Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2013-07-11

[2013/07/11 14:59]  Yuzuru Jewell: Hello, Maestro.
[2013/07/11 15:00]  Maestro Linden: Hi guys
[2013/07/11 15:00]  Whirly Fizzle: Heya Maestro
[2013/07/11 15:01]  Maestro Linden: hm, I get some funky geometry rendering glitches when I zoom my camera in and out, in this area
[2013/07/11 15:02]  Whirly Fizzle: Oh me too. Yp in the sky a bit?
[2013/07/11 15:02]  Whirly Fizzle: *up
[2013/07/11 15:02]  Maestro Linden: yeah, it goes down to..
[2013/07/11 15:02]  Maestro Linden: Whirly or Nal?
[2013/07/11 15:02]  Maestro Linden: yeah, right in front of Nal
[2013/07/11 15:02]  Whirly Fizzle: Hmm lemme change incase its me
[2013/07/11 15:03]  Nalates Urriah: What are you looking at? I see the bag on the ground do some odd things but that's it.
[2013/07/11 15:03]  Maestro Linden: it's around your skirt, nal
[2013/07/11 15:03]  Whirly Fizzle: Nopes not me. Im mesh free now
[2013/07/11 15:03]  Maestro Linden: but only gets glitchy when I zoom the camera in and out
[2013/07/11 15:03]  Maestro Linden: okay
[2013/07/11 15:03]  Maestro Linden: maybe there's some corruption in my viewer session
[2013/07/11 15:03]  Whirly Fizzle: Does VBO off stop it?
[2013/07/11 15:04]  Whirly Fizzle: Yeah it does
[2013/07/11 15:04]  Whirly Fizzle: Its that mesh
[2013/07/11 15:04]  Maestro Linden: Yes
[2013/07/11 15:04]  Maestro Linden: VBO off = okay
[2013/07/11 15:04]  Maestro Linden: I'm running MacOS 10.6, which has super outdated drivers
[2013/07/11 15:04]  Whirly Fizzle: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-29396 (Mesh clothing bursts into a cloud of triangles on LOD switch )
[2013/07/11 15:05]  Maestro Linden: Cool
[2013/07/11 15:05]  Maestro Linden: I've seen something similar in the past, where part of coyot's avatar (he was sitting nearby) appeared to be rigged to mine :O
[2013/07/11 15:05]  Yuzuru Jewell: I saw it frequently.
[2013/07/11 15:05]  Nalates Urriah: Whirly knows all... :)
[2013/07/11 15:05]  Maestro Linden: Okay, time to actually get started
[2013/07/11 15:05]  Whirly Fizzle: Oh yeah, Ive seen that. Seems to sometimes happen when mesh fails to load properly. Seems to happen most often for Mac with intel cards
[2013/07/11 15:06]  Maestro Linden: /me nods
[2013/07/11 15:06]  Maestro Linden: Here's the agenda; http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Agenda
[2013/07/11 15:06]  Maestro Linden: Mostly I just have news about updates
[2013/07/11 15:07]  Maestro Linden: So last week, we didn't have any rolls, but this week we got a few new projects
[2013/07/11 15:07]  Whirly Fizzle: Its nals skirt btw lol. I just derendered the skiry only & it stopped glitching
[2013/07/11 15:08]  Nalates Urriah: This is a pretty simple skirt...
[2013/07/11 15:08]  Maestro Linden: I wonder if one of the LoDs is disliked by my viewer
[2013/07/11 15:08]  Maestro Linden: so the SLS channel got the server maintenance project that was previously on all 3 channels
[2013/07/11 15:09]  Maestro Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/13#13.06.21.277682
[2013/07/11 15:09]  Whirly Fizzle: it happens on any mesh with only 1 material
[2013/07/11 15:09]  Maestro Linden: that release just has some fairly minor bug fixes
[2013/07/11 15:09]  Nalates Urriah: This one has LOD's all the same except last, 4th. which is just a vertex count reduction.
[2013/07/11 15:10]  Nalates Urriah: It has only 1 material
[2013/07/11 15:10]  Maestro Linden: we have 3 new projects in RC, which we haven't had for a while
[2013/07/11 15:11]  Maestro Linden: BlueSteel just got another 'experience tools' update, which still isn't visible aside from how it's used in Linden Realms
[2013/07/11 15:11]  Maestro Linden: there's not much to talk about there yet..
[2013/07/11 15:12]  Maestro Linden: Magnum has some pathfinding-related fixes
[2013/07/11 15:12]  Maestro Linden: including one for the case we mentioned at the last meeting, where some regions get stuck in a rebaking loop
[2013/07/11 15:13]  Maestro Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/13#13.07.08.278357
[2013/07/11 15:13]  Maestro Linden: Oh, there's a crash fix too, which I forgot to mention in the release notes
[2013/07/11 15:14]  Maestro Linden: LeTigre has the one 'hot' release
[2013/07/11 15:14]  Jonathan Yap: Is the crash fix the one that music venue owners have been hoping for?
[2013/07/11 15:14]  Maestro Linden: which is the long-awaited server-side appearance project: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_LeTigre/13#13.07.03.278295
[2013/07/11 15:15]  Maestro Linden: Probably not, Jonathan.. this crash mode wasn't too common
[2013/07/11 15:16]  Maestro Linden: the server-side appearance project changes how avatar rebaking happens, among other things
[2013/07/11 15:16]  Maestro Linden: instead of having the viewer bake textures from various clothing layers and upload them, there's a central service which does it now
[2013/07/11 15:16]  Rex Cronon: if u guys keep fixing all these crashing mode than pretty soon all those "sim crashers" on MP that cost around 10000 L$ will be useless:)
[2013/07/11 15:17]  Rex Cronon: modes*
[2013/07/11 15:17]  Maestro Linden: I won't be shedding any tears, Rex :)
[2013/07/11 15:17]  Jenna Felton: are that sim crashers actuallly allowed at all?
[2013/07/11 15:17]  Lucia Nightfire: heh, theres still plenty of crash modes left, and many that can't be fixed w/o imparing resource usage to a degree, lol
[2013/07/11 15:18]  Maestro Linden: I'm almost certain they're not allowed, Jenna. Such items should probably be flagged in the marketplace
[2013/07/11 15:18]  Whirly Fizzle: They do get flagged but they never get removed
[2013/07/11 15:18]  Lucia Nightfire: they sell them in-world and through groups for free too, heh
[2013/07/11 15:19]  Nalates Urriah: There has been some near riots in other meetings about those items not being removed from the MP.
[2013/07/11 15:19]  Lucia Nightfire: I know of one "creator" that makes his living off crashers
[2013/07/11 15:19]  VoidPointer Linden: /me sighs
[2013/07/11 15:19]  Lucia Nightfire: I've AR'd him with the necessary info too, but governance does it own thing
[2013/07/11 15:20]  Maestro Linden: brb, need to grab a power adapter..
[2013/07/11 15:20]  Whirly Fizzle: This is nothing new. Region & viewer crashers have never been removed off Markeplace :/
[2013/07/11 15:20]  Lucia Nightfire: nor copybotted wares, lol
[2013/07/11 15:20]  Whirly Fizzle: heh yeah
[2013/07/11 15:20]  Lucia Nightfire: I have to post them on slu in hopes something is done, but that is fruitless as well
[2013/07/11 15:21]  Jenna Felton: /me sights
[2013/07/11 15:21]  Rex Cronon: i wonder can u get a refund from MP(like from ebay), becouse people will certainly want their money back when those things stop working:)
[2013/07/11 15:22]  Whirly Fizzle: They shouldn't have bought them in the 1st place
[2013/07/11 15:22]  Lucia Nightfire: yeah, good luck asking support for your money back when your crasher stops working as advertised, lol
[2013/07/11 15:22]  Whirly Fizzle: hehe
[2013/07/11 15:22]  Lucia Nightfire: plus, many are scam listings too
[2013/07/11 15:23]  Lucia Nightfire: sim crasher is actually a wooden box
[2013/07/11 15:23]  Whirly Fizzle: Yeah, empty boxes for 10k. Those don't get removed either......
[2013/07/11 15:23]  Lucia Nightfire: SL was made for scams
[2013/07/11 15:23]  Rex Cronon: i should put for sale on april 1st a "grid crasher" for one million;)
[2013/07/11 15:23]  Nalates Urriah: Well the empty box crashers are sort of an ironic justic.
[2013/07/11 15:23]  Jenna Felton: dont think you get your money back in RL if your car is not allowed suddently to move near your home
[2013/07/11 15:23]  Nalates Urriah: justice^
[2013/07/11 15:24]  Maestro Linden: I know that some of you have been trying out the new appearance system on LeTigre
[2013/07/11 15:24]  Nalates Urriah: Yep
[2013/07/11 15:25]  Maestro Linden: how's it working?
[2013/07/11 15:25]  Rex Cronon: is it working ok? no hiccups?
[2013/07/11 15:25]  Maestro Linden: I saw some people claim that their FPS was lower in a region with SSA, but they were a little short on details
[2013/07/11 15:25]  Whirly Fizzle: Yeah, really good. I think this is the smoothest rollout of a big new shiny ever! No one is screaming!
[2013/07/11 15:26]  Nalates Urriah: Pretty well. It is faster. Shapes rez really fast. Then clothes (system) show up quickly 5 to 15 seconds.
[2013/07/11 15:26]  Maestro Linden: Yes, I was expecting more screaming actually :)
[2013/07/11 15:26]  Lucia Nightfire: I hate appearance mode so I haven't a clue about it.
[2013/07/11 15:26]  Whirly Fizzle: Cant we have the sky falling just a little bit? Its tradition!
[2013/07/11 15:26]  Jenna Felton: i hope very little people stayed on a non-SSA viewer
[2013/07/11 15:26]  Jonathan Yap: What about all the Phoenix users--have most of them changed over?
[2013/07/11 15:26]  Lucia Nightfire: I know Toy hasn't, lol
[2013/07/11 15:27]  Whirly Fizzle: Phoe minutes are down to 4% now. massive drop.
[2013/07/11 15:27]  Nalates Urriah: Walking frmo SSA enabled to disabled seems to cayse some crashes. But, I can't consistantly reproduce it.
[2013/07/11 15:27]  Lucia Nightfire: and I haven't for my IP handler acct
[2013/07/11 15:27]  Maestro Linden: (for context, if your viewer is too old, you will no longer be able to see avatar textures in SSA regions)
[2013/07/11 15:27]  Jonathan Yap: and will be a cloud to everyone, right?
[2013/07/11 15:27]  Jenna Felton: and appear gray yourself?
[2013/07/11 15:27]  Lucia Nightfire: I see grey people
[2013/07/11 15:28]  Lucia Nightfire: with attachments at least
[2013/07/11 15:28]  Nalates Urriah: I've seen some people in Le Tigre that never rendered. I assume they are using an old viewer.
[2013/07/11 15:28]  Maestro Linden: Let's see, there was a blog post: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/It-s-Time-to-Update-Your-Viewer/ba-p/2067673
[2013/07/11 15:28]  Whirly Fizzle: No actually, the behaviour changed there in an unexpected way. Not sure why. people on SSA viewrs used to see people on non SSA viewers as a cloud. But this doesn't seem to be happening on LeTigre
[2013/07/11 15:28]  Lucia Nightfire: one funny thing I noticed is if you wear 50% gray textured skin, you appear invisible to SSA viewers
[2013/07/11 15:29]  Nalates Urriah: !?!
[2013/07/11 15:29]  VoidPointer Linden: o.O
[2013/07/11 15:29]  Jenna Felton: thats odd
[2013/07/11 15:29]  Lucia Nightfire: it was a gag I was doing and noticed the anomoly
[2013/07/11 15:29]  Rex Cronon: that is cool. a new way to become invisible. don't fix it:)
[2013/07/11 15:29]  Jonathan Yap: what if the percentage is 70, 80 etc?
[2013/07/11 15:29]  Whirly Fizzle: Whats happening is, if an avi enters a LeTigre on a non SSA viewer you will see them in their correct bake yntul they change. You won't see their changes though, they stay stuck in thewir old bake. I don't really understand why thats happening.
[2013/07/11 15:30]  Maestro Linden: Hm, that blog doesn't detail exactly how it breaks if you're using an old viewer
[2013/07/11 15:30]  Lucia Nightfire: idk, I was just using the same color as the unloaded texture color
[2013/07/11 15:30]  Jenna Felton: would be interesting to appear as a ghost without wearing an meshed avatar body
[2013/07/11 15:31]  Rex Cronon: the text above your head still shows. right?
[2013/07/11 15:31]  Object: Touched.
[2013/07/11 15:31]  Lucia Nightfire: yes, tags still htere
[2013/07/11 15:31]  Maestro Linden: I think that's due to 'Deprecated and removed the ability of connected viewers to upload baked textures via the UploadBakedTexture capability and via AssetUploadRequest.', whirly.. and it probably sticks to the old appearance if the new one didn't apply
[2013/07/11 15:31]  Lucia Nightfire: and prim attachments
[2013/07/11 15:31]  Whirly Fizzle: But then if the avi on a non SSA viewer on LeTigre TPs to main channel & changes outfit & TPs back to LeTigre, you will see then again in their new bake... Which isn't what Id expect.
[2013/07/11 15:31]  Maestro Linden: Nyx would know better, though..
[2013/07/11 15:31]  Whirly Fizzle: It didn't used to be that way
[2013/07/11 15:32]  Whirly Fizzle: But I didn't poke it much cos it will all be moot when SSA is grid wide anyway
[2013/07/11 15:33]  Nalates Urriah: Is server load on SSA system what was expected?
[2013/07/11 15:34]  Lucia Nightfire: its probably lite compared to what it will be when its hit MC
[2013/07/11 15:34]  Maestro Linden: So the actual texture baking on the server happens on a different server than the sim host
[2013/07/11 15:35]  Nalates Urriah: I understand it is a central system with caching.
[2013/07/11 15:35]  Maestro Linden: But I've heard that the service is running just fine (granted, LeTigre is only a small fraction of the grid..)
[2013/07/11 15:36]  Whirly Fizzle: How long does an SSA region keep your bakes in its cache?
[2013/07/11 15:36]  Maestro Linden: We really need to summon Nyx for these questions
[2013/07/11 15:37]  Nalates Urriah: We can cathc Nyx Monday
[2013/07/11 15:37]  Maestro Linden: He's in a different meeting now, unfortunately
[2013/07/11 15:37]  Maestro Linden: okay
[2013/07/11 15:37]  Nalates Urriah: catch^
[2013/07/11 15:38]  Sigma Avro: sorry jonathan
[2013/07/11 15:38]  Jonathan Yap: ?
[2013/07/11 15:38]  Sigma Avro: sat on u
[2013/07/11 15:38]  Nalates Urriah: I've been noticing that textures often don't download during rollouts. Does the rollout throw a load on the inventory and asset systems? Or what might be happening?
[2013/07/11 15:40]  Maestro Linden: Hi Nal, yes a roll does increase asset server load
[2013/07/11 15:41]  Nalates Urriah: Does it take some time for the system to recover after the rollout? Is the all-clear given at the end of the actual roll or when things stabilize?
[2013/07/11 15:41]  Maestro Linden: Mostly because regions start on new hosts, so the local sim cache of assets (e.g. texture assets that viewers request) need to be fetched again. The effect isn't too huge, though
[2013/07/11 15:42]  Maestro Linden: Things stabilize pretty quickly thereafter
[2013/07/11 15:42]  Maestro Linden: after the roll, I mean
[2013/07/11 15:42]  Nalates Urriah: Thx
[2013/07/11 15:44]  Maestro Linden: I don't have much other news.. we do have another server maintenance project wrapping up, which may enter RC next week (depending on channel contention)
[2013/07/11 15:44]  Maestro Linden: it has several crash fixes, and also fixes for issues such as...
[2013/07/11 15:44]  Maestro Linden: BUG-2931 'run_time_permissions no longer triggers in attachments after requesting 0 permissions'
[2013/07/11 15:45]  Maestro Linden: and BUG-969 'teleporting breaks collision detection state for volumedetect objects'
[2013/07/11 15:45]  Lucia Nightfire: time for my weekly mention that SEC-1204 is still an issue, heh
[2013/07/11 15:46]  Maestro Linden: and an additional fix for characters with CHARACTER_STAY_WITHIN_PARCEL=TRUE
[2013/07/11 15:46]  Lucia Nightfire: also, can we do something about VWR-11778 as I've been dealing with that alot recently from scammers, spammers and griefers....
[2013/07/11 15:47]  Maestro Linden: For that last issue, it happens that if the character has CHARACTER_STAY_WITHIN_PARCEL=TRUE and somehow exits the parcel (like if it was pushed out), it will get stuck. Instead, it should reenter its home parcel and continue wandering..
[2013/07/11 15:48]  Jonathan Yap: Ever since PF was released I will find my wandering character is stopped with no error message sent
[2013/07/11 15:48]  Jonathan Yap: It hasn't been so bad since stay_within came out
[2013/07/11 15:49]  VoidPointer Linden: that's a good thing :)
[2013/07/11 15:49]  Maestro Linden: hm, what's the nuance between VWR-11778 and STORM-956? does -956 not cover group invite dialogs?
[2013/07/11 15:49]  Nalates Urriah: I put a 'last event' log in my character for debugging. On command it prints it out to chat.
[2013/07/11 15:49]  Lucia Nightfire: these are group invites sent by agents or bots
[2013/07/11 15:50]  Lucia Nightfire: muting them does nothing
[2013/07/11 15:50]  Lucia Nightfire: invites still go through
[2013/07/11 15:50]  Maestro Linden: and -956 just covers llDialog() messages?
[2013/07/11 15:50]  Lucia Nightfire: that seems to be scripted dialogs
[2013/07/11 15:50]  VoidPointer Linden: are the unblockable group invites a new thing, Lucia or has it been around for a while?
[2013/07/11 15:51]  Lucia Nightfire: seems its been an issue for awhile
[2013/07/11 15:51]  Maestro Linden: /me wonders what 'ImageID LLUUID' in ScriptDialog was supposed to be used for
[2013/07/11 15:51]  Rex Cronon: an icon
[2013/07/11 15:51]  Rex Cronon: ?
[2013/07/11 15:51]  Jonathan Yap: yes, small icon
[2013/07/11 15:51]  Jonathan Yap: associated with the group
[2013/07/11 15:52]  Lucia Nightfire: I would ask that something be done about these ad agencies taht collect names and offer to spam advertisements for clients that rent their bots but I figure that would take a miracle there
[2013/07/11 15:52]  Whirly Fizzle: Gah those are a pain.
[2013/07/11 15:52]  Rex Cronon: can u feed them linden names:)
[2013/07/11 15:53]  Lucia Nightfire: so I'm just asking that muting a bot can block their group invite spam
[2013/07/11 15:53]  Lucia Nightfire: as it blocks their inventory offers at least
[2013/07/11 15:53]  Object: Hello, Avatar!
[2013/07/11 15:54]  Sigma Avro: this base script is a huge spamer
[2013/07/11 15:54]  Jonathan Yap: so the trouble is that someone you have muted sends out a group invite that you receive?
[2013/07/11 15:54]  Whirly Fizzle: Yep
[2013/07/11 15:54]  Maestro Linden: Hey guys, Log here is an SSA expert
[2013/07/11 15:54]  Jonathan Yap: does the group invite packet from the server have their uuid in it?
[2013/07/11 15:54]  VoidPointer Linden: but only if they send it via script?
[2013/07/11 15:54]  Jonathan Yap: you can't send a group invite via script
[2013/07/11 15:55]  Jonathan Yap: only manually (or via a bot)
[2013/07/11 15:55]  Maestro Linden: not LSL scripts.. only via scrtipted viewers
[2013/07/11 15:55]  Rex Cronon: how may people would like to send group invites using lsl...
[2013/07/11 15:55]  Lucia Nightfire: don't even
[2013/07/11 15:55]  Jonathan Yap: many venues have a bot that sends out an invite when you arrive
[2013/07/11 15:55]  Maestro Linden: how many people would like to receive group invites from LSL scripts? :)
[2013/07/11 15:56]  Maestro Linden: Log, Whirly had this question earlier: How long does an SSA region keep your bakes in its cache?
[2013/07/11 15:56]  Rex Cronon: i would. if i am in the same sim and if i have checkbox:)
[2013/07/11 15:56]  Whirly Fizzle: Can I ask quickly before times up - are there any instructions for how to use the new experience tools viewer? I hunted but can't find anything & release notes are blank. I got as far as getting an experience added to the experience floater but now Im stuck heh
[2013/07/11 15:56]  Yuzuru Jewell: When SSA start all SIMs, will temp upload be stopped?
[2013/07/11 15:56]  Lucia Nightfire: ugh, I think group invites need to be made by real people, preferably ones that have piof, heh
[2013/07/11 15:56]  Log Linden: The bakes aren't per region, they're grid wide
[2013/07/11 15:57]  Whirly Fizzle: ahhh
[2013/07/11 15:57]  Jonathan Yap: I will look into blocking group invites--if the person sending it is in the packet from the server then blocking it will be easy
[2013/07/11 15:58]  Lucia Nightfire: the sender shows up in teh invite dialog, so I would hope it does, lol
[2013/07/11 15:58]  Maestro Linden: I don't believe there are any instructions for the experience tools viewer, yet. As far as I know, that viewer is in an early unfinished state, Whirly
[2013/07/11 15:58]  Object: huh 
[2013/07/11 15:58]  Nalates Urriah: Log, does the SSA system keep the bake cached until one changes appearance or does it eventually time out?
[2013/07/11 15:58]  Whirly Fizzle: ahh okay ty. It was released y'day heh
[2013/07/11 15:58]  Maestro Linden: Jonathan, group invites are just another type of IM, right?
[2013/07/11 15:58]  Maestro Linden: maybe muting enforcement could occur upstream for any IM type?
[2013/07/11 15:58]  Log Linden: So if you go somewhere else then switch to an outfit you were wearing before, the same bake as before will be restored from cache. The amount of time it is stored is based on how often the baked texture is requested.
[2013/07/11 15:59]  Jonathan Yap: Maestro, the muting would be done in the viewer where that packet type is decoded
[2013/07/11 15:59]  Nalates Urriah: Whirly Hitomi told me a few minutes ago it was private again...
[2013/07/11 15:59]  Maestro Linden: Yes, that's what I was thinking
[2013/07/11 15:59]  Whirly Fizzle: Oh! Peeks
[2013/07/11 15:59]  Whirly Fizzle: Oh yeah, it poofed
[2013/07/11 15:59]  Log Linden: So it may very well keep it even after you switch to something else.
[2013/07/11 16:00]  Whirly Fizzle: Ahh ty Log
[2013/07/11 16:00]  Nalates Urriah: So, if I wear an outfit, it bakes. If I put it on again after a weak of wearing different outfits the previous bake of the outfit is reused?
[2013/07/11 16:01]  Log Linden: It's possible, but not very likely after a week.
[2013/07/11 16:01]  Whirly Fizzle: Unless its a popular sold outfit & a few people are wearing it daily?
[2013/07/11 16:01]  Nalates Urriah: ok, thx.
[2013/07/11 16:01]  Maestro Linden: Okay, we're out of time
[2013/07/11 16:01]  Log Linden: Eventually it will get cleared out to make room for other outfits that people are atually wearing.
[2013/07/11 16:01]  Maestro Linden: At least I am (have another meeting now..)
[2013/07/11 16:01]  Log Linden: *actually
[2013/07/11 16:01]  Kallista Destiny: whirly it's have to be a complete Avatar
[2013/07/11 16:02]  Nalates Urriah: Thx Maestro
[2013/07/11 16:02]  Maestro Linden: Thanks for coming, everybody!
[2013/07/11 16:02]  Whirly Fizzle: The bakes arnt avatar dependent are they? If the avatar textures match exactly with another avatars I mean
[2013/07/11 16:02]  Yuzuru Jewell: Thank you, Maestro and Log.
[2013/07/11 16:02]  Rex Cronon: tc everybody and have a nice day:)
[2013/07/11 16:02]  Maestro Linden: You too!
[2013/07/11 16:02]  VoidPointer Linden: bye everyone - have a great week