This meeting was held on July 15th, 2010

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Meeting Minutes

Transcript

Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for July 15th, 2010:

[15:00] Oskar Lindenri: Ashton: hey oskar
[15:00] SHAMUS Carter: hi oskar
[15:00] Chaos Borkotron: hey
[15:00] Jack Abraham: Hi Oskar.
[15:00] Lares Carter: heya Oskar
[15:00] SHAMUS Carter: yes it's hard to transcribe voice
[15:01] Chaos Borkotron: a leak?
[15:01] xstorm Radek: Oskar there seems to be a real data buffer leak
[15:01] Moon Metty: Oskar, this place is a mess!
[15:01] xstorm Radek: i will send you the screen shot
[15:01] Moon Metty: i love it
[15:01] Psi Merlin: Hi Oskar
[15:01] Oskar Linden: yeah who messed this palce up?
[15:01] SHAMUS Carter: leak?
[15:01] Moon Metty: :D
[15:01] !CN BIOEX: VALUE AO: Sit overrider: Off
[15:02] !CN BIOEX: VALUE AO: Sit overrider: On
[15:02] xstorm Radek: gave you Snapshot : Trendone City Mall, Trendone (75, 51, 45) - Moderate.
[15:02] Gooden Uggla: hola oskarito
[15:02] Oskar Linden: add the leak thing to the any other business section of the agenda and I'll get to it inline please
[15:02] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta_Server_Office_Hours
[15:02] xstorm Radek: in the pic lower right
[15:02] Gooden Uggla: hiya monty
[15:02] xstorm Radek: ok thank you
[15:03] Oskar Lindenri: Ashton: run people! he has a gun! pitchforks wont work this time!
[15:03] Oskar Lindenri's: translator:
[15:03] Oskar Lindenri: Ashton: lol
[15:03] Oskar Lindenri's: translator:
[15:03] xstorm Radek: i will do a jira when i find out more about it
[15:03] Techwolf Lupindo: Question: is the beta grid open to the public? Someone is having trouble loggin into here.
[15:03] Oskar Lindenri: Ashton: hey monty
[15:03] Oskar Linden: yes it is
[15:03] SHAMUS Carter: they need there acound mirrored
[15:03] Oskar Linden: and I know the accounts are not up to date
[15:03] SHAMUS Carter: they have not done a full mirro in ages
[15:04] Oskar Linden: that is why i said in the wiki that if people IM me I will give them access
[15:04] Monty Linden: hello youri
[15:04] Techwolf Lupindo: "Stickman Ingmann" is having trouble loggin in.
[15:04] Oskar Linden: we're never going to doa full mirror
[15:04] FireFox Bancroft: I had no problem getting in though I've been on here for eons hehe
[15:04] Oskar Linden: it's just too much
[15:04] Oskar Lindenri: Ashton pokes moon =)
[15:04] Moon Metty: Prospero was the last one to do a full DB refresh
[15:04] Oskar Linden: we talked about it last week though
[15:04] SHAMUS Carter: aww it's only 39 tp hehe
[15:04] Oskar Linden: it's huge
[15:04] Moon Metty: and the first one to fail, i think
[15:04] Moon Metty: hey Youri :)
[15:05] Oskar Linden: I didn't do a groups refresh for 2 weeks and it was 39,000 new groups
[15:05] reddot99 Republic: wow
[15:05] SHAMUS Carter: wow
[15:05] Oskar Linden: yeah
[15:05] Oskar Linden: I know
[15:05] Monty Linden: misses prospero but he cried a lot during deploys :-)
[15:05] Moon Metty: :)
[15:06] Oskar Linden: we have a cron job setup now to run nightly and update the differences
[15:06] SHAMUS Carter: so that invintory bug
[15:06] Oskar Linden: so let's get to the agenda
[15:06] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta_Server_Office_Hours
[15:06] Oskar Lindenri: Ashton: what about the new bug that traps people in sims?
[15:06] Oskar Linden: puts this train back on track
[15:06] Oskar Linden: gives moy some ritalin
[15:07] Oskar Linden: this has been a big week
[15:07] Oskar Linden: quite stressful here actually
[15:07] Moy Loon: I have enough titalout to counter it
[15:07] Moy Loon: Ritalout *
[15:07] Gooden Uggla: i wasn't aware that bug was new, that's happened in several forms over the last 2 years
[15:07] Simon Linden: fyi if you log into Morris/250/250/23 you end up trapped in the bright green hillside :)
[15:07] Oskar Lindenri: Ashton: tickes: Case: 00849231
[15:07] reddot99 Republic: hey simon
[15:07] Oskar Linden: so... 1.40.4
[15:07] Oskar Lindenri: Ashton: oh hi simon, didnt see you appear
[15:07] Moon Metty: hi Simon :)
[15:07] Simon Linden: I was hiding under the hill for a bit
[15:08] Oskar Linden: we have run a lot of tests and made a lot of tweaks this week and last
[15:08] Gooden Uggla: digs out simon
[15:08] Gooden Uggla: hiya
[15:08] Moon Metty: very clever
[15:08] Oskar Linden: we think we have most of the easily reproducible issues covered
[15:08] reddot99 Republic: i almost wonder if it took long enough to have time to merge in raycasting :p
[15:08] Oskar Linden: the issue that has been hounding us has been the extra lag on the combat sims
[15:09] Oskar Lindenri: Ashton: yo rex
[15:09] Rex Cronon: hi youri
[15:09] Oskar Lindenri: Ashton: hey ann
[15:09] Oskar Linden: when we look at simulator metrics for the grid as a whole SL performs better under 1.40
[15:09] Rex Cronon: hi everybody
[15:09] Base Diavolo: what kind of bullets are they using on the combat sims?
[15:09] Oskar Linden: unless you are on very specific sims
[15:09] reddot99 Republic: lol, i have 38 groups on beta grid
[15:09] Oskar Linden: then it is a LOT worse
[15:09] Ann Otoole: hi invisi peps
[15:09] FireFox Bancroft: lag bullets :)
[15:09] Rex Cronon: hi
[15:09] Gooden Uggla: hiya ann
[15:09] Moon Metty: hmmm
[15:09] Base Diavolo: physical objects or objects set to prperty rez?
[15:09] Oskar Linden: so we have been running some specific tests on agni regions live
[15:09] Base Diavolo: and are the bullets stereo or mono?
[15:10] Oskar Lindenri: Ashton: ask xstorm with what i hit him last time we were testing together =P
[15:10] FireFox Bancroft: usually weapons with large amount of scripts will do that
[15:10] Moon Metty: it's on damage enabled regions only?
[15:10] Oskar Linden: we can't replicate the situation here on ADITI
[15:10] Moundsa Mayo: Is it specific to simultor hardware, or any simulator hardware running specific region data?
[15:10] Rex Cronon: today we testing lag bullets?
[15:10] Oskar Lindenri: Ashton: poor xstorm kept crashing :p
[15:10] Kiosk -: LL Mainland Continents whispers: Thank you. Your own copy of this map kiosk will be delivered to you soon. Please use this instead of a texture as it automatically updates, with corrections or additions to the map.
[15:10] Kiosk -: LL Mainland Continents whispers: Thank you. Your own copy of this map kiosk will be delivered to you soon. Please use this instead of a texture as it automatically updates, with corrections or additions to the map.
[15:10] Base Diavolo: why not test an existing combat sim on Agni?
[15:10] reddot99 Republic: sure you can, just let us bring an entire group to aditi and do a couple battles
[15:10] Gooden Uggla: ummm oskar? this region now has enough people on it to lag it down :)
[15:10] Gooden Uggla: commence firing
[15:10] xstorm Radek: yes i think the last crash taken out Aditi sim
[15:11] Oskar Linden: so here's our plan
[15:11] Kiosk -: LL Mainland Continents whispers: Thank you. Your own copy of this map kiosk will be delivered to you soon. Please use this instead of a texture as it automatically updates, with corrections or additions to the map.
[15:11] Oskar Lindenri: Ashton: hey kelly =)
[15:11] Simon Kline: i'll go on blue team
[15:11] Kiosk -: LL Mainland Continents whispers: Thank you. Your own copy of this map kiosk will be delivered to you soon. Please use this instead of a texture as it automatically updates, with corrections or additions to the map.
[15:11] Gooden Uggla: goes with "skins"
[15:11] xstorm Radek: hi Kelly
[15:11] Oskar Linden: we are going to roll out 1.40.4 next week
[15:11] Oskar Linden: 20% pilot roll
[15:12] Oskar Linden: for 1 week
[15:12] Jack Abraham: applauds.
[15:12] SHAMUS Carter: so it will be a hecketic week in ll
[15:12] Oskar Linden: unless you are a region that was experiencing lag and we are going to keep you on 1.38
[15:12] Oskar Lindenri: Ashton: kelly, you look pretty manly today... lol
[15:12] Kiosk -: LL Mainland Continents whispers: Thank you. Your own copy of this map kiosk will be delivered to you soon. Please use this instead of a texture as it automatically updates, with corrections or additions to the map.
[15:12] Rex Cronon: u combine bullets, with megaprims, with vehicles, with spammers and u can replicate conditions on main grid
[15:12] Kelly Linden: my no-attachments-avatar
[15:12] Techwolf Lupindo: Can the combat sims get pre-rolled for this weekend to test that bug?
[15:12] Kelly Linden: it has lost some textures to history
[15:12] Oskar Linden: and we are going to continue to poke at the combat heavy sims
[15:13] Oskar Linden: and see if we can make them ebtter
[15:13] Oskar Lindenri: Ashton: no-attachements avi doesnt mean you have to be a man kally ;) hehe
[15:13] Oskar Linden: there are way too many conversations going on for me to follow them all
[15:13] Base Diavolo: in any standard combat sim on main land...i can safely assume that there are at least 4 varying script types for bullets being used as well as two types of physics..maybe even 3
[15:13] FireFox Bancroft: I want to comment on that Youri but I'll refrain from now
[15:13] Kelly Linden: I'm usually a man. except for that one time.
[15:13] Chaos Borkotron: I like my none-avatar
[15:13] XLR8RRICK Hudson: Lets give Oskar the floor
[15:13] Oskar Linden: I'd really like to keep things on track as opposed to having 10 things going on at once
[15:14] xstorm Radek: Oskar is there any way to limit Zero Prim Temp Rezzers down to say 100 prims ?
[15:14] Base Diavolo: thats just for scripts. bring in textures on bullets...glow, transparencies and megaprims and you got major draw issues
[15:14] SHAMUS Carter: er xstorm why?
[15:14] Oskar Linden: there are just too many questions that I don't have the answer to here
[15:14] reddot99 Republic: draw isnt doing anything to the server
[15:14] Moon Metty: 42
[15:14] Oskar Linden: so I am outlining our plan
[15:14] FireFox Bancroft: maybe not the server but it sure does do something to your video card
[15:14] Base Diavolo: what im pointing at is that until combat stuffs are regulated to the extreme..those sims are going to fluctuate too much
[15:14] Base Diavolo: plan
[15:15] Oskar Linden: we're rolling to 1.40.4 knowing it causes excess lag in some situations while giving those sim owners the opportunity to stay on 1.38 while we continue to poke at it
[15:15] Base Diavolo: 20% pilot roll for 1.4
[15:15] Oskar Linden: 1.40.4
[15:15] Oskar Linden: everyone calls it 1.4
[15:15] Oskar Linden: why is that?
[15:15] xstorm Radek: that sounds great
[15:15] Oskar Linden: I don't understand
[15:15] SHAMUS Carter: 14.
[15:15] Base Diavolo: do you call a ford a ford or a 5.0?
[15:15] Kitto Flora: Haha - 1.4 was in 2004
[15:15] Base Diavolo: >.>
[15:16] XLR8RRICK Hudson: one point four zero
[15:16] Rex Cronon: one extra o takes 2 long 2 type:)
[15:16] Base Diavolo: lol
[15:16] xstorm Radek: 1.4x
[15:16] SHAMUS Carter: 1.40 with the asset issues is 1.4 ;-)
[15:16] Kiosk -: LL Mainland Continents whispers: Thank you. Your own copy of this map kiosk will be delivered to you soon. Please use this instead of a texture as it automatically updates, with corrections or additions to the map.
[15:16] Oskar Linden: so the release version we are deploying next week is on ADITI now
[15:16] Base Diavolo: to be honest i didnt remember the rest after 4....and i was too lazy to scroll up
[15:16] Rex Cronon: in math 1.40==1.4
[15:17] Kiosk -: LL Mainland Continents whispers: Thank you. Your own copy of this map kiosk will be delivered to you soon. Please use this instead of a texture as it automatically updates, with corrections or additions to the map.
[15:17] Kiosk -: LL Mainland Continents whispers: Thank you. Your own copy of this map kiosk will be delivered to you soon. Please use this instead of a texture as it automatically updates, with corrections or additions to the map.
[15:17] Base Diavolo: ALL over Aditi or only in certain areas?
[15:17] Oskar Linden: I'm going to write up a set of things to look at here over the weekend for those interested in helping out
[15:17] Kitto Flora: its not math, its vertioning
[15:17] Oskar Linden: 1.40.4 had the previous fixes plus a fix from falcon for havok running out of memory
[15:18] Oskar Linden: some intermittent errors
[15:18] Oskar Linden: not sure if he put out release notes yet
[15:18] Oskar Linden: hmm
[15:18] Moon Metty: yeah, release notes
[15:18] Monty Linden: has a review task there
[15:18] Moon Metty: the most important part of any release
[15:18] SHAMUS Carter: verbos releas noats?
[15:18] Kiosk -: LL Mainland Continents whispers: Thank you. Your own copy of this map kiosk will be delivered to you soon. Please use this instead of a texture as it automatically updates, with corrections or additions to the map.
[15:18] Gooden Uggla: as of last night, release notes are unchanged
[15:18] Oskar Linden: I'll make sure the release notes get updated
[15:19] Oskar Linden: so right after this meeting I get back to agni and we start running a test
[15:20] Oskar Linden: simon you feel like outlining what we're trying to test?
[15:20] Base Diavolo: >.>
[15:20] Gooden Uggla: [1]
[15:20] Oskar Linden: or monty
[15:20] Oskar Linden: :-D
[15:20] Simon Linden: well, there's a change to 1.40 we're going to turn on and off to see what happens
[15:20] xstorm Radek: Oskar are rezzers still hitting the grey goo wall ?
[15:21] Rex Cronon: how is damage computed in 1.40? i am asking because it seems that big things damage u
[15:21] Oskar Linden: you tell me xstorm
[15:21] SHAMUS Carter: gray goo??
[15:21] Simon Linden: Currently, the simulator will process a message queue every frame ... it loops and emptys the queue, up to a message number limit
[15:21] Base Diavolo: lol
[15:21] xstorm Radek: well in trendone test sim yes to many rezzers at one time is
[15:21] Base Diavolo: <.<
[15:21] Simon Linden: ... regardless of time, which can be bad if some of the messages take a long time
[15:22] Moon Metty: what's in the queue?
[15:22] Simon Linden: The new (1.40) code added some time checks, so it wouldn't stall
[15:22] Kitto Flora: Yeah - what kind of messages?
[15:22] Simon Linden: These are messages ... lots of data, TP arrivals, etc
[15:22] Simon Linden: The TPs are obviously some of the ones that are slow
[15:22] Monty Linden: everything that comes in to the sim
[15:23] Kitto Flora: Into from outside? Like... cross-border chat messages?
[15:23] SHAMUS Carter: tps are so slow it's mesured in saeconds not ms
[15:23] Rex Cronon: there might be some problems if suddenly prims that didn't use to hurt u now they kill u
[15:23] Simon Linden: So the new code will not stall processing messages, but has some fallback behavior to prevent it from being over-run (overflowing the queue)
[15:23] Monty Linden: will probably have to deal with chat someday... for now, he's ignorant
[15:23] Simon Linden: We don't know if this is a problem or not, but we're running out of things to test
[15:24] Base Diavolo: how can a prim kill someone if it doesnt have damage set to it?
[15:24] reddot99 Republic: yes it can
[15:24] Rex Cronon: in havok7 it can
[15:24] Moon Metty: Simon, do you remember i gave you a test with objects crossing a sim border?
[15:24] Oskar Lindenri: Ashton: (simon, any progress on the info I gave during your and Andrew's OH?)
[15:24] Base Diavolo: by velocity? or touch alone?
[15:24] reddot99 Republic: in havok 4 it can kill just standing on a large prim and dragging
[15:24] Rex Cronon: so now all those training bullets killu
[15:24] reddot99 Republic: its by mass and velocity
[15:24] Base Diavolo: heh
[15:25] Jack Abraham: Physical collisions have always generated damage if damage is enabled. Falling hurts.
[15:25] reddot99 Republic: smallprims wont kill, giant ones will
[15:25] Rex Cronon: that is not true reddot99
[15:25] xstorm Radek: ? what about a test with 50 avatars with no scripts of any type and have them teleport in to a sim that way you get a clean test to base on ?
[15:25] reddot99 Republic: yes it is true
[15:25] Oskar Lindenri: Ashton: all prims kill when scripted correctly
[15:25] Rex Cronon: it never happened to me
[15:25] XLR8RRICK Hudson: running out of things to test cant be a good thing
[15:25] Base Diavolo: yeah but.....the damage has always been disproprtional....i fall from 1000 meters and bounce with 89 hp
[15:25] Simon Linden: Moon - yes, Youri, no
[15:25] Moon Metty: ok
[15:25] Rex Cronon: same bullets kill me here while on main they do no damage
[15:25] Base Diavolo: should go -splat!-
[15:25] Oskar Lindenri: Ashton: kk, thanks simon
[15:25] reddot99 Republic: i spend most of my day on a damage enabled sim, i've seen what does and doesnt kill
[15:26] Oskar Linden: well we seemed to have ruled out havok 7 for the lag issues though
[15:26] Oskar Linden: much to falcon's delight
[15:26] Jack Abraham: Yay!
[15:26] Oskar Lindenri: Ashton: oh simon, seems to be happening to islands as well, so not just around grasmere
[15:26] Simon Linden: I don't know the jira on that damage bug, but I think it wasn't reproducible. If anyone has more info, please add it
[15:26] reddot99 Republic: can i have that jira entry?
[15:26] Rex Cronon: well. i spend most on my time at rausch, and i do have a indea what kills and what doesn't
[15:26] xstorm Radek: :-) Havok is fun to work with
[15:27] reddot99 Republic: rex. i spend mine with organized combat
[15:27] FireFox Bancroft: anything involving physics is fun to work with
[15:27] Moon Metty: SVC-5965
[15:27] SHAMUS Carter: yes
[15:27] Issue Helper: [#SVC-5965
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/svc-5965
[15:27] SHAMUS Carter: havok is fun
[15:27] Base Diavolo: i made the most 'lag-free' bullet in SL. At least to MY standards.
[15:27] Rex Cronon: how many of u that r here have gone to rausch on this grid and tested combat?
[15:27] reddot99 Republic: shoot somebody with that on adamage sim, it'll kill them normally
[15:28] Rex Cronon: thanks
[15:28] FireFox Bancroft: as long as it's not rocket science
[15:28] Gooden Uggla: tell falcon that the new ultra-weapon for SL is dropping a piano out the window... he'll be pleased...
[15:28] Oskar Linden: huh?
[15:28] reddot99 Republic: and its not damage enabled but the impact kills
[15:28] xstorm Radek: ?
[15:28] Base Diavolo: <.<
[15:29] FireFox Bancroft: That actually sounds like fun Gooden
[15:29] Oskar Linden: so that's what we got
[15:29] Oskar Linden: now you know our conundrum
[15:29] Oskar Linden: and our plan
[15:29] Gooden Uggla: i know, i'm going to make a combat piano rezzer
[15:29] Gooden Uggla: :)
[15:29] Liisa Runo: last time i went to rauch in this grid (long time ago) i got killed and went in to the "home not found, cant TP home" -limbo. and had to use OS to kill the client to get out from the limbo
[15:29] Rex Cronon: no. use pizza slices:)
[15:30] reddot99 Republic: i've got exploding anvils already gooden
[15:30] Gooden Uggla: piano's in a trebuchet, maybe
[15:30] ANSI Soderstrom: o.O
[15:30] Kiosk -: LL Mainland Continents whispers: Thank you. Your own copy of this map kiosk will be delivered to you soon. Please use this instead of a texture as it automatically updates, with corrections or additions to the map.
[15:30] ANSI Soderstrom: please dont say this word
[15:30] Gooden Uggla: yup oskar, sounds like a good plan
[15:30] Oskar Linden: so tell you guys what. we have a lot of stuff to do this afternoon with our live tests. Let's cut this meeting of at 3:45
[15:30] Gooden Uggla: are we go9oing back to agni to test now?
[15:30] Oskar Linden: that'll give us 15 minutes to do some last minute prep time
[15:30] FireFox Bancroft: sure no prob
[15:30] Base Diavolo: sounds like a plan
[15:31] Oskar Linden: so 15 more minutes
[15:31] Kitto Flora: Wheres the test going to me on Agni?
[15:31] Oskar Linden: any other agenda items?
[15:31] reddot99 Republic: oskar, can i ask you something fairly quick?
[15:31] Oskar Linden: ok
[15:31] Oskar Linden: shoot reddot99
[15:31] Gooden Uggla: and anvils don't replace your tetth with piano keys for effect
[15:31] Gooden Uggla: teeth*
[15:31] FireFox Bancroft: I gotta get back to the daily grinda t 6:30 CST anywho
[15:31] reddot99 Republic: how's falcon doing with raycasting?
[15:31] Kiosk -: LL Mainland Continents whispers: Thank you. Your own copy of this map kiosk will be delivered to you soon. Please use this instead of a texture as it automatically updates, with corrections or additions to the map.
[15:31] Oskar Linden: it's on a back burner
[15:31] Oskar Linden: but it always has been
[15:31] Oskar Linden: he put it out here just to gauge thoughts
[15:31] Gooden Uggla: oskar has there been any discussion about mono upgrading?
[15:31] Oskar Linden: it'll get in when it can
[15:32] Oskar Linden: but not soon
[15:32] Oskar Linden: there will be more tests first
[15:32] Oskar Linden: I don't know where mono upgrading is now
[15:32] reddot99 Republic: i've got stuff ready for raycasting to be deployed
[15:32] Oskar Linden: oh. we're a ways away reddot99
[15:32] Gooden Uggla: bummer, that's the main problem still
[15:32] reddot99 Republic: aww
[15:32] reddot99 Republic: lol
[15:32] Kelly Linden: I give updates about mono update progress at my office hours gooden
[15:32] FireFox Bancroft: raycasting eh?
[15:32] Kelly Linden: it isn't in 1.40 or 1.42
[15:32] Oskar Linden: total wild guess... start of winter?
[15:32] Monty Linden: babbage is in Boston right now transferring knowledge... no promises though.
[15:32] FireFox Bancroft: building a railgun simulator?
[15:32] Oskar Linden: maybe fall
[15:33] Gooden Uggla: kelly, is that 9am fridays?
[15:33] Kelly Linden: mondays
[15:33] reddot99 Republic: no, raycasting only gathers data in the current setup
[15:33] Gooden Uggla: like i'm awake at 9...
[15:33] Oskar Linden: yeah. kelly is the man to talk to about mono
[15:33] Gooden Uggla: meh
[15:33] Kelly Linden: :D
[15:33] FireFox Bancroft: ah
[15:33] Oskar Linden: kelly is the man your man could smell like
[15:33] Kelly Linden: not quite that awesome.
[15:33] ANSI Soderstrom: yaay
[15:33] Oskar Linden: that is the biggest compliment I know how to give
[15:33] Ilana Debevec: Kelly when/where are your office hours?? (and transcripts???)
[15:33] Gooden Uggla: it was easier to stay awake till 3am to bug babbage
[15:33] xstorm Radek: lol
[15:33] Kelly Linden: 9am mondays.
[15:34] Draconis Neurocam: where at 9am mondays?
[15:34] Kelly Linden: I think I missed transcripts last week (sorry still getting into the swing of things) I'll get em rolling for next week though
[15:34] Simon Linden: I do know we want to upgrade mono to fix the lag-on-adding-scripts problem
[15:34] Lares Carter: there are transcripts available, Kelly?
[15:34] Liisa Runo: [2]
[15:34] Moon Metty: by threading?
[15:34] Kelly Linden: We are working on upgrading mono. It is on the schedule and being worked on.
[15:34] Gooden Uggla: ok, thanks
[15:34] Oskar Lindenri: Ashton: update for mono... nice
[15:34] Kelly Linden: no, the lag on adding scripts problem is a bug in mono.
[15:35] reddot99 Republic: is it the mono engine or the implementation?
[15:35] Kelly Linden: mono engine
[15:35] Oskar Lindenri: Ashton: oh if you can fix that problem, then please do
[15:35] Kelly Linden: long since fixed, but broken in 1.2.6 that we use
[15:35] Monty Linden: assembly loader
[15:35] Moon Metty: the problem is, the server runs on a single thread :)
[15:35] xstorm Radek: i hope mono is not broken
[15:35] Kelly Linden: moon in this case that isn't the problem
[15:35] reddot99 Republic: ah. so what's taken so long to fix it?
[15:36] Monty Linden: many of our problems are because the sim *doesn't* run on a single thread
[15:36] Kelly Linden: In 1.2.6 if you ask mono to load an assembly it already has loaded (common) it thinks about it for 20ms
[15:36] Moon Metty: oh lol ok
[15:36] Oskar Linden: things take long because we are human
[15:36] Oskar Linden: and only a few of us
[15:36] Jack Abraham: Kelly, once you get Mono updated this time, will that make it easier to update in the future?
[15:36] Kiosk -: LL Mainland Continents whispers: Thank you. Your own copy of this map kiosk will be delivered to you soon. Please use this instead of a texture as it automatically updates, with corrections or additions to the map.
[15:36] reddot99 Republic: lol, that makes sense, what the issue is,
[15:36] Kelly Linden: Jack: probably not.
[15:36] Jack Abraham: Just so we know what to expect.
[15:36] xstorm Radek: whats taking long ?
[15:37] Oskar Linden: everything these days it seems
[15:37] xstorm Radek: every thing seems fast to me
[15:37] Oskar Linden: except for the days themselves
[15:37] Oskar Linden: they fly by
[15:37] FireFox Bancroft: that's pretty common in anything i've used in terms of programming, it takes it's sweet time to think about it.
[15:37] Jack Abraham: Hey, it's not boring at least.
[15:37] Oskar Linden: def not boring
[15:37] Oskar Linden: this is the most exciting place I have ever worked
[15:37] Kelly Linden: We have been working on getting C# scripting to a beta stage. We have recently shifted focus to getting an updated mono and script lifecycle tests and improvements pulled from the C# branch over to the main branch.
[15:37] Oskar Linden: except for that samurai dojo
[15:38] FireFox Bancroft: and then usually windows throws out a "meh" dialong box and it just falls apart.
[15:38] xstorm Radek: :-)
[15:38] FireFox Bancroft: *dialog
[15:38] reddot99 Republic: somebody was saying you oughta work towards python instead of c#
[15:38] Oskar Linden: people say a lot reddot :-)
[15:38] Sylar Heckroth: heya oskar
[15:38] Oskar Linden: you should see the things they say about me in their blogs :-(
[15:38] Kelly Linden: It doesn't make sense for where we currently are reddot. And I'd shoot for javascript if we were starting fresh anyway.
[15:39] Sylar Heckroth: hey kelly
[15:39] Kelly Linden: But we aren't
[15:39] FireFox Bancroft: funny I can wrap my head around C# and Basic but Python eludes me.
[15:39] Base Diavolo: >.<
[15:39] xstorm Radek: ?
[15:39] SHAMUS Carter: python just stangles me
[15:39] xstorm Radek: Oskar you are doing great work
[15:39] Oskar Linden: ok xstorm did you file the issue about getting aditi messages on agni in vwr2?
[15:39] Gooden Uggla: says only nice things about oskar, doesn't want the beard to cry
[15:39] Base Diavolo: C# will be good because alot of current users are already fluent in it
[15:39] FireFox Bancroft: yep
[15:40] Sylar Heckroth: hey oskar i was wondering will the mesh code be in the 1.40 release already?
[15:40] SHAMUS Carter: yes c# will upen new opentunitires
[15:40] xstorm Radek: i need to file a jira but its not a cashe proble
[15:40] Kelly Linden: C# is good because it is so much better than LSL.
[15:40] FireFox Bancroft: newest game engine I've got uses C# almost exclusively
[15:40] reddot99 Republic: only thing im fluent in is lsl, which probably not a good thing
[15:40] Base Diavolo: versus everyone freaking out over having to learn something 'abstract'
[15:40] xstorm Radek: i just tested cache
[15:40] Kiosk -: LL Mainland Continents whispers: Thank you. Your own copy of this map kiosk will be delivered to you soon. Please use this instead of a texture as it automatically updates, with corrections or additions to the map.
[15:40] Draconis Neurocam: arrays heh
[15:40] Gooden Uggla: what does cryengiine2 use?
[15:40] Draconis Neurocam: lua
[15:40] Gooden Uggla: has a dream
[15:40] FireFox Bancroft: LUA
[15:40] Chaos Borkotron: i thought the mesh code was in 1.38?
[15:40] Gooden Uggla: ty ty
[15:40] Kelly Linden: So, the other thing I want to do, is change the link rules for prims.
[15:41] SHAMUS Carter: colbal
[15:41] SHAMUS Carter: lol
[15:41] xstorm Radek: i do not yet understand how its pulling up that data yet
[15:41] Kelly Linden: *dun dun dun*
[15:41] Jack Abraham: panics.
[15:41] reddot99 Republic: 64 meters straight?
[15:41] Kelly Linden: Maybe 55.
[15:41] SHAMUS Carter: eep link limits?
[15:41] Kitto Flora: link limit rule?
[15:41] Add On: Maestro Linden detected in this region
[15:41] xstorm Radek: but it looks like its doing what the old Hippo did
[15:41] reddot99 Republic: but max is already 64
[15:41] FireFox Bancroft: wasn't the link limit already 256?
[15:41] reddot99 Republic: link distance
[15:41] Kelly Linden: The link limit rule is a pita and somewhere around O(n^5) to O(n^8) if you understand big O notation
[15:41] SHAMUS Carter: distance
[15:41] FireFox Bancroft: Ah ok
[15:42] Kelly Linden: the max is currently 54
[15:42] xstorm Radek: the data is going from one server to the next server it seems
[15:42] Gooden Uggla: wasn't the link limitr a 20m sphere?
[15:42] Kelly Linden: 54m bounding sphere
[15:42] Techwolf Lupindo: Good greift...java would be worse then C#....
[15:42] FireFox Bancroft: ok thanks for clearing that up
[15:42] Kelly Linden: but it varies on size and position of each piece
[15:42] Rex Cronon: java would be better
[15:42] Gooden Uggla: err cool
[15:42] Draconis Neurocam: so how would 55 change that much from 54?
[15:42] Oskar Linden: xstorm. please file your findings and repro steps intoa jira and I can assign it to the vwr team
[15:42] Talisien Llewellyn: Any idea when that woud possibly be implemented, Kelly, or is it just theory for now?
[15:42] Jack Abraham: What's the benefit, Kelly?
[15:42] Ann Otoole: is there a way to pull from the asset system the max link distance in use by existing content?
[15:42] xstorm Radek: ok will do
[15:42] Sylar Heckroth: heya maestro
[15:43] Kelly Linden: 54 is the biggest for the biggest objects. normal default cubes have a limit around 4 meters I think?
[15:43] XLR8RRICK Hudson: 2 min
[15:43] Sylar Heckroth: hey simon wow quite a few lindens here today
[15:43] SHAMUS Carter: will link dinstance changes break existing content?>?
[15:43] Kelly Linden: Jack: the speed on how long it takes to figure out if a set can link
[15:43] Jack Abraham: SHAMUS has my concern.
[15:43] Kelly Linden: SHAMUS I would hope not
[15:43] XLR8RRICK Hudson: Good Luck with the tests
[15:43] Rex Cronon: it will be so much fun to obfuscate C# code:)
[15:43] Liisa Runo: i would go for simplified link distance limit. juat set it to 54 and dont waste time checking prim sizes and other stuff that affect it at the moment
[15:44] Liisa Runo: just*
[15:44] Jack Abraham: Won't break anything I make, but I'd socialize that well in advance.
[15:44] Techwolf Lupindo: One problem with mono/c#/java/etc. is they are not optimized for small script like that is use all over SL.
[15:44] xstorm Radek: oh i do not need broken linked builds
[15:44] Kiosk -: LL Mainland Continents whispers: Thank you. Your own copy of this map kiosk will be delivered to you soon. Please use this instead of a texture as it automatically updates, with corrections or additions to the map.
[15:44] reddot99 Republic: i doubt you could break anything by increasing link distance
[15:44] Rex Cronon: IMO c#, java will run way faster than lsl:)
[15:44] xstorm Radek: some of the builds i can not fix with this account
[15:45] Kelly Linden: I think a simple 55m for any size rule would fix it and drop us to O(n^3) ish range
[15:45] Jack Abraham: reddot99, I could see someone building something that relies on linking failing at some distances.
[15:45] Sylar Heckroth: a question i have is why isit when i get on aditi my profile goes back 2 years more or less XD
[15:45] FireFox Bancroft: That may be true but LSL is clunky, no offense.
[15:45] Kelly Linden: Possibly O(n) if I find a good implementation of a specific algorithm
[15:45] reddot99 Republic: n being number?
[15:45] xstorm Radek: and my first account has been gone for years
[15:45] Kelly Linden: number of prims in the link.
[15:45] SHAMUS Carter: o(n)?
[15:46] Draconis Neurocam: so the change would simply be for calculation sake, anything to save the server calculations is good heh
[15:46] Kelly Linden: big O is a measure of algorithmic speed.
[15:46] Sylar Heckroth: oskar i was wondering is the mesh code gonna be in the 1.40 server?
[15:46] Kelly Linden: Draconis: well, I'm finding that um, our current algorithm is REALLY REALLY horrible.
[15:46] Draconis Neurocam: hehe
[15:46] Kelly Linden: and far slower than even the mono stall.
[15:46] XLR8RRICK Hudson: Bye bye
[15:46] Oskar Linden: ok guys. I have to go afk now and get ready for some agni tests
[15:47] Oskar Linden: feel free to stay and chat with kelly
[15:47] Jack Abraham: Good luck, Oskar.
[15:47] reddot99 Republic: see ya oskar
[15:47] Oskar Linden: good meeting guys thanks
[15:47] Rex Cronon: tc oskar
[15:47] Draconis Neurocam: see ya oskar
[15:47] xstorm Radek: thank you Oskar
[15:47] Lares Carter: okay, good luck with the tests and thanks for your time.
[15:47] Chaos Borkotron: cheers
[15:47] Psi Merlin: Thanks Oskar
[15:47] Moon Metty: good luck with the test :)
[15:47] RINOBIT Footman: Ciao Oskar
[15:47] Monty Linden: sylar: no
[15:47] Base Diavolo: take care folks
[15:47] SHAMUS Carter: take care
[15:47] XLR8RRICK Hudson: Break a lrg Oskar
[15:47] Base Diavolo: GL tests
[15:47] Sylar Heckroth: take care oskar
[15:47] Moundsa Mayo: Thanks, Oskar!
[15:47] Oskar Linden: I'll send a test outline to the group for 1.40.4 stuff as soon as I can
[15:47] Oskar Linden: thanks again everyoen!
[15:47] Gooden Uggla: see ya in a bit
[15:47] ANSI Soderstrom: :) nice to meet u all again
[15:47] Monty Linden: til next week & a quiet pilot...
[15:48] Jack Abraham: Hear hear!
[15:48] Moon Metty: good luck Monty :)
[15:48] Monty Linden: we need it
[15:48] Gooden Uggla: so kelly, got a transcript from this week?
[15:48] FireFox Bancroft: best of luck on that
[15:48] Simon Linden: I have to run too for the test .. thanks everyone for coming
[15:48] Kelly Linden: gooden I don't
[15:48] Moon Metty: bye!
[15:48] Kelly Linden: sorry.
[15:48] Rex Cronon: tc all those that r leaving
[15:48] Gooden Uggla: adios monty, fair sailing
[15:48] Jack Abraham: Good luck, Simon.
[15:48] Moundsa Mayo: Thanks, Simon!
[15:48] Kelly Linden: I'm just picking up office hours from babbage, I don't quite have all the bits lined up and rolling smooth yet.
[15:48] Draconis Neurocam: i have to say its really good news that babbages projects wont be lost
[15:48] XLR8RRICK Hudson: One win will lead to another Monty
[15:48] Moundsa Mayo: ANd thanks, Monty!
[15:48] ANSI Soderstrom: vwr-4711
[15:48] Issue Helper: [#VWR-4711
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/vwr-4711
[15:49] Ima Mechanique: /
[15:49] Monty Linden: ta
[15:49] Gooden Uggla: tell him to make his chim invisible :P
[15:49] Simon Linden: Bye all!
[15:49] ANSI Soderstrom: ;)
[15:49] Sylar Heckroth: when i get on aditi my profile goes back to like 2 years ago heh and mixes with my current group and stuff
[15:49] Ima Mechanique: Kelly, what's happening with the Blighty studio?
[15:49] Kelly Linden: we haven't updated the aditi db in a long time.
[15:49] Sylar Heckroth: ah
[15:50] Kelly Linden: Ima: I'm not in a position to make official announcements, and I'm not sure what has been announced for that.
[15:50] Lares Carter: any timeframe for the link rule changes, kelly?
[15:50] Kelly Linden: Lares: probably not 1.40 or 1.42
[15:50] Ima Mechanique: ok, I know Babbage was waiting on a decision on the 9th I think. Wondered if it was decided yet
[15:51] Sylar Heckroth: sorry if i was a bit pushy about the mesh thing was just kinda hoping the mesh code was in the 1.40 just to see some good news so all we would have to wait for was a client but the fact that its not even in there is kinda saddening the wait is tough
[15:51] Techwolf Lupindo: I got 35 groups. Wheee. :-)
[15:51] Kelly Linden: The decision was made.
[15:51] reddot99 Republic: 38
[15:51] Kelly Linden: mesh is not in 1.40 or 1.42
[15:51] Draconis Neurocam: its still being worked on though, or is it backburner?
[15:52] Gooden Uggla: ok then, what IS in 1.42 now?
[15:52] SHAMUS Carter: more groups?
[15:52] Sylar Heckroth: sounds like we have a lot more time of waiting then
[15:52] reddot99 Republic: no, bug from aditi
[15:52] Chaos Borkotron: I hope they bring out mesh soon, WE NEED IT badly to bring SL up to standards
[15:52] reddot99 Republic: would make a lot of things easier and harder at once
[15:52] Kelly Linden: I don't know what is in 1.42.
[15:52] SHAMUS Carter: mesh plus h7 ple raycasting == sweet
[15:52] FireFox Bancroft: erf lets not open that can of worms just yet hehe
[15:52] Rex Cronon: some might say that mesh is badly needed to import your wow avatars:)
[15:53] Sylar Heckroth: i was just kinda irritated cuz they had this big announcement about Q2 of 2010 and its like months and months later
[15:53] reddot99 Republic: 1.42 has everything
[15:53] Kelly Linden: and nothing!
[15:53] FireFox Bancroft: My hope for mesh support is going to be the ability to bring in my old hoverbike models from 3DS
[15:53] reddot99 Republic: the issue is which version of collada will we get
[15:54] Draconis Neurocam: mesh is needed because working with a degenerate normal cylinder for everything gets annoying really fast
[15:54] FireFox Bancroft: I'm hoping H7 fixes some of those sim border crossing issues I've been experiencing
[15:54] Jack Abraham: I hope nobody else brings in your old hoverbike meshes FireFox.
[15:54] Kelly Linden: H7 does not address sim border crossing
[15:54] Moon Metty: lol Jack
[15:54] FireFox Bancroft: They can't because I don't have them uploaded anywhere :P
[15:54] SHAMUS Carter: H7 only adress phsycs
[15:54] Sylar Heckroth: ive completely stopped creating avatars because i was expecting to be able to use meshes because i despise sculpties but my face is turning blue from holding my breathe
[15:54] Rex Cronon: now copybots will be able to still meshes too:(
[15:54] FireFox Bancroft: Most of the models I make I don't upload.
[15:55] Gooden Uggla: i asked because 1,42 was sposed to be tcmalloc, which was tabled with c# *blows taps*
[15:55] Rex Cronon: to steal*
[15:55] reddot99 Republic: no, meshes will be rigged, and rigging would be hard to steal
[15:55] ANSI Soderstrom: avatas fail when trying to jump while a prim is over the avatars head
[15:55] SHAMUS Carter: well rember the old saying if you can see it someone somewhere can reproduce it
[15:55] Chaos Borkotron: I want to get into the closed beta ;)
[15:55] Ann Otoole: there have been mesh exporters for both opengl and directx for ages. used by the modding community. why worry about that which has always been there? The issue is policy and enforcement.
[15:55] xstorm Radek: sweet a IM crashed me
[15:56] FireFox Bancroft: that's true for anything Shamus
[15:56] ANSI Soderstrom: yaay
[15:56] Kelly Linden: tcmalloc is the only thing I know *may* be in 1.42
[15:56] Gooden Uggla: ok then, off to agni to test teh weaponz for oskar
[15:56] Alpha 5: Ready! Type 'bs help' for a list of commands.
[15:56] Gooden Uggla: see ya there
[15:56] FireFox Bancroft: I could easily replicate a Mammoth MK II in 3DS Max and that was only from pictures of it in the Tiberian sun game.
[15:56] Sylar Heckroth: wow so it seems like we have months more of waiting then?
[15:56] Gooden Uggla: thanks kelly
[15:56] xstorm Radek: Test
[15:56] Oskar Lindenri: Ashton: fire... where is that tank?? gimme!!!! :D
[15:57] FireFox Bancroft: I mean most of the stuff people make in SL already with prims is idea from other sources.
[15:57] Kelly Linden: always sylar
[15:57] ANSI Soderstrom: damn murphys law, It never works when someone's watching!
[15:57] FireFox Bancroft: so I really don't see any issue
[15:57] Sylar Heckroth: lol then why say q2 if it just aint gonna happen XD
[15:57] SHAMUS Carter: so 6thq
[15:57] Kelly Linden: things change sylar. sorry.
[15:57] Jack Abraham: looks down at his costume. "I'm sure not pushing the originality here."
[15:57] reddot99 Republic: kelly, the twoline fix mentioned here, can why have it? [3]
[15:57] Issue Helper: [#SVC-1612
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/svc-1612?focusedcommentid=26265&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3acomment-tabpanel#action_26265
[15:58] xstorm Radek: what person sent me a IM ?
[15:58] Kelly Linden: not happening
[15:58] Chaos Borkotron: i got a feeling LL is feeling the struggle, and SL may be beginning to fold
[15:58] reddot99 Republic: tired of putting up dozens of prims to match groups
[15:58] Lum Pfohl: Dunno, xstorm, but I can try sending you one to see if you crash again...
[15:58] Sylar Heckroth: well im just glad you're being straight forward kelly glad you're just doing PR kinda talk which would suck
[15:58] FireFox Bancroft: I'm tired of putting u p dozesn of sculpts and then overlaying them with transparent prims to make a cave.
[15:58] Sylar Heckroth: yu're not*
[15:58] xstorm Radek: i think it happen when i was saving a image
[15:58] Sylar Heckroth: im glad you're not doing PR talk
[15:59] SHAMUS Carter: yes sculpted prims are a pita
[15:59] Kelly Linden: unfortunately June was a huge company change. Most release estimates from before june are essentially meaningless
[15:59] xstorm Radek: seems saving a image to the hard drive and getting a IM is not good
[15:59] FireFox Bancroft: I'd rather just do my cave in 3D S Max or Milkshape or something then plop it into SL and walk inside it.
[16:00] SHAMUS Carter: if sculpties had prober colision that would rock
[16:00] Rex Cronon: what fre converters from .obj to collada r there?
[16:00] Rex Cronon: what free*
[16:00] Sylar Heckroth: so kelly with the knowledge that you have of what is going on do you think you might have a guestimate of how much longer the wait for meshes will be? just to give us some hope
[16:00] reddot99 Republic: blender
[16:00] SHAMUS Carter: hop proper colision is what meshes will bring
[16:00] FireFox Bancroft: wings3D
[16:00] Rex Cronon: except blender
[16:00] Draconis Neurocam: well kelly its good to hear you are still busy working on things, i believe ill see you at your office hours
[16:00] FireFox Bancroft: Milkshape isn't free but $30
[16:00] Rex Cronon: wings3d? nice:)
[16:01] FireFox Bancroft: and DAZ 3D has Hexagon which is $140 and already supports SL
[16:01] Kelly Linden: Sylar I really don't. What we are doing is pairing down what is being worked on to have a stronger focus (mostly on performance and crashes honestly) and I just don't know where all the projects landed from that.
[16:01] Ann Otoole: sculpty mesh collision exists in open source sims. maybe if it was on LL's list of things to do they could go grab it.
[16:01] Sylar Heckroth: but ya i respect ya kelly doing great work keep it up : )
[16:01] xstorm Radek: are you talking about the bounding box ? of a sculpty ?
[16:01] FireFox Bancroft: right xstorm
[16:02] Kelly Linden: Ok, I gotta go. I have office hours mondays at 9am SLT, and I generally announce em on my twitter (kellylinden) as well.
[16:02] Kelly Linden: cya
[16:02] Rex Cronon: btw from what i understand rigging is just addinga skelleton to your mehs
[16:02] Oskar Lindenri: Ashton: bye kelly!
[16:02] FireFox Bancroft: even when you change a sculpted prims shape the collision still remains as a sphere.
[16:02] Moon Metty: bye Kelly :)
[16:02] Jack Abraham: Later Kelly.
[16:02] Draconis Neurocam: have a good day kelly
[16:02] Rex Cronon: tc kelly
[16:02] xstorm Radek: yes as far as i know that has been a problem for some time now
[16:02] SHAMUS Carter: taka care
[16:02] Lum Pfohl: Thank you Kelly
[16:02] Sylar Heckroth: alright kelly take care keep up the good work : )
[16:02] Ann Otoole: thanks Kelly. Thanks Oskar
[16:02] Sylar Heckroth: thanks again
[16:02] Lares Carter: thanks for your time kelly, take care
[16:02] Moundsa Mayo: Thanks, Kelly!

Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2010-07-15

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