This meeting was held on February 25th, 2010

Agenda

Discuss resolution of previous open items.
Updates
- 1.36.4 is coming soon.
  - SVC-4632 - "People getting past Estate and Land bans"
    - https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4632
  - SVC-5420 - "output to DEBUG_CHANNEL with llSay /me format has been changed and broke content."
    - https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5420
- 1.38 is about to branch.
- Are Pilot Rolls effective?
  - https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Agni_Pilot_Regions
- Thou must not fail critical objects
  - https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Aditi/ThouMustNotFail
- Updating the critical items to test page.
- Havok 7 testing is on the calendar (scheduled for Server 1.40, that could mean May)
Releases
- https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Beta_Server/1.36
Any other business
- goes here
- should MoaP be disabled on worn & physical objects (not including HUDS)

Resolved Items

Meeting Minutes

read below. :-p

Transcript

Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for February 25th, 2010:

[15:00] Lil Linden: how is everyone?
[15:00] Ima Mechanique: hi Psi
[15:00] Effy Khandr: good good ty, you Lil? :)
[15:01] Psi Merlin: Hi Oskar, Lil and the beta group.
[15:01] Lil Linden: muy bien! :)
[15:01] Effy Khandr: :)
[15:01] Charlene Trudeau: hiya, Oskar, Hiya, Lil
[15:01] Oskar Linden: ok let's get this party started
[15:01] Oskar Linden: welcome one and all to the greatest OH on this grid
[15:02] Oskar Linden: ... the only OH on this grid
[15:02] Sebastean Steamweaver: Hehe
[15:02] Oskar Linden: it's really awesome seeing so many people here
[15:02] Ceawlin Steamweaver: Wewt
[15:02] Oskar Linden: it's enough to warm a lindens heart
[15:02] Oskar Linden: and I'm sure you know how cold our hearts are
[15:02] Sebastean Steamweaver: Indeed.
[15:02] IzzieBellah Hinterland: up front i'd like to know who sees me normal, who sees me as afreak, and who sees me as a puff of smoke.
[15:03] Oskar Linden: or so I have gathered from reading forums *sniff*
[15:03] Hypatia Callisto: hello Matthorn
[15:03] Ceawlin Steamweaver: Hey Zwag!
[15:03] Hypatia Callisto: in my lap probably isnt where you want to be :P
[15:03] Zwagoth Klaar: :D
[15:03] Effy Khandr: awww
[15:03] Sebastean Steamweaver: I usually enjoy it when people sit in my lap. I get to cuddle them :D They usually run away afterwards....
[15:03] Oskar Linden: here is the agenda: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta_Server_Office_Hours#Agenda
[15:03] Drew Dwi: we should put the agenda on... a MoaP!
[15:03] Oskar Linden: no one has added anything to any other business
[15:03] Oskar Linden: good call drew
[15:04] Oskar Linden: I would have to install vwr which has been giving me issues
[15:04] Oskar Linden: vwr2 I meant
[15:04] Oskar Linden: I have it on my other machine
[15:04] Oskar Linden: bug tester is using it
[15:04] Oskar Linden: I'll bring him over
[15:05] IzzieBellah Hinterland: veiwer 2 stole my avatar
[15:05] Drew Dwi: there it goes
[15:05] Drew Dwi: hmm lets see if it'll zoom nicer
[15:05] Angela Talamasca: back. sorry i'm late
[15:05] Oskar Linden: hey angela
[15:06] Angela Talamasca: hi oskar. thanks for getting me back on this grid. :-)
[15:06] Matthorn Avro: my beta money says loading
[15:06] Oskar Linden: np angela
[15:06] ATechwolf Foxclaw: Hi all from a text only client.
[15:06] Drew Dwi: didn't figure the Bug Tester client would actually be a giant bug
[15:06] Oskar Linden: if anyone knows someone who wants to be on aditi for beta testing they can IM me on AGNI
[15:06] Oskar Linden: ok
[15:07] Angela Talamasca: i show now L$ at all in my beta viewer
[15:07] Lil Linden: Matthorn: we'll get a new version of SL Server out on aditi today that should fix that
[15:07] Oskar Linden: so. on to the agenda. don't forget to update it if you have something to talk about
[15:07] Melfina Marshdevil: what version is going on aditi?
[15:07] Oskar Linden: let's talk abut server 1.36.4
[15:07] Lil Linden: 1.36.4, and soon 1.38
[15:07] Oskar Linden: it is imminent
[15:07] Melfina Marshdevil: kk
[15:07] Sebastean Steamweaver: 1.38 :D
[15:07] Oskar Linden: 1.36.4 is coming hopefully later today
[15:07] Sebastean Steamweaver: Magical number for me.
[15:07] Oskar Linden: and shipping next week
[15:07] Matthorn Avro: why not goto server 2.0 to match viewer :)
[15:08] Drew Dwi: release notes?
[15:08] Lil Linden: imminent :)
[15:08] Oskar Linden: actually this helps matthorn
[15:08] Drew Dwi: :P
[15:08] Oskar Linden: very easy to tell the diff between server and vwr now
[15:08] Oskar Linden: sometimes it was hard
[15:08] Oskar Linden: "hi I have a problem in 1.21"
[15:08] Oskar Linden: "uhh viewer or server?"
[15:08] Matthorn Avro: add an S
[15:09] Sebastean Steamweaver: Oskar, could I get a link for the release notes of 1.36.4?
[15:09] Sebastean Steamweaver: The link on the agenda page apparently doesn't lead to it.
[15:09] Oskar Linden: this will be the release notes seb: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Beta_Server/1.36
[15:09] Oskar Linden: when lil updates them
[15:09] Oskar Linden: the agenda links the two bugs fixed
[15:09] Oskar Linden: SVC-4632 and SVC-5420
[15:09] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5420:
[#SVC-5420] to DEBUG_CHANNEL: with llSay /me format has been changed and broke content.
[15:09] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4632:
[#SVC-4632] getting past: Estate and Land bans
[15:09] Drew Dwi: \o/ for estate ban fix
[15:10] Oskar Linden: I'll see what notes I can update for the estate ban fix
[15:10] Melfina Marshdevil: about time the estate bans work again
[15:10] Charlene Trudeau: no kidding lol
[15:10] Oskar Linden: it was a funky issue with some weird http timeout glitches
[15:10] ATechwolf Foxclaw: How was they getting past that?
[15:10] Ima Mechanique: nice turn around on the DEBUG Channel
[15:10] Oskar Linden: the debug channel was important to me
[15:10] Oskar Linden: I pushed to get that in
[15:10] Ima Mechanique: lol
[15:11] Oskar Linden: andrew knockled out a fix yesterday
[15:11] Angela Talamasca: nice
[15:11] Sebastean Steamweaver: Oskar - I don't suppose there's a chance of allowing scripts to listen to the DEBUG channel is there? Last I checked, it didn't work.
[15:11] Oskar Linden: if we didn't get it in yesterday it would have been broken til 1.38
[15:11] Ima Mechanique: knockjled, that's a new word to me ;-)
[15:11] Oskar Linden: I can't speak to upcoming plans seb because I don't know
[15:11] Gearsawe Stonecutter: I tried on the current version of the live grid and it worked
[15:11] Oskar Linden: probably a ways out if it is
[15:11] Angela Talamasca: knockled, a cross between knocked & nuckle. lol
[15:11] Oskar Linden: I type fast
[15:12] Oskar Linden: and this isn't my usual keyboard
[15:12] Melfina Marshdevil: scripts have always been able to listen on the debug channel
[15:12] Oskar Linden: I have become far too accustomed to apple's new thin keyboards
[15:12] Ima Mechanique: Seb, scripts can listen to DEBUG_CHANNEL
[15:12] Drew Dwi: mm the bluetooth one?
[15:12] Sebastean Steamweaver: Ah, they must have fixed that then.
[15:12] Oskar Linden: now that I am on a big clicky dell it seems too hard
[15:12] Oskar Linden: not the bt one drew
[15:12] Ceawlin Steamweaver: I bet you use a Model M. ;P
[15:13] ATechwolf Foxclaw: Scripts can listen to debug and replace scripts taht crashed for whatever reason.
[15:13] Oskar Linden: wait. scripts cant listen to debug?
[15:13] Sebastean Steamweaver: Ima says that they can now. There was a point where it didn't work for some reason.
[15:13] Gearsawe Stonecutter: last I check it worked
[15:13] Oskar Linden: so what happened with SVC-5420 was good and bad
[15:13] Sebastean Steamweaver: From that point, I simply assumed they couldn't.
[15:13] Ima Mechanique: Onlything a script can't listen to is itself
[15:13] Oskar Linden: a newer developer added a bit of verbosity to the debug channel
[15:13] Sebastean Steamweaver: nods
[15:13] Oskar Linden: not realizing how its used in practice
[15:14] Oskar Linden: put an llsay at the front so you know where it was speaking from
[15:14] Drew Dwi: holy script error spam
[15:14] Oskar Linden: we've got a new rule in place for the next few months for the engineering team
[15:14] Oskar Linden: "DO NOT TOUCH LSL"
[15:14] Angela Talamasca: lol
[15:14] Melfina Marshdevil: heh
[15:14] Oskar Linden: until we can overhaul the whole system
[15:14] Sebastean Steamweaver: D:
[15:14] Melfina Marshdevil: o.o
[15:14] Oskar Linden: and possibly get versioning in place
[15:15] Ceawlin Steamweaver: lol
[15:15] Drew Dwi: that on the roadmap for after havok update?
[15:15] Oskar Linden: there are just too many critical edge cases
[15:15] Oskar Linden: it's to the point where we can't fix legit bugs in LSL because too many important scripts utilize the broken behaviour
[15:15] Ceawlin Steamweaver: That's not gonna set back Babbage's 1.38 goodness, is it? D:=
[15:15] Ima Mechanique: ahhhhh, versioning....
[15:15] Oskar Linden: babbages 1.38 goodness is frozen already
[15:15] Sebastean Steamweaver: My thoughts exactly Ceawlin
[15:15] Ceawlin Steamweaver: Ah, excellent. :d
[15:15] Oskar Linden: I don't know of a specific versioning plan yet so don't quote me
[15:16] Oskar Linden: but there has been talk
[15:16] Oskar Linden: kelly is fixing the last of the 1.38 bugs
[15:16] Oskar Linden: although we had to push back release by a week
[15:16] Oskar Linden: I think it will be worth it
[15:16] Oskar Linden: especially since the mono rezzing sim hanger will be in there
[15:17] Oskar Linden: or the fix for said hanger
[15:17] Ima Mechanique: full or partial?
[15:17] Oskar Linden: partial. or so I am told
[15:17] Oskar Linden: it's quite a complex issue apparently
[15:17] Melfina Marshdevil: I think its like 90% fixed so I heard
[15:17] Oskar Linden: and we've fixed all we can
[15:17] Oskar Linden: yeah
[15:17] Oskar Linden: will guard the other 10% with a shotguin
[15:17] Ima Mechanique: 990% will be good
[15:17] Oskar Linden: -i
[15:17] Oskar Linden: 990%?
[15:17] Oskar Linden: that's a lot
[15:17] Ima Mechanique: ooops
[15:17] Charlene Trudeau: lol
[15:18] Sebastean Steamweaver: Shotguin! I read that with a western accent :P
[15:18] Ima Mechanique: don't like this viewer2
[15:18] Oskar Linden: ok so that is 1.36.4
[15:18] Oskar Linden: we're not gonna be talking about vwr 2 in this meeting :-)
[15:18] Sebastean Steamweaver: Oskar, when will we be able to test "Babbage's Goodness" on aditi?
[15:18] Oskar Linden: there are plenty of other places for that
[15:18] Oskar Linden: but I do encourage all of you to try it and give feedback
[15:18] Oskar Linden: positive or negative
[15:18] Melfina Marshdevil: Q Lindens meeting was funny
[15:18] Charlene Trudeau: Oskar just doesn't want to get me started :)
[15:19] Oskar Linden: probably after next weeks meeting seb
[15:19] Sebastean Steamweaver: Oh hi Charlene :) I didn't see you there.
[15:19] Ceawlin Steamweaver: \o/
[15:19] Oskar Linden: you are right charlene
[15:19] Charlene Trudeau: hiya, Seb :)
[15:19] Charlene Trudeau: winks at Oskar
[15:19] Oskar Linden: but I do want you to get started in a channel where people are paying attention to you
[15:19] Charlene Trudeau: don't worry, I'm all over the Jira instead :)
[15:19] Oskar Linden: as I will not ;-)
[15:19] Charlene Trudeau: nods, happy to go to any meetings I can :)
[15:19] Oskar Linden: speaking of 1.38
[15:20] Oskar Linden: like I said we are waiting on one fix from kelly
[15:20] Melfina Marshdevil: it hits aditi..... ?
[15:20] Oskar Linden: that gets tested
[15:20] Oskar Linden: and gets to aditi after 1.36.4 hits the grid next week
[15:20] Ima Mechanique: any release notes for .38 yet?
[15:20] Oskar Linden: quietly interjects that it is his birthday this weekend
[15:20] Melfina Marshdevil: WOOT
[15:20] Oskar Linden: we'll do the release notes once we get it out to aditi
[15:20] Sebastean Steamweaver: Happy Older-Day!
[15:20] Melfina Marshdevil: Happy Birthday!
[15:20] Drew Dwi: so no emergency rollbacks this allowed?
[15:20] Oskar Linden: we can't easily do release notes before it branches
[15:21] Ima Mechanique: happy "'nuther nail in the coffin day"
[15:21] Ceawlin Steamweaver: I know what I'll give Oskar for his b-day: a hard time! :P
[15:21] Charlene Trudeau: is it still possible to have one of my estate regions on teh pilot rolls for server release?
[15:21] Ceawlin Steamweaver: starts working up good trollings for AWG chat.
[15:21] Oskar Linden: technically will not age this year, but that is a limitation of our calendar system and how it tracks that one extra day in 4 years we get
[15:21] Angela Talamasca: lolol
[15:21] Melfina Marshdevil: haha
[15:21] Oskar Linden: charlene, yes it is
[15:22] Oskar Linden: we will be speaking of pilot rolls soon
[15:22] Charlene Trudeau: hushes
[15:22] Sebastean Steamweaver: Just like the guy from the Pirates of Penzance :P
[15:22] Sebastean Steamweaver: "But reckoning by my natal day... I am a little boy of Five!"
[15:22] RedMokum Bravin: Hmmm Gilbert & Sullivan. :-)
[15:22] Oskar Linden: is a few leap years older than 5, but doesn't look it
[15:23] Sebastean Steamweaver: loves Gilbert & Sullivan.
[15:23] Oskar Linden: so I can hopefully offer more info on 1.38 next week
[15:23] Oskar Linden: 1.38 is basically all about babbage and kelly
[15:23] Sebastean Steamweaver: That makes me feel wonderful.
[15:23] Oskar Linden: and a few linden homes tweaks?
[15:23] Oskar Linden: so who has a linden home yet?
[15:23] Oskar Linden: my alt has a cute little a-frame in aspen
[15:24] Ima Mechanique: nope, was expecting an email to tell me to apply, but it hasn't arrived
[15:24] Angela Talamasca: i have a hobbit house facing the back of the elderglen tavern.
[15:24] Oskar Linden: not to get off topic, but linden homes has been pretty successful so far and I kind of like it myself
[15:24] Sebastean Steamweaver: I have a castle on a secluded beach.
[15:24] Angela Talamasca: have heard the linden homes are already sold out
[15:24] Oskar Linden: yeah
[15:24] Oskar Linden: demand went nuts
[15:24] Effy Khandr: won't get one :(
[15:24] Ima Mechanique: every sim I visited was a nightmare of server lag
[15:24] Angela Talamasca: that's gotta be a good sign
[15:25] RedMokum Bravin: Sorry but Elderglen, cute as I find it, felt crowded already during the preview period, without inhabitants.
[15:25] Gearsawe Stonecutter: likes to build homes
[15:25] Oskar Linden: I picked the tall a-frame model and built in a second floor
[15:25] Angela Talamasca: lol
[15:25] Charlene Trudeau: Is it, Angela? how many are like mine? I have it tfor the sake of having it, but empty
[15:25] Angela Talamasca: smart idea oskar
[15:25] Oskar Linden: it's definitely not for everyone, but for the people that it is for it's fun
[15:25] Charlene Trudeau: I expect I'll abandon it in fairly short order
[15:26] Oskar Linden: was thinking of adding an oil refinery to the side of the building to go with his steampunk fantasies
[15:26] RedMokum Bravin: I hope they'll soon discover the faery areas in Winterfell :-p
[15:26] Angela Talamasca: it sold out yesterday after the prim perfect show about the homes
[15:26] Sebastean Steamweaver: cheers for steampunk.
[15:26] Oskar Linden: it'll be cool when the full house UI things are in place
[15:26] Angela Talamasca: am looking forward to that
[15:26] Oskar Linden: anyway... I let things get off topic
[15:26] Angela Talamasca: yeah
[15:26] Oskar Linden: so let's talk about pilot rolls
[15:26] Sebastean Steamweaver: Yes, back to you being older than 5...
[15:27] Oskar Linden: I started a thread internally on the effectiveness of pilot rolls
[15:27] Oskar Linden: we had a situation last week with the emergency rollback that could have been avoided had it been noticed on a pilot region
[15:27] RedMokum Bravin: yeap
[15:27] Oskar Linden: this also goes back to the topic I mentioned last week of critical objects on agni that should never break
[15:27] Oskar Linden: but lets talk about pilot regions first
[15:28] Gearsawe Stonecutter: will try to do more testing here
[15:28] Oskar Linden: I would encourage anyone who has a full region on AGNI to join the pilot roll: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Agni_Pilot_Regions
[15:28] Melfina Marshdevil: we need more pilot regions on the list also I added a request to get my sandbox region added on there
[15:28] Oskar Linden: it's pretty easy to get yourself added to that list
[15:28] Charlene Trudeau: that's the one I want too, my sandbox list
[15:28] Melfina Marshdevil: well the talk page has a list of open requests
[15:29] Oskar Linden: the rough plan we have now is to roll to linden regions first. that way only we have to suffer if something goes horribly wrong
[15:29] Oskar Linden: ok melfina. I'll get on that
[15:29] RedMokum Bravin: I can see disrupted races at the Blake Sea :-p
[15:29] Oskar Linden: then we will roll to that list
[15:29] Sebastean Steamweaver: "We just.... deleted our own accounts..."
[15:29] Oskar Linden: and hopefully to a random percentage between 5-10% of all regions
[15:29] Melfina Marshdevil: haha
[15:30] Melfina Marshdevil: good one seb
[15:30] Angela Talamasca: that makes some sense. how long btwn that roll out and the pilot roll out?
[15:30] Oskar Linden: a few hours at most angela
[15:30] Angela Talamasca: also, how many ppl are on the linden regions at a time?
[15:30] Oskar Linden: well at the times we do them... a lot
[15:30] ATechwolf Foxclaw: Can you have a list of NOT on pilot for very active sim that can't affored to have a unschedule restart in the middle of an event.
[15:30] ATechwolf Foxclaw: ?
[15:30] Angela Talamasca: oh, good!
[15:30] Oskar Linden: wednesday morning meetings :-D
[15:31] Sebastean Steamweaver: Some-what related topic, how long do you expect 1.38 to be on Aditi before it's rolled out to Agni?
[15:31] Oskar Linden: M likes nothing more than seeing "This region is going down in 5 minutes"
[15:31] Melfina Marshdevil: heh
[15:31] Angela Talamasca: lol, i'll bet!
[15:31] Oskar Linden: Seb. less than a month
[15:31] Lil Linden: has gotten some "excited" pings about that during RR's
[15:31] Sebastean Steamweaver: will have his work cut out for him.
[15:31] Oskar Linden: lil works from his closet on those mornings
[15:31] Sebastean Steamweaver: doesn't mind that at all.
[15:31] Oskar Linden: makes him harder to find
[15:32] Oskar Linden: or strangle
[15:32] Melfina Marshdevil: lol
[15:32] Lil Linden: :)
[15:32] Melfina Marshdevil: poor lil
[15:32] Oskar Linden: actually it's not a closet
[15:32] Oskar Linden: it's a comfy couch
[15:32] Sebastean Steamweaver: Slippery Lil devil :P
[15:32] Oskar Linden: with an even comfier cat
[15:32] Hypatia Callisto: cats make it all worthwhile :P
[15:32] RedMokum Bravin: oh... not a technified loo :-)
[15:32] Oskar Linden: he may or may not have a breakfast burrito
[15:33] Oskar Linden: so if anyone has ideas for regions that should always be on the pilot roll let me know
[15:33] Sebastean Steamweaver: Cats do make good warmers, as long as you keep their dander down.
[15:33] Oskar Linden: you can send a note to me on agni
[15:33] Drew Dwi: Bug Island!
[15:33] Matthorn Avro: are the combat regions on the roll out?
[15:33] Oskar Linden: bug island should for sure
[15:33] Psi Merlin: smiles. Snark was a 'zero day' pilot for the mono launch on agni - before the pilot list even existed.
[15:33] Oskar Linden: I can add the combat regions
[15:33] Drew Dwi: Crash Me ? :)
[15:33] Matthorn Avro: Combat (sandbox) Rausch
[15:33] Oskar Linden: no more cash me on agni
[15:34] Sebastean Steamweaver: Oskar, I'll be getting our region on the list also.
[15:34] Drew Dwi: any paticular reason why?
[15:34] Oskar Linden: crash me on agni was too tempting and support didn't perceive it as testing and would nuke accounts
[15:34] Sebastean Steamweaver: Someone needs to wake up first though :P
[15:34] Melfina Marshdevil: really o.o?
[15:34] Drew Dwi: lol
[15:34] Psi Merlin: It's have a few extra restarts bing a pilot but no real issues - join in if you can.
[15:34] Oskar Linden: for the benefit of people helping me out I closed it on agni
[15:34] Oskar Linden: and need to bring it back up on here
[15:34] Oskar Linden: this is where that kind of testing should take palce
[15:34] Matthorn Avro: is it here?
[15:34] Oskar Linden: supports hammer is pretty wide when it comes to crashing
[15:35] Oskar Linden: it is here, but not up
[15:35] Oskar Linden: looks at lil
[15:35] Melfina Marshdevil: what does support do with ARs on aditi tho?
[15:35] Oskar Linden: puts Crash Me on lil's list of regions to bring up
[15:35] Oskar Linden: ;-)
[15:35] Sebastean Steamweaver: Lil has been very quiet. Except for the random smilies.
[15:35] Matthorn Avro: Sandbox - Weapons testing
[15:35] Oskar Linden: support never touches ADITI
[15:35] Oskar Linden: this is my baby
[15:35] Melfina Marshdevil: hehe
[15:35] Angela Talamasca: yeah, aditi is testing and ppl can do what they want. :-)
[15:35] Oskar Linden: so as long as you make me happy you can do whatever you want here
[15:36] RedMokum Bravin: They didn't even tell me how to reconnect to Aditi for that matter. Glad you did.
[15:36] Sebastean Steamweaver: Oskar, what kind of donuts do you like?
[15:36] Matthorn Avro: when was the last refresh for inventory?
[15:36] Melfina Marshdevil: inventory is processed manually by oskar here.
[15:36] Melfina Marshdevil: there is no refreshs anymore
[15:36] Ima Mechanique: one prim ata tme
[15:36] Matthorn Avro: :(
[15:36] Angela Talamasca: ah, ok. that's why i could no longer log in
[15:36] Oskar Linden: but I am protective. if it comes to my attention that people are testing exploits here and using them on AGNI and have no intention of filing jiras for said issues I will not let those people back into ADITI
[15:37] Oskar Linden: Melfina I am working on an automated way to transfer inventories
[15:37] Angela Talamasca: well, now that i can get here again, will tet the jira's for the targeted releases. :-)
[15:37] Angela Talamasca: *test
[15:37] Drew Dwi: Land Buying / Selling?
[15:37] Angela Talamasca: lol
[15:37] Matthorn Avro: that would be god
[15:37] Oskar Linden: it'll most likely be a kiosk on morris that people can click to copy over inv
[15:37] Matthorn Avro: good
[15:37] Melfina Marshdevil: ohhh thats neat oskar
[15:37] Oskar Linden: but I'll still hold the keys for new accounts getting on
[15:38] Oskar Linden: land buying and selling should be working again
[15:38] Sebastean Steamweaver: I can hear them jingling in your pocket.
[15:38] Melfina Marshdevil: Ohhh I heard your running out of land on aditi. Can I make a suggestion?
[15:38] Matthorn Avro: the problem is trying to remember passwords
[15:38] Oskar Linden: sure melfina
[15:39] Melfina Marshdevil: If I get a region on here I would keep it active with open land for anyone to use when needed basicly I'd sell the land for free and reclaim after its used
[15:39] Angela Talamasca: gonna start calling this Oskar's world. ^_~
[15:39] Oskar Linden: heh
[15:39] Melfina Marshdevil: if you wanna go thought with that :P
[15:39] Melfina Marshdevil: though*
[15:39] Oskar Linden: do you have a region here melfina?
[15:39] Charlene Trudeau: oh, if that's needed then every parcel around my sandbox can be sold off that way too, except Lares'
[15:39] Melfina Marshdevil: I want one :3
[15:39] Melfina Marshdevil: I asked :3
[15:39] Oskar Linden: ok. I'll see what I can do
[15:40] Angela Talamasca: oh, oh, i want one!
[15:40] Charlene Trudeau: I didn't know that would be helpful
[15:40] Matthorn Avro: be nice to test estate tools
[15:40] Oskar Linden: if you want to take over management of public land buying and selling I can probably get you a region and let you manage it
[15:40] Charlene Trudeau: Oskar, could I add a second?
[15:40] Oskar Linden: a second what?
[15:40] Ima Mechanique: how's my request coming Oskar? ;-)
[15:40] Charlene Trudeau: I've used it to give good scripters em status her eto test things
[15:40] Charlene Trudeau: second region
[15:40] Drew Dwi: I'd be up for helping with that if you add me as an EM
[15:40] Melfina Marshdevil: Yes personally I would love to be able to do that oskar and I would grant EM to people who need it
[15:40] Angela Talamasca: sure
[15:41] Charlene Trudeau: skybeam is up, but if you need land to sell to peeps, I have more that could be dup'd
[15:41] Angela Talamasca: speaking of estates, did the ban prob get fixed?
[15:41] Oskar Linden: Charlene see 1.36.4 ;-)
[15:41] Charlene Trudeau: next release a partial fix is going in, Angela
[15:41] Melfina Marshdevil: ban said it got fixed in the new server
[15:41] Angela Talamasca: oh, good
[15:41] Oskar Linden: angela must have stepped out for coffee at the start of this meeting
[15:42] Angela Talamasca: was getting a sammich
[15:42] Angela Talamasca: took longer than i planned
[15:43] Sebastean Steamweaver: Sammiches are complex pieces of art.
[15:43] Oskar Linden: what kind of sammich and where is mine?
[15:43] Charlene Trudeau: that didn't make sense to me, Oskar, but I"ll ask privately later :)
[15:43] Oskar Linden: makes a mean sandwich
[15:43] Angela Talamasca: ham+pastrami+guacamole+provolone
[15:43] Angela Talamasca: lolol
[15:43] Melfina Marshdevil: o.o
[15:43] Oskar Linden: ok charlene
[15:43] Angela Talamasca: lolol
[15:44] ATechwolf Foxclaw: Oh, has teh land butying been fixed? Vector gave me estate on a regine, but I could get anyone else on there for testing. The blockers was I needed to buy land on it to get parcell powers.
[15:44] ATechwolf Foxclaw: could not that is
[15:44] Tyken Hightower: oh emm gee
[15:44] Effy Khandr: gave you Party Tray Roast Beef Sandwich ~ Depoz Catering.
[15:44] Effy Khandr: ;)
[15:44] Oskar Linden: i'll see what I can do for setting up special regions for buying/selling tests
[15:44] Oskar Linden: eyes Lusk
[15:45] Zwagoth Klaar: You can't buy land on aditi because the helpers url points to a private ip range. That was what I thought.
[15:45] Oskar Linden: I think we have that fixed Zwag
[15:45] Oskar Linden: oh wow I just saw that fisher linden is here
[15:46] Oskar Linden: hi fisher
[15:46] Oskar Linden: everyone say hi
[15:46] Melfina Marshdevil: hi fisher :D
[15:46] Hypatia Callisto: hi Fisher :)
[15:46] Angela Talamasca: hi fisher
[15:46] Zwagoth Klaar: Hey Fisher
[15:46] Angela Talamasca: lol
[15:46] Ima Mechanique: hi Fisher
[15:46] Ceawlin Steamweaver: Howdy. :P
[15:46] Tyken Hightower: Hello!
[15:46] Effy Khandr: heya Fisher
[15:46] Melfina Marshdevil: Everyone hug him also :P
[15:46] Sebastean Steamweaver: Fisher missed the party
[15:46] RedMokum Bravin: eheh hello Fisher
[15:46] Psi Merlin: Hi Fisher
[15:46] Drew Dwi: he's probably afk too
[15:46] Oskar Linden: next to me, milo, vektor, and maestro, fisher is the hardest working member of the serverqa team
[15:46] Fisher Linden: Hey
[15:46] Melfina Marshdevil: make him feel "at home"
[15:46] Oskar Linden: ;-)
[15:46] Drew Dwi: ah life ^^
[15:46] Fisher Linden: lol
[15:46] Fisher Linden: I sense Oskar causing trouble, again
[15:46] Oskar Linden: always is
[15:47] Oskar Linden: seriously though, fisher is a rock star
[15:47] Fisher Linden: Oh....
[15:47] Fisher Linden: .me blushes
[15:47] Sebastean Steamweaver: He is? Lil is the one wearing bling D:
[15:47] Oskar Linden: i'm not kidding. he's in a band
[15:47] Fisher Linden: thanks, Oskar (the true rock star!)
[15:47] Oskar Linden: anyway... back to the agenda
[15:47] Lil Linden: (he plays the french horn)
[15:47] Oskar Linden: where was I
[15:47] Lil Linden: :P
[15:48] Melfina Marshdevil: moving on to objects that cant fail?
[15:48] Oskar Linden: ah yes the crit list
[15:48] Oskar Linden: I made this page: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Aditi/ThouMustNotFail
[15:48] Oskar Linden: and would encourage you all to flesh it out
[15:48] Oskar Linden: I'm looking for specific objects
[15:49] Oskar Linden: this goes back to the issue that server qa cannot test everything resident made
[15:49] Sebastean Steamweaver: adds flight feathers.
[15:49] Oskar Linden: but we would really like to be able to test what you think are the most important items
[15:49] Ovaltine Constantine: "Posjump things " is in the list. Does that means Posjump wont be going away
[15:49] Draconis Neurocam: i still think its more an issue of lsl being fully documented rather than objects breaking
[15:49] Oskar Linden: ok seb
[15:49] Oskar Linden: posjump will not be going away until we have somethng to replace it with
[15:49] Oskar Linden: it's more than that draconis
[15:50] Charlene Trudeau: coughs over specific product vs general category being named lol
[15:50] Ima Mechanique: Sebastean, why flight feathers?
[15:50] Sebastean Steamweaver: there is a viable suggestion for a replacement up, by the way, in MISC-3077
[15:50] Charlene Trudeau: oh, hey Drac :)
[15:50] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-3077:
[#MISC-3077] List of: Linden-Confirmed Easy Changes/Additions With Large Returns
[15:50] Angela Talamasca: vendors and related servers are a must
[15:50] Draconis Neurocam: hey char
[15:50] Oskar Linden: LSL has an infinite amount of ways to be used incorrectly
[15:50] Sebastean Steamweaver: Ima: because I remember what happened to them during Havok4 testing ;)
[15:50] Ovaltine Constantine: Even if there is something to replace posjump with, I have to actually replace it in anything I made that uses it
[15:50] Fisher Linden: Infinite is probably an understatement too!
[15:51] Sebastean Steamweaver: (PRIM_REGION_POS is the suggestion I'm referring to btw)
[15:51] Oskar Linden: once an item gets to be critically used, even if it is built on a flawed bug, we can't easily fix that issue without breaking the riginal object and killing in world systems. we want to avoid that as much of possible, or at least know ahead of time if we are
[15:51] Oskar Linden: I know ovaltine
[15:52] Oskar Linden: the vendor issue from last week is a great point
[15:52] Oskar Linden: we tested all the LSL positive cases
[15:52] Oskar Linden: we just didn't know how many systems had flawed LSL logic that was going to break by us fixing LSL
[15:52] Melfina Marshdevil: adding objects to this list. How will you lindens know what objects to look at?
[15:52] Oskar Linden: I'll take the objects from this list and create a region with them enabled for testing and add to our internal smoke test
[15:53] Oskar Linden: it's one more step for us, but I think it will be valuable
[15:53] Melfina Marshdevil: sounds good
[15:53] Angela Talamasca: i would look at various widely used objects.
[15:53] Oskar Linden: the analogy I use is a canary in a coal mine
[15:53] Oskar Linden: this is why I am asking for your help polishing this list
[15:53] Melfina Marshdevil: yeah a few of us can go around and look at really widely used things and add them on
[15:54] Angela Talamasca: so you have vendors (both hippo & xstreet), also many of the boats are using original boat scripts, etc.
[15:54] Oskar Linden: I do a lot in SL, but you guys are spread wider and I greatly value your input and experience
[15:54] ATechwolf Foxclaw: One that i'me thinking of can be updated. Try to find popular objects that can not be upgraded. The hippo I think was a good one. i've seen a few other freebire venders that are not upgradabe.
[15:54] Oskar Linden: I will be starting a discussion internally as well.
[15:54] Angela Talamasca: yes, i agree. objects that can't easily be updated.
[15:54] Melfina Marshdevil: well A few server based objects that cant fail. metalife things also.
[15:55] Oskar Linden: so auto updater objects
[15:55] Melfina Marshdevil: also things that deal with large amounts of money
[15:55] Drew Dwi: rental stuff, common vehicles?
[15:55] Oskar Linden: I'll take a look at the wiki page in a few days and see what you guys have done. then I'll look to gather the objects and set them up for testing
[15:56] ATechwolf Foxclaw: I wold thnk spificiec brandname or name would be usefull.
[15:56] Jonathan Yap: Can anyone think of huds?
[15:56] Melfina Marshdevil: I'm going to open a discussion page and list what to look for and then people can add object names
[15:56] Melfina Marshdevil: yes huds also
[15:56] Oskar Linden: it would atechwolf
[15:56] Sebastean Steamweaver: gave you Flight Feather HUD.
[15:56] Angela Talamasca: one thing i would consider doing is to provide a list of the types of bugs you are targeting. for example, if you're targeting a memory leak in the way sensor works. that would help to drill down into potential affected objects.
[15:57] ATechwolf Foxclaw: There is one popular HUD, mystictool. However, a lot would LOVE it if that HUD was broken.
[15:57] Charlene Trudeau: roflmao
[15:57] Angela Talamasca: lolol
[15:57] Gearsawe Stonecutter: lol
[15:57] Angela Talamasca: so true!
[15:57] Melfina Marshdevil: wow
[15:57] Melfina Marshdevil: soo bad :3
[15:57] Sebastean Steamweaver: XD
[15:57] Charlene Trudeau: I want to replace mine with way stripped down tools
[15:57] Angela Talamasca: sorry to the creator. it is just extremely laggy
[15:58] Sebastean Steamweaver: There are alternatives out there which don't cause nearly so much load on the server.
[15:58] Charlene Trudeau: I don't understand why we have to have a flight assist tool anyway
[15:58] Oskar Linden: and 2 mintues to talk about moap on physical prims
[15:58] Ima Mechanique: hopefully scripting memory limits will help fix that
[15:58] Melfina Marshdevil: script limits will be fun I cannot wait to see that
[15:58] Charlene Trudeau: just let us fly to 4096 ;P
[15:58] Fisher Linden: hmmm...moap
[15:58] Sebastean Steamweaver: Yes Charlene, I'm all for it.
[15:58] Oskar Linden: (I am jumping over havok 7 because there is nothing new to report and you will be the first to know)
[15:58] Angela Talamasca: lol, no kidding! i
[15:58] Drew Dwi: there is a JIRA on this somewhere
[15:58] Drew Dwi: I just couldn't find it
[15:59] Drew Dwi: but just think... moap pop gun + griefer >.>
[15:59] Charlene Trudeau: moap
[15:59] Charlene Trudeau: listens
[15:59] Sebastean Steamweaver: Break all the flight feathers, as long as you do it by not making them required :P
[15:59] Oskar Linden: there has been a lot of discusssion internally on physical objects and attached objects and moap
[15:59] Oskar Linden: and we're leaving it enabled for the time being
[15:59] Angela Talamasca: yeah, def physic objects as a mistep in those can crash a server
[15:59] Oskar Linden: we think there are enough valid cases that outweigh the risks
[15:59] Oskar Linden: but we're watching the issue
[15:59] Sebastean Steamweaver: For those of us not quite so familiar with it, what's the brief 401 on Moap?
[16:00] Drew Dwi: media on a prim
[16:00] Sebastean Steamweaver: Ahh
[16:00] Sebastean Steamweaver: I'm already going around with media disabled until I find something I want to turn on, unfortunately.
[16:00] Melfina Marshdevil: yeah >_>
[16:00] Jonathan Yap: I heard yesterday you can only see N number of active feeds at once--I think N=6
[16:00] Drew Dwi: yea, but newbies won't
[16:01] Sebastean Steamweaver: There's no way I'm trusting people not to have a webpage set to something with a virus or malware on it.
[16:01] Oskar Linden: I kinda like the idea someone conceived of about wearing a prim on your face that streamed from a web cam
[16:01] Drew Dwi: hah thats clever
[16:01] Tyken Hightower: :D
[16:01] Charlene Trudeau: lol
[16:01] Oskar Linden: with the right type of camera setup and sculpt it might look cool
[16:01] Charlene Trudeau: noooo, I like my illusions :)
[16:01] Melfina Marshdevil: not only that I have seen cases where you can confirm who your alts are using IP tracking
[16:01] Drew Dwi: I think the abuse is more prone to come from physical objects than worn ones
[16:01] Angela Talamasca: yeah, dusan calls moap SLSM. i like his acronym choice. sounds less moappy
[16:01] Oskar Linden: in a lawnmoer man sort of way
[16:01] Melfina Marshdevil: Geo IP tracking acually
[16:02] Oskar Linden: well look at that. one more OH under my belt
[16:02] Fisher Linden: lol
[16:02] Oskar Linden: I'll message the group on AGNI when 1.36.4 goes live out here
[16:02] Jonathan Yap: Will someone post the log to the wiki? I got here late
[16:02] Oskar Linden: oh yeah
[16:02] Oskar Linden: every time Jonathan
[16:02] Oskar Linden: oh, also I made a change to the group on AGNI
[16:03] Oskar Linden: I officially claimed it as a server qa group
[16:03] Oskar Linden: it was a little loosely defined before
[16:03] Oskar Linden: now it is clear
[16:03] Oskar Linden: and it's my group. muahahahahahaa
[16:03] Oskar Linden: vwr qa has their own group
[16:03] Melfina Marshdevil: Of course it is :P
[16:03] Drew Dwi: talking about the BSI group?
[16:03] Fisher Linden: You did that same laugh when you said that internally too.
[16:03] Oskar Linden: I need to tahnk all of you for coming
[16:03] Fisher Linden: hmmm..
[16:03] Effy Khandr: and I see only you talking..noone else :)
[16:03] Oskar Linden: BSI is different
[16:03] Sebastean Steamweaver: No, Second Life Beta
[16:03] Oskar Linden: I did fisher
[16:04] Oskar Linden: and if you were in the seattle office you would have heard it
[16:04] Melfina Marshdevil: heh
[16:04] Fisher Linden: lol...I think that I did down in SF!
[16:04] Sebastean Steamweaver: He's dominating a grid, and getting away with it!
[16:04] Lil Linden: needs to run
[16:04] Lil Linden: see you all later :)
[16:04] Sebastean Steamweaver: And he even has his own group of minions: us :P
[16:04] Fisher Linden: See ya Lil!
[16:04] Angela Talamasca: lol, yeah, we heard t all the way down here
[16:04] Melfina Marshdevil: bye now lil
[16:04] Drew Dwi: cya
[16:04] Angela Talamasca: lol
[16:04] RedMokum Bravin: ciao
[16:04] Lares Carter: bye Lil
[16:04] Effy Khandr: byebye Lil :)
[16:04] Sebastean Steamweaver: Bye Lil
[16:04] Hypatia Callisto: have fun :)
[16:05] Hypatia Callisto: is off to wander
[16:05] Melfina Marshdevil: lol if oskar could he would take a webcam and broadcast that laugh to all the screens in LL
[16:05] Sebastean Steamweaver: That would be disconcerting for many people who thought they were alone.
[16:05] Oskar Linden: thanks again for stopping by everyone
[16:05] Oskar Linden: it's great to see you guys every week
[16:05] Angela Talamasca: when i was working on my crime scene build, which was closed to the public, i heard an evil woman laugh
[16:06] Lares Carter: thanks for your time Oskar :)
[16:06] Angela Talamasca: was creepy
[16:06] Melfina Marshdevil: I try and make it as much as possible oskar :P
[16:06] Sebastean Steamweaver: Later Oskar
[16:06] Drew Dwi: take care all
[16:06] Oskar Linden: l8r)

Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2010-02-25

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