hi Tegg
*[10:55 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]] grumbles, Tal, where's the other dragon?"
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Rysan Fall|Rysan Fall]]: the open source protests were a farce
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: Hi All
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Maybe Jack is playing mind games with us by just pretending not to know anything about it
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Instead of Homesteads being $125 out of the gate, they got to be $95 for 6 months (at least)
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: dessie
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: uni it got them to do the price hike in steps and to add an entire new class of servers
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: and theres talk at LL of keeping the homesteads at 95
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: That is a good point
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: instead of hiking them
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: you look good to day Uni
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Dunno, Tumble. He'll be here shortly I think
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Erinyse : talk within LL or just random nobodies begging for it?
*[10:56 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: thanksies
*[10:57 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Just finished making a writing animation for my typing AO
*[10:57 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: within ll
*[10:57 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: great work
*[10:57 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: So you have secret inside information then Erinyse?
*[10:57 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: tyty :)
*[10:57 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: i have allot of lindens i talk to regularly
*[10:57 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: one of the benifits of being a volunteer
*[10:57 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: So whats this about land image i got?
*[10:58 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: How comes you didn't know Jack wasn't involved in AO then?
*[10:58 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: do you now
*[10:58 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: I knwo jack is in ao
*[10:58 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: you talk to lots Linden ?
*[10:58 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: xstorm look at my groups.
*[10:58 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: so ?
*[10:58 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: two of them are linden owned volunteer groups
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Right, CLUB CLEOPATRA, well known Linden hangout
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]] nods in the direction of CouldBe, "Greetings"
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: i interact with those lindens almsot daily
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: thats nice
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: bsi
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: battery street irregulars
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: linden owned
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: i have never seen one linden
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]] smiles at TumbleWeed and waves
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: i am part of triage...
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: *GIGGLES* :)[[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]] 20:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
*[10:59 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: You've seen Jack! :p
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: That's one
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: are you now
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: yes i am
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: yes but jack is not one
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: He's not a Linden? O.o
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack is a linden
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: This is why LL shouldn't encourage this nonsense, gives people delusions of grandeur
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: greetings, Jack
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: They should give out prizes and ribbons instead ;)
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: no jack is not one he is more then one *GIGGLES* :)[[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]] 20:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: hi hi Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]] rolles eyes
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Hi Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hi hi!
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: hey qie
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: heya Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: hi jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Might wanna not go upstairs...
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hmm lots of people up in my office today!
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Cuddlebug Clowes|Cuddlebug Clowes]]: hi jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: lynch mobs waiting upstairs jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: "And there he is, the lovely and talented, Jaaaaaack Linden!
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: It's safer down here. They called me a dog up there!
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I'm annoyed I'm gonna miss the excitement. Can't see anything but text on my crappy laptop
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yeah.. there are a bunch of folks at your "office" :P
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: Jack some of them have there claws out
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: there we go
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]] shouts: Jack's office hour is held in the Lobby (for those up in his office)!
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: god help you jack
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: heh
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: noobs
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: crude but effective!
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: You're a brave, brave man Jack
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Aww... now you've done it! :P
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: THis is going to be good!
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Lindin Lindman|Lindin Lindman]] shouts: Thanks Jack! *Laughs*
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: just godlike teleport them here Jack
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: Lol, they may have been up there for half the meeting if you hadn't said anything ?
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]] shrugs and waits
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Better sit down for when the pushing starts
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Anyone pushes me, they get et
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: zomg dont takes away the prim wangs... XD
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Where's the other bookend, Tal?
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Tempt not the dragon! ... for you are crunchy and good with ketchup!
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: if i sit on anyone, please accept my apologies
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: *GIGGLES* :)[[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]] 20:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Wildefire Walcott|Wildefire Walcott]]: ao off
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack ild like to im you about something that i dont want public if i may?
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: That old excuse
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Lindin Lindman|Lindin Lindman]]: Thanks Jack, we saw your sign and thought you were away
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: Xantarius Cain your way to late put it away your side lost
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Wildefire! Hi, is Jill Winger!
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: he just wanted to sit on Timos lap
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: xstorm please stop being dsiruptive
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Wildefire Walcott|Wildefire Walcott]]: oh hey jill!
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: i need to get that glass sign fixed up there, never seem to get around to it hehe
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Dementor Neiro, please get off me!
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Oh good grief it's a protest
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: So? That's what we do here every week, Pinky. :P
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: you probably also need to fix the "corsica, coming soon" sign too
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Dementor Neiro|Dementor Neiro]]: sorry
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: and a bunch of people holding up silly prims is not ?
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: lol
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]] grins and bounces a little
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: adult ghetto... its 300 sims :)
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: okay, so thanks to everyone for coming along.. great to see some new faces here. who has someone they'd like to discuss?
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: they look like a bunch of noobs
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Oh a protest?1?! Wellthat changes everything! AO is cancelled!
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]] holds up silly prims every time he puts on his hair
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: hahaha
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: welcome back Tal
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: You'll cancel my AO when you detach it from my cold, dead attachment point. :D
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: I'd like to hear an update on how the microparcel extortion and hte traffic bot situations are progressing :)
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: (To ask something not related to adult content for a start :))
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hey mosley
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Wildefire Walcott|Wildefire Walcott]]: I have 2 related questions. 1) Why does LL allow the transfer of $195 tier of grandfathered class 5 sims? And 2) When is LL going to raise the prices of grandfathered class 5s so all class 5 owners are for once on a level playing field?
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Agreed Msley, very slow progess, especialy on the bot front.
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: xstorm and elan please stp heckling the protestors.
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: Have you got anything to say Jack before the torches get lit? ?
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Good choice, Mosley. :D
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: I agree with Wildefire's number 1 question for sure
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: the micro-parcel count is still in decline. actually, if you give me a sec i can upload a graph..
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: oh by the way Adult is AC for short you missed the last 3 meetings
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Wildefire Walcott|Wildefire Walcott]]: (well question one is having a big impact on question 2, ciaran)
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: ooo. business graphics!
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Hello, Jack. We've come here today to express our concern over the proposed adult content changes, specifically, filtering of adult content and the forced move from the mainland to a new continent of all adult content.
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Why not hand everyone a PDF in world? Oh, right.
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: lol
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: thats great new
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: okay, there we go. so as you can see things are speeding up as the number of 16s for sale drops off
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Uh, where?
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: thats great news that 16m is now down
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: for sale or total count of 16m2s?
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: up there, Elan :)
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: i see the same people still cutting ..
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]] wants one
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Uh, I'll look later
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Not by me they ain't
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: It's jut for ale 16s, right?
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: total count of those for sale...
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Yup just for sale
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: this chart is just 16s yes, but the same is true for 32s
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Mari Moonbeam|Mari Moonbeam]]: on the gray cube?
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: so you've only managed to get rid og 1/4 of them in 3 months? what's the holdup?
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Mari, is should rez for you soon
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: yeah, it shows a decline from 2/15 at over 16k, to 5/3 at below 11k
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: (for the "count of 16m mainland parcels for sale")
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: It was 12k last wek though, right?
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: It's a decline, but at this rate, it will be 2 years before it gets down under 2000
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Mavromichali Szondi|Mavromichali Szondi]] waits for rez
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Right, Elanthius, according to the graph
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: As for the traffic bot issue, the worst case ones are being dealt with now as we started enforcement last week
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: it would take less than a morning to create a job that looks for parcels 16m and priced over say 5L per metre.. (10 even if you want to be generous) run then and reclaim them
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: This is the best lag I have seen in a while!
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: hey baby whats your sign?
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: dytskja and yhan please put the batiing signs away. please do not bait those you disagree with
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: LMAO
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We're going to post to the blog again to clarify about camping chairs
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: As there's a lot of confusion around those
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Clarify?
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: What's the word?
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Can you give us a preview?
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack, will someone be assigned to the JIRA ticket regarding the adult content changes? http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-2727
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, it will never get down to 2k because many 16m parcel sales are completely reasonable. We're tackling the huge micro-parcel dealers not the selling of small parcels
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Do you have a target then?
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Really? I've yet to see a "reasonable" microparcel sale.
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: At least Primlands is still out and about at IIRC 1495 per parcel ... they're certainly huge and certainly not reasonable ..
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Xantarius, the Adult content project is being run by a separate team, I'm only involved in the migration part
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: So I don't know
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: So is that why a pacel for sale by me that went on the market for L$9900 after the new policy is allowed? They're not a big group?
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]] mumbles "could have textured the back of yer protest signs...
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: If any of the ones near me are any measure, anyway... $995, $2995, $3000, $9900, etc
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: How are you quantifying success?
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: cyn tells us you're the man though
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: In that case...Regarding the migration, Jack... what will happen to those who refuse to move?
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: so who is right?
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Well, at least the graph shows a desired tendancy
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: I know this question has been asked before...but no answer was given.
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: Trust no one
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, the data looks to show that at around 6k we'd have removed the top 10 micro parcel dealers
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I believe
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]: Mister Linden, for the benefit of people you have moved to other land because there sim was changing rating in a near futur
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: I think they look more realistic with the pywood backs ?
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: The ones below those hold far less
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]: will the Linden compansate the cost on the moving
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Sorry, I can't see the graph. It takes me ten minutes just to move my camera and even then it ends up in some random direction
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]: cost me 300L a week because i moved to another land
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: LOLOL 300L a week? Everyone who is oced to move gets double their land for free.
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, that you can figure, anyway. What about the ones that use disposable alts to buy and cut the basic 512sqm? It is highly suspected that they are all the same person.
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Couldbe, I'm involved with the Land part as I said, but not the policy discussions in Jira and the forums. But I'm happy to talk about the Land aspects
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Also, Jack...who is our contact for the project, overall. In other words, who can we contact, or whose office hour can we attend, who will be abe to address the adult content changes fully?
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]] shrugs. "Im not moving, none of the businesses on the sim im on are moving. if LL wants to move the sim... we're ok with that..
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Grandfather private land in for a fair bit longer than mainland then Jack :)
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, we have good data there. It all adds up to the size of the market so we're not missing anyone
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]: MisterLinden to who should i address my complaint then.
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: ok. then 1. have you set a window for the move 2. have you a date to open the move list 3. will we be able to increase land holdings as part of the move by buying directly from you as part of the changeover
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, just sayin' they aren't going to be in your "top ten", but they are likely as big as many of them who are in it.
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: and of course if yes 4. how much will the land be per sq m
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Can we g back to Wildefire's question. I'm extremely interested in when you'll finally stop grandfathering $195 estates
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:samatha Congrejo|samatha Congrejo]]: Jack i tihnk the point everyone is getting at is no one is answering the questions, they all say i an not involved, i don't handle that, i don't know, we will get bakc to you, no one will answer the serious ladn issue questions
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: hopefully never.
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: anyone else get knocked out?
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Reparata Nightfire|Reparata Nightfire]]: Yes Mr. Linden, to whom should we address our complaint about the Adult Contenet Filtering?
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I believe Blondin is doing most of the communications directly
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: i got kicked so hard my butt hurts
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: not
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Well the reason for grandfathered status on transfer has surely long passed its sell by date
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: He has regular office hours too i think
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:samatha Congrejo|samatha Congrejo]]: He is not communicationg, he ignores most serious questions
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: So then you'd suggest that we deal directly with Blondin?
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, try to, anyway.
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:samatha Congrejo|samatha Congrejo]]: we just spent an hour last night with him telling us nothing and ignoring most questions
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Kara Spengler|Kara Spengler]]: Blondin is giving us the same old PR spin, not communicating
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Mavromichali Szondi|Mavromichali Szondi]]: yah, hyu ken all perheps attend other meetink see how dot goes eh.
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yep, that's Blondin
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, we've no plans to change the grandfathering on 195 regions
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Kira Welty|Kira Welty]]: How about the Physical address for Blondin's RL office in Boston?
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: and I also need a swap to some pg land as part of the move. how are you going to accomplish this?
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: We've been hearing the same thing, Kara.
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Danielle Eber|Danielle Eber]]: Answering once per 500 forum posts is not communicating very well
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Gah, you're killing me Jack
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:samatha Congrejo|samatha Congrejo]]: everyone points to Blondie and Blondie ignores the questions
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Wildefire Walcott|Wildefire Walcott]]: But why do you allow the transfer of grandfathered tier to other players? There is ZERO technical reason to allow that.
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: and closing a forum thread doesn't help either
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: :) sorry Elanthius.
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: About as useful as mammaries on a male mammal, he is.
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:samatha Congrejo|samatha Congrejo]]: even if he said no or we don't care or we are going to do nothing that is better than ignoring us
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Wildefire Walcott|Wildefire Walcott]]: Transferring a class 4 i can understand, but the class 5s?
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Hanley/205/218/25/?
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: and why dont you change the 195usd tier...i am they get teh same as the ones who pay 295
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Sorry that was Blondin's office for all the good it does: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Hanley/205/218/25/?
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: OH RL - doh! So sorry Kira!
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack i have a question about exectution of land movements. for mainland sims almsot totally owned by adult businesses such as cicero... why not move the entire sim?
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: The grandfathering was done as a recognition of those early adopters, and as it stands we are not changing that any time soon
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: when wil you let the entire population know about land changes and land impact of AO? also those countries where English isnt mother tongue?
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Erinyse, that's a possibility definitely
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: AC! Or the U-boat?
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Thought you said that was a landscaping nightmare last time that was asked jack
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Jack the point we're making is that the early adopters have a deal fine, buy do people who get islands transferred to them get that same deal? The reason for grandfathering disappears on transfer
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: I think the real issue, Jack, above all else, is that (1) Linden Lab doesn't communicate with the resident community well on some topics. The adult content changes is such a topic. (2) We are referred to this one or that one, but again, communication is poor. (3) No Linden employee has been assigned to the JIRA ticket, causing us to believe that you have no intention of addressing our concerns.
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Wildefire Walcott|Wildefire Walcott]]: They are not early adopters; most of them are younger than I am.
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: could you look into that? i own a 2048 and a 1024 and two clubs there make up most of the rest of that sim
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:samatha Congrejo|samatha Congrejo]]: POint is Jack your Lindens are all passing the buck or ignoring us and people are starting to leave now, sales are donw.. Dari left, a major maker, others are leaving, many have stopped creating and still no linden will stpe forward and actually answer questions, negative answers are better than being ignored
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Talarus is correct.
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: I dont know if you care but I got an invite to a new adult content mall this week that was on the mainland - the owner had never heard of Urusula or Adult filtering and English seemed to be his first language
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Uni, it's a nightmare if the region is mixed use or if we try to squash it into the adult continent. But if it's about spinning someone who owns all or almost all of a region into an island, we can do that
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: I mean they've saved what now, over two and half grand in tier fees and then they get a premium on selling their island because grandfathered status remains on transfer
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: These changes are a train wreck, but not just because we disagree with them. They are a mess because LL hasn't communicated properly (or much at all) about massive changes. They seem to not know what they are doing themselves...are they making it up as they go along?
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Putting a differently terraformed mainland region into the middle of the adult continent wouldn't work
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: Sir, i have a question i would llike clarified please?
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Wildefire Walcott|Wildefire Walcott]]: I could literally buy a nice RL car for the extra amount of money I've paid for my full tier class 5s that my competitors, who bought their grandfathered class 5s from the original purchasers now get to pocket.
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Ciaran: Yeah, it's making business very difficult for those of us not lucky enough to have dozens of super cheap sims. How can we compete with these guys?
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Reparata Nightfire|Reparata Nightfire]]: If thie issue of Adult Content Filtering isn't properly addressed by the Lindens, then I will be leaving Second Life and taking my virtual business elsewhere.
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: That's Blondin's job. To be to focus of resident questions, concerns, and ire over the Adult Content train wreck, and to continue to ignore the residents.
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: what if you bounces such sims to the edge of it or into their own cluster jack? Im not trying to be a pain, but i think doing so would save both LL and reidents $$
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]: Mr Linden many people i know are french and never heard of your project do you intend to translate for those people not to mantion other people of other foreigne languages
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: You and a LOT of other people, Reparata. :-/
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: For those businesses that are adult and communities which arent necessarily adult will all of the persons holdings be moved or just the adult portions?
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Reparata Nightfire|Reparata Nightfire]]: I've already opened an account on the 3rd Rock Grid
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: Can I have al your stuff? ?
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I'll buy your land for L$2/sm
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: 2.1
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Wildefire Walcott|Wildefire Walcott]]: =)
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Erinyse, it would look pretty awful if we did that. repairing that terrain when it is covered in builds would be almost impossible
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: and can you confirm that each parcel you hold doesn't have to contain adult content, just that you meet the criteria and can move up to your current holdings
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: 2.2
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Fine, how about a rac to see who can buy it fastest?
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Bid war! :P
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: well, mainland is only +- 20m isn't it? so it's not going to be that much of a sore thumb
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: ok for all you people going to drop out me and the rest of us sim owners will take all your stuff for free
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I believe there is much more communication planned for when the definitions are finalized, including Message Of The Day etc
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: honestly we dont care what it looks like we jsut arent going to move unless the sim is. we have way too much invested
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Most mainland is +-4m
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Mavromichali Szondi|Mavromichali Szondi]] heff to run to a meetink in RL dot iz ectually important. Goot day to hyu all.
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: careful, barons: it's probably Mature land... can't even advertise PG stuff there after this.
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: 1.5 and it's my final offer ! ?
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: then where's the problem
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:samatha Congrejo|samatha Congrejo]]: wonderful, we complain about getting ignored and get ignored, i am out of here
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack: The number of man hours involved in a move... will there be any compensation for the time you are requiring of those you will be moving?
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Oh yes you can Qie, in the classifieds tab
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: I will give you a special price for sim-in-a-box
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Kira Welty|Kira Welty]]: Jack can you give any reason to be optimistic about these changes at all, that LL actually cares about its current residents?
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: Sir, May i have an answer to my question please?
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: +/-4 on mainland mostly
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Couldbe, the idea here is to move the adult content, not move the land as such. If you own 20 parcels and one of them has an established business that is Adult in nature, then I don't think we would move all 20
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: But we'll be as fair and reasonable as we can, and be working with people to help them relocate
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: that's not what was said previously
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: oh, thanks Ciaran... I haven't got my head around classified in Classified vs classified in All, yet.
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]: well the change are coming fast you better move quickly on this mister Linden cause what you see here is not even close that what will happen when those people will realised how they have been treated
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: it was up to your current holdings
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: what of the smaller business owner
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: LindenLabs are terrible for getting detailed information out there. They always bury it where noone can find it
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]: 2 class citizen
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: with wording noone can make sense of
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: doesn't bother me, I can put my shops on everything I own
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: but it seems pointless
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: say they own 1/2 a sim and a couple of them arent attached since they bought it piece by piece?
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Samatha, no-one is ignoring you, I have IMs, notecards and open chat to answer. .and that means I do miss people
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: MrLinden what is the other 19 parcels are contributing their prims to the one adult parcel?
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: the proposed regulations are so subjective it's frightening when one considers the implications
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack what about the feeral court case that ruled ghettoization was discrimination? i believe it was in 6th circut?
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Still wondering how we're going to be compensated for the loss of our ability to use our land for adult content, when it was part of the value and intention of buying the land in the first place.
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: *federal
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack, forgive me for saying this, but it seems to me that Linden Lab has decided to make massive changes to people's businesses... but you don't have all the answers yet. Why announce these changes and do what feels like a rushed implementation when you don't have the answers to what seem like obvious questions?
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Mari Moonbeam|Mari Moonbeam]]: Seems to me that a comphrensive series of answers to a myriad of questions and concerns is needed and should be done by, no offense Jack , the final yea/nay sayer of LL. This drawn out process is hurting folks-land sales, and store sales--limbo isn't good, Peopel don't have to be here in SL-they want to be-but they just need the Rules of the Rad to make adjsutements and build and sell and live here. Assuming the "little guy/gal" is still wanted
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Mari Moonbeam|Mari Moonbeam]]: Road*
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: xantarius... to be fair... LL is getting pressure from the FCC and a few ultra conservative congressional leaders
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Crickett, as I've said before we would have to look at each situation. This is going to be a discussion but we are committed to being fair with all those affacted
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: *affected
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack, this feels like there is no one managing the project at a high level. Do you have a project manager on this, or is each group handling parts independently of the other groups?
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Honestly, folks, if you really want to hit the people who are in control, talk to Cyn, then to M.
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: cyn doesn't have office hours - well not that I know of
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Xantarius/Mari: I always wonder about that. Wold you rather not hear about it until a week befre it is implemented or hear a few months early when the plans aren't complete?
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: also call your congress man and tell them fcc has no business regulating the internet
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: i wouldnt call Congress 'a few'
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Or write an open letter...
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Yeah Jack isn't on the policy making process for this, although I stiull think he should be making more of a case for mixed use islands
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:McCall Ryder|McCall Ryder]]: Jack, It would sure help your users if you had a good writer talking plain language instead of programmese. "Pathcut" isn't English, "Cut outward from center" is.
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: M is where the buck stops, unless you want to send mail (regular snail mail) protests to Mitch Kapor himself.
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Kara Spengler|Kara Spengler]]: Erinyse: well, according to Blondin yesterday this is just LL being inept internally and nothing is coming from outside pressure :)
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Yeah, Cyn doesn't seem to have office hours. I'd have a word to say there about the darn word filter :(
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Phideaux Mayo|Phideaux Mayo]]: The Congressional Bill is buried
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: i suspect LL had no real idea of 80% of the difficulties and scenarios coming their way n this issue...but they know now
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Xantarius. that's a common question and all i can say is that given the two options of being told early and included in the discussion, or being told late and not being consulted.. every single time people have asked us to talk early
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]: Mister Linden is what way that will affect the work of the mentor no having acces to adult rated sim
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Cyn doesn't have office hours on purpose.
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: But that obviously means that not everything is finalized yet
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Talk "early"? O.o
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: and is it true sir that the property will cost up to 5x's what the current mainland is selling for?
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: A year into the process is hardly "early", Jack.
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: How long now and NOTHING is finalized?
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Mari Moonbeam|Mari Moonbeam]]: Thanks for teh 16m update Jack-is there more news -info you can share today?
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack you have allot of influence in LL. can you maybe try and get m and cyn to hold some actual meetings with residents?
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: McCall, I agree that language is really important.
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack, no one is saying tell us late... What we're saying is that before you open the discussion, have most common questions/situations thought through. That way, you can give three months or more notice of these massive changes and half the work (for you and us) is done already before notice is even given.
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Hey, you skipped talking about the traffic bot policy. How many bots have you banned? Got a graph for us?
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: neither do the Gteam Talarus - says it all really
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Kara Spengler|Kara Spengler]]: Jack: well, being told early but not being allowed to give input seems pretty pointless ..... beside, this has been in the works for 18 months according to Blondin
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Erinyse, there have been a number of those brown bag ones etc, but i'll certainly pass that on
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Two years ago they first blogged about extreme content and account verification
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Baba Yamamoto|Baba Yamamoto]]: [11:32] Erinyse Planer: child avi and disruptive bating in a mature sim. filing an ar
*[11:32] Baba Yamamoto: go fuck yourself
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: The problem is that you said, "We're moving all the adult stuff. no...we don't have details."
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: All with "Nothing final" as the answer
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: the brown bags dont feel as though anything gets answered Sir
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: This may be quite early, no dates have ben mentioned, pity if people are quiting and going off the handle 6 months too early
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Hey! I got AR'ed by Erinyse Planer too!!
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: then, when we ask questions, it's not a discussion...it's you and Blondin telling everyone asking that you dont know.
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Kara, how have you tried to give input? We've read all the forum posts and emails and notecards
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: The brown bgs are nonsense. A complete insult to everyone's intelligence.
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: i simply do not like the term "adult" i thin it is totally subjective. Further, i resent not being trusted to uncheck a mature box, read a sim description and being able to make my own descions.
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: lol Jack, you really didn't just ask that did you???
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: 18 months to come up with solution least aceptable solution to the most residents
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: The brown bag meeting transcripts mostly showed me that Lindens don't know how their own search works, sadly :/
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: ive spent hours listening to them and walked away feeling totally at a loss as to explain what i may have learned
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: Further, what happens to all of this land that becomes worthless when everone is forced onto LAGG island?
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack, you know about the JIRA ticket.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Darkstar, we've said that those terms are not ideal and we are looking for better alternatives. If you have thoughts on that do let us know
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Jack, people have asked questions repeatedly in the forums and office hours to which LL has never answered
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: yes.. PG & Mature..
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack, we are letting you know. Go read the JIRA ticket.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Jack I gotta call bullshit on that one - both you and Blondin have said you hadnt had time to read all the forum posts
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: I think people might appreciate a clarification update on the blog Jack and how things stand at the moment :)
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: WE HAVE GIVEN THOUHTS FOR WEEKS NOW JACK!
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: jack, I didn't see you answer my questions on the logistics of the move - there were 4 questions
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: maybe assign someone to the JIRA ticket
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: i think everyone agrees what mature means.. but.. is a Degas considerd Adult?
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: are you actually telling us that we are not participating i a discussion?
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Jack if you catch this: Ursula; Is it old server hardware or all brand new?
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: An alternative would be to change the mature content checkbox to a PG content checkbox and put the onus of saying a parcel is PG safe on the parcel owner, that would rid PG search of loads of adult terms
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Moon, by (we) I am not meaning just myself or Blondin. We as a company have read al the feedback
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Jack: any interest in LL for opening some of Ursula early as a site for an SL6B "Fringe Festival"? I'll rent it from you guys for L$1, if that makes it easier, and find some way to organize it.
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:xstorm Radek|xstorm Radek]]: AC Jira was voted to be closed
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: There is no way, sadly, that I could have read it all. I would have liked to but you guys write too fast. :)
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: Ultimately the decision is made by LindenLabs to do whatever they please.. any listening to you is so they can find ways to ease you into it but the plan goes ahead regardless :)
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Uni.. brand new
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Kara Spengler|Kara Spengler]]: Jack: we have tried through notecards, email, office hours, direct IM conversations, blog and forum posts on secondlife.com and elsewhere .... should we do registered mail instead maybe for communications?
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack: Have you (or anyone at LL) read the JIRA ticket on the adult content changes?
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I read it all in less than an hour a day.
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: it's down to about 4 pages a day now jack
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: This ticket: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-2727
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Qie.. haha that's an interesting idea!
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: has anyone at LL read it?
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: and all the feedback is this is insane. I would like to know if LL plans to buy my sim for the same $1,000 US dollars we paid for it, because we may have "adult" content?
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Jack: Thanks.. so perhaps i could go out on a limb and say "class 6"? Cause your gonna need to make that hardware fairly meaty for all the scripting....
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: and if so, why has no one been assigned to it?
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: ok seriously
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Jack, it could be good marketing, seriously.
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Kira Welty|Kira Welty]]: How will you avoid breach of contract if everyone who owns mature land isn't giving the option to swap, regardless of conditions of current land use?
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Xantarius, I know the project team will have. I read most of the longest Jira thread
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: ok...
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: so why hasnt anyone been assigned?
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Kara: I would
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Certified, RR requeted.
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: *requested
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: Thanks Kira, you just reminded me of something..
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: i think LL should have to buy back the land for the same price we have paid for it.. in REAL US dollars
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: One to Mark Kingdon, one to Mitch Kapor.
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Darkstar are you talking about an Island or Mainland?
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: Jack, would it be better if we organised a meeting in your office in brighton. a one on one may just clear a lot of this up
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: I mean rl here of course
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: this hasn't even been considered
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: the dmage this will do to the SL economy is evastating
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: CouldBe: Agreed! I can be there in an hour. You bring the pitchforks
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: Jack, Sir, is it true that you all still believe only 3-5% of SL is adult in nature and that is why you made ursualla too small to accomodate us all or is it that you know we are going to pay what we have to in order to preserve our way of life?
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Couldbe, I'm not based in Brighton
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: if someone farts it does devastating damage to the SL economy
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Though I could be there potentially.
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: I thought you were in the UK
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: I don't think they'd let me carry my pitchfork on the train
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I am in the UK, but not in Brighton
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: lol Ciaran, I'll carry mine too and we'll see if we can get a porter
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: well where are you jack? do you remote work or do you have an office somewhere else
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: i would revise your econimic predictions downward for the coming year by at least half.. land owners, shop owners.. this is a travesty, and it truy is counter to the spirit of SL in being able to create your own vision, at the end of the day this is cencorship of the highest order.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: I'm pretty prepared to travel. England is a small place
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: thanks for working overtime Jack....
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: It'll take me a bit longer to get to Newcastle, but come to Nottingham Jack and it's nice and central - most UK residents could be there in a couple of hours
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Crickett, not quite. We surveyed the Mainland (not Islands, they are different) and found that the number of parcels with clearly adult material was relatively low.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: I have a Popeils pocket Pitchfork
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: Further, when i DO encounter someting i find truly ofensive, what i would REALLY like
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I think around 4% or so
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: is to not have to try 15 times to tp away
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: That was fine Jack until keyword search became an issue
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Hey Jack, someone who knows many Lindens, an insider, very influential, said at the beginning of this meeting tha LL are considering leaving Homesteads at US$95 a month. Confirm or deny!
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: Clearly adult? As the proposed rules stand, a poster of Bob Marley smoking a spliff is adult!
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: That's when it all went Pete Tong
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: The Ursula continent is not too small, it can expand as far as we want to expand it. But the terrain as prepared is 200-240 regions or so I think. Last time i looked
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Probably works from his home office. :D
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: he will not confirm that here elan lol
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: it's actually a mainland sim
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: lol but Darkstar, that's the predicatble user experience.. doesn't work as planned, but supposedly it's what the users want
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: But we'l only be putting 50-70 up at first, as we see how it goes
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Jack ive seen a number 320 ir so appear :)
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: I saw some offline Ursulas numbered in the 300s yesterday
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: CLEARLY ADULT amybe but then the definition changed from ~EXTREME to all sexual activity.......that s way more than 2-4%
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: I need a full one, me, one person
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: last time you looked??? ***YOU** are supposedly in charge of the land for this mess
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Wynochee LeShelle|Wynochee LeShelle]]: 399
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Guys, all of you that are IMing me and dropping notecards - I'm just not able to reply to all those while talking to the group, apologies
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: so Jack, when do you go to brighton or is there an office closer to you where we can meet?
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: I mean saying this policy isn't about preventing people selling sex beds on mature land and then filtering the word sex to adult only moves the goalposts on extreme content somewhat
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Phideaux Mayo|Phideaux Mayo]]: Please give jack a chance to respond
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: I apologize Jack if you answered this question already (I probably missed your reponse)... What happens to those who do not move? Will you come knocking at their doors? Will you shut them down if they still refuse after you ask them to move? if they refuse to move, and you ask them to move, how long will they have?
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: pesonally i find violence far more offensive than sexual content. But, i am curious.. i work in the fashion indistry in sl.. we had a show of a very big, very wel know designer, a lingerie designer.. is that show now considered "adult?"
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Sorry elanthius, didn't see that comment about homesteads fly by, must have missed it
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: They claim they will offer a friendly warning
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: and then what?
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: It's odds on that homesteads won't go up in price, if gambling were allowed it would be too short priced for me to bother to bet on it
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: how long will people have to move?
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Reparata Nightfire|Reparata Nightfire]]: This whole Adult Content Filtering issue is nothing more than internet censorship, which I absolutely oppose!
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Couldbe... we have a large team that handles this stuff, and they are working on it all the time
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Can i hazard a guess theyll kick your ass out and put the parcel on the auction site?
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Oh, let me guess theanswer...THEY DONT KNOW
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: No the people who did move will dob them in of course like gambling clubs did to each other ?
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Agreed Reparata, that's why no-one uses facebook or Craigslist anymore
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Well... I wish we could say that this has been informative. I'll call a vote and ask if those here protesting think it has been. Anyone?
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Phideaux Mayo|Phideaux Mayo]]: Nay
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: nothing has happened on ursula for a couple of weeks
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: No
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Medusa Torok|Medusa Torok]]: confused.com
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Hmm, well, Ill throw my question out. What are my assurances I wont be stuck in a sim with an equally popular club that drives us both out of business?
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Xantarius you're posing questions to the wrong guy, give him a break
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: except the trial load of another 150 sims
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Reparata Nightfire|Reparata Nightfire]]: It has been nothing but a bunch of doubletalk, Xan
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: Very!
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: I doubt it. I've allready seen a case of one SINGLE linden tping to a PRIVATE sim, banning about 12 or so accounts, including the sim owner, shutting the sim down with no recourse. The big deal is there was no TOS volaction and no recourse to appieal it. A Lindon cleanly abusing there power for som moral goal..
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Xantarius, I presume that if someone doesn't move their adult business and continues operating it outside of the adult continent, then it'll eventually be dealt with like any other violation
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: They cant raise the price on Homesteads, they havent advertised that they will increase the price so people have bought them unaware.. they cant lie to people
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Chaley they advertised the price rise in November
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: I remain concerned about a) Lindens ability to contain information even the u.s. government and banks like citcorp can't keep private and
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Right, Jack, but how long will they have to move after a warning?
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: It takes time to move a business, you know?
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack them move the sims with the most adult content. but again... when 6th circut ruled another game couldnt ghetto their adult content do you think sl can?
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Oh, ah, yes *thinks hard about Scarlet Linden's abuse of power
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Reparata Nightfire|Reparata Nightfire]]: LL is getting to be just as bad as the US government when it comes to taking away people's rights!
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Hmm, I didn't realise everyone was so certain the price wouldn't rise. I've been pretty much banking on it.
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: Ciaran new people wasnt here in november.. it would have to be advertised with the prices when people buy the island
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: they can chaley...they can lol
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: b) what guarantees do the lindens give of this information never being stolen
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: remember, that we're not focussing this policy change on every single piece of adult content, it's about the more commercialised, businesses or services that are adult
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Well yeah Chaley I asked them to do that through December too, agree with you there
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: the only guarantee you have is if you sign off now and never come back, the entire problem will then be resolved for you
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: Age verification doesn't work - at least not reliably out of the USA
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: reparata, that's the third point here too.....
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: those are the ones that if they wish to keep advertising and trading in adult goods will need to move
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: Jack *should* know this, being a brit
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Kira Welty|Kira Welty]]: [11:36] Kira Welty: How will you avoid breach of contract if everyone who owns mature land isn't giving the option to swap, regardless of conditions of current land use?
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Yes but a hell of a lot of people will be sending in tickets, how can you deny them a swap?
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: if as a private individual you have a sex bed in the attic, then this policy won't impact you
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: age verification doesn't work in the US either. lol
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: There is no such thing as online "age verification".
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: Makes sense to me unsless some one can explain why non-adult businesses need the word sex in their advertising?
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: LindenLabs seem to have policys which deceive their own customers.. Noone has confidence in them nomore
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: If they ask to move they should get to move?
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Do you feel even a little nervous that there might be more swaps than you can comfortably do? More tha 300 sims say.
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: free
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Well I can explain to you why PG businesses need the word "tits" in their advertising, Tegg
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: A lot of those attic sex people will WANT to move
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: and how can you deny then a swap of all their holdings when you are focing them to move businesses that have been in place for many years?
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: And yet, were all here using the service, Chaley
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]] Laughs 2Jack id keep my sex bed in er the BEDROOM not the bloomin attic XD
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: c) They are requiring the provising of information where not everyone is paying, this means not everyone is subject to a 3rd party obligation for using the service here irrespective of the TOS itself. As long as there is a free player base, SL is imposing a requirement upon the public to have access in the same manner as a government.
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack what about the 6th circut ruling that said online games can't ghetoize adutl content becuase its discrimination?
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: they haven't such a right
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: it isn't *just* about sex, it's also about art and a host of other things, the sex just get the "moral majority" hot and bothered
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Link, Erinyse?
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: WTFm citation needed Erinyse
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: Elan they will just fire up the printing presses again and poof out comes another 5 continents for the perverts
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: Marianne there is no service comparable to it and is maybe why they know they can get away with it
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: Only if this were a private access such as rotary or odd fellows club, free masons, etc. can they make such impositions on users
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: Ah is the word art banned in advertising too then?
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Danielle Eber|Danielle Eber]]: Legal questions should be addressed to Marty Linden, general counsel
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: what about the combat sim? i was having a long discussion with a friend whom own a RP sim havent really thought about it since last night
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yohan: I suppose ,whe land is nearly free to buy and the main income is from tier it's safe to give away as much as you like
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Wow, they have a server printing machine? I gotta get me one of those! :D
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, it's possible that there are way more adult businesses than either the land surveys or the detailed Search data shows but i'm not sure how we'd have missed them if that is true. But if that were the case we would have to extend the timeperiod and add mor bodies to help move people
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Does hehold office hours?
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: but wehre the users aren't subject to any sort of consideration to constitute an agreement, they are merely tresspassing on privacy rights
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: from the way the proposed rules read, the statue of david would be banned from a pg sim
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Danielle Eber|Danielle Eber]]: The current KB6010 would prohibit showing a disney cartoon on PG land
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: Jack do the lindens really want the corporate risk exposure of lawsuits for invasion of privacy?
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: so nude artworks arent allowed in PG?
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Firehorse, no it wouldn't
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Oh Jack, so you're prepared to promise you'll give land t every legitimately adult business? Before there were hints it would be limited to 50 sims or so and then everyone who was too late was just screwed. Or not screwed since it's PG now
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: hahahhaha
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: the statue of david isn't an adult oriented service or business operating on the Mainland.
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: :)
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Reparata Nightfire|Reparata Nightfire]]: LL has opened up a whole pandora's box of issues concerning art, freedom, etc. by pursuing this Adult Content Filtering plan
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Erotic art is covered though Jack
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: what about other nude art, Jack? is this where photorealism comes into play?
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Not that I'm saying I find the statue of David erotic
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: as is nudity
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: It is if it is in a pay-to-access museum, or one that advertises something for money
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: sex bed businesses werent part o the original planned move but thy have to goif they want otherwise they can become free sex rooms
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]: well if they sell it. It becoe one i think mister Linden
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: having seen the real thing, it's a pretty "photorealistic" portrail of nudity
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, we're not limiting it in that way, that wouldn't be fair at all. If someone has a legitimate claim to being in that business then they wil get a free move
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Ciaran: It's those enormous hands and feet that do it for me.
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: and how do you not know that photorealisitc is used to describe a certain type of skin?
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jack: Awesome news!
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: Jack I repeat, why are the lindens taking on this responsibility instead of leaving it to the sim owners themselves, who pay consideration to SL for a sim, where requriments of an adequate means of determining the age and thereby access to their matieral is their responsibility?
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: how long will the get to set up jack?
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]: That meen no more art exibite for the poor little Thopel cause most of them seel there art too
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Define "legitimate claim".
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: If David isn't an issue, why did Carl Metropolitan get ARd over something similar?
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: keep in mind the average business takes between 2 weeks and a month to build
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: my understanding is that erotic art, that is clearly art, is not going to have to move
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: See, that is where it gets sticky.
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Pardon the pun.
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: Maybe one day they will have rules to ban avatars from wearing a skirt and no underwear :)
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: "that is clealr art!!!???""
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: I think the question was whether erotic art is PG or Mature, Jack, not whether it's adult
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: Is the statue David PG or G or C then?
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Echo Underwood|Echo Underwood]]: Depends... it "has" been deepmed naughty in the past. Who get's to decide what is "clearly art"?
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: and who in the name of GOD makes THAT detrmination
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: this is an impossible definition
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Walter, not sure i understand the question
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: SL should nto be pursuing this against the mass of users but instead solely as an imposition on the sim owners, thus assuring the legitimacy of the sim owners, a smaller group and less likely to bring a class action against the lindens for violations of privacy
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: if so ill be in big trouble chaley
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: is mapelthore "Real" aret?
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Darkstar asked the question I was typing. lol
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: Mosley, go bite Jack for me.. he still hasn't answered the questions about the logistics..
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Reparata Nightfire|Reparata Nightfire]]: LL is trying to play God, and it's going to v=backfire bigtime on them!
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Siighs and so it begins.... that statue is pervy.... AR AR AR
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Why can't we all apply for a move? Seriously, plenty of folks would rather be on adult land than mature now even private residence as the goalposts are being moved they're not convinced their private activities won't be denied at a later date and would rather be on account verified land. They thought mature was the adult place
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Couldbe, I have no idea, I'm not familiar with that case
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: the question is jack
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: and what happens if LL is bought by a fundamentalist religious group?
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: and doesnt clean up SL or make it PREDICTABLE
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: why do you want the liability exposure?
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: if you offload taht liability exposure to the sim owners
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: not that question.. the ones about the move
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Firehorse - and what if I build a man out of straw?
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: and thus assure you have fine sim owners
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: you mitigate any sort of liability issues for sl
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: and are able to market that as a positive aobut sl
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: instead of be hit with this negtive of imposition on the entier citizenry
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Firehorse, that is the best question of the day hehe
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: as though hugo chavez
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I think they have been already.
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: 60% of residents are not in the USA - jet this *seems* to be about apeasing an american morality which I am assured is a minority, if loud
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack whats to proect business that get looked at by one gteam member and told "youre fine" from having another gteam member come through a month later and deem the same content a violation?
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: SCientology?
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Or may be grooming to be bought by one, or IPO. :D
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Walter, in terms of islands that is up to the estate owners. for Mainland the estate owner is us
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: right jack and
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Magnet Homewood|Magnet Homewood]]: in the last few minutes of this meeting I would like to say I think Jack has really earnt the right to have a cold beer tonight, and I really hope he enjoys it, whatever the outcome of the changes are :)
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: firehorse. im american, im moderately conservative, and this policy offends me for what its worth.
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: jack that means you take ont he liability for privacy intrusion if any of these records get lost
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: So within our estate, we are putting some separation between commercial adult content and everything else
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: But the US Gov is in the USA with the servers and LL's business offices
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: Jack, with all due respect.. the us supreme court has taken on this challenge, what makes LL belive it has the skill, the right, quite frankly to make a dtermination of what constitues "real" a see no real need to change. We are all supposedly 18+ on the main grid. Sims are classified mature and PG, there is a sim description and a mature checkbox.. for the love of God! Trust us as adults to make up our own minds
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: What does being conservative have to do with it? :P
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: If he'd answer the question on why it's fair to still keep grandfathered status on class 5 sims when they are transferred I'd buy him a beer myself!
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Can't really trust them, DarkStar ... but the question remains, why didn't they just enforce those old /current rules
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: what does God have to do with it
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: jack if citibank can lose 35,000,000 records, if the u.s. army and social security can do the same, how can you guarantee there is no privacy infringement by your requests for information from non paying customers?
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Just as on the high street the adult stors have blackened windows, so that only those specifically wanting that content enter.. we are just providing that separation
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: if someone wants to avaiod "adult" content leave the mature box unchecked and see 1/10th of what Sl has to offer
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Echo Underwood|Echo Underwood]]: Might I suggest one point however, LL *is* a US company,and sbject tot the laws of the US and California. One writ from a judgecould shut SL down in ten minutes. The real question is, how far does Linden Labs feel it needs to go to stay on the right side of teh law?
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: I'll second that Ciaran
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: jack what guarantee can you give that there will be no 3rd party theft of inforamtion?
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: uh jack
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack: What prompted Linden Lab to make these changes? What's the official answer on that?
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: theres nooo way you can make that analagoy work
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: sorry
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: The local adult video store here doesn't have "blackened windows".
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: and agian i ask
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Crickett Booker|Crickett Booker]]: then why not allow us to monitor ourselves the same way?
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Walter: what information? You age verify using payment info, same info you've been giving for years
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: Jack, no guarantee, you own the liability and if any record whatsoever is stolen I'll see ya in court
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Reparata Nightfire|Reparata Nightfire]]: The US law is corrupt anyway. Why would ANYONE want to stay on the "right" side of it?
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: What percentage of sims are now classified "mature" and what percentage PG?
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Oh dear oh dear, Jack, if you think this is bad, just wait until its officially announced
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: That would be parcel level controls and public decency on outside advertising, something I'm very much in favour of
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: omg define whats commercial and what isnt now...
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Darkstar, that age issue isn't the point here. many 18 year olds and older do not want to see that material and if they do, they would prefer to see it when they choose to, not when their neighbour wants them to
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: Any idea if they will fix the verification system so I can't verify disposable alts with random numbers and addresses?
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: whats to protect us from having one gteam member say our business is fine and another from banning us for a violation?
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Wynochee LeShelle|Wynochee LeShelle]]: no black windows where i live, Jack:-)
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Doesn't have many windows to begin with (too many people want to break in and steal stuff rather than pay for it), but what windows it has aren't blackened.
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack... not many
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: a FEW
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: you are focsued on sexually oriented issues.. violence, gore.. fine
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Darkstar, traditionally I think around 15% of regions were set to PG on the Mainland
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: and those are the same ones that go tping to adult businesses and whining
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: so if it's not an age issue then why require identifying information that can be stolen and use to compare against other databases? Do you really believe linden labs operates in a vacuum?
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Danielle Eber|Danielle Eber]]: Mainland is about 70% Mature
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: I, for example. Which is why I bought PG land. Why would I expect anyone on mature land not to show adult content?
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: Lindens have all the bases covered.. They dont care if some of you leave or abandon lands.. This just means another quick profit when they resell it
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: LL have said this move is to please a minority of residents, so WHY?
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Opensource Obscure|Opensource Obscure]]: windows are blackened here. we're doing daily riots about this here.
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: Why ignore the majority
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack, if they don't want to see this sort of material...can't they just go PG? Why have mature land if you don't want to see mature things? you guys are inventing problems that don't exist. Move the small minority of people who don't want to see mature/adult content, not the rest of us.
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: :) Wynochee
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: OK.. if 70% mature.. what does that tell you?
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: (Of course being on PG land never protected me either, since it was rarely enforced.)
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Walter, it cannot be stolen, that isn't true. We don't keep that data
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We check, then we discard it
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: it WAS stolen
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: I cant frigging wait until LL announces this! *she shouts quietly
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: from yoru verifyer
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: and it was SOLD
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: by your verifyer
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: [11:17] Couldbe Yue: ok. then 1. have you set a window for the move 2. have you a date to open the move list 3. will we be able to increase land holdings as part of the move by buying directly from you as part of the changeover
*[11:17] Couldbe Yue: and of course if yes 4. how much will the land be per sq m
*[11:19] Couldbe Yue: and I also need a swap to some pg land as part of the move. how are you going to accomplish this?
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Thopel Grigorovich|Thopel Grigorovich]]: Yeah on many time in survey i complain about the lack of inforcement in PG land
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: I can say fuck here due to sim setting is mature, but I can expose a breast? (If i was female)
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Xantarius, because PG land is totallyintermingled with Mature land on the Mainland
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: just move ...
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: can'=can't
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: jack, just do not require identifying information of public users, free users, you'll be violating our privacy because it is an unnecessary gathering of private information, meaning, I derive no benefit from you taking my information, nothing of mine is protected.
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: so jack why not make a pg contentinet instead?
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: cheaper
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: easier
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Atechwolf, yes you could, this is a mature region
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Right, Jack...so why don't you create a 'G' continent?
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: much easier
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: though might not be ideal for an office hour
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: :)
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: because disney is not the problem
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: aside from the fact jack that many people feel the ss number is the "mark of the beast" the same people you say dont' want to see adult material, and they will not use any portion of that number
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Kira Welty|Kira Welty]]: Why do you insist on keeping unverified access to Mature regions?
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Danielle Eber|Danielle Eber]]: Breakdown of current regions by Ownership and Classification:
*
* * Estate - Adult: 1
* * Estate - Mature: 17955
* * Estate - Offline: 8
* * Estate - PG: 3441
* * Linden - Adult: 7
* * Linden - Mature: 3982
* * Linden - PG: 1421
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: that would be like segregating a city & letting a smutty red light district take over.... not going to happen
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: i mean if 0% of mainland it mature, private sims must be even higher, therefore it stands to reason that a majority, a fra greater majority of residents "tolerate" mature content
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Opensource Obscure|Opensource Obscure]]: <insert epic facepalm here>
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Storyof Oh|Storyof Oh]]: PG continent easier than hiding adult on mainland
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: see jack it's their right to their sincerely held religious beliefs, and you'd be requireing them to violat them by providing such identifying information to you
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: sorry you are
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: The benefit of verifying is supposed to be knowing that real people are respossible for an accounts actions, tht they are not disposible alts
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: you cannot guarantee every cache is empty in between
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: every router
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Walter, we are not gathering information, no part of it is kept. we're asking only for that check *if* you choose to view that adult content
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: every access
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: a police officer was kileld becuase your verifying company SOLD her information
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: age verification is being forced into law in the uk.
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: so please don't tell me you aren't gathering information
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Whoa
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]] bounces gellfully, "oh oh oh and the MOVE team gets to hear all of this over and over and over and over !
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: you cannot at all guarantee they wont sell anyone elses
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Jack, you are saying that a small minority of people wanted this. Fine. Create a new continent for them. Why do this to businesses that are already established? This is massive. It's a lot of work you don't need to be doing, and a lot of headache the business owners don't need. The reason question is this: are you doing this because you are merging the TEEN GRID into the adult grid????
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: The adult verification also still won'T work for everyone (it still won't verify me with my correct and truthful info)
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: behave yourselves here
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: *epic eye roll*
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: lol
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]] wonders what an "epic" facepalm would look like, and wonders if it will be repeatable enough for the coming months. :P
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: listen to erinyse jack?
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Walter, if they don't wish to verify then they can enjoy the many thousands of regions that are not adult, as much as they wish
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: do you hear tht one?
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: these folks are way louder than those pesky tree huggers who used to come harass you eh jack
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: JUst wait until they anounce it! *she hollers in a whisper
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jack, if it's not about age verifying then why do we need to be PIOF to see adult material? Surely you should just allow people to choose to be Adul regardless of whether they are paying or not.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: you can't guarnatee it isn't being taken in between
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: bah.. we were lots more vocal. :D
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Mosley Sperber|Mosley Sperber]]: Good point, Elanthius
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Yohan - this has nothing on the S.O.S. folks who papered the front of the building
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Xantarius, this has nothing to do with the TG which we've stated many times. The TG has no bearing on this at all
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: looks what good that did...
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: The SOS thing was so short lived though.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We have no plans to merge grids
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: the last time people was protesting against age verification people was setting themselves on fire :)
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: Save our Sex?
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: jack the point is that they enjoy that now and appreciate the freedom, what you propose is to take that away and expect them to stay, they haven't any need to verify with you, your imposing a unilateral demand on them even when they are a free public player, you are exceeding the demands of government
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: I wish you guys would crowd in a little more. It's hard to get decent mob scenes when you're so spread out.. /me grins :)
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Merging the grids is evens money, give it 12 months
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: You have no plans Jack but ill bet you 20 quid your thinking it....
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Lindin Lindman|Lindin Lindman]]: Thank you Jack, that is reassuring to hear
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Then, Jack... We just don't understand (maybe cause all LL has told us is that a small minory wants this).
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Where is this minority? Are they here now?
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: The real issue here is censorship and the term adult is totally subjective.. TOTALLY.. what i find offensive will be dfferant from everyone else here. "offensive content" is IMPOSSIBLE to define because every individual defines it differantly..
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: and tell that minority to go to the teen grid
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Are they attending several office hours per week, as we intend on doing?
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Firehorse Rearwin|Firehorse Rearwin]]: and I am an adult, so if I find something offence I leave...
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: this is about choice not discrimination
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: jack why wotn LL handel its own age verification? many people would feel more comfortable to get it out fromt he sleezy company you ahve handeling it now
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: we want our customers to have the choice over what their second lives are. and whether they view adult material is a choice every resident should be able to make for themselve
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Saying "there are no plans or a part of this plan to merge the TG with the AG" is nigh upon meaningless, since the timeframe "at the moment" is not qualified, and can simply be hand-waved away as a separate policy later.
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: *s
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Yes, because sending adults into a teen-only space is such a good idea, Tumble
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]] winks
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Xantarius Cain|Xantarius Cain]]: Catering to some small minority of small-minded Puritans is a waste of time. The adult businesses are bringing in more cash monthly to you than some guy with a small parcel and his home on it.
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Erinyse payment info on file with Linden Lab gives you account verification
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: [11:17] Couldbe Yue: ok. then 1. have you set a window for the move 2. have you a date to open the move list 3. will we be able to increase land holdings as part of the move by buying directly from you as part of the changeover
*[11:17] Couldbe Yue: and of course if yes 4. how much will the land be per sq m
*[11:19] Couldbe Yue: and I also need a swap to some pg land as part of the move. how are you going to accomplish this?
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Couldbe Yue|Couldbe Yue]]: why don't you have a lawyer in attendance like they do at the BBs and at that press conference
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: that's a side issue because they are claiming not to gather information when in fact a verifying company aliready misused it by selling it, meaning someone is collecting information and the lindens either didnt' know, or assumed no liability because it's another party
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Ethereal Clarity|Ethereal Clarity]]: Snuff Out Smut?
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Tegg Bode|Tegg Bode]]: Yes I would feel more comfortable giving my RL details to LL as I already have anyway being premium
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Just ajoke, ort of*she mumbles
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: personllt naked bodies aren't really all that offensive.. i look at oe every day in the morror and another one when he wakes up.. they are all kinda the same.. nipple har.. big freakin deal
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: right but many of us haven't and
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: appreciate the privacy
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Premium members are will all be verified
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Okay folks, I have to run to my next meeting. And I have no fingers left. :)
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: and now it's going to be violated for no good reason but
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: If you're premium you don't need to give anyone any more info
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:DarkStar Gothly|DarkStar Gothly]]: i woud remind you that we all have one of those.. in rl
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Erinyse Planer|Erinyse Planer]]: that deadline is passing ciaran
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Chaley May|Chaley May]]: Jack, do you think Age Verification and Payment Info on file is enough to keep a determined teen from accessing adult content? Its almost giving a license to those teens who get verified to enter the adult zones freely
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Walter McAndrews|Walter McAndrews]]: a bunch of assumptions and claims of groups asking for soemthing
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: lol I am not a puritan but I would be totally pissed off if a Sex Shop opened up next to me in rl
</div></div>

<div id='box' style='text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em;'>
Generated by [http://kuraiko.zeitenwerk.de/wikify.php SL Chatlog Wikify]
</div>

User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2009-02-19

2009-04-30T20:34:11Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2009-02-19 moved to User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-02-19: Refactoring

#REDIRECT [[User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-02-19]]

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-02-19

2009-04-30T20:34:11Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2009-02-19 moved to User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-02-19: Refactoring

'''[10:57] Jack Linden: hey folks

[10:57] Dytska Vieria: Hi Jack!

[10:57] Equinox Pinion: Hi Jack

[10:57] Cristalle Karami: this isn't a voice meeting is it?

[10:57] xstorm Radek: hi Jack

[10:57] Bushido Contepomi: Howdy Jack

[10:57] Marianne McCann: Hi Jack!

'''[10:57] Jack Linden: noo, it's a text meeting

[10:58] Timo Daehlie: back & hello people i ve missed

'''[10:58] Jack Linden: so how are you all.. who has something they'd like to talk about today?

[10:58] Bushido Contepomi: Timo!! Welcome Back:)

[10:58] Rem Nightfire: Hi Jack, Could you tell us what your plans are for dealing with the thousands of high priced small plots - joined or unjoined- that are preventing many of us from being able to rejoin these areas into useful parcels?

[10:58] Elanthius Flagstaff: As if by magic, the shopkeeper appears

[10:58] Timo Daehlie: bush ;)

[10:59] Ciaran Laval: Whose Mr Benn then?

[10:59] xstorm Radek: im good ty :-)

[10:59] Equinox Pinion: The new land cutting policy is not really a change is it, besides that you will talk with the big owners, or did I miss something

[10:59] xstorm Radek: how are you ?

'''[10:59] Jack Linden: Rem.. now that the land cut/dividing post has gone out we have started to talk to the owners of those 16m parcels

[10:59] Rem Nightfire: and can you tell us the nature of these talks?

[10:59] xstorm Radek: well thats good

[11:00] Elanthius Flagstaff: Have you actually talken to any already? I was kinda expecting a call

'''[11:00] Jack Linden: We're also pulling a lot of data on who owns them , whether they cut them up originally and so on

[11:00] Drongle McMahon: Awhole week talking?

[11:00] katykiwi Moonflower: Jack, are you any closer to that annoucement concerning bots?

[11:00] Yohan Pintens: Bots Rule http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,496309,00.html

'''[11:00] Jack Linden: Rem.. mainly just about the no cutting ruling, but also about the high average prices and the volume that are out there. We clearly want to reduce that

[11:01] Rem Nightfire: a while ago, Harry contacted the owners of high priced donut holes and told them the had to come to an agreement with the surrounding landowners will that be a model for the future?

'''[11:01] Jack Linden: We've started Elanthius, Harmony is doing most of the contact work there

[11:01] Bushido Contepomi: Jack: I am curious as to why these overpriced micro parcels are still up for sale, and new roadside cut's are just sitting there with contact owner for sale "320 SQ Nice Roadside" Why are you letting this continue?

[11:01] Equinox Pinion: but one person could still do a 16sm parcel and sell it for 50.000 under the new policy

[11:02] Drongle McMahon: There don't seem to have been any changes.

'''[11:02] Jack Linden: Bushido.. we'll be looking at all of that. As with the Ad Farm stuff, it'll take a little while for us to gather all the info. There are a lot of parcels hehe.

[11:02] Equinox Pinion: you need to put price limits on them or nothing will change

'''[11:02] Jack Linden: Equinox aswe discussed in the blog post, that remains an option

[11:03] Talarus Luan: Well, I have seen *one* change. Mr. "Four Corners" took his 96sqm plot off sale (as if L$29999 for a 96 was a sale price in the first place), and transferred it to another of his alt's groups.

[11:03] Elanthius Flagstaff: There were a lot of ad farmers dumping land. Hundreds maybe thousands of 16s went up for sale at low prices in the last two weeks

'''[11:03] Jack Linden: From a technical point of view it's not that hard for us to do.. but we're not made that decision yet

[11:03] xstorm Radek: lol

[11:03] Drongle McMahon: None wherte I was watching.

[11:03] xstorm Radek: damn scammer

[11:03] Talarus Luan: But that is all.

[11:04] Rem Nightfire: no change for mr. 4 corners in about 30 of my areas

'''[11:04] Jack Linden: Yeah, there has a lot of adjustment in the last couple of weeks on small parcels

[11:04] Qie Niangao: Elanthius... that's interesting... must have been the really sad parcels, cuz I've seen no movement at all where I watch

'''[11:04] Jack Linden: Prices changing etc

[11:04] xstorm Radek: i seen a 16m going for 999999 one time

[11:04] Talarus Luan: Likely, it will take some time for them to get around to "fixing" all the thousands of plots

[11:04] Rem Nightfire: the 1495 s are still there the 777 s are still there in abundance

[11:04] Elanthius Flagstaff: It's specific cutters liquidating everything. So depends who you have around you.

[11:05] Drongle McMahon: What do you call low price, Elanthius?

'''[11:05] Jack Linden: I expect that it'll happen in waves as we contact each of them in turn

[11:05] Elanthius Flagstaff: L$50 per 16

[11:05] Melodie Darwin: ha

[11:05] Talarus Luan: I imagine the Torus Frog -esque 16s will never be handled, as it appears to be part of the "business model"; ie, throwaway accounts.

[11:05] Rem Nightfire: is it useful to AR high priced donut holes at this point jack?

[11:05] Elanthius Flagstaff: I've bought I think a hundred or so at that price

[11:05] Bushido Contepomi: Elanthius, what about your new cut's, and 16Sq m, are you still trading them , or are you dumping as well?

'''[11:06] Jack Linden: Rem, doughnut holes if it appears to be deliberate.. sure

[11:06] Alexxa Despres: Hi everyone ;))

[11:06] Cristalle Karami: Elanthius doesn't cut.

[11:06] Rem Nightfire: delibarate in that the price is 9999L?

[11:06] Bushido Contepomi: Have you been to Cheetoh Cristalle?

[11:06] Cristalle Karami: Elanthius is the bot runer that picks up the abandoned 16s

'''[11:06] Jack Linden: If you think what they are doing is a governance issue Rem, then report it and the team will look at them

[11:07] Cristalle Karami: runner*

[11:07] Rem Nightfire: ok thanks jack

'''[11:08] Jack Linden: now, last week I bravely said the new blog would go out this week and of course that has bitten me.. as it hasn't. so apologies for that.

[11:08] katykiwi Moonflower: Jack, any update on the bot issue?

'''[11:08] Jack Linden: some technical hitch stopped it launching

[11:08] Alexxa Despres: hmmmm...quiet bunch or am i just not getting chat?

[11:08] Brie Janick: can i ask a ??

'''[11:08] Jack Linden: i'm told next week it'll launch

[11:08] Drongle McMahon: Jack. Will you reconsider a financial incentive for rejoining, when the talking fails?

[11:09] Ciaran Laval: lol never mind Jack it's best to have it right before launch.

[11:09] Rem Nightfire: or a "forced" negotiation?

'''[11:09] Jack Linden: Katykiwi (that took me about five attempts to type).. the landbot/traffic discussion will start once the new blog goes up as i'd like to use it's better discussion features

[11:09] Elanthius Flagstaff: ETA on the new fancy blog?

[11:09] Talarus Luan: Next week

[11:09] Elanthius Flagstaff: You mean "next week"

[11:09] Alexxa Despres: Jack..I am still going to ask... when will LAND be added to new webpage? *smiles sweetly*

'''[11:09] Jack Linden: Drongle, it's very unikely we would financially reward rejoining

[11:10] Talarus Luan: Apparently. :D

[11:10] Equinox Pinion: Are there any news on the new product front?

'''[11:10] Jack Linden: Alexxa.. lol.. I passed on the comments. It's down tothe web folks now

[11:10] Elanthius Flagstaff: WTF is going on with the stats page. RAAAWWWWRR!!

[11:10] xstorm Radek: it be nice to see Bot only stay on the owners land and not endup at a place like Korea1

[11:10] Drongle McMahon: I'm afraid you will never see it happen then.

[11:10] Alexxa Despres: Hmmmm...can you give me their address...i can smile sweetly at them too ;)))

'''[11:11] Jack Linden: No new news on Products, we've no changes planned there at all.

[11:11] Rem Nightfire: the relocation of extortion plots seems like it would work well jack

[11:11] xstorm Radek: Korea1 is not a place for bots when its a telehub

[11:11] Cristalle Karami: Jack, are there plans to deploy the google search app for land sales any time this year?

[11:11] Rem Nightfire: put them together somewhere or along a road

'''[11:11] Jack Linden: Rem, that is an option, that we swap out problem 16m parcels and replace with a Linden owned one set for the owner to buy.

'''[11:12] Jack Linden: But we're starting off by talking it through with the big micro-barons.

[11:12] Rem Nightfire: thank you thats a great plan

'''[11:12] Jack Linden: It would be much better if people will work with us to improve things

[11:12] xstorm Radek: thats good

[11:12] xstorm Radek: about time they get clean up

[11:12] Elanthius Flagstaff: I think the swapping thing will be great as well, hard to complain about that for both sides

[11:13] Drongle McMahon: Arbor has been working with you on this for years.

[11:13] Rem Nightfire: yes and some have started doing that, but there are some real die hards out there

[11:13] Talarus Luan: Yup. Unfortunately, the extortionist business model playbook does not have a "cooperation" page. :-/

'''[11:13] Jack Linden: Cristalle, we've a few things lined up for search that will help. We're looking at whether abusing the land listings might also become something we have to consider a governance issue

[11:13] Elanthius Flagstaff: Woah, what counts as abuse?

[11:13] Bushido Contepomi: Jack: You can always use the extra space along the roadside's for extra lanes of traffic in your new city developments;)

[11:13] Elanthius Flagstaff: Like, estate rentals for sale for L$1? Does that count?

'''[11:13] Jack Linden: A lot of adverts and stuff in the land sales that are not genuine for example

'''[11:14] Jack Linden: hehe Bushido

[11:14] Bushido Contepomi: -))

'''[11:14] Jack Linden: Drongle: agreed Arbor has done some good work

[11:14] Elanthius Flagstaff: Man, I secretly hate those people chasing the bottom of the market so they can advertise their estate. it's a double whammy for the mainland, they treat land sales list like a joke and they cut up mainland to ruin it and make it less attractive

[11:15] Brie Janick: Jack

[11:15] Brie Janick: id like to ask something

'''[11:15] Jack Linden: hey Brie

[11:15] Brie Janick: Are the any plans that would enable us to ban groups from our land not just individuals? Without having to buy grid wide security systems etcc. This should be an estate tool also.

'''[11:15] Jack Linden: go for it!

[11:15] Brie Janick: we are having big problems on our Oi and sims

[11:15] Equinox Pinion: good idea brie

'''[11:15] Jack Linden: hmm, you know there isn't anything on the slate right now for access/ban improvements, at least nothing short erm

'''[11:15] Jack Linden: *term

[11:15] Elanthius Flagstaff: Wouldn't they just change their group, or not bother joining it?

'''[11:16] Jack Linden: sorry. I agree it would be good if we could improve that

[11:16] Equinox Pinion: there are some known griefer groups

[11:16] Brie Janick: yes

[11:16] Brie Janick: and they seem to taget us lately

'''[11:16] Jack Linden: as elanthius says, it's a very easy restriction to get around too

[11:16] Brie Janick: target*

[11:16] Ciaran Laval: Surely known griefer groups should be banned full stop

[11:16] Talarus Luan: Actually, an oft-requested feature.. *checks JIRA*

[11:16] Qie Niangao: but... if they were banned by group, wouldn't they just change groups? they don't now, because there's no reason to.

[11:16] xstorm Radek: Jack bring back the cornfield

[11:17] Seany1235 Blinker: we getting a lot of the griefer groups coming to london at the moment

[11:17] Equinox Pinion: Qie...they would go for another estate...they give up fast

[11:17] Brie Janick: yes one nearly crashed the sim we had to retart with 51 people

[11:17] Bushido Contepomi: Elanthius: Why did you chop up the roadside in Cheetoh?

[11:17] Dirk Talamasca: Simply allowing residents to select land within a specific price range will go a long way toward eliminating the land sales abuse.. An option in only one direction is custom tailored for gaming.. You should be able to choose the price and size of a parcel more precisely.

[11:17] Elanthius Flagstaff: Bushido, I didn't, but I'm happy to prove it to you outside the meeting

[11:17] katykiwi Moonflower: i agree dirk

[11:17] Bushido Contepomi: Was it your bot's?

'''[11:18] Jack Linden: Dirk, agreed

[11:18] Dennis Lagan: the signifanctly reduced landmass in the past quarters drives more people to the for now still existing regions as well.

[11:18] Seany1235 Blinker: would be great to be able to ban the group not just the one person

[11:18] Elanthius Flagstaff: No, it wasn't me or my bots or my friends or my relatives or anyone related to me at all. Actually, I honestly don't know yet since I don't recognise the sim

[11:18] Talarus Luan: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2864

[11:18] Bushido Contepomi: See this is important, so that we can combat further cutting, I am just looking for clarification.

[11:18] Cristalle Karami: how many times do you have to hear that he doesn't cut, his bots just pick up the land when it's cheap.

[11:19] Elanthius Flagstaff: We'll put it back together after the meeting

[11:19] Drongle McMahon: Need to program the bots not to buy 16s...

[11:19] Ardy Lay: I'd like to ban objects bu their owner and/or creator. I wonder if anybody else would?

[11:19] Elanthius Flagstaff: Uh, why Drongle?

[11:19] xstorm Radek: no there is some people now running bots with out showing a paid account on them

[11:19] Rem Nightfire: lets stay with the convo with jack folks

[11:19] Drongle McMahon: To encourgae the cutters

[11:19] Elanthius Flagstaff: Do I even own land in Cheetoh?

[11:19] Equinox Pinion: why would you want to do that ardy

[11:20] xstorm Radek: some sort of group looks like

'''[11:20] Jack Linden: have you guys seenthe new meeting area to the NE of here?

[11:20] Talarus Luan: Saw it on the map

[11:20] xstorm Radek: yes

[11:20] Ardy Lay: Equi, same reason people would want to ban a group from a parce.

[11:20] Talarus Luan: Didn't know what it was yet

[11:20] xstorm Radek: great looking and less lag

'''[11:20] Jack Linden: once the new blog has gone out, and we start the bot/traffic discussions, i'm going to hold a couple of townhall type events there

[11:20] Talarus Luan: Looks rather "Pooley-Stage-like" :D

[11:20] Qie Niangao: must be some big scary announcement ahead, to need all that meeting space. ;)

'''[11:20] Jack Linden: try to get more people to come along to talk

[11:20] Elanthius Flagstaff: Uh, across four sim corners? Those things are a nightmare

[11:21] Talarus Luan: Yep

[11:21] xstorm Radek: please do not say Pooley

'''[11:21] Jack Linden: haha nothing sinister Qie

[11:21] Fontte Newbold: Mm... town halls.

[11:21] Elanthius Flagstaff: Why don't you just make special super powered Linden sims or something

[11:21] Qie Niangao: :)

[11:21] xstorm Radek: there has been bugs all arouns Pooly

[11:21] Fontte Newbold: Does this mean we get to fill four sims again without looking at PowerPoint presentations?

[11:21] xstorm Radek: people getting stuck AV's

'''[11:22] Jack Linden: hehe fontte

[11:22] Elanthius Flagstaff: Do you know what the future plans are for info hubs? I just found I have some land near one and I'm wondering if it's worth a billion L$/sqm

'''[11:22] Jack Linden: i'd like to be able to have some bigger discussions, so yeah.. 4 corners is better

[11:22] Rem Nightfire: sounds good

[11:22] Elanthius Flagstaff: Is it really that hard to just move that avatar limit over to 400?

[11:23] xstorm Radek: Ghost AV's getting stuck at log off is not fun for people paying to be in SL working

[11:23] Talarus Luan: Yeah, it probably is that hard, unfortunately. :-/

[11:23] Equinox Pinion: during the last restart some of our sims where offline for more than 2 hours...happends lately often....do you plant to avoid that in future

'''[11:23] Jack Linden: Infohubs, at least for a while, are now going to be looked after by my group. Before they were handled by a different part of the Lab

[11:23] Fontte Newbold: It worked well enough during the OS sim colluseum event.

[11:23] Dennis Lagan: probapply yes, since the tier had to be increased combined witha lower avi limit for certain sim types before.

'''[11:23] Jack Linden: That change is very recent. So now we're going to look into what we can do easily that can make them better

[11:23] Alexxa Despres: <,was amused at teh choice of a colliseum for the O/s event :-P

[11:23] Elanthius Flagstaff: So, would you say they're getting more attention now? Or is it going to be more or less business as usual?

'''[11:23] Jack Linden: DPW may do some more work for example

[11:23] Elanthius Flagstaff: I know a lot of people think they are being phased out

'''[11:24] Jack Linden: more attention. yes

[11:24] Marianne McCann: In what way are they being "looked after?" I know some existing ones need maintenance (the box is gone mising from many), and they are a perpetual governance headache

[11:24] xstorm Radek: Jack how will you take care of info hubs when there are a number of problems now with the TeleHubs in SL ?

'''[11:24] Jack Linden: they are very important places as a first experience. we need more signage etc, better explanation for people about why they have landed there etc

[11:24] Marianne McCann was just documenting ones missing their "infohub box" for a JIRA later today

[11:25] Alexxa Despres: To go off subject a bit....how is Linden Labs 'policing'...for lack of a better word.....that o/s sims are NOT being used as homesteads?

[11:25] Marianne McCann: I hope plans, such as they are, remain for the BC and NC infohubs

[11:25] Marianne McCann: I certainly know what I'd love to see in a BC 'hub

[11:25] Dennis Lagan: i do think that all this differnet kind of things like infohubs, help islands and more are confusing.

'''[11:26] Jack Linden: Marianne.. do throw that my way please

[11:26] Talarus Luan: They are bothering to "police" OS sims? O.o 750 prims, 10 avatars.. what would be the point in policing?

[11:26] Ciaran Laval: Are you going to look to third parties to run them Jack?

[11:26] Marianne McCann: Can do, Jack. Notecard or e-mail?

'''[11:26] Jack Linden: Marianne.. absolutely. I've already let the DPW know to move ahead with the bay city one

'''[11:26] Jack Linden: Ciaran.. that's interesting, not sure. ur land tools don't make that easy at all

'''[11:27] Jack Linden: As we're learning with blake sea.. there are some key features we need to make those sorts of arrangements safer

[11:27] Marianne McCann: Excellent. It makes the Bay Citizens very happy (Happy enough to hear my draft guidelines)

[11:27] Elanthius Flagstaff: I thought third parties already did run many of them. Like Ross is practically run by Prok

'''[11:27] Jack Linden: email please Marianne

'''[11:27] Jack Linden: I get so many notecards now it takes me a while to log in

'''[11:27] Jack Linden: hehe

[11:27] Seany1235 Blinker: lol

[11:27] Marianne McCann grins

[11:27] Talarus Luan: You need a suggestion drop box :P

[11:27] Dennis Lagan: Why is one of the SIm's in the blake sea owned bya group where USS managers are owner in?

'''[11:27] Jack Linden: Elanthius, there are residents involved in quite a few hubs yes

[11:28] xstorm Radek: Jack why not do what Blue Linden did ?

[11:28] Marianne McCann: Nova Albion is like the City Slickers, Elan

'''[11:28] Jack Linden: Dennis.. is that the start/finish one?

'''[11:28] Jack Linden: xstorm. what do you mean?

[11:28] Dennis Lagan: yes, there are many mainland sailing clubs, and they didn't get this benefit

[11:29] xstorm Radek: get a message board jack

'''[11:29] Jack Linden: Dennis, they are totally free to apply to become a part of blake sea if they wish to

[11:29] Dennis Lagan: i do think you should develop a system whee everyone can subscribe to such things in a transparent way

[11:29] xstorm Radek: Blue Linden has a message board web link on his profile

[11:29] Dennis Lagan: and what the procedure for requesting this?

[11:29] Dennis Lagan: *whats

[11:29] Cristalle Karami: what are the guidelines for getting attached to the Blake Sea? Full sim ownership plus what?

[11:30] Elanthius Flagstaff: Oh come on, no-one else is going to get added to Blake Sea. The sailing mafia will go crazy

[11:30] Equinox Pinion: jack...many did and got no answer

'''[11:30] Jack Linden: Dennis. this is transparent. If other sailing groups would like to be involved, they can ask. But it comes down to what they will add to the mainland, so it's a give and take, not just a place to move an estate to

[11:30] Marianne McCann: The sailing mafia will leave a seahorse head in your bed

'''[11:30] Jack Linden: Not all groups run organised events for new residents for example

[11:30] Marianne McCann giggles

[11:30] Dennis Lagan: whom should they contact? can a KB page be setup for this?

[11:30] Dennis Lagan: which explains this procedure

'''[11:31] Jack Linden: For blake sea they should contact the USS first of all. We'll be putting out a more general article explaining how other such projects can be suggested and what the likely criteria will be

'''[11:31] Jack Linden: We want to do more of these kinds of projects

[11:31] Elanthius Flagstaff: Exactly, why would the cartel ever let anyone else in on their scam?

[11:32] Ciaran Laval: That's handing USS an awful lot of power

[11:32] Elanthius Flagstaff: What's the benefit to them? If we have to contact them first every request will be filed in the bin

[11:32] Bahar Aya: Hello

[11:32] Talarus Luan: CC it to Concierge

[11:32] Equinox Pinion: why..is USS deciding who is joining the black sea

[11:32] Talarus Luan: If they are indeed 86ing requests, then it will be obvious

'''[11:33] Jack Linden: Ciaran, no it shouldn't be. It's a partnership and it needs to be inclusive as best we can manage.

'''[11:33] Jack Linden: And there wil be other watery spaces too, seas and so on.

[11:33] Dennis Lagan: yes, they can decide wether a resident falls or stand. they concider some sailing goeroes as "concurents" and therefore i think lindenlab should be the one to contact.

'''[11:33] Jack Linden: As i said, we want to do more like Blake sea

[11:34] Elanthius Flagstaff: Who else has been approved to join the mainland?

[11:34] Talarus Luan: I would normally presume that USS will evaluate all requests WITH Linden Lab Concierge oversight. That's just my presumption, though.

'''[11:34] Jack Linden: Well Dennis, if you have no luck then by all means let me know

[11:34] Marianne McCann: I wish there was a "united flying sims" out there,, or united riving in order to get the vehicle sims maintained

[11:34] Dennis Lagan: ok, thanx.

[11:34] Elanthius Flagstaff: Hey, you should get one of those train groups in on this thing. Everyone loves trains

'''[11:34] Jack Linden: Elanthius, no-one else yet but then we've only had maybe 5 people ask and 3 of those were sailing related

'''[11:35] Jack Linden: michael is busy making some plans for the SL RR Elanthius.. as you say, people seem to love trains

[11:35] Elanthius Flagstaff: But you could give all those strips of land to a residential group and they'd build it out. It would be extremely awesome

[11:35] Marianne McCann: Love what I've seen so far on SLRR work, and clid to se the sinica trade happened

[11:35] Cristalle Karami: Jack, I am very positive about the Blake Sea project and I'd like to thank LL for taking that step. Are there plans to put more water sims around the mainland continents, so that there can be more unrestricted travel?

'''[11:36] Jack Linden: the sinica trade rocks. really helps with the route for SLRR

[11:36] Elanthius Flagstaff: You should move the eastern continents closer to the western ones and then join them up with Homesteads

[11:36] Marianne McCann: By far. What are the plans with the rest of that area?

[11:36] xstorm Radek: it be nice to see the water sims get open up a path around some of the mainland sim as a path to link sims that way

'''[11:37] Jack Linden: cristalle.. definitely. we want to keep adding new spaces to the Mainland

[11:37] Drongle McMahon: Jack. What's happening on Linden Remembrance/Memorial Memorial island?

[11:37] Qie Niangao: yeah, the problem with the Blake Sea is that it starts in the East and goes East. :P

[11:37] Marianne McCann is looking forward to some finish to the edgs of Bay City nd upper Shermerville some day in the distant future

[11:38] Talarus Luan: Just make sure it is more than a single OS sim bridging continents.. would hate to see a griefer use camping bots to fill up the av slots and block all traffic. :-/

'''[11:38] Jack Linden: Drongle: this was an idea we had some time ago but have only just come to doing. Basically we want a space where we can have permanent monuments etc for world disasters and SL residents that we have sadly lost.

'''[11:38] Jack Linden: Somewhere quiet and where people can spend time to remember

[11:38] Ewan Mureaux: policies that went astray etc

[11:38] Rem Nightfire: that would be wonderful jack

[11:38] Marianne McCann: Would this replace the work done by volunteers in Biloxi and Big Easy? Hate to see the "remembrance garden" go away

[11:38] Alexxa Despres: Ewan :-P

[11:38] Cristalle Karami: that's a very lovely gesture.

'''[11:39] Jack Linden: it's always very sad when we hear of residents that have passed, and it felt as if we needed somewhere to remember them

[11:39] Rem Nightfire: yes if you want assistance from residents for that, count me in

[11:39] xstorm Radek: that be great

[11:39] Seany1235 Blinker: great idea

'''[11:39] Jack Linden: Marianne.. i think those places are great.. and if they'd like to contribute something to the Linden space then even better

[11:40] Marianne McCann: Jack - I was one of the resident builders and do have a backup of that garden

'''[11:40] Jack Linden: We'll probably have to steer clear of things that are overtly religious or political though. As you'd probably expect

[11:40] Marianne McCann nods

'''[11:40] Jack Linden: Marianne.. let Michael or Brent know. they are watching over the building there

[11:41] Marianne McCann: Can do. They seem to mostly just want it to be mole controlled, so I'm not sure what the plan is on that

[11:41] Fontte Newbold: That is, until you realize how lucrative lobbying can be. Oh, wait.

[11:41] Cristalle Karami: lol Fontte

'''[11:41] Jack Linden: :)

[11:41] Equinox Pinion: lol

[11:42] xstorm Radek: Jack i seen on Xstreet that we can no longer get terminals any more unless its linden land ? If some one abbandon land to have a Xstreet put on then can that be done ?

'''[11:42] Jack Linden: xstorm, I'm really not sure. I think abandoned land would just get recycled as normal, we're not going to preserve it as protected land

[11:43] Equinox Pinion: xstorm...soon you will not use them anymore

[11:43] Cristalle Karami: Jack, how close do you think we are to having full sims of mainland back on auction?

[11:43] Dennis Lagan: slx and sl accounts will be merged

[11:43] Elanthius Flagstaff: And when are we getting the economic stats page back?

[11:43] xstorm Radek: I do not wish to see that done

'''[11:44] Jack Linden: Cristalle. I expect the market could probably absorb some at this point, but not the constant flow that we had previously. We've not made any decisions to put more out rigth now though

[11:44] Ciaran Laval: Well we're going to have a unified login so it's bound to happen

[11:44] Drongle McMahon: After the recession, Elanthius? :-)

[11:44] xstorm Radek: the TOS do not permit that unless some one will redefine the TOS again to let xstreet do that

[11:44] Ciaran Laval: Xstreet are LL now

[11:44] Dennis Lagan: xstreet is lindenlab

'''[11:44] Jack Linden: Elanthius.. once we have a set of good data to push out there really.

[11:44] Equinox Pinion: lol

[11:45] Elanthius Flagstaff: Oh, how high do you rate the chances that paypal will ban SL transactions because of all the adult activity?

[11:45] Cristalle Karami: even if the sim was abandoned? i saw one that apparently was abandoned, and it's purple with an assigned number.... will that go into limbo?

[11:45] xstorm Radek: it do not matter Xstreet is still setup under 3rd party software thats not part of LL

[11:45] Talarus Luan: Yes, it is taking a while to get out those stubborn bad data points :P

[11:45] Elanthius Flagstaff: Man, someone abandoned a full sim?

[11:45] Equinox Pinion: where do you have that rumor from

[11:45] Dennis Lagan: lindenlab bought it all.

'''[11:45] Jack Linden: I've no info on that Elanthius, but itwould seem extremely unlikely

[11:45] Dennis Lagan: lindenlab outsources stuff too, so i do"nt see the problem

[11:46] Dennis Lagan: and who says it wil lstill be when the accounts gets merged?

'''[11:46] Jack Linden: Cristalle.. if it has an auction id then at some point it will be auctioned

[11:46] xstorm Radek: unless LL takes down Xstreet and puts it on the SecondLife web site it will not be in the TOS rules

[11:47] Equinox Pinion: but in the xstreets TOS

[11:47] Talarus Luan: O.o that doesn't have anything to do with it, xstorm. It can be whatever LL wants it to be, and I am sure it will have either its own ToS, or link to the existing one.

[11:47] xstorm Radek: pluss Xstreet has not one Vending system at all

[11:47] Talarus Luan: That's a good thing. :)

[11:47] Bushido Contepomi: Jack: What should we do about the existing donut holes in/on our properties at this time?

[11:47] Equinox Pinion: but they wrote they are thinking about making one

[11:48] xstorm Radek: then why bother with Xstreet any more just close it and start over

[11:48] Talarus Luan: Personally, I would prefer a standard API and let vendor makers make vendors which integrate with that API

[11:48] xstorm Radek: that souns better

'''[11:48] Jack Linden: Bushido.. I would hang on while we address the micro parcels more generally. you may find the price droppingon them etc

[11:48] xstorm Radek: Talarus that will work

[11:49] Dennis Lagan: prolly because xstreet was a danger. many many secondlife users have an account there. when xstreet would start to offer services to a different virtual world, many sl users would eventually give it a try.

[11:49] Ewan Mureaux: when will they be adressed and when will see an actual policy?

[11:49] Talarus Luan: I don't see much point in LL making the only "standard" vendors.

[11:49] Equinox Pinion: agree talarus

[11:49] xstorm Radek: having inworld venders as long as they stay on the secondlife servers stays with in the TOS

[11:50] Talarus Luan: I certainly wouldn't use them.

[11:50] Marianne McCann: Time f'r me to scoot - have fun all!

[11:50] Talarus Luan: Take care, Mari :)

'''[11:50] Jack Linden: byeee

[11:50] Equinox Pinion: take cae marianne

[11:50] Marianne McCann: Bye Bye!!

[11:51] Dennis Lagan: bye!

[11:51] Talarus Luan: OK, so a few more weeks before we start flooding the AR channels, then?

[11:51] Cristalle Karami: tc Mari

[11:51] Talarus Luan: (for the microparcel issues, that is)

[11:51] xstorm Radek: yep

'''[11:51] Jack Linden: Ewan, i doubt there will be a specific policy just for doughnut parcels, but we will generally be pushing to get the number of 16m parcels down and the prices more reasonable

[11:52] Drongle McMahon: How?

[11:52] Cuddlebug Clowes: will the owners of the land that have these donuts in them have first option to buy?

[11:52] Talarus Luan: I just want to see the harassment and extortion end, regardless of the microparcel configuration.

[11:52] Elanthius Flagstaff gets busy cutting mobius strips out of land.

[11:53] Ewan Mureaux: ok because some people are sort of "mooning" you over the policy like the new cuts in jubata

[11:53] Talarus Luan: Though, sometimes, the microparcel configuration, by itself, represents the harassment and extortion.

[11:53] Drongle McMahon: The only push that will work is a financial incentive. It doesn't need to be punitive.

[11:53] Rem Nightfire: its long long overdue these extortion plots have been in place for over a year in many cases

[11:53] xstorm Radek: but i have a lot of work to do with no longer having any Onrez venders inworld any place i may have to use a german site that says they can do what Xstreet no longer and do any more

'''[11:53] Jack Linden: I think we have to see how it goes. If the big owners of micro parcels are not prepared to work with us to improve the mainland, then we mayhave to take other steps. But fundamentally, we are going to improve things as any estate owner would

[11:53] Cristalle Karami: there is a commerce office hours this afternoon... i think it's with Grant Linden. it's on the wiki

[11:53] Dennis Lagan: well, if that gets to big, they will eventually buy it too

[11:54] Ciaran Laval: When?

[11:54] Cristalle Karami: 2pm SLT

[11:54] Ciaran Laval: Ah interesting

[11:54] Seany1235 Blinker: ok i have to run work calls bye all take care

[11:54] Equinox Pinion: there are still people who use these 16sm parcels in the correct way

[11:54] Talarus Luan: I hope so, Jack. :) I can say finally that it is about time.

[11:55] Ciaran Laval: How's the work on the new roads going Jack?

'''[11:55] Jack Linden: :) okay i have to dash in a moment, have another inworld meeting to get to and I need a hot drink.

[11:56] Cristalle Karami: thanks Jack

'''[11:56] Jack Linden: new rods keep going! we'll probably run out of roads to complete in a couple of months time

[11:56] Rem Nightfire: thanks jack keep plugging

'''[11:56] Jack Linden: *roads

[11:56] Equinox Pinion: take care ajck

[11:56] Equinox Pinion: ooops

[11:56] Brie Janick: Ty Jack

[11:56] Qie Niangao: thanks for hosting Jack

[11:56] Bushido Contepomi: Thanks for the meeting , and update Jack:)

[11:56] xstorm Radek: Jack why did not LL just convert the Onrez venders to Xstreet venders and make the Xstreet system all inworld ?

[11:56] Jean Swashbuckler: ty Jack

[11:56] Ciaran Laval: Cheers Jack

'''[11:56] Jack Linden: thanks all! take care!

[11:56] Cristalle Karami: ask Grant at the commerce office hours, xstorm

[11:56] Melodie Darwin: thanks Jack

[11:56] Cristalle Karami: this is an estate meeting

'''[11:56] Jack Linden: xstorm.. not my area i'm afraid so I'm really not sure

[[Category:Jack Linden Office Hours]]

User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2009-03-12

2009-04-30T20:32:33Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2009-03-12 moved to User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-03-12: Refactoring

#REDIRECT [[User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-03-12]]

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-03-12

2009-04-30T20:32:33Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2009-03-12 moved to User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-03-12: Refactoring

'''[12:04] Jack Linden: hello hello!

[12:04] Melodie Darwin: hi Jack

[12:04] Dytska Vieria: Hi Jack, good afternoon!

[12:04] Jonit Ivory: Hi

[12:04] Driftwood Miles: hello Jack

[12:04] Uni Ninetails: Hiya Jack

[12:04] Fontte Newbold: Guess what? Good news.

[12:05] Drongle McMahon: I told you .... he didn't know about DST.

[12:05] Fontte Newbold: You get to wake up an hour early like the rest of us now :D

[12:05] Fontte Newbold: Or move the hours to reflect SLT. :)

[12:05] Ciaran Laval: Ye Gods I forgot about that

'''[12:05] Jack Linden: :) I'm in SF at the moment so my times are pretty messed up which has been fun

[12:06] Fontte Newbold: That'd do it! Given the hashish cloud sort of hovers over Silicon Valley... :D

'''[12:06] Jack Linden: anyway, how are we all.. ? i've the next hour to talk through stuff so who has something to bring up?

[12:06] Melodie Darwin: Jack, my kid was going to be entering the teen grid in a few weeks. The issue of a merged grid keeps getting non-answers. As a parent there is NOOOOOO way I would let my kid near a merged grid even if there is a Porn Town seperated. LL cannot control the possibilities of who a teen could meet. It sounds more like the start of a Dateline predators special. Can you please give some real answers on this? (As is my kid will wait until turning 18 at this point).

[12:06] Drongle McMahon: Well, sitting here for an hour has not been fun. Took of work early and have to go back now.

[12:07] Ciaran Laval: If you're going to merge the grids spit it out now so business owners can plan, seriously Jack this needs early warning.

[12:07] Charlene Trudeau: hiya, Jack

[12:07] Drongle McMahon: I wanted to ask whether you could get something done to clean up Govenor Linden plots with litter, banlies etc.

[12:07] Dytska Vieria: There have been 16's for auction.

'''[12:07] Jack Linden: Melodie, i think your question is a very serious one and I agree it is difficult right now as we work through todays blog post. Have you asked that question in the related forums?

[12:07] Drongle McMahon: They are proliferating. You could get a bot to set the autoreturn etc.

'''[12:08] Jack Linden: Sorry Drongle.. feel free to throw me an email on that

[12:08] Melodie Darwin: others have, it still is getting non answers

[12:08] Drongle McMahon: have to go now.... bye alll.

[12:08] Talarus Luan: Ciao Drongle

[12:08] Uni Ninetails: Bai

'''[12:08] Jack Linden: As it stands right now, merging or not merging, those are not related to the announcement at all. this isn't a prelude to anything relating to TG

[12:09] Melodie Darwin: is it even a possibility?

'''[12:09] Jack Linden: So melodie, I'd be inclined to just go ahead as if the TG will remain as it is now.

[12:09] Marianne McCann: Back again at the other 11:00

'''[12:10] Jack Linden: Well, it's one of many possibilities so I wouldn't rule it out but neither do we have plans to do that. So I'd go ahead and assume no change

[12:11] Ciaran Laval: It's a question you should not keep avoiding. There are major implications if the grids merge, someone should make a statement

[12:11] Marianne McCann: Even if the statement is "There are no plans to do this within 2009, but we are exploring this possibility in the far future?"

'''[12:11] Jack Linden: Ciaran, i'll pass that on to the folks who are handling todays post but all we'd be able to say is that there is no change currently planned.

[12:11] Melodie Darwin: how far in advance would something like that even be announced? Even if I let her on the TG now, I wouldn't if its a possibility because she would be DONE the second there was a merge

[12:12] Ciaran Laval: Sensibly it should be at least six months to give people time to adjust.

[12:12] Ewan Mureaux: so what does this mean for land Jack, whats going to happen, straight wswaps for pornoville?

[12:12] Uni Ninetails: Imho Business plans dont work well on assumptions.

[12:12] Qie Niangao: About the Mainland Segregation Act of 2009: How will the new, adults-okay land get handed out, and how will you dispose of the vast emptiness left on the existing continents?

'''[12:12] Jack Linden: again, i can't really speculate on speculation.. as it stands, we've no plans to change it.

[12:12] Fontte Newbold: If it were me, I'd wait until LL itself even knew what the policy was. Sounds to me like you're inquiring at the memo and internal email phase.

[12:13] Kyrion Yalin: Greetings

[12:13] Fontte Newbold: Though as an observation, it's usually better to include residents in making these kinds of decisions. :)

'''[12:13] Jack Linden: I do think that Ciaran is right, big changes take time to work through so nothing will happen suddenly

[12:14] Ewan Mureaux: ok how about something they are supposed to have a policy on but we still havent actually seen. Jack what do I do about donut holes in my land where the owner is unresponsive, are you actually going to do anything about it or what? And if so what route do I take?

[12:14] Charlene Trudeau: like this one on the adult content?

[12:14] Ciaran Laval: or Openspaces....

'''[12:14] Jack Linden: Ewan, you'll see some more info on that i'm sure but we'll be trying to make any changes individuals have to make as seamless as we can

[12:14] Talarus Luan: When?

[12:14] Ciaran Laval: Wouldn't it be better to create a G-Rated continent and let if grow organically rather than shifting people around like this and causing unease in the land market?

[12:14] Ewan Mureaux: after the post about traffic bots?

[12:15] Qie Niangao: "Unease", Ciaran? That's a nice way of putting it!

'''[12:15] Jack Linden: Yes Fontte, we've started a conversation and given some information on general direction. We're now looking for feedback and comment

[12:15] Ewan Mureaux: its a novel idea but it would be great if you got your house in order before you built a new porno patio

'''[12:16] Jack Linden: At the simplest level, we're just looking at making the experience more predictable. Just as you wouldn't expect to see very graphic imagery in the NYTimes frontpage, that material is still available but you would choose to go find it.

[12:16] Ciaran Laval: lol Qie you have to put things nicely here, it's only a mature sim ;)

[12:17] Fontte Newbold: As a meta-issue, standardizing the communication process is probably a good route. It at least gives people the chance to be part of the process. :)

[12:17] Fontte Newbold: But I digress.

[12:17] Fontte Newbold: Seeing as that's why we're here.

[12:17] Melodie Darwin: Will there be a channel to proactively answer if something is adult enough to move to the porn ghetto? There are alot of shades of grey... romantic, cuddle, suggestive dance poseballs. Publicly accessible sex beds, but not in a sex club. etc. (And will this mean that G-Team will have office hours again?) It would be nice to not have to defend against warnings etc if possible.

[12:17] Ciaran Laval: But I can buy adult material in the same store that sells the NY Times, the store doesn't get shifted to Pornoville

[12:17] Talarus Luan: Well, don't you all already have this defined in the ToS and via the Mature/PG ratings system? What else are your trying to add?

[12:17] Qie Niangao: The vast majority of M land contains only PG content. The vast majority of the Adult continent will *also* contain only PG content. People just don't want to be told they can't have adult content, ever.

[12:17] Fontte Newbold: I think we need a new rating: "CYA"

'''[12:17] Jack Linden: Melodie, i do expect that picture will get clearer over time yes

[12:18] Ciaran Laval: Whereas there are no alcohol sales on Cadbury family land, hence you can opt into that if you want to live there

[12:18] Ewan Mureaux: when all the residents say CYA laters i'm off to another platform?

'''[12:18] Jack Linden: Ciaran, yes but you've made that choice. You're not having that material just pushed in front of you as you walk to work

[12:18] Ciaran Laval: Your TOS already covers that Jack, it shouldn't be in my face even in a mature sim.

[12:19] Talarus Luan: You don't have that now, Jack.

[12:19] Ewan Mureaux: but Jack we already have community standars covering that broadly visible mature content

[12:19] Marianne McCann will be right back.

[12:19] Talarus Luan: If you are in a PG sim, there BETTER NOT be any Mature material in your face.

[12:19] Ciaran Laval: You've got this totally arse about face

[12:19] Talarus Luan: Otherwise, you can AR it and have it removed right now.

[12:20] Charlene Trudeau: so this allows for an area for sex on the beach and so on?

[12:20] Qie Niangao: (as if suddenly this will keep the goatse particles out of sandboxes on the "clean" mainland)

[12:20] Talarus Luan: People who wear their prim genitalia in a PG sim also can (and do) get ARed.

[12:20] Fontte Newbold: Ewan: CYA, as in, "Cover Your Ass" :p

[12:20] Charlene Trudeau: perhaps we're looking at it all wrong, that its not so much limiting what exists as adding onto? <trying to keep a straight face>

'''[12:20] Jack Linden: Well, i definitely urge you to put those views in the forums so that we can get the input. Those are the opinions we need to hear

[12:20] Fontte Newbold: The whole point of ratings systems for businesses. :D

[12:21] Talarus Luan: Well, I mean, isn't that common sense? Does it really need to be pointed out? I feel like Captain Obvious making those points.

[12:22] Talarus Luan: Well, maybe in terms of asking for clarification, but so far, even clarification on existing questions is about as clear as mud. :-/

[12:22] Ewan Mureaux: like every other policy ever?

'''[12:22] Jack Linden: :) I'm sure that we'll see lots of different perspectives in the replies, and clearer replies from the team handling it will come from that

[12:22] Kyrion Yalin: Jack, why are you loosing your time with minor problems, when you have lots of big problems to deal with?

[12:23] Fontte Newbold: Unfortunately, common sense isn't all that common. And gets us people that wear their genetalia in "cloak" mode instead of putting it away. :p

'''[12:23] Jack Linden: That's why it's a dialogue, which we're finding to be incredibly useful as we tackle these hard questions

[12:23] Talarus Luan: Yeah, I kinda see this as tangential to the bigger fish we need to fry. :)

[12:23] Kyrion Yalin: Mature and PG has always been part of SL, and people can live with it

[12:23] Talarus Luan: Like the remaining land parasites whom you all "talking to" doesn't seem to be having much effect.

[12:24] Melodie Darwin: I have been finding good ol' fashioned ad farming on high priced parcels... the AR's of which still have not gotten them removed. How will the AR system be any better when its not responding to things which violated the TOS since last year?

[12:24] Fontte Newbold: Ultimately, it's a question of reasonable expectations of content.

'''[12:24] Jack Linden: Kyrion.. there are folks handling this blog post which is obviously strongly linked to land but isn't detracting from our efforts to work on land improvements

[12:24] Fontte Newbold: As far as I'm aware, the resident should bear the burden for that.

[12:24] Talarus Luan: We've also got listings of people violating the adfarm policy, using a form of "group affiliate" to get around the 50 limit

[12:24] Fontte Newbold: Leaving blanket systems like "PG" and "Mature" to give an overarching structure upon which to base their decisions.

[12:24] Ciaran Laval: Is that Rez Ads Talarus?

[12:24] Melodie Darwin: and networked ads which are no mod and not phantom

[12:25] Fontte Newbold: Ahhh yes, affiliate networks...

[12:25] Talarus Luan: Yeah RezAds

'''[12:25] Jack Linden: Melodie, send me those AR numbers. But my impression from the team is that we're at a 100% clear rate on those right now so let me dig into that

[12:25] Talarus Luan: and DAD Bingyi

[12:25] Melodie Darwin: hes had multiple signs right next to each other

'''[12:26] Jack Linden: Tal.. I think we've been looking at that issue recently as it came up in the data. I'll look into it more

[12:27] Talarus Luan: OK. That's what we have on the matter.

'''[12:27] Jack Linden: thanks, passing it on now

[12:28] Ewan Mureaux: Jack can you tell us one thing that is like an absolute fact regarding land cutting and all that, just one actual thing that we could take away with us, that would be cool, no more waiting maybe, we will announce, we are discussing

[12:28] Talarus Luan: As to the microparcel extortion issues, Prince has put his 96sqm roadside back up for L$19999. While it isn't a donut hole or a piece of a larger cut plot anymore, it's just another one of his "eat me" activities.

[12:29] Ciaran Laval: I'm not seeing much change at all on the 16M parcels near me.

[12:29] Talarus Luan: Yeah, Primlands hasn't changed near me

[12:29] Timo Daehlie: jack last week over 26 volunteers helped to rejoin microlplots, over 600 of them were offered and rejoined with bordering neighbours. can you understand they were a bit shocked that later on this week Lindenlabs offered 16m2s in land list for like L$ 1 per m2, ready to be picked up by extorioners

'''[12:29] Jack Linden: Sure Ewan, let me see.. we've identified the top 30 accounts which equates to 18 or so individuals. We've spoken to almost all of those now and are setting expectation of our timeline for them to resolve their own holdings down

[12:29] Ewan Mureaux: the only thing that appears to have happened is that the one legit 16m parcel owner has given his to Arbor

[12:29] Qie Niangao: Right: at current prices, I'd be better off just abandoning my existing land and starting over, compared with paying-off all the extortionists in and around me (Prince & Primlands, mostly)

'''[12:29] Jack Linden: That includes talking about price and sheer number of microparcels.

[12:30] Talarus Luan: Oh? Anything you can share with us regarding timelines?

[12:30] Kyrion Yalin: Yes Timo, we are working to clear mainland and Lindens are doing exectly the invers. Is this normal, Jack?

'''[12:31] Jack Linden: Now we're just keeping that going to ensure we're seeing significant change over the next few weeks. If we're not seeing that commitment then we'll have to look at the next steps we have to take.

[12:31] Talarus Luan: O.o

[12:31] Dytska Vieria: I think they are laughing.

[12:31] Talarus Luan: Yeah, I know they are. :-/

'''[12:31] Jack Linden: Timo.. when did we do that?

[12:31] Talarus Luan: I would be.

[12:31] Timo Daehlie: this week jack

'''[12:32] Jack Linden: Was that through auction?

[12:32] Timo Daehlie: chaos mohr did sent you a notecard and i also have written down auction numbers

[12:32] Timo Daehlie: yes

[12:32] Timo Daehlie: got two examples for you

[12:32] Ewan Mureaux: no not through auction, throug hsearch

'''[12:32] Jack Linden: okay.. i get zillions of notecards so it can be tough to get to them all

[12:32] Qie Niangao: you know damned well that Prince and Hallard will never move to any timeline other than direct confiscation.

[12:32] Ewan Mureaux: in general land sales

[12:33] Timo Daehlie: id 2620284716 + 26201412

[12:35] Talarus Luan: I think the incredulity in the dialogue so far comes from the "what's my incentive to comply?" route. "We expect you to comply and reduce your holdings and/or prices in an effort to recombine microparcels." "OK. Or else what?"

'''[12:35] Jack Linden: Timo, will look at that. We shouldn't be doing open sale on micro-parcels

[12:35] Timo Daehlie: we thaught so

[12:35] Talarus Luan: I mean, they may not SAY "or else what?" to you, but you KNOW they are thinking it.

'''[12:36] Jack Linden: Tal, if those groups are not prepared to work with us to improve the mainland, then we will have to do whatever is necessary to fix it. Our motivation is simply around making Mainland as good as it can be

[12:36] Ewan Mureaux: just bloody do it then

[12:36] Melodie Darwin: even if they are reducing their holdings, they are still getting picked up by land flippers

[12:36] Ewan Mureaux: over a year of threatening them

[12:36] Ewan Mureaux: and NOTHING

[12:37] Ewan Mureaux: we'll take this from you and that but we wont go to the route of the problem

[12:37] Talarus Luan: Oh, it's a noble cause, to be sure. The issue is that you're not giving THEM much in the way of motivation, other than some nebulous future threat of action.

[12:37] Talarus Luan: I mean, isn't the whole point of setting a timeline and expectations intended to be inclusive of the consequences of non-compliance?

[12:37] Qie Niangao: Frankly, I think they expect to be able to get their asking price from LL

[12:37] Talarus Luan: Not "we'll cross that bridge when we get to it".

[12:38] Ewan Mureaux: dont put stuff on your land, ok put stuff but make it in these guidleines. oh well you better rejoin it or else!

[12:38] Kyrion Yalin: Talarus, i would say, any action

'''[12:38] Jack Linden: Well, I'm not in those conversations directly so I don't know exactly how the governance folks are handling the first conversations. But we don't want this to be a long drawn out thing, we want significant improvement and soon

[12:38] Ewan Mureaux: so in the next year where they wait for your next stern talking to the are extorting thousands from people who are too sick and tired of them or dont know any better

[12:38] Talarus Luan: Well, don't you think you should be at least privy to those conversations?

[12:39] Fontte Newbold: Or bring a representative to these meetings? :p

[12:39] Ciaran Laval: The longer it goes on the more likely we are to see new people entering the game of microparcel plot sales.

[12:39] Talarus Luan: I mean, this is looked at as your ball of wax.

[12:39] Qie Niangao: What movement have we seen, at all? MLGHK decided to sell a few of their ad parcels at only mid-extortion prices, and good ol' Elan gave all his away.

[12:39] Talarus Luan: Cytherea changed sides.

[12:39] Qie Niangao: ah, good point.

[12:40] Ciaran Laval: Elan would give them away to neighbours most of the time anyway

'''[12:40] Jack Linden: I only wish I could be in that many places at once! But I have to delegate and act as the escalation point. It's a process and I get that it isn't going quickly enough for you guys.

[12:40] Fontte Newbold: I believe the technical term is, "Jumped the shark."

[12:40] Talarus Luan: We HAVE seen movement, no doubt, but it's not really having much of an effect on those whom we didn't expect it to have much effect on, namely, Prince and Austin

[12:40] Talarus Luan: That's what good ol' reports are for. :D

[12:40] Talarus Luan: Not the TPS kind, though. >.>

'''[12:41] Jack Linden: Qie.. there have been some swings actually, the volume of 16m parcels for sale is heading down, the L$ value of those is also dropping

[12:41] Ewan Mureaux: the artificially inflated value that is not the true value

[12:41] Talarus Luan: From what I know of Prince, he won't change until you pry his land from his cold, permabanned fingers.

[12:41] Qie Niangao: I've seen some 16s combined into larger 32, 48, 64 microparcels, still for sale at high prices.

'''[12:41] Jack Linden: it's both Ewan, it's the value Set and the transacted value of those sold

[12:42] Coko Cale: lol

[12:42] Talarus Luan: Well, he has stated utter contempt for LL quite a number of times in chat to several people.

[12:43] Ewan Mureaux: still i have say one of our plots 61,000m 4 cuts right in the middle within say a 50m square you know they completely devalue the res of the sim, how is that not another form of harassment?

[12:43] Talarus Luan: Hell, at one point, he even BLAMED LL for "forcing" him into the business of landcutting/extortion to begin with.

[12:43] Qie Niangao: Fair enough, Jack: you can't see all this happening first-hand. But improvements are few and far-between so far.

[12:43] Melodie Darwin: so what can be done in the meantime regarding donut holes? Ewan asked earlier, and my ticket regarding one is still open

[12:43] Kyrion Yalin: last week i ve seen Austin's 16sqm sold at $9999

[12:44] Talarus Luan: I've also got bits and pieces of a 256sqm square plot that was checkerboarded by him, but that Harry evicted him from in the corner of Great Pubnico.

[12:44] Talarus Luan: The four corners are owned by LL now.

[12:44] Talarus Luan: Gov Linden

[12:44] Ewan Mureaux: so real people are being taken for real dollars while you dilly-dally around pleading with people to give up their "business"

[12:44] Melodie Darwin: (I had ARd it previously with no response there either)

[12:44] Talarus Luan: But I still have a Primlands NFS hole, and an Excellence network adspot cut out of it, too.

'''[12:45] Jack Linden: Doughnut holes.. if it's clearly scamming, we'll deal with through governance. If people inherit a doughnut shaped parcel fairly, that's harder to really fix unless there is a land swap we can do to resolve it.

'''[12:45] Jack Linden: But that needs the owner of the hole and doughnut to agree.

[12:45] Melodie Darwin: it became a donut because the auction parcel that had it in there

'''[12:45] Jack Linden: Melodie, are you saying that we auctioned a doughnut shaped parcel?

[12:46] Melodie Darwin: yes

[12:46] Talarus Luan: Well, some donut owners need a bit of arm-twisting to get them to agree. :)

'''[12:46] Jack Linden: Ah okay. That doesn't sound cool.

[12:46] Qie Niangao: OFFS. A donut hole is a donut hole, however it got there. Any estate manager would just frickin' *fix* it.

[12:46] Uni Ninetails nods

[12:46] Talarus Luan: Well, that's what Harry did in GP.

[12:46] Melodie Darwin: if all of the abandoned land is combined and auctioned as one parcel, it doesnt resolve those and only perpetuates it

[12:47] Talarus Luan: I mean, I am happy (mostly) for how the situation in GP has turned out. However, it needs to happen all over the grid.

[12:47] Qie Niangao: well, I've got four or five of those scarred burnt-out adfarms in my vicinity... can I expect Harry to have to respond to each of them individually? That can't be cost-effective.

'''[12:48] Jack Linden: hmm, so maybe we need to be more proactive about fixing the land up. by the way, when we come across 16s owned by Arbor.. that we could use to create better/larger parcels.. how do you guys want to deal with that Timo?

[12:49] Talarus Luan: Just let Timo know, and they are yours, I would presume. :)

[12:49] Timo Daehlie: just drop a notecard ;)

[12:49] Ewan Mureaux: I think arbor need to be careful in releasing them to LL since they may just be sold at extortion rates through auction

[12:49] Ewan Mureaux: just an opinion :/

[12:49] Talarus Luan: That or just take em, but inform that they were taken. I suppose that would need explicit permission, though.

[12:49] Talarus Luan: Yeah.. that has to stop.

[12:50] Dytska Vieria: Expedient would be better than Proactive.

'''[12:50] Jack Linden: Timo.. would you guys be okay with us taking those?

[12:50] Timo Daehlie: yes

[12:50] Qie Niangao: Heh. Timo should have held out for a "timeline" :p

[12:50] Talarus Luan chuckles

[12:50] Timo Daehlie: you have our permission

[12:50] Melodie Darwin: so there isnt anything I can do except pay the extortionate rate for the donut?

[12:51] Talarus Luan: yeah, you all need to get a handle on auctioning microparcels right damn now. That is throwing kegs of black powder into a bonfire.

[12:52] Ciaran Laval: yeah Timo play hardball ;)

'''[12:52] Jack Linden: Yeah, I'll remind the team that we don't auction 16s or doughnuts, or eclairs.

[12:52] Fontte Newbold: Mm, twinkies.

[12:52] Talarus Luan: or waffles :D

[12:52] Timo Daehlie: ;)

'''[12:52] Jack Linden: definitely not waffles

[12:52] Charlene Trudeau: lol

[12:52] Uni Ninetails: hehe

[12:52] Ciaran Laval: No Twinky talk!

[12:52] Fontte Newbold: :D

[12:52] Talarus Luan: OK. So, again, regarding timelines. What should *we* expect?

'''[12:53] Jack Linden: with regards to which bit Tal.. ?

[12:53] Fontte Newbold: Besides an address and a shotgun, gratis.

[12:53] Ewan Mureaux: Q3?

[12:53] Talarus Luan: The part where the extortionist folks have to clean up their messes before you come back with your next requirements discussion with them.

[12:54] Fontte Newbold: Basically, where's the carrot and the stick for fixing their land?

'''[12:54] Jack Linden: Ah i see. If you guys aren't seeing significant change this time next month, you can come prod me. But you really should see some changes soon

[12:54] Talarus Luan: Well, more to the point, when should we expect to come back with the torches and pitchforks next?

[12:54] Ewan Mureaux: is soon next to resolved in the SL? dictionary?

'''[12:55] Jack Linden: It's hard because i obviously can't talk about the details of other residents and their accounts. But there has been progress, agreement etc already on some fronts.

'''[12:55] Jack Linden: But with thousands of parcels it takes some time

[12:55] Melodie Darwin: some:/

[12:55] Talarus Luan: Well, you don't have to talk about specific cases, but you would have had to come to some kind of general plan before you went and talked with them, I would presume?

[12:55] Ewan Mureaux: its not like you spoke to them and they went "oh that, I didn;t think I was bothering anyone"

[12:56] Ciaran Laval: lol Ewan

'''[12:56] Jack Linden: :)

[12:56] Talarus Luan: That general plan is what we want to know about, because, really, it directly impacts *us*.

[12:57] Talarus Luan: So, by April 12th, if there hasn't been "satisfactory" movement, we are to come back here and expect ... what?

[12:57] Dytska Vieria: May 12th...

[12:57] Qie Niangao: lol Dytska

'''[12:57] Jack Linden: let me see if I can get a clear status, anonymised, for next week. i'll try to bring some data with me

[12:57] Kyrion Yalin: Jack, how many times will you say 'you will see significant changes soon' before you can say 'guys it s resolved' ?

[12:57] Dytska Vieria: a form of lag.

[12:57] Talarus Luan: Sshhh... I am trying to be serious here.. I know it is hard. :P

[12:57] Kyrion Yalin: you don t stop saying that

[12:58] Talarus Luan: Stop before I channel Inigo Montoya. :P

'''[12:58] Jack Linden: :)

[12:58] Talarus Luan: I SOOO need to upload that as a gesture sound bite. :D

[12:59] Fontte Newbold: My name is Inigo Montoya, you are an ad farmer, prepare to die?

[12:59] Charlene Trudeau: if you do, please share <G>

[12:59] Charlene Trudeau: lol

[12:59] Charlene Trudeau: roflmao

'''[12:59] Jack Linden: Kyrion.. i get that you guys want this to be quick (or at least less slow), but we go as quickly as time and resource allows.

[12:59] Talarus Luan: "You keeping using that word; I do not think it means what you think it means."

[12:59] Ewan Mureaux: maybe we should all move to porno-continent when it comes online as it will presumable be an offense to cut that up

[12:59] Talarus Luan: Well, no, Jack, if we wanted it quick, we would have expected it done in a week or so. We've become accustomed to the month/year timelines of LL by now. :)

[12:59] Ciaran Laval: Sure Jack that's fair enough but we'd like to see a little progress

[13:00] Dytska Vieria: Is there going to be a blog about bots anytime soon?

'''[13:00] Jack Linden: Dytska.. yes. We just want to make sure we can be definitive (ironically so that we can enact change more quickly)

'''[13:01] Jack Linden: I'm down to talk about Bots next Tues or Wed currently.

[13:01] Melodie Darwin volunteers her neighbors stripper bots to move to porn town first

[13:01] Uni Ninetails: Established frame work expedites future actions...

[13:01] Fontte Newbold: We have much work to do before we can report our total failure to make any progress.

[13:01] Uni Ninetails snorts

[13:02] Talarus Luan: Heh.. Prince's camping spot in oh.. where was that sim, Timo? .. should be next. :P

[13:02] Timo Daehlie: ragdol

[13:02] Melodie Darwin: lol

'''[13:03] Jack Linden: :) okays, I'd best go and make some magic happen. thanks all for sticking around and apologies for the DST mixup!

[13:03] Timo Daehlie: 4-corners & her 40 alts HQ

[13:03] Qie Niangao: thanks, Jack.

[13:03] Talarus Luan: Is OK. Back to normal time next week?

[13:03] Melodie Darwin: thanks

[13:03] Uni Ninetails: thanks

[13:03] Marianne McCann: Bye Bye!!

[13:03] Alexxa Despres: Bye ;)

[13:03] Ciaran Laval: Cheers Jack

[13:03] Fontte Newbold: Well, the normal time offset by one hour. :p

[13:03] Fontte Newbold: *mumble mumble DST*

'''[13:04] Jack Linden: hehe. did you guys see the Tonight Live broadcast by the way?

[13:04] Dytska Vieria: The sign needs to be changed to PDT as well.

[13:04] Ciaran Laval: This is the normal time for me!

[13:04] Kyrion Yalin: Bye Jack, see you next week

[13:04] Talarus Luan: Nup. What's that?

[13:04] Uni Ninetails: No but im living in a box with wifi atm

'''[13:04] Jack Linden: I was guest on Tonight Live.. which was just incredibly fun.

'''[13:04] Jack Linden: http://www.slcn.tv/tonight-live-paisley-beebe-08mar2009

[13:05] Uni Ninetails: ooo ty

[13:05] Qie Niangao: cool!

[13:05] Ciaran Laval: dang I was going to go to that, I remember then that US clocks had gone forward so it was an hour earlier

[13:05] Fontte Newbold: 50/50 this will crash Firefox.

'''[13:05] Jack Linden: anyways must run. bye for now!

[[Category:Jack Linden Office Hours]]

User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2009-03-05

2009-04-30T20:32:26Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2009-03-05 moved to User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-03-05: Refactoring

#REDIRECT [[User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-03-05]]

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-03-05

2009-04-30T20:32:26Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2009-03-05 moved to User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-03-05: Refactoring

'''[11:02] Jack Linden: helllooo!

[11:02] xstorm Radek: hi jack

[11:02] Jean Swashbuckler: been watching that Mari..good progress

[11:02] Charity Colville: Hello Jack...nice to see you

[11:02] Jean Swashbuckler: hi Jack

[11:03] Jack Linden waits for chairs to appear

'''[11:03] Jack Linden: ha stephan, great little avatar

[11:03] Dilbert Dilweg: Hello Equinox :)

[11:03] Equinox Pinion: hi dilbert :)

[11:03] Drongle McMahon waits for Jack to appear

[11:03] Charity Colville: Hiya Equinox

[11:03] Stephan Mrigesh: Thanks Jack

[11:04] Equinox Pinion: Hi charity!

'''[11:04] Jack Linden: ahh nice to see the purple dragon back in place. someone stole it last week

'''[11:04] Jack Linden: anyways, how are we all today?

[11:04] Dilbert Dilweg: Gret Jack!

[11:04] Marianne McCann: Good, good.

[11:05] Charity Colville: Doing great Jack but lots to discuss

'''[11:05] Jack Linden: do you want to kick us off then Charity?

[11:05] Charity Colville: Sure

[11:05] Stephan Mrigesh: Fantastic Thanks Jack, I was thinking on buying up all the land in SL, and renting it out to you folk, so just here to get the land vibe of the week;)

[11:05] Charity Colville: We have been experiencing serious performance issues on our sim that we have been trying hard to fix

[11:06] xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)

'''[11:06] Jack Linden: a modest plan Stephan, I like your thinking!

[11:06] Stephan Mrigesh: lol

'''[11:06] Jack Linden: sounds frustrating Charity.. have you been talking to Concierge about it?

[11:06] Dennis Lagan: a restart makes you often switch to a different server, so if it still continues after that its mostly the content.

[11:07] Charity Colville: yes we have and we have had little help, we restart daily

'''[11:07] Jack Linden: Dennis is right, though we do have the odd simulator bug that creeps in but generally we become aware of those very quickly

[11:07] Charity Colville: However I am told performance issues are not really the topic today

[11:07] Qie Niangao: Charity, is it constant lag, or does it come and go?

[11:07] xstorm Radek: your not getting attacks from any griefers are you

'''[11:07] Jack Linden: it can be tough working through all the content to find the culprit.

[11:08] Drongle McMahon: FJ mentions this problem in his blog today

[11:08] Talarus Luan: .let alone the phantom objects, prims, etc.

[11:08] Talarus Luan: scripts

'''[11:08] Jack Linden: Well charity, anything land or support related is fair game here, but for individual support issues it's difficult to work through those in a group meeting

[11:08] Dytska Vieria: There is a ghost script bug

[11:08] xstorm Radek: there has been sim pirates starting to live up around 4000 in some sims and renting out homes on other peoples sims

[11:08] Ciaran Laval: phantom scripts look like a nightmare

[11:08] Charity Colville: it comes and goes and we have visited other sims with similar traffic and active scripts and they dont have the same fps issues

'''[11:09] Jack Linden: pirates? that's a new one to me.

[11:09] Brie Janick: yes

[11:09] Drongle McMahon: Jack. I hope you received a notecard from Rem Nightfire detailing ongoing land cutting that he has observed. We encountered one new person cutting 40 16sqm plots who did not speak English and had apparently not seen your blog announcement. Perhaps the message needs to be broadcast more effectively.

[11:09] Seany1235 Blinker: yes had themat our sim

[11:09] Talarus Luan: fps issues? is it sim lag, or client lag?

'''[11:09] Jack Linden: Charity, do you have anything that is set Physical?

[11:09] xstorm Radek: yes we have been finding them jack

[11:09] Driftwood Miles: they found oil a bit dangerous

[11:09] Brie Janick: we found someone rezzed 3000prims 4000sq mt in the air

[11:09] Brie Janick: like a small town

[11:09] Charity Colville: sim lag

'''[11:09] Jack Linden: Drongle, yes I did.. and the governance folk are on it

[11:09] Dennis Lagan: just one physical object that went nuts can take the whole sim unusable, we had it once with a boat.

[11:09] Charity Colville: I am not sure if we do Jack

[11:10] Equinox Pinion: you find people like that all the time brie :)

[11:10] xstorm Radek: the odd thing is they found a way to mask there city in the sky from us

'''[11:10] Jack Linden: these pirates, is it just that the land settings are wrong and so they can do stuff on the land that they shouldn't?

[11:10] Charity Colville: hmmmm I will have to check that....Dilbert may know that

[11:10] Dilbert Dilweg: What kind of Boat Dennis?

[11:10] Ciaran Laval: Charity go the slow way and write down your stats somewhere using the statistics bar to find them

[11:10] Charity Colville: we monitor our stats all day

[11:10] Dennis Lagan: think it was a tako or trudeau, nothing special

[11:10] xstorm Radek: the sim settings look right but some how they can rez and not be seen

[11:11] Equinox Pinion: or a helicopter can to that too

[11:11] Seany1235 Blinker: the prims did not even show they where up there

'''[11:11] Jack Linden: Charity.. even a single physical object like a football stuck under a pathway can relly hit performance because the simulator is constantly doing physics calcs on that object

[11:11] Equinox Pinion: but you see that in the top scripts

[11:11] xstorm Radek: it was reading like 1 prim

[11:11] Charity Colville: we will search the sim then

[11:11] Talarus Luan: A lot of that can be discovered in the Estate Tools

[11:11] Talarus Luan: Top Colliders, Top Scripts, etc

[11:11] Equinox Pinion: just check the top scripts when you have a problem again charity

[11:12] Dytska Vieria: This is the ghost script jira: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-3867

[11:12] Khamon Fate: check top colliders

'''[11:12] Jack Linden: thanks dytska

[11:12] Khamon Fate: for physical objects

[11:12] Qie Niangao: Concierge should be able to at least narrow the search... possibly a Forums post would get some folks in to take a look, or generate other suggestions for tracking down the problem.

[11:12] Drongle McMahon: When will we have access tp top scripts on the mailand?

[11:12] Charity Colville: We do that all the time and since it is a dance venue those are usually tops....our fps can bottom out and hold there for many minutes

[11:12] Khamon Fate: You won't Drongle, that invades the privacy of others

'''[11:12] Jack Linden: you could also turn off scripts on the whole region to see if that makes a difference

[11:12] Ciaran Laval: When you pay 0% more tier :p

[11:12] Ciaran Laval: 50% even

[11:13] Drongle McMahon: Well...at least on my own parcels?

[11:13] Khamon Fate: 0% ha ha ha

[11:13] Charity Colville: we have had concierge on it and they said lower the avatar count and active scripts....we do that but still have worse performance than sims running more

'''[11:13] Jack Linden: Drongle, i agree that would be useful but our thinking is that as we move slowly towards script limits we will put better tools into the viewer for everyone

[11:13] Talarus Luan: Yeah, parcel-based estate tools would be a blessing

[11:13] Khamon Fate: You won't Drongle, parcels aren't really physical parcels, you won't ever be able to ground texture a parcel either.

[11:13] Dilbert Dilweg: Welcome to Sweethearts!!!

[11:13] Dilbert Dilweg: I have dealt with the ghost script thing but it seems to me scripts just are not going away when users leave. with users we had 2000 active scripts. then with 20 users we had 5000 active scripts.. the number will increase rapidly as users come in but i think as they leave it takes for ever for their scripts to become inactive. but with only 10 users and that many scripts users have attached to them?

[11:14] Marianne McCann: I know we recently had a sim in Bay City - Falconmoon that was having issues understanding mono scripts. Was a nightmare of serious server lag and regular crashes.

[11:14] Talarus Luan: No, but you CAN sort stuff by X,Y location

[11:14] Drongle McMahon: I don't see why not.

[11:14] Talarus Luan: llOverMyLand filtering

[11:14] xstorm Radek: Jack why can we not start asking people to start converting the LSL scripts over to Mono now ?

[11:14] Khamon Fate: There is no logical reason Drongle; it just isn't TAO.

'''[11:14] Jack Linden: some of the animation overrides have a lot of scripts in them

[11:14] Drongle McMahon: What's a TAO?

[11:14] Ciaran Laval: Mono has its issues, there was Jira entry about Mono problems

[11:14] Talarus Luan: The Tao of Linden. :P

[11:15] xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)

'''[11:15] Jack Linden: yeah Marianne.. they are still working on that one. was a very subtle problem

[11:15] Charity Colville: That many be our problem too....we have most of our scripts running on mono

[11:15] Drongle McMahon: That is a completely irrational answer. Still, maybe that's the point?

'''[11:15] Jack Linden: xstorm.. good question. i'm not sure what the transition plan is there

'''[11:16] Jack Linden: but there is a huge amount of LSL stuff out there, it owuld be tough to enforce anything

[11:16] Drongle McMahon: How can we be expected to guard against over use of resource if we are not given the tools to detect it?

[11:16] Talarus Luan: Doubtful that the LSL VM is going to be going away for a long time.

[11:16] Dilbert Dilweg: Thats my question also Drongle

[11:16] Dennis Lagan: since mono came after LSL, you should think that seen over all the scripts on your SIM as a total, it should be a general improvement.

[11:16] Dilbert Dilweg: too :)

'''[11:17] Jack Linden: if you mean the script limits stuff Drongle, we absolutely will provide script load tools well ahead of any actual enforcement

[11:17] Talarus Luan: Mono is not significantly faster or more sim-lag-free than LSL, overall.

[11:17] Charity Colville: It would be nice if we as estate owners had the ability to "unclog" our sims....like clearing pending downloads that get stuck

[11:17] Drongle McMahon: But I mean Mainland, jack.

[11:17] xstorm Radek: the beta test server is up and running i know some may wish to test it there for LSL to mono convert

[11:18] Talarus Luan: Well, if you see lots of pending downloads, that's usually indicative of asset server load/failure

'''[11:18] Jack Linden: the same applies there. we might not let you see your neighbours information but we can certainly show your own

[11:18] Qie Niangao: that's very good news, Jack!

[11:18] Equinox Pinion: but how will you see then if your neighbour is the problem is the sim is laggy

[11:18] Talarus Luan: Yup. The sooner, the better

[11:19] Talarus Luan: Well, if it isn't you, then you can ask the Mainland Estate Manager (aka LL) for assistance in dealing with it. :)

[11:19] Drongle McMahon: Sounds good

'''[11:19] Jack Linden: it's going to be very interesting because with a mixed ownership region like mainland, if we do bring in script limits as we'd like to, then heavy abusers of resource will not be able to bring the whole region down any more

[11:19] xstorm Radek: Beacons and sim lag readings

[11:19] xstorm Radek: there is a number of programs that can read lag from scripts

'''[11:19] Jack Linden: it would be somewhat like prims and how they are allocated

[11:19] Ciaran Laval: That sounds dangerous

[11:20] Khamon Fate: what a brilliant idea

'''[11:20] Jack Linden: why ciaran?

[11:20] Dytska Vieria: We need additional LSL functions to read performance of a sim...

[11:20] Ciaran Laval: Scripts need to be dynamic

[11:20] Equinox Pinion: jack...do you plan to make a limit on the number of scripts...or running time

[11:20] Ciaran Laval: Some scripts use a lot of resources to fire up then do bugger all for ages

[11:20] Dilbert Dilweg: Problem is Sim owners have no way of telling if a user teleported into the region with 10000 active scripts. Is there a limit to how many scripts a user can run on his/her avatar?

[11:20] Equinox Pinion: as one script can take as much as 100

[11:20] Khamon Fate: running time of course

'''[11:20] Jack Linden: oh they will be, but, if you own half a region isn't it reasonable that you can run more scripts than owning 16m?

[11:20] Drongle McMahon: I dangerous ... could be, depends on whether it's avaraged over time. Many scripts run very seldom and should not be penalised.

'''[11:21] Jack Linden: attachments will probably be handled differently.. this is all still being thrashed out. so nothing is set instone at this point

[11:21] xstorm Radek: you can setup scripts to run only when people need them or around them

'''[11:21] Jack Linden: and we'll talk lots more about it over the next few months

[11:21] Equinox Pinion: but a 16sm owner can still use more running time with one script he has on it :)

[11:21] xstorm Radek: this helps cut down on running scripts

[11:21] Ciaran Laval: But if it's limited xstorm, it won't run at all, then content creators get it in the ear

[11:21] Dytska Vieria: (and speaking of 16's)

[11:21] Khamon Fate: On that point, limiting prims doesn't do much for resource management in the long run as they can be twisted and overly textured to cause massive client side lag anyway

[11:21] Talarus Luan: Well, I would expect that it would be implemented as a load-balancing thing. The more land you own in a sim, the more time your scripts get as a percentage

'''[11:21] Jack Linden: it wouldn't be on number of scripts, that wouldn't help. one script can be far more load than 100

[11:21] Dennis Lagan: i think limiting the amount of scripts is wrong, script time trottle per parcel sounds more logic

[11:21] xstorm Radek: limit it to runing scripts

'''[11:22] Jack Linden: it's more likely to be on script memory or something like that

[11:22] xstorm Radek: scripts do not need to run all the time

'''[11:22] Jack Linden: Talarus.. yes, something along those lines

[11:22] Qie Niangao: need to be careful about the tradeoff between accuracy of the limit and the cost of assessing the scripts.

[11:23] xstorm Radek: some scripts can be link to one main script server in a prim and called on too

[11:23] Khamon Fate: True Qie, especially since it's a tech implementation meant to solve a social problem.

'''[11:23] Jack Linden: we've been collecting a huge amount of script load data since New Years, which we'll be sharing with the community soon.

[11:23] Alexxa Despres: Jack ..for clarification....you are speaking of MAINLAND only regarding script limits.....or ALL land?

[11:23] Khamon Fate: It'd be silly to overload the system with controls.

[11:24] Dennis Lagan: as far as i understand from some rumours, the homestead and openspace script limits were just a teaser, its sounds like script limits will follow for all products

[11:24] xstorm Radek: the better people can learn to use scripts the better the sim will run

'''[11:24] Jack Linden: Alexxa, it would more than likely be an all regions as mainland and estates still share hardware. But the limits will be there to curb the very highest end load not to dramatically affect the majority of users

[11:24] Ciaran Laval: They did say script limits will be for all land in a previous blog

[11:25] Alexxa Despres: TY , jack ;)

'''[11:25] Jack Linden: that's why we're measuring script load, to get the right information to make those kinds of decisions

[11:25] Khamon Fate: Speaking of Homesteads Jack, have y'all further discussed running them 2:1 or is that a dead horse?

[11:25] Equinox Pinion: you mean 3:1 as 2:1 would cost them money

'''[11:25] Jack Linden: Dennis.. not decided yet but it's likely we'd start with Openspaces, thenHomesteads and then Full Regions. Not all atonce

[11:26] Dennis Lagan: kk

[11:26] Drongle McMahon: Speaking of scripts, who is that fish?

[11:26] Dytska Vieria: Currently, I think llGetRegionTimeDilation() is the only function that gets any info on sim load, need others such as llGetScriptTime

[11:26] Khamon Fate: "curb the very highest end load" That's a sensible approach as there's probably a very wide gap between the few abusers and the bulk of the populations

'''[11:26] Jack Linden: that horse is very much alive khamon, and yes we are looking at changing the cpu ratio for Homesteads. we're assessing the cost etc at the moment

[11:26] Khamon Fate: Thank You

[11:27] Driftwood Miles: cough

[11:27] xstorm Radek: yes the horse gets food and water

[11:27] xstorm Radek: ;-)

[11:27] Alexxa Despres: LOL

[11:27] Qie Niangao: so, on the subject of "old business"... any update on the Traffic-abuse thing?

[11:27] Khamon Fate: horses, now there's some major lag

'''[11:28] Jack Linden: Qie.. we're going to start that thread soon but we've held off a little because we'd like to include some data on bots

'''[11:28] Jack Linden: But soon

[11:28] Qie Niangao: thanks Jack.

[11:28] Talarus Luan: Back on the subject of landcutting.. it has been a few weeks now since the policy was announced. What is our "next step"? Do we now start volume ARing the ones who are basically flipping their noses at the policy?

[11:28] Charity Colville: I am not sure what the purpose was of eliminating popular places without removing traffic....bots are still alive and well

[11:28] xstorm Radek: im glad the Bot data will be added

[11:28] Drongle McMahon: Are you collecting the data on bots with bots? Can they be trusted?

[11:28] Talarus Luan: We've been notecarding quite a few instances of abuse.

'''[11:29] Jack Linden: No need at this point Talarus, we can see who is cutting and we're talking to the big micro-parcel owners about managing their count down and addressing some of the huge prices etc.

[11:29] Ciaran Laval: Have you got any data that much ahs changed Jack?

[11:30] Drongle McMahon: It is frustrating for those of us who are actively working to rejoin microplots to see that cutting continues. It is also frustrating to see so many unjoined Govenor Linden microplots, often with banlines and/or prim litter.

[11:30] Qie Niangao is eager for a certain Austin H to start "managing down"

[11:30] Equinox Pinion: how many 16sm parcel were there before and how many are there now

[11:30] Talarus Luan: OK, so how long should we wait to have specific groups of plots addressed?

[11:30] Dilbert Dilweg: Glad to hear you all still moving foreward on the bots and traffic isses Jack thanks for answering that

[11:30] xstorm Radek: i have started to see Bots that can make other bots i think i only seen one so far like this

[11:30] Melodie Darwin: Arbor has given away about 10,000m of land to neighbors, but there is alot mixed into abandoned land also

'''[11:30] Jack Linden: There's been a small drop in the number of 16m parcels for sale, and a fairly big drop (about 10%) in the total L$ cost of the parcels set for sale

[11:31] Drongle McMahon: I hope you are watching 32s as well?

[11:31] xstorm Radek: thats good

'''[11:31] Jack Linden: Yes we watch all the different parcel sizes.

[11:31] Talarus Luan: Aye, that's 10,000sqm over 400 plots given away to adjacent landowners. Quite a bit in the last few weeks. :)

[11:31] Ciaran Laval: The Capitalist Pigs have dropped their prices but I haven't noticed much change with the others

[11:31] Dilbert Dilweg: lol

[11:31] Drongle McMahon: Dropped their land level too!

[11:31] xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)

'''[11:32] Jack Linden: I think it's one of those situations where it'll be quiet for a while and then change quite rapidly as people realise that this busines model justisn't going to work anymore

[11:32] xstorm Radek: well i did remember some people did like high land

[11:33] Talarus Luan: Well, don't hold your breath on that one. As long as the land is cut up, placed where it is, and for sale at extortion prices, they will be quite happy to continue scamming.

'''[11:33] Jack Linden: I expect i've mentioned this before.. but the ability to toggle Ban Line visibility is coming into the Viewer soon

[11:33] xstorm Radek: at one time the land people did use building up the land around people to get people to move out of a sim then take over the land at a low price

'''[11:33] Jack Linden: Which is one of those small changes that a lot of people asked for

[11:33] Ciaran Laval: Oh really? Never heard that before Jack

[11:34] Equinox Pinion: when when jack??

[11:34] Qie Niangao: For focusing attention, a failing business model is one thing, the barrel of a Smith and Wesson quite another

'''[11:34] Jack Linden: I'm hoping for 1.23. but certainly soon

[11:34] Ciaran Laval: Cool, now a toggle to allow estate owners to see banlines would be handy too

[11:34] Alexxa Despres: Agrred Ciaran!

[11:34] Equinox Pinion: that is really good news!

[11:34] Alexxa Despres: agreed*

[11:34] Charlene Trudeau: yeah, then I could dump my spare alt I have to use to fly the estates

'''[11:35] Jack Linden: are there other small changes that you guys can think of that would make a big difference?

[11:35] Ciaran Laval: I don't know they are there unless I pop in with an alt or someone complains!

[11:35] xstorm Radek: it will help matters if every one had that option in view to see banlines on a map

[11:35] Dennis Lagan: oh, good to hear about banlines... isn't their a possibility in making the messages different? for example a blue pop up menu, orbs have that as well.. not that i'm a fan of orbs. the visibility on bans from a distance is rather short anyway, so you hardly have time to stop when flying.

[11:35] MappaLandScout whispers: gathering parcel info at Linden Estate Services<148.18666, 110.01878, 38.47495>...

[11:36] Dennis Lagan: agrees with xstorm

[11:36] MappaLandScout whispers: searching database...

[11:36] Ciaran Laval: Maybe Dennis with the toggle they can go back to making banlines more visible again? Didn't they tone them down a bit?

[11:36] Marianne McCann: Dennis - that is often my trouble when flying as well. Those and full parcels.

[11:36] Dennis Lagan: xstorm has a better solution

[11:36] Drongle McMahon: Show banlines(and orbs?) on the minimap.

[11:37] MappaLandScout whispers: search results:

[11:37] MappaLandScout whispers:

[11:37] xstorm Radek: it will help a lot if they did

[11:37] xstorm Radek: may be a menu for the mini map

[11:37] Dennis Lagan: yes

[11:37] Talarus Luan: Just make parcels you don't have physical access to red on the minimap

[11:37] xstorm Radek: yes

[11:37] Marianne McCann: That wouls save serious hassle, Talarus

[11:38] Drongle McMahon: Flying could be fun again.

'''[11:38] Jack Linden: as a resident i've often thought it would be cool if i could set the texture for how i see banlines. then i could choose to use Trees or something

[11:38] Talarus Luan: Especially for flying in vehicles

[11:38] Ciaran Laval: You can edit the client Jack, or you could

[11:38] Dilbert Dilweg: That would be cool

'''[11:38] Jack Linden: true, i guess a custom client could maybe do that

[11:39] Dennis Lagan: i think thats inferior to xstorms solution jack.

[11:39] Khamon Fate: You can edit the xml file that contains the banlines texture can't you

[11:39] Ciaran Laval: Someone posted on the forums months ago what line you need to edit

[11:39] Talarus Luan: Don't need a custom client, just replace the texture in the client.

[11:39] Talarus Luan: Argent posted it somewhere

[11:39] xstorm Radek: what if they add the tools for the custom to Advanced so new people will not cry about new buttons

[11:39] Cytherea Eagle: replace it with a transparent one in the client

[11:39] Jack Linden nods

[11:40] Alexxa Despres: Transparency is the 'new' black :-P

[11:40] Charlene Trudeau: lol

'''[11:40] Jack Linden: hehe

[11:40] xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)

[11:40] Equinox Pinion: lol

[11:41] Talarus Luan: Anyway. So basically we continue to wait for people like Mr. "Four Corners" to "get it" and cease being a parasite?

[11:41] Marianne McCann: Talarus - adding the ability to see restricted parcels (ban and buy pass maybe?) on the mini map would actually make the mini map useful again, IMO

'''[11:41] Jack Linden: so what else would be a tiny change that would make a big difference to you?

[11:41] Ciaran Laval: Also a toggle for estate owners on direct teleports would be handy, I spent ages wondering why it wasn't working before someone told me it doesn't work for estate owners

[11:42] Ciaran Laval: I mean setting a parcel landing point doesn't work

[11:42] Cytherea Eagle: I say that LL should stop p@#!y fotting around and pass some regulations to get rid of these nasty cuts and extortion

[11:42] Cytherea Eagle: footing*

'''[11:42] Jack Linden: ah yes Ciaran. that was 'as designed' but i know it's not always what people want

[11:42] Marianne McCann: I doubt it's a small change, but consistant land textures would be nice. Tired of my brach vanishing on every other login

[11:43] Ciaran Laval: It's handy Jack but I thought the sim was borked!

[11:43] Stephan Mrigesh: Cythera, you are not helping things much by owning these plot's yourself

[11:43] Marianne McCann: beach*

[11:43] Cytherea Eagle: Steph... I work with Arbor now hon

[11:43] Drongle McMahon: A tiny tier restructuring. Make microplots less economic and easier for people to absorb.

[11:43] Talarus Luan: Cytherea has actually been resolving hers recently. :)

[11:43] xstorm Radek: i like to see a way to have a mini map that you can use for buildings above 1000 so you can track down people building that high for estate owners

[11:43] Qie Niangao: That's a good idea, Drongle.

[11:43] Dytska Vieria: Better terrain textures on the old continents would be nice, Jack.

'''[11:44] Jack Linden: xstorm.. do you mean letting the minimap be constrained to certain height ranges?

[11:44] Seany1235 Blinker: good idea x storm

[11:44] Stephan Mrigesh: So, because you work with the Arbor it is ok to continue the desire for micro plot's?

'''[11:44] Jack Linden: Dytska, I tried to do that before and a lot of people were unhappy

[11:44] Equinox Pinion: a tiny change that would make our life easier would be not to increase the homesteads in july jack...and you even dont have to change the client for it :)

[11:44] xstorm Radek: oh i like them old faded colors of land on the mainland ;-)

[11:45] Ciaran Laval: lol Equinox

[11:45] Talarus Luan: Stephan, she's been selling/donating her plots as fast as she can.

[11:45] Dilbert Dilweg: lol'

[11:45] Dytska Vieria: Just the 20m level - the orange and blue 'coral' is a little bit foo!

'''[11:45] Jack Linden: I had asked about making the old mainland more green and so on. It was a very strong reaction that people wanted to keep the old ones

[11:45] Cytherea Eagle: Steph obviously you do not get it so IM me after the meeting and I can relieve your mind

[11:45] xstorm Radek: yep :-)

[11:45] xstorm Radek: i like the land color from 2003

[11:46] Charity Colville: Frankly I am just happy my shoes and hair don't end up in my butt when I teleport anymore so GOOD JOB GUYS

[11:46] Talarus Luan: If you have a specific issue with a specific plot of hers, IM her about it, and, likely, you'll be satisfied. :)

'''[11:46] Jack Linden: is there a kind of land we're missing do you think? should we have Mainland desert areas?

[11:46] Dytska Vieria wants deserts

[11:46] Equinox Pinion: Jungle

[11:46] Drongle McMahon: caves.

'''[11:46] Jack Linden: haha Charity, i agree. that was such an annoying bug

[11:46] Charity Colville: oh it sucked

[11:47] Charity Colville: and itched

[11:47] Charlene Trudeau: lol

[11:47] xstorm Radek: are ther still not some caves left on mainland ?

'''[11:47] Jack Linden: always a smooth look TPing into a meeting with hair in very much the wrong place

[11:47] Dilbert Dilweg: lol'

[11:47] Driftwood Miles: I heard you Ciaran ;) and agreed!!

[11:47] Dytska Vieria: Mountainous deserts would be nice

[11:47] Marianne McCann: Ya, jungles, high desert (mesas, etc.)

'''[11:47] Jack Linden: caves xstorm?

'''[11:48] Jack Linden: ooh Mesas would be neat. Have to do them with prims though

[11:48] Drongle McMahon: Good mountais always seem to get ruined.

[11:48] xstorm Radek: there was a number of sim owners that had caves on there sim at one time

[11:48] Ciaran Laval: lol

[11:48] Marianne McCann: True, Drongle. Same issue with forests and jungles

[11:48] Dytska Vieria: horizontal terrain editing...

[11:48] xstorm Radek: oh

[11:48] Drongle McMahon: Complet underworld, with a river Styx to cross to get in.

[11:49] Marianne McCann: Sky cities

[11:49] Driftwood Miles: when using the select land tool in Land Tools jack it would be great if there was some way of seeing square meterage as you drag.

[11:49] Ciaran Laval: Underground could work

[11:49] xstorm Radek: i do not think you can do that under the edit of land as of yet

[11:49] Charlene Trudeau: definitely Driftwood

'''[11:49] Jack Linden: a sky city is a cool idea. maybe the next dpw city should be raised up with forest underneath

[11:49] Dennis Lagan: is there any chance of having a brush wide slider for the terraforming, like the new force slider? (btw, this slider is not that usefull, a number from 1 to 10 would be more easy to remember what setting you used)

[11:49] Drongle McMahon: ...and a bridge keeper whos ask you your favourite colour.

[11:49] Dilbert Dilweg: would be cool to be able to bore a hole in the side of a mountain

[11:49] Ciaran Laval: Put one in Space

'''[11:49] Jack Linden: ooh Driftwood, that's an excellent idea

[11:49] Equinox Pinion: good point driftwood!

[11:49] Equinox Pinion: that would be really handy

[11:50] Drongle McMahon: The moon.

[11:50] Jack Linden writes on his pad

[11:50] Marianne McCann: Jack - or worked into the environment somehow. Sort oof a "green" environment

[11:50] Driftwood Miles: not that I am a landd cutter or anything :P

[11:50] Dilbert Dilweg: lol'

[11:50] Equinox Pinion: lol

[11:50] xstorm Radek: jack as long as the sky sity is not on another persons sim with out them knowing about it *GIGGLES* :)

[11:50] Marianne McCann giggles

'''[11:50] Jack Linden: haha xstorm.. yes, lets hide a sky city above ahern.

'''[11:50] Jack Linden: :)

[11:51] Qie Niangao: actually, about that area readout in terrain editing: the current editor gives you that, but only when you release--and there's no way to add to or remove from the selected area... I'd *really* like that ability.

[11:51] xstorm Radek: that will keep me in a job for the rest of my life in SL

[11:51] Charity Colville: There is another feature to discover...3D parceling to make use of your sky areas

[11:51] Charlene Trudeau: shift-click or something to add subtract area would be fabulous

'''[11:51] Jack Linden: yes Qie, that's the issue. and being able to edit the bounding selection *before* cut or join would be very useful

[11:51] Talarus Luan: Space, the Final Frontier.

[11:51] xstorm Radek: yes 3D mini maps

[11:52] Charlene Trudeau: especially when trying to join up those microparcels along Linden roads <G>

[11:52] Qie Niangao: exactly, Jack.

[11:52] xstorm Radek: not yet put in to the settings as of yet

'''[11:52] Jack Linden: interesting. i wonder how hard that would be.

[11:52] Qie Niangao: well, right now, the selected area by dragging is always a rectangle... that's probably a handy simplification.

[11:52] Drongle McMahon: How about some plate tectonice, complete with earthquakes and great trenches and black smokers.

[11:53] Drongle McMahon: *tectonics

'''[11:53] Jack Linden: i think that because we use selection for Joins too, it was way easier to only have square selection

[11:53] Khamon Fate: It would be really nice on occasion if we could ctrl-select parcels

[11:53] Alexxa Despres: they have that already Drongle....you haven't gotten that upgrade? :-P

[11:53] xstorm Radek: hey do not let people link to the protected linden land it will cut down on all my TOS AR's in a day

[11:53] Stephan Mrigesh: I would really like to see some surprise wether storms Jack, (thought that would be cool;)

[11:53] Ciaran Laval: Head office exists in a quake zone, let them keep it there

[11:53] Drongle McMahon: :-)

[11:53] Alexxa Despres: LOL Ciaran

'''[11:54] Jack Linden: could be risky khamon.. with Sell and Abandon etc if you could have parcels selected that you weren't aware of.

[11:54] Khamon Fate: it is true

[11:54] Khamon Fate: SRSLY though has there been any talk in the lab of implementing 3D terrain?

[11:54] Driftwood Miles: It would also be awesome if on Buying a sim from someone (full transfer ) you could choose to have the tp registration wiped. Stop people tping to a club or whatever that is no longer there

'''[11:55] Jack Linden: Khamon, do you mean with concave ability?

[11:55] Driftwood Miles: and bugging the residents

[11:55] Equinox Pinion: drift...just ask for a server key change

[11:55] Khamon Fate: yeyahs

[11:55] Driftwood Miles: really

[11:55] Driftwood Miles: cool Equinox

[11:55] Equinox Pinion: yes

[11:55] Talarus Luan: Yep, a full sim clear will stop it.

'''[11:55] Jack Linden: probably a huge change but i agree it would be neat to have caves

[11:55] Equinox Pinion: we learned it the hard way too :)

[11:56] Khamon Fate: it would only be a huge change in the sense of substituting the 2D terrain code with 3D terrain code

[11:56] Marianne McCann: Would lead to some interesting inverted hillocks and stuch too, I think

[11:56] xstorm Radek: gee there we go take away all the cave builders jobs ;-)

[11:56] Dilbert Dilweg: Yes it would be Jack

[11:56] Khamon Fate: the current 2D settings will import easily enough and existing content will still work with physics and all

[11:56] Driftwood Miles: LOL yes when you have people landing on someones brand new tropical hideaway and suddenly the sky falls in with loads of people looking for the Catfish Fetish club...it wears a bit thin...so thanks for that :)

[11:56] Charlene Trudeau: lol

[11:57] Equinox Pinion: LOL!!

[11:57] Marianne McCann laughs

[11:57] Dilbert Dilweg: lol''

[11:57] Marianne McCann: Jack, before you go (and as an aside) If you happen to hear from Magellan Linden in the next couple, do let him know that Nova Albion is having their fifth anniversary parade on the 21st at 10:00 am SLT, an I'm sure they'd love to see their native son there.

'''[11:57] Jack Linden: hehe

[11:57] xstorm Radek: *GIGGLES* :)

[11:57] Khamon Fate: oh yes pics

'''[11:57] Jack Linden: ooh, thanks Marianne!

[11:57] Marianne McCann: You're welcome! :-)

'''[11:57] Jack Linden: i'll strap that message to a pidgeon and maybe he'll get it

[11:57] Equinox Pinion: we bought a CSI sim....was alot of work to tell the people they cannot look for a murder bunny anymore lol

[11:57] Marianne McCann: coolness

'''[11:58] Jack Linden: ha Equinox

[11:58] Dilbert Dilweg: lol'

[11:58] Charity Colville: LOL

'''[11:58] Jack Linden: but free traffic!

[11:58] Driftwood Miles: omg Equinox thats scary!!

[11:58] Alexxa Despres: lol

[11:58] Driftwood Miles: very true Jack lol

'''[11:58] Jack Linden: did you sell them murder bunnies?

[11:58] xstorm Radek: are people still looking for him and if so why ? if i was him i be hiding

[11:58] Equinox Pinion: damm...should have done it lol

[11:58] Marianne McCann: When life gives you murder, make murder bunnies

'''[11:58] Jack Linden: seems like a business opportunity to me

[11:59] Dennis Lagan: the guy from support didn't understand one wanted to drop this nice traffic benefit.

'''[11:59] Jack Linden: :)

'''[11:59] Jack Linden: okays, I'd best zip to my next meeting. great chat folks, thanks as always!

[[Category:Jack Linden Office Hours]]

User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2009-02-26

2009-04-30T20:31:34Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2009-02-26 moved to User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-02-26

#REDIRECT [[User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-02-26]]

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-02-26

2009-04-30T20:31:34Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2009-02-26 moved to User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-02-26

'''[11:03] Jack Linden: hello everyone!

[11:03] Jean Swashbuckler: Hi Jack

[11:03] Equinox Pinion: hi jack

[11:03] Dytska Vieria: Hi Jack!

[11:03] Dirk Talamasca: Hello saucy Jack

[11:03] xstorm Radek: ? what happen to Talarus to day ?

[11:03] xstorm Radek: hi Jack

[11:03] CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: hiya, Jack

[11:03] Rails Bailey: pretends to be a polar bear rug

[11:03] Timo Daehlie: he couldnt make it xstorm ;)

[11:03] Asterion Coen: hello jack

[11:04] Dirk Talamasca: Hi there X!

[11:04] Qie Niangao frets about dragon-asymmetry

'''[11:04] Jack Linden: good lord no talarus?

[11:04] Timo Daehlie: lol jack ;)

[11:04] Kyrion Yalin: Greetings all

[11:04] Asterion Coen: oh, a london architect :)

[11:04] Timo Daehlie: [2009/02/25 15:21] Talarus Luan: I may not be at the JLOH tomorrow. I might be there idle to get the log, though

[11:05] Willow Halfpint: Hi Jack :-) long time no see

'''[11:05] Jack Linden: Willow! hi!

'''[11:05] Jack Linden: so, have you all been reading the new blog?

'''[11:05] Jack Linden: thoughts?

[11:05] Sierus Sicling: its, different..

[11:05] Dytska Vieria: You're blog?

[11:05] Equinox Pinion: yep..but need to get used to it :)

[11:05] xstorm Radek: yes :-) parts of it

[11:05] Marianne McCann: Ya... I'm on Safari, so I can't see it

[11:05] Dirk Talamasca: They need to fix the preferences so that all the responses stop landing in my mailbox!

[11:05] xstorm Radek: got lost

[11:05] Drongle McMahon: None. Too soporific.

'''[11:06] Jack Linden: the new Linden blog Dytska

[11:06] Equinox Pinion: after that i will pester you with messages jack *g*

[11:06] Marianne McCann: Also, where in the heck is Magellan Linden's blog space?

[11:06] Qie Niangao: oh, is it up again? it's still throwing page load errors for me.

[11:06] Asterion Coen: the one teaching how cook eggs ? yes very usefull. my breakfast r much better now :)

[11:06] Marianne McCann: DIrk - yes! The prefs need to be opt out for that

'''[11:06] Jack Linden: AhMagellan, indeed. He's always out exploring, never writes

[11:06] Dirk Talamasca: They are but they don't work

[11:07] Fontte Newbold: Re: I haven't seen Talarus yesterday or today, but he mentioned having a major dental visit planned. I'm guessing that's it.

[11:07] Marianne McCann: But ya, every time i go to the blog, I get a "connection dropped" error

[11:07] Drongle McMahon: There's no content. Just lots' of hellos.

'''[11:07] Jack Linden: I think we've a pile of little tweaks and fixes still to work on

[11:07] Fontte Newbold: I figure he'll tell you all himself when he gets back. :p

[11:07] Marianne McCann: I like the idea of the blog an all

'''[11:07] Jack Linden: most of the different blogs in there will be posted to at least weekly so it'll soon fill up with stuff

[11:08] Drongle McMahon: Nohing about progress with land cutting!

[11:08] Qie Niangao: (oh, Mari, it works for me now, I just had to restart Firefox from scratch. hmmm.)

[11:08] xstorm Radek: can there be a inworld Blog too please ?

[11:08] Fontte Newbold: As far as I can tell, the main RSS tracks all the blogs, or will that stop being the case?

[11:08] Carl Metropolitan: I have a question--what is Ursula--and more importantly--why is it off in the middle of nowhere?

[11:08] Marianne McCann: XStorm - I'd love to see those old info signs 'round the grid 9at infohubs an stuff) get used

'''[11:08] Jack Linden: not sure if it's all of them Fontte or just he featured ones

[11:08] Marianne McCann: Ooh, the "U" word

[11:08] xstorm Radek: yes me too

'''[11:08] Jack Linden: xstorm, there is a DPW one under the Land area

'''[11:09] Jack Linden: and the Land one itself will no doubt have Mainland topics

[11:09] xstorm Radek: oh good ty :-)

[11:09] Willow Halfpint: my friend loves your Toki Doki Top Jack, she is here in RL

'''[11:09] Jack Linden: hey Carl.. it's a new block of land we're prepping

[11:10] Carl Metropolitan: Will it stay where it is now?

[11:10] Carl Metropolitan: Or move towards the rest of the mainland?

[11:10] Qie Niangao: (Rails, mic is open)

[11:10] Marianne McCann: (An a colorful mic it is!)

'''[11:10] Jack Linden: not sure Carl, it's just a work in progress. we've several such blocks that are up or down depending on what we're doing

[11:11] Carl Metropolitan: Okay

[11:11] Carl Metropolitan: I'm worried about my maps :)

'''[11:11] Jack Linden: someone has an open mic by the way

[11:11] Asterion Coen: Carl, dont be, i got a lot of bulldozers

'''[11:11] Jack Linden: ah, closed now.

[11:11] Rails Bailey: sorry jack was in a conferance call, slaps self

'''[11:12] Jack Linden: no worries Rails

'''[11:12] Jack Linden: it's amazing the stuff i hear during office hours on voice

'''[11:12] Jack Linden: :)

'''[11:12] Jack Linden: so who has a topic for us today?

[11:12] Asterion Coen: (that's why i dont have any mic)

[11:12] Carl Metropolitan: I have another question. Can we get the Linden "magic prims" that produce the blue "i" signs on the map put back at the Mahulu and the Periwinkle InfoHubs?

[11:13] Marianne McCann: Glad you got the infohub stuff, Jack, Hope that helps.

[11:13] xstorm Radek: we need protected land settings to stop people from building on them

[11:13] Marianne McCann: Carl - I have a JIRA on that now. One sec

[11:13] Drongle McMahon: How are your conversations with microplot owners going, Jack?

'''[11:13] Jack Linden: noted Carl. thanks

[11:13] Marianne McCann: I found another couple, possibly, Carl

[11:14] Carl Metropolitan: Which ones?

[11:14] Marianne McCann: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-2391

'''[11:14] Jack Linden: Drongle, i've just pinged the team to get the latest, if they respond in the next 45 mins i'll pass on the latest hehe

[11:14] Marianne McCann: Luna, Mahulu, Murray, Periwinkle, Plum, and Violet.

[11:14] Drongle McMahon: Is the Govenor going to clean up her microplots and rejoin them?

[11:14] xstorm Radek: Can we have setting put in to place to stop people from building on protected LL Land on all the the Mainland ?

[11:14] Marianne McCann: Murray appears to be decommissioned, and Luna is not an infohub, but does send people to it as an infohub

[11:15] Carl Metropolitan: True

[11:15] Cytherea Eagle: Speaking of microplots.... Myself and other members of Arbor have some concerns about RezAds and they way they are handling business.

[11:15] Carl Metropolitan: And the teen grid transfer station might be able to use one, too.

'''[11:15] Jack Linden: Drongle, we're going to talk to the micro barons about that yes

[11:15] Marianne McCann: Good point, Carl. I wasn't sure how that one worked specifically

'''[11:15] Jack Linden: Also, we're starting to audit the Gov Linden land, especially the 16m parcels that she owns. we need to get that land back into circulation

[11:16] Drongle McMahon: Good.

'''[11:16] Jack Linden: and xstorm, part of that audit will be to set the permissions correctly. a lot of parcels have the wrong settings

[11:17] Qie Niangao: For expediency, would relaxing the "3 sides" rule help merge 16s (or, really, anything sub-512) with neighbors? Or is that asking for conflict?

'''[11:17] Jack Linden: Cytherea, thanks for the notecard, we'll look into that

[11:17] Drongle McMahon: Jack. Further to Cytherea's question, concerning advertising networks. Do three ad hoardings, owned by one person, none nearer than 50m apart, count as a single location if they are on the same large plot?

[11:18] Cytherea Eagle: I see that all over the grid Drongle

'''[11:18] Jack Linden: Qie.. we've talked about that. or of offering a quicker way to claim a 16m parcel that is next to you

[11:18] Cytherea Eagle: it is a loophole via affiliates Rez Ads uses

'''[11:18] Jack Linden: Drongle, we'd have to look at it but 3 ads sounds like, wel, 3 ads to me

[11:19] Elanthius Flagstaff: The ticketing system is pretty fast but not many people know about it. Why not change the description to let people know they can claim land that way

[11:19] CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: I noticed more than one such system yesterday as I was looking for a different type of rental ad boards

'''[11:19] Jack Linden: If someone is using that to get around the poliicy then we will deal with that

[11:19] CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: the conflict with those systems is what if I want to rez them inside my place of biz or on my estate region

[11:19] Cytherea Eagle: The NC I dropped to you Jack...is just one small example of many across the grid

[11:20] CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: so it becomes a case of what is the real intent

'''[11:20] Jack Linden: Elanthius, true. There was a KB article but we could do more to push that. Now we have a new blog..

[11:20] Dirk Talamasca: Jack, now that the blog is in action, can we expect to see an announcement regarding the culling of traffic and camping bots soon?

[11:20] Elanthius Flagstaff: The KB is an unknown known, you can't look for something you idn't know would be there

[11:20] Twilight Difference: hey jack my profil button away

'''[11:20] Jack Linden: Dirk, yes.. the next post to the Land blog will likely be to start a discussion on Bots. Traffic. Camping.

[11:21] Yann Dufaux: yeah i have see the new blogs, i take more time for search the loink on this but its have a great look :)

[11:21] Dirk Talamasca: Fantastic, Jack..

'''[11:21] Jack Linden: We especially want to look at the people who are selling traffic via piles of bots. That is clearly not cool.

[11:21] Willow Halfpint: yayayay,,

[11:21] Elanthius Flagstaff: Jack you mentioned traffic injectors before but I think it's a tiny tiny almost irrelevant part ofd the problem

[11:22] Elanthius Flagstaff: Any noob can run 50 bots on their computer for free, only idiots pay for it

'''[11:22] Jack Linden: Actualyl Elanthius it's becoming rapidly more of an issue.

[11:22] Fontte Newbold: Human.... bot trafficking. :)

[11:22] Sierus Sicling: cant you g down the wow route and make bots illegal, or would that be a step to far ?

'''[11:22] Jack Linden: And with people investing large sums to move up the rankings, well it's something we need to look at

[11:22] Willow Halfpint: some bots can be usefull

[11:22] Elanthius Flagstaff: I think if your blog focusses on that to the exclusion of anything else it will be a real waste

[11:22] Willow Halfpint: not all bots are used for traphic

[11:22] Fontte Newbold: Bots still have legitimate service roles that aren't easily served otherwise in SL.

[11:23] Dennis Lagan: you mean how you can make them pay you that money instead of a bot baron lol

[11:23] Marianne McCann: Ya. It's not the tool, its how its used

[11:23] Carl Metropolitan: That's right. NCI has a legit invite bot. And we will be happy to pay for a premium account for it if need be.

'''[11:23] Jack Linden: Sierus, we think that there are legitimate reasons for bots. So we're not at the point where we'd consider removing them all

[11:23] Fontte Newbold: Although it's less of a problem these days now that tier payments aren't tied directly to traffic offset, it's still a problem.

[11:23] Marianne McCann: I really don't like bots, but some do have their usess.

[11:23] Sierus Sicling: sure thing :)

[11:23] Carl Metropolitan: I think bots should be required to have premium accounts.

[11:23] CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: yes, there are many good bots. Lindens use several themselves <G>

[11:23] Qie Niangao: I think anything short of removing Traffic as a search ranking tool altogether will be at best a stop-gap

[11:23] Fontte Newbold: The distinction falls in where bots "count" as actual avatars.

[11:23] CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: agreed, Qie

'''[11:23] Jack Linden: There are bot bartenders for heavens sake, I mean who'd want to remove them?

[11:23] Fontte Newbold: In the cases of sim blocking and traffic.

'''[11:23] Jack Linden: :)

[11:23] Carl Metropolitan: Traffic is extremely valuable once you get past the first ten entries or so.

[11:24] Carl Metropolitan: Removing it would be a mistake

[11:24] Fontte Newbold: Land bots are irritating for mainland sellers.... but unfortunately, that's given.

[11:24] Dennis Lagan: I think a person can normally own only 1 free account, if i'm correct? ofcourse nearly anyone violates this rule

'''[11:24] Jack Linden: Qie.. I can't compute that but i am not a bot. :)

[11:24] Equinox Pinion: but it should be real traffic carl

[11:24] xstorm Radek: there are to many people using free account BOT's using up to much upload time on the server and not paying LL for it

[11:24] CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: they've removed that stipulation, Dennis

[11:24] Carl Metropolitan: No--that's not the case anymore, Dennis

[11:24] Equinox Pinion: why did you remove that jack

[11:24] CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: and, frankly, anyone willing to host an army of bots would pay the ten bucks a head anyway

[11:24] Dennis Lagan: i see. and why not jack?

[11:25] Fontte Newbold: I don't think rent-seeking will fix this problem.

[11:25] Willow Halfpint: we carnt go at bots, with pitch forks ,,and fire, inless, there anoying spam bots, or Traphic lovers

[11:25] Willow Halfpint: :-p

[11:25] CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: roleplayers often have several avatars for different purposes

'''[11:25] Jack Linden: Yes, we've had people with 40 bots sat in a skybox making the region inaccessible to the landowners there.

[11:25] CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: I have a bunch of alts (this is one of them) for various biz purposes

[11:25] Fontte Newbold: My opinion would be to ignore "traffic" and go with a PageRank system.

[11:25] Sierus Sicling: prehaps there should be guidleine on the use of bots then ?

[11:25] Dirk Talamasca: They attempt to cap you but you use a mac spoofer and you are in like Flynn.

[11:25] xstorm Radek: needs to be a program that makes a person that sets up a free account for bots to pay $1 for every free account and have a limmit to every main account

[11:25] Yann Dufaux: well, why you don't add a captcha code on the new viewer?

'''[11:25] Jack Linden: And bots are getting stuck at infohubs too which is spooky for new residents

[11:25] Jean Swashbuckler: Jean nods on the 40 bots in a skybox

[11:26] Qie Niangao: (Well, Jack, it's a debate: does Traffic provide any useful information to Search ranking, even if not gamed? Carl says yes, I say no. I expect we'll expound on those positions, come blog-post time.)

[11:26] Fontte Newbold: What Qie said ^

[11:26] Willow Halfpint: hahaha yes jack,, alot of the welcome bots come to hyles

[11:26] CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: model bots are useful too, even if they do contribute to traffic

[11:26] Elanthius Flagstaff: So what is going to be the focus of your attempt to solve the problem. In your eyes what even /is/ the problem?

[11:26] Carl Metropolitan: Charge bot users for the resouces they consume. Make them have premium accounts for their bots.

[11:26] CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: lets face it you can make a great outfit look horrid and a horrid outit look great, depending on your skill with cam and photoshop

'''[11:27] Jack Linden: Yann, captcha is an option

[11:27] CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: captcha for login?

'''[11:27] Jack Linden: hehe yes Qie, i'm looking forward to reading all the views

[11:27] Drongle McMahon: Crucially, can LL dentify bots reliably?

[11:27] Fontte Newbold: Unfortunately, Captchas have proven defeatable.

[11:27] Willow Halfpint: forcing people to pay will make it more tempting, or decress popularty even more

'''[11:28] Jack Linden: Elanthius, from my perspetive it's about how they impact other residents first of all, and our systems second.

[11:28] Drongle McMahon: Capcha not much good ... doesn't take long to answer 40 capchas.

[11:28] Qie Niangao: ooo... crowdsourced captcha-decoding for L$s--something for newbies to do, in the absence of camping. :p

[11:28] Fontte Newbold: Adding a paywall would have roughly the inverse effect that making SL free did.

'''[11:28] Jack Linden: When you can't reach the land you own because the region is full of camping bots. That's clearly not fair

[11:28] Willow Halfpint: if you ban something it only makes it more want able, note : griefers

[11:28] Yann Dufaux: Charlene, yes because this option can eleminate one couple of bots , with a special security and crypted response

[11:28] Fontte Newbold: Ie, traffic statistics plummet, but free riders go away.

[11:28] Marianne McCann would find a login captcha to be kinda annoying

[11:28] Ciaran Laval: You already have a policy for that Jack

[11:28] Elanthius Flagstaff: Yeah I already plan to send CAPTCHAS out to some group channel and have people solve them in exchange for a couple L$ if it ever comes to that

[11:28] Ewan Mureaux: please don't make it harder to use LL products

[11:28] CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: Yeah, but it would make the response time for my estate bot longer when a kick/ban is needed

[11:29] Carl Metropolitan: No--you ONLY require premium accounts for bots; not for everyone!

[11:29] Qie Niangao: there must be a Mechanical Turk app for that already, Elan. :)

[11:29] Dennis Lagan: why don't you just make it a violation of the TOS, and battle it the same way you do as 16 sq. m. land owners? every child can see if bots are used or not at a certain place.

'''[11:29] Jack Linden: Ciaran, to some extent. We have acted in extreme cases

[11:29] CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: right now the login is nice and automated and all I have to do is a couple of clicks on my end to tell it waht is needed

[11:29] Willow Halfpint: i do feel there sould be a login limmet,,

[11:29] Fontte Newbold: Good lick with that distinction, Carl. :D

[11:29] Fontte Newbold: Good luck too

[11:29] CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: no clue how the programmer will program in what I'd need to handle that

[11:29] Elanthius Flagstaff: You can pay asians a dollar to solve a thousand or some ridiculous thing

'''[11:29] Jack Linden: But we also want to talk about whether traffic is a valid measure, if whether it should be in the search ranking

[11:29] Sierus Sicling: add trafic bots to Abuse reporting ?

[11:29] Marianne McCann: 's true, Dennis. I can see 'em

[11:29] Marianne McCann winks

[11:29] Yann Dufaux: Qie, its not an good idia, because ll lost the possible clients if he add this mesure i think

[11:29] Willow Halfpint: say about 14 hours then it asks you maybe log of, if theres not interaction with the world

[11:29] Ciaran Laval: Well it doesn't get much more extreme than 40 camping bots making the region unusable, 40 would be rampant idiocy on mainland anyway!

[11:30] Fontte Newbold: Technically, you can short-circuit the process and pay gold farmers to farm traffic just like bots.

[11:30] Elanthius Flagstaff: Only a few crazies think traffic is a useful metric

[11:30] Dennis Lagan: lol

[11:30] Fontte Newbold: And then we're right back to the /exact/ same problem.

[11:30] Fontte Newbold: Which is why traffic, as it currently exists, should go.

[11:30] Ewan Mureaux: rampant idiocy comes free with some accounts though :/

[11:30] Willow Halfpint: that would save on Rendering cost, and remove unwanted, Sqwaters

[11:30] Marianne McCann: Recently spotted a bot box in Nautilus, for a "tringo" place that clearly gets no real traffic. Seems few think it through

[11:30] CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: we need the statistic

[11:31] CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: I just don't think it should impact search

[11:31] Dirk Talamasca: That might be good Sierus but I'd like to be able to report via a landmark rather than camming in and typing in or individually reporting on 40 different bots.

'''[11:31] Jack Linden: I expect that as long as something is gameable, someone will probably try to game it. But then we have to balance that with how useful it is

[11:31] Carl Metropolitan: I think Traffic is a very useful metric

[11:31] Elanthius Flagstaff: It would be so simple to just remove Search Places. Then the whole problem would be solved

[11:31] Dennis Lagan: asl M linden, he has a nice board with economic statistics he wrote.... even updated real time, and our statistics page is taken offline?

[11:31] Carl Metropolitan: Only a few people with their own agendas want to get rid of it.

[11:31] Fontte Newbold: Personally, I'd favor a switch to pagerank based on profile hits and either teleports, or SLURL links.

'''[11:31] Jack Linden: As a measure on land, for the owner to see, it has value. As a way to decide search order.. if gameable it's unreliable.

[11:31] CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: except that there's still a huge number of people in SL who use search places above any of the other searches

[11:32] Ewan Mureaux: well deal with it as a givernance issue, if you cant tie the bots to one main account warn the land owner and suspend them from search for a week

[11:32] Carl Metropolitan: And they tend to mock the tens of thousands of people who use traffic-based rankings daily

[11:32] CharleneTrudeau Lorefield: I used to, but I'm liking being able to search by non-exact search strings so I'm using all more

[11:32] Willow Halfpint: i dont think traphic sould really,,improve your search,, i mean look at NCI, and US, we give usefull help,

[11:32] Ciaran Laval: How many people even know what Traffic means though Carl?

[11:32] Willow Halfpint: but some sex place will have 50000 traphic

[11:32] Fontte Newbold: I seem to recall similar arguments about the old Vote boxes :D

[11:32] Fontte Newbold: And stipend based on positive ratings.

[11:32] Carl Metropolitan: If they care enough to find out they, know.

[11:33] Fontte Newbold: It's not a question of having a useful system, Carl.

[11:33] Fontte Newbold: It's about having a useful system that /works/

[11:33] Carl Metropolitan: Just because something can be gamed does not mean you should throw it away.

[11:33] Carl Metropolitan: Elections can be gamed; should countries stop having them?

[11:33] Carl Metropolitan: It is impossible to create a system that is perfect.

[11:33] Dirk Talamasca: Make the numbers visible only to the parcel owners much as you make certain land settings private.

[11:33] Dennis Lagan: but much worse then this is not possible

[11:34] Fontte Newbold: And should that stop us from trying to improve the systems we have? :P

[11:34] Willow Halfpint: rules come from majority,, if everyone agreed on things it would be a rule, its freedom that removes rules

[11:34] Willow Halfpint: so to set rules is very hard

[11:34] Fontte Newbold: (Also, elections have their own issues that are being sorted out. I highly recommend reading some of Lessig's stuff on Citizen-funded elections)

[11:34] Carl Metropolitan: Fontte--you are not talking about improving traffic--you are talking about getting rid of it.

[11:35] Carl Metropolitan: There are lots of great ideas for improving traffic

[11:35] Fontte Newbold: I'm talking about replacing it as a metric with a better system that is provably more effective than having people camp sims.

[11:35] Ciaran Laval: What do you get from traffic? I'm more interested in unique visitors, I have no idea how long someone spent on my parcels

'''[11:35] Jack Linden: Carl, if there were fairer measures of how high things should be in search, wouldn't that be worth doing than leaving traffic as the only one?

[11:35] Fontte Newbold: I need only cite the difference in search ratings between MSN Search, Yahoo, and Google, in terms of bot-driven results.

[11:35] Carl Metropolitan: "I'm talking about replacing elections with a better system that is provably more effective than having people vote"

[11:36] Fontte Newbold: -_-

[11:36] Fontte Newbold: Now that's just a silly twisting of my words that utterly misses the point. :D

[11:36] Willow Halfpint: i think, it sould be judged on Usefullness,, Traphic,,, And Lindenlabs

[11:36] Fontte Newbold: I miss Linden Picks. :)

[11:36] Carl Metropolitan: I find traffic very useful

[11:36] Willow Halfpint: via seeing a place is the only real way to know if it benifits users

[11:36] Carl Metropolitan: Places is the first tab I used when looking for an item.

[11:37] xstorm Radek: all bot's are not the same and you can not look at them as the same

[11:37] Willow Halfpint: LL started this with the showcase

[11:37] Charlene Trudeau: Carl, one thing to remember there is that we are old school

[11:37] Ciaran Laval: How do you measure it Carl? It's generated by how long people stay, we don't know how many people visited or why someone stayed longer.

[11:37] Charlene Trudeau: is that true of people who started after the new all search came into being?

[11:37] Carl Metropolitan: The thing is we have a google-type system already: Search All. We also have Classifieds--and Places

[11:37] Carl Metropolitan: Each has their place and users.

[11:38] Carl Metropolitan: If you don't like traffic, no one forces you to use Places.

[11:38] Charlene Trudeau: and all can be drilled down to places too

[11:38] Equinox Pinion: how is traffic calculated....if you would take unique visitors per day...wouldnt that solve the problem

[11:38] Carl Metropolitan: If you don't like paid ads, no one forces you to use Classifieds

[11:38] Fontte Newbold: Well, before we continue, I'd like to hear you defend traffic as a metric with merits beyond "it's the incumbent system"

[11:38] Dennis Lagan: not everyone knows how the search results come to them Carl

[11:38] Dennis Lagan: i even think most don'rt know it at all

[11:38] Fontte Newbold: Seriously. I'd like to know what makes Traffic such a special system.

[11:38] Carl Metropolitan: If you don't like Page Rank type systems , no one forces you to use Search All.

[11:38] Charlene Trudeau: but I"m pretty sure all has some effect from traffic too, doesn't it, Jack?

[11:38] Fontte Newbold: I doubt many in this room know why we have elections and a democratic process in most first-world nations.

[11:39] Dirk Talamasca: A problem with picks and a determination of usefulness is that it requires staff to make those determinations and the location of an establishment can change at a moments notice. Very hard to keep that sort of thing updated.

'''[11:39] Jack Linden: Not sure but I think it features in All too, to some extent

[11:39] Fontte Newbold: (Also, bear with me, this is so not a governance debate)

'''[11:39] Jack Linden: But i could be wrong on that

[11:39] Charlene Trudeau: and, hate to tell you this, but all is being gamed heavily, as well

[11:39] Ciaran Laval: Traffic is supposed to have some effect in all, but much diluted

[11:39] Qie Niangao: if Search All were more reliable, I think eventually nobody would use anything else. but yeah, it has problems, too, with very weird SEO effects.

[11:39] Drongle McMahon: Easy Fontte - it's to keep the electorate quiet

[11:39] Carl Metropolitan: My point is that Traffic is one of three "incumbant" systems

[11:39] Fontte Newbold: Drongle: Ha! :D

[11:40] Carl Metropolitan: Each have their strengths and weaknesses.

[11:40] Charlene Trudeau: and all can be gamed

[11:40] Carl Metropolitan: I'd like you to defend why you want to eliminate a resource that many many people find very useful.

[11:40] Marianne McCann: Without elections, yu'd have no presiedent's day, and wouldn't know when to have yer president's day sale. Simple!

[11:40] Charlene Trudeau: classifieds are just the most obvious about it <G>

'''[11:41] Jack Linden: I'm not sure we talked about removing traffic completely, for a parcel owner it might be a useful stat, but as a way to decide search order, it's not great

[11:41] Fontte Newbold: I think the real question we need to be asking isn't "how do we stop traffic" or "how do we can all the bots," but instead, "how do we make searching both more useful to actual searchers, and tied to their results?"

[11:41] Charlene Trudeau: Jack, would it be feasible for mainland to put an avatar cap per parcel to the % of land owned for the region?

[11:41] Elanthius Flagstaff: The main thing about gaming all is it doesn't involve bringing the sim to a grinding halt by overloading it with avs

[11:41] Charlene Trudeau: see, for bots on an estate where you own the whole region, you can program the bots to auto log if the parcel or region is full

[11:41] Willow Halfpint: i have to go people RL, thanks for letting me sit in, and good luck Carl keep cracking at it

[11:41] Charlene Trudeau: but on mainland....

'''[11:41] Jack Linden: Charlene, you mean have visitors limited like prims?

[11:42] Charlene Trudeau: yes

'''[11:42] Jack Linden: make it tough to fly about

'''[11:42] Jack Linden: you'd never be able to cross an area with people in it. :)

[11:42] Dirk Talamasca: Objects set to Show in Search are majorly gaming search... Type in "Mens Hair" have a look at the objects on the parcel beneath result #1

[11:42] Charlene Trudeau: you can't now with bots filling a region

[11:42] Carl Metropolitan: This is fucking insane. Why break existing things to fix a problem (camping bots) that is not a technical problem.

[11:42] Fontte Newbold: Dumb question, Jack? Internally, do you have any statistics whizzes crunching out bot behavior?

[11:42] Fontte Newbold: As in, "we see these bots doing X, Y, and Z across this many sims?"

[11:43] Fontte Newbold: That'd probably be the best way to get a handle on the scope of the problem.

[11:43] Ewan Mureaux: bots= abuse of region resources, please just nforce it

'''[11:43] Jack Linden: Fontte, we do. We see the db load for example

'''[11:43] Jack Linden: We see the searches that Land Bots run

[11:43] Charlene Trudeau: see I have to explain this to commercial folks who want bots/campers in my regions. You only have x number of avatars allowed, if every commercial parcel starts having even four or five campers/bots/whatever, no one will be able to come shop

[11:43] Marianne McCann: I agree. Losing traffic is not the cure to it. Busting the bots is

[11:43] Drongle McMahon: Charlane - that would be only 0.3 avs allowed on a 512!

[11:43] Charlene Trudeau: /menods, so not workable

[11:43] Fontte Newbold: "Busting bots" is an extremely hard practice, though.

[11:44] Charlene Trudeau: so different on estate

[11:44] Marianne McCann: So taking the lazy way is better, Fontte?

[11:44] Elanthius Flagstaff: So you bust bots and go back to camping. Is everyone happy with that because that kinda sucked too

[11:44] Fontte Newbold: And, as presented, bots in Second Life do have their limited service uses.

[11:44] Carl Metropolitan: Offer a 100L$ a head bounty for the first person to report each traffic bot :)

[11:44] Sierus Sicling: Make it n ARable offense ?

[11:44] Charlene Trudeau: I think realistically, you're left with having to rely on an AR system

[11:44] Charlene Trudeau: but

[11:44] Fontte Newbold: How is "getting an idea of the types of bot abuse" the lazy way?

[11:44] Rails Bailey: busting bots, if in doubt, ar and let gteam make the call

[11:44] Fontte Newbold: Seems like a good angle on the problem to me. :)

[11:44] Charlene Trudeau: what about estate? do the same rules apply? if not its a hugely unfair advantage to estate

[11:44] Carl Metropolitan: License (or require premium accounts) for useful bots.

[11:44] Marianne McCann: Fontte - I was referring to losing traffic as a viable stat

[11:44] Elanthius Flagstaff: And then you get bots campping. The underlying problem is that the metric for ranking is proprtional to how badly the sim runs

[11:45] Fontte Newbold: Busting traffic is really more of a sub-topic, because it (like Events) is slowly petering out as a useful measure of actual traffic due to bots.

[11:45] Fontte Newbold: But it's a symptom, not the cause, of the behavior. :)

[11:45] Fontte Newbold: And it bears mentioning that moving to a system like PageRank, while better, would just offset the use of bots in gaming practice.

[11:46] Fontte Newbold: What I'd like to know, is how Google handles this problem.

[11:46] Charlene Trudeau: in many instances traffic for shopping for clothing, furniture, etc is in inverse proportion to the quality

[11:46] Ciaran Laval: With shopping I really don't see how long someone stays in a store is a useful metric after the first five minutes.

[11:47] Charlene Trudeau: not the same with places like NCI, of course, wherever every dollop of it is earned :)

[11:47] Ciaran Laval: With a club, that's probably a useful metric

[11:47] Fontte Newbold: What I will say is that policy in putting a lid on technical practice is /very/ hard to enforce, unless you have a clear interface that you can use to stop abuse.

[11:47] Fontte Newbold: A captcha is a good idea from an earlier age, but those are gameable, and put a lid on /useful/ bots.

[11:47] Carl Metropolitan: NCI doesn't get much traffic from traffic.

[11:47] Dennis Lagan: google mostly takes the amount of links to the page, like you have the pictures in some people profile in sl infuencing search as well.... (and can ofcourse be tricked too) at least this doesn't cost extra bot-load on the database.

[11:47] Elanthius Flagstaff: Google doesn't take into consideration the traffic to a site at all. It uses nothing like traffic. Probably because it knows it would be hopelessly gamed

'''[11:47] Jack Linden: for some people the L$ spent would be a better metric

[11:47] Carl Metropolitan: But it is useful to to us as a metric.

'''[11:47] Jack Linden: than time spent stood there

[11:47] Charlene Trudeau: what kind of lid on useful bots?

[11:48] Carl Metropolitan: That's a great idea for a metric. Just as gameable as traffic, though.

[11:48] Charlene Trudeau: on an estate region, how many models is the region owner allowed?

[11:48] Fontte Newbold: Elanthius: Yes, but Google's link-based system still has a gaming angle. Particularly, bots that spam links to blogs and wikis.

'''[11:48] Jack Linden: Yes google also doesn't explain it's full ranking method.

[11:48] Fontte Newbold: Which is why I, again, ask how they handle this problem.

[11:48] Carl Metropolitan: I have alt 1 buy stuff all day from main account store 1

[11:48] Fontte Newbold: Because what they do seems to work.

[11:48] Charlene Trudeau: what about if you register useful bots and their avatars are removed from traffic ranking?

[11:48] Charlene Trudeau: is that possible?

[11:48] Elanthius Flagstaff: Right, but that was my earlier point. If I make lots of fake sites pointing to my site to game google at least I'm not bringing the internets to a grinding halt by creating so much network traffic

[11:48] Dirk Talamasca: Realistically it is tough to gague that sort of usefulness even in a club, Ciaran. People can get involved in an IM, in an e-mail, on the phone or on the web and pretty much just stand in a location or on a poseball completely oblivious to SL.

[11:49] Fontte Newbold: Forced registration probably won't happen; it'd just give a recourse if you're caught with your hand in the cookie jar.

[11:49] xstorm Radek: if the Bot in using a free account its not a good bot at all and just makes problems as long as its on the sim server

[11:50] Ciaran Laval: Sure Dirk, but I'd expect that to happen less. If I'm looking for a location to rent a store the first thing I look for is bots or camping because most of those guys won't be shoppers.

[11:50] xstorm Radek: you can have a bot that will not use up a free user account but will use a prim bot server

[11:50] Dirk Talamasca: Agreed

[11:50] Rails Bailey: dont see why LL cant get rid of free accounts and charge a min of 5 US a month for a basic account, pay to play

[11:50] Charlene Trudeau: bear in mind, xstorm, that I'm from the other side, my focus is on estate where its a lot easier to manage the resources. And we do have good legit uses for any number of types of bots.

[11:51] Charlene Trudeau: WE started there, Rails. It had its issues, too. I'm very pro free accounts.

[11:51] Sierus Sicling: Rails: paying would realy put people off joining

[11:51] Rails Bailey: and reduce the griefing element

[11:51] Fontte Newbold: Really, the only effective answers I can come up with are a Turing test for bots (good luck there), or moving the issue to a centralized system that's easily queriable and updatable by the Lindens.

[11:52] Sierus Sicling: you shouldnt have to pay to enjoy second life :)

[11:52] Fontte Newbold: One idea comes to mind:

[11:52] Fontte Newbold: On a per-avatar basis:

[11:52] Fontte Newbold: Are Lindens able to compute the traffic ratio across all sims that avatar has visited?

[11:52] Ciaran Laval: Plenty of people with basic accounts pay, you don't need to be premium to own a private island

[11:52] Carl Metropolitan: Free accounts are not the issue here.

'''[11:52] Jack Linden: what if only Premiums and above generated traffic?

[11:52] Charlene Trudeau: no way, Jack

[11:52] Ciaran Laval: No Jack

[11:53] Sierus Sicling: that would be an intresting idea

[11:53] Charlene Trudeau: do you know how many people don't have premiums?

[11:53] Elanthius Flagstaff: Yeah let's be cautius about all this bot-fever. I use bots to monitor my estate performance, track new renters, create dynamic notecards, send group invites and a million other things that it would be a shame to lose.

[11:53] Fontte Newbold: Pay to vote?

[11:53] Ciaran Laval: Estate land doesn't need premium members

[11:53] Qie Niangao: Well, Jack, I'm afraid the traffic bot would still be cost-effective.

[11:53] Charlene Trudeau: I know estate owners that don't simply because they don't have to

[11:53] Carl Metropolitan: I proposed that in a forum thread. The idea was soundly taken apart for good reasons.

[11:53] Charlene Trudeau: never mind all the folks living on them

[11:53] Carl Metropolitan: Let me send you the link.

[11:53] Charlene Trudeau: thanks, CArl

[11:53] xstorm Radek: even if a person owns a estate the free account running a bot is the problem and will make problems on other sims and sim wide grid problems

[11:53] Fontte Newbold: I would say that's interesting, but would skew things extremely.

[11:54] Qie Niangao: (For other reasons, parcel owners *might* be interested in Premium traffic statistics)

[11:54] Fontte Newbold: Given the notoriously low premium adoption rate.

'''[11:54] Jack Linden: hmm yeah estates being different would make that trickier.

[11:54] Elanthius Flagstaff: I think it would be an interesting move Jack. It would be one small way to make premium more valuable and any traffic bots would at least be paying into LLs coffers for the privilege

[11:54] Dytska Vieria: If LL can identify bots, why not limit the number of bots/sim?

[11:54] Fontte Newbold: Well, as a statistic, sure. But as a general metric...

[11:54] Elanthius Flagstaff: It's hard to complain about people paying for the services they use

[11:54] Dennis Lagan: in many casesthe percentage of premium visitors should be about the same as normals, but guess there are as many specific places with an audience where it wouldn't work for.

[11:54] Charlene Trudeau: I know one heavy bot user, her estate is attached to mine

[11:54] Carl Metropolitan: http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=256330&highlight=Premium+Account+Bots

[11:54] Charlene Trudeau: her justification? I can so I do. If I can't, I won't.

[11:55] Fontte Newbold: Back to what I was poking: Can LL run a query that shows the traffic throwoff of individual avatars, versus the number of sims they dropped traffic on?

[11:55] Asterion Coen: oh, need to run soon :)

[11:55] Ciaran Laval: That's the general response from bot runners Charlene, I fully understand why they do it

[11:55] Sierus Sicling: have an LL suported client for bots so that they can be identifeid and removed from a parcel when it is rahing the avatar limit ?

'''[11:55] Jack Linden: we have all the dwell data etc so yes Fontte, we could

[11:55] Fontte Newbold: I would presume that a very focused traffic rating (one parcel over the course of say, a month) would signal a bot.

[11:56] xstorm Radek: and again not all BOT's are the same !

[11:56] Elanthius Flagstaff: Fontte all those ideas would just be gamed as easily. The traffic sellers would just make their bots moe around amongst the customers

[11:56] Qie Niangao: well, but then dwell-for-hire would be a bigger business: flit the bot from parcel to parcel. same problem with unique-visitor counting

[11:56] Dennis Lagan: i'm sure lindenlabs detection could be easely tricked with updating the bot programs and make them move around a bit for example.

[11:56] Asterion Coen: /nice meeting you folks! i will comeback, the sofa r very confortable :)

[11:56] Charlene Trudeau: Fontte that still doesn't address something like a model bot

[11:56] Elanthius Flagstaff: If you're going to obfuscate and make it harder for bot runners, a legitimate tactic, at least think of something that does slow them down

[11:56] Fontte Newbold: Elanthius: Yeah, I'm just trying to get a handle on the low hanging fruit.

[11:56] Asterion Coen: and have fun :)

[11:56] Fontte Newbold: Charlene: Define model bot.

'''[11:56] Jack Linden: cheers asterion!

[11:56] Charlene Trudeau: who would still have the focused on one area thing but is useful to the shoppers

[11:57] Charlene Trudeau: someone who stands in place wearing an outfit or a skin

[11:57] Fontte Newbold: I'm not attacking bots in general; I'm attacking a specific gamed traffic use of bots.

[11:57] Charlene Trudeau: to show the customers as it it looks really on an avatar

[11:57] Dennis Lagan: you just have to make it a TOS violation for producing traffic. not speaking about crawler bots.

[11:57] Fontte Newbold: Ahhh.

[11:57] Carl Metropolitan: Model bots could be replaced if LL offered a static Avatar prim type

[11:57] Fontte Newbold: ^

[11:57] Charlene Trudeau: which is why I asked for a means to register one sthat wouldn't count for traffic

[11:57] Elanthius Flagstaff: What about greeters and notecard creators and my ticketing system for visitors

[11:57] Charlene Trudeau: that's fine, Carl, but its not realistic now

[11:57] Sierus Sicling: I agree camping bots needs to be a YOS violation

[11:57] Rails Bailey: yer can buy static prim avatars

[11:58] Charlene Trudeau: again, Elanthius, I'd bet you'd register for traffic exclusion in a heartbeat if it meant keeping your useful system

[11:58] Elanthius Flagstaff: Bots are no problem at all, they don't hurt anyone. It's the gaming of traffic by overloading pacels that causes problems.

[11:58] Fontte Newbold: Anyway, I feel your pain on this one; we have the same exact issue where I work, but with the internet as our domain instead of a contained system like Second Life.

[11:58] Carl Metropolitan: I have to run.

[11:58] Carl Metropolitan: Bye

[11:58] Charlene Trudeau: bye carl

[11:58] Fontte Newbold: o/

[11:58] Ciaran Laval: Bye Carl

[11:58] Rails Bailey: had mainland and couldnt get on cos of the bots

[11:58] Charlene Trudeau: take care

[11:58] Marianne McCann: Not the tool, but the use of that tool

[11:58] Fontte Newbold: Have a good one, Carl.

[11:58] Marianne McCann: See ya Carl

'''[11:58] Jack Linden: Yes, as with scripting it's not the bots that are the issue here, it's how they are used

[11:59] Ciaran Laval: If you work towards introducing more metrics traffic gets squeezed

[11:59] Fontte Newbold: What I've discovered is, it is rediculously difficult to distill results to a PASS/FAIL policy when bots or malicious intentions are involved.

[11:59] Rails Bailey: gerroff the polar bear rug

[12:00] Fontte Newbold: My advice? Find a way to penalize sims that are known bot abusers.

[12:00] Fontte Newbold: Traffic bot abusers*

[12:00] Yann Dufaux: i have see an different source of clients to connect a bot.. but its not a second life official viewer ..

'''[12:00] Jack Linden: :) okay folks, I have to head out. this has been a really good debate,lots of good input, thanks all!

[12:00] Ciaran Laval: Cheers Jack

[12:00] Fontte Newbold: Thus targeting a central source of the problem, instead of just The Bots.

[12:00] Fontte Newbold: Have a good one, Jack.

[12:00] Ewan Mureaux: the penalty should be removing them from search for a week, the punishment really fits the crime

[12:00] xstorm Radek: when one person takes up 10 free user accounts and sets up scrips to run them accounts as a bot it makes problems and load on the sim and servers

[12:00] Sierus Sicling: have fun :)

[12:00] Charlene Trudeau: thanks jack

[12:00] Rails Bailey: be safe jack

[12:00] Marianne McCann: Have fun, Jack! Hope that infohub stuff comes in handy!

[12:00] Qie Niangao: thanks Jack.

'''[12:01] Jack Linden: cheers!

[[Category:Jack Linden Office Hours]]

User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2009-02-12

2009-04-30T20:29:05Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2009-02-12 moved to User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-02-12

#REDIRECT [[User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-02-12]]

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-02-12

2009-04-30T20:29:04Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2009-02-12 moved to User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-02-12

'''[11:03] Jack Linden: hey everyone!

[11:03] Kevtun Vandyke: Hello Jack :-)

[11:03] Holocluck Henly: heya jack!

[11:03] Equinox Pinion: hi jack

[11:03] Daniel Voyager: Hello Jack :)

'''[11:04] Jack Linden: Fontte and Talarus, do you guys specially coordinate where you stand?

[11:04] Holocluck Henly was wondering but they do look good

'''[11:04] Jack Linden: they do.. great avatars

[11:05] Fontte Newbold: He doesn't. I just do it for effect.

[11:05] Kevtun Vandyke: Like statues

[11:05] Holocluck Henly: heheh

'''[11:05] Jack Linden: good sized turnout today! good stuff

[11:05] Kyrion Yalin: hallo

[11:05] Kyrion Yalin: greetings

[11:05] Magneto Bashly: MOMMMMMMMIIIIIEEEE

[11:06] Bushido Contepomi: LOL! Let's get to the dirt;)

'''[11:06] Jack Linden: I have a few little updates to go through first if that's okay

[11:06] Holocluck Henly: i think this is my first attendance where no one openly seems ready to kill you for something. It's refreshing Jack

[11:06] Dennis Lagan: i will kill him soon

[11:06] Ciaran Laval: There's 54 minutes to go still

'''[11:06] Jack Linden: Ssshh holocluck!

[11:06] Holocluck Henly raises an eyebrow

[11:06] xstorm Radek: hi Jack

[11:06] Holocluck Henly: *listens for typed update

'''[11:07] Jack Linden: So.. the conclusion the land cutting thread is due today, so we've sent around the blog post internally and should push that out onto the blog later on

'''[11:07] Jack Linden: *to the

[11:07] Ciaran Laval: Are we going to like this conclusion? Or is it a Part Two coming to a sim near you soon type of conclusion?

'''[11:07] Jack Linden: No surprises there, but we are going to deal with land cutting when it's on a large scale, but we won't be impacting personal use situations

[11:08] Holocluck Henly: no i cant hear you

[11:08] Kevtun Vandyke: I can hear you too

[11:08] Bushido Contepomi: Fantastic work Jack!

[11:08] Holocluck Henly: heya marianne!

[11:08] Marianne McCann: Hiya

[11:08] Holocluck Henly takes off voice. overrated

'''[11:08] Jack Linden: so that's good. also..

'''[11:09] Jack Linden: we have a new blog coming next week which is going to be much more conversational

[11:09] Ewan Mureaux: conversational or controversial?

'''[11:09] Jack Linden: so we'll be keeping up a much higher level of dialogue about land

'''[11:09] Jack Linden: hehe ewan

[11:09] Kevtun Vandyke grins

[11:09] Holocluck Henly: depends on the conversation

[11:10] Bushido Contepomi: LOL! *Sit's on the edge of his seat

'''[11:10] Jack Linden: we're going to talk about some of our long term plans and goals and getting you guys to give us early feedback

[11:10] xstorm Radek: it be nice and even better if there was less blog and more inworld content

[11:10] Holocluck Henly: ever go exploring storm?

[11:10] Holocluck Henly: a lot happening east of nautilus

'''[11:10] Jack Linden: so who has something specific they want to talk about?

[11:10] Magneto Bashly: *Rases hand*

[11:10] Dennis Lagan: Jack, the KB for sim conversions has mysteriously in all silence changed. since some time you only need 3 homesteads instead of 4 to convert to a full SIM. with this you have fooled once again hundreds of "early adopters" who converted to full sims right after your excessive tier increase. (some even specially bought some extra to be able to convert). Many of them would have waited for sure to convert if they would have known this. What will you do about this, can those early adopters contact lindenlab, and get one sim back again for each 4 they converted?

[11:11] Holocluck Henly: I did but it has nothing to do with yaaagh nm

'''[11:11] Jack Linden: whoosh! let me read that

[11:11] Dennis Lagan: lol

[11:11] Holocluck Henly: I guess it's his turn

[11:11] DJ Flamand: eh???

[11:11] Ciaran Laval: Surely they have to be looking eventually at three to a core or this doesn't make much sense.

'''[11:12] Jack Linden: right, so you're specifically talking about the conversion from Homesteads to full regions, correct?

'''[11:12] Jack Linden: Ciaran.. yes

'''[11:12] Jack Linden: That's what we're looking at

[11:12] Dennis Lagan: yes. there was nothing else at the time people converted

[11:12] Holocluck Henly: no that was the first question. and that the new blogs debut next week

[11:13] Magneto Bashly: *rases hand, and wait for his turn*

[11:13] Holocluck Henly raises his hand too

[11:13] xstorm Radek shakes head

[11:13] DJ Flamand raises both hands and feets and falls down

'''[11:13] Jack Linden: for Homesteads, which are a different project after the conversion took place, the conversion rules are a little different to reflect the higher cost of that product (particularly the setup fee)

'''[11:14] Jack Linden: Before the conversion they were all Openspaces at a different fee level

[11:14] Magneto Bashly: *Raises hand, can I go next Please won't take long I promess*

[11:14] Dennis Lagan: surz, but that doesn't take away you fooled people by making them convert before. they would been cheaper of by waiting.

[11:14] DJ Flamand: why wasn't that blogged then...?

[11:14] DJ Flamand: little surprised here

[11:15] Dennis Lagan: not only you i guess DJ. so were we., and many others will be if they hear it

'''[11:15] Jack Linden: well, i'm not sure we 'fooled' people as such, that definitely wasn't our intent. we're just reflecting the difference in two products with two value levels. I understand what you're saying but we had to treat them different for those that chose to stick with Homesteads instead of drop those for full regions

[11:15] DJ Flamand: yes they will...that's what I meant

'''[11:16] Jack Linden: Those people had made a choice to accept the higher fees for that product

[11:16] Ciaran Laval: If someone converts three will they get USD$25 credit for the conversion?

[11:16] Dennis Lagan: ok jack, if it was not your intention, what can be done to this? its for sure not a nice thing on top of something that wans't nice to start with

'''[11:16] Jack Linden: Ciaran, no. Not as it stands now

'''[11:17] Jack Linden: Dennis, i would suggest you talk to the concierge team.. they can make a call on whether they are able to help at all.

[11:17] Magneto Bashly: *Raises hand* can I address mr.Jack Linden next my ques won't take long at all I swear it won't giggles

[11:17] DJ Flamand: but you have to wait 5-10 business days Dennis ;)

'''[11:17] Jack Linden: hehe.. go for it Magneto

[11:17] Dennis Lagan: this is not a matter of the concierge team, or you personally, but a general attidude of lindenlab.

[11:18] Magneto Bashly: can you hea me

[11:18] Magneto Bashly: hear

[11:18] Holocluck Henly: no i cant

'''[11:18] Jack Linden: I can hear your voice yes, but lets keep this in text please

[11:18] Magneto Bashly: oh

[11:18] Holocluck Henly: too lagged. took it off

[11:18] xstorm Radek: text is to keep logs

[11:18] Seany1235 Blinker: hello everyone

'''[11:19] Jack Linden: yeah and not everyone is comfortable in voice

[11:19] xstorm Radek: some use voice dictation system to type

[11:20] Holocluck Henly: maybe it needs batteries

[11:20] Magneto Bashly: this is the deal, My friend owns a sim, over there is Kev siting on the couch my sl Mommy owns land on that sim, they use a warps systeim on the land kev don't care if i'm there, on her land but the people who run warps don't want me there becuase i'm a chilhd Avtar even tho I do nothing wrong the only time i'm there is when I have to update my mommy store becuase she's not a builder the ques is can they froce me out

'''[11:20] Jack Linden: for those that are interested, the average Mainland price is continuing it's very slow rise. Dropped alittle over the last few days but still up overall

[11:20] Bushido Contepomi: LOL! Click the lttle talk button (Bottom Right:) Magneto:)

[11:20] Magneto Bashly: simpley becuase of the way I look

[11:20] Magneto Bashly: I think if there more details to this Kev ccan take the floor as he's been dealilng with this issiue

[11:21] Timo Daehlie: it will drop the coming days too

[11:21] Talarus Luan: They can do whatever they want on their own land, yes. (within the ToS, of course)

[11:21] Timo Daehlie: some have a reverse auction atm

'''[11:21] Jack Linden: Magento, basically it is the landowners choice who they allow on their land. If the landowner wishes to exclude someone, that is their call. It would only be something we would get involved with if there was actual harrassment

'''[11:21] Jack Linden: *magneto

[11:21] Magneto Bashly: there more to it then that Kev could you explain

[11:22] Ewan Mureaux: on exclusion, the knowledge base state that scripted devices should give a warning, is that still the case/

'''[11:22] Jack Linden: reverse auction Timo?

[11:22] Timo Daehlie: yes ... start high priced .. lower it each day or hour until all is sold

[11:22] xstorm Radek: sounds like a scam

[11:23] Magneto Bashly: the point is kev don't own the arps system or the lic to it can thoe that he's in patership with tell him if i'm on his land basicy you lose yoru warps

[11:23] Ciaran Laval: It's not a scam

[11:23] Magneto Bashly: do they have that right

'''[11:23] Jack Linden: Ewan, if that's in the KB then yeah. Otherwise people get hurled about and don't have a chance to steer themselves away

'''[11:24] Jack Linden: If the warps thing, whatever that is, isn't doing as the landowner wants it to, then the landowner can remove it presumably. but we wouldn't overrule a landowners choice about who is on their land

[11:24] Kevtun Vandyke: It's just that other people are forcing me to drive people out of my sim cause of a combat system that is running there. That is what Magneto means. If I don't do what they wish I will be excluded from their Estate cause they feel child avatars should not be associated with combat. This is something I agree with, but as they don't participate I am still being forced into sending people off from my own region over this.

'''[11:24] Jack Linden: who oans the land Kevtun?

[11:24] Marianne McCann: /mes ears perk up

'''[11:24] Jack Linden: *owns

[11:24] Kevtun Vandyke: But the Warps system is a combat system the land runs on, and the residents are mainly there cause of that system so it would hurt my business

[11:25] Kevtun Vandyke: I do

[11:25] Ewan Mureaux: I saw mari punch someone once so kids can be violent

[11:25] Ewan Mureaux: jk

[11:25] Holocluck Henly: :P

[11:25] Talarus Luan: If she hasn't, she probably will soon. :P

[11:25] Stud Grut: i have a question Mr. Jack Linden what should i do about someone importing and distributing my real life information

[11:25] Talarus Luan: File an Abuse Report, Stud

'''[11:25] Jack Linden: well, then that is a decision you'll have to make as the owner i'm afraid. if you don't like the results of using that system then you'd need to not use it. it;s really between you and whoever provides that combat system for you

[11:25] Ciaran Laval: Disclosure is a TOS offence

'''[11:26] Jack Linden: we wouldn't get involved

[11:26] xstorm Radek: yes it is

[11:26] Kevtun Vandyke: I understand...that answers my question. Thank you Jack

[11:26] Magneto Bashly: so people are allowed to desc agiant child av's

'''[11:26] Jack Linden: Stud.. that is a ToS violation so you should abuse report them.

[11:26] Talarus Luan: People are allowed to discriminate over ANY avs for ANY reason, on their own land.

[11:27] Holocluck Henly: yup sad to say but true. cant you just switch avs for the process then back? consider it an RPG change

[11:27] Magneto Bashly: one last ques mr.Jack the only resctions child av's have is when it comes to age play which at one time I dindt' know what that ment but basicy sexuel content is that correct? in my understanding? that's the only resctions we have?

'''[11:27] Jack Linden: creative thought Holocluck!

[11:28] Stud Grut: thank you i will

[11:28] Holocluck Henly: sure if you PLAY an adult in it then you get away with it

[11:28] Talarus Luan: Yohan!

'''[11:28] Jack Linden: ageplay is a violation, that's correct.

[11:28] Magneto Bashly: what I ment is

'''[11:28] Jack Linden: I think the KB has information on that

[11:28] Marianne McCann: If you'd like Magneto, I can go over the specifics of the age play regulations offgroup

[11:28] Magneto Bashly: child av's can do what ever they want as long as it doesn't invloe sexuel activey right

[11:28] Equinox Pinion: there is a rumor going around that the teengrid and the maingrid will be merged...is that true?

[11:28] Holocluck Henly: it isnt clear to the general public that ageplay is specifically sexual activities and content with minors and images of minors

[11:29] Holocluck Henly didnt see equinox raise HIS hand

'''[11:29] Jack Linden: Equinox, it's something we're looking at but there is a lot to be done before that would be possible so nothing is certain yet

[11:29] xstorm Radek: there has been a lot of RP vampire people going in to non RP sims and attacking people and ignoring the TOS and rules of the sim will some one do some thing about them i have seen a company pull out od SL do to that

[11:29] Holocluck Henly: well hope you decide NOT to

[11:29] Holocluck Henly: been there done there everywhre else on the net

[11:29] Equinox Pinion: i hope you will NOT do that

[11:29] Kevtun Vandyke agrees with Equinox

[11:29] Holocluck Henly: i think you'll get an overwhelming no way from the residents

[11:29] Bushido Contepomi: I dress as a Panda Sometimes Magneto, and only have been aproached once, have no fear!

[11:29] Talarus Luan: banhammer the vampires! :P

[11:30] Holocluck Henly raises his hand again

'''[11:30] Jack Linden: ?

[11:30] Magneto Bashly: am I right to say as a child avtar I can do what ever I want to do as long as it doesn't inv sexuel activey? is my understanding on that right?

[11:30] Talarus Luan: O.o

[11:30] Holocluck Henly: well mag you cant be really in an area where sexual content or activity is going on

[11:30] Ewan Mureaux: as long as it doesn't break any of the TOS and CS I would assume

[11:30] Ciaran Laval: Magneto Marianne is a bit of an expert in that area

[11:30] Holocluck Henly: even if you're not yourself

'''[11:30] Jack Linden: Magneto, it's probably not the best place to go into that, at this meeting.. but read the KB and talk to the support team

[11:30] Marianne McCann: Jes a bit

'''[11:30] Jack Linden: They can answer your questions

[11:30] Marianne McCann grins

[11:31] Holocluck Henly: :)

[11:31] Magneto Bashly: kb?

'''[11:31] Jack Linden: knowledge base

[11:31] Talarus Luan: You're not really a minor in RL, are you? :D

[11:31] Holocluck Henly: kb = knowledge base

[11:31] Dytska Vieria remembers Marianne's "Boogerhead!" sign...

[11:31] Holocluck Henly: heh

'''[11:32] Jack Linden: who else has a topic for us?

[11:32] Holocluck Henly raises his hand

[11:32] Holocluck Henly: yes

[11:32] Ewan Mureaux too

[11:32] Evil Titler: Ashley McKinley needs a new title! To set it, anyone may say the text on /13. Ashley is not able to change it.

[11:32] Eleonora Porta: @ jack: what has a project managed by educators do, what documents or other have they to produce in order to have a land in teengrid and what time does it take, please?

'''[11:32] Jack Linden: go for it

[11:32] Evil Titler: DJ Flamand has set a new title for Ashley McKinley! Ashley will have to live with this until the next chance for it to be changed.

[11:32] Holocluck Henly: but i guess theres no ciility here

[11:32] Holocluck Henly: i dont come every week

[11:32] Holocluck Henly: civility even

[11:32] Ciaran Laval: Pathfinder is the education man

[11:33] Talarus Luan: It's not normally expected to ask questions in sequence. :)

[11:33] Holocluck Henly: okay great

'''[11:33] Jack Linden: Eleonora.. great question. if you look at the main website you should see a link for educators. And there are KB articles that explain it too.

[11:33] Talarus Luan: Rather informal here.

'''[11:33] Jack Linden: I will ask someone to get in touch to explain it inworld

[11:33] Holocluck Henly: ok. I'll flood over someone else next

[11:33] Magneto Bashly: I will read the KB thanks mr.Jack, one last ques and i'm shuting my mouth lets say i'm minding my own bussness and someone walks up to me and takes there clothing off and I report them could the sim owner get in trouble or just the person who did that bad thing that's a ques that the KB doesn't answer and many sim owners like KEv is concerned about this that's my last ques thanks everyone for listening to me

[11:33] Eleonora Porta: ty

[11:33] Holocluck Henly: no matter your age magneto thats ARable i think if it's intentional

[11:34] Holocluck Henly: i mean your avs age

[11:34] Holocluck Henly: sexual activity is consentual and MATURITY is practicing that

'''[11:34] Jack Linden: Magneto, we wouldn't normally get involved with abuse situations on a private estate.. that is for the estate owner.

[11:35] xstorm Radek: then AR the owner

[11:35] Brie Janick: lol

[11:35] Holocluck Henly: I've heard of plans for additional continents (at least three more named Gaeta, for example). Wondering whether these too involved special Linden communities like Nautilus or Bay Cities. (more)

[11:35] Holocluck Henly: These may be nice for LL's infusion, but for trying to provide a themed community, a good chunk of both are for sale. Many entrepreneur wannabes auctioned to unrealistic prices and expect people to buy their rollovers (dont ask me why).

[11:35] Magneto Bashly: ~*~ otay ~*~ reason i asked is some sim owns think that if they got reported they woudl lose there sim over soemthing they have no contorl over once again thanks for your time i'm done

[11:35] Holocluck Henly: Is or would Linden Lab look into the possibility of freezing resales of mainland in doubleprim areas to encourage actual settlers and discourage auctions from reaching insane levels?

'''[11:35] Jack Linden: Holocluck: soo.. current plans..

[11:36] Ewan Mureaux: Jack: I'm concerned about skirting the edges of the advertising rules regarding having an item on land for sale vs having a "for sale sign" which I don't. The worry being that the object becomes recognised asa sign that the land is for sale or rent. Obviously I would like to err on the side of caution. Can you please tell me the process to go through, the checks and measures to verify that I'm not now and never have been an "ad-farmer" so that I may conduct my business safe in the knowledge that there is no grey area and that I am fuly compliant?

[11:36] Holocluck Henly: one at a time ewan

[11:36] Marianne McCann: Jack - can you speak at all about the land swap in Sinica, freeing up the right of way for the SLRR?

[11:36] Holocluck Henly: :)

'''[11:36] Jack Linden: we're still holding on new Mainland auctions, we only put new land out when we have developments like Nautilus (which has only happened twice)

[11:36] Holocluck Henly: and the prices - 400+ US$ for modest land in Bay City? Never gonna develop.

'''[11:37] Jack Linden: we have several continents prepped, called Gaeta 2, 3 and so on. they are fairly small and we're not likely to use them any time soon as the auctions are on hold

[11:37] Talarus Luan: Yep. That's Bay City's problem :)

'''[11:37] Jack Linden: oop let me read, need to catch up..

[11:37] Holocluck Henly: i'm wondering if special restriction in special areas may call for special rules to deter these kinds of investors a tthe auctions

[11:37] Fontte Newbold: Apologies for withholding my input for now. I got coldcalled into a meeting. :)

[11:37] Holocluck Henly: i dont think LL had in mind this when they made all that nice custom stuff and a theme

[11:38] Talarus Luan: Dunno how it could be done any other way than simply selling it at a fixed price. That's kinda the point with auctions.

'''[11:38] Jack Linden: Ewan, that's a difficult one to answer because it's going to be subjective and we'd need to look at what objects you are using and how they look

[11:38] Ciaran Laval: Not everyone is looking to flip land in Bay City and Nautilus, indeed some are actively working to try and get a boost for saod areas

[11:38] xstorm Radek: with all the main land thats not getting used and just sitting its a shame no one is using mainland like they did at one time

[11:38] Ewan Mureaux: can I schedule a meeting?

[11:38] Holocluck Henly thinks wait where's my answer

'''[11:39] Jack Linden: So i wouldn't be able to just give an answer. If there is advertising involved, then chances are that we wouldn't allow it. But we'd need to look first

[11:39] Dennis Lagan: speaking about the mainland, one of the sims in the blake sea is group owned, by a group where some USS owners are set as Owner (displayed bold) in that group. I do think thats one step to far. a few weeks ago you told us here they didn't get anything for free, just "added value', but this is cleary a free mainland region. there are many sailing clubs around on the mainland, and they alll pay for the areas where they need to place their starter lines and such. i think you should revoke this rights immediate, or develop a complete system where everyone can have the same possiblities via a trasparant process (not just saying "you can contact me for questions about it," we tried to write you 6 times for 2 months by now with just one response saying you would like to discuss further, but any subsequent attempts were completely ignored, including decline of the notecard. -- if this was not meant to be, whats the estimate amount of months one has to wait?)

[11:39] Holocluck Henly: i dindt ask about the availability of special land in the future i asked what measures may be taken to discourage flippers and encourage actual homesteaders on these mainilands without violating tos

'''[11:40] Jack Linden: Holocluck, we haven't considered freezing double primmed sales as such, I'm not sure what that would achieve

'''[11:40] Jack Linden: By the way, I can confirm that we *are* going to add an Infohub to Bay City

'''[11:40] Jack Linden: As originally planned

[11:40] Holocluck Henly: well it means if someone wanted a quick buck or 600 bucks off the fever of a new land, they would be discouraged from driving the auctions up by not bidding

[11:40] Ciaran Laval: What discourages flippers is land not selling

[11:40] Marianne McCann just got the word on that as well

[11:40] Holocluck Henly: making the way for people who actually want to USE the land to afford it

[11:41] Marianne McCann: (Which is why I've been so quiet. Ims!)

'''[11:41] Jack Linden: Ewan, yes.. I will ask someone to get in touch

[11:41] Holocluck Henly: yes ciaran but tier is king

[11:41] Holocluck Henly: if they need to hold onto a chunk of extra tier because they cant resell while the new place is fresh and the hot spot then they wont be inclined to bid

[11:41] Holocluck Henly: one would hope

[11:42] Talarus Luan: I think that, in the case of those "special" areas, the market has to be left to tend itself.

'''[11:42] Jack Linden: Holocluck, I think our view in general is that prices match demand with auctions, but that does mean sometimes people over stretch themselves, and then land recycles for less. over time it tends to settle doen

'''[11:42] Jack Linden: *down

[11:42] Marianne McCann: Any word on other hubs, Jack, other than Bay City?

[11:43] Holocluck Henly: jack, people paid almost a thou. they have their land for sale since day 1. we know it wont sell. how can this be prevented in the future orr does it take care of itself?

'''[11:43] Jack Linden: We're going to look at Nautilus to see if there is a suitable spot for one, away from resident owned land

'''[11:43] Jack Linden: But no otehr definite plans

[11:43] Holocluck Henly: somehow i have little faith on shallow category human nature lol

[11:44] Talarus Luan: People went stupid and overbid themselves speculating on what is really a "small bump" in difference with regular mainland, then they will eat tier until they drop their prices.

[11:44] xstorm Radek: if free accounts was setup so they can not build i bet that will lower island price do to less load on the servers and it make more money coming in to SL and LL

'''[11:44] Jack Linden: Holocluck, it will take care of itself. Nautilus for example is still quite new

[11:44] Ciaran Laval: Well Nautilus has had the USS and Blake Sea boost, I wouldn't be surprised if something comes to Bay City to boost that.

[11:44] Qie Niangao: The more "special" land there is on the grid, the stupider the stupidly-high-priced land will look in the old spots.

[11:44] Talarus Luan: yep

[11:44] Marianne McCann: Ciaran... like a Western expansion.

[11:45] Marianne McCann winks

[11:45] Holocluck Henly: there is. areas north of bay city have been built

'''[11:45] Jack Linden: Bay City will expand too, in time. Nautilus is different in that it can't grow which makes land there very finite

[11:45] Holocluck Henly: there's rumors of western expansion yeah

[11:45] Dytska Vieria: What about expanding (completing) areas on the first 3 old continents?

[11:45] Qie Niangao: Lots of Gaeta to be built still, and no cities yet on Jeogeot, etc.

'''[11:46] Jack Linden: it was always intended that Bay City keep going, we want to add more suburban areas, perhaps more commercial, and so on. more like a real city feel

[11:46] Holocluck Henly: were there plans for cities in all areas? I didnt think of that lol

[11:46] Holocluck Henly: well if people settle there and actually feed into the theme :)

'''[11:46] Jack Linden: Dytska, we've talked about starting a new City area on one of the older continents yes. Hard to find a good spot for it though

[11:47] xstorm Radek: more citys but the roads on mainland are more then half gone whats the point ?

[11:47] Elanthius Flagstaff: How about right next to my store? That would be very convenient

[11:47] Holocluck Henly: half gone?

'''[11:47] Jack Linden: I would like a City on each continent, but we'd need a lot more Moles for that hehe

[11:47] Holocluck Henly: gaeta has all its roads in. they go one continent at a time

[11:47] Marianne McCann grins

[11:47] Marianne McCann: I'm shovel ready, Jack.

[11:47] Bushido Contepomi: LOL @ Elanthius:)

[11:47] Ciaran Laval: There are more roads around now, the moles have been busy

'''[11:47] Jack Linden: xstorm, we've been repairing a lot of road, so there shouldn't be big gaps in the roadways any more

[11:47] Holocluck Henly too lol

[11:48] xstorm Radek: Jack Linden i wish i was a mole but im only a cat

'''[11:48] Jack Linden: :)

[11:48] Holocluck Henly looks at storm. you want me to do the bunny thing again?

[11:48] Talarus Luan: SO, you were saying earlier that the landcutting policy blog is due out today, or?

'''[11:48] Jack Linden: Yes today

[11:49] Talarus Luan: Coo

[11:49] Dytska Vieria: No arguing about what Strawman is in the forums!

'''[11:49] Jack Linden: Then after the new blog goes live, we'l lstart talking about Traffic and Camping bots

[11:49] xstorm Radek: what about putting a blog screen in this room so people can stop in and read inside SL ?

[11:49] Holocluck Henly: my question in there got lost in the thread. how can it be detected if someone cuts up 16sqms temporarily to reconfigure land without trying to sell it. i been there since i am on a diagonal in anilis

[11:49] Ciaran Laval: and the conversational blog is due before the end of next week?

[11:50] Holocluck Henly: mmm camping bots.

'''[11:50] Jack Linden: xstorm.. ooh.. that's a great idea

[11:50] xstorm Radek: ;-)

[11:50] Elanthius Flagstaff: Agreed Dytska, let's do "begging the question" next time

[11:50] Talarus Luan: If they aren't trying to sell it, they won't be affected

'''[11:50] Jack Linden: Holocluck, we can see cutting in the land data, and we can watch to see what the intent is

'''[11:51] Jack Linden: It's not difficult to spot at all

[11:51] Talarus Luan: ..or otherwise trying to harass their neighbors with it.

[11:51] Holocluck Henly: or selling to specific person for 1? LOL done that too to pass parts over

[11:51] Holocluck Henly: ohh

'''[11:51] Jack Linden: Ciaran, next week the new blog appear

'''[11:51] Jack Linden: *s

[11:51] Holocluck Henly looks over jack's shoulder

[11:51] Elanthius Flagstaff: Really next week, or, like, submitted to PR next week and then really out the week after

[11:51] Holocluck Henly: it's like my old superuser days with the ISP

'''[11:52] Jack Linden: really next week. early next week.

'''[11:52] Jack Linden: next

'''[11:52] Jack Linden: week

'''[11:52] Jack Linden: :)

[11:52] Elanthius Flagstaff: LOL

[11:52] Seany1235 Blinker: brb

[11:52] Talarus Luan: Put that on a recording box and have people press it for an answer. :p

'''[11:52] Jack Linden: I think Blue is going to post something about it tomorrow to the current blog as well, so keep an eye open for that

[11:53] Bushido Contepomi: LOL!

[11:53] Holocluck Henly: I have another issue jack. Someone sold SOME land to my neighbor, then the land parallel to me was abandoned. he could have offered it to me and my neighbor but didnt. its been several months. we dont see this going to auction obviously, but we feel we should have this land at least offered to us

[11:53] Talarus Luan: Thing is, it is always accurate, even if it never comes out! :D

'''[11:53] Jack Linden: I really can't wait to be honest, it's going to allow us to have much more open conversation about ideas and policies etc

[11:53] Dennis Lagan: jack, why was the rather good looking economic statistics page downgraded to a bunch of links to xls files, making the land sales comparisons and other stuff from month to month much more complex? (http://secondlife.com/statistics/economy-data.php) further the page has also been removed from the links on the main residents page of the website, and replaced by a "marketplace" link (http://secondlife.com/whatis/marketplace.php), with not a lot of interesting information...

[11:53] Ciaran Laval: Spit it out Jack

[11:53] Holocluck Henly: this land would mean me and my neighbor would own a neat square of land

[11:53] Ciaran Laval: :)

[11:53] Elanthius Flagstaff: Holochuck, if it's small put in a ticket they give away land to people who are neighbours on three sides all the time

[11:54] Talarus Luan: Put in a ticket about it, and ask for it to be added to the auction queue.

[11:54] Holocluck Henly: well together we make two sides

'''[11:54] Jack Linden: Holocluck if it's abandoned then file a support ticket asking if you can have it

[11:54] Holocluck Henly: then theres the edge of a region

[11:54] Talarus Luan: How big is it?

[11:54] Holocluck Henly: whats 2048-512?

[11:54] Elanthius Flagstaff: ::cough:: http://ninjaland.net/stats/

[11:54] Holocluck Henly: my math is shut down

[11:54] Talarus Luan: 1536

[11:54] Holocluck Henly: that

[11:55] Holocluck Henly: it mirrors my current piece

'''[11:55] Jack Linden: Dennis, we're revamping that info because we want to add better data

[11:55] Dytska Vieria: Jack, today I discovered a 1024x1024x100 mega prim in the sim next door (Zale). I don't know how long it has been there. It was AR'ed and gone in a minute (thank you), but is there any way to prevent such huge objects being rezzed on mainland?

[11:55] Talarus Luan: Yeah, put in a ticket and ask if they can put it in the auction queue quicker

[11:55] Holocluck Henly: i'll try that

[11:55] Dennis Lagan: in the meantime you could leave the old in place :) this is a downgrade

[11:55] Talarus Luan: Prevent? no.

[11:55] Elanthius Flagstaff: Yeah but Jack, why take down the old data? It's very disappointing after you would come here and go on and on about improving it and providing more data

'''[11:56] Jack Linden: Dytska, no current way to prevent them i'm afraid, though we jump on them pretty quickly

[11:56] Holocluck Henly: oh Dy and Jack: we had HELL and I mean HELL because someone had a full sim megaprim in the nEXT region and it crossed over slightly into ours . it was terrible lag most of the time. AR after AR. when it was gone suddenly we could all move

[11:56] Holocluck Henly: so this should be taken seriously when a mega crosses regions

[11:56] Holocluck Henly: it kills us

[11:57] Dytska Vieria: Sometimes, they are so huge you cannot see them

[11:57] Holocluck Henly: oh it was clear on our side

[11:57] Talarus Luan: Hmm. Haven't seen that. Megas don't seem to affect us.

[11:57] Holocluck Henly: traveling the borders i found it

[11:57] xstorm Radek: if a mega prim is crossing over you can AR it and have it removed

'''[11:57] Jack Linden: Elanthius, hmm yeah, I can see your point. But the old data was either wrong at worst or misleading at best. Almost no-one really understood what it was telling them.

[11:57] Holocluck Henly: well it took a couple months before it was gone and we still dont know if it;s because they left. maybe LL didnt do anything?

[11:58] Holocluck Henly: but it sure did bad stuff in a then little inhabited region

[11:58] Stud Grut: Mr. Jack Linden What are the steps i need to take to reoprt the TOS abuse of the one importing and giving out my personal info and convos not in SL i have never done it before and i just give you the note card this person is spreading around?

[11:58] Talarus Luan: Yeah, it depends. Has it been since the Havok 4 update?

[11:58] Holocluck Henly: yes it has talarus

[11:58] Holocluck Henly: it ended last month

[11:58] Talarus Luan: Weird. Must be some kind of edge case.

'''[11:58] Jack Linden: Stud, from your Help menu.. file an Abuse Report

[11:59] Holocluck Henly: megas and edges are bad

'''[11:59] Jack Linden: 'Report Abuse..'

[11:59] Ciaran Laval: Megas can be bad anywhere, they used to get dropped and then there would be reports of people being unable to walk or sit anywhere

[11:59] Holocluck Henly: stud is there any reason you would give out personal info in SL?

[11:59] xstorm Radek: only some mega are bad

'''[11:59] Jack Linden: so, it's that sad moment when my office hour ends and another meeting beckons. thank you all as always!

[12:00] Bushido Contepomi: Thanks Jack:)

[12:00] Qie Niangao: thanks, Jack.

[12:00] Talarus Luan: I suppose, though I only use them as phantom, myself.

[12:00] Ciaran Laval: Cheers Jack

[12:00] Dennis Lagan: see you next week! byebye :)

[12:00] Holocluck Henly: megas like lasers - can be used for good

[12:00] Kevtun Vandyke: Thank you Jack :-)

[12:00] xstorm Radek: if you take a 600 X 600 and cut it yes thats bad

[12:00] Holocluck Henly: later Jack!

[12:00] Ewan Mureaux: cheers jack, I'll drop you an email as a reminder about my question

'''[12:00] Jack Linden: here's to the new blog and more chatter. :) take care all

[[Category:Jack Linden Office Hours]]

User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2009-01-15

2009-04-30T20:26:59Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2009-01-15 moved to User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-01-15

#REDIRECT [[User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-01-15]]

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-01-15

2009-04-30T20:26:59Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2009-01-15 moved to User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-01-15

'''[11:11] Jack Linden: hi folks

[11:11] Qie Niangao: greetings, Jack

[11:11] PulseBurst Flow: hi

[11:11] Indigo Mertel: Hi Jack

[11:11] Talarus Luan: Hi Jack

[11:11] Magistus Faulkes: Hi Jack

[11:11] Amara Faulkes: Hiyas Jack

'''[11:11] Jack Linden: so sorry i'm late. today is back to back meetings. :)

[11:11] Bushido Contepomi: Hello Jack Linden, lovely day is it not?

[11:11] Ciaran Laval: Turn left for seating

[11:11] Talarus Luan: Is OK.. we're used to it by now. :)

'''[11:11] Jack Linden: it is cold and windy, so yes, lovely. :)

'''[11:12] Jack Linden: haha Tal. So let's get that out of the way to start with.. the Land Cutting blog post is booked for the 21st.

'''[11:13] Jack Linden: I don't think anything in there is a suprise, and we'll be asking for feedback before a final decision a week after the blog post.

'''[11:13] Jack Linden: :)

[11:13] Talarus Luan: OK

'''[11:13] Jack Linden: so who has something they'd like to talk about?

[11:13] Bushido Contepomi: Thank-you Jack

[11:14] PulseBurst Flow: I have an objection to Linden land

[11:14] PulseBurst Flow: being turned over to private groups

[11:14] PulseBurst Flow: protected..becoming private

'''[11:14] Jack Linden: Pulse: is this about the sailing project?

[11:14] PulseBurst Flow: with no consulation with neighbors

[11:14] Khamon Fate: Somebody IM me what the land cutting post is about please.

[11:14] PulseBurst Flow: no, it is about cancelled infohubs

[11:14] Talarus Luan: So, we get the blog post on Tuesday you open a post for feedback in the forums at the same time, then the following Tuesday the final blog post is made, incorporating any (hah) feedback, and then landcutting comes to a grinding halt?

[11:14] Indigo Mertel: me too on land cutting, please

[11:15] PulseBurst Flow: and the blight it is causing

'''[11:15] Jack Linden: wednesday i think Tal, but yes

[11:15] PulseBurst Flow: and the aggrevation that surrounding neighbors are suffering

[11:15] Qie Niangao: landcutting post: yeah, no matter what it is, it will be a surprise to me, good or bad

[11:15] Talarus Luan: You're right, Wedneday

[11:16] Elanthius Flagstaff: Some infohubs were cancelled?

[11:16] Khamon Fate: PulseBurst do you mean that LL are auctioning former infohub land?

[11:16] Elanthius Flagstaff: Is this about Lias again?

[11:16] PulseBurst Flow: Not auctioning, feting them, it seems

'''[11:16] Jack Linden: land cutting is basically about the practice of slicing a parcel into many small pieces and selling them all off, basically because it can be more lucrative but also to annoy the neighbours. :)

'''[11:16] Jack Linden: we have some people currently who are cutting land in large quantities

[11:16] Indigo Mertel: oh, wow! this sounds very interesting

[11:17] Elanthius Flagstaff: We do? Are you sure Jack?!

[11:17] PulseBurst Flow: and these infohubs...8 months in progress..

'''[11:17] Jack Linden: which is making those areas pretty grim for the residents

[11:17] PulseBurst Flow: totally buillt by LDPW Moles

[11:17] Indigo Mertel: I know, we have fought that a lot in our area

[11:17] PulseBurst Flow: now cancelled..

[11:17] PulseBurst Flow: and seemingly given to a private group

[11:17] Talarus Luan: Khamon and Indigo: No more of this, basically: http://etakeh-oh.net/adless/gallery/index.php

[11:17] PulseBurst Flow: that is not a non-profit

[11:17] Indigo Mertel: thanks Talarus

[11:17] PulseBurst Flow: or education

[11:17] Elanthius Flagstaff: Pulse: Which group?

[11:17] Elanthius Flagstaff: Why be so coy, just spit it out

[11:17] Khamon Fate: They can query number and size of parcels per resident very easily Elanthius.

[11:17] Qie Niangao: which infoHub? the one for Bay City?

[11:18] PulseBurst Flow: I am talking about Hyannisport.

[11:18] PulseBurst Flow: and Helfell..

'''[11:18] Jack Linden: Pulse: the hubs are dealt with in a different area than mine, but I can pass on your views. do you want to drop me a notecard that i can send on?

[11:18] Elanthius Flagstaff: </sarcasm> 

[11:18] Melodie Darwin: What is going on with the land auctions? There has been 1 USD auction in the past week, and the $L ones have really low starting prices.

[11:18] PulseBurst Flow: and group is Livelyzens

[11:18] PulseBurst Flow: and..well..Jack..there are quite a number of people concerned about it..

[11:18] PulseBurst Flow: have discussed with..

[11:18] PulseBurst Flow: if you are not the right Linden.;

[11:18] PulseBurst Flow: then who is?

[11:19] PulseBurst Flow: it is a land issue

[11:19] PulseBurst Flow: Blue is unresponsive

[11:19] Khamon Fate: /thank you

[11:19] Kentucky Friedkin: Jack: I have a parcel on the eastern edge of Eurodium. To the east of Eurodium is Toyger, which is a maintenance (empty) coastal region. I noticed that Route 7 is planned to go through Toyger, and is already surveyed by the DPW. While I don't mind the route itself, I do want to know if Toyger will be commercially developed after Route 7 is finished.

'''[11:19] Jack Linden: Okay, let me see if i can get hold of Blue to find out more.

[11:19] Kentucky Friedkin: (I like my view) :P

[11:20] Elanthius Flagstaff: Surely Jack or the moles even don't get to decide what the residents built

[11:20] Qie Niangao: (Livelyzens??? That's just insane.)

[11:20] Joan Monstre: my friends and i, we own Noether... until some days ago, all was nice

[11:20] PulseBurst Flow: The Livelyzens...only have about 5 or 10 active members..

[11:20] PulseBurst Flow: but claim more

[11:21] PulseBurst Flow: use place as sandbox.

[11:21] Elanthius Flagstaff: OK, I have a real question. What would be the trigger for you to start selling mainland sims again? Prices are moving up slowly, although not a lot. Makes me worry you might start printing land again

[11:21] Joan Monstre: but now, Hyannisport is the ugliest sim in SL for sure

[11:21] PulseBurst Flow: there are numerous sims vacant that could that been given to them..

[11:21] PulseBurst Flow: if that is what you wanted to do.

[11:21] Joan Monstre: we liked Noether and we payed a lot of money for our lands

[11:21] Joan Monstre: a lot

'''[11:21] Jack Linden: Kentucky, that depends. if it's a full region that is simply waiting to be auctioned, then it may be sold off one day.. if it's genuine protected land then it's unlikely anything will change

[11:21] Joan Monstre: and now we can't understand why LL alows so garbage in Hyannisport

[11:22] Joan Monstre: that sim is not the best place for noobs without control

[11:22] Joan Monstre: Hyannisport

[11:22] Joan Monstre: was a nice place

[11:22] PulseBurst Flow: here are some pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/34404624@N04/

[11:22] Joan Monstre: and we think Hyannisport must to be protected land

[11:22] Joan Monstre: like a park

[11:22] PulseBurst Flow: yes, Joan and his friend own entire sim bordering it..

[11:23] PulseBurst Flow: now they are so fed up..they are moving out

'''[11:23] Jack Linden: Elanthius, yes land prices have definitely ticked up a little but not enough. we *might* put a few select regions up simply because they have been prepped for a long while and we're getting requests to sell them, but i'm only talking about a handful

'''[11:23] Jack Linden: it's not high enough that we can just start auctioning volume again

[11:23] Elanthius Flagstaff: OK, thanks.

[11:24] Ciaran Laval: How's the camping.bot policy coming along?

[11:24] PulseBurst Flow: Joan...funny you say Hyannisport must be protected...if you look at the land name..it already says "Protected" they didn't know enough to change it after they got it from Lindens

'''[11:25] Jack Linden: i'm looking into the infohub thing now.

[11:26] PulseBurst Flow: They have no signifigant build there..just layed out some freebie junk, disco floors.. would not be hard to move them, they have only been there few weeks

[11:26] PulseBurst Flow: it's been done before, I understand..at Olive sim.

'''[11:26] Jack Linden: we're looking at the camping issue. especially the deliberate driving up of traffic

[11:26] Khamon Fate: I don't remember such a thing happening in Olive

[11:27] PulseBurst Flow: maybe before your time..

[11:27] PulseBurst Flow: used to be a sandbox..

[11:27] Khamon Fate: I doubt that

[11:27] PulseBurst Flow: I understand.

[11:27] Elanthius Flagstaff: What's wrong with this build in Hyannisport? Looks OK to me

[11:27] Kentucky Friedkin: Jack, I understand. But as a general guideline, are the Routes being planned to include open spaces where possible? I've flown the proposed route around Gaeta, and it includes a lot of untouched coastal regions (as well as passing into some populated areas), and it does look good as it is

[11:27] Elanthius Flagstaff: Oh, haha, apart from the 10,000 giant physics cubes that just turned up

[11:28] Kentucky Friedkin: this is still Route 7, BTW

[11:28] Joan Monstre: The buildings made by moles in Hyannisport are very nice

[11:28] Qie Niangao: Can't remember how the land was handled for the old infoHubs... whether Prok's group owned the Memory Bazaar land during development, or how that worked.

[11:28] Joan Monstre: the problem is thenoobs garbage now

'''[11:28] Jack Linden: Kentucky, i think we're trying hard to fit with the area, and we certainly can and do grab abandoned parcels along the routes and use them for parks etc. Best thing to do is to talk to Michael if you have concerns

[11:29] Kentucky Friedkin: Will do. I planned to meet with Michael, but his "office" according to the wiki is gone. I'll PM him

'''[11:30] Jack Linden: well, i will dig up what info i can today. i'm not aware of us giving land to a group so i need to find out

[11:30] Qie Niangao: so, Jack, any hints on the direction for the traffic gaming policy? any hope it will remove traffic from search completely?

'''[11:31] Jack Linden: Qie, that is definitely one of the options. I think it would help but not totally remove the issue ((green dots attract more dots)

[11:32] PulseBurst Flow: Also...after all these years...Lindens, and LDPW...does not set auto-return on Linden land when finishing a project.

[11:32] PulseBurst Flow: at Helfell..

'''[11:32] Jack Linden: I'm also more broadly concerned with how we deal with one resident using all the resources continually, when they only own a small amount of the region

[11:32] Indigo Mertel: nods

[11:32] Joan Monstre: Jack, my English is not good (i'm from Spain), and in this moment what i can say to my neighbors in Hyannisport about our problem ???

[11:33] Qie Niangao: ah, of course part of that might be related to scripts, as well as avatars

[11:33] PulseBurst Flow: I think Joan..he is saying...he is looking into it.

'''[11:33] Jack Linden: Pulse, it should get set though it doesn't always immediately as we have to come along and force own the content to make it 'sticky'

[11:33] PulseBurst Flow: and is not right person to ask..

[11:33] PulseBurst Flow: immediately?

[11:33] PulseBurst Flow: it has been months

[11:33] PulseBurst Flow: junk piles up...and Squatter Group now found it

[11:33] Bushido Contepomi: Jack: Will Unpaying Avatar's that own land under the guise of a group be aloud to continue the practice of ALT unpaid account's trading land? Will this be addressed in the blog?

[11:34] PulseBurst Flow: yesterday woman set up sex business there

[11:34] PulseBurst Flow: in LDPW Infohub

[11:34] Khamon Fate: Addressing your broad concern Jack, how is the script limitation project progressing? Will that only apply to Homestead regions as a whole; or are y'all thinking to apply it to parcels within a sim as well?

'''[11:34] Jack Linden: Joan, I am tryingt o find out for you. It's not something I was a part of so I need to look into it

[11:34] Joan Monstre: ok, thanks, Jack

[11:35] Joan Monstre: i'm sure you will do something about that problem

'''[11:35] Jack Linden: Bushido.. do you mean Basic accounts buying/selling land via groups?

[11:35] PulseBurst Flow: Jack, another problem with asking Blue...is that the damage done, was his decision...so of course he thought it was a good idea..

[11:36] PulseBurst Flow: so to him..might be a "done deal"

[11:36] Elanthius Flagstaff: It's hard to believe they just gave the land to some specific group. Are you sure it didn't gop up for auction?

[11:36] PulseBurst Flow: no redress for neighboring land owners

[11:36] Magistus Faulkes: also pertaining to script limits, is there any idea yet as to how limited they will be?

'''[11:36] Jack Linden: Khamon, the script limit functionality will be available in all regions but we're still discussing how we'll implement it and how widely. the key thing is that we're gathering the data and obviously don't want to make many people rework content

[11:36] PulseBurst Flow: It never went to auction

'''[11:36] Jack Linden: So we have to make the limits sensibly high

[11:37] Khamon Fate: I have no problem with us having to rework content if it solves the problem.

[11:37] PulseBurst Flow: The head of the group is KosmiK Guru. She has a video about the Livelyzens here if anyone is interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS3_1GD2iMw&eurl=http://livelyhotpicks.blogspot.com/

'''[11:37] Jack Linden: Pulse, I'm not sure of the details but I will talk to Blue and we'll have a look at the situation

[11:37] PulseBurst Flow: They are mostly nice people..so no issue with that...

[11:37] Khamon Fate: But then, I have no problem with y'all migrating us to a more stable grid and starting all over ha ha ha

[11:38] Bushido Contepomi: *allowed to be listed as owners of the group (hence the land owner)

[11:38] Joan Monstre: Kosmik ?

[11:38] PulseBurst Flow: they are just caught in middle..when Blue, it seems, decided to give or sell land to them

[11:38] Joan Monstre: i thought it was Terminator

[11:38] PulseBurst Flow: no, Kosmik

[11:38] Joan Monstre: it's a joke :)

[11:38] PulseBurst Flow: lol

[11:38] Ciaran Laval: What's your concern there Bushido? Someone is paying the tier for the land, are they abusing the land?

[11:39] Khamon Fate: Bushido do you want basic alts in a group to not be able to buy and sell land for the group?

[11:39] Elanthius Flagstaff: Yeah, what are you talking about Bushido?

[11:40] Elanthius Flagstaff: BTW Pulse, I noticed the ugliest build in the sim, the giant green and yellow robot was yours

'''[11:40] Jack Linden: Bushido, if you can give me some examples to look into i'd be happy to

[11:40] Khamon Fate: Oh thanks for the answer Jack. It's good to know that scripting limits will be applied fairly across all of the simulators. One concern though will be double/triple primmed sims that have large areas of mostly empty land. Perhaps the feature should be optional so estate owners can turn it on or off only not on homesteads because I'm talking too much again aren't I/

[11:40] PulseBurst Flow: Oh, people tell me it is cute Elanthius

[11:41] PulseBurst Flow: and that is not in their sim

[11:41] PulseBurst Flow: it is in mine

[11:41] Bushido Contepomi: My concern is that these unpaid alts will be used to avoid any penalties after the blog is posted, and the cutters will suffer no loss, and continue the practice

[11:41] Elanthius Flagstaff: What is an unpaid alt? You mean non premium avatars? You want to block them from buying land?

[11:42] Khamon Fate: Maybe LL will raise the minimum size of selectable land to 512sm

[11:42] Elanthius Flagstaff: No it'll be some social limit involving ARs and the G Team and whatever else

[11:42] Khamon Fate: or even more intelligently, raise it and the premium tier to 1024sm

'''[11:42] Jack Linden: :) khamon, i think that my hope is to share the data with you all as best we can, so that you can see what we're basing decisions on and give your views

[11:42] Talarus Luan: I think the issue is that a lot of the landcutters are using throwaway alts to "hide" their activities by using groups.

[11:42] Khamon Fate: That doesn't work Elanthius, never has, never will

[11:43] Talarus Luan: I would tend to think that any further landcutting would not only sanction the group, but the group members supplying the tier for the land.

[11:43] Khamon Fate: Oh I'm just throwing ideas in the mix to give y'all some laughs around the table.

[11:43] Elanthius Flagstaff: Hmm, I suppose that could be tricky Talarus if they donated tier, bought the parcel, remnoved the tier and then cut it up leaving group negative

[11:43] Talarus Luan: the "bad" kind of landcutting that is

[11:43] Indigo Mertel: Jack, about a month ago I sent a card to you following your blog post on the relocation of the USS to Mainland. You came over to Helvellyn and you offered your help to improve sailing in pour area. We are putting together some info, we have some issues that we wish to bring to your attention. What I'd like to know is what would be the best way for you to proceed about our case. We would be interested in having a meeting, if possible.

[11:44] Talarus Luan: Well, I would *hope* that LL tracks those kinds of transactions

[11:44] Elanthius Flagstaff: OK that reminds me

[11:45] Elanthius Flagstaff: This is serious.

[11:45] Elanthius Flagstaff: If I buy land and put it in a group. I can remove all the donated tier and leave it that way for months

[11:45] Elanthius Flagstaff: Essentially owning land and not paying tier

'''[11:45] Jack Linden: Bushido, i think that's a very valid concern, however, we can see land activity regardless of who is doing it.. and we can detect land cutting equally easily

[11:45] Elanthius Flagstaff: When are you gonna fix that shit?

[11:45] Khamon Fate: months? SRSLY?

[11:45] Ciaran Laval: Months?

'''[11:45] Jack Linden: So i don't believe that it will go unnoticed for long

[11:45] Elanthius Flagstaff: Well, I never tested literally months, but definitely a long time.

[11:46] Talarus Luan: There was speculation for a while that a few of the extortionists were using throwaway alts, pay premium for a month, buy a 512sqm plot's worth of 16sqm holes, price them at L$777 or L$999 or whatever, cancel the premium, and do that over like 10 alts, since reclamation used to take months.

[11:46] Khamon Fate: MONTHS1?

[11:46] Elanthius Flagstaff: Betcha, I'll test it

[11:46] Ciaran Laval: I thought it was a couple of days

[11:46] Elanthius Flagstaff: I seriously doubt LL are monitoring negative tier groups at all

[11:46] Khamon Fate: I've never risked it more than a few minutes.

'''[11:46] Jack Linden: one suggestion has been that we clamp the for sale price of any parcels 64m and under, to the market rate per meter.

'''[11:46] Jack Linden: as a way to discourage cutting

[11:47] Khamon Fate: D'ya know when we paid taxes, they didn't monitor negative account balances at all.

[11:47] Khamon Fate wishes I'd known that then

[11:47] Talarus Luan: Yeah, that's been suggested, but you all have panned it out-of-hand because of your "don't meddle in the market" stance.

[11:47] Talarus Luan: Is that potentially changing?

[11:48] Khamon Fate: Who doesn't meddle in the market?

[11:48] Elanthius Flagstaff: How will you determine the market rate? Everyone in this room thinks your market rate numbers are total nonsense

[11:48] Khamon Fate: Have you LOOKED at the Lindex lately?

[11:48] Khamon Fate: doesn't meddle ha ha ha ha ha

[11:48] Talarus Luan: Khamon: Note I used quotes "" :)

[11:48] Ciaran Laval: Why 64M?

[11:48] PulseBurst Flow: I see good land under $4L/m sq

[11:49] Bushido Contepomi: I do not believe LL's land market rate is nonsense Elanthius.

[11:49] Khamon Fate: It's true Jack, you should just say some set rate we determine.

[11:49] Elanthius Flagstaff: Bushido, not sure what Jack thinks it is right now, probably 7/sqm?

'''[11:49] Jack Linden: Elanthius.. agreed that we have to make that number transparent and explain it.

[11:49] Elanthius Flagstaff: No, no, not fixed rate that'll ruin the market

[11:49] Talarus Luan: I wouldn't be opposed to the idea, myself, but 64sqm is a pretty low limit

[11:49] Khamon Fate: They can adjust it weekly or so

[11:50] Khamon Fate: 64sm is too low a limit

[11:50] Bushido Contepomi: Elanthius: for micro plot's?

[11:50] Talarus Luan: Prince regularly makes 80-128sqm "linked" plots

[11:50] Elanthius Flagstaff: Only if they can reliably determine the market rate. They can't even count how many sims are in the grid

[11:50] Talarus Luan: IE, 4 corners + a donut hole

'''[11:50] Jack Linden: what would you consider a valid market rate calc for mainland? we use the average of completed transactions, per meter and we exclude various outlyers such as auction land and zero fee transactions

[11:50] Khamon Fate: The market rate for micoplots is 7582L/sm

[11:51] Talarus Luan: With the ability to link any parcels in the sim, they can easily get above 64sqm and still be extorting 16sqms

'''[11:51] Jack Linden: we look at mean average and median, and we splitt he data into all, individuals and groups, and mainland vs estates

[11:51] Ciaran Laval: Surely it needs to be a sim by sim rte to make sense

[11:51] Elanthius Flagstaff: The way I see it, all the land that hasn't sold yet is too expensive. So the market rate is L$0.01 below that

'''[11:51] Jack Linden: surely the market rate is what is being actually bought and sold?

'''[11:51] Jack Linden: the for sale prices are a different measure

[11:52] Talarus Luan: sim to sim is hard, because not all sims have comparative plots for sale.

[11:52] Khamon Fate: Yes to do this effectively, sims will need to be assigned a desirability code, based on various factors, that can be used as a multiplier for a lowest common rate

[11:52] Elanthius Flagstaff: The difficulty of course is that land is not fungible so some shitty 300sqm plot is worth way less per sqm than some awesome waterfront thing

[11:52] Talarus Luan: ..and to be frank, the "value" of a 16sqm microparcel is what you would pay LL for it: L$1/sqm

[11:52] Kentucky Friedkin: Jack, thanks for the info. I talked briefly to Michael, and now I have to get going. Later.

[11:52] Elanthius Flagstaff: So just looking at averages and minimums and maximums is inneffective anyway

[11:53] Talarus Luan: It's like the coupon cash value

[11:53] Khamon Fate: Well it is over the entire Mainland as a whole, but some sense can be coded into it

[11:53] Khamon Fate: I have to go on tour, thanks for hosting Jack

[11:53] Khamon Fate: see y'all

[11:53] Talarus Luan: Ciao Khamon

[11:53] Ciaran Laval: Cheers Khamon

[11:54] PulseBurst Flow: bye kahmon

[11:54] Bushido Contepomi: Only to those who are bent on making money off of new land owner's by destroying the mainland Elanthius

'''[11:54] Jack Linden: yeah, getting local context in there is tough, however, one of the design goals we have for looking at letting residents buy and sell land through a web front end, is to give you the average historic rate for that region too

'''[11:54] Jack Linden: so that you can get a feel for how that compares to the overall average

[11:54] Elanthius Flagstaff: Oh yeah? That would be really awesome

[11:55] Ciaran Laval: That has potential

'''[11:55] Jack Linden: we could even, i guess.. pull an average for the 8 regions around that one too. it depends on how local we think local is

[11:55] Elanthius Flagstaff: The trouble Talarus, Khamon is that 16s are worth more per sqm than 512s. That's why land cutting works in the first place. And by "worth" I mean the minimum price that no-one will buy it for <G>

[11:55] Joan Monstre: well, i must to go, nice to meet all you, bye :)

[11:56] PulseBurst Flow: bye Joan.

[11:56] Talarus Luan: If you all wanted to go that route, I am good with it; just need to up it to deal with pepper-linking

[11:56] Talarus Luan: Either "smaller than 256sqm" or something around that size.

[11:56] Elanthius Flagstaff: That's a really interesting idea actually. I'd love to see thaht information anyway

[11:56] Talarus Luan: 64sqm would catch very little of them

[11:56] Elanthius Flagstaff: Part of the reason land dealers make so much money is because the market is so incredibly non-transparent.

'''[11:57] Jack Linden: Yeah, it would be fascinating data though i'd probably find that my land is sucky. :)

[11:57] Bushido Contepomi: Take care everyone, and I hope you have a great one, ciao for now all:)

[11:58] Talarus Luan: OK, so next Wednesday.. I suspect next week's office hours should be lively

[11:58] Talarus Luan: I expect a return performance of our "friends" :)

'''[11:58] Jack Linden: maybe! :) i have to run along sadly. sorry for the slightly short meeting.

[11:58] Elanthius Flagstaff: All those ad farmers will be back in force

'''[11:58] Jack Linden: take care guys, thanks for coming along.

[11:58] Ciaran Laval: Nah I think they know the game is up, they're just having a last hurrah

[11:58] Qie Niangao: thanks, Jack

[11:58] Talarus Luan: Maybe Austin will come back and reprise his past performance "There is no extortion!!!"

[11:59] Elisha Paklena: thank you jack :)

[11:59] bigjr Slade: so iebd ?

[11:59] bigjr Slade: end ?

[12:00] Talarus Luan: Yup. That's it

[[Category:Jack Linden Office Hours]]

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2008-10-9

2009-04-30T20:26:19Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2008-10-9 moved to User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2008-10-09: Formatting of name

#REDIRECT [[User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2008-10-09]]

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2008-10-09

2009-04-30T20:26:19Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2008-10-9 moved to User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2008-10-09: Formatting of name

'''[11:05] Jack Linden: good day everyone!

[11:05] Kara Spengler: hi Jack

[11:05] Anja Drevnerussky: hello jack

[11:05] Holocluck Henly: heya jack

[11:05] Bushido Contepomi: Hello Jack, it is a pleasure to meet you, and thank you for opening up this discussion about the ad farm abuses/micro parcel extortion usage (Blog).

[11:05] Kerry Giha: hello

'''[11:05] Jack Linden: oops sorry san

[11:05] Bushido Contepomi: My question is: Will there be information made readily available concerning this issue that will help detour new residence from falling for this scam? Perhaps a warning in the transaction menu of the purchase software that gives the current market rate for land?

[11:05] Nefertiti Nefarious: Don'tsay HIJACK!" The TSA will send us allto jail!

'''[11:05] Jack Linden: i need more chairs.

[11:06] Bushido Contepomi: And why on LL's once beautiful mainland are these abusers still here?

[11:06] Stray Underwood: law of consumerisum, you have the right to sell a product or service for what ever you with.

[11:06] Timo Daehlie: good question

[11:06] Stray Underwood: with = want

[11:06] IntLibber Brautigan: yes what is being done to prevent honest landowners from being extorted out of their land by extortionists fililng false abuse reports just so they can steal someones land?

'''[11:06] Jack Linden: looks like we're off to a brisk start! so.. the land price discussion..

[11:07] Holocluck Henly: wow they just jump into questions here? where's tom brokaw?

[11:07] Talarus Luan: Nope. not land price, land extortion and harassment.

[11:07] IntLibber Brautigan: the bare fact is that high prices on some parcels clearly reflect market scarcity of prims in some mainland sims

[11:07] IntLibber Brautigan: this is market dynamics at work

[11:07] Dytska Vieria: and stuffing the sim with aces

'''[11:07] Jack Linden: so, i've had a bunch of people talking to me about this issue. about whether it is an offence to sell a small parcel for a big price..

[11:07] IntLibber Brautigan: and some people think they can legislate against gravity

[11:08] Qie Niangao: right... when the neighboring parcels sell for 1/100th the price. market dynamics?

[11:08] IntLibber Brautigan: yes

[11:08] Timo Daehlie: lol

[11:08] Fontte Newbold: IntLibber, please refrain from discussing economics unless you clearly understand what you're discussing, thanks. :)

[11:08] Talarus Luan: It's not simply about selling a parcel at a high price, and never was, Jack.

[11:08] ROBO Marx: lol u like that int

'''[11:08] Jack Linden: ..historically, no it is not. your land, you choose how much to sell it for. *unless* there is some other element of harrassment involved other than just the high price itself

[11:08] Dytska Vieria: ...and let Jack finish

[11:08] IntLibber Brautigan: Thanks Fontte, I'm widely recognised as an economics and finance expert in SL

[11:08] Fontte Newbold: The market dynamics aren't those of scarcity. They're of necessity and extortion.

'''[11:08] Jack Linden: now, that said.. we do now need to look at this

[11:08] Rem Nightfire: aye theres the rub

[11:08] IntLibber Brautigan: I've been a guest on Metanomics more times than anybody else in SL

[11:08] Stray Underwood: a high price is not harrassment

[11:09] Stray Underwood: its business

[11:09] Dytska Vieria: who cares, Int?

[11:09] Qie Niangao: metanomics, Doh!

[11:09] Fontte Newbold: Oh. Excuse me for tarnishing your reputation. :) -- Moving right along.

[11:09] Kaddan Yue: ltnadu1

'''[11:09] Jack Linden: because if you look at Search, you'll see a huge pile of tiny parcels for extreme prices of L$900/m or more

[11:09] Fontte Newbold: Precisely.

[11:09] Rem Nightfire: yes....

[11:09] IntLibber Brautigan: thats market dynamics at work

[11:09] Holocluck Henly: 900 is cheap from what i see most of the time

[11:09] IntLibber Brautigan: yes

[11:09] Rem Nightfire: not its not

[11:09] IntLibber Brautigan: prices in bay city are much higher

'''[11:09] Jack Linden: so there may be something we need to do here. but until we make a decision, price alone won't be an offense

[11:09] Stray Underwood: so people should sell for less to make search more ... fair?

'''[11:09] Jack Linden: so i'd ask you give us time to look

[11:10] ThaBiGGDoGG Richez: isnt thats why there is search by land size?

[11:10] Qie Niangao: Jack, fair enough

[11:10] Talarus Luan: How much time are you asking for, Jack?

[11:10] Fontte Newbold: Bay City is an interesting exception where scarcity *does* apply. It's a nifty experiment, even.

[11:10] Ciaran Laval: Jack just tell people to stop acting like dicks, that about covers it

[11:10] IntLibber Brautigan: bah

[11:10] Rem Nightfire: ok jack, it is something that needs to be looked at thankyou

[11:10] Fontte Newbold: I'd be interested on how that plays out.

'''[11:10] Jack Linden: I'm not asking as such, I'm saying that we will make a call on it as soon as we can. i know you'll want quick answers. :)

[11:10] Stray Underwood: The lindens know the backlash of telling people what they can charge for their stuff right?

[11:10] Holocluck Henly: It's not about pricing but abuse. if someone has made a donut hole on land - say a large piece and it may not even be obvious at first -- well, there's an agenda there it isnt JUST about selling land

[11:10] ROBO Marx: selll off

[11:10] IntLibber Brautigan: yes

[11:10] ROBO Marx: su

[11:11] Talarus Luan: Well, are we talking weeks, months, or years?

[11:11] Ewan Mureaux: ciaran thats it in a nutshell "dont be a dick" the only thing that should be in community standards

[11:11] Holocluck Henly: i mean large piece of land and theres this microparcel on it

[11:11] ROBO Marx: when they get to it tl

[11:11] Talarus Luan: ..just trying to pin it down a little bit

[11:11] IntLibber Brautigan: if LL passes price controls the business people will abandon SL and the economy will crash, pure and simple

'''[11:11] Jack Linden: i think in cases where someone has deliberately mislead a buyer into having a doughnut parcel, that is a very different situation

'''[11:11] Jack Linden: and that is definitely not acceptable

[11:11] ThaBiGGDoGG Richez: It's already crashede.......

[11:11] ThaBiGGDoGG Richez: *crashed

[11:11] IntLibber Brautigan: you dont know crashed yet

[11:11] ROBO Marx: lol.09 per sqm here we come

[11:11] Dytska Vieria: yeah, like when gambling was banned, that sure crashed things.

[11:11] IntLibber Brautigan: you wont be able to sell a full sim for more than a hundred bucks when we are gone

[11:12] Ewan Mureaux: It hasnt really crashed for content creators and honest and or talented people

[11:12] Fontte Newbold: I have to agree that price controls are a bad idea, simply because the market will rapidly readjust or move to shadow economies.

[11:12] Holocluck Henly: I have my own scenario and it has become extremely obvious yet technically one cannot pin it down - like a gangster hit LOL...

[11:12] Bloodfrom Inglewood: I agree with IntLibber, price controls is totalitiran

[11:12] Qie Niangao: in the meantime, I wonder if there's any new information about the thinking re: controlling landcutting on old Mainland, and on new zoning for new Mainland.

[11:12] Fontte Newbold: The question is one of killing the problem, not limiting on price.

[11:12] Qie Niangao: the landcutting is picking up again, which suggests some urgency to that policy being implemented.

[11:12] Talarus Luan: Because, Jack, landcutting and strategic microplot placement is continuing unabated while you "think" about it.

'''[11:13] Jack Linden: price controls alone, are tough because they end up being unfair to someone. and we do want land prices to be able to move up and down. but some people are selling hundreds at very high price, and that scale might be an issue in itself

[11:13] ROBO Marx: so is harassing tiny plot owners to get there land TL

[11:13] Stray Underwood: more and more business people are starting to to give up, since this world keeps having the loudest bitcher have true say. And since we have business to run we just dont want to bitch the loudest, business people dont bitch, they leave

'''[11:13] Jack Linden: but we're defintiely very aware of this. and will get back to the community on it

[11:13] IntLibber Brautigan: those who think profit is wrong dont belong in the free market of SL

[11:13] Holocluck Henly: In my 6 months here I was crowded out TWICE via the same method. Someone wants your land. they block view, they use alpha textures which interfere with your build - they do not encroach but they definitely make it unpleasant. It happened with a 512 in may. last week it was with a 2048+ - it seems it doesnt matter how much land they do manage to get you. its very subversive.

[11:13] IntLibber Brautigan: you can go back to active worlds and play with your prims there

[11:13] Ciaran Laval: Jack if you do go price capping how about offering an amnesty to people to clean up their land and form larger parcels before you kick ass

[11:13] Bushido Contepomi: Will there be information made readily available concerning this issue that will help detour new residence from falling for this scam? Perhaps a warning in the transaction menu of the purchase software that gives the current market rate for land?

[11:14] Bloodfrom Inglewood: It's called free enterprise. Maybe you should change the slogan of seocnd life than

[11:14] Talarus Luan: So, no time frame at all, Jack?

[11:14] Fontte Newbold: I don't exactly cry for the "business" people. They incur a risk by coming here. It's more of a question of consistency than who does what where.

[11:14] IntLibber Brautigan: ya change SL to Soviet Life

[11:14] Holocluck Henly: cant pin it down this method but i'll be damned if all the land sold the next day

[11:14] Bloodfrom Inglewood: Your world, Your Imagination. Is very delusional

[11:14] Ewan Mureaux: Intblubber some of us make a reasonable profit without harassing, tarnishing image or otherwise being anti-social

'''[11:14] Jack Linden: ciaran.. agreed, sudden kicking of ass is not usualyl a good idea. as with ad farming we'd talk about it, get feedback, then make a call

[11:14] ROBO Marx: so does that mean ur neighbor cant plant tress now holo

[11:14] IntLibber Brautigan: Ewan you tarnish the image of many people with your socialist propaganda

[11:14] Bloodfrom Inglewood: Second Life is like a shopping center, but only a game. THe owner scan set any rules they wont

[11:14] Bart Heart: I hear all these people bitching about how bad SL is, you dont have to log in

[11:14] Bloodfrom Inglewood: and discard the slogan

[11:14] Stray Underwood: you people need to look up the word harrassment, selling something for a larger profit does not mean harressment

[11:15] Ewan Mureaux: Whats socialist about me turning a profit?

[11:15] Bloodfrom Inglewood: Bart, I put money on this game already.

[11:15] Bloodfrom Inglewood: I think I have the right too

[11:15] Cory Toll: "you people?"

[11:15] IntLibber Brautigan: and thank you for identifying yourself with griefers Ewan

[11:15] Fontte Newbold: My personal conviction is there should be clear rules and enforcement on what infringing parcel use is, including what is considered parasitic behavior. That should be enforced on, and the market should be left well the hell alone.

[11:15] Holocluck Henly: She now owns over 8000sqm of my region and she had 512 2 weeks ago. she built a set of walls high enough to block the sky

'''[11:15] Jack Linden: guys, if you start making this personal again, i will remove you. you get one hour a week with you, lets use it constructively please

[11:15] Holocluck Henly: and we were on a slope

[11:15] Bloodfrom Inglewood: Ok this feelins liek a state of congress

[11:15] ThaBiGGDoGG Richez: Ill take any donations of L$ for those who dont want to log back in anmymore..... It will go to good cause

'''[11:15] Jack Linden: *i get

[11:15] Bloodfrom Inglewood: It's not personal. We didn't use anyones names. It's our feelings. Now we can't exprress ourselves.

[11:16] Holocluck Henly: there was no doubt what she wanted. but technically? who could anyone come to with it if i wanted to stay

[11:16] Nefertiti Nefarious: Holocluck - that would be harassment

[11:16] Talarus Luan: Jack, I am asking valid questions, and not getting any answers. There is no harassment here. Just questions.

[11:16] Bloodfrom Inglewood: Maybe if I get hired by IBM this summer, I will have more liberty in my words.

[11:16] Fontte Newbold: Even though IntLibber there is a little too free market and business rights for me, he does have a point that too much meddling with the market is a *bad* thing.

[11:16] Rem Nightfire: jack, ban lines are still in place on many small parcels

'''[11:16] Jack Linden: so who would like some numbers around ad farm progress?

[11:16] AfroduckFromPC Brim: Sure

[11:16] Nefertiti Nefarious: I would

[11:16] IntLibber Brautigan: those of us who are productive residents of SL dont generally make it to these office hours because we have productive work to do, but we are sick of being harassed and extorted by these socialists who defame us for being successful

[11:16] Bushido Contepomi: yes please Jack :)

[11:16] Holocluck Henly: circumstances were that land i wished i had came available but lets say i'm more than broke with the added tier and bills in RL

[11:16] Ewan Mureaux: since when was social responsibility the enemy?

[11:17] ROBO Marx: ur broke ur beat

[11:17] Holocluck Henly: This may be my only time in a long time to these hours because normally I work at this time

[11:17] Stray Underwood: Since when was profit bad?

[11:17] Dytska Vieria: Please Jack!

[11:17] Bloodfrom Inglewood: Yes, all socialist are uneducated people who failed out in high school can't take care of their kids. So they blame us for going ot school and workign hard

[11:17] ROBO Marx: get an sl job

[11:17] Rem Nightfire: lets hear from jack please

[11:17] Fontte Newbold: I wouldn't quantify success on parasitic advertising revenue, IntLibber. There's a fine line between business and bullshit, so please. :)

'''[11:17] Jack Linden: so.. early numbers suggest that we (or the residents) have lowered the volume of 'ad farm' style content by over 90% from what it was.

[11:17] Nefertiti Nefarious: I have noticed that the roadsides are much prettier.

[11:17] Fontte Newbold: One is a good thing, the other takes money and liquidity out of the system.

[11:17] Rem Nightfire: fantastic

[11:17] ROBO Marx: wel then leave em alone

[11:17] ThaBiGGDoGG Richez: what was the count of ad farms? how do you know its 90%

'''[11:17] Jack Linden: still some work to do, especially with the smaller ad farm operators

[11:18] Bushido Contepomi: Wow Jack, Right On!

[11:18] AfroduckFromPC Brim: It *does* look much better for now

[11:18] ROBO Marx: what kinda work

[11:18] Holocluck Henly: someone in the new region has a tall adfarmish structure and now has a modest cube with art.

[11:18] IntLibber Brautigan: Jack I have been getting reports that alleged 'adfarmers' have been getting harassed by the g-team with warnings on 256 meter parcels that they have absolutely no content on. is this fair?

[11:18] Dytska Vieria: It was very noticible the 1st day

[11:18] Rem Nightfire: jack, the spinning for sale signs seem to be lingering

[11:18] Talarus Luan: Does that number also include content that was removed in error?

'''[11:18] Jack Linden: TheBiggDogg (man that is hard to type): we use sampling partly. we run surveys across areas and watch the level of change

[11:18] Ciaran Laval: Intlibber if they have banlines then yes it's fair

[11:18] Fontte Newbold: I have noticed changes on the ad farming. I've been impressed, but feel consistency of enforcement is still lacking.

[11:18] Holocluck Henly: do they have banlines Intlibber?

[11:18] ThaBiGGDoGG Richez: WoW they had somedone go around count all the ad farms then come up with a % they took down

[11:18] IntLibber Brautigan: that doesnt matter

[11:18] Talarus Luan: Such as information kiosks from a park for a non-profit organization?

[11:18] IntLibber Brautigan: ban lines are a legitimate tool of land owners

[11:18] Stray Underwood: Ciaran no harressment is fair of any kind

[11:18] Qie Niangao: I've noticed a sudden INCREASE in banlines for smallish for-sale parcels.

[11:19] Stray Underwood: its against the terms of use

[11:19] Nefertiti Nefarious: Judgement call on vendors ... I found some large vendors. Had they been static ads,they would have been nonconforming. But is there aloopholeforo vendors?

[11:19] Stray Underwood: whixh dont out line profit as harressment

[11:19] Holocluck Henly: I have to say a more recent continent where my pool shop is the sale signs are still spinning. i dont think the teams been through everywhere yet

[11:19] ThaBiGGDoGG Richez: anyone here get a adfarm survey to them???

[11:19] IntLibber Brautigan: if you ban me from your land do you agree I can AR you for harassing me by preventing me from trespassing?

'''[11:19] Jack Linden: this success has left a lot of chopped up land, so we're looking at how best to handle those

[11:19] Ciaran Laval: banlines shouldn't be on any parcel set for sale, no matter what the size

[11:19] Fontte Newbold: I also think there needs to be MUCH more transparency into this process. Something like a policy wiki that integrates these office hours changes, and any comments from community team lindens that let us open a dialog instead of read between the lines and AR rumors.

[11:19] IntLibber Brautigan: says who?

'''[11:19] Jack Linden: Holocluck.. be sure to AR them please

[11:19] IntLibber Brautigan: you have a right to select who you sell to

[11:20] Fontte Newbold: A lot of the FUD, on both sides, is due to having limited visibility.

[11:20] ROBO Marx: neither should security systems that freeze our software. TIGHT TD

[11:20] Qie Niangao: say what?

[11:20] Bloodfrom Inglewood: Yes its true. This feels like tea tax

[11:20] Holocluck Henly: I have. i think its just a matter of time

[11:20] Qie Niangao: a right to select who you sell to?

[11:20] ROBO Marx: right*

[11:20] Ewan Mureaux: banlines do nothing to stop anyone buying

[11:20] Bart Heart: Well I think LL should put that into there programing, If a lot is for sale then ban lines are off

[11:20] Bloodfrom Inglewood: What about stopping spam?

[11:20] Qie Niangao: like, whites only? wtf do you mean?

[11:20] Bloodfrom Inglewood: Spam needs to be stopped.

[11:20] IntLibber Brautigan: Jack can you please answer my question?

[11:20] Bart Heart: How are would that be Jack?

[11:20] Stray Underwood: Qie, you can sell to who ever you want for what ever reasons

[11:20] Holocluck Henly: Ewan: it doesnt help the sale, which brings to question why ban line a blank plot

[11:20] Bushido Contepomi reminds himself to ban IntLibber Brautigan :)

'''[11:20] Jack Linden: reading back Intlibber.. lots of text

[11:21] Qie Niangao: not according to Intlibber

[11:21] IntLibber Brautigan: Bushido send me an LM to your land so I can AR you

[11:21] Ciaran Laval: It's obvious Holocluk, it's to grief your neighbour

[11:21] ThaBiGGDoGG Richez: I like to know which residents got surveys on adfarm cleanup in their area

[11:21] Fontte Newbold: Give poor Jack a chance to breath. ;)

[11:21] Ewan Mureaux: the question is why banline something thats for sale? its stupid and hardly capitalism in action that sounds like communism to me

[11:21] Talarus Luan: I haven't received any surveys

[11:21] ROBO Marx: can we read minds here

[11:21] Bloodfrom Inglewood: Linden Lab should just have a three branch peoples government that simple

[11:21] ROBO Marx: how do u know what a neighbor is thinking

[11:21] Bloodfrom Inglewood: There are so many people with lindenf riends that ban accounts just because

'''[11:22] Jack Linden: Bart.. we have been talking about doing that. but for larger parcels it may be valid that while selling your land you still want to be protected from certain other residents

[11:22] ROBO Marx: tru im sure

[11:22] Nefertiti Nefarious: Jack: Would it be possible to automatically remove ban lines when a parcel is set for sale?

[11:22] Fontte Newbold: Frankly, if we reflect on where this is a problem, it becomes more clear.

[11:22] IntLibber Brautigan: why discriminating by parcel size Jack?

[11:22] IntLibber Brautigan: thats bigoted

[11:22] Bloodfrom Inglewood: What about the Linde Malpratice?

[11:22] Ciaran Laval: Robo banlines on a for sale plot, come on? There's no excuse for them. I can understand you still might have people on the ban list but there's no excuse for a general ban everyone bar group members

[11:22] IntLibber Brautigan: and intolerant

[11:22] Stray Underwood: It becomes a problem for people not making as much money as others

[11:22] Bart Heart: Right Jack keep it so you can ban names but not everyone

[11:22] IntLibber Brautigan: and therefore a violation of the ToS

[11:22] Holocluck Henly: well does banning them prevent them from buying the land?

[11:22] Fontte Newbold: Ad farms and spam are a lesser issue on private estates, where a second resident can mandate and remove what they feel to be infringing.

[11:22] Holocluck Henly: I can about land a banned parcel

[11:22] ROBO Marx: if u ban certain buyers its fair

[11:22] Ewan Mureaux: discriminating against anti-social behaviour that more often than not happens on small parcels

[11:22] ROBO Marx: then ban u why shouldnt u ban them

[11:22] IntLibber Brautigan: intolerance of small parcel owners is against the Big Six

'''[11:22] Jack Linden: some parcels don't sell quickly. if i had 4096m where i live, and wish to sell it, do i have to go without any ban lines for the entire time I wait to sell it?

[11:23] Fontte Newbold: On the mainland, we rely on Linden judgment and enforcement as our only line of defense against emerging spam and scam threats.

[11:23] Rem Nightfire: because banlines on a small polt isnothing but harassment, pure and simple

[11:23] Ciaran Laval: Yes Jack

[11:23] Qie Niangao: gee, shame small parcel owners only get 3 prims--that's intolerance!

[11:23] IntLibber Brautigan: Rem maybe small parcel owners are tired of your harassment and extortion attempts?

[11:23] Bart Heart: Yes Jack , just ban the people that grief you, not everyone

[11:23] Fontte Newbold: I feel that, if LL intends to continue maintaining the mainland, that they should be proactive about these problems and give us the tools we need to ignore or mitigate offending parcels and uses of neighboring land.

[11:23] Rem Nightfire: are you accusing me of somethiung? if so makeit official or shut up

[11:23] Ciaran Laval: If it's for sale it should be accessible

[11:23] ThaBiGGDoGG Richez: simple fix iswhen land goes for sale there is no ban lines allowed to put on LL could fix their software for that

[11:24] Fontte Newbold: Otherwise we all don't know where we stand.

[11:24] Willy Baroque: if you actually still live there, no problems with ban lines, but on 16m2 its useless

'''[11:24] Jack Linden: i guess maybe the middle ground, is that public entry be forced open for land For Sale, but individuals that are banned remain banned

[11:24] Stray Underwood: It seems alot of you think you know what the word Harrassment is

[11:24] Holocluck Henly: Jack: you are suggesting you still use the land and there's a reason to protect yourself from unsavory types? But then wouldnt you ban by name?

[11:24] Nefertiti Nefarious: Jack - if it's mainland howis the buyer going to check out the terrain and neighbors? Binoculars?

[11:24] Ciaran Laval: Yes that's a good solution Jack

'''[11:24] Jack Linden: yeah that could work and still be fair

[11:24] IntLibber Brautigan: "Live" there? Dude you dont live eat and sleep on your 512 trailer lot.

[11:24] Bloodfrom Inglewood: Great, Solution. If Linden lab would have followed the slogan we wouldn't be her ein the first place.

[11:24] Holocluck Henly: I walk sale land. I want to see my views and what sort of terraforming I would need to do as part of the process

[11:24] IntLibber Brautigan: you have content there, that is all

[11:24] Bart Heart: Yea Macy's is have a sale, but the store is not open. Same as banning peoplle when you have a lot for sale

[11:24] Erie Runningbear: Jack, I don't like ban lines, but I don't believe we should be told we can't ban individuals

'''[11:24] Jack Linden: I'd also like to get ban lines themselves an optional visible item

[11:24] Stray Underwood: so i do not have a say who can be on my land if im selling it

[11:25] IntLibber Brautigan: a merchant with an SLX account needs a 16 meter parcel for his magic box

[11:25] Fontte Newbold: Which raises an excellent secondary question:

[11:25] Fontte Newbold: Script use by land size.

[11:25] Cytherea Eagle: would that include the arbor ban ball induced ban lines?

[11:25] Erie Runningbear: Yes, Jack, why can't we have ban lines that are invisible, like when I try to cross a banned parcel I get a blue drop down

[11:25] Holocluck Henly: someone adjacent to myself and my neighbor has a 48sw plot with a couple trees. no harm.

[11:25] Holocluck Henly: sq i mean

[11:25] Rem Nightfire: invisible is not a solution

'''[11:26] Jack Linden: Erie, i think what we're saying is that For Sale land should be Open, unless you've banned specific residents, in which case those people would still be banned

[11:26] AfroduckFromPC Brim: Makes sense to me

[11:26] ROBO Marx: if i have a fence around my house would it deter u from coming in

[11:26] Nefertiti Nefarious: Cytherea Eagle: The ClockTower project is over. YOu might be personally banned,but the ban-ball is gone

[11:26] ROBO Marx: same thing ban lines do

[11:26] Fontte Newbold: I would say land for sale should disable all ban attempts, including throttling llTeleportAvatarHome, push, and rez.

[11:26] Holocluck Henly: re hide banlines: remember land hoggers also use the banlines to crowd you out. again it's alpha textures in your trees and windows

[11:26] Stray Underwood: so now we are told what we can do with land we own?

[11:26] Cytherea Eagle: ty

[11:26] Stray Underwood: who we allow access

[11:26] ThaBiGGDoGG Richez: also forsale land should have no builds on them only for owner that way noobs cant go around rezzing bad scripts all over the grid and have them run 24-7

[11:26] ROBO Marx: yep SU

[11:26] IntLibber Brautigan: Fontte, that is not good for estate sims

[11:27] ROBO Marx: we dont own it just pay for it

[11:27] Qie Niangao: we've all always been told that

[11:27] Bloodfrom Inglewood: Honestly, all we are doing is ranting because in the end. Linden Lab and the biggest corporations get teh say

[11:27] ROBO Marx: yep

[11:27] Fontte Newbold: My personal opinion is, given the lack of adequate privacy controls on anything *but* estates, ban lines don't do a whole lot in 95% of all cases.

[11:27] Fontte Newbold: But that's just an opin. :p

[11:27] Ciaran Laval: Banlines are a pain I wish we could at least turn off the visibility ourselves

[11:27] Bloodfrom Inglewood: It's that simple. I know I am rather militant, but I am not stupid. I am an amiernca. I know how americans minds think. Our word means nothing untill we are billioniares.

[11:28] Holocluck Henly: what I wish we had was restrict spatialized sound to this parcel checked as a default. too many people buy land and unwittingly plague their neighbors with object sounds. let someone who knows enough turn it off when they join lands

[11:28] Erie Runningbear: Agreed Ciaran

[11:28] Fontte Newbold: I would hope that that system is rethought from its foundation and redesigned to be more useful.

[11:28] Stray Underwood: This is a free speech enviroment right?

[11:28] Kara Spengler: true, ever try explaining to someone with a skybox that their land-based banlines do them no good at all?

[11:28] Ewan Mureaux: america!=the world

[11:28] ThaBiGGDoGG Richez: it is till you mention twiny's

[11:28] ThaBiGGDoGG Richez: *twinky's

[11:28] Nefertiti Nefarious: Stray ... no, this is Linden Labs. YOu want free speech, buy your own srevers.

[11:28] Erie Runningbear: What would be even nicer is an option to make it so your parcel doesn't have to accept sound from surrounding parcels

[11:28] IntLibber Brautigan: You are darn right America != The world, and thank god for that

[11:28] Talarus Luan: Banlines visually don't bother me; I don't see them unless I am right on top of them

[11:29] Bloodfrom Inglewood: We must be honest with ourselves. In the end Linden Lab needs to pay bills and so do we. Jack probably has a family wife and kids. This game is not an easy life. You can't make moeny off her I think you won't struggle like in real life.

[11:29] Holocluck Henly: free speech does not include harassment defamation and abuse. that's all. someone at another office hour a few weeks back felt they exercised their right to verbally abuse women

[11:29] Fontte Newbold: But IntLibber, America *is* the world. Haven't you been to the South? :p

[11:29] Rem Nightfire: topic?

[11:29] Bloodfrom Inglewood: You have to accept that fact, that his virtual world is a supermarket and the mangers get the final say, and if you don't liek it they just ask you to leave

[11:29] Talarus Luan: I'm still waiting on answer to my questions 15 minutes ago.

[11:29] ThaBiGGDoGG Richez: will there be a SL bailout plan to help residents

'''[11:29] Jack Linden: :) so, does anyone have a question, maybe something unrelated? :)

[11:30] IntLibber Brautigan: Likewise to my questions

[11:30] Holocluck Henly: the point is this ISNT a freespace it IS privately run. Linden is THE WORLD

[11:30] Bloodfrom Inglewood: Talarus you won't get the answer. You are not corp CEO.

[11:30] Fontte Newbold: I think some questions got lost in the melee.

[11:30] Talarus Luan: Darn :-/

[11:30] Drongle McMahon: Re banlines : http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-1448

[11:30] Stray Underwood: It seems like an attempt to do damage to current land owners, so they say screw it and leave giving LL back its land. Is all of this just an attempt to get rid of people turning profits, because LL now wants these profits for them self?

[11:30] JayT Axel: you american belise so much that you are the center of the world, get out of you state first and then you'll see how big the world is. we are not here to talk about america or what ever, we are here to talk about the future of our business here.

'''[11:30] Jack Linden: an SL bailout plan?

[11:30] Chaos Mohr: In world land search is screwed as it is due to bugs, and atm is optimized to allow bots and altered clients the most advantage hence the current market situation where there is a nice chunk of available land right now below Linden auction start prices - any comment on that Jack?

[11:30] Bloodfrom Inglewood: I bet if I was IBM. I would get my way.

[11:30] Ciaran Laval: Jack reset Elysian Isle I can't get in to see Terry pratchett!

[11:30] Bloodfrom Inglewood: We need no bailout plan.

[11:30] ThaBiGGDoGG Richez: yea kind of like a 700 billion L$ to help residents

[11:30] Firedog Lorefield: holy smokes....how do you get anything accomplished here?

'''[11:30] Jack Linden: Stray, absolutely not.

[11:30] Bloodfrom Inglewood: The people haven't a problem. Spam hasn't been stopped. Never will be.

[11:30] Ewan Mureaux: unrelated: Jack why is it so har to give you guys money? I want to pay for an alts premium membership with my positive balance on this account but I cant

[11:30] Nefertiti Nefarious: ELECTION ISSUES: I have AR'ed a coupleof huge political signs ... 40M tallm floating and rotating. Are they exempt,or just another sign?

[11:30] ThaBiGGDoGG Richez: my profits are down now that the sl ecomony has tanked

[11:30] Doug Pau: I have a question about legitmate network advertising. How do businesses get approved to have locations in over 50sims. I asked through Live Chat and ticket submit, and no one could help me.

[11:30] ROBO Marx: good point SU how bout an answer on that

[11:30] Ewan Mureaux: hard*

[11:31] Stray Underwood: Well Jack that is the idea alot of business owners are getting

[11:31] Bloodfrom Inglewood: Libsecondlife is a tool of destruction. Someone can add thmselves to your friends list. Other have liden friends that erase accoutns. I am not trying to use propaganda

[11:31] Holocluck Henly: The problem with too many people "turning profits" is they feel they have more rights than people here for the experience. sorry if I dont regard most of you types with respect after my experiences.

[11:31] IntLibber Brautigan: lol sure Jack, I'll get in line for 700 billion L$ to bail me out of my investments that have been destroyed by ranting socialists and predatory land dumpers

[11:31] Bloodfrom Inglewood: I seen it happen time and time again

[11:31] Stray Underwood: the vibe of you have made enough profit now leave

[11:31] Stray Underwood: thats how it looks

[11:31] Bloodfrom Inglewood: Again no disrespect toy uo jack or your work

[11:31] ThaBiGGDoGG Richez: the 300L$ per week just is enough anymore

[11:31] Talarus Luan: I wanted to know what timeframe we are looking at, in loose terms, for the implementation of the rest of the mainland "cleanup" plan, noting that while LL is "thinking about it", more land is being cut and strategically placed every day until it does.

[11:31] Cory Toll: Yes, i'd like to know about the legit network advertising too

[11:31] ThaBiGGDoGG Richez: *isnt

'''[11:31] Jack Linden: Nefertiti, we'd have to look at those before we can really make a call

[11:32] Bloodfrom Inglewood: How about the people elect government officals?

[11:32] Talarus Luan: Weeks, Months, Years, what?

[11:32] ROBO Marx: it over TL

[11:32] ROBO Marx: remeber u said u won

[11:32] Cytherea Eagle: Jack, you need to update the new rules for adverts...I understand that floating text is disallowed but it does not say so on your blog.

'''[11:32] Jack Linden checks his pockets for spare L$billions

[11:32] Bloodfrom Inglewood: Representives.

[11:32] Fontte Newbold: In a reactive frame, isn't that an iterative process, Tal?

[11:32] Holocluck Henly: it pays for my uploads re 300L - i dont pay rent and Linden doesnt charge rent. you want fancy bling for that 300?

[11:32] Bloodfrom Inglewood: I don't buy bling.

[11:33] Holocluck Henly: thats a lotta fishbait LOL

[11:33] Bloodfrom Inglewood: But thanks for the assuming your sterotype is very...well nvm

[11:33] AfroduckFromPC Brim: Bling bling

[11:33] Fontte Newbold: Cytherea has a point on consistency. ^

[11:33] Cytherea Eagle: also, I see tons of these tiny fountains that have particles and are NOT phantom that advertise a group. Will this trash be cleaned up?

[11:33] Stray Underwood: When large numbers of business owners start thinking there is an anti business vibe starting maybe the focus of the issue should not be if you are allowed to ban people from entering your land, or what price people think is fair for selling stuff, but may be the issues are bigger then that, maybe LL should look at why business people, rl and sl are not happy.

'''[11:33] Jack Linden: Talarus.. i want to look at, specifically, camping and land cutting next. both are problems. it would be good to get posts about those out before the end of october

[11:33] IntLibber Brautigan: Why is floating text disallowed on adverts?

[11:33] Fontte Newbold: Consistency of reporting these new plans and within the process is required here.

'''[11:33] Jack Linden: so that's the aim

[11:33] Holocluck Henly: I dont know i havent seen your av - i have the camera in one position

[11:33] Ewan Mureaux: The point I was trying to make Jack was that I wish you treated us per person and not per avatar. I have this joke where I can have a 5/10k USD trading limit on several accounts but can just pay for one with the other

[11:33] Bloodfrom Inglewood: hmm ok

[11:33] Firedog Lorefield: need to stop land extortion from the likes of robo

[11:34] ROBO Marx: camping

[11:34] Firedog Lorefield: that would be a big help sewing land back together

'''[11:34] Jack Linden: Ewan: understood

[11:34] ROBO Marx: whats bad about camping now!! thats a new 1

[11:34] Rem Nightfire: sounds good jack

[11:34] Bloodfrom Inglewood: Int I must go to a social event, but please update the ACE group on what goes on here please

[11:34] Stray Underwood: firedog that is a personal attack

[11:34] Ciaran Laval: The issue of phnatom ads is a fair one I've seen some that aren't phantom remain

[11:34] Talarus Luan: OK, how about extortion and harassment with land?

[11:34] IntLibber Brautigan: ok Blood

[11:34] Bloodfrom Inglewood: Thank you all for your time you all hae a nice day

[11:34] Bloodfrom Inglewood: :-D

'''[11:34] Jack Linden: Firedog.. please keep from being personal.

[11:34] Firedog Lorefield: its rampant

[11:34] Talarus Luan: Because I keep ARing it, but it doesn't seem to be on the agenda for cleanup.

[11:34] Firedog Lorefield: ok

[11:34] Holocluck Henly: ah ok now i see bloodfrom

[11:34] Bloodfrom Inglewood: As for you jack, nice hat

[11:34] ROBO Marx: how a bout dragon tears

[11:35] Doug Pau: One of my alternate accounts was frozen and a networked advertising billboard that was 6m tall attatched to the ground was returned to me. No one could clarify why it was returned and my account was unfrozen. I was under the impression networked advertising was okay as long as we followed the rules. Through ticket support all I was told was to read the Blog ToS update again. :/

[11:35] Holocluck Henly shrugs

'''[11:35] Jack Linden: hehe Bloodfrom

[11:35] Holocluck Henly: still dotn see why 300 isnt enough

[11:35] Holocluck Henly: was it moving or grlowing Doug?

[11:35] IntLibber Brautigan: yes Jack I've gotten many reports of the g-team violating the new policy and punishing people who are sticking to the rules

[11:35] Dytska Vieria: Jack, with the recent viewer update in the RC series- VWR-9351: Incorrect sort order is displayed in results of Land Search The Auction search in the in world search cannot be sorted buy Auction ID # anymore.

[11:35] ROBO Marx: yes violations should be explained in detail

[11:36] Chaos Mohr reminds Jack of a suggestion a few weeks ago to have another concierge Linden attend these meetings so that questions can be que'd for answers as trying to follow all the chat is next to impossible

'''[11:36] Jack Linden: Doug.. the limit is not per account, so perhaps that was an issue. hard to know without looking in detail. you can always file an Abuse Appeal ticket

[11:36] Cytherea Eagle: I had to go to live chat to clarify some things before I built my new boards...the rules are not complete and in some places too vague

[11:36] Holocluck Henly: chaos good idea LOL

'''[11:36] Jack Linden: Chaos, you'r absolutely right. i need to do that hehe.

[11:36] Fontte Newbold: I also think, re abuses of "view" and extortion, that these things are more difficult to quantify than land cutting or camping rates. But -- that we still need an "ignore parcel" feature in the viewer to just shut off render on what we don't want to see.

[11:36] Nefertiti Nefarious: IntLibber ... perhapsif those persons toldJACK and not you, spomething could be done. As is it, it's hearsay.

'''[11:36] Jack Linden: people tend to direct IM me a lot at these meetings too.

[11:36] Talarus Luan: I wait until later. :)

[11:36] IntLibber Brautigan: they've tried to tell Jack and others at the lab but they get ignored

[11:37] Firedog Lorefield: makes note....dont im jack

[11:37] Doug Pau: Jack, on a different note, do you know if those "survey machines" are considered network advertising if we have those in more than one sim?

[11:37] Holocluck Henly: usually Lindens' Ims are overloaded.

'''[11:37] Jack Linden: intlibber, if you have examples of GTeam overstepping, by all means notecard those to me.

[11:37] Arawn Spitteler: Sometimes, when I run a class, I'll go so far as to set busy

[11:37] IntLibber Brautigan: ok Jack

[11:37] Frank Essel: jack i have a question concerning estates, it has been said certain estate owners or maybe all have the ability to put a sim in ap ersons name and be the payee as well, is this ppossible and if so how is it done?

'''[11:37] Jack Linden: we have been reviewing the decisions though, so far we've been very consistent as a whole

[11:37] Cytherea Eagle: the moles overstep alot

[11:37] Bart Heart: The Name Tizzers thats one way

[11:38] Willow Halfpint: Theres not enough in-world linden estates

[11:38] Willow Halfpint: only dita keira and, Spike are in-world

'''[11:38] Jack Linden: Frank: that has always been a feature of islands. to nominate a different Owner than Payor

'''[11:38] Jack Linden: as far as we are concerned the true owner is the payor as they get billed

[11:38] Frank Essel: is it done thru support portal submit ticket?

[11:39] Willow Halfpint: i see people here everyday, saying its imposable to find in-world help

'''[11:39] Jack Linden: Frank.. yes

[11:39] Willow Halfpint: i have to fix alot of the proplems and i dont get payed

[11:39] Frank Essel: and is there a cost?

'''[11:39] Jack Linden: if the payor doesn't change, i believe not Frank

[11:39] Frank Essel: thank you jack

[11:40] Cytherea Eagle: Jack, , I see tons of these tiny fountains that have particles and are NOT phantom that advertise a group. Will this trash be cleaned up?

[11:40] Arawn Spitteler suggests using colors, for furniture, rather than textures, as this room is not rezzing

[11:41] Frank Essel: so as Execuitve Estate Director for rich Grainger am i able to submit this support ticket and aask that rich grianger remain payor and have a name submitted as sim owner or is thois only done thru rich's support ticket?

[11:41] Firedog Lorefield: thinks thats the least of the worries

[11:41] Holocluck Henly: you mean those wish fountains on sale land?

[11:41] Stray Underwood: All the topics here tend to show a future where the long time residents move away from mainland and only new accounts will be on the mainland, the people that dont buy land, the people that go for freebies and do not spend. Is the goal of "fixing" these issues to remove long standing business from the mainland?

'''[11:41] Jack Linden: Cytherea - if you think they are causing widespread badness to the Mainland, then please AR them and we'll look

[11:41] Willow Halfpint: all im trying to say is i have aplyed to work in linden estates and i do, reguar, and theres no staff in-world to help people, its not fair on me, cos im not a linden

[11:41] Holocluck Henly: and as usual their trickling is not restricted to the parcel

[11:41] Cytherea Eagle: NO, I feel what is good and just for one is good and just for the other.

[11:41] Holocluck Henly: i coouldnt live near one of those i'd have t leave the room constantly lol

[11:42] Willow Halfpint: i love to help be, im over run

[11:42] Anja Drevnerussky: I'd like to know why camping is a topic on your agenda

[11:42] Willow Halfpint: but*

'''[11:42] Jack Linden: Stray.. actually.. part of the huge effort going into the Mainland is to make it *the* most attractive place to live inworld. we've alot to do, but old or new residents, i would hope they will all see this in time

[11:42] Rem Nightfire: its so much better already jack

[11:42] Fontte Newbold: How are you scaling enforcement out to cover the volume of ARs and trouble areas?

[11:42] Talarus Luan: I hope so, too, assuming there is anyone left around to see it by the time it gets done, Jack.

[11:43] Stray Underwood: but telling people what to do with their land, what to sell at and all of the tpocis here dont make it business friendly

[11:43] Nefertiti Nefarious: Those littlefountains woud not be a problem IF sound were by defaultrestricted to the parcels. But they are annoying!

[11:43] Qie Niangao: Jack, I know Support is trying very hard (not quite so sure about Governance, but Concierge has been doing wonders)

[11:43] Stray Underwood: mainland has a anti business feel growing

[11:43] Arawn Spitteler wonders if he might be sitting on everybody

'''[11:43] Jack Linden: Anja.. because with camping we have a situation where one resident uses far more of the regions resource than their land ownership warrants. .causing people that own land in the region to be unable to go to their home

[11:43] Fontte Newbold: Because once you get into the business of restricting content, it's the dark path that never ends. ;)

[11:43] Fontte Newbold: (Though we started that with DMCAs)

[11:43] Ewan Mureaux: mainland business has got a lot better since the new restrictions came in

[11:43] Cytherea Eagle: I agree. I see the difference. I am glad of the new rules but feel that they should apply to everyone, not just the few.

[11:43] Holocluck Henly: I can tell you one thing from my last experiece with being pushed off land. the people who do this expect this to be the trash and their idea is "if you want land where no one deliberately blocks your view, go get an island" when they probably should since they cannot coexist with neighbors and have to overrun them

[11:43] Nefertiti Nefarious: Stray- I rent in a sim FULL of businesses.

[11:44] Willow Halfpint: bottom line from me, Plz hire some more In-world linden helpers, e.g me would be nice

[11:44] Holocluck Henly: except mainland is where you DO have neighbors and coexist

'''[11:44] Jack Linden: Fontte, yes.. which is why we tread so very carefully

[11:44] Cytherea Eagle: I sorry..

[11:44] Cytherea Eagle: I made a big mistake with my ad boards and for that I am I'm Sorry! to the SL public.

[11:44] Stray Underwood: so we will have tight advertising policy and no camping... may people will just find us someday?

[11:44] Firedog Lorefield: i havent even started on the DCMA's yet....i have the highest ranked neon site on google...my works are all over sl ....

[11:44] IntLibber Brautigan: Jack I have to say the way you are going about "improving" the mainland is going to make it a suburban hell hole of residential sims and all the businesses will leave the mainland due to harassment and extortion schemes by ranters.

[11:44] Fontte Newbold: Cytherea does, again, have a point on clarity and consistency, though throwing the baby out with the bathwater is obviously NOT the goal.

[11:44] Firedog Lorefield: and yet i get nothing for it

'''[11:44] Jack Linden: hehe noted Willow

[11:44] Willow Halfpint: check my picks im no Joke

[11:45] Fontte Newbold: Which is to say, I don't think anyone here wants *all* advertising media to go away, just the most parasitic forms that pray on others' land and rights to use that land.

[11:45] Willow Halfpint: im deadly sirus about helping people and have linked with many lindens to give people i help more than just a URL

[11:45] Dytska Vieria: If that is hell, Int, I'll take it.

[11:45] Bushido Contepomi: Jack: Is it considered ligitimate business practice if a group owned by an unpaid alt is in posession of a stratagically placed overpriced micro parcel?

[11:45] ROBO Marx: if any one stays in the ML Int.

[11:45] Cytherea Eagle: I sorry..

[11:45] Cytherea Eagle: I see the beauty once again that I did when Cyth was born. I am truly I'm Sorry! to all I have cause undue issue for.

[11:45] Doug Pau: Jack, lets say I got a ton of roadside plots. 400sq+, and placed down gas stations, diners, bars, etc. to help enhance the roadside appearance, and to help pay tier I have a networked advertisement billboard connected to the sign for the place, like a gas station sign for example. Would that be allowed, and would that be something that would allow me to go beyond a presence 50 sims?

'''[11:45] Jack Linden: Intlibber, I don't agree. I suspect that when we have commercial zoning we will see incredible opportunities for businesses

[11:45] Holocluck Henly: Intlibber if you are referring to people like me - people who consider this their downtime, and if i make something then nice i have my uploads covered or something... but make my land fun and visitable and DO coexist with my new neighbors, then hey call me whatever you want.

[11:46] Holocluck Henly: and call the mainland whatever you want

[11:46] Willow Halfpint: for E.g philip linden just loged off :-p

'''[11:46] Jack Linden: Bushido.. i can't comment on individual cases mid-office hour.. as i haven't looked. but please AR if you feel there is an abuse

[11:46] ROBO Marx: commercial zoning

[11:46] Bart Heart: Yea Willow but Zee Linden is still on and he counts the beans

[11:46] Bushido Contepomi: Is this Alt abuse Ar (able)

[11:46] Fontte Newbold: Cytherea, I may dislike your advertising billboards, but you do have a relevant point on visibility and consistency of process. So do continue. :)

[11:46] IntLibber Brautigan: No Bushido

[11:46] ROBO Marx: why isnt that started already so businesses now if their place is in violation already

[11:47] Willow Halfpint: theres alot of lindens online

[11:47] Willow Halfpint: but jacks here alone

[11:47] ROBO Marx: is that going to be sprung upon us...

'''[11:47] Jack Linden: Doug.. the 50 rule would still stand. however, there will always be edge cases and we will judge those on a per case basis to be as fair as we can

[11:47] Willow Halfpint: note make more help IN-WORLD

[11:47] Neptune Shelman: Is cutting plots for the sole purpose of selling them later at an extortionate price going to carry on being accepted

[11:47] IntLibber Brautigan: alt abuse is when you log onto alt accounts to threaten legitimate busienss people in order to avoid accountability for your terrorism

[11:47] Willow Halfpint: im asked crazy questions everyday

[11:47] Cytherea Eagle: Fontte, thank you, all my boards are gone from the grid. I am building new ones that meet and exceed the new rules.

[11:47] Willow Halfpint: that would help LL no end

[11:48] Stray Underwood: If this reworking of mainland is considered good by the loudest people, will estates be reworked next?

[11:48] Arawn Spitteler notes need for a thread parsing tool, in chat, now that he can disstinguish furniture from avatars.

[11:48] Fontte Newbold: IntLibber, calling people that don't agree with your statements "terrorists" isn't helping. :p

[11:48] Holocluck Henly: as i've posted i think the big problem re zoning are these malls. they are definitely a clash most of the time. one almost went up where I live now and it would have killed the cultural feel of an old region. they're almost tyrannical sometimes. these sure could use zoning

[11:48] Willow Halfpint: like where to place servers for, incresses in population on $

'''[11:48] Jack Linden: Neptune: we will look at land cutting soon. we know it's a problem

[11:48] Neptune Shelman: thankyou

'''[11:48] Jack Linden: Stray - estates are very different. the Mainland is *our* estate

[11:48] Frank Essel: with the zoning of mainland i expect to see a ton of new custoemrs i have never had before at my office

[11:49] Rich Grainger: i would like to support this idea, mainland has been a mess for some time. perhaps is just what we need to keep attracting new people

[11:49] Bushido Contepomi: Jack, were you able to see my question? (about an unpaying resident ALT) Owning Land for the Use of Extortion

[11:49] Fontte Newbold: Is there any work being done by the land team on possible Linden-run advertising programs?

[11:49] Stray Underwood: that was not a yes or no lol

[11:49] ROBO Marx: how bout zoning ajck

[11:49] Holocluck Henly: mom n pop places are certainly not the problem. my own home land has a gallery and a couple things but they all blend in... its not the same as plopping a monstrosity cog building in the middle of homes and trees

[11:49] Fontte Newbold: To offer the people that honestly do want to advertise the space to do so?

[11:49] Fontte Newbold: Say, Busy Ben's vehicle lot.

[11:49] ROBO Marx: Will OLD sims be commercially zoned???

[11:49] Cytherea Eagle: Jack, I had several 2m tall tiny for sale signs that meet all new rules returned to me but I still see a ton of for sale boards, signs, cubes and tiles that violate the new rules. Care to comment on what will happen to those?

[11:49] IntLibber Brautigan: I am proud to say that my private estates have never had adfarming problems and we've never needed zoning against them or price controls to do it

[11:49] Willow Halfpint: it just upsets me that people like myself with the knolage and skills to help carnt even be a mentor, in SL, and its imposable to get in-world help and i apply to work with LL, every 3 months like clock work

'''[11:50] Jack Linden: Bushido.. yes. but as i said you'd need to AR it, i can't answer such specific questions without any details

[11:50] IntLibber Brautigan: and we do not seize land either

[11:50] Fontte Newbold: IntLibber: That's because you have a second layer of abstraction that scales faster than Linden enforcement.

[11:50] ROBO Marx: How about mainland JACk

[11:50] Fontte Newbold: Namely: resident landowners.

[11:50] IntLibber Brautigan: what does that mean Fontte?

[11:50] Holocluck Henly: AR any that are violations cynthea. its a big mainland and no doubt they havent been caught by thestaff

[11:50] Cytherea Eagle: it looks so much better already

[11:50] Kara Spengler: Cytherea: oh, you mean the 5 'for sale' signs on the 80 m2 plot?

[11:50] Fontte Newbold: It means the market

[11:50] Fontte Newbold: It means the market for private estates works better because it's designed better from the start, in terms of scalability.

[11:50] Nefertiti Nefarious: Cytherea ... file an AR on the signs you think are in violation. Jack can'tknow where they are, but you do.

[11:50] ROBO Marx: Will it be rezoned commercially

[11:50] Stray Underwood: Willow now is not the time for job hunting with LL

[11:50] Cytherea Eagle: I had forgotten it is not just about the Ls

[11:50] Willow Halfpint: Have you ever met a linden that in there profile it tells you what problems they deal with????????

[11:51] Holocluck Henly: hey i didnt even know i lived near a water view in my new place. but by oct 2 there it was

[11:51] Fontte Newbold: The question then is what to do about the mainland that was already parcelled off and sold under Linden mandate.

'''[11:51] Jack Linden: Robo.. whether we allow old regions to Opt in to zoning hasn't been decided. But we're very unlikely to enforce it

[11:51] Fontte Newbold: This is the basic assumption of why we're here.

'''[11:51] Jack Linden: That wouldn't seem fair

[11:51] Bushido Contepomi: The Group Owned By RN Footman for Example

[11:51] Kara Spengler: Cytherea: the 5 were down to 2 today, so I assume you had 3 spinning signs in your lost&found last night

[11:51] Willow Halfpint: i dont see why not. i Do there job every day for free

[11:51] Holocluck Henly: i cant envy the balance you have to keep between land aesthetics and those which cross over into conflicts

[11:51] ROBO Marx: OK TY jack

[11:52] Stray Underwood: Willow speak with human resources not jack

[11:52] Holocluck Henly: Willow I help new people when i can. I dont need a tag to do it

[11:52] Fontte Newbold: I still think the most utility to this problem would be gained through visibility of process and client-side ignore controls.

[11:52] IntLibber Brautigan: if aesthetics were an AR offense 90% of the mainland residents would be permbanned

[11:52] Fontte Newbold: But that's just me.

[11:52] Willow Halfpint: try and get hold of one?

'''[11:52] Jack Linden: Yes Willow. You have to go through the hire process.

[11:52] Erie Runningbear: And I've never had a problem finding a linden if needed, it's a huge list

[11:52] Holocluck Henly: I do it because I want them to get a good start not for any illusory glor

[11:52] Willow Halfpint: char linden declines notecards

[11:52] Holocluck Henly: y

[11:52] Fontte Newbold: If you don't like it, highlight -> ignore parcel, done.

[11:52] Neptune Shelman: that b'st*rd is the one who has been bothering me to bushido

[11:52] Stray Underwood: Linden labs is an rl company, pick up the phone

[11:53] Fontte Newbold: It's not like I complain that the rest of the world wide web is ad-infested. I block the stuff I don't want to see.

[11:53] Willow Halfpint: thats a fair point, thanks

[11:53] Holocluck Henly: actually those damn lucky chairs have been a problem, and i couldnt mute one the other day.

[11:53] Frank Essel: go online and submit and paplication thru the support portal for job listings

[11:53] Bart Heart: http://lindenlab.hrmdirect.com/employment/openings.php?sort=da&

[11:53] Fontte Newbold: And if I want to earnestly support a site, I donate. :p

[11:53] Holocluck Henly: they scream through the whole region. maybe they should be limited to private estates

'''[11:53] Jack Linden: thanks bart

[11:53] Willow Halfpint: i live on that page

[11:54] Bart Heart: np Jack

'''[11:54] Jack Linden: Willow, bear in mind that we get hundreds of notecards.. especially the better known lindens

[11:54] AfroduckFromPC Brim: Jack, for some time now there's been contention over what constitutes "blocking" someone and when it's harassment, etc. There seem to be no consistent standard and nobody ever seems to have gotten a solid answer.

'''[11:54] Jack Linden: It can be impossible to accept tham all

[11:54] AfroduckFromPC Brim: Banning people from your land when it surrounds part or all of someone's parcel or large picture walls on parcel edges for example. The only reference point we have is not blocking access but with direct teleports you technically always have access. Will these issues ever be clarified or is it to be left entirely to the judgement of the Linden dealing with each situation?

[11:54] IntLibber Brautigan: land owners SHOULD be able to make their parcels immune to scripted chatter and shouts and sounds coming from other parcels

'''[11:54] Jack Linden: *them

[11:54] Holocluck Henly: lol i dont live near san francisco. i could have taken one of the customer service ones in a second. I'm a tier 3 global coordinator for a major corp website. handholding consierge is easy stuff

[11:55] Cytherea Eagle: Kara, I have a lot of land and continue to remove and replace the "for sale" ones...the ad network was my first priority to remove.

[11:55] Willow Halfpint: all im saying im here everyday, i feel stong about helping people even had to learn german to help more people, and dita sits here busy, ( thats fair ) keira is on every so offten and spike is on everyday

[11:55] Erie Runningbear: Wow, Intlibber, I actually agree with you on that

[11:55] Holocluck Henly: Afroduck the date of acquisition would show who is trying to conquer whom right? wouldnt that help a case?

[11:55] Fontte Newbold: IntLibber: I think the problem you're getting at is the fact parcels, as are currently sold, are not the sort of "islands of privacy" as advertised.

'''[11:55] Jack Linden: Afro: I think you'll see us look more at those situations, but it'll always have to be a call we make in each case

[11:55] Fontte Newbold: Which necessitates an entirely different paradigm than the existing.

[11:55] Firedog Lorefield: i am one and a half tier...trying to bring my company's into sl./....havent found the right person to assist me yet

[11:56] Stray Underwood: rules to be determind per case is very bias

[11:56] IntLibber Brautigan: that and that when land is sold, it defaults public building, scripts and object entry ON, which encourages and abets griefing

[11:56] AfroduckFromPC Brim: Alright. Just wanted to get a bit of feedback on the issue

'''[11:56] Jack Linden: Intlibber, yes. being able to stop chatter would be very useful

[11:56] Tyrian Camilo: Indeed, defaulting to openness is bad, should be passed on, aswell autoreturn should be passed on imho

[11:56] Qie Niangao: actually, llShout() should be unable to function on channel 0, and llParcelSay should replace it.

[11:56] AfroduckFromPC Brim: Holocluck: Yeah, that can help but it can have its own problems too.

[11:56] Willow Halfpint: and jack yes there lots of notecards because people dont know what the lindens jobs aare thats why torley gets asked everything

[11:56] Holocluck Henly: half a year and i knew whatsername was trying to crowd me out. it gets old fast doesnt it

[11:56] IntLibber Brautigan: if LL fixed these problems with parcel settings and control a lot of the public concerns would be alleviated

[11:57] Bart Heart: We could alwyas go back to when it cost 10L$ to rez an object, that would deter grifers

[11:57] Holocluck Henly: well the amount of land when looked at chronologically shows they are using the land as a weapon I think.

'''[11:57] Jack Linden: ironically, i have 2 large adverts and a non stop chattering vendor beside my alts parcel.

[11:57] Holocluck Henly: AR them

[11:57] Lou Calamari: How about traffic?

[11:57] Bushido Contepomi: Is The Group PlandZ Violating TOS by Having Stategically Place Over Priced Micro Parcels, and Using an ALT as The Fall Guy (Who Will Not Going to Loose Any thing if Banned)?

[11:57] Fontte Newbold: IntLibber: A lot of that, by the way, dates back until I signed on in 2004. The ramping up of private interests in direct proportion to the popularity of Second Life highlights how wrong those original assumptions, were.

[11:57] Doug Pau: Jack, would any network advertiser ever be allowed to go over the 50 sim presence rule? The wording on the ToS made it seem like they could if they followed the ToS and got permission, but now it seems like the exception wasn't added for network advertisers.

[11:57] Dytska Vieria: Good question, Bushido.

'''[11:57] Jack Linden: Willow.. most lindens explain what they do in their profile don't they?

[11:58] Neptune Shelman: you should ar them jack

[11:58] Willow Halfpint: errrrrrrrrr. hell no

[11:58] Willow Halfpint: mine says more than theres

[11:58] Qie Niangao: The blog post said any exceptions to the 50 limite would be *very* rare.

[11:58] Holocluck Henly: Doug why dont you rent space on someone's region sized business?

[11:58] Neptune Shelman: HE already cheated TOS in the past with ban lines

[11:58] Fontte Newbold: Jack: How many layers of abstraction are existing abuse policies allowed to go through before they become "legitimate" or "Linden legal?"

[11:58] ROBO Marx: Im tellin

[11:58] Nefertiti Nefarious: Willow ... wearing a floaty text sign "Willow Linden" might not be helping your case.

[11:58] AfroduckFromPC Brim: Lol

'''[11:58] Jack Linden: Bushido.. alt abuse is against the ToS. And deliberate misleading of buyers we would also not accept

[11:59] Willow Halfpint: may as well be

[11:59] Tyrian Camilo: Doug Pau asked very good question! I'm one of those waiting Harry to decide.

[11:59] Fontte Newbold: For example, those "skill game" Linden legal casino things are laughable.

[11:59] IntLibber Brautigan: Jack I tried to apply for permission on the 50+ rule and was told your not making any exceptions, what is going on with this?

[11:59] Bushido Contepomi: Thanks Jack

[11:59] Qie Niangao: *Harry* to decide??

[11:59] Willow Halfpint: i can do what linden estates do without the tools

[11:59] Ewan Mureaux: matching two random numbers is a skill you know

[11:59] Doug Pau: Holo, I have adspace on lots of full sim islands, I was wanting to move more aggressively on the mainland.

[11:59] IntLibber Brautigan: oh god

[11:59] Willow Halfpint: i do it everday

[11:59] Cory Toll: he means harry linden

'''[11:59] Jack Linden: Fontte.. not sure i understand your question

[11:59] Fontte Newbold: Ditto, the 50 rule: I can forsee people creating systems of systems that only display 50 ads at any single point of time.

[11:59] IntLibber Brautigan: Harry, *face palms*

[11:59] Tyrian Camilo: Like IntLibber, that was the initial answer aswell, i kept on asking and Harry promised to think about it

[11:59] Qie Niangao: but harry runs governance, not concierge?

'''[11:59] Jack Linden: Intlibber.. we are not making any exceptions to the 50 rule at this time.

[11:59] Stray Underwood: Is LL loking at these issues to better sl or stop the bitching, because the economic backlash of all of this stuff will not help LL in the end.

[11:59] Fontte Newbold: The question is, in the spirit of the rule, how far does the Land Team take considerations of content?

[12:00] Doug Pau: Thanks Jack for clearing that up

[12:00] Willow Halfpint: most people just need some fast advice, not 2 months wait for help

'''[12:00] Jack Linden: Once we have the Mainland ad issue under control, we will review that, but that will be some time away

[12:00] Tyrian Camilo: Fontte: having only 50 ads displayed isn't the prob, installations maximum basicly is the 50, but is trivially circumvented if one wants to

[12:00] ROBO Marx: Stray just pay ur tier, they dont care LOL

[12:00] Willow Halfpint: and its my cat called that :-)

[12:00] Neptune Shelman: Jack in your forum for adfarms part2 there is someone who believes she has a syndicate of advertisers already working

[12:00] Fontte Newbold: Tyrian: That's my point, in basic terms.

[12:01] Neptune Shelman: are you checking the thread still

[12:01] IntLibber Brautigan: Jack what if i were to start a venture where individuals could buy advertising franchises in a larger ad network?

[12:01] Tyrian Camilo: Jack: When will exceptions be made? I'm loosing pure cash here, i did own probably the ONLY ethical advertising network, well still own, land just sits empty and we cannto sell advertising, a lot of business owners are missing a huge chunk of revenues right now

[12:01] Ewan Mureaux: hahahahahhaa

[12:01] IntLibber Brautigan: would the 50 limit apply to me or just to each franchisee?

[12:01] Tyrian Camilo: Jack: That includes RL businesses aswell, one of which just expanded to second sim

[12:01] Timo Daehlie: ethical ?

[12:01] Timo Daehlie: lol

'''[12:01] Jack Linden: Fontte.. that is a hard question to answer. I think the key point is that we note and document everything so that we naturally achieve consistency. but we'll never be able to legislate everything

[12:01] ROBO Marx: yeah see bushy threaten me jack

[12:01] Stray Underwood: Allowing people to buy land, then telling them they cant do what ever they want on it also will damage peoples urge to buy mainland

[12:01] ROBO Marx: LOL

[12:01] Fontte Newbold: Is there any chance some of that can be pawned off to residents?

[12:01] ROBO Marx: computer thugs

[12:01] Willow Halfpint: also if someone is banned you can get back by changing I.P address

[12:01] Willow Halfpint: ????????

[12:02] Willow Halfpint: you need to fix that

[12:02] Fontte Newbold: For example: Pass on screenshots to the resident base as a whole similar to FoldIt.com, and have them offer an opinion of pass/fail on a given metric.

[12:02] Tyrian Camilo: Timo: You used to be supportive of my cause, until you figured out that i can actually make money with it. What's up with thaT? We used to be friends aswell, and help each other out. Enough of your slander

[12:02] Fontte Newbold: Would give you a great deal more information than you have now.

[12:02] IntLibber Brautigan: Jack Please read up to my questions

[12:02] Holocluck Henly: depends on the type of people who want to do contrary things with their land. you think their average new user sees land as a prospect to trash it up? no they want to make somethign better than they have in RL to keep the illusion.

[12:02] Cytherea Eagle: I sorry..

[12:02] Cytherea Eagle: To the SL public. If you see any signage of mine that violates ToS/ToC and or the new rules, please feel free to IM me and I will remove asap. Also, all of my nasty boards are gone. If I missed one or two I am I'm Sorry! and will come asap to remove if you IM me about it. I will also swap land and no cost with residence. Once again SL residence. I am sorry for ruining our "second home". If you need me for anything please feel free to IM me or drop a NC. Thank you for listening to this long speach. ;)

[12:02] Fontte Newbold: And let you make the final determination.

'''[12:02] Jack Linden: I think my eyes are about to explode. :)

'''[12:02] Jack Linden: so much text

[12:02] Holocluck Henly: lol

[12:02] Firedog Lorefield: ya think?

[12:03] Stray Underwood: In the end this is not a democrocy, we have no real say, so does LL care about the business version, or the complainers version, or do they already have their own plans?

'''[12:03] Jack Linden: guys, my hour is up. I have to run to my next meeting.

[12:03] Fontte Newbold: I can see we've already made you old before your time. :)

[12:03] Tyrian Camilo: Timo: Or maybe you just haven't realized that everything has a value determined by what the possible buyer is willing to pay? (You see, all my parcels are EMPTY, so you cannot pull that extortion default argument either)

[12:03] Lou Calamari: Wondering if there are going to be changes in traffic like maybe make it weekly instead of daily? i own a club that does 6 events per day 7 days a week and it jumps around like crazy

[12:03] Doug Pau: Jack, Ill be seeing you soon.

[12:03] Timo Daehlie: save your time and words TC ;)

'''[12:03] Jack Linden: as always, thank you so much for all the feedback and passion.

[12:03] Holocluck Henly: Jack thanks it's been an honor. Thanks for all the work going into this project

[12:03] Ewan Mureaux: see ya jack!

[12:03] Kara Spengler: that is okay Cytherea, we will just let you know by ARing any of your ads, ll will be happy to let you know we found one :)

[12:03] Nefertiti Nefarious: Thanks Jack

[12:03] Cory Toll: Bye jack! i love you!

[12:03] Cytherea Eagle: ty Jack

[12:03] Holocluck Henly: the silent majority is no doubt grateful

[12:03] Rem Nightfire: bye jack, thanks for your great work

'''[12:03] Jack Linden goes pink

[12:03] IntLibber Brautigan: Ok all ad network operators, please meet with me in 10 minutes in Venture Square

'''[12:03] Jack Linden: thanks!
[[Category:Jack Linden Office Hours]]

User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2008-10-9

2009-04-30T20:25:40Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2008-10-9 moved to User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2008-10-9: Refactor

#REDIRECT [[User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2008-10-9]]

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2008-10-09

2009-04-30T20:25:40Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2008-10-9 moved to User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2008-10-9: Refactor

User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2008-10-23

2009-04-30T20:24:43Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2008-10-23 moved to User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2008-10-23: Refactor

#REDIRECT [[User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2008-10-23]]

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2008-10-23

2009-04-30T20:24:43Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: User:Qie Niangao/Jack Linden Office Hour Transcript/2008-10-23 moved to User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2008-10-23: Refactor

'''[10:59] Jack Linden: Juko summoned me. :)

[10:59] Juko Tempel: hello Jack :-)

[10:59] Juko Tempel: haha

[10:59] Juko Tempel: I wish

'''[10:59] Jack Linden: hey folks!

[10:59] Herne Diker: hello Jack

[10:59] Talarus Luan: Wish I had that ability. :P

[10:59] Juko Tempel: hehe so do I

[11:00] Talarus Luan: "Summon Jack!"

[11:00] Fontte Newbold: Pres butan, reveive Linden.

[11:00] Fontte Newbold: Receive, too.

[11:00] Juko Tempel: you might want to take that sign down Jack?

[11:00] Talarus Luan: That would be the "easy" button, though.

[11:00] Moon Corrigible: Darn Juko is good!

[11:01] Juko Tempel: haha i feel so powerful

'''[11:01] Jack Linden: :)

[11:01] Juko Tempel: you can run it now if you like though

[11:01] Juko Tempel: lol

'''[11:01] Jack Linden: so how are things? who has something they would like to talk about?

[11:01] Ewan Mureaux: why you said no more mainland then released more

[11:01] Talarus Luan: How's the estate managing gig coming?

[11:02] Juko Tempel: as Ewan said..

'''[11:02] Jack Linden: Ewan: the basic 'no new mainland' through the normal route continues, these city regions are unusual and don't happen regularly

[11:02] Juko Tempel: they still affect mainland though..

[11:03] Timo Daehlie: how many mainland for sale did you discover jack ?

[11:03] Ewan Mureaux: especially when the week preceding prices dropped further and since you released more mainland, back door or not, prices have plumetted

[11:03] Talarus Luan: L$2/sqm for Premium mainland is cheap. Kinda makes the rest of the L$2.5-3.0 stuff look like what it is.. garbage.

'''[11:03] Jack Linden: If Nautilus follows the way Bay City went, it won't have a lasting effect, Bay City had an impact but only briefly

[11:03] Ewan Mureaux: Bay city was dropped when the lowest price was what, 7?

'''[11:03] Jack Linden: Timop.. Nautilus is about 8 regions maximum, of resident land

'''[11:04] Jack Linden: Within 22 or so, Linden owned regions

[11:04] Ewan Mureaux: completely different times now as it has been engineered to make the rest of mainland worthless

[11:04] Timo Daehlie: +10 million more mainland for sale .. would it be more wise to improve that and have some more density over there ?

[11:04] Juko Tempel: and the moles have been working on Nautilus..

[11:04] Talarus Luan: Time will tell, but I am betting there will be a number of 1-bids, and a few no-bids as well.

[11:05] Sarah Nerd: Ty Timo

[11:05] Ewan Mureaux: What is the point in continued efforts to improve and beautify mainland when it has no value, if you pay buttons for something then you have less time for it than something that is worth its value

[11:05] Timo Daehlie: welcome ;)

[11:05] Ewan Mureaux: are you happy to see full sims at 3l/m?

[11:05] Talarus Luan: Hiyas Sarah :)

[11:05] Juko Tempel: are the efforts continuing, for that matter?

'''[11:05] Jack Linden: we will continue to work on the entire mainland, and even during building Nautilus we had more Moles working on other stuff than on that

[11:05] Sarah Nerd: Hey

'''[11:06] Jack Linden: roads, attractions, hubs and so on

[11:06] Ewan Mureaux: or more to the point, LL cant sell something twice so once it has passed on to the first chump/ buyer then it doesnt matter

[11:06] Timo Daehlie: i had an attraction but i was wanred and asked to pull it down

[11:06] Timo Daehlie: cause a 16m2 extortioning plot owner felt it was harasment

[11:06] Timo Daehlie: warned ..

'''[11:06] Jack Linden: not aware of that case Timo

[11:07] Talarus Luan: Not surprised. :)

'''[11:07] Jack Linden: if i need to look into it, notecard me the details

[11:07] Timo Daehlie: Harry was

[11:07] Sarah Nerd: Did I miss when those 31 news sims will make it to market?

[11:07] Ewan Mureaux: was that thje same one that terrorised people with 80m high towers covered in slander?

[11:07] Chaos Mohr: Jack considering that a quite a few mainland auctions are going without any bids, due to the current market glut, I am wondering why their is still a disparity in beginning auction prices between parcels of the same size?

[11:07] Timo Daehlie: well my building is deleted and the land was sold ..

[11:07] Timo Daehlie: i was and am pretty upset about it but then agai who am i ..

[11:07] Avi Arrow: hi sal, and everyone else :>

'''[11:07] Jack Linden: Sarah: the first auctions will start tomorrow

[11:07] Sarah Nerd: Ty

[11:07] Salazar Jack nods

[11:08] Qie Niangao: Well, Ewan, they *can* sell something twice. Speaking of which, Jack, will the opening price per sq.m. be reduced for L$ auctions?

'''[11:08] Jack Linden: Well timo, i'm happy to look into it if you'd like me to. Hard for me to comment on it otherwise.

[11:08] Timo Daehlie: i will ..

'''[11:09] Jack Linden: Qie, for nautilus we're starting at L$2k for 1024m. We may stick with that afterwards, not sure at this point. We have to see how they go

[11:09] Talarus Luan: Would like for you to look into some of my issues, too, when you have time.

[11:09] Sarah Nerd: Are they double prim and unable to subdivide like bay city was?

[11:09] Moon Corrigible gets in line behind Talaurs - hehehe

'''[11:10] Jack Linden: Average Mainland price has dipped slightly, to L$5.8, so we'll watch it closely

'''[11:10] Jack Linden: Yes Sarah

[11:10] Ewan Mureaux: jack can we get a mean average and not a median

[11:10] Qie Niangao wishes he could make his land no-subdivide before selling it.

[11:10] Sarah Nerd: List bottom is at 2.4. Thats lower than it was when I started land.

[11:10] Juko Tempel: yes please

[11:10] Ewan Mureaux: because 10,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,1 doesnt make the averagie price 5.8

[11:11] Timo Daehlie: sarah is right .. and even at 2.4 its hard to sell

'''[11:11] Jack Linden: if it was a governance issue, then you should file an Abuse Appeal ticket. those get reviewed and if upheld we would reverse the decision

[11:11] Sarah Nerd: I think Yohan said 38% of the mainland is currently set for sale

[11:11] Talarus Luan: Who was that directed to?

'''[11:11] Jack Linden: that was a Mean average. I can also get you the median

'''[11:12] Jack Linden: (it's a Mean of transactions, *not* of land set for sale which is what you see in search)

[11:12] Tammy Nowotny: hello

[11:12] Juko Tempel: all transactions? that wouldn't be good

[11:12] Juko Tempel: all land?

[11:12] Ewan Mureaux: so the extortion plots help pull that up and make everything rosey

'''[11:13] Jack Linden: no, we discount those at each end of the bell curve

[11:13] Juko Tempel: and transfers between alts..

[11:13] Tammy Nowotny: most land you see for sale is set WAY above the market clearing price

'''[11:13] Jack Linden: it includees buy For Group too, but excludes auctions, gov land, abd various other oddness

'''[11:13] Jack Linden: *and

[11:13] Juko Tempel: aah

[11:13] Sarah Nerd: My stuff in the two's has been sitting all week.

[11:13] Ewan Mureaux: if you look at the real world when you cant sell waterfront for 5 or protected for 3.5 then you get a different picture

[11:14] Juko Tempel: different on different continents too

[11:14] Chaos Mohr: in other words, they discount all the land aquired by landbots which over the past month or so has been well over 40 sims worth

[11:14] Tammy Nowotny: I can't even get the Nnjas to buy

'''[11:14] Jack Linden: yeah, there are many many ways to view the data, and we look at pretty much all of them.

[11:14] Tammy Nowotny: I am not sure if anyone otehr than landbots has been buying... oh and hello everyone :-)

[11:14] Talarus Luan: Hiyas Tammy

'''[11:15] Jack Linden: hi!

[11:15] Ewan Mureaux: so you didnt want to release more land until the average was 6-8 and now a direct consequence of more land being released using your figures has dipped the average below 6

[11:15] Tammy Nowotny: hey talarus

[11:15] Ewan Mureaux: thats a fact yes?

[11:16] Sarah Nerd: I figure the RL economy and lack of new users in sl has been hurting us a lot.

'''[11:16] Jack Linden: No Ewan. this happened pre-announcement of Nautilus.

[11:17] Ewan Mureaux: theres a more convincing argument for not releasing more land there then

'''[11:17] Jack Linden: As I said, we will watch it closely, if it seems to be having an adverse effect we will back it off again.

[11:17] Talarus Luan: That, and people getting frustrated and throwing in the towel.

[11:17] Qie Niangao looks at the floor

[11:18] Juko Tempel: how much land is being abandoned?

[11:18] Ewan Mureaux: I'm not trying to give you a hard time for the sakeof it jack, just when given a straight answer to a direct question for weeks then that answer has caveats and loop holes, it leaves me frustrated

'''[11:18] Jack Linden: abandoned land is down, the number of 16m parcels in general is down too, the amount of land 'owned' on the Mainland is still growing, though not quickly

[11:18] Talarus Luan: Don't feel bad, Qie; you're hardly alone there.

[11:19] Moon Corrigible: Has there been any sort of thought to moderating tier fees - especially on things like private islands - to alleviate the problem of people forfeiting their holdings?

'''[11:19] Jack Linden: Ewan, we don't mean to frustrate, but we are also a business so we have to blance out decisions. And many people really want these areas, they want that choice of experience

[11:19] Moon Corrigible: Oh see I thought forfeitures were up - my misconception

[11:20] Ewan Mureaux: we have the land, why not focus on making it more useful

[11:20] Tammy Nowotny: I noticed you lowered the starting bid on auctions, Jack.

[11:20] Qie Niangao: I can see why abandoned land might be down: just a week or so ago I was picking up abandoned parcels, trying to glue them together.

'''[11:20] Jack Linden: We lowered them for the new area, we haven't decided if that will stick yet

[11:20] Talarus Luan: Yes, well, balancing decisions in favor of people who pay $0.05 in tier per month versus those who pay $125 a month is not exactly what I would call "balanced".

[11:21] Ewan Mureaux: there are abandoned continents, all the sanitised new areas do is cause ghettoisation

[11:21] Chaos Mohr: try 4000 a month in tier Talurus ;)

[11:21] Tammy Nowotny nods

[11:21] Talarus Luan: Oh, I don't doubt that, Chaos.. and probably more

[11:22] Fontte Newbold: Don't forget $25K Enterprise level support.

[11:22] Juko Tempel: Salazar are you typing? too far away maybe? i dont' see your comments?

[11:22] Salazar Jack: Jack, is Linden Lab growing the Grid too fast? Does the speed and expanse of it's growth put a strain in the infrastructure? And is this sudden and unexpected appearance of the island of Nautilus City a symptom of that?

[11:22] Juko Tempel: aah

[11:22] Salazar Jack: I'm just a slow thinker.

[11:22] Tammy Nowotny: it;'s even in old areas... I bought a 512 in Mindulle, a 2006-vintage 1st land sim, for $2k instead iof 2.2k this week

[11:22] Chaos Mohr: there is probably over 10k USD a month worth of tier payers sitting in this room right now

[11:22] Juko Tempel: nah

[11:22] Ewan Mureaux: its the LDPW the public is crying out for content where they have set up home and business, not to uproot to some bnew sim, dumping their land for buttons to end up paying bizarre amounts on new places

[11:22] Talarus Luan: Yup, and we probably represent the views of a lot more than that, too.

'''[11:23] Jack Linden: Salazar, good question and no. There is no 'scaling' element to the expansion if that is what you mean. We just want to give residents more choice about the way they live inworld.

[11:23] Fontte Newbold: Mm. Vocal minorities are fun. :D

[11:23] Tammy Nowotny: (I am down to US$75/month myself)

[11:23] Fontte Newbold: I need to get my stake from the last stakeholder's meetings.

'''[11:23] Jack Linden: And obviously we have to balance that with supply/demand and the current market

'''[11:24] Jack Linden: Nautlius is a drop in the ocean compared to the volume of land traded each month, it just happens to be very visible

[11:24] Talarus Luan: I just want the choice to live without abuse, fraud, and harassment everywhere I go.

[11:24] Salazar Jack: Jack, you mentioned on the Nautilus City wiki page that the regions of Nautilus City were a mystery because even after the Lindens had gridded that area "...we could never teleport there, and nothing ever showed on the map." Are there other areas that the Lindens have tried to grid with similar results? And if so, where are they?

[11:24] Fontte Newbold: More seriously, I'd like to see how the sales of mainland grid and their service implications impact LL's intention to move servers behind other corporate firewalls, like say, IBM.

[11:24] Fontte Newbold: I've always stated that it's not just the land, but also the service that LL provides that keeps things like OpenSim from really catching on.

'''[11:25] Jack Linden: Salazar, not that we know of. Though Magellan's new vehicle got broken in discovering Nautilus so it might be a while until we can explore again hehe

[11:25] Talarus Luan: A lot more than that, Fontte.. OpenSim is "missing" a lot of stuff, still

[11:25] Fontte Newbold: Yeah, I know.

[11:25] Fontte Newbold: I still run one in a VM.

'''[11:25] Jack Linden: Our service metrics have improved a lot through the last 8 months, response times and call times are all down

'''[11:26] Jack Linden: average telephone wait time for concierge customers is under 1 minute

[11:26] Chaos Mohr: I will say that concierge level support has always been excellent

[11:26] Fontte Newbold: Fact is though, if LL intends to remain the market leader in virtual world and land-based solutions, there's going to need to be a reasonable assumption of quality and rollout.

'''[11:26] Jack Linden: and we are still recruiting heavily into support

[11:26] Moon Corrigible: Call times being down is not necesarliy a good thing

[11:26] Fontte Newbold: Or in less buzzspeak:

[11:26] Ewan Mureaux: because more people have been cleared off to OS's and have a more direct contact

[11:26] Fontte Newbold: Give the people what they want.

'''[11:26] Jack Linden: call answer times Moon

'''[11:26] Jack Linden: quicker pickup

[11:27] Tammy Nowotny makes noteof what Jack said :-)

'''[11:27] Jack Linden: :)

[11:27] Ewan Mureaux: negating the need for much lkinden contact

[11:27] Moon Corrigible: Ahhh my bad - sorry

[11:27] Talarus Luan: Just a curiosity, I have heard someone being asked to lower their AR rate, because the *TWO* people handling land abuse ARs are overwhelmed.

'''[11:27] Jack Linden: where did you hear that Talarus

'''[11:27] Jack Linden: ?

[11:27] Fontte Newbold: I don't think OpenSim adoption is all that high. I think most people are still in "wait and see" mode.

[11:27] Timo Daehlie: it is true jack

[11:28] Fontte Newbold: Sans possibly the users at IBM.

[11:28] Ewan Mureaux: OS - open space sorry

'''[11:28] Jack Linden: we don't have a 'land AR team' as such. we have a governance team, which is managing load fine

[11:28] Fontte Newbold: Oh. Okay.

[11:28] Talarus Luan: Came to me from the grapevine.

[11:28] Timo Daehlie: i cant tell the persons name but talarus is right

[11:28] Fontte Newbold: It'd be nice if we had some transparency into what their load looks like.

[11:28] Fontte Newbold: Is the police blotter still up and about?

[11:28] Talarus Luan: yup

[11:29] Moon Corrigible: Wow that just seems like none of our business - lmao

[11:29] Juko Tempel: i must say i had two minor ARs dealt with very efficiently lately

[11:29] Talarus Luan: It's called the "Incident Report" on the support page.

[11:29] Fontte Newbold: Well. The pipeline for support is our business, since it directly impacts the service we see on the ground.

[11:29] Qie Niangao: I gather, then that we should take it that ARs that aren't addressed are being judged valid. Which is kind of what I surmised anyway.

[11:29] Fontte Newbold: Things do seem to have picked up in recent months, separate from the ad ban, too.

[11:30] Qie Niangao: (*not* valid)

[11:30] Talarus Luan: Yeah.. another "transparency" peeve of mine.

[11:30] Talarus Luan: But that's a longtime one.

[11:30] Tammy Nowotny: I got ARed msyelf right after the ad ban --- apparently from a neighbour who sued to be in the small parecel business

[11:30] Talarus Luan: ARs are black holes. You don't know if it got lost, ignored, was valid, etc.

[11:31] Fontte Newbold: Which reminds me. Jack: What is Linden's stance on Ad Farmers that are attempting to get around the ban by offloading the "50" rule directly onto their business associates' accounts?

[11:31] Tammy Nowotny: I had BanLink from the Arbor Project up... those were all quietly deleted, BTW

'''[11:31] Jack Linden: Fontte, if people try to get around the ban or promote other to, we will deal with that. there have been two very clear cases of that recently

'''[11:31] Jack Linden: both have stopped

[11:32] Fontte Newbold: Essentially, folks like Robo have -- what was the buzzword? -- running where he's directly setting up 50 ads for clients.

[11:32] Fontte Newbold: And offloading it onto their accounts.

[11:32] Talarus Luan: "BIG 50 Ad Program"

[11:32] Ewan Mureaux: the big 50!

[11:32] Fontte Newbold: I thought so.

[11:32] Ewan Mureaux: I want to set upo the bigger 50, give me 500k and i'll give you 50x1024m and you can be a ready made land baron

[11:32] Fontte Newbold: I have to admit. In terms of getting around the restriction, that would be brilliant... if this was the IRS.

'''[11:33] Jack Linden: I can't discuss individuals, but going against the spirit of the 'less advertising' decision is not cool

[11:33] Fontte Newbold: That's all I was hoping to hear.

[11:34] Talarus Luan: So, is this pretty much the end of the "new policy" implementation? IE, are we on the downhill side of it now?

[11:34] Juko Tempel: is OpenSpace takeup good?

[11:34] Tammy Nowotny: I mentioned the banlinks earlier... how/why were those deleted?

[11:35] Sarah Nerd: I have to divide a lot for someone. See you soon guys.

'''[11:35] Jack Linden: if you mean the ad farm issue, we're certainly in the latter stages of cleanup, but if you mean the overal push, we've only just started

[11:35] Chaos Mohr: tc Sarah :)

[11:35] Qie Niangao: have fun, Sarah

[11:35] Talarus Luan: The Arbor probes were killed by Arbor directly

[11:35] Ewan Mureaux: bye sarah

'''[11:35] Jack Linden: we've many more areas to tackle

'''[11:35] Jack Linden: bye sarah

[11:35] Tammy Nowotny: tc Saeah!

[11:35] Herne Diker: are the AR's helpful?

[11:35] Talarus Luan: Good, because landcutting has not abated.

'''[11:36] Jack Linden: incredibly helpful Herne

[11:36] Qie Niangao: Jack, a few weeks ago, you mentioned that next on the docket was policy to curb landcutting... what timeframe is that? ANd any update?

[11:36] Tammy Nowotny: it wasn't just a case of the list being cleared... the objects themselves vanished, even from my inventiry

'''[11:36] Jack Linden: yes, i was looking at some incredible land cutting today in Jun* something region

[11:36] Talarus Luan: We've got even more creative mess now. "Waffling"

[11:37] Ewan Mureaux: land cutting continues and the people who hold thousands of meters of land on tier waiting to rejoin are losing patience and are constantly let down with the management of land stock

[11:37] Talarus Luan: Though some had started some of that a while back

'''[11:37] Jack Linden: i would like to start the forum feedback loop in the next week or two on landcutting

'''[11:37] Jack Linden: see what the views/ideas are

[11:37] Chaos Mohr: having land available at 2.4/m isn't helping matters as the land cutters have so little capital they have to invest in order to destroy something

[11:37] Moon Corrigible: I"m sorry Talarus.. what is 'waffling?'

[11:38] Talarus Luan: Interesting, Tammy; I still have all my Clocktower probes in inventory

'''[11:38] Jack Linden: yeah the waffling thing is pretty awful

[11:38] Talarus Luan: Waffling.. well, let's see

[11:38] Talarus Luan: You take a good-sized plot..

[11:38] Talarus Luan: Say 1024-4096

[11:38] Tammy Nowotny: oh I checked again... I stil;l have a efw after all... I guess they just pinged all the vendors and probes and killed them

[11:38] Tammy Nowotny: I stand corrected

[11:38] Talarus Luan: Then you carve out a pattern of 16sqm holes in it, probably about 10%.

[11:39] Fontte Newbold: Mm. Waffles.

[11:39] Talarus Luan: Then you dump the larger plot to the landbots and leave the holes connected at some hidesoun price

[11:39] Talarus Luan: *hideous

[11:39] Ewan Mureaux: and the trick about setting the landing point in another piece of cut up land, tricking people into buying the wrong plot

[11:39] Talarus Luan: Yup

[11:39] Chaos Mohr: which of course the landbots cut up, sell at the bottom of the market, driving the market even lower

[11:39] Juko Tempel waves

[11:39] Moon Corrigible: Goodness what people wont think of!

[11:40] Fontte Newbold: Most of these people need to work in marketing.

[11:40] Talarus Luan: Well, what is bad is the poor landbot owner ends up holding the bag.

[11:40] Qie Niangao: or making license plates

[11:40] Talarus Luan: So, yeah, like Chaos says, he has to chop up the mess somehow to sell it

[11:40] Qie Niangao: Jungreung looks pretty well shredded.

[11:40] Chaos Mohr: Talurus, the landbot owners never end up holding the bag, they make so much off what they do get, even abandoning the crap doesn't hurt them

[11:40] Ewan Mureaux: I would like to see a map thhat that was less yellow, where people valued their land, could love it

'''[11:40] Jack Linden: Qie, that might be the one I saw

[11:41] Juko Tempel: me too Ewan

[11:41] Talarus Luan: Yeah.. I was being minimally sarcastic, but it still is a loss for them, especially as the practice continues to be allowed.

[11:41] Timo Daehlie: yeah and meet people instead of bots

[11:41] Melodie Darwin: so the waffle in jumeoni is pretty bad, is anything in the works for that amount of land fraud?

[11:41] Ewan Mureaux: trouble is another raft of purple will turn yellow by monday or tuesday

'''[11:42] Jack Linden: Melodie, yes, i think landcutting will have to be dealt with, probably by another policy shift that allows us to consider the practice as being against the ToS

[11:42] Talarus Luan: Checkerboarding used to be against the ToS.

[11:42] Talarus Luan: Why did that change?

[11:43] Timo Daehlie: can we report it as land fraude for now jack ?

'''[11:43] Jack Linden: checkerboarding, yes.. we used to frown on that, especially when done as harrassment.

'''[11:43] Jack Linden: reporting it wouild be good, it helps

[11:43] Talarus Luan: Well, uhh.. it is ALWAYS done as harassment, or fraud

[11:43] Timo Daehlie: ok .:)

'''[11:43] Jack Linden: we can detect it at our end, by looking for regions with high parcel counts, but it's more useful to get reports

'''[11:43] Jack Linden: as they tend to have more context

[11:44] Talarus Luan: Map overlay

[11:44] Talarus Luan: EASY to spot

[11:44] Moon Corrigible: Plus there's always the possibility of people cutting up their own land for different usages with no intention of selling it

[11:44] Talarus Luan: I can get you 30-40 of them in about 10 minutes

[11:44] Qie Niangao: Now, Talarus: you know kidnapping is just babysitting, with the aid of firearms. ;)

[11:44] Juko Tempel: lol

[11:44] Melodie Darwin: so if the policy shifts, will it include the cutting that has already been done?

'''[11:45] Jack Linden: ah yes, Jumeoni is the one I was reviewing earlier.

'''[11:45] Jack Linden: Yes Melodie

[11:45] Melodie Darwin: good

[11:45] Juko Tempel: can't warnings be sent before action is taken?

[11:45] Talarus Luan: Yes, but you buy a perfectly fine plot, carve it up TOTALLY into 16s, and then dump all but the corners, which you set for L$20000, I think it is pretty clear what is going on

'''[11:45] Jack Linden: (assuming the Cutter is still owning some of it)

[11:45] Moon Corrigible: Oh of course Talaurs *grin*

[11:45] Timo Daehlie: who buys 64m2 for 12999

[11:46] Talarus Luan: That, and I would like to see a "land grievance" board with policies for dealing with donut holes.

[11:46] Talarus Luan: and similar land grievances between residents.

[11:46] Qie Niangao: (oh, yes, Jumeoni makes quite a pretty map, it does.)

'''[11:47] Jack Linden: as we staff up against this stuff, you'll see them being dealt with more quickly. we've a number of open hirs specifically against Mainland

[11:47] Talarus Luan: Thing is, just like the previous two years of handwringing and backroom "discussion" about the issue, it goes on unabated.

[11:49] Talarus Luan: You definitely got the low-hanging fruit. No doubt. It's "better", but the problem still grows, because the source/cause/origin remains largely unaddressed.

'''[11:50] Jack Linden: It's a process Talarus, not a big switch we can just throw. We will go as quickly as we can, and you guys will judge whether we have done what is needed over the next few months I'm sure

'''[11:50] Jack Linden: We are highly motivated, believe me

[11:50] Timo Daehlie: some more months for me is 10000us$ + tier costs jack

[11:50] Talarus Luan: Actually, it easily could have been a "big switch". You already had/have the policy. You just have to choose to enforce/fix it.

[11:50] Timo Daehlie: plus low mainland prices ..

[11:50] Timo Daehlie: what would you do ?

[11:51] Talarus Luan: ..and yes, you assume that there will be any people left to give you feedback.

[11:51] Fontte Newbold: I think he's talking about the social implications, as opposed to the technical.

[11:51] Fontte Newbold: That does seem to be the gating factor to a lot of these discussions.

[11:52] Talarus Luan: The social implications of cleaning up the griefing and harassment with land are not really ultimately disputable.

[11:52] Ewan Mureaux: isnt tghe social implication causing "white-flight" to new sanitised managed areas at a higher rate than normal?

'''[11:52] Jack Linden: I'm a resident too Timo, and I'm keeping hold of my land because I know how rapidly it will improve. :)

[11:52] Qie Niangao: Jack: wanna buy some more? :p

[11:52] Juko Tempel: in which continent? i think it will vary..

[11:52] Fontte Newbold: The way I see it, the social element comes down to one clear factor: consistency.

[11:52] Juko Tempel: Sarah has some cheap...

[11:52] Talarus Luan: Yeah, really, I have 32ksqm if you're interested. :-/

[11:53] Fontte Newbold: If you can instill a sense of consistency and transparency into the enforcement process, I think we'll see a massive improvement.

[11:53] Fontte Newbold: Easier said than done, I know.

'''[11:53] Jack Linden: hehe. listen, i absolutely know how pressing these issues are, and I know how much resource they take to properly stop them. ad farms had to be the number one, as you guys all told us it was.

'''[11:53] Jack Linden: we will roll after the other areas as quickly as we can

[11:54] Fontte Newbold: Well. At the end of the day, it's all a connected process. If things transition from putting out specific fires to improving things as a whole, it'd be all for the better.

[11:54] Ewan Mureaux: Jack I have a different question, what about these ugly building put up saying "mainland is a piece of shit come live on my estate"

[11:54] Tammy Nowotny: you did fix the ad farms, Jack... Thanks! I was pleasantly surprised that it worked out as well as it did.

[11:54] Ewan Mureaux: why are they allowed?

[11:55] Talarus Luan: Yeah, see that in land search at times, too

'''[11:55] Jack Linden: Ewan.. do you have an example?

[11:55] Talarus Luan: Hiyas Yohan. :)

[11:55] Ewan Mureaux: yes, come to jubata at the great wall, look st the sim next door

[11:55] Yohan Pintens: Howdy :)

[11:55] Juko Tempel agrees about the ad farm

[11:56] Ewan Mureaux: there

[11:57] Ewan Mureaux: "dont buy land" "mainland is full of extortion and banlines"

'''[11:57] Jack Linden: Consider that Ad Farms were the biggest issue we had, and we have drastically improved the situation in just 4 weeks. That includes several hundred warnings/suspensions. So we can go very quickly when we need to.

[11:57] Juko Tempel: ready.. set.. go!

[11:57] Juko Tempel: lol

[11:57] Ewan Mureaux: and porno dispensers but those belong to the same people as who are saying "come tomy estate" so its clear their long term goal was toruin mainland

[11:58] Fontte Newbold: That's just it. We're not talking about a one-off thing, so much as a process of keeping issues LIKE ad farms and extortion at bay. ;)

[11:58] Talarus Luan: Yeah, Tarames Schuman did a lot of that, but she's gone now.

[11:58] Yohan Pintens: Jack in your spare time (ha!) can you share official names of the continents for those maps I just gave you?

[11:58] Ewan Mureaux: they have a load of "information" posters up

[11:58] Fontte Newbold: Because if the issue lapses, it will creep back into the system.

'''[11:58] Jack Linden: exactly Fontte. which takes constant vigilance and therefore resource.

'''[11:58] Jack Linden: which is what we're doing

[11:58] Juko Tempel: thanks Jack.. sorry have to go

[11:59] Talarus Luan: Yep. Looks like the hour is up.

[11:59] Fontte Newbold: I genuinely hope so. Fact is, you should not even *have* to tell me that's what you're doing. I should have access to an open copy of the charter or the precedent and be able to read it myself. ;)

[11:59] Fontte Newbold: But this is how these things go.

[11:59] Moon Corrigible: I do have a question I'd like to pose but its very much a niche issue and wont be of interest to most - I'm wondering if I can just notecard it to you so as not to waste everyone's tme?

[11:59] Tammy Nowotny: TYVM Jack

'''[11:59] Jack Linden: feel free Moon

[12:00] Moon Corrigible: thank you! I really appreciate that!

[12:00] Fontte Newbold: Have a good one.

'''[12:00] Jack Linden: okay guys, I have to run. take care everyone and thanks!

[[Category:Jack Linden Office Hours]]

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-04-30

2009-04-30T19:46:33Z

Elanthius Flagstaff:

<div id='box'>
== List of Attendees ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]
*[[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]
*[[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]
*[[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]
*[[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]
*[[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]
*[[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]
*[[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]
*[[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]
*[[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]
*[[User:Gonzales Martinek|Gonzales Martinek]]
*[[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]
*[[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]
*[[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]
*[[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]
*[[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]
*[[User:Susie Chaffe|Susie Chaffe]]
*[[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]
*[[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]
*[[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]
*[[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]
</div></div>

<div id='box'>
== Transcript ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hey folks!
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: The last time I asked Blue seemed to think that move wouldnt be a big deal at all - which sort of made me hyperventilate - lol
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: greetings, Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Blondin is essentially a PR toadie.
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Hey Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Hey there Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Hi, Jack!
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: hi jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Hi Jack!
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah, well at this point any intelligent person would have realised that the SL residents do not get better like Voltron when they hook up.
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Hi, Jack.
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Gonzales Martinek|Gonzales Martinek]]: Hi Jack.
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Hello Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Generally, someone steps up to try to be the public face of a bad policy. No one gets thrust into that role.
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Now that's an image, Elan
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: hello :)
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Oh come on Talarus, people do whatever they get told to do. Nobody steps up out of nowhere and volunteers to get shouted at all day long
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: The only problem is that Blondin has made himself out to be an architect by many of his responses, so I think he knows a lot more than he is telling, but it doesn't matter.
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: That is, unless you work in customer service. :)
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: If someone told me to sell this pile of crap, I would say "fire me".
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: True we have bigger fish to fry... Hi Jack! - ehhehee
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I didn't really get that impression Talarus, about him being an architect
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: this sounds like a fascinating conversation already!
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: what did i miss?
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]] risks a run for irn bru and hula hoops
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Talkin about the Ursula stuff
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: We're trying to decide if Blondin has any influence over the adult thing whatsoever or if he's just a sacrificial lamb
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: you should read the forum jack :)
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I did. He has said too many things from his own personal stance and used them as answers for me to believe he ISN'T an architect.
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Either that or a masochist.
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: mmmm Irn Bru!! nectar of the gods
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: He may not be THE architect, but he is certainly one of them.
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Elan - the "word list" thing was a big issue when i saw it. After being in meetings where B and Cyn both made it clear they wanted to avoid making the same old errors of word lists...
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: A week later, "poof," here's a dirty word list"
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: Jack, did you already started to take actions against traffic bots?
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Blondin is a part of the team that is handling that project, especially the public communications. But the project itself is a company one, not his
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, Mari, LL is about repeating history instead of learning from it, so I am sure that fits.
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yeah, but there are "key players", who are the ones architecting it, Jack.
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: The word list thing will be more effective than people think. You can't advertise V14gra if no-one knows how to search for it
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Tal - true. It's the AOL "Breast" fiasco I had to face back in '95
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: The "Company" doesn't do ANYthing on its own.
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, if you mean senior staff.. then yes.. and that would be Director level and above
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]] covets an org chart
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: but blondin is not able to handle that on its own
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Word lists *never* work. There's always a fatal flaw
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Directors aren't the only ones who can be architects. Often architecture is delegated to lesser members of a teamm.
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Especially when it gets to the details.
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Blondin is helping with communications. This was a very big decision as you know, and not something that any one person would own in that sense. We have project managers, engineers, PR and marketing and may more people involved
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Honestly I dont give a flying footnote who is in charge - I just want to wake up and find it was all a terrible, horrible dream
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Blondin is one of many people involved, he just happens to be the one in front of the camera more than others
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Anyway.. I don't care all that much anymore. I'm just back after 10 days of vacation away from this place, determining if it is worth staying or not.
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Depends on the structural mentality, actually. There seems to be about a 50/50 split these days between companies where the directors provide architecture, and cut tasks up for lower staff, and the other where Senior Engineers provide those decisions straight to management.
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Either way, it usually comes down to a small group of people making the decision.
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Anyway, land stuff. What's going on with the land cutting policy? Seems like not much action later. That's the trouble with this policy stuff you have to actively keep doing it forever and ever or it stops working
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: I guess we all would be interested in seeing who's championing the adult stuff internalling. :)
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: There was a time, where you sold yourself as just a "front man", like Blondin, Jack. :)
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Internally, too.
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: (Need my caffeine...)
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: I wish I felt that even a 1/8th of the feedback level of the 'bot policy was going into the thoughts behind Ursula. Feedback on itfeels so much like shouting at the clouds
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: About this time last year when we first started coming to you with adfarmer/extortionist issues.
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, last time I reported that we were at about 14,500 16m parcels for sale, down from 16k a couple of weeks before that. We're now at 12k and still falling
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Really?
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah, everyone loves the bot policy on it's face. Hopefully there'll be quicker action on that than the cutting thing. Although, you know, cutting thing is going OK, just not super fast
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Is that 12k for sale 16s? Or 12k total 16s?
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I think how you see this happening depends on where you look :) but it's going fine
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: 12k for sale
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: the total number of them is falling by a similar proportion
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Any idea if people are just taking them off the market and hoping you guys get bored waiting?
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: There's a LOT more that aren't for sale
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: How many of those 12k 16s are owned by the top extortionists?
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: What's the average price range on those that are for sale now?
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: some are being given back to us, in exchange for large parcels. some are being left, some sold for far lower sums (sometimes to bots)
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Go bots!
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: was glad to see the last 16s cleared out of the Shermerville/Blumfield area finally
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: I finally saw some change near me: Plandz finally caved. (Now, if only Primlands would follow, it would make a big dent.)
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dytska, I don't have the exact count but I expect more than half
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: what about traffic bots.....did you start to take actions against them?
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: osrrym style rezing for me :)
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: sorry*
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: and i wouldn't cal them that :)
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I've been buying stuff off Primlands, but he said he just owned too much land and had to dump some
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, what would you call them?
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: yik, i need one other coffee :)
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: "Ex-extortionists?"
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Equinox.. as per the blog, where we see Land bots causing problems we will deal with them then
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Jack - is there anything specific in place regarding temp rezzers at this point? Curious if there is a point where they are known to impact mainland sim performance.
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: thx Jack, for your decision about this problem of bots :)
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: (Referreing specifcially to used to keep somethign "permanentely rezzed")
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: in which way causing problems?
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: lag
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: last night i saw a sim with 121 avis on it
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Marianne, not sure. I don't think we see many issues from them unless people are rezzing whole houses continually
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: which does happen sometimes
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Temp rezzing avatars?
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Equinox - in cases where, for example, a person has a 400+ prim house on a 512m plot
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: found in 1 hour checking 5.000 bots online
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: yes, exactly that Marianne
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Ya, got one of those near Shermerville.
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: thanks Yann
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I think the script limits will fix a lot of the temp rez problems. Maybe anyway
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: thats works marianne if the object bonus is according :)
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: There was a disightion made about bots?
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: decision?
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Atechwolf, yes.. a recent blog post on the Land blog
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I noted that that blog post was never a "featured" post.
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: @ jack, because if i look some region with abusif bot, i have too many lag, its a very great decision for now :)
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Didn't even know it was there until someone mentioned it.
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Temp rezzers are a problem, but in general, rezzing any larger build, permanent or temporary has problems, since server 1.25
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, yeah.. it was supposed to be but there was another Featured one they wanted to leave up
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: people seem to have found it anyway hehe
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: There's a limit?
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jack, when the adult thing goes down what will be the mechanism by which people get to move? It seemed in the audio thingy that people would be given land in Ursula AND get to keep their existing parcel or they'd just be asked to sell it on the general market. What's the specifics?
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: yeah, it's weird. I hardly ever read any of the "featured" posts; the good stuff is always underneath.
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: decision, typo demaon has me today.
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: who made the decision that 128sm parcels will not show in search anymore ?
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: 128sqm parcels never showed in search. Or so says the wiki
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Now it's just impossible to try to list them anyway
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: hello Asterion! :D
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: I wish I could list all the blogs posts on one page.
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: i see..so you could list them and they were not in search
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, for those eligible for the free move period, if they want to sell their parcel at that time rather than hand it to us then we're fine with that, or they can hand it to us by abandoning it
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: If they want to keep their existing plot, but clean the content, then that would be okay too
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: holy cow!
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: So it's not a land swap per se. You're just giving free land to people with adult stores?
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: About 50 sims worth of free land being given out?
*
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I hope you all have lots of land in Ursula to swap.
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: but with extra tier, folks will dump that land for L$0.0001/m2, if they have to.
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We're making the movement of the content, for those most affected. as seamless as possible. basically
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Obviously I have a number of mainland renters with adult stores. I can swap land too right? To move my renters to ursula?
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: @ Jack: the thing in beta grid is active here to for adult* option in age-verification?
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Oh very cool Jack!
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Now will the land have to be owened by an individual or can it be owned by a group?
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ursula (working title only) is a couple of hundred regions in size overall, but only a portion will be live to begin with.. maybe 50 or 70 regions
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: O.o
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: because i have noticed with my alt in test, if i don't have make my age verification i don't have accès to adult setting in rating right?
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Is that all you are expecting to swap land?
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Did I ever tell anyone about my 50 sim pornography store?
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, without looking at the details, that sounds right
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Elan, if I were you, I'd give the buyer bots a vacation for a while, once that swapping starts.
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: No, if you were me you'd immediately start 400 adult businesses
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We'll deal with groups, depending on the accounts contributing tier (they are effectively the owners of the gorup land)
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: oh, i did that already. :p
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Here's a question for you: are you prepared to continue printing "Adult" land as long as it still sells?
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: IE, the proper way to deal with land speculators?
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Mainland is definitely going to zero. All those sims people HAVE to sell fast to avoid doubling up their tier costs? Ugh
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, it's hard to say but the surveys we did of the Mainland showed only a small percentage of parcels actually have adult content on them
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Ok, wait, one more question. What is the land swap thing going to start?
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Have to agree there. The economic impact of flipping so much land is going to be a hassle.
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: *When* not what
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, it'll grow according to the need for the migration, not just because we want to sell lots
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Because, personally, I bought Mature because I could do whatever I wanted to (within the existing ToS, that is). I think it is only fair that I have the same opportunity as anyone to move to Ursula, if I so wish it.
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: Speaking of doubling up, will there be a grace period to avoid increased tier fees durning the move?
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We still have to be very careful about the amount of land for sale
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: gotta zip - have fun all!
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Susie Chaffe|Susie Chaffe]]: votes with Talarus...
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, I expect it'll all start in June
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: by Mari, have fun!
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: tata Mari
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Bye Bye!!
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: Jack, it was announced by M linden that this month, Lindenlab would start publishing land data again. there are just a few hours left for the month to be over, but i still didn't see it, besides the the Q1 results, but that was not what he meant... Is this project postponed?
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: bye marianne
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Angela, we'll be advising people on how to handle their parcels so they don't double their tier
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: you even promised that too jack
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: great, htx. :-)
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: *thx
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dennis, I'd need to check on that but I believe we still plan to push data live again - I just don't know exactly when it'll be ready
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: well, M knew it
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: so
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I would really like to push a lot more data out
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Why not just turn on the old system again until then? Add a small footnote saying it could be inaccurate. We don't mind
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Jack, you didn't really answer what I was asking.
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Because I think it owuld give people a lot more assurance about the stability of the market
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: But the numbers we push out have to be accurate and very well explained
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: it has always been inacurate, so 6 months more wouldn't make the difference, would just be for the first time inacurate negative for lindenlab.
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Scenario: a few businesses/land owners get swapped for free, the rest of Ursula goes up for auction. prices for all parcels get pushed into the stratosphere.
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: the land market is better to be stable as you had not grow for 5 month
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, we discussed that but people just keep misinterpreting it and then making decisions on the back of the misunderstanding
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Depends, maybe LL could promise to print a new sim every time prices go over 10/sqm or something
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: what kind of "descisions " do they make?
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, that's what I am asking.
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: OK, it's fine Jack. I know you're not gonna bring it back.
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Are they willing to regulate the land market from supply-side economics again?
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: :) Elanthius. We will. I have at least 3 projects on the Land slate that are all about more data for residents in 2009
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Thing is talarus, the more AO land you print the lower AO land stays but you're going to destroy the regular mainland in the meantime
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: (Jack, sorry, I meant not bring back old data, I'm sure one day we'll see the new data too)
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: true about making decisions based upon faulty premise bit.
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: guess you forgot to set due dates for these projects *g*
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: So? I already expect mainland to go to pot from this.
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: do you have a ruls, for adult sim, i i have more of 30 sim, i need to respect a distance if i add with pg or mature sim?
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: It wouldn;t make sense for us to throw more adult land out than is needed
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Define "needed"
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: as in, required for the migration
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: By whom? You? or the residents?
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: You dont think others who dont qualify for the migration wont want to go to?
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: I'm thinking particularly of new businesses
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I'm thinking of existing businesses who want to have the same rights they do now.
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Those first to migrate get premium picks
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Erm.. excuse me.. "privileges"
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Oh sure Moon, and there will be auctions after the free period, but Tal seemed to suggest we would just push out all 200+ regions. Which isn't the way it will work at all
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Oh doh! I knew that sorry!
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: No, I am saying to keep the market supplied to avoid the effects of land speculation.
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Mainland prices would likely tank, even if it were a true swap and LL kept the swapped-out parcel off the auction queue. But with just doubling up the land... god knows what floor the prices will find.
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: As long as sims are selling for thousands of dollars, why stop?
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: The land we inherit on the older areas, we will look at improving by fixing parcelling, adding parks, trees and making larger parcels for auction
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I can't decide which is best. If you drip them out slowly people will never know when you will stop and they will constantly pay over the odds so they don't miss out. If you print them all at once there will be economic armageddon in the land market
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: zoning too?
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ahh okay Tal, I misunderstood
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jack, you won't inherit any older land, everyone will sell it, well anyone with any sense will
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Theoretically, the middle ground would be to give us a timeline of rollout. And then stick to the deadlines.
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I mean, I already expect to have to throw away my Mature mainland as it is.
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Not if its going to double their teirs Elanthius
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: [X sims, Y day]
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: It will never be worth what it was when I bought it, even in the realm of L$5-7/sqm
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: You could sell any parcel of any size right now for about L$2.7/sqm
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Right now true - but we will only have 9 days to move
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: No-one will abandon unless the market totally fails like some sort of virtual Iceland
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: and you know that during those nine days land prices will be near 0
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: But it should spring back pretty qucikly afterwards
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I suppose it depends on how much the land speculators want to take and hold while things settle back down again Elanthius
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]] looks for wood to knock on
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Well, I'll stop predicting the future because I definitely agree there's gonna be some crazy unpredictable stuff going down
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yay Capitalism!
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: Speculators can have a drastic effect. Just look at the real life encominity now.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Land speculators, naturally, will want to maximize profit from this. :p
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: not seeing that "spring back quickly" thing... with all that new land on the market
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: that's one of the probs i see with landbots. they keep the land prices low by releasing (selling) stuff at 3.2/sqm
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: Land needs to get back around that 5 L$ level again.. All of the planning around land to provide some incentive to premium members is more than 75% solved when land actually has a value.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: In this case, they'd be looking to short mainland and long AO land.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Well a bunch of it will drop off immediately Quie, as people abandon land in order to avoid paying double tiers
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: After the 2 biggest landowners besides myself get to move because they have adult content and advertise it publicly, a good chunk of it will be emptty and remains so
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: makes it tough for the average joes who are not playing in the real estate market.
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Blah.. *empty *remin
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: *remain
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: landbots do the same thing that their human owners would do themselves.
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: yes, if it gets abandoned to the Governor... but if it gets sold for a song, it will just keep rattling around at the bottom of the market, pulling everything down with it.
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: That's crazy Angela, do you think they're buying land at L$5 and selling it at L$3.2 just to crush the market?
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Automation is not the cause of market fallout.
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Oh very true Qie - didnt think of htat
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: People not willing to pay more when everyone else is selling for less.
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Qie: and cut and cut and cut as it changes hands
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: good point, Elan. :(
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: A friend of mine paid over L$10/sqm for 16k sqm of land. He had to sell it for L$3.5/sqm, because it would have never sold at L$5-6
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: did anyone have anything else they wanted to raise? do shout up if you do
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: They are also unwilling to hang onto land and improve it and stay on it when there is little loss suffered by simply abandoning land. You make more slums than improvements.
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: of course not elan. people who have very large parcels, sim size, even, sell low bc they need out for whatever reason.
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I dunno, Jack. I would like to believe that LL is going to do right in all this, but all I am seeing is a textbook set up for EPIC FAIL.
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah, it's not clear what will happen when land isn't worth anything. No incentive to keep it or buy it at all.
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: so, they buy them and cut them up. watch the sales, prices start edging up to around 4/sqm, then boom, an influx of 3.2/sqm
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I wish some Linden with a clue would get his PR hat on and sit down with us and give us the truth.
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Oh, thaht's kinda me doing that but it's not for the reasons you think.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: i still see massive amount of traffic bots, seems lindenlab can't handle it themselves, why did you write so clear "we don't need you to fill an abuse report". I do think its abuse, and i do think you fail to solve it on your own.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: This has probably been answered in the blog but I've mised the answer Jack - if a resident simply wants to move their home to Urusula - not have a business on it but just because they want to live there - will they be eligible for the swap?
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, hopefully you'll be here talking to us afterwards so we can pick it apart. Lets face it, this is new territory and something we're going to learn from however it goes
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: well, it will take them time to clear out the traffic bots. *laughs*
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, what I don't understand is why you aren't dealing with us "picking it apart" BEFORE it turns into a mass train wreck.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I think it's going to be challenging to get the migration through, because we don't know how many people will apply for that.. but I think it will settle quite quickly after that point
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]: Jack, my group runs a communiy on Mainland. We work hard to make our area a nicer place and we accomplished quite a lot. You said that LL plans to use recovered land to improve Mainland.
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Who wants to stick around to talk about a train wreck after the fact?
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]: Would you also take into consideration selling some of that land to communities such as ours?
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: It's kinda obvious and pointless after that.
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Indigo, most defintiely
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: "Yup, it's a train wreck, alright"
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: ack spellos sorry
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]: great, thanks :)
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: hmmm, that's a great idea. have an additional period for offering land to people who don't qual for the free, but would like to buy for a fair val. then, open it up to auctions.
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Jack... couldnt you set up a preliminary survey of sorts and just ask peple who are intending to apply to put intheir land numbers - just as a preliminary 'we'd like to get a count' sort of a thing
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, i'm not sensing that you're a giant fan of this. :) But then i could be misreading the signals hehe
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: If you didnt make people stick to the decision I dont think residents would mind
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: He's being very subtle Jack
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Oh Jack, any chance whatsoever you guys won't increase the price of Homesteads at exactly the same time the Aporncalypse takes place?
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, I just call it as I see it. Show me something that tells me something.. ANYting different.
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I'm not unconvinceable, but PR spin, "statistics", and complete failure to answer questions isn't "doing it" for me.
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, I think the timing will be earlier for the adult stuff.
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: June 1st for the estate repricing right?
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: the homestead increase will be a bigger apocalypse then the adult one. approx 7000 sims gone in a few months.
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I'll be keeping mine Dennis. Not buying anymore any time soon, but keeping the ones I have
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: July 1st Elanthius
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Ah, my mistake
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: See, the thing is, even though OpenSpaces were a huge debacle, I can understand and (somewhat) support what is happening with them.
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: you might keep them, but many will not elanthius
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: That's actually an interesting observation, Elan.
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: i kept mines too last time, but saw thousands others dissapear
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: You might as well write off 2009 it's going to be a disaster for LL with all this stuff.
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I have yet to see anything to convince me that this "adult content" push is necessary, let alone the way it is being handled.
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Just call it a land bailout package. It's easier to remember that way.
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah well obviously Dennis, just look at M's graphs, full prim sims stable since January or earlier but Homesteads we lost about half of them or something
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: hmmm... suppose Homestead exiles will be interested in cheap ex-pr0no Mainland?
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yeah, they'll be able to practically get it for free.
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: one way to get those Premium numbers up. ;)
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: They'll pick up free Mature land on mainland. At L$1/sqm or whatever it'll be cheaper tier and cheaper buy price than most estates
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: yeah, i think too, with bulk option in 1.23 its very important :)
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: Naa...each time the encomity of SL goes up, they create a new project to try to distroy it. Examples, sim price increase, AC stuff.
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: :-)
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Elan: And that's why the speculator's angle is relevant. Though, shouldn't this make you happy? :p
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Fontte: sure, I'm hoping to make a killing on this Ao thing. I'm pretty sure there'll never be enough so I just need to buy tons and people will be begging me for it
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: It's not a case of trying to destroy...more a case of squeezing more juice out of the lemon!!!
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: It's a big, one-sided market flux that's going to make a lot of people rich.
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I think one big question on my mind is this: presuming it turns out to be nearly as bad as the worst we're expecting, what is LL's "backup strategy"?
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah, I was speaking earlier from the perspective of the general resident. For me personally this could be way awesome
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]] nodnods
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: you really think they know what a strategy is tal :)
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: What are you going to say to us when this thing goes completely off the rails?
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: oops?
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: If you all haven't had a discussion about what to do when it does, I think you better plan one, and soon.
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: "We'll sell you your land back at 1.5 times markup?"
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: What's the worst case scenario Talarus? Lose half the residents, mainland prices are near 0 but people are still paying tier, estates still largely exist. Then just build from there. It won't be all that bad
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: as usual, they will say its all fine. and better then expected even
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Well, the Governor could decide to start buying Mainland.
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: this isn't a decision that is going to be reversed, we feel it's very important that we make this change. if the actual implementation goes awry, then of course we'll make changes as needed to get through that but fundamentally it will still happen
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: As far as I can tell, we're looking at a whole lot of short term market flux. Elan actually had a good point, about the timing of the Homestead repricing.
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: With half the residents, half the mainland will likely go abandoned, with no one paying tier on it.
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: and not only that...for the first time they will have real competiion showing up this year
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: If I was playing the numbers, I'd bet that'd push a lot of people back to mainland pricing.
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, the thing is, if the implementation goes awry, and the only fix is reversing it, are you willing to live with it being "broken" going forward?
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: If so, that tells me what I needed to know.
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Half I would think is conservative....age verification will be the new black....and Ursula (Project Name ) the new cash cow
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Thus setting up a terrific profit for anyone looking to buy parcels cheap after people start the move to Ursula.
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Just saying. :p
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: What could possibly happen that would make it necessary to reverse the migration? Can't think of anything.
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: because, I am telling you now, I'm ready to press the "Abandon" button right now and walk away.
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah, so what, oldbies quit all the time. It's never as earth shattering as the oldbie thinks
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: If it is THAT broken, and you STILL insist that it is the "right path", then what's the point in staying?
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: you tlak like a linden elan lol
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I never said it was "earth shattering".
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Point it, I don't think I would be the only one, and it won't all be "oldbies" doing it.
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Some folks are already throwing in the towel.
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, yo udon't know how this will go, i really do think that we need to go into the process and judge it as it unfolds - not weeks before it has even started
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: and what will you do if it fails....Tal was asking for a backup
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I don't need to "know" how it will go to do a risk analysis of what you are doing.
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I know people are concerned, and when there are big changes like this it can be really difficult, but Second Life has changed hugely and often over the last few years.
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Well, speaking personally, my gripe is whether you guys have inspected the speculator angle, and calculated out what the market will do when you start dumping large swaths of sims.
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: is there an expectation Jack that age verification will be carried out by the vast majority of new joins?
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: As long as you keep rollout in manageable bites, it should be OK.
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Not gonna lie, I'm quite excited about speculating on this stuff
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: So, Jack, CONVINCE me, or at least help me CONVINCE MYSELF that my risk analysis is flawed.
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: @jack: i have noticed some interesting changement or some bad changement, but its the ruls of evolution now :)
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I keep asking for that, and you and Blondin, and every other Linden are just handing me more rope.
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Driftwood, for people coming in they wil have a huge grid to explore even without being verified, but if they *choose* to explore the adult areas then they will be able to verify and do that
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: A huge, EMPTY grid to explore
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I like "will be able" instead of "absolutely must". it's removing options and freedom
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: what percentage is currently age verified?
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Zero
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: And payment information used will still count toward age verification yes?
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: There's no way to verify age.
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: with assurance
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: That's definitely the verbiage that pisses me off most. This isn't about adding options or giving people freedom, you're taking away freedom and adding restrictions
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: As an aside, I hope this means you'll have a more strict policy on banlines, considering people will have fewer reasons for "privacy" on the mainland. :P
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Agreed Tal and thats my point......i know we should not judge but a migration would not be my guess...more exodus
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: I've tried to age verfify. I'me 40+ and failed.
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, there are 200 adult regions and we don't expect to use all of those for a while. the grid is tens of thousands of regions.. how would the grid possibly be empty?
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: That makes no sense at all
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: And yeah, I agree on the verbiage.
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: just put payment info in and you are verified
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: By people like me leaving because we're fed up with LL's bullshit
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Fontte: in 1.23 viewer, you can make the banlines invisible. unfortunately, vehicles still see them. :(
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: all premiums already have payment info with us, and they are the Mainland owners
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Well, if you give away 50 and auction them off in the right way prices will hit L$50/sqm and of course you won't use them all up. But if you do it a different way they will immediately be full and people will be begging for more
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: One of my consistent gripes with the blog, and Linden interaction in general these days, is it's filled with buzzwords and spin. We'd like honest assessment and discussion, not lawyerspeak. :D
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: JIRA that Qie
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I have a half sim now. It ain't much, but it is a half sim more of empty space when I am gone.
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: hehehe
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: Qie, yes jira it, with clear reprod i need for test: )
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: I am missing something...Ursula is purely for business....not for residential??
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Wait, scratch my last statement. No matter how many you print, if you auction them in any reasonable way you will sell every single one
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: How will you know if you don't need anymore?
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, the number of people who have told me they are very upset about this is less than 10 (and I get a huge number of IMs). If this is as unpopular as you think then it's not reflected in the support calls, tickets, etc. We know that for some people this isn't a popular move, but that doesn't mean everyone
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: If you auction a system and people bid on it then is that a sign you need to auction another?
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Less than 10?? O.o Read the forums much??
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: you really have to read the forums jack!!!
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jack, come on there's more than 10 people in THIS ROOM that are very upset about it
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: lol
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Jack... dearest... I'm very upset about this *g*
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Speaking of the forums. I'd really like the old RSS link to be re-enabled. :P
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: you are now talking about mainland owners, but estate sims will have to be flagged adult too from time to time... and people want to buy their sex poseballs, so they need to get there somehow jack. and yes, they come ALSO for other things then sex, just the question is how many come for everything but sex.
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Do you want to publicly announced that you're tallying dissent? I can have your inbox full in a few hours.
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I do read the forums, I was talking about the direct IMs I get. As i said, I know some people are unhappy about it but that doesn't mean everyone is
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: So I can do some parsing on all the topics without reading all the BAAAAWWWWWW threads. :D
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Jack, people don't KNOW to tell you that.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: *I* haven't IMed you about it.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: So I guess I am not in that "less than 10" figure?
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: sorry jack, i need to leave for french localization meeting , but i'm back in next week! :)
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: it's true: I've now heard from one person in-world who supports it, and there were a couple posting on the forums.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: I personally know of three sim owner that are VERY UPSET on how the AC is being done.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: geeez....most people are unhappy about it jack
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: See? that's what I am talking about.. CLUELESS!!
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Come on jack, that's crazy. I don't randomly IM Lindens to tell them I'm unhappy about something. I post on the forums or the blog and hope you guys read it
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: you just dont know the market !!
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Have you considered, y'know.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: or what is really going on in sl
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Starting a vote thread on it? :P
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: Jack, are you disusaional? Oh wait...nevermind..
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: 2 estate owners, 3 sims owners, myself and about 20 residents. not happy.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: On the forums there were over 6000 posts and maybe three posters were actively for the change
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: So we had a somewhat accurate number of for and against?
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Jack, announce the policy on the login screen and take a poll.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Go on. I DARE you.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: yes good idea tal
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ack, sadly I have to go to my next meeting. I think this will be, ultimately, a good change and I'm happy to own that it will be difficult for some people
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: The fact is, this sort of change is traditionally seen as negative. It pisses people off to have to move their established businesses.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: I mean, come on.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I think you will get a few more than "less than 10".
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: And we'll do all we can to make it less difficult.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Look at all the .xxx legislation that failed.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: HUGE negative backlash.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I'll tell everyone to IM you and tell you they are unhappy
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: LEss dificult, bah
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Or happy as the case may be
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: and i guess we'll soon know how it goes :)
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: OK. That's all I needed to know. Thanks, Jack. :)
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: If you're going to go ahead with this change, at the very least be honest about it. :)
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: I only message Jack for chocolate.
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Anyone interested in half a sim of Mature mainland?
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: im jack for free lindens XD
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: sorry to cut out mid conversation, i feel like these could be 3 hours and we'd still not be done
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: Thanks Jack!!
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: take care jack
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: tah
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: true!
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: jack :)
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Welcome to meetings. :D
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: thanks, Jack.
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Have a good one.
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hehe
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: bye jack, and thanks! :-)
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]: where, Talarus? :)
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Great Pubnico
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Bye Jack
</div></div>

<div id='box' style='text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em;'>
Generated by [http://kuraiko.zeitenwerk.de/wikify.php SL Chatlog Wikify]
</div>

[[Category:Jack Linden Office Hours]]

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-04-30

2009-04-30T19:45:48Z

Elanthius Flagstaff:

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-04-30

2009-04-30T19:42:04Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: /* List of Attendees */

<div id='box'>
== List of Attendees ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]
*[[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]
*[[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]
*[[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]
*[[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]
*[[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]
*[[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]
*[[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]
*[[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]
*[[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]
*[[User:Gonzales Martinek|Gonzales Martinek]]
*[[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]
*[[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]
*[[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]
*[[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]
*[[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]
*[[User:Susie Chaffe|Susie Chaffe]]
*[[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]
*[[User:Land Rental|Land Rental]]
*[[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]
*[[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]
*[[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]
</div></div>

<div id='box'>

== Transcript ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hey folks!
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: The last time I asked Blue seemed to think that move wouldnt be a big deal at all - which sort of made me hyperventilate - lol
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: greetings, Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Blondin is essentially a PR toadie.
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Hey Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Hey there Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Hi, Jack!
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: hi jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Hi Jack!
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah, well at this point any intelligent person would have realised that the SL residents do not get better like Voltron when they hook up.
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Hi, Jack.
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Gonzales Martinek|Gonzales Martinek]]: Hi Jack.
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Hello Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Generally, someone steps up to try to be the public face of a bad policy. No one gets thrust into that role.
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Now that's an image, Elan
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: hello :)
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Oh come on Talarus, people do whatever they get told to do. Nobody steps up out of nowhere and volunteers to get shouted at all day long
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: The only problem is that Blondin has made himself out to be an architect by many of his responses, so I think he knows a lot more than he is telling, but it doesn't matter.
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: That is, unless you work in customer service. :)
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: If someone told me to sell this pile of crap, I would say "fire me".
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: True we have bigger fish to fry... Hi Jack! - ehhehee
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I didn't really get that impression Talarus, about him being an architect
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: this sounds like a fascinating conversation already!
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: what did i miss?
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]] risks a run for irn bru and hula hoops
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Talkin about the Ursula stuff
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: We're trying to decide if Blondin has any influence over the adult thing whatsoever or if he's just a sacrificial lamb
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: you should read the forum jack :)
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I did. He has said too many things from his own personal stance and used them as answers for me to believe he ISN'T an architect.
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Either that or a masochist.
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: mmmm Irn Bru!! nectar of the gods
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: He may not be THE architect, but he is certainly one of them.
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Elan - the "word list" thing was a big issue when i saw it. After being in meetings where B and Cyn both made it clear they wanted to avoid making the same old errors of word lists...
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: A week later, "poof," here's a dirty word list"
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: Jack, did you already started to take actions against traffic bots?
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Blondin is a part of the team that is handling that project, especially the public communications. But the project itself is a company one, not his
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, Mari, LL is about repeating history instead of learning from it, so I am sure that fits.
*[11:05] VisitorMonitor: Dimitris Snoodle has entered store secondlife:///app/agent/6d516ef9-55d9-45d9-81f0-0e29daf091ea/about secondlife://Steamboat/185/73/88
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yeah, but there are "key players", who are the ones architecting it, Jack.
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: The word list thing will be more effective than people think. You can't advertise V14gra if no-one knows how to search for it
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Tal - true. It's the AOL "Breast" fiasco I had to face back in '95
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: The "Company" doesn't do ANYthing on its own.
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, if you mean senior staff.. then yes.. and that would be Director level and above
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]] covets an org chart
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: but blondin is not able to handle that on its own
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Word lists *never* work. There's always a fatal flaw
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Directors aren't the only ones who can be architects. Often architecture is delegated to lesser members of a teamm.
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Especially when it gets to the details.
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Blondin is helping with communications. This was a very big decision as you know, and not something that any one person would own in that sense. We have project managers, engineers, PR and marketing and may more people involved
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Honestly I dont give a flying footnote who is in charge - I just want to wake up and find it was all a terrible, horrible dream
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Blondin is one of many people involved, he just happens to be the one in front of the camera more than others
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Anyway.. I don't care all that much anymore. I'm just back after 10 days of vacation away from this place, determining if it is worth staying or not.
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Depends on the structural mentality, actually. There seems to be about a 50/50 split these days between companies where the directors provide architecture, and cut tasks up for lower staff, and the other where Senior Engineers provide those decisions straight to management.
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Either way, it usually comes down to a small group of people making the decision.
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Anyway, land stuff. What's going on with the land cutting policy? Seems like not much action later. That's the trouble with this policy stuff you have to actively keep doing it forever and ever or it stops working
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: I guess we all would be interested in seeing who's championing the adult stuff internalling. :)
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: There was a time, where you sold yourself as just a "front man", like Blondin, Jack. :)
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Internally, too.
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: (Need my caffeine...)
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: I wish I felt that even a 1/8th of the feedback level of the 'bot policy was going into the thoughts behind Ursula. Feedback on itfeels so much like shouting at the clouds
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: About this time last year when we first started coming to you with adfarmer/extortionist issues.
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, last time I reported that we were at about 14,500 16m parcels for sale, down from 16k a couple of weeks before that. We're now at 12k and still falling
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Really?
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah, everyone loves the bot policy on it's face. Hopefully there'll be quicker action on that than the cutting thing. Although, you know, cutting thing is going OK, just not super fast
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Is that 12k for sale 16s? Or 12k total 16s?
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I think how you see this happening depends on where you look :) but it's going fine
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: 12k for sale
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: the total number of them is falling by a similar proportion
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Any idea if people are just taking them off the market and hoping you guys get bored waiting?
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: There's a LOT more that aren't for sale
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: How many of those 12k 16s are owned by the top extortionists?
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: What's the average price range on those that are for sale now?
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: some are being given back to us, in exchange for large parcels. some are being left, some sold for far lower sums (sometimes to bots)
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Go bots!
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: was glad to see the last 16s cleared out of the Shermerville/Blumfield area finally
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: I finally saw some change near me: Plandz finally caved. (Now, if only Primlands would follow, it would make a big dent.)
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dytska, I don't have the exact count but I expect more than half
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: what about traffic bots.....did you start to take actions against them?
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: osrrym style rezing for me :)
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: sorry*
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: and i wouldn't cal them that :)
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I've been buying stuff off Primlands, but he said he just owned too much land and had to dump some
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, what would you call them?
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: yik, i need one other coffee :)
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: "Ex-extortionists?"
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Equinox.. as per the blog, where we see Land bots causing problems we will deal with them then
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Jack - is there anything specific in place regarding temp rezzers at this point? Curious if there is a point where they are known to impact mainland sim performance.
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: thx Jack, for your decision about this problem of bots :)
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: (Referreing specifcially to used to keep somethign "permanentely rezzed")
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: in which way causing problems?
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: lag
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: last night i saw a sim with 121 avis on it
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Marianne, not sure. I don't think we see many issues from them unless people are rezzing whole houses continually
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: which does happen sometimes
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Temp rezzing avatars?
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Equinox - in cases where, for example, a person has a 400+ prim house on a 512m plot
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: found in 1 hour checking 5.000 bots online
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: yes, exactly that Marianne
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Ya, got one of those near Shermerville.
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: thanks Yann
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I think the script limits will fix a lot of the temp rez problems. Maybe anyway
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: thats works marianne if the object bonus is according :)
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: There was a disightion made about bots?
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: decision?
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Atechwolf, yes.. a recent blog post on the Land blog
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I noted that that blog post was never a "featured" post.
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: @ jack, because if i look some region with abusif bot, i have too many lag, its a very great decision for now :)
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Didn't even know it was there until someone mentioned it.
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Temp rezzers are a problem, but in general, rezzing any larger build, permanent or temporary has problems, since server 1.25
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, yeah.. it was supposed to be but there was another Featured one they wanted to leave up
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: people seem to have found it anyway hehe
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: There's a limit?
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jack, when the adult thing goes down what will be the mechanism by which people get to move? It seemed in the audio thingy that people would be given land in Ursula AND get to keep their existing parcel or they'd just be asked to sell it on the general market. What's the specifics?
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: yeah, it's weird. I hardly ever read any of the "featured" posts; the good stuff is always underneath.
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: decision, typo demaon has me today.
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: who made the decision that 128sm parcels will not show in search anymore ?
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: 128sqm parcels never showed in search. Or so says the wiki
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Now it's just impossible to try to list them anyway
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: hello Asterion! :D
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: I wish I could list all the blogs posts on one page.
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: i see..so you could list them and they were not in search
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, for those eligible for the free move period, if they want to sell their parcel at that time rather than hand it to us then we're fine with that, or they can hand it to us by abandoning it
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: If they want to keep their existing plot, but clean the content, then that would be okay too
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: holy cow!
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: So it's not a land swap per se. You're just giving free land to people with adult stores?
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: About 50 sims worth of free land being given out?
*
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I hope you all have lots of land in Ursula to swap.
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: but with extra tier, folks will dump that land for L$0.0001/m2, if they have to.
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We're making the movement of the content, for those most affected. as seamless as possible. basically
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Obviously I have a number of mainland renters with adult stores. I can swap land too right? To move my renters to ursula?
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: @ Jack: the thing in beta grid is active here to for adult* option in age-verification?
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Oh very cool Jack!
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Now will the land have to be owened by an individual or can it be owned by a group?
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ursula (working title only) is a couple of hundred regions in size overall, but only a portion will be live to begin with.. maybe 50 or 70 regions
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: O.o
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: because i have noticed with my alt in test, if i don't have make my age verification i don't have accès to adult setting in rating right?
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Is that all you are expecting to swap land?
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Did I ever tell anyone about my 50 sim pornography store?
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, without looking at the details, that sounds right
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Elan, if I were you, I'd give the buyer bots a vacation for a while, once that swapping starts.
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: No, if you were me you'd immediately start 400 adult businesses
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We'll deal with groups, depending on the accounts contributing tier (they are effectively the owners of the gorup land)
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: oh, i did that already. :p
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Here's a question for you: are you prepared to continue printing "Adult" land as long as it still sells?
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: IE, the proper way to deal with land speculators?
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Mainland is definitely going to zero. All those sims people HAVE to sell fast to avoid doubling up their tier costs? Ugh
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, it's hard to say but the surveys we did of the Mainland showed only a small percentage of parcels actually have adult content on them
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Ok, wait, one more question. What is the land swap thing going to start?
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Have to agree there. The economic impact of flipping so much land is going to be a hassle.
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: *When* not what
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, it'll grow according to the need for the migration, not just because we want to sell lots
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Because, personally, I bought Mature because I could do whatever I wanted to (within the existing ToS, that is). I think it is only fair that I have the same opportunity as anyone to move to Ursula, if I so wish it.
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: Speaking of doubling up, will there be a grace period to avoid increased tier fees durning the move?
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We still have to be very careful about the amount of land for sale
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: gotta zip - have fun all!
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Susie Chaffe|Susie Chaffe]]: votes with Talarus...
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, I expect it'll all start in June
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: by Mari, have fun!
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: tata Mari
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Bye Bye!!
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: Jack, it was announced by M linden that this month, Lindenlab would start publishing land data again. there are just a few hours left for the month to be over, but i still didn't see it, besides the the Q1 results, but that was not what he meant... Is this project postponed?
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: bye marianne
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Angela, we'll be advising people on how to handle their parcels so they don't double their tier
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: you even promised that too jack
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: great, htx. :-)
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: *thx
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dennis, I'd need to check on that but I believe we still plan to push data live again - I just don't know exactly when it'll be ready
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: well, M knew it
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: so
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I would really like to push a lot more data out
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Why not just turn on the old system again until then? Add a small footnote saying it could be inaccurate. We don't mind
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Jack, you didn't really answer what I was asking.
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Because I think it owuld give people a lot more assurance about the stability of the market
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: But the numbers we push out have to be accurate and very well explained
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: it has always been inacurate, so 6 months more wouldn't make the difference, would just be for the first time inacurate negative for lindenlab.
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Scenario: a few businesses/land owners get swapped for free, the rest of Ursula goes up for auction. prices for all parcels get pushed into the stratosphere.
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: the land market is better to be stable as you had not grow for 5 month
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, we discussed that but people just keep misinterpreting it and then making decisions on the back of the misunderstanding
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Depends, maybe LL could promise to print a new sim every time prices go over 10/sqm or something
*[11:26] VisitorMonitor: Si Lytton has entered store secondlife:///app/agent/7024f785-a39c-40e2-9524-d255e401fee4/about secondlife://Steamboat/185/73/88
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: what kind of "descisions " do they make?
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, that's what I am asking.
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: OK, it's fine Jack. I know you're not gonna bring it back.
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Are they willing to regulate the land market from supply-side economics again?
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Land Rental|Land Rental]] Si Lytton: Land Rental Si Lytton @ Steamboat 208, 62, 112 - Si Lytton paid L$1125. They now have 9 days, 0 hours, 59 minutes and 47 seconds remaining on their rental.
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: :) Elanthius. We will. I have at least 3 projects on the Land slate that are all about more data for residents in 2009
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Thing is talarus, the more AO land you print the lower AO land stays but you're going to destroy the regular mainland in the meantime
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: (Jack, sorry, I meant not bring back old data, I'm sure one day we'll see the new data too)
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: true about making decisions based upon faulty premise bit.
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: guess you forgot to set due dates for these projects *g*
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: So? I already expect mainland to go to pot from this.
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: do you have a ruls, for adult sim, i i have more of 30 sim, i need to respect a distance if i add with pg or mature sim?
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: It wouldn;t make sense for us to throw more adult land out than is needed
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Define "needed"
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: as in, required for the migration
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: By whom? You? or the residents?
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: You dont think others who dont qualify for the migration wont want to go to?
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: I'm thinking particularly of new businesses
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I'm thinking of existing businesses who want to have the same rights they do now.
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Those first to migrate get premium picks
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Erm.. excuse me.. "privileges"
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Oh sure Moon, and there will be auctions after the free period, but Tal seemed to suggest we would just push out all 200+ regions. Which isn't the way it will work at all
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Oh doh! I knew that sorry!
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: No, I am saying to keep the market supplied to avoid the effects of land speculation.
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Mainland prices would likely tank, even if it were a true swap and LL kept the swapped-out parcel off the auction queue. But with just doubling up the land... god knows what floor the prices will find.
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: As long as sims are selling for thousands of dollars, why stop?
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: The land we inherit on the older areas, we will look at improving by fixing parcelling, adding parks, trees and making larger parcels for auction
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I can't decide which is best. If you drip them out slowly people will never know when you will stop and they will constantly pay over the odds so they don't miss out. If you print them all at once there will be economic armageddon in the land market
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: zoning too?
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ahh okay Tal, I misunderstood
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jack, you won't inherit any older land, everyone will sell it, well anyone with any sense will
*[11:32] VisitorMonitor: albert Hanly has entered store secondlife:///app/agent/c7aa82e4-0ca7-4491-b8c3-6d13cde344d3/about secondlife://Steamboat/185/73/88
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Theoretically, the middle ground would be to give us a timeline of rollout. And then stick to the deadlines.
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I mean, I already expect to have to throw away my Mature mainland as it is.
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Not if its going to double their teirs Elanthius
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: [X sims, Y day]
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: It will never be worth what it was when I bought it, even in the realm of L$5-7/sqm
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: You could sell any parcel of any size right now for about L$2.7/sqm
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Right now true - but we will only have 9 days to move
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: No-one will abandon unless the market totally fails like some sort of virtual Iceland
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: and you know that during those nine days land prices will be near 0
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: But it should spring back pretty qucikly afterwards
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I suppose it depends on how much the land speculators want to take and hold while things settle back down again Elanthius
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]] looks for wood to knock on
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Well, I'll stop predicting the future because I definitely agree there's gonna be some crazy unpredictable stuff going down
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yay Capitalism!
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: Speculators can have a drastic effect. Just look at the real life encominity now.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Land speculators, naturally, will want to maximize profit from this. :p
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: not seeing that "spring back quickly" thing... with all that new land on the market
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: that's one of the probs i see with landbots. they keep the land prices low by releasing (selling) stuff at 3.2/sqm
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: Land needs to get back around that 5 L$ level again.. All of the planning around land to provide some incentive to premium members is more than 75% solved when land actually has a value.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: In this case, they'd be looking to short mainland and long AO land.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Well a bunch of it will drop off immediately Quie, as people abandon land in order to avoid paying double tiers
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: After the 2 biggest landowners besides myself get to move because they have adult content and advertise it publicly, a good chunk of it will be emptty and remains so
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: makes it tough for the average joes who are not playing in the real estate market.
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Blah.. *empty *remin
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: *remain
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: landbots do the same thing that their human owners would do themselves.
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: yes, if it gets abandoned to the Governor... but if it gets sold for a song, it will just keep rattling around at the bottom of the market, pulling everything down with it.
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: That's crazy Angela, do you think they're buying land at L$5 and selling it at L$3.2 just to crush the market?
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Automation is not the cause of market fallout.
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Oh very true Qie - didnt think of htat
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: People not willing to pay more when everyone else is selling for less.
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Qie: and cut and cut and cut as it changes hands
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: good point, Elan. :(
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: A friend of mine paid over L$10/sqm for 16k sqm of land. He had to sell it for L$3.5/sqm, because it would have never sold at L$5-6
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: did anyone have anything else they wanted to raise? do shout up if you do
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: They are also unwilling to hang onto land and improve it and stay on it when there is little loss suffered by simply abandoning land. You make more slums than improvements.
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: of course not elan. people who have very large parcels, sim size, even, sell low bc they need out for whatever reason.
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I dunno, Jack. I would like to believe that LL is going to do right in all this, but all I am seeing is a textbook set up for EPIC FAIL.
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah, it's not clear what will happen when land isn't worth anything. No incentive to keep it or buy it at all.
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: so, they buy them and cut them up. watch the sales, prices start edging up to around 4/sqm, then boom, an influx of 3.2/sqm
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I wish some Linden with a clue would get his PR hat on and sit down with us and give us the truth.
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Oh, thaht's kinda me doing that but it's not for the reasons you think.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: i still see massive amount of traffic bots, seems lindenlab can't handle it themselves, why did you write so clear "we don't need you to fill an abuse report". I do think its abuse, and i do think you fail to solve it on your own.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: This has probably been answered in the blog but I've mised the answer Jack - if a resident simply wants to move their home to Urusula - not have a business on it but just because they want to live there - will they be eligible for the swap?
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, hopefully you'll be here talking to us afterwards so we can pick it apart. Lets face it, this is new territory and something we're going to learn from however it goes
*[11:39] VisitorMonitor: serge Tendaze has entered store secondlife:///app/agent/f9c26a1c-77dc-478b-af45-c2839263afef/about secondlife://Steamboat/185/73/88
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: well, it will take them time to clear out the traffic bots. *laughs*
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, what I don't understand is why you aren't dealing with us "picking it apart" BEFORE it turns into a mass train wreck.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I think it's going to be challenging to get the migration through, because we don't know how many people will apply for that.. but I think it will settle quite quickly after that point
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]: Jack, my group runs a communiy on Mainland. We work hard to make our area a nicer place and we accomplished quite a lot. You said that LL plans to use recovered land to improve Mainland.
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Who wants to stick around to talk about a train wreck after the fact?
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]: Would you also take into consideration selling some of that land to communities such as ours?
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: It's kinda obvious and pointless after that.
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Indigo, most defintiely
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: "Yup, it's a train wreck, alright"
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: ack spellos sorry
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]: great, thanks :)
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: hmmm, that's a great idea. have an additional period for offering land to people who don't qual for the free, but would like to buy for a fair val. then, open it up to auctions.
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Jack... couldnt you set up a preliminary survey of sorts and just ask peple who are intending to apply to put intheir land numbers - just as a preliminary 'we'd like to get a count' sort of a thing
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, i'm not sensing that you're a giant fan of this. :) But then i could be misreading the signals hehe
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: If you didnt make people stick to the decision I dont think residents would mind
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: He's being very subtle Jack
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Oh Jack, any chance whatsoever you guys won't increase the price of Homesteads at exactly the same time the Aporncalypse takes place?
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, I just call it as I see it. Show me something that tells me something.. ANYting different.
*[11:43] VisitorMonitor: Ribery7 Frimon has entered store secondlife:///app/agent/52885fd0-ae56-419b-8966-78928b052584/about secondlife://Steamboat/185/73/88
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I'm not unconvinceable, but PR spin, "statistics", and complete failure to answer questions isn't "doing it" for me.
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, I think the timing will be earlier for the adult stuff.
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: June 1st for the estate repricing right?
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: the homestead increase will be a bigger apocalypse then the adult one. approx 7000 sims gone in a few months.
*[11:44] VisitorMonitor: Rupert Etzel has entered store secondlife:///app/agent/d75b533f-e9e2-43d0-afb3-1a6cc9b6171a/about secondlife://Steamboat/185/73/88
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I'll be keeping mine Dennis. Not buying anymore any time soon, but keeping the ones I have
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: July 1st Elanthius
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Ah, my mistake
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: See, the thing is, even though OpenSpaces were a huge debacle, I can understand and (somewhat) support what is happening with them.
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: you might keep them, but many will not elanthius
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: That's actually an interesting observation, Elan.
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Land Rental|Land Rental]] Rupert Etzel: Land Rental Rupert Etzel @ Steamboat 188, 42, 118 - Rupert Etzel paid L$7716. They now have 33 days, 1 hour, 33 minutes and 11 seconds remaining on their rental.
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: i kept mines too last time, but saw thousands others dissapear
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: You might as well write off 2009 it's going to be a disaster for LL with all this stuff.
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I have yet to see anything to convince me that this "adult content" push is necessary, let alone the way it is being handled.
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Just call it a land bailout package. It's easier to remember that way.
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah well obviously Dennis, just look at M's graphs, full prim sims stable since January or earlier but Homesteads we lost about half of them or something
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: hmmm... suppose Homestead exiles will be interested in cheap ex-pr0no Mainland?
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yeah, they'll be able to practically get it for free.
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: one way to get those Premium numbers up. ;)
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: They'll pick up free Mature land on mainland. At L$1/sqm or whatever it'll be cheaper tier and cheaper buy price than most estates
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: yeah, i think too, with bulk option in 1.23 its very important :)
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: Naa...each time the encomity of SL goes up, they create a new project to try to distroy it. Examples, sim price increase, AC stuff.
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: :-)
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Elan: And that's why the speculator's angle is relevant. Though, shouldn't this make you happy? :p
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Fontte: sure, I'm hoping to make a killing on this Ao thing. I'm pretty sure there'll never be enough so I just need to buy tons and people will be begging me for it
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: It's not a case of trying to destroy...more a case of squeezing more juice out of the lemon!!!
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: It's a big, one-sided market flux that's going to make a lot of people rich.
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I think one big question on my mind is this: presuming it turns out to be nearly as bad as the worst we're expecting, what is LL's "backup strategy"?
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah, I was speaking earlier from the perspective of the general resident. For me personally this could be way awesome
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]] nodnods
*[11:48] VisitorMonitor: Inn Box has entered store secondlife:///app/agent/038abe67-9a7d-43b8-8636-35d3343c468e/about secondlife://Steamboat/185/73/88
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: you really think they know what a strategy is tal :)
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: What are you going to say to us when this thing goes completely off the rails?
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: oops?
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: If you all haven't had a discussion about what to do when it does, I think you better plan one, and soon.
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: "We'll sell you your land back at 1.5 times markup?"
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: What's the worst case scenario Talarus? Lose half the residents, mainland prices are near 0 but people are still paying tier, estates still largely exist. Then just build from there. It won't be all that bad
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: as usual, they will say its all fine. and better then expected even
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Well, the Governor could decide to start buying Mainland.
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: this isn't a decision that is going to be reversed, we feel it's very important that we make this change. if the actual implementation goes awry, then of course we'll make changes as needed to get through that but fundamentally it will still happen
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: As far as I can tell, we're looking at a whole lot of short term market flux. Elan actually had a good point, about the timing of the Homestead repricing.
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: With half the residents, half the mainland will likely go abandoned, with no one paying tier on it.
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: and not only that...for the first time they will have real competiion showing up this year
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: If I was playing the numbers, I'd bet that'd push a lot of people back to mainland pricing.
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, the thing is, if the implementation goes awry, and the only fix is reversing it, are you willing to live with it being "broken" going forward?
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: If so, that tells me what I needed to know.
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Half I would think is conservative....age verification will be the new black....and Ursula (Project Name ) the new cash cow
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Thus setting up a terrific profit for anyone looking to buy parcels cheap after people start the move to Ursula.
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Just saying. :p
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: What could possibly happen that would make it necessary to reverse the migration? Can't think of anything.
*[11:52] VisitorMonitor: Rupert Etzel has entered store secondlife:///app/agent/d75b533f-e9e2-43d0-afb3-1a6cc9b6171a/about secondlife://Steamboat/185/73/88
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: because, I am telling you now, I'm ready to press the "Abandon" button right now and walk away.
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah, so what, oldbies quit all the time. It's never as earth shattering as the oldbie thinks
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: If it is THAT broken, and you STILL insist that it is the "right path", then what's the point in staying?
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: you tlak like a linden elan lol
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I never said it was "earth shattering".
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Point it, I don't think I would be the only one, and it won't all be "oldbies" doing it.
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Some folks are already throwing in the towel.
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, yo udon't know how this will go, i really do think that we need to go into the process and judge it as it unfolds - not weeks before it has even started
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: and what will you do if it fails....Tal was asking for a backup
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I don't need to "know" how it will go to do a risk analysis of what you are doing.
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I know people are concerned, and when there are big changes like this it can be really difficult, but Second Life has changed hugely and often over the last few years.
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Well, speaking personally, my gripe is whether you guys have inspected the speculator angle, and calculated out what the market will do when you start dumping large swaths of sims.
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: is there an expectation Jack that age verification will be carried out by the vast majority of new joins?
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: As long as you keep rollout in manageable bites, it should be OK.
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Not gonna lie, I'm quite excited about speculating on this stuff
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: So, Jack, CONVINCE me, or at least help me CONVINCE MYSELF that my risk analysis is flawed.
*[11:56] VisitorMonitor: Wild Abbot has entered store secondlife:///app/agent/936a5fa8-72b4-4a75-a3da-0f2165a83844/about secondlife://Steamboat/185/73/88
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: @jack: i have noticed some interesting changement or some bad changement, but its the ruls of evolution now :)
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I keep asking for that, and you and Blondin, and every other Linden are just handing me more rope.
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Driftwood, for people coming in they wil have a huge grid to explore even without being verified, but if they *choose* to explore the adult areas then they will be able to verify and do that
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: A huge, EMPTY grid to explore
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I like "will be able" instead of "absolutely must". it's removing options and freedom
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: what percentage is currently age verified?
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Zero
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: And payment information used will still count toward age verification yes?
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: There's no way to verify age.
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: with assurance
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: That's definitely the verbiage that pisses me off most. This isn't about adding options or giving people freedom, you're taking away freedom and adding restrictions
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: As an aside, I hope this means you'll have a more strict policy on banlines, considering people will have fewer reasons for "privacy" on the mainland. :P
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Agreed Tal and thats my point......i know we should not judge but a migration would not be my guess...more exodus
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: I've tried to age verfify. I'me 40+ and failed.
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, there are 200 adult regions and we don't expect to use all of those for a while. the grid is tens of thousands of regions.. how would the grid possibly be empty?
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: That makes no sense at all
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: And yeah, I agree on the verbiage.
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: just put payment info in and you are verified
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: By people like me leaving because we're fed up with LL's bullshit
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Fontte: in 1.23 viewer, you can make the banlines invisible. unfortunately, vehicles still see them. :(
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: all premiums already have payment info with us, and they are the Mainland owners
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Well, if you give away 50 and auction them off in the right way prices will hit L$50/sqm and of course you won't use them all up. But if you do it a different way they will immediately be full and people will be begging for more
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: One of my consistent gripes with the blog, and Linden interaction in general these days, is it's filled with buzzwords and spin. We'd like honest assessment and discussion, not lawyerspeak. :D
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: JIRA that Qie
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I have a half sim now. It ain't much, but it is a half sim more of empty space when I am gone.
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: hehehe
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: Qie, yes jira it, with clear reprod i need for test: )
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: I am missing something...Ursula is purely for business....not for residential??
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Wait, scratch my last statement. No matter how many you print, if you auction them in any reasonable way you will sell every single one
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: How will you know if you don't need anymore?
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, the number of people who have told me they are very upset about this is less than 10 (and I get a huge number of IMs). If this is as unpopular as you think then it's not reflected in the support calls, tickets, etc. We know that for some people this isn't a popular move, but that doesn't mean everyone
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: If you auction a system and people bid on it then is that a sign you need to auction another?
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Less than 10?? O.o Read the forums much??
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: you really have to read the forums jack!!!
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jack, come on there's more than 10 people in THIS ROOM that are very upset about it
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: lol
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Jack... dearest... I'm very upset about this *g*
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Speaking of the forums. I'd really like the old RSS link to be re-enabled. :P
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: you are now talking about mainland owners, but estate sims will have to be flagged adult too from time to time... and people want to buy their sex poseballs, so they need to get there somehow jack. and yes, they come ALSO for other things then sex, just the question is how many come for everything but sex.
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Do you want to publicly announced that you're tallying dissent? I can have your inbox full in a few hours.
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I do read the forums, I was talking about the direct IMs I get. As i said, I know some people are unhappy about it but that doesn't mean everyone is
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: So I can do some parsing on all the topics without reading all the BAAAAWWWWWW threads. :D
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Jack, people don't KNOW to tell you that.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: *I* haven't IMed you about it.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: So I guess I am not in that "less than 10" figure?
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: sorry jack, i need to leave for french localization meeting , but i'm back in next week! :)
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: it's true: I've now heard from one person in-world who supports it, and there were a couple posting on the forums.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: I personally know of three sim owner that are VERY UPSET on how the AC is being done.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: geeez....most people are unhappy about it jack
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: See? that's what I am talking about.. CLUELESS!!
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Come on jack, that's crazy. I don't randomly IM Lindens to tell them I'm unhappy about something. I post on the forums or the blog and hope you guys read it
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: you just dont know the market !!
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Have you considered, y'know.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: or what is really going on in sl
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Starting a vote thread on it? :P
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: Jack, are you disusaional? Oh wait...nevermind..
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: 2 estate owners, 3 sims owners, myself and about 20 residents. not happy.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: On the forums there were over 6000 posts and maybe three posters were actively for the change
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: So we had a somewhat accurate number of for and against?
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Jack, announce the policy on the login screen and take a poll.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Go on. I DARE you.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: yes good idea tal
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ack, sadly I have to go to my next meeting. I think this will be, ultimately, a good change and I'm happy to own that it will be difficult for some people
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: The fact is, this sort of change is traditionally seen as negative. It pisses people off to have to move their established businesses.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: I mean, come on.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I think you will get a few more than "less than 10".
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: And we'll do all we can to make it less difficult.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Look at all the .xxx legislation that failed.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: HUGE negative backlash.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I'll tell everyone to IM you and tell you they are unhappy
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: LEss dificult, bah
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Or happy as the case may be
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: and i guess we'll soon know how it goes :)
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: OK. That's all I needed to know. Thanks, Jack. :)
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: If you're going to go ahead with this change, at the very least be honest about it. :)
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: I only message Jack for chocolate.
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Anyone interested in half a sim of Mature mainland?
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: im jack for free lindens XD
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: sorry to cut out mid conversation, i feel like these could be 3 hours and we'd still not be done
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: Thanks Jack!!
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: take care jack
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: tah
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: true!
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: jack :)
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Welcome to meetings. :D
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: thanks, Jack.
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Have a good one.
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hehe
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: bye jack, and thanks! :-)
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]: where, Talarus? :)
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Great Pubnico
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Bye Jack
</div></div>

<div id='box' style='text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em;'>
Generated by [http://kuraiko.zeitenwerk.de/wikify.php SL Chatlog Wikify]
</div>

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-04-30

2009-04-30T19:41:21Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: New page: <div id='box'> == List of Attendees == <div style='padding: 0.5em'> *Jack Linden *Moon Corrigible *Qie Niangao *[[User:Ta...

<div id='box'>
== List of Attendees ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]
*[[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]
*[[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]
*[[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]
*[[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]
*[[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]
*[[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]
*[[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]
*[[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]
*[[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]
*[[User:Gonzales Martinek|Gonzales Martinek]]
*[[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]
*[[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]
*[[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]
*[[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]
*[[User:
|
]]
*[[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]
*[[User:Susie Chaffe|Susie Chaffe]]
*[[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]
*[[User:Land Rental|Land Rental]]
*[[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]
*[[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]
*[[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]
</div></div>

<div id='box'>
== Transcript ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hey folks!
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: The last time I asked Blue seemed to think that move wouldnt be a big deal at all - which sort of made me hyperventilate - lol
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: greetings, Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Blondin is essentially a PR toadie.
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Hey Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Hey there Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Hi, Jack!
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: hi jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Hi Jack!
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah, well at this point any intelligent person would have realised that the SL residents do not get better like Voltron when they hook up.
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Hi, Jack.
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Gonzales Martinek|Gonzales Martinek]]: Hi Jack.
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Hello Jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Generally, someone steps up to try to be the public face of a bad policy. No one gets thrust into that role.
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Now that's an image, Elan
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: hello :)
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Oh come on Talarus, people do whatever they get told to do. Nobody steps up out of nowhere and volunteers to get shouted at all day long
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: The only problem is that Blondin has made himself out to be an architect by many of his responses, so I think he knows a lot more than he is telling, but it doesn't matter.
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: That is, unless you work in customer service. :)
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: If someone told me to sell this pile of crap, I would say "fire me".
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: True we have bigger fish to fry... Hi Jack! - ehhehee
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I didn't really get that impression Talarus, about him being an architect
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: this sounds like a fascinating conversation already!
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: what did i miss?
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]] risks a run for irn bru and hula hoops
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Talkin about the Ursula stuff
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: We're trying to decide if Blondin has any influence over the adult thing whatsoever or if he's just a sacrificial lamb
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: you should read the forum jack :)
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I did. He has said too many things from his own personal stance and used them as answers for me to believe he ISN'T an architect.
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Either that or a masochist.
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: mmmm Irn Bru!! nectar of the gods
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: He may not be THE architect, but he is certainly one of them.
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Elan - the "word list" thing was a big issue when i saw it. After being in meetings where B and Cyn both made it clear they wanted to avoid making the same old errors of word lists...
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: A week later, "poof," here's a dirty word list"
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: Jack, did you already started to take actions against traffic bots?
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Blondin is a part of the team that is handling that project, especially the public communications. But the project itself is a company one, not his
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, Mari, LL is about repeating history instead of learning from it, so I am sure that fits.
*[11:05] VisitorMonitor: Dimitris Snoodle has entered store secondlife:///app/agent/6d516ef9-55d9-45d9-81f0-0e29daf091ea/about secondlife://Steamboat/185/73/88
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yeah, but there are "key players", who are the ones architecting it, Jack.
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: The word list thing will be more effective than people think. You can't advertise V14gra if no-one knows how to search for it
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Tal - true. It's the AOL "Breast" fiasco I had to face back in '95
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: The "Company" doesn't do ANYthing on its own.
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, if you mean senior staff.. then yes.. and that would be Director level and above
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]] covets an org chart
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: but blondin is not able to handle that on its own
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Word lists *never* work. There's always a fatal flaw
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Directors aren't the only ones who can be architects. Often architecture is delegated to lesser members of a teamm.
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Especially when it gets to the details.
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Blondin is helping with communications. This was a very big decision as you know, and not something that any one person would own in that sense. We have project managers, engineers, PR and marketing and may more people involved
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Honestly I dont give a flying footnote who is in charge - I just want to wake up and find it was all a terrible, horrible dream
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Blondin is one of many people involved, he just happens to be the one in front of the camera more than others
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Anyway.. I don't care all that much anymore. I'm just back after 10 days of vacation away from this place, determining if it is worth staying or not.
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Depends on the structural mentality, actually. There seems to be about a 50/50 split these days between companies where the directors provide architecture, and cut tasks up for lower staff, and the other where Senior Engineers provide those decisions straight to management.
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Either way, it usually comes down to a small group of people making the decision.
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Anyway, land stuff. What's going on with the land cutting policy? Seems like not much action later. That's the trouble with this policy stuff you have to actively keep doing it forever and ever or it stops working
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: I guess we all would be interested in seeing who's championing the adult stuff internalling. :)
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: There was a time, where you sold yourself as just a "front man", like Blondin, Jack. :)
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Internally, too.
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: (Need my caffeine...)
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: I wish I felt that even a 1/8th of the feedback level of the 'bot policy was going into the thoughts behind Ursula. Feedback on itfeels so much like shouting at the clouds
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: About this time last year when we first started coming to you with adfarmer/extortionist issues.
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, last time I reported that we were at about 14,500 16m parcels for sale, down from 16k a couple of weeks before that. We're now at 12k and still falling
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Really?
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah, everyone loves the bot policy on it's face. Hopefully there'll be quicker action on that than the cutting thing. Although, you know, cutting thing is going OK, just not super fast
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Is that 12k for sale 16s? Or 12k total 16s?
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I think how you see this happening depends on where you look :) but it's going fine
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: 12k for sale
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: the total number of them is falling by a similar proportion
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Any idea if people are just taking them off the market and hoping you guys get bored waiting?
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: There's a LOT more that aren't for sale
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: How many of those 12k 16s are owned by the top extortionists?
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: What's the average price range on those that are for sale now?
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: some are being given back to us, in exchange for large parcels. some are being left, some sold for far lower sums (sometimes to bots)
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Go bots!
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: was glad to see the last 16s cleared out of the Shermerville/Blumfield area finally
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: I finally saw some change near me: Plandz finally caved. (Now, if only Primlands would follow, it would make a big dent.)
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dytska, I don't have the exact count but I expect more than half
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: what about traffic bots.....did you start to take actions against them?
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: osrrym style rezing for me :)
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: sorry*
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: and i wouldn't cal them that :)
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I've been buying stuff off Primlands, but he said he just owned too much land and had to dump some
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, what would you call them?
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: yik, i need one other coffee :)
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: "Ex-extortionists?"
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Equinox.. as per the blog, where we see Land bots causing problems we will deal with them then
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Jack - is there anything specific in place regarding temp rezzers at this point? Curious if there is a point where they are known to impact mainland sim performance.
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: thx Jack, for your decision about this problem of bots :)
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: (Referreing specifcially to used to keep somethign "permanentely rezzed")
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: in which way causing problems?
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: lag
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: last night i saw a sim with 121 avis on it
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Marianne, not sure. I don't think we see many issues from them unless people are rezzing whole houses continually
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: which does happen sometimes
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Temp rezzing avatars?
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Equinox - in cases where, for example, a person has a 400+ prim house on a 512m plot
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: found in 1 hour checking 5.000 bots online
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: yes, exactly that Marianne
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Ya, got one of those near Shermerville.
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: thanks Yann
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I think the script limits will fix a lot of the temp rez problems. Maybe anyway
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: thats works marianne if the object bonus is according :)
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: There was a disightion made about bots?
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: decision?
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Atechwolf, yes.. a recent blog post on the Land blog
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I noted that that blog post was never a "featured" post.
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: @ jack, because if i look some region with abusif bot, i have too many lag, its a very great decision for now :)
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Didn't even know it was there until someone mentioned it.
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Temp rezzers are a problem, but in general, rezzing any larger build, permanent or temporary has problems, since server 1.25
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, yeah.. it was supposed to be but there was another Featured one they wanted to leave up
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: people seem to have found it anyway hehe
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: There's a limit?
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jack, when the adult thing goes down what will be the mechanism by which people get to move? It seemed in the audio thingy that people would be given land in Ursula AND get to keep their existing parcel or they'd just be asked to sell it on the general market. What's the specifics?
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: yeah, it's weird. I hardly ever read any of the "featured" posts; the good stuff is always underneath.
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: decision, typo demaon has me today.
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: who made the decision that 128sm parcels will not show in search anymore ?
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: 128sqm parcels never showed in search. Or so says the wiki
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Now it's just impossible to try to list them anyway
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: hello Asterion! :D
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: I wish I could list all the blogs posts on one page.
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: i see..so you could list them and they were not in search
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, for those eligible for the free move period, if they want to sell their parcel at that time rather than hand it to us then we're fine with that, or they can hand it to us by abandoning it
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: If they want to keep their existing plot, but clean the content, then that would be okay too
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: holy cow!
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: So it's not a land swap per se. You're just giving free land to people with adult stores?
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: About 50 sims worth of free land being given out?
*
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I hope you all have lots of land in Ursula to swap.
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: but with extra tier, folks will dump that land for L$0.0001/m2, if they have to.
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We're making the movement of the content, for those most affected. as seamless as possible. basically
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Obviously I have a number of mainland renters with adult stores. I can swap land too right? To move my renters to ursula?
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: @ Jack: the thing in beta grid is active here to for adult* option in age-verification?
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Oh very cool Jack!
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Now will the land have to be owened by an individual or can it be owned by a group?
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ursula (working title only) is a couple of hundred regions in size overall, but only a portion will be live to begin with.. maybe 50 or 70 regions
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: O.o
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: because i have noticed with my alt in test, if i don't have make my age verification i don't have accès to adult setting in rating right?
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Is that all you are expecting to swap land?
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Did I ever tell anyone about my 50 sim pornography store?
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, without looking at the details, that sounds right
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Elan, if I were you, I'd give the buyer bots a vacation for a while, once that swapping starts.
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: No, if you were me you'd immediately start 400 adult businesses
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We'll deal with groups, depending on the accounts contributing tier (they are effectively the owners of the gorup land)
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: oh, i did that already. :p
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Here's a question for you: are you prepared to continue printing "Adult" land as long as it still sells?
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: IE, the proper way to deal with land speculators?
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Mainland is definitely going to zero. All those sims people HAVE to sell fast to avoid doubling up their tier costs? Ugh
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, it's hard to say but the surveys we did of the Mainland showed only a small percentage of parcels actually have adult content on them
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Ok, wait, one more question. What is the land swap thing going to start?
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Have to agree there. The economic impact of flipping so much land is going to be a hassle.
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: *When* not what
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, it'll grow according to the need for the migration, not just because we want to sell lots
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Because, personally, I bought Mature because I could do whatever I wanted to (within the existing ToS, that is). I think it is only fair that I have the same opportunity as anyone to move to Ursula, if I so wish it.
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: Speaking of doubling up, will there be a grace period to avoid increased tier fees durning the move?
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We still have to be very careful about the amount of land for sale
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: gotta zip - have fun all!
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Susie Chaffe|Susie Chaffe]]: votes with Talarus...
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, I expect it'll all start in June
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: by Mari, have fun!
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: tata Mari
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Bye Bye!!
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: Jack, it was announced by M linden that this month, Lindenlab would start publishing land data again. there are just a few hours left for the month to be over, but i still didn't see it, besides the the Q1 results, but that was not what he meant... Is this project postponed?
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: bye marianne
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Angela, we'll be advising people on how to handle their parcels so they don't double their tier
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: you even promised that too jack
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: great, htx. :-)
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: *thx
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dennis, I'd need to check on that but I believe we still plan to push data live again - I just don't know exactly when it'll be ready
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: well, M knew it
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: so
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I would really like to push a lot more data out
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Why not just turn on the old system again until then? Add a small footnote saying it could be inaccurate. We don't mind
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Jack, you didn't really answer what I was asking.
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Because I think it owuld give people a lot more assurance about the stability of the market
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: But the numbers we push out have to be accurate and very well explained
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: it has always been inacurate, so 6 months more wouldn't make the difference, would just be for the first time inacurate negative for lindenlab.
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Scenario: a few businesses/land owners get swapped for free, the rest of Ursula goes up for auction. prices for all parcels get pushed into the stratosphere.
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: the land market is better to be stable as you had not grow for 5 month
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, we discussed that but people just keep misinterpreting it and then making decisions on the back of the misunderstanding
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Depends, maybe LL could promise to print a new sim every time prices go over 10/sqm or something
*[11:26] VisitorMonitor: Si Lytton has entered store secondlife:///app/agent/7024f785-a39c-40e2-9524-d255e401fee4/about secondlife://Steamboat/185/73/88
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: what kind of "descisions " do they make?
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, that's what I am asking.
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: OK, it's fine Jack. I know you're not gonna bring it back.
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Are they willing to regulate the land market from supply-side economics again?
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Land Rental|Land Rental]] Si Lytton: Land Rental Si Lytton @ Steamboat 208, 62, 112 - Si Lytton paid L$1125. They now have 9 days, 0 hours, 59 minutes and 47 seconds remaining on their rental.
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: :) Elanthius. We will. I have at least 3 projects on the Land slate that are all about more data for residents in 2009
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Thing is talarus, the more AO land you print the lower AO land stays but you're going to destroy the regular mainland in the meantime
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: (Jack, sorry, I meant not bring back old data, I'm sure one day we'll see the new data too)
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: true about making decisions based upon faulty premise bit.
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: guess you forgot to set due dates for these projects *g*
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: So? I already expect mainland to go to pot from this.
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: do you have a ruls, for adult sim, i i have more of 30 sim, i need to respect a distance if i add with pg or mature sim?
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: It wouldn;t make sense for us to throw more adult land out than is needed
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Define "needed"
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: as in, required for the migration
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: By whom? You? or the residents?
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: You dont think others who dont qualify for the migration wont want to go to?
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: I'm thinking particularly of new businesses
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I'm thinking of existing businesses who want to have the same rights they do now.
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Those first to migrate get premium picks
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Erm.. excuse me.. "privileges"
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Oh sure Moon, and there will be auctions after the free period, but Tal seemed to suggest we would just push out all 200+ regions. Which isn't the way it will work at all
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Oh doh! I knew that sorry!
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: No, I am saying to keep the market supplied to avoid the effects of land speculation.
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Mainland prices would likely tank, even if it were a true swap and LL kept the swapped-out parcel off the auction queue. But with just doubling up the land... god knows what floor the prices will find.
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: As long as sims are selling for thousands of dollars, why stop?
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: The land we inherit on the older areas, we will look at improving by fixing parcelling, adding parks, trees and making larger parcels for auction
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I can't decide which is best. If you drip them out slowly people will never know when you will stop and they will constantly pay over the odds so they don't miss out. If you print them all at once there will be economic armageddon in the land market
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: zoning too?
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ahh okay Tal, I misunderstood
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jack, you won't inherit any older land, everyone will sell it, well anyone with any sense will
*[11:32] VisitorMonitor: albert Hanly has entered store secondlife:///app/agent/c7aa82e4-0ca7-4491-b8c3-6d13cde344d3/about secondlife://Steamboat/185/73/88
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Theoretically, the middle ground would be to give us a timeline of rollout. And then stick to the deadlines.
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I mean, I already expect to have to throw away my Mature mainland as it is.
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Not if its going to double their teirs Elanthius
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: [X sims, Y day]
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: It will never be worth what it was when I bought it, even in the realm of L$5-7/sqm
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: You could sell any parcel of any size right now for about L$2.7/sqm
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Right now true - but we will only have 9 days to move
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: No-one will abandon unless the market totally fails like some sort of virtual Iceland
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: and you know that during those nine days land prices will be near 0
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: But it should spring back pretty qucikly afterwards
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I suppose it depends on how much the land speculators want to take and hold while things settle back down again Elanthius
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]] looks for wood to knock on
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Well, I'll stop predicting the future because I definitely agree there's gonna be some crazy unpredictable stuff going down
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yay Capitalism!
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: Speculators can have a drastic effect. Just look at the real life encominity now.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Land speculators, naturally, will want to maximize profit from this. :p
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: not seeing that "spring back quickly" thing... with all that new land on the market
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: that's one of the probs i see with landbots. they keep the land prices low by releasing (selling) stuff at 3.2/sqm
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: Land needs to get back around that 5 L$ level again.. All of the planning around land to provide some incentive to premium members is more than 75% solved when land actually has a value.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: In this case, they'd be looking to short mainland and long AO land.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Well a bunch of it will drop off immediately Quie, as people abandon land in order to avoid paying double tiers
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: After the 2 biggest landowners besides myself get to move because they have adult content and advertise it publicly, a good chunk of it will be emptty and remains so
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: makes it tough for the average joes who are not playing in the real estate market.
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Blah.. *empty *remin
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: *remain
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: landbots do the same thing that their human owners would do themselves.
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: yes, if it gets abandoned to the Governor... but if it gets sold for a song, it will just keep rattling around at the bottom of the market, pulling everything down with it.
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: That's crazy Angela, do you think they're buying land at L$5 and selling it at L$3.2 just to crush the market?
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Automation is not the cause of market fallout.
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Oh very true Qie - didnt think of htat
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: People not willing to pay more when everyone else is selling for less.
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Qie: and cut and cut and cut as it changes hands
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: good point, Elan. :(
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: A friend of mine paid over L$10/sqm for 16k sqm of land. He had to sell it for L$3.5/sqm, because it would have never sold at L$5-6
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: did anyone have anything else they wanted to raise? do shout up if you do
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: They are also unwilling to hang onto land and improve it and stay on it when there is little loss suffered by simply abandoning land. You make more slums than improvements.
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: of course not elan. people who have very large parcels, sim size, even, sell low bc they need out for whatever reason.
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I dunno, Jack. I would like to believe that LL is going to do right in all this, but all I am seeing is a textbook set up for EPIC FAIL.
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah, it's not clear what will happen when land isn't worth anything. No incentive to keep it or buy it at all.
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: so, they buy them and cut them up. watch the sales, prices start edging up to around 4/sqm, then boom, an influx of 3.2/sqm
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I wish some Linden with a clue would get his PR hat on and sit down with us and give us the truth.
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Oh, thaht's kinda me doing that but it's not for the reasons you think.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: i still see massive amount of traffic bots, seems lindenlab can't handle it themselves, why did you write so clear "we don't need you to fill an abuse report". I do think its abuse, and i do think you fail to solve it on your own.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: This has probably been answered in the blog but I've mised the answer Jack - if a resident simply wants to move their home to Urusula - not have a business on it but just because they want to live there - will they be eligible for the swap?
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, hopefully you'll be here talking to us afterwards so we can pick it apart. Lets face it, this is new territory and something we're going to learn from however it goes
*[11:39] VisitorMonitor: serge Tendaze has entered store secondlife:///app/agent/f9c26a1c-77dc-478b-af45-c2839263afef/about secondlife://Steamboat/185/73/88
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: well, it will take them time to clear out the traffic bots. *laughs*
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, what I don't understand is why you aren't dealing with us "picking it apart" BEFORE it turns into a mass train wreck.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I think it's going to be challenging to get the migration through, because we don't know how many people will apply for that.. but I think it will settle quite quickly after that point
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]: Jack, my group runs a communiy on Mainland. We work hard to make our area a nicer place and we accomplished quite a lot. You said that LL plans to use recovered land to improve Mainland.
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Who wants to stick around to talk about a train wreck after the fact?
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]: Would you also take into consideration selling some of that land to communities such as ours?
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: It's kinda obvious and pointless after that.
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Indigo, most defintiely
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: "Yup, it's a train wreck, alright"
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: ack spellos sorry
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]: great, thanks :)
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: hmmm, that's a great idea. have an additional period for offering land to people who don't qual for the free, but would like to buy for a fair val. then, open it up to auctions.
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Jack... couldnt you set up a preliminary survey of sorts and just ask peple who are intending to apply to put intheir land numbers - just as a preliminary 'we'd like to get a count' sort of a thing
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, i'm not sensing that you're a giant fan of this. :) But then i could be misreading the signals hehe
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: If you didnt make people stick to the decision I dont think residents would mind
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: He's being very subtle Jack
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Oh Jack, any chance whatsoever you guys won't increase the price of Homesteads at exactly the same time the Aporncalypse takes place?
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, I just call it as I see it. Show me something that tells me something.. ANYting different.
*[11:43] VisitorMonitor: Ribery7 Frimon has entered store secondlife:///app/agent/52885fd0-ae56-419b-8966-78928b052584/about secondlife://Steamboat/185/73/88
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I'm not unconvinceable, but PR spin, "statistics", and complete failure to answer questions isn't "doing it" for me.
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius, I think the timing will be earlier for the adult stuff.
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: June 1st for the estate repricing right?
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: the homestead increase will be a bigger apocalypse then the adult one. approx 7000 sims gone in a few months.
*[11:44] VisitorMonitor: Rupert Etzel has entered store secondlife:///app/agent/d75b533f-e9e2-43d0-afb3-1a6cc9b6171a/about secondlife://Steamboat/185/73/88
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I'll be keeping mine Dennis. Not buying anymore any time soon, but keeping the ones I have
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: July 1st Elanthius
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Ah, my mistake
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: See, the thing is, even though OpenSpaces were a huge debacle, I can understand and (somewhat) support what is happening with them.
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: you might keep them, but many will not elanthius
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: That's actually an interesting observation, Elan.
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Land Rental|Land Rental]] Rupert Etzel: Land Rental Rupert Etzel @ Steamboat 188, 42, 118 - Rupert Etzel paid L$7716. They now have 33 days, 1 hour, 33 minutes and 11 seconds remaining on their rental.
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: i kept mines too last time, but saw thousands others dissapear
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: You might as well write off 2009 it's going to be a disaster for LL with all this stuff.
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I have yet to see anything to convince me that this "adult content" push is necessary, let alone the way it is being handled.
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Just call it a land bailout package. It's easier to remember that way.
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah well obviously Dennis, just look at M's graphs, full prim sims stable since January or earlier but Homesteads we lost about half of them or something
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: hmmm... suppose Homestead exiles will be interested in cheap ex-pr0no Mainland?
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yeah, they'll be able to practically get it for free.
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: one way to get those Premium numbers up. ;)
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: They'll pick up free Mature land on mainland. At L$1/sqm or whatever it'll be cheaper tier and cheaper buy price than most estates
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: yeah, i think too, with bulk option in 1.23 its very important :)
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: Naa...each time the encomity of SL goes up, they create a new project to try to distroy it. Examples, sim price increase, AC stuff.
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: :-)
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Elan: And that's why the speculator's angle is relevant. Though, shouldn't this make you happy? :p
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Fontte: sure, I'm hoping to make a killing on this Ao thing. I'm pretty sure there'll never be enough so I just need to buy tons and people will be begging me for it
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: It's not a case of trying to destroy...more a case of squeezing more juice out of the lemon!!!
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: It's a big, one-sided market flux that's going to make a lot of people rich.
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I think one big question on my mind is this: presuming it turns out to be nearly as bad as the worst we're expecting, what is LL's "backup strategy"?
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah, I was speaking earlier from the perspective of the general resident. For me personally this could be way awesome
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]] nodnods
*[11:48] VisitorMonitor: Inn Box has entered store secondlife:///app/agent/038abe67-9a7d-43b8-8636-35d3343c468e/about secondlife://Steamboat/185/73/88
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: you really think they know what a strategy is tal :)
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: What are you going to say to us when this thing goes completely off the rails?
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: oops?
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: If you all haven't had a discussion about what to do when it does, I think you better plan one, and soon.
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: "We'll sell you your land back at 1.5 times markup?"
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: What's the worst case scenario Talarus? Lose half the residents, mainland prices are near 0 but people are still paying tier, estates still largely exist. Then just build from there. It won't be all that bad
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: as usual, they will say its all fine. and better then expected even
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Well, the Governor could decide to start buying Mainland.
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: this isn't a decision that is going to be reversed, we feel it's very important that we make this change. if the actual implementation goes awry, then of course we'll make changes as needed to get through that but fundamentally it will still happen
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: As far as I can tell, we're looking at a whole lot of short term market flux. Elan actually had a good point, about the timing of the Homestead repricing.
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: With half the residents, half the mainland will likely go abandoned, with no one paying tier on it.
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: and not only that...for the first time they will have real competiion showing up this year
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: If I was playing the numbers, I'd bet that'd push a lot of people back to mainland pricing.
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, the thing is, if the implementation goes awry, and the only fix is reversing it, are you willing to live with it being "broken" going forward?
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: If so, that tells me what I needed to know.
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Half I would think is conservative....age verification will be the new black....and Ursula (Project Name ) the new cash cow
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Thus setting up a terrific profit for anyone looking to buy parcels cheap after people start the move to Ursula.
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Just saying. :p
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: What could possibly happen that would make it necessary to reverse the migration? Can't think of anything.
*[11:52] VisitorMonitor: Rupert Etzel has entered store secondlife:///app/agent/d75b533f-e9e2-43d0-afb3-1a6cc9b6171a/about secondlife://Steamboat/185/73/88
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: because, I am telling you now, I'm ready to press the "Abandon" button right now and walk away.
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah, so what, oldbies quit all the time. It's never as earth shattering as the oldbie thinks
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: If it is THAT broken, and you STILL insist that it is the "right path", then what's the point in staying?
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: you tlak like a linden elan lol
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I never said it was "earth shattering".
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Point it, I don't think I would be the only one, and it won't all be "oldbies" doing it.
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Some folks are already throwing in the towel.
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, yo udon't know how this will go, i really do think that we need to go into the process and judge it as it unfolds - not weeks before it has even started
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: and what will you do if it fails....Tal was asking for a backup
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I don't need to "know" how it will go to do a risk analysis of what you are doing.
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I know people are concerned, and when there are big changes like this it can be really difficult, but Second Life has changed hugely and often over the last few years.
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Well, speaking personally, my gripe is whether you guys have inspected the speculator angle, and calculated out what the market will do when you start dumping large swaths of sims.
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: is there an expectation Jack that age verification will be carried out by the vast majority of new joins?
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: As long as you keep rollout in manageable bites, it should be OK.
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Not gonna lie, I'm quite excited about speculating on this stuff
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: So, Jack, CONVINCE me, or at least help me CONVINCE MYSELF that my risk analysis is flawed.
*[11:56] VisitorMonitor: Wild Abbot has entered store secondlife:///app/agent/936a5fa8-72b4-4a75-a3da-0f2165a83844/about secondlife://Steamboat/185/73/88
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: @jack: i have noticed some interesting changement or some bad changement, but its the ruls of evolution now :)
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I keep asking for that, and you and Blondin, and every other Linden are just handing me more rope.
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Driftwood, for people coming in they wil have a huge grid to explore even without being verified, but if they *choose* to explore the adult areas then they will be able to verify and do that
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: A huge, EMPTY grid to explore
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I like "will be able" instead of "absolutely must". it's removing options and freedom
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: what percentage is currently age verified?
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Zero
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: And payment information used will still count toward age verification yes?
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: There's no way to verify age.
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: with assurance
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: That's definitely the verbiage that pisses me off most. This isn't about adding options or giving people freedom, you're taking away freedom and adding restrictions
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: As an aside, I hope this means you'll have a more strict policy on banlines, considering people will have fewer reasons for "privacy" on the mainland. :P
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Agreed Tal and thats my point......i know we should not judge but a migration would not be my guess...more exodus
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: I've tried to age verfify. I'me 40+ and failed.
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, there are 200 adult regions and we don't expect to use all of those for a while. the grid is tens of thousands of regions.. how would the grid possibly be empty?
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: That makes no sense at all
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: And yeah, I agree on the verbiage.
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: just put payment info in and you are verified
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: By people like me leaving because we're fed up with LL's bullshit
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Fontte: in 1.23 viewer, you can make the banlines invisible. unfortunately, vehicles still see them. :(
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: all premiums already have payment info with us, and they are the Mainland owners
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Well, if you give away 50 and auction them off in the right way prices will hit L$50/sqm and of course you won't use them all up. But if you do it a different way they will immediately be full and people will be begging for more
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: One of my consistent gripes with the blog, and Linden interaction in general these days, is it's filled with buzzwords and spin. We'd like honest assessment and discussion, not lawyerspeak. :D
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: JIRA that Qie
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I have a half sim now. It ain't much, but it is a half sim more of empty space when I am gone.
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: hehehe
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: Qie, yes jira it, with clear reprod i need for test: )
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: I am missing something...Ursula is purely for business....not for residential??
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Wait, scratch my last statement. No matter how many you print, if you auction them in any reasonable way you will sell every single one
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: How will you know if you don't need anymore?
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal, the number of people who have told me they are very upset about this is less than 10 (and I get a huge number of IMs). If this is as unpopular as you think then it's not reflected in the support calls, tickets, etc. We know that for some people this isn't a popular move, but that doesn't mean everyone
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: If you auction a system and people bid on it then is that a sign you need to auction another?
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Less than 10?? O.o Read the forums much??
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: you really have to read the forums jack!!!
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Jack, come on there's more than 10 people in THIS ROOM that are very upset about it
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: lol
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Jack... dearest... I'm very upset about this *g*
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Speaking of the forums. I'd really like the old RSS link to be re-enabled. :P
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: you are now talking about mainland owners, but estate sims will have to be flagged adult too from time to time... and people want to buy their sex poseballs, so they need to get there somehow jack. and yes, they come ALSO for other things then sex, just the question is how many come for everything but sex.
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Do you want to publicly announced that you're tallying dissent? I can have your inbox full in a few hours.
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I do read the forums, I was talking about the direct IMs I get. As i said, I know some people are unhappy about it but that doesn't mean everyone is
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: So I can do some parsing on all the topics without reading all the BAAAAWWWWWW threads. :D
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Jack, people don't KNOW to tell you that.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: *I* haven't IMed you about it.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: So I guess I am not in that "less than 10" figure?
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: sorry jack, i need to leave for french localization meeting , but i'm back in next week! :)
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: it's true: I've now heard from one person in-world who supports it, and there were a couple posting on the forums.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: I personally know of three sim owner that are VERY UPSET on how the AC is being done.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: geeez....most people are unhappy about it jack
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: See? that's what I am talking about.. CLUELESS!!
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Come on jack, that's crazy. I don't randomly IM Lindens to tell them I'm unhappy about something. I post on the forums or the blog and hope you guys read it
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: you just dont know the market !!
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Have you considered, y'know.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: or what is really going on in sl
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Starting a vote thread on it? :P
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: Jack, are you disusaional? Oh wait...nevermind..
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: 2 estate owners, 3 sims owners, myself and about 20 residents. not happy.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: On the forums there were over 6000 posts and maybe three posters were actively for the change
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: So we had a somewhat accurate number of for and against?
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Jack, announce the policy on the login screen and take a poll.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Go on. I DARE you.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: yes good idea tal
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ack, sadly I have to go to my next meeting. I think this will be, ultimately, a good change and I'm happy to own that it will be difficult for some people
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: The fact is, this sort of change is traditionally seen as negative. It pisses people off to have to move their established businesses.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: I mean, come on.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I think you will get a few more than "less than 10".
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: And we'll do all we can to make it less difficult.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Look at all the .xxx legislation that failed.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: HUGE negative backlash.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I'll tell everyone to IM you and tell you they are unhappy
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: LEss dificult, bah
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Or happy as the case may be
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: and i guess we'll soon know how it goes :)
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: OK. That's all I needed to know. Thanks, Jack. :)
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: If you're going to go ahead with this change, at the very least be honest about it. :)
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: I only message Jack for chocolate.
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Anyone interested in half a sim of Mature mainland?
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: im jack for free lindens XD
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: sorry to cut out mid conversation, i feel like these could be 3 hours and we'd still not be done
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: Thanks Jack!!
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: take care jack
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: tah
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: true!
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: jack :)
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Welcome to meetings. :D
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: thanks, Jack.
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Have a good one.
*[12:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hehe
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Angela Talamasca|Angela Talamasca]]: bye jack, and thanks! :-)
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]: where, Talarus? :)
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Great Pubnico
*[12:05 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Bye Jack
</div></div>

<div id='box' style='text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em;'>
Generated by [http://kuraiko.zeitenwerk.de/wikify.php SL Chatlog Wikify]
</div>

Talk:Adult content keywords

2009-04-29T06:08:45Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: /* Reinstated */

{{talk}}
Thanks to Milla for adding a bunch more to the list. Could you note here what list of words you tested? It would make it easier to search if we know what's already been tried.{{unsigned|DanielRavenNest Noe|10:48, 27 April 2009}}

== Deletion ==

It was wrong to delete this list. It didn't violate the [[Editing Guidelines]] (only point I could imagine would be the PG paragraph tho I'd consider a list of keywords still PG as documantation rather than obscenity). Furthermore, it will prevent the contributors to contribute more content to ''any'' article because of the fear of irrecoverable removal. It only causes drama.

The reason given at [http://forums.secondlife.com/showpost.php?p=2407818&postcount=5987 thread 2407818 post 5987] isn't really a reason to remove this. False information can be fixed. If we'd decide to remove every article that contains partitially false or incomplete information, we wouldn't have much of a wiki anymore.

-- [[Image:Zai_signature.png|45px]] '''[[User:Zai Lynch|Lynch]]''' <sup><small>([[User talk:Zai Lynch|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Zai Lynch|contribs]])</small></sup> 16:16, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

:<strike>P.S.: Remove [[Search keywords]] too plz, since it's a dead redirect now. [[Image:Zai_signature.png|45px]] '''[[User:Zai Lynch|Lynch]]''' <sup><small>([[User talk:Zai Lynch|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Zai Lynch|contribs]])</small></sup> 16:26, 28 April 2009 (UTC)</strike>

== Reinstated ==

Reinstated page without actual list. Also noted that search.secondlife.com is filtered too.{{unsigned|DanielRavenNest Noe|19:05, 28 April 2009}}

Do you think we'll get away with putting a link to an offsite list of words? Or would that be considered taking the piss? - Elanthius Flagstaff

Talk:Adult content keywords

2009-04-29T06:08:19Z

Elanthius Flagstaff:

User:Jack Linden/Office Hours/Thursday

2009-04-23T20:43:32Z

Elanthius Flagstaff:

{{hCalendar event/Office Hours
|mode={{{mode|}}}
|Resident=Jack Linden
|weekday=Thursday
|start=11am {{SLT}}
|end=12pm {{SLT}}
|description=Topics: Any issues relating to Customer Relations/Support or concerning Land in general (mainland, islands, estates, auctions and grid management) or specifically about high level support programs such as Concierge or Enterprise level tier. [[:Category:Jack_Linden_Office_Hours|Office Hour Transcripts]]
|location=[http://slurl.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/213/107/49?title=Jack%27s%20Office Jack's Office]
}}

User:Jack Linden/Office Hours/Thursday

2009-04-23T20:37:49Z

Elanthius Flagstaff:

{{hCalendar event/Office Hours
|mode={{{mode|}}}
|Resident=Jack Linden
|weekday=Thursday
|start=11am {{SLT}}
|end=12pm {{SLT}}
|description=Topics: Any issues relating to Customer Relations/Support or concerning Land in general (mainland, islands, estates, auctions and grid management) or specifically about high level support programs such as Concierge or Enterprise level tier. Transcripts: [[Jack Linden Office Hours]]
|location=[http://slurl.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/213/107/49?title=Jack%27s%20Office Jack's Office]
}}

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-04-16

2009-04-23T20:34:12Z

Elanthius Flagstaff:

<div id='box'>
== List of Attendees ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]
*[[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]
*[[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]
*[[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]
*[[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]
*[[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]
*[[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]
*[[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]
*[[User:Melodie Darwin|Melodie Darwin]]
*[[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]
*[[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]
*[[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]
*[[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]
*[[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]
*[[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]
*[[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]
*[[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]
*[[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]
*[[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]
*[[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]
*[[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]
*[[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]
*[[User:Willow Halfpint|Willow Halfpint]]
*[[User:Inara Marquette|Inara Marquette]]
</div></div>

<div id='box'>
== Transcript ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Dragons, guard the entrance!
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Drawn and quartered.. by Dragons.
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: We still need to get you an urn of extortionist ashes.
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I'll take a drumstick
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: I have my Cattle Prod
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: hello ,,,
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: so i'll give an update on the micro-parcels / cutting stuff first of all
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Wow never heard the music stream here before...and now I see why ;)
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: after the aggravated assault I suffered at the last meeting, i can report some serious progress this week..
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: pffft
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Ooo.. you mean we had an effect? :D
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Shocking, I know.
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Yeah some git set a parcel for sale for me for L$9900
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: I would simply call it a little persuasion...
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yeah.. Luke Termagant is still knocking up holes for L$9900.. he's not going out anytime soon.
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: over the last couple of weeks the number of 16m parcels for sale has dropped by another 2k, to 14k.., and several of the big micro-barons have now agreed to exchange out their 16m plots for large plots.. and obviously to not go back into that business
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: aka "GOLD COINS" and "PRIM PLUS"
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Hmm sounds interesting
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Gold Coins is the one, it wasn't even set for sale before, now L$9900
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: we estimate a further 5500 16m parcels at least should be getting abandoned or given back to us in the next week or two
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: but yes, some serious progress
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]] prays they're from his "favorite" extortion rings.
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: is that inclusive the arbor projects microplots Jack ?
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: exclusive Timo
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: ah
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: yeah.. I suppose we will know soon who those folks are
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: (What's this meetings agenda?)
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: What about the rest of the intransigents?
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: we did around 1500-2000 past month
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Land issues, Tumble
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Open/Free-format
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Melodie Darwin|Melodie Darwin]]: are you counting sizes like 32 or 64 at all? There is still alot being done to harass others and uglify the mainland at those sizes... seperated but joined etc
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]] nods
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: we're in conversation with all of the large micro parcel dealers, some are obviously more open to negotiation than others, but we'll get there
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Melodie, we are.. and yes, those have dropped too - but the large majority are 16m
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Melodie Darwin|Melodie Darwin]]: ty
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: Yes. I sawa new cut into plots about 96-228 ... do they count in the policy?
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: it depends on the nature of the cutting Drongle, but if it's a case of slicing up parcel into many smaller plots to sell.. that would clearly be an issue
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: So...AR and see what happens?
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: people just managing their land in normal ways isn't a problem
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: sure
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: is there a written policy about it?
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: there is the original blog post, and the kb article i believe
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: so who has something else they would like to talk about?
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: ok..will check the kb thanks
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: i saw that you are already rolling out the code for the adult changes in server version 1.26, how can that be while we are still discussing what it exactly should be? Also the fact that you already could include it now, means that you are working on it for a very long time by now.
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: They have been.. over a year, in fact.
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: jack, yes, how is that possible a whole part of an old build sudently desapeared ?
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: whot?
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: 2007 was the first broadly offensive blog I read
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dennis, the server side doesn't include the definitions or hard policies.. it just gives us the tools to be able to enact something once it has been decided
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: I have a question or two, when appropriate
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Still has lots of issues, though.
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: i experimented that (ok in the mainland, at Calleta, next to the hobo infor hub) a big part of my train station desapeared
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Asterion.. did you at any point run out of prims?
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: that part of the building was one of the oldest one
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Older prims can get returned when a parcel is full
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: no prims issues, as far i know
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hard for me to answer without going off to look, but if you have filed a support ticket then someone should be in touch soon
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: i let a limit of about 800 prims left for the renters
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: it does rarely happen.. i know we had a section of Linden roadway vanish recently for no clear reason
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: when will that be fixed so you dont get stuff returned anymore when the parcel is full
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: but it's very rare
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Not as rare as you would think. ;)
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: the land owner has been warned, i just hope he will fill the ticket in emergency ;)
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: im just the builder there
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: ah :) i'm sure it'll be answered soon.. our queue answer rate is pretty good these days
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: most concierge tickets are responded to well before the 24 hours
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: talarus, i hope to dont see that issue on some of my other buildings :) most of them r giants, and i dont have any save
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: if something weird could happen, it would happen in Calleta.
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: What's the story on camping bots / traffic?
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: also, will you provide better support for people to validate themselves? i first tried it via the website... didn't work, then had to fill a manual support ticket, they said it was done, but i was still bumping in to "age verification lines", then i reopened the support ticket, they once again said it should be ok, still running into age verification lines... i didn't try athird time yet, i just gave up, and many other would do that as well, but not only giving up entering age verification areas, but SL as a whole
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal.. just waiting for a slot to post that. we try to keep the big items from landing at the same time
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: OK. Just queueing the question
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: What other big item is landing?
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Some poor soul wanted me to code a camping chair with a captcha system yesterday. This amused me greatly.
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: M's post for example, which went out recently
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I also have a question for a problem we are having with the Isle / Fantasy continent
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dennis, not sure on that one but i'll ask someone to look into it
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: ok, thanx.
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: We have someone who was able to sneak into a reserved spot near use with his region. We have tickets in to move some regions around to fill in some spaces, but this guy is holding us up, and he shouldn't even be there.
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: *us
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: how is it reserved Tal?
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: He initially was amiable to the move, as you all said it would be free because of the mistake.
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Via the land store
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: The buffer around our continent
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: ah interesting. is it being dealt with then?
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Not yet
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: We've got tickets in, but no resolution, and he's now going "what's in it for me?" as if he is going to try and extort us for money to move.
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: A Sim extortionist
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: okays, i'll be sure to mention it to the team
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yeah. :-/
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Firstly, an invitation to come see for yourself specific issues, but....
*
*A) It's been said the reason that LL wont help physically move items because of the no guarentees on land shape and size, *if*a case is judged that it IS possible, is there the manpower to do it? And if not, It shouldnt be taken casually that WE have the time and labor
*
*B) In light of the fact that LL has so far said they aren't likely to help physically move things will there be 30 days allowed to move? And if so, what compensation is being considered for that time frame for loss of wages, labor, etc? ((Linden Labs has said everyone will be judged case by case to what they WILL offer help-wise))
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Please do
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: but if there is a ticket then they will already be on it
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: We're all ready to get Eragon moved, but he's the fly in the ointment
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hey Tumbleweed.. in terms of terrrain height alone it's extremely unlikely that the two parcels will match, but as a general rule we will not be able to move content for you - we just have no good way to do that
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: General rule, of course
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: as for B) if you have a significant content issue that means you need to have a bot more time, just let us know
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: *lot
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: heeh
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: lol
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: lol @ bot more time
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: you a a bot on your mind today. :P
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: I do, then when will there be an open house to look at what we are getting?
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: (i think i may have typed 'bot' too many times lol)
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: hehe
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: (are you into bot stuffs?)
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: once this discussion round is ended, and we get closer to June, we will open up the land for everyone to take a look
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: as for compensation?
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Loss of earnings, etc?
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: we do not have any plans to provide compensation i'm afraid
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Thats very bad, very very bad, so it WILL cost us
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: how about people that bought at a private estate that will be adult area in future and don't want to validate themselves... will you compensate or help them somehow?
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: The silence on estate aid is deafening
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: Jack, how is the land type tradeoff being handled - I mean there is a big difference between moving someone on a piece of patchworked rockland, and someone who is currently on a nice protected waterfront plot?
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: They will have to flag their region, adult or not
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: (i think u can move a sim to another location) :)
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: (They wont, its a tech nightmare, matching land edges, etc)
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dennis, that area of the AO project really isn't something that sits with me, i'm mainly concerned with the migration part and providing all the land.. but i think that how estates flag their land will be somewhat down to them.
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: There will be people who don't want to flag a whole sim adult, it's a terrible secnario people are being put in
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I'd suggest you pose that in the ao forums and someone can answer there hopefully
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: ok
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: tumble not that nightmare than seing a sexshop just next to the door :)
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: So it will cost us, pure and simple, headaches, time...loss of earnings.......
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: True
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: but what if a resident has now a 16000sm parcel on a private estate which will stay mature....where will he move and will he loose the money he paid for the parcels
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Chaos, we're not going to worry too much about the 'worth' of the land, as people will be able to choose where they end up.. and the area is big enough that there should be plenty of choice
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: Are all mainland Mature sims turning PG?
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Jack, for one, I feel for ya; this decision is going to severely impact you and your group, and I don't think Blondin/Jeska/M have really thought it through very well.
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: I never though that Avatar Overides would be a big subject.
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Nobody on the adult continent team, and they should lose the AO acronym as that's already taken, are addressing the estate land economics
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: They also are not addressing many of the issues that are brought up
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]] woots, "A.C!"
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: OOps, no tthat one either
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Equinox, that would have to start with a conversation with the estate owner, but i'm not aware of any plans for compensation - I don't really see how we'd even be able to judge that anyway
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: It makes sense as a move to bring the kids onto the mainland, but as far as I can tell, no company or movement in history has been able to handle such a move.
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Right, our point exactally, so say this Jack, "It's going to COST you"
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: We had a sizeable chunk of land abandoned with a "adult" site on it. the problem is her land descriptions were the issue, ultimately there was no sexual acts on parcel however she pulled out lost her parcel price etc...
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: That includes attempts to migrate all adult websites to .xxx, and attempts by other companies to marginalize "adult" content.
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Fontte, we've no plans to move the kidgrid into the main grid - that really hasn't been a part of the decisionmaking around this adult continent
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: ok..and how will you handle the traffic issue as mainland sims only allow 40 avis....all these businesses which will move are high traffic...will part of the sims stay empty
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Yep, one of my places will fill up the sim
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: not to mention the script times....
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Every day
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: that also
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Perhaps I'm out of the loop, but what /was/ the rationale to move all adult content to its own continent?
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: You should leave estate land alone Jack and give us the tools to flag parcels, mainland is your estate so you can manage that how you see fit but estate land is getting a raw deal here with no offers of help from LL
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: image time.... etc etc
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: What I've read has been very roundabout and diversionary.
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Equinox, i think in the city regions on the adult continent, there is far more Linden land than on the average Mainland region, so there should be fewer owners per region anyways
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: And frankly, more conducive to client filtering controls than anything else.
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ciaran, that is what is happening.. it'll be up to the estates to flag their land correctly.
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: No Jack it's a region level flag, all or nothing
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: The current "Linden Answer" aka "spin", is that is being done to "give residents a more predictable SL experience"; "to give them more control over their experience".
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Melodie Darwin|Melodie Darwin]]: what happens to the parcels left behind on existing mainland once the adult content is moved?
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]] muses "Wonder how long the AO server rack will last at full capacity...
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Yeah, that's fairly hollow in a business-speak way.
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]] touches her nose
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: it will be fine, u invite into govs guys to promote educational contents, and due to some error TP, or sim shutting down) u r moved into some adult content sim owned my rocco :)
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: region level yes.. ah you mean the granularity.. yeah, i thin kfor technical reasons access needed to be region level
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: Jack..will Mainland 'Mature' regions be converted to 'PG'?
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: one of the tricky things is that if it were parcel level, with the way the camera works, it wouldn't really achieve much
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Pretty much that is what "Mature" is becoming
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: PulseBurst.. no
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: m"ature is not adult"
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: but that's the problem Jack, some regions have adult parcels, either the whole region goes adult, which reduces visibility, or the adult business gets booted out, meaning a parcel left unrented and a business left out of pocket
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: it's confusing..and I read the blogs.
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: Someone pointed this out to me. One of the methoids to get adult verfied it to use paypal verfied account, that cost a buck something to get a premiun account via paypal in paypal fees. So it will cost money to get verfied, said money is taken by paypal, own by ebay, own by goggle...
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ciaran.. yeah, that is one of the challenges I agree. the whole region gets flagged
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: For mixed use regions that's going to need some hard decisions
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Hehe. "challenges" good spin codeword for "unresolved problems with the idea". :P
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: perhaps some extra Estate sims for transition... something LL could help with
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Honestly, the whole issue is in need of some clarity from the top.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: lol.. did i drop into managerspeak Tal? bad bad me
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yus.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: and will you offer the peole who have to move out of a mature private region land on the mainland for free?
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: It'd be nice if the original policymakers would just tell us what they want the grid to be.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Only a couple more and I will have Bingo
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: agreed
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Also is it true that if an estate has 2 neighbouring regions in a contiguous land mass both will have to flag as adult?
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hehe
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Yes I loved the way you just said 'hard decisions' witout point out WHO was going to be makin them Jack - excellent Manager-speak - we'll have you in a tie yet
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ciaran, i hadn't heard of that being a decision
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: All this "mature is not adult" and "what defines porn" stuff is really just a tangent to the main issue: what do you call a "consistent experience?"
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, the way the camera works......
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Moon.. agreed, so to be clear, the estate owners will have to decide those things, and agreed, not ideal
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Ok Jack, someone mentioned it on the forum due to people being able to cam across, we'll see what happens because that would be another fine mess
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: As in, should the mainland be a suburban sprawl from end to end?
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: That sounds rather... boring. Mainstream, but boring.
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: lindenlab is driving itself a step closer to the end of SL with this the way its done again. the concurrent users are hardly growing anymore, this will start to drive the numbers absolutely negative. I'ts not affecting me directly, i'm just seeing SL going down. Jack, how many people do you expect to "loose" their business because they will not verify?
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I wouldn't want to see that Fontte, the Mainland has always been so diverse.. I think it'll remain that way but.. we do want to give those that want it, more structure and choice
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: They already have it.
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: yes, "mature is not adult" really too vague..and leaves people unsure of their status and plans.
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Wouldn't it be smarter to reach out to communities on the grid and ask how they've done it, instead of impose from the top?
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Structure and choice are all well and good but why does it have to be on mainland?
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dennis.. concurrency is rising all the time! in fact the last 3 months we've broken the concurrency record many times
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: I mean, if you want structure and choice, you should solicit the people that have built both since the beginnings of Second Life.
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: more bots....
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: aye but sorry to be synical how much of it is bots
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: snap...
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Fontte, i don't know all the details, but that team has spoken to lots of people now
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Ooo.. a marketing hat! That's a new one, Jack! :P
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Well, I'm not questioning the quantity. I'm questioning the quality, and the process.
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Well if you allowed mainland sim owners to apply for covenants you can get structure via community agreement
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: i just remember the "gambeling ban", and the drop in th economy statistics... this drop will be bigger.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: As far as I can tell, this has all been very scattershot, on account of LL keeping itself segregated from the interests of the residents (ie, us)
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: it was not a drop in the econoly, it was a abyss
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: but..gambling is not gone..there's zyngo, isn't there?
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: You know, i don't think that there are as many bots as people think. we'll see of course, once we start looking at the traffic bot situation after the blog post goes out.. and sure it may impact concurrency a little but i doubt it will be a big dent
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yeah, was gonna say.. since when is gambling gone?
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: "Linden-approved skill-based games," Tal. *nodnod
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: a·dult
*2. of, pertaining to, or befitting adults.
*3. intended for adults; not suitable for children: adult entertainment.
*–noun
*6. a person who has attained the age of maturity as specified by law.
*
*ma·ture
*–adjective
*3. fully developed in body or mind, as a person: a mature woman.
*7. intended for or restricted to adults, esp. by reason of explicit sexual content or the inclusion of violence or obscene language: mature movies.
*8. composed of adults, considered as being less susceptible than minors to explicit sexual content, violence, or obscene language, as of a film or stage performance: for mature audiences only.
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Keep up with the terms. :P
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: clicking is a skill?
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: Not that many bots??? select the map - go to crowded regions ... you will find tons of bots up in the sky
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: there was a clear drop in the statistics, and it has taken long to fix it. this will be not different
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I think there are more bots than you realize, Jack.
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: yes, i agree, a lot lot more bots :
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: i think that too jack
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Sorry, had to do that
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: a LOT more
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: If you want to see bots, just drop in on an InfoHub... speaking of which, the sudden abundance of InfoHubs: Might any old, problematic ones be retired? And, just curious how (and why) something like this was kept so quiet (NCI didn't know, for example).
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Sunday is my worst trading day of the week, yet it's the busiest day concurrency wise, not sure what everyone is doing!
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: bots own us
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: and almost every resident has at least one alt account
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: 20% of concurrency? more?
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: I can provide you long lists with bots provided by my customers used for cheating on contest, etc
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: 20% is probably a reasonable number.
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Is OK, Tumble, I tried the definition route in the forums, too. Blondin ignored it
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: If someone erects advertising at an Infohub, or public land, they can be ARed for several things perhaps..Unfair use of region resources, Object Littering, Avert Farm/Visual Spam, Land Encroachment. But it they simply create an account, and have the avatar sit there "as a advertisement"...they can get away with it..spamming, using resources, creating visual blight. This happens regularly, and new infohubs are full of these avatars. Why can't it be ARed..with consequences on the business owners that use them..not just the throw-away alts....warning, suspension, termination. It is the Linden's land.they should tend to it, without a long-drawn out monthly blog announce, endless commentary, and indecision. Just the will to do the right thing..and govern it.
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: BlckCobra, we've been doing exactly that - amd yes they are an issue, but not a huge one as far as we can see.. but i guess we'll find out!
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: That's consistent with figures Symantec released about email spam earlier this week.
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Where something like 1/5 of all email is spam.
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: whoosh that was big.. let me read all that..
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: In terms of resource load, not messages.
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: what is not huge for you...10%...20%..30%..40%?
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: some month ago, i used to say "hi!" when i met folks, no i use to ask "are you a bot?" then say 'hi!'
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: Just make traffic stats private information for parcel owners and avoid all the unnecessary leaping about with tests that take months to perform and result in no action.
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: why would someone load up on bots on a sunday?
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: lol
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: I'me a alt here due to another Linden office hours i'm at the same time with my main account.
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Ballpark, that'd put the number of bots at.... 50,000? 200,000?
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I think that was inverted, Fontte.. 1/5th of all email is NOT spam. :P
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: That's the per message tally, Tal. :P
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: And yeah.
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: PulseBurst.. i think we will deal with those kinds of nuisance uses of Bots. but lets wait until the blog post is out and we can discuss it more here
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: I was on a sim this morning, someone dropped some land for sale below market, the landbots couldn't get into the sim because the traffic bots had filled the sim - LOL
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: ..if my inbox is any measure. :-/
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: Jack, check "Mikey's Agency" for example: hundrets of bots and alts used to cheating. Abuse reports were filed , some bots were apparently removed but they create new ones faster than you can say "bye"
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: OK, when's the "blog post"?
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Sorry, whens the blog post out?
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: ack
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: ok..but Torley is posting exciting pictures of new "resis" at the new infohubs..but it's mostly bots. ;)
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: when will we see that post
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Bots have their place, an infohub isn't that place
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: agreed Claran
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: just waiting for the okay before posting it. shouldn't be long. 'd say 'tomorrow' but i can't guarantee it. :)
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: i agree bots can be usefull, when they know do do something else that just camp for traffic stats :)
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Reminds me of that guy in Edinburgh holding a big sign says "GOLF SALE <---"
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: My qeustion: if we submit list of caught bots used for cheating to abuse department will LL do something or is it wasted time?
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: wait until after the post goes out BlckCobra
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Frankly, the useful bots are in far fewer number than the ones generated by hacks looking for a quick profit. :p
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: Just take away the traffic advantages and bots will diminish. Bottom line.
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: I agree Fontte
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: OK, so, before next week?
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: in looking around i found some great bots, but most are just for traffic
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: That has already happened...no?
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Diminish for traffic, anyway.
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Jack time isn't always that accurate Tal ;)
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: no Dirk..at infohubs..they are not seeking to improve Traffic on their own land
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Bots still have viability in terms of gaming markets.
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: that won't solve it
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hehe Ciaran
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]] prays traffic is going to be decoupled from search.
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: fontte of course, if it was easy to script a smart bot, they would be everywhere (including in my kitchen)
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Search HAS changed
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Snatching L$1 parcels, picking out the rare arbitrage opportunities on the Lindex, etc, etc.
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: any comment on the fact that adult and mature are the same thing?
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: I was told traffic has been taken OUT
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Also.. an example of bots causing issues getting other people in trouble.
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: I will wait jack, but my customers and I start loosing patience because this has become a really annyoing issue - and we are not talking about a few but meanwhile lists of 1000nds confirmed cheater bots
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: I wouldn't put it past people to arbitrage between the Lindex and XStreetSL because they can. ;)
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: I don't mind traffic, but I use it for trying to find foot traffic rather than seeing it as a sign of good content
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: My neighbor has a games place in another region that has like 10 lucky chairs.
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: She recently got warned for "overusing region resources"
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: talarus, u r right, u cant imagine how frustrated im when i discover im having a discution woth a bot!
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: She has tried everything she can up to just removing the lucky chairs to stop the bots.
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: However, the problem is not her fault, directly.
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Asterion: Depends on your definition of smart bots. Have you used Outlook's filters lately? :)
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: LOL
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: It's not so much complexity as utility.
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: What is she giving away in the Lucky Chairs?
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: the sad thing is that when i stand at the welcome areas, i'm often asked if i am real.
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: fontte well i wasnt talking about einstein bots :) but IBM and some other r using bots to help some handicaped ppl to undersant and use SL
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I don't know for sure; I think it is either prizes or money.
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: the jury is still out on that Jack :P
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: Try wearing a red scarf, Jack :P
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Willow Halfpint|Willow Halfpint]]: hey jack :-)
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Inara Marquette|Inara Marquette]] hands Jack a tissue.
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: She just told me today
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: haha
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: some r used as statistic, and to inform visitors, or r actors in some theaters :)
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: Then she needs to give away no transfer items only and no L$ and bots won't bother with it
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: Another question: I have been approached by a few lately asking for SL6B ... any info on that?
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I told her I would bring it up and see what people suggest.
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: SL6B will be an event as usual, I think Dusty Linden is looking after the details
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I'm hoping the bot policy will address it to some extent
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Honestly, the easiest way to deal with bots is to handle the market issues that created them in the first place.
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]] tries again. "So, about these new InfoHubs. How did they spring up so suddenly without anybody (notably, NCI) knowing they were coming in such numbers? And is there any plan to retire some of the old, problematic InfoHubs?
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: yup
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: yep, but no beep from Dusty yet and no one seems to knwo anything as of yet. SL5B group is still alive an people are asking - even the former event managers
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal.. there are some lucky chairs i've seen that ask questions from time to time to prove the sitter isn't a bot
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: jack....i was told that SEARCH criteria has changed....and that TRAFFIC is no longer a vital component in SEARCH....is that correct?
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: has she tried those?
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: When is land going to have a value again?
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Alexxa traffic hasn't been a vital component in all search for quite some time
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Heh.. when SLHell freezes up
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: The amusing thing is captchas in those cases don't work. :p
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: That's not what i was told 2 days ago by Concierge
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: She is using those, Jack.
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: bots are used for making L$, driving traffic, cheating on contests etc .. you can't take all that away ... partially maybe but not in total
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Alexxa, search will always be changed/tweaked/refined.. as we work to make it better, but traffic is stil a part of it
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: hence the "trying everything" part.
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Someone could easily set it up to offload the captcha onto Amazon's mechanical turk for like, $0.01, and take the profit.
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Which is what some people do.
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: She has them setup to ban the bots, too, but more just come to replace them
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: Search is somewhat broken now. http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4123
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: somewhat? LOL
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Worse, she keeps trying to explain this to support/G-team in tickets/reponses, but it seems to be falling on deaf ears.
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Hence, why I am bringing it up here.
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: jack what about a traffic doing per activities (like incomes) instead of just the number of folks ?
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: A bot will only use a Lucky Chair if the prizes received have some value in L$ or are L$. There is no need to bog down a chair with scripts when you can simply pass no transfer items and be rid of the bot problem in your chairs.
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: ok, dont tell my names to coders :)
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Asterion.. we could go that way, and have more varied types of land metrics.
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I think in general we totally want to add more data
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Right back to the market forces issue.
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We've plans to do that
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: there is a lot of method to do metrics about a sim (and not only avatars number)
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: And this is why we can't have nice things. :p
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Jack hiding some of those metrics might be helpful
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: you mean limiting to just the landowner Ciaran?
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Well not even that Jack, if you decideed to count money spent as a ranking factor you can do that as a top secret ranking method and then nobody is going to go around getting bots to spend money to influence ranking
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: oh definitely.. agreed
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: the measures used for search, shouldn't always be easily tested against
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, hiding will only work for so long. Someone will find a way to game it
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: They will make a dummy store, and test different things at different times to see the effect on their rankings
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: talarus simple
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: To a degree Tal but they should change the weighting factors on a regular basis.
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Hence why Google throws people at the problem. :P
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: yup
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: owners will themself give money to the shops of some friends, and vice versa :)
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Yeah, look at the google model. No-one after years of trying understand their calculations
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Because it constantly evolves and shifts
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: Totally diff subject, but Jack, any idea when we can expect to see our 'My Land' updated to get rid of all the remnants from sim conversions etc? It has been months now and all these estates and plots are still showing in the My Land dialog
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: It's a hard call. Frankly, I'd just outsource it to Google, in terms of some sort of revenue-sharing contract.
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: (also a bot can spend money)
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: That's why we have asked if LL is REALLY committed to a REAL search ranking system like Google's, because it will take REAL people a lot of time to constantly tweak and vary it
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Chaos.. that's a very good point. We had to keep the regions around in case people changed their minds but soon they will get expunged
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: If you all are just going to make one complex formula and call it golden, then never touch it again unril the next iteration a few years down the line, it won't last a month
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Any news on these full region equivalents Jack?
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Which is why Yahoo and MSN Search are constantly playing catchup.
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Talarus, I would say we are. WE have a team now dedicated to it, some super bright minds so it will get the attention it needs
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]] somehow suspects third time won't be a charm, but: "Jack, to whom should questions about the new InfoHubs be directed?"
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Good. :)
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ciaran.. what do you mean?
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: Again: Bots are usually hosted on only a few computers controlled by the owner ... so they originate from the same IP / MAC address ... easy to determine ... so my question is: since masses of avatars by the same person are against the TOs, why is it so complicated to a) filter them (and take the off traffic numbers) and b) locate them and remove them?
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: The new land product you have in the pipeline
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: Search is screwed again for sure.. Once again it is returning keywords that are nestled within larger words.. Table pulls up results for tintable, poratble etc... Semen pulls up results for Amusement, Basement etc... It has been fixed before, Jeska has a huge blog post about it and it is an important factor in making Search viable so why does it continue to fail?
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: or does LL need them for driving up the user stats? ;-)
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Simple answer, BlckCobra? NAT
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Search is a really difficult thing, in terms of relevancy. Ultimately, you have to think like a user.
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: Qie, I think Jack has you muted. ;)
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: too simple Talarus
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Qie.. talk to Blondin. He is looking after Hubs
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: The "nested terms" and "keywords" issues are basically results of thinking like a coder, with a few regular expressions.
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Qie drop Blondin a note, he does something with infohubs
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Thanks, Jack.
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: It's like the 90s all over again. :D
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Sorry, so much text, and IMs, and notecards and and
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, a lot of folks are behind NATs, so it is really hard to sort out the bots from the real people who just happen to be congregating behind a router firewall
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: Blondin only deals were certain aspects of the infohubs..
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: jack hire some bots :)
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]] tosses a virtual match at the pile that is covering Jack :P
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: But Tal, surely IPv6 will solve all our problems with NAT... *nodnod*
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Yes, I'm giggling about that too. :p
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Hubs come under Land, which is my area, and Blondin is handling the immediate improvements we want to make there
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Okay so folks, I have to dash to my next meeting.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Cheers Jack
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Many thanks as always!
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: thanks Jack
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: OK. Progress or death!
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: yes, but not things like content..the build..missing pieces of the hub..etc
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Have fun storming the castle!
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: Just remember in terms of Bots Jack: Linden Lab is not obligated to allow access to the Servers by any software that is not provided by Linden Lab, and you agree to cease using, creating, distributing or providing any such software at the request of Linden Lab.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: have fun jack :)
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: unless companies, most peopel are not behind NATs and surely not a problem if 1,2 or even 3 AVs come from the same router/IP ... but 100? or even more?
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: Take care Jack
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: and governance...blondin doesn't handle at the hubs
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Inara Marquette|Inara Marquette]]: I thought it was Cake of Death? :)
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Inara Marquette|Inara Marquette]]: or*
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: :) farewell!
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: bye jack...thanks..
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: be happy about that pulse :)
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Chaos: When you find a sufficient Turing test for bots, let us know. I've been in their position. It's /hard/.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: bye Jack
</div></div>

<div id='box' style='text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em;'>
Generated by [http://kuraiko.zeitenwerk.de/wikify.php SL Chatlog Wikify]
</div>

[[Category:Jack Linden Office Hours]]

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2008-06-25

2009-04-23T20:32:27Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: New page: 13:04] Carricre Wind: does it pay? :) [13:04] Qie Niangao: any news on Rail, Jack? [13:04] Jack Linden: yes it does! [13:04] Jack Linden: USD$10 per hour [13:04] Carricre Wind: hmmmm,...

13:04] Carricre Wind: does it pay? :)
[13:04] Qie Niangao: any news on Rail, Jack?
[13:04] Jack Linden: yes it does!
[13:04] Jack Linden: USD$10 per hour
[13:04] Carricre Wind: hmmmm, interesting :)
[13:04] Carricre Wind: I'll sign up then, I'm only far to busy :)
[13:05] Jack Linden: Qie, Michael would know more on that, but I know he has been talking to a lot of people about rail scripts and so on
[13:05] Qie Niangao: thanks.
[13:05] Arawn Spitteler's not very skilled, but will apply anyways
[13:05] Jack Linden: it's possible we may use a blank stretch of roadway for rail
[13:05] Wurlitzer Seisenbacher is Online
[13:06] Jack Linden: okay, so that's me done. who has something they want to ask or talk about?
[13:06] Austin Hallard: i do jack
[13:06] Jack Linden: go Austin
[13:06] Jack Linden: :)
[13:07] Austin Hallard: ive prepared a statement actually to set the record straight on a land related issue
[13:07] Ancient Shriner: <looks expectently)
[13:07] Austin Hallard: I operate Primlands, a successful company which buys and sells small parcels of land, typically called
micro-parcels. My business is nothing short of 100% ethical. I am a productive member of the community and
have never broken the TOS.
[13:07] Rem Nightfire: does it have anything to do with extortion?
[13:07] Austin Hallard: I have found most people are completely understanding, supportive, or simply indifferent to the micro-parcel
business. There is a very small group of people behind the entire anti-ad protest (the rest are just newbies
that joined under peer pressure, many not even knowing what these people are doing). Some of the leaders of
these griefers are just people who want my land for free. Its really just that simple, and a close analysis of
their chat logs will prove this beyond any doubt.
[13:07] Austin Hallard: Unlike me, these protesters break the TOS constantly. Parcel encroachment, blackmail, harassment, intimidation,
and stalking are but a few of their crimes. A common tactic of these griefers is to drop a large object or tree
over my land and then try to blackmail me into giving them the land for a lower price or for free. Of course , I
never give in to these griefers and AR them immediately. Many of these griefers have rap sheets a mile long and
should be permanently banned from SL.
[13:08] Ancient Shriner: Hear Hear!
[13:08] Austin Hallard: The main argument of these griefers is their claim of extortion. There is no extortion, I can assure you. I
have never used any type of inducement to sell my parcels. I buy land and I sell land, and that is all. If
they think the price is high, they are under no obligation to buy it. Simply having a price which someone
considers high is not extortion. Extortion involves some kind of pressure or denial of an essential service,
neither of which apply to this situation. There is no extortion.
[13:08] You: Oh here we go again, would be great if there was ever any other subject discussed here
[13:08] Ancient Shriner: <stops floor with cane>
[13:08] Qie Niangao: Oh, Ancient, supporting the extortion now, are we?
[13:08] Austin Hallard: I saw an ad parcel (240 m aprox) sell in Bay City for over 100,000 L$. Either Linden Lab is in the extortion
business or else these griefers have a screw loose. You decide. Its one or the other, it doesnt go both ways.
[13:08] Timo Daehlie: 1495 L$ for a 16m2 is extortion Austin ..
[13:08] Rem Nightfire: try 2995
[13:08] Talarus Luan: 4995
[13:08] Timo Daehlie: 4995 too
[13:08] You: Well you know damn well that people arent buying those parcels to build homes on
[13:09] Austin Hallard: These anti-ad griefers have no rights to anothers land, nor do they have any right to harass me constantly and
to tie up the lindens valuable time with false AR's. Another tactic of theirs is come here and tie up all YOUR
time , using the same arguments week after week, and not giving honest residents a chance to come and speak on
real issues.
[13:09] Ancient Shriner: So you are saying we can't use the parcels for ads . . . only for home building
[13:09] Rem Nightfire: you buy them inspots that make life difficult for neighboring landowners
[13:09] Austin Hallard: My solution is simple and will ultimately save the Lindens alot of time. Anyone filing a false AR should
themself be punished. This fits into the already existing TOS. For example, these protesters brag about filing
ARs against me simply because they think my price is high. They are wasting the Lindens time with this, since
there is nothing in the TOS governing the pricing of parcels (nor should there ever be). Since they are
knowingly trying to tarnish my good reputation by making false claims, they should be punished. Once this
happens a few times, they will stop and the situation will return to normal.
[13:09] You: Make it sound as pretty as you'd like, tos or not we all know what your doing even you
[13:09] SL Exchange Magic Box black: SL Exchange - Delivered item Basic Black Heels Boxed.
[13:09] Austin Hallard: Thank you for your time Jack. If you ever want to discuss this in more detail, please feel free to IM me. I
will send you a copy of my statement for your records, along with my email, should you wish to contact me via
that medium.
[13:10] Talarus Luan: The office hours are for all of us, and we don't monopolize it. We maintain presence to keep the issue at the very forefront, so that is all a load of BS.
[13:10] You: You want a sticker for staying in the tos, I'll make one up for you
[13:10] Chrischun Fassbinder: Ancient, I'd hope not, vendors on small parcels? That's another very popular use for years now.
[13:10] Ancient Shriner: Uncalled for Talarus
[13:10] Talarus Luan: Accurate
[13:10] Ancient Shriner: Uncivilized
[13:10] Jack Linden: I'm thinking austin is afaster typist than I am :) Austin.. thanks for that, and if you can drop me that feedback on a notecard that would be helpful
[13:10] Talarus Luan: Truth hurts. :)
[13:10] PulseBurst Flow: whoa...the balls...a micro-land extortionist complianing about quality of life on thier land.
[13:10] You: You can't be upset for the rep you get because of your actions, so what is it your going for here?
[13:10] Fontte Newbold: Nah, that's a prepared statement, Jack.
[13:10] Austin Hallard: will do jack, and yes i prepared it ahead of time :)
[13:10] Fontte Newbold: Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V. :)
[13:11] Timo Daehlie: strange perspective anyway..
[13:11] Austin Hallard: somebody needed to put forth the facts
[13:11] Jack Linden: I would really prefer not to get into ad-farming or that whole debate this week. we've done it to death now and nothing has changed on our side
[13:11] Talarus Luan: ..and we are still waiting
[13:11] Rem Nightfire: you should be ashamed of your tactics austin
[13:11] Fontte Newbold: I don't think you're going to have people "punished" for false ARs.
[13:11] Talarus Luan: Why is that, Jack?
[13:11] Dytska Vieria: What about ban lines on 16sqm for sale at 9999??
[13:11] You: Ok you sell thim lots along the road that are only large enough for one purpose. Your a great guy, point taken
[13:11] Fontte Newbold: Because (1) they're not, and (2) there's better things to enforce with Linden time.
[13:11] Timo Daehlie: he doesnt advertise at al l .. he only cuts to extort ..
[13:11] Talarus Luan: What is it going to take to get some movement on this issue?
[13:11] PulseBurst Flow: Jack..it's not ad farming if they don't put up ads. It's extortion farming.
[13:12] Austin Hallard: linden lab has never heard the other side of the story, thats my point. the real facts.
[13:12] Talarus Luan: Do you need 10,000 residents here at your OH?
[13:12] Ancient Shriner: what if they don't sell at all? Ever?
[13:12] Ancient Shriner: is THAT extortion?
[13:12] Rem Nightfire: the dark side of the story
[13:12] Arawn Spitteler: Advertising is worth something, as exemplified by those honest hardworking camp-bots, another subject we shouldn't belabor.
[13:12] Qie Niangao: no, that's bankruptcy
[13:12] Jack Linden: as we've been through before, we absolutely understand the issues here, and i have an inbox and inv full of really good feedback on this.
[13:12] Flea Bussy is Offline
[13:12] Ancient Shriner: only for people who can't figure out a business model Qie
[13:13] You: So what other land related issues can we talk about today?

[13:13] Jack Linden: we are discussing it, we don't have anything we can share publicly, but as soon as we do, we will blog first of all
[13:13] Fontte Newbold: The more important case to be made is said microparcels being raised to insane rates come at the direct expense of landowners in that native sim, and only have that sort of value being there in the first place.
[13:13] Fontte Newbold: from being there ^
[13:13] Qie Niangao: (Ancient, we're probably talking past each other; I was talking about the extortion parcels not selling, and you were talking about ad plots. sorry for confusion)
[13:13] Jack Linden: Dytska.. ban lines is an issue, I agree. we've seen a steep increase in that lately
[13:14] Cytherea Eagle: We have the same rights under Ll TOS and TOC as anyone else in SL
[13:14] Fontte Newbold: It's almost textbook griefing of the margins, unless you're being reasonable to them, or are setting rates that don't fall well outside the normal bounds of supply and demand.
[13:14] Jack Linden: I would prefer ban lines to be something a resident can opt out of seeing
[13:14] Talarus Luan: ..for the moment.
[13:14] You: So then whats your problem?
[13:14] Austin Hallard: this is my point, every week these griefers show up and raise the issue, sure its been talked to death, but only by them.
[13:14] Dytska Vieria: well it's flying past the ban lines that my land surrounds that is the problem.
[13:14] Timo Daehlie: hi cytherea ;)
[13:14] You: You want the Lindens to make the community happy about what you do to them?
[13:14] Fontte Newbold: I find your definition of "griefer" disturbing. :)
[13:14] Talarus Luan: Well, you're hear talking it to death, now, too. :)
[13:14] Talarus Luan: *here
[13:14] Dytska Vieria is NOT a griefer.
[13:15] Rem Nightfire: you are the greifer austin plain and simple
[13:15] Cytherea Eagle: there are more better ways to protest than grief
[13:15] Jack Linden: so. can we perhaps move onto something else?
[13:15] Talarus Luan: We're not griefing here. We are talking.
[13:15] PulseBurst Flow: OK..Jack..
[13:15] You: You choose to do what you do to the community and the mainland, so you should have no problem accepting the reputation you have gotten
[13:15] Arawn Spitteler's said before: The only real Griefer has no sense of humor.
[13:15] Chrischun Fassbinder: I thought we already had extortion, by charging high-prices for small parcels delt with, outlawed and being taken care of. Should make the issue of extortists existing mute, unless LL is finding it impossible to manage dealing with said people?
[13:16] Fontte Newbold: Given the issue isn't getting much traction, I somewhat agree. It sounds to me like there should be a special session on the issue, specifically.
[13:16] You: You want to fight about the terms you have gotten? You want to TOS changed to take away the names you dont like?
[13:16] Cytherea Eagle: Hello Timo
[13:16] Carly Looming: Hiya Morrigan ^^
[13:16] PulseBurst Flow: Hello Cytherea
[13:16] Morrigan Liebling: hyia
[13:16] Cytherea Eagle: Hello Pulse
[13:17] You: You want to be liked do something good for the community and stop destroying the mainland
[13:17] Arawn Spitteler is wondering how to promote tourist trap, of recent construction
[13:17] Cytherea Eagle: Greetins Qie
[13:17] Qie Niangao: greetings, Cytherea
[13:17] Rem Nightfire: so about the roads jack, any thoughts on controlling ad towers along them?
[13:17] Ancient Shriner: Arawn, use our ad networks, your traffic will increase if you offer something the community desires
[13:17] Austin Hallard: jack said lets move on , so lets move on sarah, rem or you have difficulty understanding?
[13:17] PulseBurst Flow: Sarah..it's cause the rules are insufficiant
[13:17] Carricre Wind: control is a slippery slope
[13:17] Rem Nightfire: cute
[13:17] PulseBurst Flow: Lindens have to do more.
[13:17] PulseBurst Flow: I think
[13:18] You: I understand a dick when I see one?
[13:18] Jack Linden: hehe Rem. not sure that's quite away from the topic but no.. we're not going to control what landowners choose to use their land for alongside roads, within the normal rules of course
[13:18] Rem Nightfire: i understand you all too well austin
[13:18] Cytherea Eagle: thats the key word...how far are we all ... even LL wanting to push "control"
[13:18] Rem Nightfire: ok well maybe they should be rednamed to ad alleys or something
[13:18] Fontte Newbold: It'd be handy if the LDPW planned for roadside advertising, instead of having ads being able to pop up at the margins.
[13:18] Timo Daehlie: austin : you called me your lover in your land description .... is that griefing too ?
[13:18] You: So there you got what you want Austin with the TOS, Lindens cant make residents happy about what you do
[13:18] hanael Mills is Offline
[13:18] Ancient Shriner: how is it ok for the Anti-ad folks to call what people say BS and call them dicks?
[13:19] Ancient Shriner: I thought this place was for discussion, not insults
[13:19] Talarus Luan: Well, Gambling has been controlled, "banking" has been controlled, pyramid scams have been controlled. Control is necessary when people can't seem to control themselves.
[13:19] You: AR me for hurting your feelings
[13:19] Jack Linden: Fontte, planning for it wouldn't really change the fact that landowners can elect to do what they wish
[13:19] PulseBurst Flow: Jack, I'd say move on..but then again..this is a very unresolved issue..
[13:20] PulseBurst Flow: the actions in February..were insufficient
[13:20] You: So are estate prices going to remain the same for awhile?
[13:20] Dytska Vieria: I think a LL login survey or poll about add farms opinion would be nice to get a general feeling of the population as a whole.
[13:20] Talarus Luan: Yeah, we can keep "moving on", but it will keep coming back. It's like a grid issue.. stamping "[RESOLVED]" on it won't make the underlying problem go away.
[13:20] Carricre Wind: want them to tell you how you can dress your avatar too Talarus? I mean, where *should* it stop?
[13:20] Chrischun Fassbinder: Good to clarification between advertising and extortion being made. Pulse, agreed more need to be done to curb those turning high profits from flipping of small parcels bought out of despiration.
[13:20] Arawn Spitteler regards it as the sort of non-progressing issue, that gives Drama a bad name: I was also looking for that Guitar Construction video, if anyone remembers it.
[13:20] Squirrel Wood: that survey would likely end up one-sided. against them.
[13:21] Talarus Luan: If dressing my avatar causes the majority of residents grief (which can be done, I assure you), then yes.
[13:21] Talarus Luan: In fact, the ToS already controls what you can wear in many places.
[13:21] Austin Hallard: I saw an ad parcel (240 m aprox) sell in Bay City for over 100,000 L$. Either Linden Lab is in the extortion
business or else these griefers have a screw loose. You decide. Its one or the other, it doesnt go both ways.
[13:21] Fontte Newbold: Well Jack, it was more in the hopes that a form of compromise would come to the issue. As it exists now, it makes certain residents paranoid to know someone can "own" a parcel for a few pennies right next to their build and leach upon them.
[13:21] Rem Nightfire: can LL put up a log in poll about ad towers jack?
[13:21] Talarus Luan: Austin.. red herring. Bay City plots were auctioned.
[13:21] Fontte Newbold: Or, in doing so, prevent them from buying more of the land in the sim.
[13:22] Jack Linden: Fontte... I suspect that we will be at least partially addressing this by zoning, which we see as a natural part of our development to offer more choice about the kind of mainland experience people get
[13:22] Chrischun Fassbinder: Fontte, if they're not allowed to sell at high prices, why would they wish to buy a large number of parcels in the same sim?
[13:22] Fontte Newbold: Part of the problem is people who wish to expand operations on the mainland are unable to do so cleanly because of tiny parcels raised to unrealistic rates.
[13:22] Fontte Newbold: Fair enough.
[13:22] Austin Hallard: the problem isnt ads, its just a small handful of griefers who wont let the issue go even though it was fixed back in february. they have nothing else to do and theres also the issue that they simply want my land for free.
[13:22] Talarus Luan: Zoning won't apply to over 4000 sims, Jack.
[13:22] Jack Linden: so a zoned 'no advertising' area would be a way for people to choose to opt out of that fear
[13:23] Jack Linden: Talarus, that depends.
[13:23] You: So what do you suggest Austin?
[13:23] Talarus Luan looks around "who wants Austin's land for free? Seriously, now?"
[13:23] Carricre Wind: that's a suicidal way of thinking I feel Talarus, I mean, myself I pay a lot of money for my servers from LL, and frankly, I'll be damned if I'd let them tell me what I can and can't build on them, I'd simply cancel the subscription if it came to that
[13:23] Fontte Newbold: The thing is, Chrischun, it's not "a large number of parcels in the same sim", so much as "a large number of the minimum size directly in the path of development"
[13:23] Jack Linden: applying zoning retrospectively is very hard, it's something we are thinking about
[13:23] Squirrel Wood: open mike...
[13:23] Jack Linden: (someone has their mic open by the way.. i hear much typing)
[13:24] Talarus Luan: Well, considering that the zoning, as you have mentioned it, will apply only to new mainland (in theory, admittedly), it kinda goes without saying that the 4000+ existing sims will turn into a wasteland
[13:24] You: Austin do you have real issue here to discuss other then the fact that you dont like the reputation you have built for yourself? Lindens cant fix that
[13:24] Fontte Newbold: Anyway, re, zoning: It's more or less inevitable for shared land.
[13:24] Austin Hallard: zoning requires enforcement, what a waste of time and money. i suggest enforcing the TOS as it stands against these anti-ad protesters. they have numerous TOS violations on their record, lets just get rid of them so we can forget the issue
[13:24] Chrischun Fassbinder: Fontte, yes or time passes and they end up in the middle of people's land, that's land flux for you. I swap for locations less in people's way, know other legit advertisders who do the same, those we ask L$ to be bought out are the problem, not those trying to provide useful services.
[13:24] You: You buy roadside lots, dump the large section below cost and set the 16 meter wide part against the road high.
[13:25] Talarus Luan: Carricre.. are your servers private estates?
[13:25] Fontte Newbold: These are pretty much why real-world cities are all zoned and have very specific rules regarding builds. Which sucks for taking away freedoms, but prevents some of the more obvious "open" and "nefarious" misuses of land.
[13:25] Carricre Wind: yep, they are

[13:25] Talarus Luan: Then none of this applies to you
[13:25] Talarus Luan: This is all about mainland
[13:25] You: Thats your solution Austin? Get rid of the majority of the community so a few ad lot dealers and cutters can live happily?
[13:25] Talarus Luan: Private estates are yours.
[13:25] Austin Hallard: more places like bay city gives an option for those who want something thats tightly controlled.
[13:25] Rem Nightfire: lets get rid of land extortionists
[13:26] Austin Hallard: for the rest of us, we like the mainland BECAUSE OF THE FREEDOM
[13:26] Carricre Wind: and exactly how long before "mainland" only rules become rules on private islands? I say it matters a lot to me
[13:26] PulseBurst Flow: yes..Rem, I agree.
[13:26] Talarus Luan: Mainland is a "Commons", and what is being committed here is a Tragedy of the Commons.
[13:26] Drongle McMahon: Austin, perhaps you wou;d care to tell us who buys your high-priced parcels and what you condider motivates them to do so?
[13:26] Timo Daehlie: helping harmless residents i wouldnt not consider as a tos violation ..
[13:26] Austin Hallard: i dont answer to you
[13:26] You: Then go have fun with that freedom and stop crying because people think your scum because of the way you abuse that freedom
[13:26] Talarus Luan: They won't, because you are the estate manager and what you say goes on your land.
[13:26] Austin Hallard: im here to talk to jack
[13:26] Timo Daehlie: how kind ..
[13:26] PulseBurst Flow: get a room
[13:26] Drongle McMahon: I thought you were here to discuss
[13:27] Carricre Wind: really? I can run a casino on my islands? or a bank?
[13:27] Carricre Wind smiles
[13:27] Fontte Newbold: Ouch.
[13:27] Cytherea Eagle: yawn
[13:27] Talarus Luan: True, you still have to answer to the ToS, but the changes being asked for are *specifically* targetting the mainland.
[13:27] kimmy5186 Wind is Offline
[13:27] Jack Linden: so. i'm going out on a limb here and suggesting we might not all agree on this one. perhaps we can move onto other topics?
[13:27] Talarus Luan: If you or any of the ad network peeps here what to make a private estate full of ads, that's cool.
[13:27] Rem Nightfire: haha
[13:28] Carricre Wind: yes, currently, but given that it won't take long before it becomes grid wide, I'm suing for sanity
[13:28] Talarus Luan: So are we
[13:28] Rem Nightfire: log in poll jack - on ad towers?
[13:28] Chrischun Fassbinder: Talarus, way to blur the line between extortists and legit advertisers. Keep it up!
[13:28] Talarus Luan: The present situation is insane
[13:28] Arawn Spitteler's sure that Jack has heard Austin, and Telerus too: It might be funny, at SL6B, if Telerus gets a 4X4, with a large spinning pink megasign announcing, "This Lot AVailable for ONLY L$100,000,000"
[13:28] PulseBurst Flow: So, Jack..about roads...Lindens auto-rez trees on new land..then auction it..new owners can clear trees..but not trees in road..which might never be built.
[13:28] Talarus Luan: Will do, Chris. :D
[13:28] Fontte Newbold: It's been a topic running for over three years. Suffice it to say people will continue to not agree so long as their plots can be "griefed" on the margins. :p
[13:28] You: You guys havent made snow sims in ages. Any more of them coming in the future?
[13:28] kimmy5186 Wind is Online
[13:28] Drongle McMahon: Jack. As Austin declines to answer my question, I invite you to condsider the reasons yourself.
[13:29] Jack Linden: Pulse.. correct. the tree thing is awkward. the autoplanter script is a bit ermm eager sometimes.
[13:29] Fontte Newbold: Didn't the Snow Sims die because people had devalued them?
[13:29] Fontte Newbold: I seem to recall them for going below market rate.
[13:29] Austin Hallard: drongle, i ignored yoru question because you are a griefer and need to be ejected from sl and are not worthy of an answer
[13:29] Qie Niangao: hehehe... I know two roadway trees within 0.5m of each other
[13:29] PulseBurst Flow: yes..and support..depending on who you get..won't clear, or make it like a big favor..and don't ask again
[13:29] You: since value on them has gone up a lot if you can find good clean ad free snow its more valuable than green
[13:30] Jack Linden: Snow sims did drop at one point, though now they have come back as there are relatively few of them compared to the mainland
[13:30] You: I'm sorry but you know its funny when an ad lot cutter argues ethics in sl
[13:30] Drongle McMahon: Austin, You have never met me and have no justification for gratuitous insult. I asked you a polite question.
[13:30] PulseBurst Flow: I was told "just cause I'm a nice guy, but don't ask for this sort of thing again"
[13:30] Jack Linden: snow regions always make me shiver but they are super pretty in places
[13:30] PulseBurst Flow: cause damn scripted tree-spitter Lindens use leaves trees in right of way
[13:31] Fontte Newbold: Ohhh yes, they are.
[13:31] Fontte Newbold: Perhaps put out the question for them on the blog?
[13:31] Dytska Vieria: If megaprims are eventually allowed, what is to prevent an add farmer to create a 4x4x100m tower?
[13:31] Jack Linden: The first time i used the tree planter in anger, i managed to carpetbomb 3 regions with so many trees that they ran out of prims. and of course you can't group select them
[13:31] Jack Linden: that was a looong night
[13:31] PulseBurst Flow: lol
[13:31] Carricre Wind finds it funny when a lot of people cry out "we want our rights, so limit someone elses" (hates ad farmers too, it's why she left the mainland long ago)
[13:31] Talarus Luan: Doh
[13:31] Qie Niangao: Dytska, I've got a 4x4x80m fullbright tower next door. it's lovely
[13:32] Qie Niangao weeps
[13:32] Timo Daehlie: Jack .. will there be a dutch version of llc's official website in future ? a lot of our people still have diffciculties woth foreign languages ..
[13:32] Talarus Luan: Don't want to limit "rights", we want to limit abuse of said rights.
[13:32] Carricre Wind: wow, tree bombs, that could be a fun idea.....
[13:32] Timo Daehlie: woth=wtih
[13:32] You: You might want to talk to Yohan Pintens he has a cool planting system now for landmachine that randomly plants 30 plants per 1024
[13:32] Fontte Newbold: Carricre: Well, when those rights are zero-sum, as in the case of parcel [ab]use, that tends to happen. ;)
[13:32] You: It's an awesoem tool
[13:32] Jack Linden: Timo, great question. we're just completing some translation work on various bits of the website.. and have a solution for translating the knowledgebase too
[13:33] Chrischun Fassbinder: Qie, is it for sale? Have you contacted them to swap? If they're trying to sell for much more than going just AR them, right cause that's extortion bringing in their returns, not advertising.
[13:33] Carricre Wind: got an LM for that Sarah?
[13:33] Jack Linden: so i expect you'll see a lot more localised content over Q3
[13:33] Austin Hallard: Jack i think it would be much better if the linden roadways had no trees at all. Often they encroach on residents land , which then becomes a support issue.
[13:33] Timo Daehlie: great ! ;)
[13:33] Rem Nightfire: hahahahaha
[13:33] Qie Niangao: unfortunately it's only L$320... yes, I could buy it, but then it just moves to the next one, and the next one. I AR'd it, but no response.
[13:33] Fontte Newbold: I wonder how well Google translates those pages.
[13:33] You: I have a landmark for landmachine.com but youd need to talk to him directly if its just about the planter
[13:33] Jack Linden: Austin, yes they can be a problem but we get a lot of requests for trees. i mean, a lot, on any Gov Linden land
[13:34] Morrigan Liebling: for translations in google: not very well
[13:34] Jack Linden: and hand planting them would be too slow
[13:34] Dytska Vieria: How about making some NEW tree designs?
[13:34] Rem Nightfire: how many requests for ad towers?
[13:34] Morrigan Liebling: it's word for word, literally
[13:34] Carricre Wind accepted your inventory offer.
[13:34] PulseBurst Flow: I agree..no trees in roads
[13:34] Carricre Wind: ah, thanks Sarah :)
[13:34] Fontte Newbold: Well, the script can and should be able to detect encroachment issues o_O
[13:34] Chrischun Fassbinder: right, doing the trick of having only one or few for sale at lower but still high prices, with lots waiting to get cut or already cut and going up. So that's the real problem? near impossible with current rules to ban extortists hiding as fake advertisers because too many loop holes?
[13:34] You: You really should look at what he has its really fun. You drop a prim and it goes off on its own and plants its qouta and then dies
[13:34] Timo Daehlie: it works on waterfront too ;)
[13:35] Jack Linden: sarah, who has that?
[13:35] Fontte Newbold: I've written a few of those, Sarah. They are fun. :D
[13:35] You: Yohan Pintens
[13:35] Austin Hallard: chrischun are your ads still for sale for 10000 L$?
[13:35] Jack Linden: hmm, interesting
[13:35] Fontte Newbold: Including one that planted trees in "seed groups" to make the effect more realistic.
[13:35] You: I have one I can show you but its not trans. I could show you on a lot though
[13:35] Qie Niangao: Chrischun, I'm at a loss at this point to know what the "real problem" is. it just pops up wherever one pushes.

[13:35] Jack Linden: how rapid is it? we often have 50+ regions to do in one go
[13:36] Fontte Newbold: Are you guys still using Ben's planter?
[13:36] Chrischun Fassbinder: Nope, haven't sold any since LL outlawed selling of microparcels for high prices. Not worth my time, so now I just swap at my own cost of time Feel free to visit, http://www.mlghk.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=8c06a47eba924b4eedbab5c... if you need a swap.
[13:36] You: Takes a few moments but all that you need to do is drag it from inventory and move on and your done
[13:36] Squirrel Wood: terraforming? I terraform sims. even multiple sims. :p

[13:36] You: If you have landmachine you dont even need to do that much
[13:37] Chrischun Fassbinder: Qie, the real problem is extortists still finding it profitable to flip-microparcels out of despiration sales.
[13:37] Rem Nightfire: its outlawed to sell small plots for high prices? wht isnt austin in the pokey?
[13:37] Austin Hallard: there is nothing regulating prices of land chrischun, the ad farm blog simply made it so you cant sell your land with your mr lee ad on it
[13:37] Austin Hallard: or your diaper bags
[13:37] Drongle McMahon: It's not outlawed....only in association with advertisments.
[13:38] Rem Nightfire: ah too bad
[13:38] GnuSense Shepherd: Would you like a complimentary DiaperBag?
[13:38] Chrischun Fassbinder: Yet another loop hole, they'll just put something use annoying on the land that isn't an ad.
[13:38] Chrischun Fassbinder: else annoying
[13:38] PulseBurst Flow: like ban lines
[13:38] Rem Nightfire: like k mans turd rocks
[13:38] Chrischun Fassbinder: Right, like ban lines.
[13:38] You: I like ban lines a lot more than ads personally
[13:39] You: I think if you took away the red ban lines people would be happy
[13:39] Fontte Newbold: Banlines are definitely in style.
[13:39] You: still allow banning just take away the ugly wall

[13:39] Fontte Newbold: It'd be nice to disallow banlines on a 16m. That seems like one fair compromise.
[13:39] Fontte Newbold: I still want the ability to ignore parcels as well. :x
[13:39] Qie Niangao: Sarah, not for microparcels... there's no conceivable reason roadside or embedded parcels under 256sq.m. need banlines.
[13:39] Dytska Vieria: You would think differently if you had land surrounding the banlines and crash in to them all the time.
[13:40] Drongle McMahon: What can be the point of banlines on a 16m plot?
[13:40] GnuSense Shepherd: Agreed Qie
[13:40] Jack Linden: making ban lines toggled is definitely possible
[13:40] Chrischun Fassbinder: Jack, why hasn't LL used the most commonly suggested, for years now, solution, which is to set a maximum per meter sale price for smaller sized parcels?
[13:40] Jack Linden: and probably quite easy
[13:40] You: If you didnt see the red flasshing wall then why would it natter if they banned?
[13:40] Jack Linden: liek parcel lines
[13:40] You: matter*
[13:40] Jack Linden: *like
[13:40] Dytska Vieria: I like the listing fee as a percentage of the parcel price.
[13:41] PulseBurst Flow: yes, the problem also..4x4 s that are not contiguous..are grouped.to evade any rules might come up.
[13:41] Dytska Vieria: LL charges for group listings....
[13:41] Jack Linden: Chrischun, because we would rather not interfere with the land market in that way
[13:41] You: You could still have privacy without pissing off the neighbors with a flashing wall
[13:41] PulseBurst Flow: we all know..and people right here do it
[13:41] Qie Niangao: Sarah, banlines make vehicles even harder to use than otherwise, on roads, and just get in the way when they're in the middle of your parcel and you have to navigate around them.
[13:41] Austin Hallard: all your answers involve restrictions, curtailing rights and freedoms. chrischun is just here to try pushing his monopoly idea for his guild. you will never get it cc.
[13:41] You: You dont have to drive threw peoples yards
[13:41] Fontte Newbold: I suspect if a cap were ever set you'd end up with certain people that put a donation box on the land with a preset price, in lieu of sale through the normal system :x
[13:42] You: Planes go above ban lines
[13:42] Drongle McMahon: jack. That is an impossible claim ... you control tier ... that has the greatest effect on the land market.
[13:42] You: raods are linden owned
[13:42] Chrischun Fassbinder: Jack, understandable, but the land market, least mainland, is suffering far more interferance from failing to act on the wide spread blight caused by small parcels designed to grief sale.
[13:42] Qie Niangao: Sarah, have you tried driving the roads in H4? one is lucky to make it across a sim border intact, let alone on the road.
[13:43] Fontte Newbold: What Qie said ^
[13:43] Jack Linden: Oh i don't say we don't control land market to some degree, but we'd rather not control it in that way. many people do own 16m parcels, for good reasons, and suddenly restricting their sell on price isn't something we want to do
[13:43] You: Being able to drive on other peoples propertys is more important than privacy?
[13:43] Qie Niangao: for a microparcel? *what* privacy???
[13:43] Dytska Vieria: well, don't restrict it, charge a listing fee.
[13:43] Carricre Wind: that wouldn't be an issue if connected servers (read:regions) used distributed processing
[13:43] Fontte Newbold: I do think restricting their banlines or offering the ability to selectively ignore property is the compromise. Or one of the easier ones.
[13:44] Drongle McMahon: Agreed .. there are legitimate users.
[13:44] Carricre Wind: the vehicle thinkg I mean
[13:44] Carricre Wind: ^thing
[13:44] Jack Linden: Dytska,that would just be a sales tax effectively, so has the same effect
[13:44] You: Yea theres no need to ban on a 16, but I do think taking away the uglay ban walls would be a huge improvment
[13:44] Dytska Vieria: I pay for group listings every week.
[13:44] You: Just make them invisable
[13:44] Drongle McMahon: But Sarah ... you still crash into them.
[13:45] You: I can win then, because thats the only suggestion I have
[13:45] PulseBurst Flow: Sarah..there are people who have mainland who want to allow public access..privacy is not an issue..but cut up and scattered ban lines littering the sim, for people to bump into..is a problem
[13:45] Squirrel Wood: take them away as in invisible and people will wonder why they cannot enter the parcel
[13:45] Austin Hallard: how about using good looking signs chrischun/ancient shriner? maybe if you put up better looking signs then people wouldnt mind so much.
[13:45] Cytherea Eagle: you don't see them unless you are right up on them anyway. Maybe you should file an AR wil LL that it is extorting your view.
[13:45] Dytska Vieria: And those certain "4 CORNERS" 16sqm parcels with bonus banlines are a real mess to navigate out of.
[13:45] Ciaran Laval: They get a message, ban lines are a griefing tool
[13:46] Talarus Luan: Pretty easy to fix... no banlines allowed on any parcel smaller than X size. *shrug* They just don't work.
[13:46] Fontte Newbold: Re, that blatant attack on better looking signs: People don't like flashing billboard ads and eyegrabbers.
[13:46] Qie Niangao: yeah, i've seen terraforming as griefing, too.
[13:46] Chrischun Fassbinder: Austin, I'm always interested in suggestions along those lines, feel free to drop me a note with your suggestions. :)
[13:46] You: bumping is an inconvenience but not a huge problem or as bad as red flashing CAN NOT ENTER over and over
[13:46] PulseBurst Flow: Cythera..would you object if they make ban lines invisible? or would you support that?
[13:46] Fontte Newbold: It's why Google does so well.
[13:46] Fontte Newbold: Text ads and text search.
[13:46] Fontte Newbold: But eh.
[13:46] Chrischun Fassbinder: Because much of the web is text based.
[13:47] Fontte Newbold: Shouldn't the Search system deprecate the need to have ad farms anyway? o_O
[13:47] Ciaran Laval: Ad farms aren't abouts ads
[13:47] Cytherea Eagle: I have no opinion on the matter Pulse
[13:47] Fontte Newbold: (If it were working...)
[13:47] Talarus Luan: One would think
[13:47] Ancient Shriner: Visual display advertising works . . . just go into any large city . . . there is no replacement for it
[13:47] Austin Hallard: Jack what about these signs used by the ad guild? they seem very heavy on lag. all that metrics, seems a little overdone
[13:47] PulseBurst Flow: ok..thanks..well, something to think abou
[13:48] Fontte Newbold: There was another thread on the forums talking about tying script scheduling to parcel ownership.
[13:48] Ancient Shriner: Austin, I'll take any lag test you wish and prove to you beyone any doubt that our few hundred lines of code cause no appreciable lag to a sim
[13:48] Austin Hallard: 1 never get lag along roadsides until i bump into one of chrischuns signs
[13:48] Fontte Newbold: I happen to like that idea.
[13:48] Melodie Darwin: what about using sensors in their ads that count the neighbors who are stuck next to them? Its spying
[13:48] Chrischun Fassbinder: Ciaran, agreed "ad farms" are not about ads, or they wouldn't have a bunch of ads all together in one area. Wide distributed advertising works when it's a selective location, with one or at most a couple locations within a sim. Again, clear difference exists between legit advertising and those hiding beind advertising as an excuse to flip microparcels for high prices.
[13:48] Jack Linden: Audtin, i'm not aware of how much script use etc any particular sign causes. if there is one that you're concerned about, drop me the region and coords
[13:48] Ancient Shriner: Hear Hear!
[13:49] Jack Linden: *Austin
[13:49] Chrischun Fassbinder: Austin, how can you bump into my ads? They're all phantom. :)
[13:49] You: I would think advertising in busy clubs and high traffic areas would be a lot more effective than advertisng to the few people who live around the ad lot
[13:49] Talarus Luan: If that were true, then why don't you all take a page from that playbook. There are sims I see 2, 3, more of TAG's billboards.
[13:49] Austin Hallard: because the whole world starts to lag and sputter near your sign cc.
[13:49] Talarus Luan: Qie's Route 1 tour showed it very well.
[13:50] Ancient Shriner: That's patently false Austin
[13:50] Austin Hallard: it doesnt happen near cythereas signs or empire advertising, or any of the others
[13:50] Ancient Shriner: I'll bet you hard currency you are incorrect Austin
[13:50] Chrischun Fassbinder: Sarah, yes that's another form of main land distrubuted advertising that works as well. I'm sure you know, running a Freebie Warehouse as well, (nice name isn't it) that I run ads at mine with good results targeted towards newer residents.
[13:50] Arawn Spitteler: Client Server o rConnection LAg?
[13:50] Cytherea Eagle: my signs are 75% passive
[13:50] Talarus Luan: meh.. you mean the lag-inducing temp-rezzers monstrosities? Puh-leeze
[13:50] Ancient Shriner: we have no temp-rezzor monstrosities
[13:50] Ancient Shriner: point one one
[13:50] Ancient Shriner: out
[13:50] Talarus Luan: Talking to Austin, Ancient
[13:50] Fontte Newbold: Difference is those areas are opt-in, Chrischun. People have less qualms about those unless they're selling freebies. :p
[13:51] You: advertisng within buildings doesnt effect the surrounding area either.
[13:51] Cytherea Eagle: those were beta test models
[13:51] Cytherea Eagle: 2.3 will be no tor
[13:51] Dytska Vieria: Advertising in Search doesn't cause blight either
[13:51] Talarus Luan: Well, those are the only ones I see everywhere
[13:51] Ciaran Laval: Advertising in search doesn't cause much at all unless you pay a shed load of Lindens
[13:52] Austin Hallard: i spend more time along the roadsides than any of you , so i can clearly say i get no lag near cythereas signs
[13:52] Dytska Vieria: says who? I get a lot of hits
[13:52] Ancient Shriner: That's a good way to advertiser and we're releasing that system very soon . . . it's a lot of work in testing
[13:52] Chrischun Fassbinder: Fontte, yes I understand you feel certain residents should be able to decide what their neighbors build and do with their land, I do not. So it goes, freedom of the mainland is nice like that.
[13:52] Ancient Shriner: other people who tied it quit because they couldn't handle the traffic
[13:52] Talarus Luan: I LIVE next to one, Austin, and it lags as much as any of them
[13:52] You: Yea I can agree you often on roadsides cutting land to sell to ad dealers
[13:52] Fontte Newbold: Well, people would have disagreed back three years ago on not blighting search (back when ads started cropping up on the Events Calendar), but in general, yeah. :P
[13:52] Kenny Stringer is Online
[13:52] kimmy5186 Wind is Online
[13:52] Cytherea Eagle: I am a webmaster as well so I advertise RL items so LL search does nothing for my business
[13:52] hippoRENT Rental Box 4.1 Slums of NErdville: Rental Box @ Slums of Nerdville 64, 158, 23 - Oi Meili paid L$550. They now have 9 days, 0 hours, 19 minutes and 39 seconds remaining on their rental.
[13:53] Talarus Luan: It also displays porn ads, and malware sites
[13:53] Qie Niangao: Well, I suppose when the Big Announcement is that Ansche won the contract for managing the Mainland Estate, it will be a different debate. ;)
[13:53] Arawn Spitteler: It would be nice, if the Flooding were removed from Events
[13:53] Talarus Luan: Boy, Qie, that WILL be a mixed bag
[13:53] Austin Hallard: i personally would rather see an ad for playboy than soemthing for diaper bags or visits to hong kong lol
[13:53] Ancient Shriner: Yah, you'll have to learn Chinese to get any customer service
[13:53] Fontte Newbold: Chrischun: Naw. I think residents should be able to do whatever the heck they want with their parcels, conformant only to a few guidelines that prevent that use from encroaching on the use of another paying party.
[13:53] Ciaran Laval: Qie she won't like having to charge VAT so I don't see that happening!
[13:53] Fontte Newbold: The question is separability of those rights, not so much the fact they exist.
[13:54] DjKeveros Radek is Offline
[13:54] Fontte Newbold: Like having plots being able to use all the script time for a sim -- that's unacceptable.
[13:54] Talarus Luan: Well, Austin, just ask your buddy Cytherea to put up 10 of her ad displays next to your home. Then you can have ALL the porn and malaware ads served in your face that you want. :D
[13:54] Timo Daehlie: i would like to see a tier per parcel system
[13:54] You: I have an estate related question. How much longer are grandfathered sims going to keep a 100 dollar lower tier? It makes it harder for newer estate owners to compete when the playing field is so uneven
[13:54] Ancient Shriner: As long as they give script cycles by square meter, that would be fine
[13:55] Fontte Newbold: Agree ^

[13:55] Chrischun Fassbinder: Someday we can only hope that becomes possible.
[13:55] Jack Linden: Sarah: we've no plans to change that. we review it every quarter as part of my usual end of Q land blog post
[13:55] Carricre Wind: the grandfathered sims are also light on resources, one would think that's a factor
[13:55] Qie Niangao: (agree on script cycles. not crazy about the weird "script count" thing that seems to be all over SLDev)
[13:55] Fontte Newbold: renice process * parcel amount of this resident :p
[13:56] Jack Linden: the class 4s that have upgraded have moved to normal monthly fees
[13:56] You: I thought all the class 3's were updated
[13:56] Fontte Newbold: I mean, it's not *that* hard to do.
[13:56] Jack Linden: there are no class 3s any more
[13:56] You: I didnt think so
[13:56] Ancient Shriner: Qie, there are already throttles inplace that allow more or less cycles for scripts . . that's on the Sim side. . . so there is a 'Budget' of cycles that could be split evenly across the 65000 square meters
[13:56] You: I want 200 dollar tier too
[13:57] Dytska Vieria: I would like to see tier increments from 1 sim to 1 sim + 512, + 1024, 2048, etc...
[13:57] Ancient Shriner: I agree with Dytska, from 1 to 1.5 sims seems like a steep jump to me
[13:57] Carricre Wind: shame that we estate managers can't control those throttles though, would be nice to set priorities by script owner, so that say the sim owners scripts don't fail because a visitor was messing about
[13:57] Cytherea Eagle: yawn
[13:57] Qie Niangao: (yes... well, the VM scheduler needs to be overhauled anyway... it's just weird how they're talking about it now: stopping rezzing of scripted objects when quota is reached. sorry, deeply off-topic here.)
[13:58] You: yea that would be nice. I hate getting bumped up half a sim even I go 512 over
[13:58] Austin Hallard: changing the tier in that manner you might destroy the land rental businesses
[13:58] Talarus Luan: Yeah, a large percentage of script lag comes from avatars
[13:58] Fontte Newbold: Sarah: Sounds like it's time to start an alt.
[13:58] Texture Assistant v1.01 PRO: Amberly Whitfield just tried to take textures from me.
[13:58] Fontte Newbold: <_< >_>
[13:58] Texture Assistant v1.01 PRO: Amberly Whitfield just tried to take textures from me.
[13:58] Jack Linden: so guys, we're at the end of my hour. next week i reserve the right to ban anyone discussing ad farming or related topics. :)
[13:58] You: I hate alts, I spend to much time on myself to develop new persobalitys
[13:58] Ancient Shriner: :-)
[13:58] PulseBurst Flow: lol
[13:58] GnuSense Shepherd: lol ok
[13:59] Carricre Wind: heh
[13:59] Rem Nightfire: haha
[13:59] Ciaran Laval: If you did that owning 1 and a half sims would cost more than it does now
[13:59] Texture Assistant v1.01 PRO: Amberly Whitfield just tried to take textures from me.
[13:59] Austin Hallard: Thanks Jack
[13:59] Carricre Wind: crap, and I didn't even get to my question :)
[13:59] Qie Niangao: thanks for hosting, Jack
[13:59] You: Thank You
[13:59] Ciaran Laval: Cheers Jack
[13:59] Carricre Wind: ah well, was fun regardless :)
[13:59] Rem Nightfire: thank you jack
[13:59] Timo Daehlie: thx jack !
[13:59] Fontte Newbold: Jack: Put "Ashes of Ad Farmers" up on your desk.
[13:59] Jack Linden: i'll be honest, i'm not sure you're getting good value out of me by going through this argument each week. there isn't any more that i can say that i haven't already said
[13:59] Ancient Shriner: Thanks again Jack, we need to get you a black and white striped referee shirt
[13:59] Ciaran Laval: Stop having your office hours when the footie is on!
[13:59] Arawn Spitteler: There's an idea, we could have profiles in inventory, to file with different outfits
[13:59] Fontte Newbold: And right next to it: "Ashes of Ad Farm Debaters"
[14:00] Cytherea Eagle: I think that rule applies to all involved
[14:00] Texture Assistant v1.01 PRO: Amberly Whitfield just tried to take textures from me.
[14:00] Squirrel Wood: Have an agenda for this hour ?
[14:00] Texture Assistant v1.01 PRO: Amberly Whitfield just tried to take textures from me.
[14:00] Jack Linden: perhaps you need a weekly venue of your own to debate this. i'd be happy to come visit it.
[14:00] You: Sorry for being a pain Jack, its just a subject we feel really strongly about
[14:00] You: Next week we will behave
[14:00] ROBO Marx: sounds good jack
[14:00] PulseBurst Flow: Jack..or maybe seperate meetings
[14:00] Austin Hallard: I agree with Jack, and it was in my statement. Seems unfair these protesters do this crap each week.
[14:00] Carricre Wind: I'd let y'all have a place to debate on my sim, but, perhaps that's inviting disaster :)
[14:00] PulseBurst Flow: so it's less contentious
[14:00] Rem Nightfire: yawn
[14:00] Qie Niangao: i have a nice parcel surrounded by adfarms if we need a venue ;)
[14:00] Talarus Luan: That's what protesters do.. protest.
[14:01] Jack Linden: seriously. there are both sides represented here. self organise yourselves to debate this properly, and i will try to attend
[14:01] Fontte Newbold: I'd love at least one town hall on the issue looping in Robin, but that's just me.
[14:01] You: You brought it up Austin but alright
[14:01] GnuSense Shepherd: Thanks again Jack
[14:01] Ciaran Laval: Well if the 16m parcel extortionists would behave themselves there would be no need for a debate
[14:01] PulseBurst Flow: Jack..
[14:01] Ancient Shriner: We already have Advertiser Guild meetings
[14:01] PulseBurst Flow: we don't need to debate
[14:01] PulseBurst Flow: people are here to contact LIndens..you
[14:01] Ancient Shriner: we could expand that to include time for free-for-all public debate
[14:01] Arawn Spitteler: Let's sponsor a debate, on the subject, and have it attended by Alexandria and Workingonit Linden
[14:01] You: Any issues people have there heart in will get rough
[14:01] Talarus Luan: I think he meant a debate outside of your own circle of "friends".
[14:01] Fontte Newbold: I think you're going to want a neutral location."
[14:02] Fontte Newbold: Say, Stage 4?
[14:02] Chrischun Fassbinder: Cordova Sandbox, High Noon. :)
[14:02] Ancient Shriner: Lol
[14:02] Fontte Newbold: No one's really using it any more :p
[14:02] Ancient Shriner: Pistols or Swords?
[14:02] Rem Nightfire: haha
[14:02] Carricre Wind: battleships
[14:02] Ancient Shriner: hahahahaa
[14:02] Arawn Spitteler: We could set something up in Spirit City, maybe on our new famous bridge
[14:02] You: You sank my battleship!
[14:02] kimmy5186 Wind is Online
[14:02] Squirrel Wood: sandbox? May as well go and invite them griefers too :p
[14:02] Carricre Wind: arrrr!
[14:02] Chrischun Fassbinder: Does make me wish SL Boxing was still big, be some great matches for a themed night.
[14:02] Squirrel Wood: so they can lolcube you to death
[14:03] Jack Linden: if you guys ever did agree on a stgep forward for all sides, that would be something I would really want to take notice of. :)
[14:03] Fontte Newbold: But Squirrel, the griefers are already invited by definition.
[14:03] Jack Linden: *step
[14:03] You: I have a mud fight set we could use
[14:03] Dytska Vieria stands next to the dragon for safety
[14:03] PinkFluffy Bailey is Online
[14:03] Carricre Wind: death matches to determine who's right, best scripter wins?
[14:03] Talarus Luan: Would be a hard thing, Jack. There are many contested issues that no side will ever come off of.
[14:03] Ancient Shriner: We put that one forward last meeting Carricre
[14:03] Carricre Wind: did I win?
[14:04] Fontte Newbold: I think it's hard to disagree on the removal of 16m banlines and enhanced controls for the client.
[14:04] Kenny Stringer is Offline
[14:04] Talarus Luan: It is why we are here, because we have already tried mediation amongst ourselves
[14:04] Ancient Shriner: Battlebots in an Arena Deathmatch
[14:04] Jack Linden: okays goodbye all. have a great week. i shall be here next week.
[14:04] Rem Nightfire: bye jack
[14:04] Austin Hallard: bye jack
[14:04] Ancient Shriner: Cya Jack, have a good week too
[14:04] Fontte Newbold: o/
[14:04] Sarah Nerd waves
[14:04] Carricre Wind: the only winning move, you know, is not to play ;)
[14:04] Talarus Luan: Exactly.
[14:04] Fontte Newbold: Now maybe I can go un-Ruth my viewer.
[14:04] Talarus Luan: ..and even that isn't an option
[14:04] Qie Niangao: hmmm... that's not what my state lottery says. ;)
[14:04] Carricre Wind: LIES!
[14:04] Qie Niangao: :p
[14:05] kimmy5186 Wind is Offline
[14:05] PinkFluffy Bailey is Offline
[14:05] Arawn Spitteler: To win any game, sell tickets. Even Drama goes to dust, when Ticket Sales drop
[14:05] Fontte Newbold: Nope. That's one bad Ruth job. Right back :|
[14:06] Carricre Wind: anyone using the RC?
[14:06] Qie Niangao: I am, Carricre...
[14:06] Qie Niangao: on Linux
[14:06] Arawn Spitteler: RC-10?
[14:06] Talarus Luan: Only as a last resort. :P
[14:06] Drongle McMahon: me
[14:06] Qie Niangao: when it's not freezing.
[14:06] Dytska Vieria: Nicholaz
[14:06] Carricre Wind: noticed how the Ruths have become a little glowy orb?
[14:06] Qie Niangao: yep
[14:06] Carricre Wind: that is totally awesome
[14:06] PulseBurst Flow: yes, that is new Ruth
[14:06] Qie Niangao: I keep meaning to make a little glowy orb avatar
[14:06] Sarah Nerd waves
[14:06] You: later guys
[14:06] Talarus Luan: I have one. :D
[14:06] Qie Niangao: bye, Sarah
[14:06] Talarus Luan: Take care, Sarah :)
[14:06] PulseBurst Flow: bye Sara
[14:06] Timo Daehlie: ciao sarah ;)
[14:07] Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/160/116/38

[[Category:Jack Linden Office Hours]]

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-04-16

2009-04-23T20:29:24Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: New page: <div id='box'> == List of Attendees == <div style='padding: 0.5em'> *TumbleWeed Loopen *Talarus Luan *[[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]...

<div id='box'>
== List of Attendees ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]
*[[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]
*[[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]
*[[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]
*[[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]
*[[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]
*[[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]
*[[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]
*[[User:Melodie Darwin|Melodie Darwin]]
*[[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]
*[[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]
*[[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]
*[[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]
*[[User:
|
]]
*[[User:A) It's been said the reason that LL wont help physically move items because of the no guarentees on land shape and size, *if*a case is judged that it IS possible, is there the manpower to do it? And if not, It shouldnt be taken casually that WE have the time and labor
|A) It's been said the reason that LL wont help physically move items because of the no guarentees on land shape and size, *if*a case is judged that it IS possible, is there the manpower to do it? And if not, It shouldnt be taken casually that WE have the time and labor
]]
*[[User:B) In light of the fact that LL has so far said they aren't likely to help physically move things will there be 30 days allowed to move? And if so, what compensation is being considered for that time frame for loss of wages, labor, etc? ((Linden Labs has said everyone will be judged case by case to what they WILL offer help-wise))
|B) In light of the fact that LL has so far said they aren't likely to help physically move things will there be 30 days allowed to move? And if so, what compensation is being considered for that time frame for loss of wages, labor, etc? ((Linden Labs has said everyone will be judged case by case to what they WILL offer help-wise))
]]
*[[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]
*[[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]
*[[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]
*[[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]
*[[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]
*[[User:2. of, pertaining to, or befitting adults.
|2. of, pertaining to, or befitting adults.
]]
*[[User:3. intended for adults; not suitable for children: adult entertainment.
|3. intended for adults; not suitable for children: adult entertainment.
]]
*[[User:–noun
|–noun
]]
*[[User:6. a person who has attained the age of maturity as specified by law.
|6. a person who has attained the age of maturity as specified by law.
]]
*[[User:ma·ture
|ma·ture
]]
*[[User:–adjective
|–adjective
]]
*[[User:3. fully developed in body or mind, as a person: a mature woman.
|3. fully developed in body or mind, as a person: a mature woman.
]]
*[[User:7. intended for or restricted to adults, esp. by reason of explicit sexual content or the inclusion of violence or obscene language: mature movies.
|7. intended for or restricted to adults, esp. by reason of explicit sexual content or the inclusion of violence or obscene language: mature movies.
]]
*[[User:8. composed of adults, considered as being less susceptible than minors to explicit sexual content, violence, or obscene language, as of a film or stage performance: for mature audiences only.
|8. composed of adults, considered as being less susceptible than minors to explicit sexual content, violence, or obscene language, as of a film or stage performance: for mature audiences only.
]]
*[[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]
*[[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]
*[[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]
*[[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]
*[[User:Willow Halfpint|Willow Halfpint]]
*[[User:Inara Marquette|Inara Marquette]]
</div></div>

<div id='box'>
== Transcript ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Dragons, guard the entrance!
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Drawn and quartered.. by Dragons.
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: We still need to get you an urn of extortionist ashes.
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I'll take a drumstick
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: I have my Cattle Prod
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: hello ,,,
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: so i'll give an update on the micro-parcels / cutting stuff first of all
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Wow never heard the music stream here before...and now I see why ;)
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: after the aggravated assault I suffered at the last meeting, i can report some serious progress this week..
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: pffft
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Ooo.. you mean we had an effect? :D
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Shocking, I know.
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Yeah some git set a parcel for sale for me for L$9900
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: I would simply call it a little persuasion...
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yeah.. Luke Termagant is still knocking up holes for L$9900.. he's not going out anytime soon.
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: over the last couple of weeks the number of 16m parcels for sale has dropped by another 2k, to 14k.., and several of the big micro-barons have now agreed to exchange out their 16m plots for large plots.. and obviously to not go back into that business
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: aka "GOLD COINS" and "PRIM PLUS"
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Hmm sounds interesting
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Gold Coins is the one, it wasn't even set for sale before, now L$9900
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: we estimate a further 5500 16m parcels at least should be getting abandoned or given back to us in the next week or two
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: but yes, some serious progress
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]] prays they're from his "favorite" extortion rings.
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: is that inclusive the arbor projects microplots Jack ?
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: exclusive Timo
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: ah
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: yeah.. I suppose we will know soon who those folks are
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: (What's this meetings agenda?)
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: What about the rest of the intransigents?
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: we did around 1500-2000 past month
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Land issues, Tumble
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Open/Free-format
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Melodie Darwin|Melodie Darwin]]: are you counting sizes like 32 or 64 at all? There is still alot being done to harass others and uglify the mainland at those sizes... seperated but joined etc
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]] nods
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: we're in conversation with all of the large micro parcel dealers, some are obviously more open to negotiation than others, but we'll get there
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Melodie, we are.. and yes, those have dropped too - but the large majority are 16m
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Melodie Darwin|Melodie Darwin]]: ty
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: Yes. I sawa new cut into plots about 96-228 ... do they count in the policy?
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: it depends on the nature of the cutting Drongle, but if it's a case of slicing up parcel into many smaller plots to sell.. that would clearly be an issue
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: So...AR and see what happens?
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: people just managing their land in normal ways isn't a problem
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: sure
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: is there a written policy about it?
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: there is the original blog post, and the kb article i believe
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: so who has something else they would like to talk about?
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: ok..will check the kb thanks
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: i saw that you are already rolling out the code for the adult changes in server version 1.26, how can that be while we are still discussing what it exactly should be? Also the fact that you already could include it now, means that you are working on it for a very long time by now.
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: They have been.. over a year, in fact.
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: jack, yes, how is that possible a whole part of an old build sudently desapeared ?
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: whot?
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: 2007 was the first broadly offensive blog I read
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dennis, the server side doesn't include the definitions or hard policies.. it just gives us the tools to be able to enact something once it has been decided
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: I have a question or two, when appropriate
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Still has lots of issues, though.
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: i experimented that (ok in the mainland, at Calleta, next to the hobo infor hub) a big part of my train station desapeared
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Asterion.. did you at any point run out of prims?
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: that part of the building was one of the oldest one
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Older prims can get returned when a parcel is full
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: no prims issues, as far i know
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hard for me to answer without going off to look, but if you have filed a support ticket then someone should be in touch soon
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: i let a limit of about 800 prims left for the renters
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: it does rarely happen.. i know we had a section of Linden roadway vanish recently for no clear reason
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: when will that be fixed so you dont get stuff returned anymore when the parcel is full
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: but it's very rare
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Not as rare as you would think. ;)
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: the land owner has been warned, i just hope he will fill the ticket in emergency ;)
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: im just the builder there
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: ah :) i'm sure it'll be answered soon.. our queue answer rate is pretty good these days
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: most concierge tickets are responded to well before the 24 hours
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: talarus, i hope to dont see that issue on some of my other buildings :) most of them r giants, and i dont have any save
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: if something weird could happen, it would happen in Calleta.
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: What's the story on camping bots / traffic?
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: also, will you provide better support for people to validate themselves? i first tried it via the website... didn't work, then had to fill a manual support ticket, they said it was done, but i was still bumping in to "age verification lines", then i reopened the support ticket, they once again said it should be ok, still running into age verification lines... i didn't try athird time yet, i just gave up, and many other would do that as well, but not only giving up entering age verification areas, but SL as a whole
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal.. just waiting for a slot to post that. we try to keep the big items from landing at the same time
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: OK. Just queueing the question
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: What other big item is landing?
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Some poor soul wanted me to code a camping chair with a captcha system yesterday. This amused me greatly.
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: M's post for example, which went out recently
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I also have a question for a problem we are having with the Isle / Fantasy continent
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dennis, not sure on that one but i'll ask someone to look into it
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: ok, thanx.
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: We have someone who was able to sneak into a reserved spot near use with his region. We have tickets in to move some regions around to fill in some spaces, but this guy is holding us up, and he shouldn't even be there.
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: *us
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: how is it reserved Tal?
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: He initially was amiable to the move, as you all said it would be free because of the mistake.
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Via the land store
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: The buffer around our continent
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: ah interesting. is it being dealt with then?
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Not yet
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: We've got tickets in, but no resolution, and he's now going "what's in it for me?" as if he is going to try and extort us for money to move.
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: A Sim extortionist
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: okays, i'll be sure to mention it to the team
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yeah. :-/
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Firstly, an invitation to come see for yourself specific issues, but....
*
*A) It's been said the reason that LL wont help physically move items because of the no guarentees on land shape and size, *if*a case is judged that it IS possible, is there the manpower to do it? And if not, It shouldnt be taken casually that WE have the time and labor
*
*B) In light of the fact that LL has so far said they aren't likely to help physically move things will there be 30 days allowed to move? And if so, what compensation is being considered for that time frame for loss of wages, labor, etc? ((Linden Labs has said everyone will be judged case by case to what they WILL offer help-wise))
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Please do
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: but if there is a ticket then they will already be on it
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: We're all ready to get Eragon moved, but he's the fly in the ointment
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hey Tumbleweed.. in terms of terrrain height alone it's extremely unlikely that the two parcels will match, but as a general rule we will not be able to move content for you - we just have no good way to do that
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: General rule, of course
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: as for B) if you have a significant content issue that means you need to have a bot more time, just let us know
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: *lot
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: heeh
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: lol
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: lol @ bot more time
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: you a a bot on your mind today. :P
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: I do, then when will there be an open house to look at what we are getting?
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: (i think i may have typed 'bot' too many times lol)
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: hehe
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: (are you into bot stuffs?)
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: once this discussion round is ended, and we get closer to June, we will open up the land for everyone to take a look
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: as for compensation?
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Loss of earnings, etc?
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: we do not have any plans to provide compensation i'm afraid
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Thats very bad, very very bad, so it WILL cost us
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: how about people that bought at a private estate that will be adult area in future and don't want to validate themselves... will you compensate or help them somehow?
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: The silence on estate aid is deafening
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: Jack, how is the land type tradeoff being handled - I mean there is a big difference between moving someone on a piece of patchworked rockland, and someone who is currently on a nice protected waterfront plot?
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: They will have to flag their region, adult or not
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: (i think u can move a sim to another location) :)
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: (They wont, its a tech nightmare, matching land edges, etc)
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dennis, that area of the AO project really isn't something that sits with me, i'm mainly concerned with the migration part and providing all the land.. but i think that how estates flag their land will be somewhat down to them.
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: There will be people who don't want to flag a whole sim adult, it's a terrible secnario people are being put in
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I'd suggest you pose that in the ao forums and someone can answer there hopefully
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: ok
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: tumble not that nightmare than seing a sexshop just next to the door :)
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: So it will cost us, pure and simple, headaches, time...loss of earnings.......
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: True
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: but what if a resident has now a 16000sm parcel on a private estate which will stay mature....where will he move and will he loose the money he paid for the parcels
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Chaos, we're not going to worry too much about the 'worth' of the land, as people will be able to choose where they end up.. and the area is big enough that there should be plenty of choice
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: Are all mainland Mature sims turning PG?
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Jack, for one, I feel for ya; this decision is going to severely impact you and your group, and I don't think Blondin/Jeska/M have really thought it through very well.
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: I never though that Avatar Overides would be a big subject.
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Nobody on the adult continent team, and they should lose the AO acronym as that's already taken, are addressing the estate land economics
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: They also are not addressing many of the issues that are brought up
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]] woots, "A.C!"
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: OOps, no tthat one either
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Equinox, that would have to start with a conversation with the estate owner, but i'm not aware of any plans for compensation - I don't really see how we'd even be able to judge that anyway
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: It makes sense as a move to bring the kids onto the mainland, but as far as I can tell, no company or movement in history has been able to handle such a move.
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Right, our point exactally, so say this Jack, "It's going to COST you"
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: We had a sizeable chunk of land abandoned with a "adult" site on it. the problem is her land descriptions were the issue, ultimately there was no sexual acts on parcel however she pulled out lost her parcel price etc...
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: That includes attempts to migrate all adult websites to .xxx, and attempts by other companies to marginalize "adult" content.
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Fontte, we've no plans to move the kidgrid into the main grid - that really hasn't been a part of the decisionmaking around this adult continent
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: ok..and how will you handle the traffic issue as mainland sims only allow 40 avis....all these businesses which will move are high traffic...will part of the sims stay empty
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Yep, one of my places will fill up the sim
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: not to mention the script times....
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Every day
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: that also
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Perhaps I'm out of the loop, but what /was/ the rationale to move all adult content to its own continent?
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: You should leave estate land alone Jack and give us the tools to flag parcels, mainland is your estate so you can manage that how you see fit but estate land is getting a raw deal here with no offers of help from LL
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: image time.... etc etc
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: What I've read has been very roundabout and diversionary.
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Equinox, i think in the city regions on the adult continent, there is far more Linden land than on the average Mainland region, so there should be fewer owners per region anyways
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: And frankly, more conducive to client filtering controls than anything else.
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ciaran, that is what is happening.. it'll be up to the estates to flag their land correctly.
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: No Jack it's a region level flag, all or nothing
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: The current "Linden Answer" aka "spin", is that is being done to "give residents a more predictable SL experience"; "to give them more control over their experience".
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Melodie Darwin|Melodie Darwin]]: what happens to the parcels left behind on existing mainland once the adult content is moved?
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]] muses "Wonder how long the AO server rack will last at full capacity...
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Yeah, that's fairly hollow in a business-speak way.
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]] touches her nose
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: it will be fine, u invite into govs guys to promote educational contents, and due to some error TP, or sim shutting down) u r moved into some adult content sim owned my rocco :)
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: region level yes.. ah you mean the granularity.. yeah, i thin kfor technical reasons access needed to be region level
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: Jack..will Mainland 'Mature' regions be converted to 'PG'?
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: one of the tricky things is that if it were parcel level, with the way the camera works, it wouldn't really achieve much
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Pretty much that is what "Mature" is becoming
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: PulseBurst.. no
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: m"ature is not adult"
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: but that's the problem Jack, some regions have adult parcels, either the whole region goes adult, which reduces visibility, or the adult business gets booted out, meaning a parcel left unrented and a business left out of pocket
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: it's confusing..and I read the blogs.
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: Someone pointed this out to me. One of the methoids to get adult verfied it to use paypal verfied account, that cost a buck something to get a premiun account via paypal in paypal fees. So it will cost money to get verfied, said money is taken by paypal, own by ebay, own by goggle...
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ciaran.. yeah, that is one of the challenges I agree. the whole region gets flagged
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: For mixed use regions that's going to need some hard decisions
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Hehe. "challenges" good spin codeword for "unresolved problems with the idea". :P
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: perhaps some extra Estate sims for transition... something LL could help with
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Honestly, the whole issue is in need of some clarity from the top.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: lol.. did i drop into managerspeak Tal? bad bad me
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yus.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: and will you offer the peole who have to move out of a mature private region land on the mainland for free?
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: It'd be nice if the original policymakers would just tell us what they want the grid to be.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Only a couple more and I will have Bingo
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: agreed
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Also is it true that if an estate has 2 neighbouring regions in a contiguous land mass both will have to flag as adult?
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hehe
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Yes I loved the way you just said 'hard decisions' witout point out WHO was going to be makin them Jack - excellent Manager-speak - we'll have you in a tie yet
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ciaran, i hadn't heard of that being a decision
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: All this "mature is not adult" and "what defines porn" stuff is really just a tangent to the main issue: what do you call a "consistent experience?"
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, the way the camera works......
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Moon.. agreed, so to be clear, the estate owners will have to decide those things, and agreed, not ideal
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Ok Jack, someone mentioned it on the forum due to people being able to cam across, we'll see what happens because that would be another fine mess
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: As in, should the mainland be a suburban sprawl from end to end?
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: That sounds rather... boring. Mainstream, but boring.
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: lindenlab is driving itself a step closer to the end of SL with this the way its done again. the concurrent users are hardly growing anymore, this will start to drive the numbers absolutely negative. I'ts not affecting me directly, i'm just seeing SL going down. Jack, how many people do you expect to "loose" their business because they will not verify?
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I wouldn't want to see that Fontte, the Mainland has always been so diverse.. I think it'll remain that way but.. we do want to give those that want it, more structure and choice
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: They already have it.
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: yes, "mature is not adult" really too vague..and leaves people unsure of their status and plans.
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Wouldn't it be smarter to reach out to communities on the grid and ask how they've done it, instead of impose from the top?
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Structure and choice are all well and good but why does it have to be on mainland?
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dennis.. concurrency is rising all the time! in fact the last 3 months we've broken the concurrency record many times
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: I mean, if you want structure and choice, you should solicit the people that have built both since the beginnings of Second Life.
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: more bots....
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: aye but sorry to be synical how much of it is bots
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: snap...
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Fontte, i don't know all the details, but that team has spoken to lots of people now
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Ooo.. a marketing hat! That's a new one, Jack! :P
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Well, I'm not questioning the quantity. I'm questioning the quality, and the process.
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Well if you allowed mainland sim owners to apply for covenants you can get structure via community agreement
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: i just remember the "gambeling ban", and the drop in th economy statistics... this drop will be bigger.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: As far as I can tell, this has all been very scattershot, on account of LL keeping itself segregated from the interests of the residents (ie, us)
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: it was not a drop in the econoly, it was a abyss
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: but..gambling is not gone..there's zyngo, isn't there?
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: You know, i don't think that there are as many bots as people think. we'll see of course, once we start looking at the traffic bot situation after the blog post goes out.. and sure it may impact concurrency a little but i doubt it will be a big dent
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yeah, was gonna say.. since when is gambling gone?
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: "Linden-approved skill-based games," Tal. *nodnod
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: a·dult
*2. of, pertaining to, or befitting adults.
*3. intended for adults; not suitable for children: adult entertainment.
*–noun
*6. a person who has attained the age of maturity as specified by law.
*
*ma·ture
*–adjective
*3. fully developed in body or mind, as a person: a mature woman.
*7. intended for or restricted to adults, esp. by reason of explicit sexual content or the inclusion of violence or obscene language: mature movies.
*8. composed of adults, considered as being less susceptible than minors to explicit sexual content, violence, or obscene language, as of a film or stage performance: for mature audiences only.
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Keep up with the terms. :P
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: clicking is a skill?
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: Not that many bots??? select the map - go to crowded regions ... you will find tons of bots up in the sky
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Dennis Lagan|Dennis Lagan]]: there was a clear drop in the statistics, and it has taken long to fix it. this will be not different
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I think there are more bots than you realize, Jack.
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: yes, i agree, a lot lot more bots :
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: i think that too jack
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: Sorry, had to do that
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: a LOT more
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: If you want to see bots, just drop in on an InfoHub... speaking of which, the sudden abundance of InfoHubs: Might any old, problematic ones be retired? And, just curious how (and why) something like this was kept so quiet (NCI didn't know, for example).
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Sunday is my worst trading day of the week, yet it's the busiest day concurrency wise, not sure what everyone is doing!
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: bots own us
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: and almost every resident has at least one alt account
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: 20% of concurrency? more?
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: I can provide you long lists with bots provided by my customers used for cheating on contest, etc
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: 20% is probably a reasonable number.
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Is OK, Tumble, I tried the definition route in the forums, too. Blondin ignored it
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: If someone erects advertising at an Infohub, or public land, they can be ARed for several things perhaps..Unfair use of region resources, Object Littering, Avert Farm/Visual Spam, Land Encroachment. But it they simply create an account, and have the avatar sit there "as a advertisement"...they can get away with it..spamming, using resources, creating visual blight. This happens regularly, and new infohubs are full of these avatars. Why can't it be ARed..with consequences on the business owners that use them..not just the throw-away alts....warning, suspension, termination. It is the Linden's land.they should tend to it, without a long-drawn out monthly blog announce, endless commentary, and indecision. Just the will to do the right thing..and govern it.
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: BlckCobra, we've been doing exactly that - amd yes they are an issue, but not a huge one as far as we can see.. but i guess we'll find out!
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: That's consistent with figures Symantec released about email spam earlier this week.
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Where something like 1/5 of all email is spam.
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: whoosh that was big.. let me read all that..
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: In terms of resource load, not messages.
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: what is not huge for you...10%...20%..30%..40%?
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: some month ago, i used to say "hi!" when i met folks, no i use to ask "are you a bot?" then say 'hi!'
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: Just make traffic stats private information for parcel owners and avoid all the unnecessary leaping about with tests that take months to perform and result in no action.
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: why would someone load up on bots on a sunday?
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: lol
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: I'me a alt here due to another Linden office hours i'm at the same time with my main account.
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Ballpark, that'd put the number of bots at.... 50,000? 200,000?
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I think that was inverted, Fontte.. 1/5th of all email is NOT spam. :P
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: That's the per message tally, Tal. :P
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: And yeah.
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: PulseBurst.. i think we will deal with those kinds of nuisance uses of Bots. but lets wait until the blog post is out and we can discuss it more here
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: I was on a sim this morning, someone dropped some land for sale below market, the landbots couldn't get into the sim because the traffic bots had filled the sim - LOL
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: ..if my inbox is any measure. :-/
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: Jack, check "Mikey's Agency" for example: hundrets of bots and alts used to cheating. Abuse reports were filed , some bots were apparently removed but they create new ones faster than you can say "bye"
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: OK, when's the "blog post"?
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Sorry, whens the blog post out?
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: ack
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: ok..but Torley is posting exciting pictures of new "resis" at the new infohubs..but it's mostly bots. ;)
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: when will we see that post
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Bots have their place, an infohub isn't that place
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: agreed Claran
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: just waiting for the okay before posting it. shouldn't be long. 'd say 'tomorrow' but i can't guarantee it. :)
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: i agree bots can be usefull, when they know do do something else that just camp for traffic stats :)
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Reminds me of that guy in Edinburgh holding a big sign says "GOLF SALE <---"
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: My qeustion: if we submit list of caught bots used for cheating to abuse department will LL do something or is it wasted time?
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: wait until after the post goes out BlckCobra
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Frankly, the useful bots are in far fewer number than the ones generated by hacks looking for a quick profit. :p
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: Just take away the traffic advantages and bots will diminish. Bottom line.
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: I agree Fontte
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: OK, so, before next week?
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: in looking around i found some great bots, but most are just for traffic
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: That has already happened...no?
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Diminish for traffic, anyway.
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Jack time isn't always that accurate Tal ;)
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: no Dirk..at infohubs..they are not seeking to improve Traffic on their own land
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Bots still have viability in terms of gaming markets.
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: that won't solve it
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hehe Ciaran
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]] prays traffic is going to be decoupled from search.
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: fontte of course, if it was easy to script a smart bot, they would be everywhere (including in my kitchen)
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: Search HAS changed
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Snatching L$1 parcels, picking out the rare arbitrage opportunities on the Lindex, etc, etc.
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:TumbleWeed Loopen|TumbleWeed Loopen]]: any comment on the fact that adult and mature are the same thing?
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: I was told traffic has been taken OUT
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Also.. an example of bots causing issues getting other people in trouble.
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: I will wait jack, but my customers and I start loosing patience because this has become a really annyoing issue - and we are not talking about a few but meanwhile lists of 1000nds confirmed cheater bots
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: I wouldn't put it past people to arbitrage between the Lindex and XStreetSL because they can. ;)
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: I don't mind traffic, but I use it for trying to find foot traffic rather than seeing it as a sign of good content
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: My neighbor has a games place in another region that has like 10 lucky chairs.
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: She recently got warned for "overusing region resources"
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: talarus, u r right, u cant imagine how frustrated im when i discover im having a discution woth a bot!
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: She has tried everything she can up to just removing the lucky chairs to stop the bots.
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: However, the problem is not her fault, directly.
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Asterion: Depends on your definition of smart bots. Have you used Outlook's filters lately? :)
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: LOL
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: It's not so much complexity as utility.
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: What is she giving away in the Lucky Chairs?
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: the sad thing is that when i stand at the welcome areas, i'm often asked if i am real.
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: fontte well i wasnt talking about einstein bots :) but IBM and some other r using bots to help some handicaped ppl to undersant and use SL
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I don't know for sure; I think it is either prizes or money.
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Driftwood Miles|Driftwood Miles]]: the jury is still out on that Jack :P
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: Try wearing a red scarf, Jack :P
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Willow Halfpint|Willow Halfpint]]: hey jack :-)
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Inara Marquette|Inara Marquette]] hands Jack a tissue.
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: She just told me today
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: haha
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: some r used as statistic, and to inform visitors, or r actors in some theaters :)
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: Then she needs to give away no transfer items only and no L$ and bots won't bother with it
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: Another question: I have been approached by a few lately asking for SL6B ... any info on that?
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I told her I would bring it up and see what people suggest.
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: SL6B will be an event as usual, I think Dusty Linden is looking after the details
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I'm hoping the bot policy will address it to some extent
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Honestly, the easiest way to deal with bots is to handle the market issues that created them in the first place.
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]] tries again. "So, about these new InfoHubs. How did they spring up so suddenly without anybody (notably, NCI) knowing they were coming in such numbers? And is there any plan to retire some of the old, problematic InfoHubs?
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: yup
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: yep, but no beep from Dusty yet and no one seems to knwo anything as of yet. SL5B group is still alive an people are asking - even the former event managers
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Tal.. there are some lucky chairs i've seen that ask questions from time to time to prove the sitter isn't a bot
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: jack....i was told that SEARCH criteria has changed....and that TRAFFIC is no longer a vital component in SEARCH....is that correct?
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: has she tried those?
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: When is land going to have a value again?
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Alexxa traffic hasn't been a vital component in all search for quite some time
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Heh.. when SLHell freezes up
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: The amusing thing is captchas in those cases don't work. :p
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: That's not what i was told 2 days ago by Concierge
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: She is using those, Jack.
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: bots are used for making L$, driving traffic, cheating on contests etc .. you can't take all that away ... partially maybe but not in total
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Alexxa, search will always be changed/tweaked/refined.. as we work to make it better, but traffic is stil a part of it
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: hence the "trying everything" part.
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Someone could easily set it up to offload the captcha onto Amazon's mechanical turk for like, $0.01, and take the profit.
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Which is what some people do.
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: She has them setup to ban the bots, too, but more just come to replace them
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:ATechwolf Foxclaw|ATechwolf Foxclaw]]: Search is somewhat broken now. http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4123
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: somewhat? LOL
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Worse, she keeps trying to explain this to support/G-team in tickets/reponses, but it seems to be falling on deaf ears.
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Hence, why I am bringing it up here.
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: jack what about a traffic doing per activities (like incomes) instead of just the number of folks ?
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: A bot will only use a Lucky Chair if the prizes received have some value in L$ or are L$. There is no need to bog down a chair with scripts when you can simply pass no transfer items and be rid of the bot problem in your chairs.
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: ok, dont tell my names to coders :)
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Asterion.. we could go that way, and have more varied types of land metrics.
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I think in general we totally want to add more data
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Right back to the market forces issue.
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We've plans to do that
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: there is a lot of method to do metrics about a sim (and not only avatars number)
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: And this is why we can't have nice things. :p
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Jack hiding some of those metrics might be helpful
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: you mean limiting to just the landowner Ciaran?
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Well not even that Jack, if you decideed to count money spent as a ranking factor you can do that as a top secret ranking method and then nobody is going to go around getting bots to spend money to influence ranking
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: oh definitely.. agreed
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: the measures used for search, shouldn't always be easily tested against
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, hiding will only work for so long. Someone will find a way to game it
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: They will make a dummy store, and test different things at different times to see the effect on their rankings
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: talarus simple
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: To a degree Tal but they should change the weighting factors on a regular basis.
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Hence why Google throws people at the problem. :P
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: yup
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: owners will themself give money to the shops of some friends, and vice versa :)
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Yeah, look at the google model. No-one after years of trying understand their calculations
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Because it constantly evolves and shifts
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: Totally diff subject, but Jack, any idea when we can expect to see our 'My Land' updated to get rid of all the remnants from sim conversions etc? It has been months now and all these estates and plots are still showing in the My Land dialog
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: It's a hard call. Frankly, I'd just outsource it to Google, in terms of some sort of revenue-sharing contract.
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: (also a bot can spend money)
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: That's why we have asked if LL is REALLY committed to a REAL search ranking system like Google's, because it will take REAL people a lot of time to constantly tweak and vary it
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Chaos.. that's a very good point. We had to keep the regions around in case people changed their minds but soon they will get expunged
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: If you all are just going to make one complex formula and call it golden, then never touch it again unril the next iteration a few years down the line, it won't last a month
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Any news on these full region equivalents Jack?
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Which is why Yahoo and MSN Search are constantly playing catchup.
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Talarus, I would say we are. WE have a team now dedicated to it, some super bright minds so it will get the attention it needs
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]] somehow suspects third time won't be a charm, but: "Jack, to whom should questions about the new InfoHubs be directed?"
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Good. :)
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ciaran.. what do you mean?
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: Again: Bots are usually hosted on only a few computers controlled by the owner ... so they originate from the same IP / MAC address ... easy to determine ... so my question is: since masses of avatars by the same person are against the TOs, why is it so complicated to a) filter them (and take the off traffic numbers) and b) locate them and remove them?
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: The new land product you have in the pipeline
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Dirk Talamasca|Dirk Talamasca]]: Search is screwed again for sure.. Once again it is returning keywords that are nestled within larger words.. Table pulls up results for tintable, poratble etc... Semen pulls up results for Amusement, Basement etc... It has been fixed before, Jeska has a huge blog post about it and it is an important factor in making Search viable so why does it continue to fail?
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: or does LL need them for driving up the user stats? ;-)
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Simple answer, BlckCobra? NAT
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Search is a really difficult thing, in terms of relevancy. Ultimately, you have to think like a user.
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: Qie, I think Jack has you muted. ;)
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: too simple Talarus
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Qie.. talk to Blondin. He is looking after Hubs
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: The "nested terms" and "keywords" issues are basically results of thinking like a coder, with a few regular expressions.
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Qie drop Blondin a note, he does something with infohubs
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Thanks, Jack.
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: It's like the 90s all over again. :D
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Sorry, so much text, and IMs, and notecards and and
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, a lot of folks are behind NATs, so it is really hard to sort out the bots from the real people who just happen to be congregating behind a router firewall
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: Blondin only deals were certain aspects of the infohubs..
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: jack hire some bots :)
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]] tosses a virtual match at the pile that is covering Jack :P
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: But Tal, surely IPv6 will solve all our problems with NAT... *nodnod*
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Yes, I'm giggling about that too. :p
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Hubs come under Land, which is my area, and Blondin is handling the immediate improvements we want to make there
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Okay so folks, I have to dash to my next meeting.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Cheers Jack
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Many thanks as always!
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: thanks Jack
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: OK. Progress or death!
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: yes, but not things like content..the build..missing pieces of the hub..etc
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Have fun storming the castle!
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: Just remember in terms of Bots Jack: Linden Lab is not obligated to allow access to the Servers by any software that is not provided by Linden Lab, and you agree to cease using, creating, distributing or providing any such software at the request of Linden Lab.
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Asterion Coen|Asterion Coen]]: have fun jack :)
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:BlckCobra Shikami|BlckCobra Shikami]]: unless companies, most peopel are not behind NATs and surely not a problem if 1,2 or even 3 AVs come from the same router/IP ... but 100? or even more?
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: Take care Jack
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: and governance...blondin doesn't handle at the hubs
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Inara Marquette|Inara Marquette]]: I thought it was Cake of Death? :)
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Inara Marquette|Inara Marquette]]: or*
*[12:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: :) farewell!
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: bye jack...thanks..
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: be happy about that pulse :)
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Chaos: When you find a sufficient Turing test for bots, let us know. I've been in their position. It's /hard/.
*[12:03 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: bye Jack
</div></div>

<div id='box' style='text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em;'>
Generated by [http://kuraiko.zeitenwerk.de/wikify.php SL Chatlog Wikify]
</div>

[[Category:Jack Linden Office Hours]]

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-04-09

2009-04-23T20:27:32Z

Elanthius Flagstaff:

<div id='box'>
== List of Attendees ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]
*[[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]
*[[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]
*[[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]
*[[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]
*[[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]
*[[User:Melodie Darwin|Melodie Darwin]]
*[[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]
*[[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]
*[[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]
*[[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]
*[[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]
*[[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]
*[[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]
*[[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]
*[[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]
*[[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]
*[[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]
*[[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]
*[[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]
*[[User:Kyrion Yalin|Kyrion Yalin]]
*[[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]
*[[User:Susie Chaffe|Susie Chaffe]]
*[[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]
*[[User:LANDMACHINE Messenger|LANDMACHINE Messenger]]
*[[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]
</div></div>

<div id='box'>
== Transcript ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: Jack, I trust you when you say you have made progress talking to the microbarons. When can we expect to see the fruits of this progress, and what is the plan for rejoining these microparcels to adjoining land?
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Jack - what is the status on the new infohubs (Helfell, Hyanisport, Arapaima, Barbarossa, and Hau Koda)?
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: Yes. When will we see some effects?
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hey Rem.. things are moving along well, the volume of micro parcels is still heading down but not as quickly as we'd like so we have more to do there
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: I have my third coffee so it's perfect:)
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Someone has an open mic!
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: the ones who own the most expensive and extensive plots are not budging jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: loll, quand je me réveille, ça me prends le café:)
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: jack. You say it's moving, but where can we see the evidence?
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Most of the micro-barons are being very understanding and open to working with us, but we still need to see that progress being made
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: timeframe?
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Drongle, i guess it depends where you are on the Mainland.. i've certainly been getting feedback from people that things are turning
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: But it's not dramatic, but more gradual
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Dave Herbst was complaining that he couldn't actually get in contact with anyone at LL to make progress
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: Can you give us any numbers....extrapolations?
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: so gradual i dont really notice it jack, and i have over 40 cut areas
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Marianne, the bay city one is the next we are tackling.. Blondin Linden is drawing up plans to improve hubs generally
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: WB Melodie
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Melodie Darwin|Melodie Darwin]]: ty
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Well, has anybody seen any progress from Prince/Footman, or Austin Hallard? Or anybody *big* ?
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Drongle, i'll ask for the latest numbers now.. hopefully they will land in my IMs before the end of the meeting
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Cool, Jack. Are the others set to open eventually as well? I assume Arapaima is the Ursula one, of course
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: capitalist pigs?
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: no they havent budged thats my point
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Well Capitalist Pigs prices are down
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Yeah Marianne, they are all on the plan
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Well near me they are down, still expensive mind yoou
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: Not near me.
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: okay some numbers for you..
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: The only trend I see is an increase in the bottom price for 16s.....the microplotters are benefitting.
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: currently there are 14300 16m parcels for sale.. down from 22,000 before christmas.. and 16,930 before the land cutting blog post
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: are they holding out for a trade deal jack?
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Yeah numbers, 388, 799 and 900 seem common
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: Hmm
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: many micros were taken off the market, but they are still there
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: 14000 on 5000 mainland sims is almost 3 per sim
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: are there any plans for dealing with those?
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: There has been some discussion on trades... large volumes of 16m parcels in exchange for large single parcels, on the strict understanding that they don't then do the same again
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]: Hello!
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]: Hi Susie :)
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]] wonders how 14,300 and 22,000 compare to actual numbers of 4X4s
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: that would work
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: how about any plans for rejoining those parcels?
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Arawn, we have those numbers too of course, but i don't have them to hand right now
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]: Hi Jack
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: That should work, how about us being able to request they get moved into a line?
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: So since your post you've eliminated 2000ish of 16000 parcels? That's pretty weak
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]] gave you JLOH20090408.
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: I mean a line of parcels so they don't have parcels that ruin plot shapes
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Rem, good question! as we get all these tiny parcels back we're going to have to do something sensible with them.. we've been looking at how best to contact neighbours to give them first option
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: thanks jack
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: what about all the ones nfs - dr destiny comes to mind....
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius.. it's a start. As I've said before, we know we have to push those numbers down much more - and we'll get there, but it's a process rather than us simply flipping a switch
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]] wonders if it might help, to allow fractional tier, for 4X4 purchasers
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I mean you're just talking about parcels that are for sale. It really would be a flip of a switch to take them off the market
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: Jack, I saw someone mention earlier that they were having a hard time getting in touch with Linden. I have an issue regarding LAND SEARCH that has been going on for nearly 2 weeks now. I have been promised and promised that i would be contacted. I submitted a ticket and spoke to 4 member of the Concierge team.
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ciaran, managing them into better positions - agreed, where that makes sense it would help
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: hi Holo!
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: Jack, thank you and the team for putting a stop to large scale land cutting. However, what we have seen in the past few weeks are many instances of small scale commercial cutting - the dividing of one larger parcel into 4 to 6 smaller ones ranging from 96 sqm. to 16 sqm. that are then set for sale. Are these commercial cuts deemed ok by LL, or are they just getting under your radar?
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: Can you please tell me what i have to do to get an answer, jack?
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: heya :) and everyone who hasnt rezzed
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Alexxa, sorry to hear that.. but hard for me to deal with specific support requests in an open meeting. You'd really need to go through support
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: I have Jack...
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: for 2 weeks
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: make a complain ticket alexxa...that helps most of the time :)
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: TY Equinox
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: :-)
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: :)
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: eep
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Rem.. the data we pull is universal, so things don't drop under our radar, however, we have to focus energy on the biggest wins right now as we have a fixed resource level.
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: when will the statistic page be up again?
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: But all of them will ultimately be dealt with and if you see clear cut cases, do AR them
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I think we're hoping for stats to be up by end of April
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: good news
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I see you guys even stopped publishing the underlying data for the statistics page for the last couple of months
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: so originally we were told we didnt have to AR cuts - is that changed and is it appropriate to AR them when we find them?
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: <makes a note to remind jack again end of april>
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Rem, ARing just highlights them, we already see it all in the data but where you see blatant cutting that has recently happened it can be helpful
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: ARing old cut areas is less useful as we already know about them
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: ok thanks
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]] raises hand timidly
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hey holocluck
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: ask away!
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: heya - question - how are the parcels determined for auction? Is it a queue or a random selection
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: it's a bit of both actually. every parcel that comes back to us has a story so we tend to wait a while before we wipe them and sell them in case people pop up and tell us that it was a mistake
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: An auctions alert list would be damn handy for sims where I have land
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: yes!
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We do tend to look for large, intact parcels as best we can
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: indeed, Ciaran. Or even adjacent regions, etc.
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Sorry I'm late. Had a client. :)
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: its just that i have seen a whole region since I first rezzed and it's still purple, but others I think were purplized this year and put to auction
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: good idea ciaran
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: smaller parcels i mean
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ciaran.. funnily enough we plan to do that.. we're looking to make some fairly significant additions to the Land pages over 2009 and being able to Watch regions and be informed about land there is on that list
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Cheers Jack :)
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: would such a feature cause lag? I know thats a strange question but there would have to be some sort of scripting associated with the queued parcel
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: no it shouldn't because of the way we're going to collect the data away from the main db
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: obviously if you watch too many it might kill your inbox. :)
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: heh
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Yeah as anyone who didn't change their preferences on the new blog found out ;)
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: we'd also like to use rss more for land type notifications
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: ha yes Ciaran
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: when will we get the final decision about the price increase for homesteads in july
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Equinox, final decision in what sense?
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: if there will be one or not
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: i mean you lost over 8000 homesteads by now
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: just tought it would make you think about it again
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: well as it stands it is set to go ahead.
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: were people using them like regular islands?
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: we didn't lose 8000. we had a lot of conversions up to full regions
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Often Holo
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: i know...but 8000 homesteads are gone
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: about 2000 you lost for good
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: You're still losing about 100 sims a week, do you have projections for where the sim count is going to go?
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Yeah but you lost the homesteads Jack, even if they were converted, you made the product unpalatable
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Sadly, I'll be losing a homestead this week. Was a private workspace, but can nolonger justify the cost
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: thats over 60% of them...and the rest will be gone if you really increase
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Heck i converted 4 homesteads up to a full, mind you now i dont eat fridays.
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: conversions are still continuing yeah, which we expected. there are still a lot of people adapting and changing the mix
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Ah Uni if you'd waited you'd have only needed to use 3 for that
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: heheh Uni I went up a tier and no longer order delivery
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: as you can probably imagine, we wouldn't announce changes at office hours anyways hehe.. it would always go to the blog first.
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: i gave one of mine to the estate owner to fold into another
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: Anorexia SLia
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: how many of you have been keeping up with the Bot discussion?
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: we're set to blog again on that in the next few days
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: No it went on too long
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Ugh, I started but but after a few days it just was too much
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Is that technically even possible considering the length of the threads involved?
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: now that we've had so much feedback
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Melodie Darwin|Melodie Darwin]]: that format is awful
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: yes how silly of you all to think they would announce in-world things that affect the in-world immersive experience.
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: you mean Profky's discussion Jack?
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: It's devolved into nonsense anyway
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: i got bored with after the first day hehe
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: It got way too bogged down to keep up with
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: It's too repetitive .... all the arguments have been made before.
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Exactly, Chaos
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: yes, it got slow to load too, which was a learning experience for our devs :)
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: I would rather see a sticky to the forums for comments instead of trying to read the blog comments.
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I think it now takes a few minutes for me to load that page
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: a bit of post moderation would be positive Jack
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: So we need to fix that
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Blue does moderate
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Well, the threaded view is pretty useless I think. Would be nice if I could increase the page s the flat view
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: chaos then they'd get attacked for that
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: the forums really are easier to use, but i can't imagine anybody wants to hear that.
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: the posts seem to take up too much vertical space for me, which hides the indenting
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: heheh
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Learning experience for your devs? O.o Are they wet-behind-the-ears noobs, or something? :P Long-ass page = slow loading. Web 101.
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Just change to flat view and you can read everything in chronological order, the way God intended
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: the blog team are looking to make improvements anyway, it was very much a first outing
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: i think it was easier when the blog linked to an associated thread in the forum
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: the indenting is confusing yes
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: So what do you intend to blog about regarding bots anyway? Any hints?
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Can the blogs allow for "View first Unread" like the forums?
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dytska.. i'll ask, not sure
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: or replies to me ala Twitter
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Forums do what forums do best.. discussion threads.
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]: Better the blog should link to a forum. Aren't the blogs still a competition to use up blog space?
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Blogs do what blogs do best.. announcements and articles.
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: "Now we have read your feedback, we are going to talk to the bot owners"
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Kyrion Yalin|Kyrion Yalin]]: Greetings
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: and feedback. and you know blog feedback always includes discussion and comment commentary. might as well be in a more organized format
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: when do you plan to make any decisions about the bots?
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: heya Kyrion!
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ciaran.. I think the arguments on the thread lead to a fairly natural decision.. we're certainly not interested in banning bots in general, but people do seem to agree that gaming of things like search is not cool
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: LOL, unlike my ad farm you'll pry my bots from my cold dead fingers <G>
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: How does someone run 20 or 30 bots when there are limits on the number of accounts per person anyway?
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]] wishes the lindens good fortune, in their discussion with bot owner bots.
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: and with it being so easy to see that activity in the rankings etc, it would seem sensible that we address it
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: haha Elanthius
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Oh Ciaran, it's pretty easyto get around the account limits
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Eventually they ban your IP from creating new accounts though
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: So? restart your modem/router and get a new IP. :P
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]: Isn't there a way to update your IP, each time you're banned for griefing?
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: we have some pretty good data on Bots, and the individuals that are producing large numbers of them
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: not everyone has a randomly assigned ip address.. tsk tsk
*[11:31 SLT] IM: Timo Daehlie: aye .. ;)
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: Jack, i can creat an jira for new freature, to add an "proxy scan" for bad gate? :)
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: can you tell us now many bots are online if you have the data?
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: what we have to look at is the net impact on resources and other residents etc
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yeah, but anyone who wants to beat the IP bans does and/or can get one. :P
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Proxy scans only go so far, unfortunately. :P
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: esp gamers and people with routers re dynamic IP
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: lol people usually pay more for static ones and engage in honest activity
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]] shrugs
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Equinox, i don't have that number. But i think that from what i've seen its lower than people think
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: IP address bans are paper tigers. Ditto hardware hash. The best shot you have is account ban at the time of this writing, or voiding someone's credit card details.
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: People think it's 50% of all avatars. there were some fairly thorough studies done
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: might be..it is hard to tell
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Still think the best solution is unlinking traffic from search
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: And even then, those aren't perfect systems.
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Well nobody will believe you on the numbers Jack so probably best to avoid that stat
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Yeah.
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: lol
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hehe
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: It'll be easy to count them. Just ban traffic bots and see how many people are still left
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Or again, finding a more optimal system, even if it just means extending classifieds.
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: i would hope that rather than risk losing their traffic and therefore ranking, people would stop using bots for that
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: But we'll see
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: They won't
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: No incentive
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Not a chance, traffic sells
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: its trivial to make a 'bot' look exactly like the viewer where it would be undetectable by LL unless they added some routines to detect and compare activity.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]: Keep traffic stats, but subtract those remaining longer than 90 minutes.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: i think they should find a way to also detect camping scripts so schlubs are omitted from the statistics too
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Arawn, that sort of stuff is super trivial to get around
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: oh god, let's please not make all the traffic bots jump around the grid.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]] gave you New Note.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Yohan, but the driver there is search ranking generally, and so if you're in any way successful we'll see you rise up the rankings.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]] shudders
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Just do the simplest and most effective thing.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]: It would give the rest of us a chance at the camp stools.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: So the results of gaming are very visible
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Remove the incentive
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: lol arawn
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hehe arawn
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Interesting Jack, I see Prok's 10,000 posts on the blog have influenced you
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: She use a bot to post them? :P
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: lol
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: LOL!!
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: as long astraffic bots increase traffic which increases search ranking, people will continue to use them, if you remove the obviously gamed ratings, people will just cut back to stay just under the radar
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: no more than any of the others Elanthius.
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Talarus: Only explanation
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: even yours
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: :)
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Considering what Proky writes, I'd be interested in seeing her writing stack up against Eliza, or something.
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: It's an interesting theory though, just give everyone at the top of the search extra attention and don't worry about the people in the middle
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: I bet it'd be just as incoherent and entertaining.
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]] votes to give Proky the Turing Test. :P
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Indeed.
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius.. I suspect if we watched the first page closely, and dealt with those.. they would become more realistic and the next batch would rise and so on.. and over time you would see the gaming drop off a lot
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: Jack: is 'traffic' useful in any way for anything besides people using it to game?
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, if you're just going for a policy-only solution, you'll be tied up enforcing chasing down bot farms.
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: Good question Yohan...
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: kill traffic, save the database!
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: It's useful in giving residents unskilled, underpaid camping and greeter jobs. :p
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Leaving other, more important things left undone.
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: I was wondering thre same thing
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah it's not too bad a plan if you can keep on top of it. I'll be sure to get my bots to get my traffic up just enough to stay off the front page also
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: Jack..I see dead people...ghosted avatars on land, pretty regularly..and they don't clear till a restart..can't that be fixed?
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Yohan.. the problem with traffic is that we use it for two very different things, and those two are not compatible.. wits an open stat on parcels to tell you your traffic, and it's a part of search which probably shouldn't be understood in the same way
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: all you can do is restart pulse
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: cutting down traffic bots will just give rise again to camping, personally I would rather have the bots using less resources than attachment and resource heavy campers
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems the need here is people just want to pay for search results.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: One of the options we have it to have two distinct stats, the friendly visitor count on parcels. and then the much more complex stat used in search that we don't explain
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Traffic is dependent upon how long someone stays on a parcel as well as how many visitors so how useful it is surely depends on the parcel owner's interpretation
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: thanks..equinox..sometimes not on my land..at sim border is common.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Give them their own little slice of Classifieds and leave the rest of us in peace.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: But we're debating all of that at the moment.. and we have a great Search team who will do the right thing i'm sure
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Susie Chaffe|Susie Chaffe]]: naked camping will only be allowed in the adult continent Chaos
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: yeah I'm SURE they will too :P
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: Jack..can you expand on that further....2 different SEARCHES?
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: well not really. if it's inside a mature land structure and isnt obvious.
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: and when can we expect actions on that jack
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]] sees Holocliuck as Grey with Goggles
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: no Alexxa, 2 different stats. it's just one option, nothing has been decided at this point
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: lag happens arawn :)
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]: I practically sat on this couch, befor it became visible.
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: OK, let's get to the real deal though. The thing everyone really cares about. What about the land bot thing? You snuck that in there at the last minute. It was a bit of a kick in the pills
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: More like a diversion. :p
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: wasn't intending to damage any pills Elanthius, but they do cause their own problems
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: <G>
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]: Land Purchase Bots? Ideally, they're just more efficient purchasers.
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Sure, I was glad to see all these years of my own personal version of PR has worked it's magic. Not too much opposition anymore
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: land bots seemed to be less of an issue in the thread, and we do already take action where we see landbots eating too much resource or hitting search too often
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: yes actually speaking of landbots Jack, you have stated previously that support would help people who had made a mistake in setting land for sale, and yet I have still seen quite a few people who have had a problem and contacted support immediately only to be told they were SOL
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Honestly Elan? I think it's more people know bots are practically impossible to stop. :p
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: we also need to look at the use of groups of them to hit search as a team.. which we will do
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Still need that "Transfer" land button...
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Indeed Dytska
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Better UI, delayed listings
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: And we can thank Google for making the use of bots "for the common good"
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dytska, yeah we intend to provide a simple way to do that
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Maybe via a web interface
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: (While they trawl and subclassify our buying habits in ways Orwell would scream about, were he alive)
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: He's dead? O.o Are you sure?
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: actually, if all land sales were via a web interface, we could save a lot of grid resources. the bots wouldn't have to login at all.
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: we wrote alot about the additional feature blog......will any of the requests be done?
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: Jack: why not just add a button to the UI that sets for sale for 0L to the person in the dialog "Transfer Land" does the same as Set for Sale to 0L to Specific person, its really not that difficult and would solve 99% of the gripes about people getting their land "stolen"
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Chaos, in most cases that we see, if the resident contacts the land dealer they will be reasonable about obvious mistakes, but when they don't, and we know quickly enough, we have helped out
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yohan, yeah that's always been my favourite suggestion. About 2 minutes worth of development time as well
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: Jack: you need to be consistent about helping out those who make mistakes, its part of your responsibility as the Estate Manager
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: I also agree..transfer would be better..and prevent errors..
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah, no-one accidentally sells their land on a real estate
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: "We have helped out" doesn't cut it in my opinion.
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Equinox, a lot of those ideas from that thread have gone into triage as ideas to discuss so it was very useful indeed
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: ok thanks
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: There were some wonderful simple changes there that would have good results
*[11:46 SLT] Arawn Spitteler's seen a drunk the morning after
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: Jack..problem with Eject..puts avatar on nearby parcel..why not a Send Home option for landowners?
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Yohan, to be clear.. we do help out *where we can*, but in some cases it can be really difficult
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Boo, no eliminate all forms of teleport home. It's really annoying
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: I agree Pulse
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: It's not uncommon that by the time we're told, the land is reparcelled, divided and being lived on
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: really pulse...didnt notice that
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah well most of the evil landbotters do that stuff deliberately. Buy for L$1/sqm, sell for L$2.5/sqm to some other sucker
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: that happens with land cuts too unfortunately
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: If we had much more resource we could do a lot more obviously, but we have to work to the troops we have.
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: And then the problem is impossible to solve
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: You can alredy script a TP Home solution
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]: I've seen Voice crossing parcel boundaries, as a problem.
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: ok..will do that Talarus..
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: Jack, if I submit a patch to the viewer to add a "Transfer Land" option, will you do what you can to push it through the pipeline and get a decision made one way or the other?
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: Jack as Elan has stated, there are those that immediately resell, and do so in hidden groups etc, which even if a support ticket is put in, the land has already been resold, sometimes more than once
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Yohan, of course. happy to
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]: Eject would simply sweep the idiot off your land, but some can holler across parcel boundaries, and AR becomes a biut difficult.
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yeah, I would love to limit shouts to parcels as well
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: llParcelSay() :P
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: and can sweep off your land..onto your other land too. ;)
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Or y'know. Write a shout-detected ICBM. :D
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]: Voice was being used to disrupt a class, and parcel boundaries couldn't stop
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: I don't think Sumi would like that much, though. >_>
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Chaos, agreed that is bad and hard for us to deal with. I'll give some thought to whether we need a more directive policy for the support staff on those situations
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: I would have sworn you could restrict voice to your own parcel though
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Melodie Darwin|Melodie Darwin]]: so Jack, sorry if you already answered this, but I crashed - is there a timeframe in place for the microparcels disappearing?
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: You can restrict sounds.
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Not the typed shouts but sounds - yes exactly
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: Jack, the big thing is that support on such issues is hit or miss - concierge is usually great, however normal premium support tends to be more of the oh well too bad responses
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Dunno if that includes voice. I suppose not
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]: Parcel Sound Limit might not work for Voice, yet.
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: How about the spatial private channel?
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: chaos.. we have so many complex situations that it's pretty hard to be totally uniform but we try! when we get common cases we set internal guidance and then we get much more concistency and that happens most of the time
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Wonder if changing the voice channel would help
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: So maybe we just need to lay out some clear guidance to help the agents
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: what does "use a private spatial channel" do, if not that?
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: :)
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: No I'm almost sure it does Arawan buecase I remember limiting it when my neo-nazi neighbors got a bit too rambunctious
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: But i'll definitely give that some though
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: *t
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: right, we have a few mins left.. any late shoutouts?
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: Hi Mom
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: :)
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: There was Melodie's question...
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: Jack. Concerning network advertising....is it acceptable for a single network to have more than one hoarding on a sim if the plots hosting them have different owners, or is that regarded as circumventing the rules?
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Hi Yohan's Mom
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: lol
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: Jack, one other land bitch - hidden groups should not be allowed to sell land - if I go to my transaction history, and see that I have bought something from a group, I should be able to find who owns that group
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: yipes Melodie, please repeat if i missed oe
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: *one
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Wait, another one., bring back that missing tab in the group's Land &L$ page
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Drongle, i think that would be circumventing
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Melodie Darwin|Melodie Darwin]]: is there a time frame for dealing with microparcels?
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: It's fricking killing me that it's missing. Well, actually it's not so bad because I can still get the data with bots, but it's still crazy
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: 'network' is not a way to go around the rules
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, they are
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: RezAds
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: point me at some ARs, i'll ask someone to take a look
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: how do we point you at ARs?
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: We don't get numbers or anything
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Chaos, ooh that's a good point. I'll look into that
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: i send a ar, if its realy urgent :)
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: I didn't AR until I had asked you.
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: you should get an email back with an AR number on it
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Just AR Jack directly. The G Team will contact him eventually
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I haven't gotten those in years
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: haha elanthius
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: I get the emails, that's the last you hear about it
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:LANDMACHINE Messenger|LANDMACHINE Messenger]]: mearley Catteneo Born: 2007-07-16 (No Payment Info) Visited Parcel 63968 on Thu, 09 Apr 2009 11:56:27 -0700 http://slurl.com/secondlife/Clanis/48/148/0
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: They changed the AR system in 2007 to no longer send AR emails
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: jack, the microparcel timeframe?
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: or at least ones with tracking numbers in them
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: It would be nice if the emails contained some identifying information about the AR that was sent.
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: Jack, yes because due a policy of confidancyality i never recive other email with action taken :)
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: confidanciality* sorry lol
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Melodie.. just as soon as we can but remember we didn't state small parcels weren't allowed, but what we are doing is saying to the micro-barons that as estate manager we need to drive that number down, and the prices too. So we are working with them to improve things.
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: If that doesn't work quickly enough, we will do something else
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Define "quickly enough"
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]: Confidentially, action is rarely taken. An idea that seems obvious, for microoparcels, is to allow 16¢ tier increments, for adjacent parcels.
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: it isn't working quickly enough.
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: I think last month you said something like around this time 'next month' definite results would be seen...
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: A guess - there are 1600 micros left and they are going at 1000/month - that's 16 months.
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yup. Have that as a quote.
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: *16000!!
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]: are the rules for network advertising available anywhere?
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:LANDMACHINE Messenger|LANDMACHINE Messenger]]: mearley Catteneo Born: 2007-07-16 (No Payment Info) Visited Parcel 63968 on Thu, 09 Apr 2009 11:58:27 -0700 http://slurl.com/secondlife/Clanis/48/148/0
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Melodie Darwin|Melodie Darwin]]: Jack I just got a floaty sign taken down i have ARd for 3 months, the blatant ad farm I have been ARing is still there. Old policies still arent being enforced either
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: Jake, i understend this but if i send a AR , i like to look the resulte of this actions, and its not confidantial because i have send this AR :)
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: i think the actual quote was that you can come kick me if there was no progress. ;)
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: but there has been! but yeah, i agree that it's not quick enough
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Well, it's pretty easy to find and rank statistical outliers based on the market average and surrounding land value.
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: I have similar experiences Melodie, repeated AR's because the AR system is a black hole
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: Where do we get the kick animation?
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: Jack..so..a high priced microparcel..is not in violation of any policy if there is no ad on it? just to be clear?
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: is that just for the micro parcels or in general jack :)
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: can we kick you when a support ticket takes more than 7 days *g*
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Time f'r me to run. Have fun, all!
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Bye Bye!!
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: baibai
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: "If you guys aren’t seeing significant change this time next month, you can come prod me. But you really should see some changes soon …”
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: or more than 2weeks?
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Real soon now....
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: catlle prods anyone?
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Pulseburst.. at this time, correct.
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: ok. thanks
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: :) okays guys.. I have to run
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: some.... maybe "miniscule" is more like it
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: thank you all!
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: take care jack...and Happy Easter!
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, if we consider "significant change" local, then we're now prodding you. :)
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: bye Jack.
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: Jack stand up and take your beating like a man
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: thank you jack
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Thanks Jack cya!
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: I think we need a threat at the end of that. Like, if we don't see results in two weeks, we get a day devoted to orbiting Jack. :D
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: Yohn LOL
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: hahahahahahahaha
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Cheers Jack
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hahahahaha
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: lol
</div></div>

<div id='box' style='text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em;'>
Generated by [http://kuraiko.zeitenwerk.de/wikify.php SL Chatlog Wikify]
</div>

[[Category:Jack_Linden_Office_Hours]]

Jack Linden Office Hour Transcripts

2009-04-23T20:26:50Z

Elanthius Flagstaff:

Please delete this page

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-04-09

2009-04-23T20:25:55Z

Elanthius Flagstaff:

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-04-09

2009-04-23T20:25:33Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: New page: <div id='box'> == List of Attendees == <div style='padding: 0.5em'> *Rem Nightfire *Marianne McCann *[[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]...

<div id='box'>
== List of Attendees ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]
*[[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]
*[[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]
*[[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]
*[[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]
*[[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]
*[[User:Melodie Darwin|Melodie Darwin]]
*[[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]
*[[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]
*[[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]
*[[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]
*[[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]
*[[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]
*[[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]
*[[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]
*[[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]
*[[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]
*[[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]
*[[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]
*[[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]
*[[User:Kyrion Yalin|Kyrion Yalin]]
*[[User:[11:31 SLT] IM: Timo Daehlie: aye .. ;)
|[11:31 SLT] IM: Timo Daehlie: aye .. ;)
]]
*[[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]
*[[User:Susie Chaffe|Susie Chaffe]]
*[[User:[11:46 SLT] Arawn Spitteler's seen a drunk the morning after
|[11:46 SLT] Arawn Spitteler's seen a drunk the morning after
]]
*[[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]
*[[User:LANDMACHINE Messenger|LANDMACHINE Messenger]]
*[[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]
</div></div>

<div id='box'>
== Transcript ==
<div style='padding: 0.5em'>
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: Jack, I trust you when you say you have made progress talking to the microbarons. When can we expect to see the fruits of this progress, and what is the plan for rejoining these microparcels to adjoining land?
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Jack - what is the status on the new infohubs (Helfell, Hyanisport, Arapaima, Barbarossa, and Hau Koda)?
*[11:00 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: Yes. When will we see some effects?
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hey Rem.. things are moving along well, the volume of micro parcels is still heading down but not as quickly as we'd like so we have more to do there
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: I have my third coffee so it's perfect:)
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Someone has an open mic!
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: the ones who own the most expensive and extensive plots are not budging jack
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: loll, quand je me réveille, ça me prends le café:)
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: jack. You say it's moving, but where can we see the evidence?
*[11:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Most of the micro-barons are being very understanding and open to working with us, but we still need to see that progress being made
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: timeframe?
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Drongle, i guess it depends where you are on the Mainland.. i've certainly been getting feedback from people that things are turning
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: But it's not dramatic, but more gradual
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Dave Herbst was complaining that he couldn't actually get in contact with anyone at LL to make progress
*[11:02 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: Can you give us any numbers....extrapolations?
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: so gradual i dont really notice it jack, and i have over 40 cut areas
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Marianne, the bay city one is the next we are tackling.. Blondin Linden is drawing up plans to improve hubs generally
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: WB Melodie
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Melodie Darwin|Melodie Darwin]]: ty
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: Well, has anybody seen any progress from Prince/Footman, or Austin Hallard? Or anybody *big* ?
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Drongle, i'll ask for the latest numbers now.. hopefully they will land in my IMs before the end of the meeting
*[11:03 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Cool, Jack. Are the others set to open eventually as well? I assume Arapaima is the Ursula one, of course
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: capitalist pigs?
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: no they havent budged thats my point
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Well Capitalist Pigs prices are down
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Yeah Marianne, they are all on the plan
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Well near me they are down, still expensive mind yoou
*[11:04 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: Not near me.
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: okay some numbers for you..
*[11:05 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: The only trend I see is an increase in the bottom price for 16s.....the microplotters are benefitting.
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: currently there are 14300 16m parcels for sale.. down from 22,000 before christmas.. and 16,930 before the land cutting blog post
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: are they holding out for a trade deal jack?
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Yeah numbers, 388, 799 and 900 seem common
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: Hmm
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: many micros were taken off the market, but they are still there
*[11:06 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: 14000 on 5000 mainland sims is almost 3 per sim
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: are there any plans for dealing with those?
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: There has been some discussion on trades... large volumes of 16m parcels in exchange for large single parcels, on the strict understanding that they don't then do the same again
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]: Hello!
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]: Hi Susie :)
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]] wonders how 14,300 and 22,000 compare to actual numbers of 4X4s
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: that would work
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: how about any plans for rejoining those parcels?
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Arawn, we have those numbers too of course, but i don't have them to hand right now
*[11:07 SLT] [[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]: Hi Jack
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: That should work, how about us being able to request they get moved into a line?
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: So since your post you've eliminated 2000ish of 16000 parcels? That's pretty weak
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]] gave you JLOH20090408.
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: I mean a line of parcels so they don't have parcels that ruin plot shapes
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Rem, good question! as we get all these tiny parcels back we're going to have to do something sensible with them.. we've been looking at how best to contact neighbours to give them first option
*[11:08 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: thanks jack
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: what about all the ones nfs - dr destiny comes to mind....
*[11:09 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius.. it's a start. As I've said before, we know we have to push those numbers down much more - and we'll get there, but it's a process rather than us simply flipping a switch
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]] wonders if it might help, to allow fractional tier, for 4X4 purchasers
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I mean you're just talking about parcels that are for sale. It really would be a flip of a switch to take them off the market
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: Jack, I saw someone mention earlier that they were having a hard time getting in touch with Linden. I have an issue regarding LAND SEARCH that has been going on for nearly 2 weeks now. I have been promised and promised that i would be contacted. I submitted a ticket and spoke to 4 member of the Concierge team.
*[11:10 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ciaran, managing them into better positions - agreed, where that makes sense it would help
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: hi Holo!
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: Jack, thank you and the team for putting a stop to large scale land cutting. However, what we have seen in the past few weeks are many instances of small scale commercial cutting - the dividing of one larger parcel into 4 to 6 smaller ones ranging from 96 sqm. to 16 sqm. that are then set for sale. Are these commercial cuts deemed ok by LL, or are they just getting under your radar?
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: Can you please tell me what i have to do to get an answer, jack?
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: heya :) and everyone who hasnt rezzed
*[11:11 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Alexxa, sorry to hear that.. but hard for me to deal with specific support requests in an open meeting. You'd really need to go through support
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: I have Jack...
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: for 2 weeks
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: make a complain ticket alexxa...that helps most of the time :)
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: TY Equinox
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: :-)
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: :)
*[11:12 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: eep
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Rem.. the data we pull is universal, so things don't drop under our radar, however, we have to focus energy on the biggest wins right now as we have a fixed resource level.
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: when will the statistic page be up again?
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: But all of them will ultimately be dealt with and if you see clear cut cases, do AR them
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I think we're hoping for stats to be up by end of April
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: good news
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: I see you guys even stopped publishing the underlying data for the statistics page for the last couple of months
*[11:13 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: so originally we were told we didnt have to AR cuts - is that changed and is it appropriate to AR them when we find them?
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: <makes a note to remind jack again end of april>
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Rem, ARing just highlights them, we already see it all in the data but where you see blatant cutting that has recently happened it can be helpful
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: ARing old cut areas is less useful as we already know about them
*[11:14 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: ok thanks
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]] raises hand timidly
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hey holocluck
*[11:15 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: ask away!
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: heya - question - how are the parcels determined for auction? Is it a queue or a random selection
*[11:16 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: it's a bit of both actually. every parcel that comes back to us has a story so we tend to wait a while before we wipe them and sell them in case people pop up and tell us that it was a mistake
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: An auctions alert list would be damn handy for sims where I have land
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: yes!
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: We do tend to look for large, intact parcels as best we can
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: indeed, Ciaran. Or even adjacent regions, etc.
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Sorry I'm late. Had a client. :)
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: its just that i have seen a whole region since I first rezzed and it's still purple, but others I think were purplized this year and put to auction
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: good idea ciaran
*[11:17 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: smaller parcels i mean
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ciaran.. funnily enough we plan to do that.. we're looking to make some fairly significant additions to the Land pages over 2009 and being able to Watch regions and be informed about land there is on that list
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Cheers Jack :)
*[11:18 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: would such a feature cause lag? I know thats a strange question but there would have to be some sort of scripting associated with the queued parcel
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: no it shouldn't because of the way we're going to collect the data away from the main db
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: obviously if you watch too many it might kill your inbox. :)
*[11:19 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: heh
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Yeah as anyone who didn't change their preferences on the new blog found out ;)
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: we'd also like to use rss more for land type notifications
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: ha yes Ciaran
*[11:20 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: when will we get the final decision about the price increase for homesteads in july
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Equinox, final decision in what sense?
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: if there will be one or not
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: i mean you lost over 8000 homesteads by now
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: just tought it would make you think about it again
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: well as it stands it is set to go ahead.
*[11:21 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: were people using them like regular islands?
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: we didn't lose 8000. we had a lot of conversions up to full regions
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Often Holo
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: i know...but 8000 homesteads are gone
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: about 2000 you lost for good
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: You're still losing about 100 sims a week, do you have projections for where the sim count is going to go?
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Yeah but you lost the homesteads Jack, even if they were converted, you made the product unpalatable
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Sadly, I'll be losing a homestead this week. Was a private workspace, but can nolonger justify the cost
*[11:22 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: thats over 60% of them...and the rest will be gone if you really increase
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Heck i converted 4 homesteads up to a full, mind you now i dont eat fridays.
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: conversions are still continuing yeah, which we expected. there are still a lot of people adapting and changing the mix
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Ah Uni if you'd waited you'd have only needed to use 3 for that
*[11:23 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: heheh Uni I went up a tier and no longer order delivery
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: as you can probably imagine, we wouldn't announce changes at office hours anyways hehe.. it would always go to the blog first.
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: i gave one of mine to the estate owner to fold into another
*[11:24 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: Anorexia SLia
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: how many of you have been keeping up with the Bot discussion?
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: we're set to blog again on that in the next few days
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: No it went on too long
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Ugh, I started but but after a few days it just was too much
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Is that technically even possible considering the length of the threads involved?
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: now that we've had so much feedback
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Melodie Darwin|Melodie Darwin]]: that format is awful
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: yes how silly of you all to think they would announce in-world things that affect the in-world immersive experience.
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: you mean Profky's discussion Jack?
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: It's devolved into nonsense anyway
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: i got bored with after the first day hehe
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: It got way too bogged down to keep up with
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: It's too repetitive .... all the arguments have been made before.
*[11:25 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Exactly, Chaos
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: yes, it got slow to load too, which was a learning experience for our devs :)
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: I would rather see a sticky to the forums for comments instead of trying to read the blog comments.
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: I think it now takes a few minutes for me to load that page
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: a bit of post moderation would be positive Jack
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: So we need to fix that
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Blue does moderate
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Well, the threaded view is pretty useless I think. Would be nice if I could increase the page s the flat view
*[11:26 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: chaos then they'd get attacked for that
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: the forums really are easier to use, but i can't imagine anybody wants to hear that.
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: the posts seem to take up too much vertical space for me, which hides the indenting
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: heheh
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Learning experience for your devs? O.o Are they wet-behind-the-ears noobs, or something? :P Long-ass page = slow loading. Web 101.
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Just change to flat view and you can read everything in chronological order, the way God intended
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: the blog team are looking to make improvements anyway, it was very much a first outing
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: i think it was easier when the blog linked to an associated thread in the forum
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: the indenting is confusing yes
*[11:27 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: So what do you intend to blog about regarding bots anyway? Any hints?
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Can the blogs allow for "View first Unread" like the forums?
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dytska.. i'll ask, not sure
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: or replies to me ala Twitter
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Forums do what forums do best.. discussion threads.
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]: Better the blog should link to a forum. Aren't the blogs still a competition to use up blog space?
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Blogs do what blogs do best.. announcements and articles.
*[11:28 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: "Now we have read your feedback, we are going to talk to the bot owners"
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Kyrion Yalin|Kyrion Yalin]]: Greetings
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: and feedback. and you know blog feedback always includes discussion and comment commentary. might as well be in a more organized format
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: when do you plan to make any decisions about the bots?
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: heya Kyrion!
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Ciaran.. I think the arguments on the thread lead to a fairly natural decision.. we're certainly not interested in banning bots in general, but people do seem to agree that gaming of things like search is not cool
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: LOL, unlike my ad farm you'll pry my bots from my cold dead fingers <G>
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: How does someone run 20 or 30 bots when there are limits on the number of accounts per person anyway?
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]] wishes the lindens good fortune, in their discussion with bot owner bots.
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: and with it being so easy to see that activity in the rankings etc, it would seem sensible that we address it
*[11:29 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: haha Elanthius
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Oh Ciaran, it's pretty easyto get around the account limits
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Eventually they ban your IP from creating new accounts though
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: So? restart your modem/router and get a new IP. :P
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]: Isn't there a way to update your IP, each time you're banned for griefing?
*[11:30 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: we have some pretty good data on Bots, and the individuals that are producing large numbers of them
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: not everyone has a randomly assigned ip address.. tsk tsk
*[11:31 SLT] IM: Timo Daehlie: aye .. ;)
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: Jack, i can creat an jira for new freature, to add an "proxy scan" for bad gate? :)
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: can you tell us now many bots are online if you have the data?
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: what we have to look at is the net impact on resources and other residents etc
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yeah, but anyone who wants to beat the IP bans does and/or can get one. :P
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Proxy scans only go so far, unfortunately. :P
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: esp gamers and people with routers re dynamic IP
*[11:31 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: lol people usually pay more for static ones and engage in honest activity
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]] shrugs
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Equinox, i don't have that number. But i think that from what i've seen its lower than people think
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: IP address bans are paper tigers. Ditto hardware hash. The best shot you have is account ban at the time of this writing, or voiding someone's credit card details.
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: People think it's 50% of all avatars. there were some fairly thorough studies done
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: might be..it is hard to tell
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Still think the best solution is unlinking traffic from search
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: And even then, those aren't perfect systems.
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Well nobody will believe you on the numbers Jack so probably best to avoid that stat
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Yeah.
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: lol
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hehe
*[11:32 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: It'll be easy to count them. Just ban traffic bots and see how many people are still left
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Or again, finding a more optimal system, even if it just means extending classifieds.
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: i would hope that rather than risk losing their traffic and therefore ranking, people would stop using bots for that
*[11:33 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: But we'll see
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: They won't
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: No incentive
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Not a chance, traffic sells
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: its trivial to make a 'bot' look exactly like the viewer where it would be undetectable by LL unless they added some routines to detect and compare activity.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]: Keep traffic stats, but subtract those remaining longer than 90 minutes.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: i think they should find a way to also detect camping scripts so schlubs are omitted from the statistics too
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Arawn, that sort of stuff is super trivial to get around
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: oh god, let's please not make all the traffic bots jump around the grid.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]] gave you New Note.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Yohan, but the driver there is search ranking generally, and so if you're in any way successful we'll see you rise up the rankings.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]] shudders
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Just do the simplest and most effective thing.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]: It would give the rest of us a chance at the camp stools.
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: So the results of gaming are very visible
*[11:34 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Remove the incentive
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: lol arawn
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hehe arawn
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Interesting Jack, I see Prok's 10,000 posts on the blog have influenced you
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: She use a bot to post them? :P
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: lol
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: LOL!!
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: as long astraffic bots increase traffic which increases search ranking, people will continue to use them, if you remove the obviously gamed ratings, people will just cut back to stay just under the radar
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: no more than any of the others Elanthius.
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Talarus: Only explanation
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: even yours
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: :)
*[11:35 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Considering what Proky writes, I'd be interested in seeing her writing stack up against Eliza, or something.
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: It's an interesting theory though, just give everyone at the top of the search extra attention and don't worry about the people in the middle
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: I bet it'd be just as incoherent and entertaining.
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]] votes to give Proky the Turing Test. :P
*[11:36 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Indeed.
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Elanthius.. I suspect if we watched the first page closely, and dealt with those.. they would become more realistic and the next batch would rise and so on.. and over time you would see the gaming drop off a lot
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: Jack: is 'traffic' useful in any way for anything besides people using it to game?
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, if you're just going for a policy-only solution, you'll be tied up enforcing chasing down bot farms.
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: Good question Yohan...
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: kill traffic, save the database!
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: It's useful in giving residents unskilled, underpaid camping and greeter jobs. :p
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Leaving other, more important things left undone.
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: I was wondering thre same thing
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah it's not too bad a plan if you can keep on top of it. I'll be sure to get my bots to get my traffic up just enough to stay off the front page also
*[11:37 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: Jack..I see dead people...ghosted avatars on land, pretty regularly..and they don't clear till a restart..can't that be fixed?
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Yohan.. the problem with traffic is that we use it for two very different things, and those two are not compatible.. wits an open stat on parcels to tell you your traffic, and it's a part of search which probably shouldn't be understood in the same way
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: all you can do is restart pulse
*[11:38 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: cutting down traffic bots will just give rise again to camping, personally I would rather have the bots using less resources than attachment and resource heavy campers
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems the need here is people just want to pay for search results.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: One of the options we have it to have two distinct stats, the friendly visitor count on parcels. and then the much more complex stat used in search that we don't explain
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Traffic is dependent upon how long someone stays on a parcel as well as how many visitors so how useful it is surely depends on the parcel owner's interpretation
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: thanks..equinox..sometimes not on my land..at sim border is common.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Give them their own little slice of Classifieds and leave the rest of us in peace.
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: But we're debating all of that at the moment.. and we have a great Search team who will do the right thing i'm sure
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Susie Chaffe|Susie Chaffe]]: naked camping will only be allowed in the adult continent Chaos
*[11:39 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: yeah I'm SURE they will too :P
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: Jack..can you expand on that further....2 different SEARCHES?
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: well not really. if it's inside a mature land structure and isnt obvious.
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: and when can we expect actions on that jack
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]] sees Holocliuck as Grey with Goggles
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: no Alexxa, 2 different stats. it's just one option, nothing has been decided at this point
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Holocluck Henly|Holocluck Henly]]: lag happens arawn :)
*[11:40 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]: I practically sat on this couch, befor it became visible.
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: OK, let's get to the real deal though. The thing everyone really cares about. What about the land bot thing? You snuck that in there at the last minute. It was a bit of a kick in the pills
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: More like a diversion. :p
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: wasn't intending to damage any pills Elanthius, but they do cause their own problems
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: <G>
*[11:41 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]: Land Purchase Bots? Ideally, they're just more efficient purchasers.
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Sure, I was glad to see all these years of my own personal version of PR has worked it's magic. Not too much opposition anymore
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: land bots seemed to be less of an issue in the thread, and we do already take action where we see landbots eating too much resource or hitting search too often
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: yes actually speaking of landbots Jack, you have stated previously that support would help people who had made a mistake in setting land for sale, and yet I have still seen quite a few people who have had a problem and contacted support immediately only to be told they were SOL
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Honestly Elan? I think it's more people know bots are practically impossible to stop. :p
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: we also need to look at the use of groups of them to hit search as a team.. which we will do
*[11:42 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: Still need that "Transfer" land button...
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Indeed Dytska
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Better UI, delayed listings
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: And we can thank Google for making the use of bots "for the common good"
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Dytska, yeah we intend to provide a simple way to do that
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Maybe via a web interface
*[11:43 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: (While they trawl and subclassify our buying habits in ways Orwell would scream about, were he alive)
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: He's dead? O.o Are you sure?
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: actually, if all land sales were via a web interface, we could save a lot of grid resources. the bots wouldn't have to login at all.
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: we wrote alot about the additional feature blog......will any of the requests be done?
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: Jack: why not just add a button to the UI that sets for sale for 0L to the person in the dialog "Transfer Land" does the same as Set for Sale to 0L to Specific person, its really not that difficult and would solve 99% of the gripes about people getting their land "stolen"
*[11:44 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Chaos, in most cases that we see, if the resident contacts the land dealer they will be reasonable about obvious mistakes, but when they don't, and we know quickly enough, we have helped out
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yohan, yeah that's always been my favourite suggestion. About 2 minutes worth of development time as well
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: Jack: you need to be consistent about helping out those who make mistakes, its part of your responsibility as the Estate Manager
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: I also agree..transfer would be better..and prevent errors..
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah, no-one accidentally sells their land on a real estate
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: "We have helped out" doesn't cut it in my opinion.
*[11:45 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Equinox, a lot of those ideas from that thread have gone into triage as ideas to discuss so it was very useful indeed
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: ok thanks
*[11:46 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: There were some wonderful simple changes there that would have good results
*[11:46 SLT] Arawn Spitteler's seen a drunk the morning after
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: Jack..problem with Eject..puts avatar on nearby parcel..why not a Send Home option for landowners?
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Yohan, to be clear.. we do help out *where we can*, but in some cases it can be really difficult
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Boo, no eliminate all forms of teleport home. It's really annoying
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: I agree Pulse
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: It's not uncommon that by the time we're told, the land is reparcelled, divided and being lived on
*[11:47 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: really pulse...didnt notice that
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Yeah well most of the evil landbotters do that stuff deliberately. Buy for L$1/sqm, sell for L$2.5/sqm to some other sucker
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: that happens with land cuts too unfortunately
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: If we had much more resource we could do a lot more obviously, but we have to work to the troops we have.
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: And then the problem is impossible to solve
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: You can alredy script a TP Home solution
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]: I've seen Voice crossing parcel boundaries, as a problem.
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: ok..will do that Talarus..
*[11:48 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: Jack, if I submit a patch to the viewer to add a "Transfer Land" option, will you do what you can to push it through the pipeline and get a decision made one way or the other?
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: Jack as Elan has stated, there are those that immediately resell, and do so in hidden groups etc, which even if a support ticket is put in, the land has already been resold, sometimes more than once
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Yohan, of course. happy to
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]: Eject would simply sweep the idiot off your land, but some can holler across parcel boundaries, and AR becomes a biut difficult.
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yeah, I would love to limit shouts to parcels as well
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: llParcelSay() :P
*[11:49 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: and can sweep off your land..onto your other land too. ;)
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Or y'know. Write a shout-detected ICBM. :D
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]: Voice was being used to disrupt a class, and parcel boundaries couldn't stop
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: I don't think Sumi would like that much, though. >_>
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Chaos, agreed that is bad and hard for us to deal with. I'll give some thought to whether we need a more directive policy for the support staff on those situations
*[11:50 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: I would have sworn you could restrict voice to your own parcel though
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Melodie Darwin|Melodie Darwin]]: so Jack, sorry if you already answered this, but I crashed - is there a timeframe in place for the microparcels disappearing?
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: You can restrict sounds.
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: Not the typed shouts but sounds - yes exactly
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: Jack, the big thing is that support on such issues is hit or miss - concierge is usually great, however normal premium support tends to be more of the oh well too bad responses
*[11:51 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Dunno if that includes voice. I suppose not
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]: Parcel Sound Limit might not work for Voice, yet.
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: How about the spatial private channel?
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: chaos.. we have so many complex situations that it's pretty hard to be totally uniform but we try! when we get common cases we set internal guidance and then we get much more concistency and that happens most of the time
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Wonder if changing the voice channel would help
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: So maybe we just need to lay out some clear guidance to help the agents
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: what does "use a private spatial channel" do, if not that?
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: :)
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: No I'm almost sure it does Arawan buecase I remember limiting it when my neo-nazi neighbors got a bit too rambunctious
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: But i'll definitely give that some though
*[11:52 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: *t
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: right, we have a few mins left.. any late shoutouts?
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: Hi Mom
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: :)
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: There was Melodie's question...
*[11:53 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: Jack. Concerning network advertising....is it acceptable for a single network to have more than one hoarding on a sim if the plots hosting them have different owners, or is that regarded as circumventing the rules?
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Hi Yohan's Mom
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Moon Corrigible|Moon Corrigible]]: lol
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Chaos Mohr|Chaos Mohr]]: Jack, one other land bitch - hidden groups should not be allowed to sell land - if I go to my transaction history, and see that I have bought something from a group, I should be able to find who owns that group
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: yipes Melodie, please repeat if i missed oe
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: *one
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Wait, another one., bring back that missing tab in the group's Land &L$ page
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Drongle, i think that would be circumventing
*[11:54 SLT] [[User:Melodie Darwin|Melodie Darwin]]: is there a time frame for dealing with microparcels?
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: It's fricking killing me that it's missing. Well, actually it's not so bad because I can still get the data with bots, but it's still crazy
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: 'network' is not a way to go around the rules
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, they are
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: RezAds
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: point me at some ARs, i'll ask someone to take a look
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: how do we point you at ARs?
*[11:55 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: We don't get numbers or anything
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Chaos, ooh that's a good point. I'll look into that
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: i send a ar, if its realy urgent :)
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: I didn't AR until I had asked you.
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: you should get an email back with an AR number on it
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Elanthius Flagstaff|Elanthius Flagstaff]]: Just AR Jack directly. The G Team will contact him eventually
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: I haven't gotten those in years
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: haha elanthius
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: I get the emails, that's the last you hear about it
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:LANDMACHINE Messenger|LANDMACHINE Messenger]]: mearley Catteneo Born: 2007-07-16 (No Payment Info) Visited Parcel 63968 on Thu, 09 Apr 2009 11:56:27 -0700 http://slurl.com/secondlife/Clanis/48/148/0
*[11:56 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: They changed the AR system in 2007 to no longer send AR emails
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: jack, the microparcel timeframe?
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: or at least ones with tracking numbers in them
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: It would be nice if the emails contained some identifying information about the AR that was sent.
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: Jack, yes because due a policy of confidancyality i never recive other email with action taken :)
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: confidanciality* sorry lol
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Melodie.. just as soon as we can but remember we didn't state small parcels weren't allowed, but what we are doing is saying to the micro-barons that as estate manager we need to drive that number down, and the prices too. So we are working with them to improve things.
*[11:57 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: If that doesn't work quickly enough, we will do something else
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Define "quickly enough"
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Arawn Spitteler|Arawn Spitteler]]: Confidentially, action is rarely taken. An idea that seems obvious, for microoparcels, is to allow 16¢ tier increments, for adjacent parcels.
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Qie Niangao|Qie Niangao]]: it isn't working quickly enough.
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Dytska Vieria|Dytska Vieria]]: I think last month you said something like around this time 'next month' definite results would be seen...
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: A guess - there are 1600 micros left and they are going at 1000/month - that's 16 months.
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Yup. Have that as a quote.
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: *16000!!
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Indigo Mertel|Indigo Mertel]]: are the rules for network advertising available anywhere?
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:LANDMACHINE Messenger|LANDMACHINE Messenger]]: mearley Catteneo Born: 2007-07-16 (No Payment Info) Visited Parcel 63968 on Thu, 09 Apr 2009 11:58:27 -0700 http://slurl.com/secondlife/Clanis/48/148/0
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Melodie Darwin|Melodie Darwin]]: Jack I just got a floaty sign taken down i have ARd for 3 months, the blatant ad farm I have been ARing is still there. Old policies still arent being enforced either
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Yann Dufaux|Yann Dufaux]]: Jake, i understend this but if i send a AR , i like to look the resulte of this actions, and its not confidantial because i have send this AR :)
*[11:58 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: i think the actual quote was that you can come kick me if there was no progress. ;)
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: but there has been! but yeah, i agree that it's not quick enough
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Well, it's pretty easy to find and rank statistical outliers based on the market average and surrounding land value.
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: I have similar experiences Melodie, repeated AR's because the AR system is a black hole
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: Where do we get the kick animation?
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: Jack..so..a high priced microparcel..is not in violation of any policy if there is no ad on it? just to be clear?
*[11:59 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: is that just for the micro parcels or in general jack :)
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: can we kick you when a support ticket takes more than 7 days *g*
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Time f'r me to run. Have fun, all!
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Marianne McCann|Marianne McCann]]: Bye Bye!!
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: baibai
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: "If you guys aren’t seeing significant change this time next month, you can come prod me. But you really should see some changes soon …”
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: or more than 2weeks?
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: Real soon now....
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Drongle McMahon|Drongle McMahon]]: catlle prods anyone?
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: Pulseburst.. at this time, correct.
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: ok. thanks
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: :) okays guys.. I have to run
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: some.... maybe "miniscule" is more like it
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: thank you all!
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Equinox Pinion|Equinox Pinion]]: take care jack...and Happy Easter!
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:Talarus Luan|Talarus Luan]]: Well, if we consider "significant change" local, then we're now prodding you. :)
*[12:00 SLT] [[User:PulseBurst Flow|PulseBurst Flow]]: bye Jack.
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Yohan Pintens|Yohan Pintens]]: Jack stand up and take your beating like a man
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Rem Nightfire|Rem Nightfire]]: thank you jack
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: Thanks Jack cya!
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Fontte Newbold|Fontte Newbold]]: I think we need a threat at the end of that. Like, if we don't see results in two weeks, we get a day devoted to orbiting Jack. :D
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Alexxa Despres|Alexxa Despres]]: Yohn LOL
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Timo Daehlie|Timo Daehlie]]: hahahahahahahaha
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Ciaran Laval|Ciaran Laval]]: Cheers Jack
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Jack Linden|Jack Linden]]: hahahahaha
*[12:01 SLT] [[User:Uni Ninetails|Uni Ninetails]]: lol
</div></div>

<div id='box' style='text-align: center; font-size: 0.9em;'>
Generated by [http://kuraiko.zeitenwerk.de/wikify.php SL Chatlog Wikify]
</div>

Category:Jack Linden Office Hours

2009-04-23T20:22:29Z

Elanthius Flagstaff:

Transcripts of Jack Linden's office hours. Collected by various users.

[[Category:Office Hours]]

Category:Jack Linden Office Hours

2009-04-23T20:22:20Z

Elanthius Flagstaff:

Transcripts of Jack Linden's office hours. Collected by various users.

[[Category:Jack Linden Office Hours]]

Jack Linden Office Hour Transcripts

2009-04-23T20:22:01Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: Removing all content from page

Category:Jack Linden Office Hours

2009-04-23T20:21:18Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: New page: Transcripts of Jack Linden's office hours. Collected by various users.

Transcripts of Jack Linden's office hours. Collected by various users.

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-03-12

2009-04-23T20:20:40Z

Elanthius Flagstaff:

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-03-05

2009-04-23T20:20:33Z

Elanthius Flagstaff:

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-02-26

2009-04-23T20:20:25Z

Elanthius Flagstaff:

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-02-19

2009-04-23T20:20:17Z

Elanthius Flagstaff:

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-02-12

2009-04-23T20:20:09Z

Elanthius Flagstaff:

User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2009-01-15

2009-04-23T20:19:59Z

Elanthius Flagstaff: