Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2013-01-03

[2013/01/03 15:00]  Maestro Linden: Happy new year!
[2013/01/03 15:00]  arton Rotaru: same
[2013/01/03 15:00]  Inara Breen: /me waves a New Year's greeting to all.
[2013/01/03 15:00]  Lares Carter: Hi Maestro, Happy New Year! :)
[2013/01/03 15:00]  arton Rotaru: crap I'm sitting at 0.0.0
[2013/01/03 15:00]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Happy New Year back
[2013/01/03 15:02]  Maestro Linden: Ok, let's get started
[2013/01/03 15:02]  Maestro Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
[2013/01/03 15:02]  Maestro Linden: So, we don't have much news in terms of recent server updates, since we haven't had any in the past two weeks
[2013/01/03 15:02]  Lucia Nightfire: I'm surprise theres any itenerary
[2013/01/03 15:02]  Lucia Nightfire: spl
[2013/01/03 15:03]  Maestro Linden: we have a few things lined up for next week
[2013/01/03 15:03]  Nal (nalates.urriah): How did the servers do for two weeks with no updates?
[2013/01/03 15:03]  Maestro Linden: but first.. let's hear from Caleb about the region crossing pile-on test that he ran
[2013/01/03 15:04]  Caleb Linden: Hello, thanks again for participating.
[2013/01/03 15:04]  Maestro Linden: Not too badly, Nal, though regions can get slower with high uptime
[2013/01/03 15:04]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Yay! Thx
[2013/01/03 15:04]  Caleb Linden: We are planning on deploying the Region Crossing build to a small RC channel next week.
[2013/01/03 15:04]  Maestro Linden: For context, Caleb hosted a pile-on test for region crossing : http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/Threaded-Region-Crossing-Pile-On-Tests/m-p/1772945/highlight/true#M8565
[2013/01/03 15:05]  Caleb Linden: But we are still working on ironing out issues that may arise
[2013/01/03 15:05]  Caleb Linden: If you remember the issues that you ran into during the pile on tests, could you file jiras?
[2013/01/03 15:05]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Will it go into Snacks or a custom group of RC regions?
[2013/01/03 15:06]  Lucia Nightfire: I remember nto beign able to make it to the pile test thansk to sim crashers...
[2013/01/03 15:06]  Caleb Linden: I believe one of the three regular RC regions
[2013/01/03 15:06]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Wow. That should be fun.
[2013/01/03 15:06]  Caleb Linden: Oh yeah
[2013/01/03 15:07]  Caleb Linden: The GC Test regions are still up, so you can play around there
[2013/01/03 15:08]  Caleb Linden: I think that's all I have regarding the Region Crossing topic, unless someone has questions.
[2013/01/03 15:08]  Maestro Linden: Somebody had reported slow crossings with heavily scripted vehicles, but I checked it out today and the crossing times seem to be about the same as with the main channel GC Test regions
[2013/01/03 15:08]  .
[2013/01/03 15:08]  arton Rotaru: col that it is going forward quickly
[2013/01/03 15:08]  arton Rotaru: cool even*
[2013/01/03 15:09]  Rex Cronon: hello everybody
[2013/01/03 15:09]  arton Rotaru: hey Rex :p
[2013/01/03 15:09]  Rex Cronon: .
[2013/01/03 15:09]  Maestro Linden: What else.. I asked Andrew how the interest list project is coming along, and he says that they might be ready for RC next week (pending QA verification of some bug fixes)
[2013/01/03 15:09]  arton Rotaru: yeah vehicle crossings did not improve, but AV only is pretty nice
[2013/01/03 15:09]  Maestro Linden: so we may have a pretty action-packed RC cycle next week
[2013/01/03 15:10]  Rex Cronon: hello everybody
[2013/01/03 15:12]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Any news on what other updates may roll to RC?
[2013/01/03 15:12]  Rex Cronon: why so laggy?
[2013/01/03 15:12]  Maestro Linden: I believe those two projects are the only candidates for next week's RC
[2013/01/03 15:12]  Lucia Nightfire: pending download spam
[2013/01/03 15:13]  Maestro Linden: in other news, Voidpointer is working on a new option for pathfinding characters
[2013/01/03 15:13]  Lucia Nightfire: I just love how pedning downloads/uploads eat net timing like cake
[2013/01/03 15:13]  arton Rotaru: CHARACTER_EXPLODE? :p
[2013/01/03 15:13]  Maestro Linden: Void: care to explain it?
[2013/01/03 15:13]  Maestro Linden: heh
[2013/01/03 15:14]  VoidPointer Linden: Yeah, sorry, typing-user err
[2013/01/03 15:14]  VoidPointer Linden: adding a new flag for characters "STAY_WITHIN_PARCEL"
[2013/01/03 15:14]  arton Rotaru: nice one
[2013/01/03 15:14]  VoidPointer Linden: if set, the character will only set goal points during wander, evade, pursuit, etc that are within the parcel they get created in
[2013/01/03 15:15]  arton Rotaru: and CHARACTER_EXPLODE AT EDGE :p
[2013/01/03 15:15]  Lucia Nightfire: should be a flag "NO_VERTICAL_OFF_WORLD" so VD prims don't do taht bobbing apple sillyness
[2013/01/03 15:15]  VoidPointer Linden: if the parcel is disjoint, they can still travel between the pieces of the parcel, but their goal points will only be within the allowed parcel
[2013/01/03 15:15]  Lucia Nightfire: oh yeah, long constant name ftw, heh
[2013/01/03 15:15]  VoidPointer Linden: character explode at edge would be easy :P
[2013/01/03 15:15]  arton Rotaru: ^^
[2013/01/03 15:16]  VoidPointer Linden: but somehow I doubt it would be very popular :)
[2013/01/03 15:16]  Squirrel Wood: CHARACTER_BREAK_APART ? :p
[2013/01/03 15:16]  Squirrel Wood: oh wait... that's covered by unlinking mostly..
[2013/01/03 15:16]  VoidPointer Linden: file jiras if you want new features for pathfinding
[2013/01/03 15:16]  Nal (nalates.urriah): So... in an 'L' shaped parcel they could wonder from far corner to far corner across an other parcel?
[2013/01/03 15:17]  Rex Cronon: shouts: what is going on?
[2013/01/03 15:17]  VoidPointer Linden: Nal: yes. I haven't finished the code yet, though, so it's possible I might be able to constrain it a bit better, but we'll see
[2013/01/03 15:17]  VoidPointer Linden: all I'm gonna promise right now is that the goal points will be in the parcel
[2013/01/03 15:18]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Still, even if it did wander out a bit, it sounds handy to me.
[2013/01/03 15:18]  Maestro Linden: to really prevent that case, I suppose you could set up some exclusion volumes around your parcel's interior faces to cut the nav mesh
[2013/01/03 15:18]  VoidPointer Linden: yes, I'd have to use the collision volumes for parcels. Those DO exist actually, so I've been considering them
[2013/01/03 15:18]  VoidPointer Linden: but don't know yet
[2013/01/03 15:19]  VoidPointer Linden: LOL, this is probably why we don't announce features too early :P
[2013/01/03 15:19]  arton Rotaru: ^^
[2013/01/03 15:19]  Maestro Linden: Yeah, sorry for adding that to the agenda :)
[2013/01/03 15:19]  Rex Cronon: something wrong with me? :(
[2013/01/03 15:19]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Sure. That is what I have done. I have run into a problem with wandering characters and return times. I can get a character returned if they are in a parcel too long.
[2013/01/03 15:19]  Maestro Linden: You look normal to me, Rex
[2013/01/03 15:19]  arton Rotaru: yep rex, try relogging
[2013/01/03 15:20]  arton Rotaru: the meeting is going normal for us
[2013/01/03 15:20]  Maestro Linden: except that you lost some armor on the left forearm
[2013/01/03 15:20]  VoidPointer Linden: Nal: what do you mean? you set up wander boundaries that are an AABB of a parcel?
[2013/01/03 15:20]  VoidPointer Linden: and if they wander outside of that too long, you teleport them back?
[2013/01/03 15:20]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): whats the agenda page again?
[2013/01/03 15:21]  Maestro Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
[2013/01/03 15:21]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): thx
[2013/01/03 15:22]  Nal (nalates.urriah): No. I let some wander using region boundaries in a region with several parcels. Some have the return time set very low.
[2013/01/03 15:22]  Nal (nalates.urriah): So, they get returned before the navigate out of the area.
[2013/01/03 15:23]  VoidPointer Linden: I see
[2013/01/03 15:23]  Maestro Linden: /me nods
[2013/01/03 15:23]  VoidPointer Linden: yeah, that seems inconvenient if it does trigger - wouldn't you have to re-create your character then?
[2013/01/03 15:24]  VoidPointer Linden: re-rez, sorry
[2013/01/03 15:24]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Yes. I have th re-rez. I would like to detect it so I could run for it.
[2013/01/03 15:24]  VoidPointer Linden: Well, I will see about using the parcel collision volumes. The only real issue there is if the parcel pieces are not connected.
[2013/01/03 15:25]  Nal (nalates.urriah): For now my stuff is just play. But, as I add Ai, that is something I have not figured out how to deal with.
[2013/01/03 15:25]  VoidPointer Linden: but I'll give it some thought and see what I can come up with.
[2013/01/03 15:25]  Rex Cronon: :(
[2013/01/03 15:25]  Squirrel Wood: Just a quick question... do animations speed up the further away the camera is for you? (I know it was fixed at some point but was broken again)
[2013/01/03 15:26]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Yay. After I've played more I might decide to write a feature request. I want to see what I can think up.
[2013/01/03 15:26]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): the fix had undesirable consequences and was pulled
[2013/01/03 15:26]  Maestro Linden: Avatar animations? I think they would remain at the same speed at all distances
[2013/01/03 15:26]  arton Rotaru: never seen speedy animations
[2013/01/03 15:26]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): no, tha avatar animation speed doubles at far distance
[2013/01/03 15:27]  VoidPointer Linden: Nal: please do :)
[2013/01/03 15:27]  Maestro Linden: Unless you have avatar impostors on and zoom out; when that happens, you just see a sprite for the avatar, which isn't updated very frequently
[2013/01/03 15:28]  Maestro Linden: In other, 'future stuff' news, baker is working on the rez code in the simulator
[2013/01/03 15:29]  arton Rotaru: faster rezzing/derezzing?
[2013/01/03 15:29]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Rez Code... is that like Interest List?
[2013/01/03 15:29]  Maestro Linden: Rezzing objects, I think
[2013/01/03 15:29]  Baker Linden: What I've been working on is hopefully significantly decreasing lag spikes when rezzing large, complex objects. Large does not necessarily imply size, but size of the files being read. When an object is rezzing, we have to parse the object / mesh files and create our in-world objects with that data. Until now, the reading and parsing of the file has been on the main thread, which means when lots of objects rez, our simulator stalls.
[2013/01/03 15:30]  Baker Linden: What I did was move it to a background thread, so multiple large objects won't choke the simulator (hopefully).
[2013/01/03 15:30]  Squirrel Wood: so you push it to its own thread?
[2013/01/03 15:30]  Squirrel Wood: good!
[2013/01/03 15:30]  arton Rotaru: nice stuff also
[2013/01/03 15:30]  Blake Burger: nice! :)
[2013/01/03 15:30]  Squirrel Wood: should also help with grey goo and griefer attacks
[2013/01/03 15:31]  Lucia Nightfire: would be nice if there was a resolution for https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7788 on the horizon
[2013/01/03 15:31]  Baker Linden: now I'm not going to promise that the viewer will have any improvements on the speed at which objects rez
[2013/01/03 15:31]  Baker Linden: it may help a bit
[2013/01/03 15:31]  Baker Linden: but it's more for preventing the simulator from stalling on large object rezzing
[2013/01/03 15:31]  Baker Linden: hopefully, we'll be able to handle multiple complex objects being rezzed at a single time without much lagging
[2013/01/03 15:32]  Maestro Linden: Yeah, that does sound like it would make the sim more robust against certain types of griefer attacks
[2013/01/03 15:32]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Baker, does the whole simulator stall or just the region with the rez?
[2013/01/03 15:32]  arton Rotaru: we'll see then
[2013/01/03 15:33]  Baker Linden: It should be just the region (the instance of the simulator rezzing the object)
[2013/01/03 15:33]  Maestro Linden: There's just 1 simulator process per region, so the answer is 'yes' :)
[2013/01/03 15:33]  Baker Linden: so multiple regions on a server will only have the region rezzing the object stall
[2013/01/03 15:33]  Nal (nalates.urriah): OK... so sim and region are interchangable? I am used to running several regions in a sim for OSGrid.
[2013/01/03 15:33]  Maestro Linden: there's the simulator process and the simulator host, Nal
[2013/01/03 15:34]  Baker Linden: but when that region stalls, any other region that is asking for messages, or other viewer messages, won't be processed until the rez happens
[2013/01/03 15:34]  Maestro Linden: multiple processes tend to run on a given host (server)
[2013/01/03 15:34]  Baker Linden: potentially preventing other things form happening as well
[2013/01/03 15:35]  Nal (nalates.urriah): I have been thinking of the sim-host as the server w/Linux OS rather than a piece of the Lab;s software. Is that wrong?
[2013/01/03 15:36]  Baker Linden: if the simulator is getting blocked because of rezzing a big object, then it's not processing other requests from other simulators or viewers, so it may help with some other things too. I can't promise anything in that way though
[2013/01/03 15:36]  Lucia Nightfire: the only thing promised in SL is drama and grifeing, lol
[2013/01/03 15:37]  Maestro Linden: No, that's right for 'sim host'. But usually when we just say 'simulator', we mean the process running a given region
[2013/01/03 15:37]  Lucia Nightfire: *griefing even
[2013/01/03 15:37]  Maestro Linden: The term is a bit overloaded
[2013/01/03 15:37]  Rex Cronon: i really hope there will be a transcript for this. b ecause for some reason i don't hear everything that is being said:(
[2013/01/03 15:37]  Maestro Linden: There will be
[2013/01/03 15:38]  Nal (nalates.urriah): OK, Thx Maestro. It is different than openSim and that is what had me thinking about it differently.
[2013/01/03 15:38]  arton Rotaru: it was your trampoline Rex, which broke the meeting for you :p
[2013/01/03 15:39]  VoidPointer Linden: Rex: there's no one talking, afaik - it's all text
[2013/01/03 15:39]  Maestro Linden: So that's about all we had for the agenda this week
[2013/01/03 15:39]  arton Rotaru: he can't see chat obviously
[2013/01/03 15:39]  Baker Linden: But that's about all I have to talk about -- I'll be doing some metrics (once I figure out how to measure what I need to measure) and see how significant my changes are
[2013/01/03 15:39]  Lucia Nightfire: what about all these random sim crashes/restarts even with nothign goign on them
[2013/01/03 15:40]  Lucia Nightfire: I have several tickets filed and I've been getting MAINT-1854 from support
[2013/01/03 15:40]  Lucia Nightfire: which seems to be a mystery to any Linden I've asked
[2013/01/03 15:41]  Blake Burger: It sounds like you guys are having too much fun over at the lab ;-)
[2013/01/03 15:41]  Maestro Linden: Hm, which region Lucia?
[2013/01/03 15:41]  Lucia Nightfire: can you review my ticket submissions?
[2013/01/03 15:42]  Lucia Nightfire: I posted for at least 5 different regions
[2013/01/03 15:42]  Maestro Linden: No, I don't have access to that system
[2013/01/03 15:42]  Lucia Nightfire: even my own region restarted yesterday and theres no physics no excessive scritps, no agents other than myself that use it
[2013/01/03 15:43]  Lucia Nightfire: so if I gave you support ticket numbers you couldn't access the reports?
[2013/01/03 15:43]  Rex Cronon: right. i can't see all chat:(
[2013/01/03 15:43]  Maestro Linden: No, not directly at least. But if you gave me region names and times, I could check out the crash reports
[2013/01/03 15:44]  Rex Cronon: for some reason i have over 700ms sim ping:(
[2013/01/03 15:44]  arton Rotaru: restart your router Rex
[2013/01/03 15:44]  Lucia Nightfire: ok, I'll send them to you in IM as its alot
[2013/01/03 15:44]  Lucia Nightfire: or maybe I should just make a nc
[2013/01/03 15:44]  Maestro Linden: just a few should be okay, if they really are the same
[2013/01/03 15:45]  Crissi Yoshikawa: Maestro, any word on fixes to the ghost physical objects problem (PATHBUG-183)? the latest beta version looks unchanged with the bug still evident. Andrew saw the problem manifest itself firsthand in Ahern at the last meeting on 12-13.
[2013/01/03 15:45]  Lucia Nightfire: it would also help if the report fields in tickets were selectable so I could c/p the info I logged
[2013/01/03 15:46]  Maestro Linden: I haven't heard any updates about that, Crissi
[2013/01/03 15:46]  Crissi Yoshikawa: ok, thanks Maestro
[2013/01/03 15:46]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): theres been no checkin fixes for it yet either
[2013/01/03 15:47]  Crissi Yoshikawa: ok, he said it may have to wait for a following RC so maybe he hasn't gotten to it
[2013/01/03 15:47]  Maestro Linden: the interest list update seems like it will limit the effect of the bug, I recall
[2013/01/03 15:48]  Crissi Yoshikawa: it does seem a little better but definitely still doing it
[2013/01/03 15:49]  Lares Carter: Maestro, can you explain why BUG-1116 got closed?
[2013/01/03 15:50]  Squirrel Wood: (It has been declared a feature? ;)
[2013/01/03 15:50]  Maestro Linden: Because it's a feature request, it was closed as 'not a bug'
[2013/01/03 15:50]  Lares Carter: I was told by either Andrew or Simon to file it as bug.
[2013/01/03 15:50]  Maestro Linden: oh, okay
[2013/01/03 15:50]  Lares Carter: There is no separate feature request option on Jira anymore.
[2013/01/03 15:51]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Everything I submit as a feature request get a couple of lindens looking at then closed in 2 or 3 days.
[2013/01/03 15:52]  Lares Carter: Is there a different route for feature requests now? It is a bit confusing to be honest, with some Lindens telling to file them as bug jira and now it got closed because it is not a bug.
[2013/01/03 15:52]  arton Rotaru: lol
[2013/01/03 15:52]  Maestro Linden: It's on a backlog for a product person to look at
[2013/01/03 15:53]  arton Rotaru: a product person who needs to be hired first though :p
[2013/01/03 15:54]  Nal (nalates.urriah): The best info came from Alexa Linden who eads all the JIRA BUG items. THat is to clearly say of they are a bug or feature report and name the Linden that suggested filing. Alexa then does her part to get it to the right people.
[2013/01/03 15:54]  VoidPointer Linden: jira > /dev/null.....er, wait, sorry, wrong command
[2013/01/03 15:54]  Lares Carter: So Jira is the right way and they'll always get closed but you guys will keep track of them internally?
[2013/01/03 15:54]  Nal (nalates.urriah): It often feels that way Void.
[2013/01/03 15:55]  Maestro Linden: Yes, Lares
[2013/01/03 15:55]  VoidPointer Linden: It's actually not true - we do look at Jiras :)
[2013/01/03 15:55]  Lares Carter: Okay, thanks.
[2013/01/03 15:56]  arton Rotaru: haha now I see the speedy animations^^
[2013/01/03 15:56]  arton Rotaru: fun stuff lol
[2013/01/03 15:56]  Squirrel Wood: you should print out jiras, have a good look at them from afar and then toss a burning torch at them :p
[2013/01/03 15:56]  arton Rotaru: never noticed this in over 5 years
[2013/01/03 15:56]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Alexa convinced me they are looked at. But, from the user side feedback is mostly invisible.
[2013/01/03 15:57]  VoidPointer Linden: that is unfortunately true, Nal. we do have internal versions of many bugs/features that are being worked on
[2013/01/03 15:57]  VoidPointer Linden: From an outside viewpoint though, I guess it is a bit opaque
[2013/01/03 15:58]  arton Rotaru: nicely worded lol
[2013/01/03 15:58]  VoidPointer Linden: But at the same time, when working on the bugs, there's a lot of internal data that comes out in the comments that is not public
[2013/01/03 15:58]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Well, In my thinking we can either have you guys working on things or talking to us, which doesn't get much done.
[2013/01/03 15:58]  VoidPointer Linden: So we need these internal bugs so we can discuss them without concerns internally
[2013/01/03 15:59]  arton Rotaru: lol poor Rex
[2013/01/03 15:59]  Nal (nalates.urriah): That amkes sense
[2013/01/03 15:59]  VoidPointer Linden: Not sure what the best solution is, though, honestly. Spending a lot of time updating public info DOES indeed subtract from time actually working on the issues
[2013/01/03 16:00]  arton Rotaru: time is up
[2013/01/03 16:00]  Maestro Linden: Indeed
[2013/01/03 16:00]  Squirrel Wood: ...Sleeping on a Cloud in the Sky Dreaming about Being One of the Actors in the Bold And the Beautiful...
[2013/01/03 16:01]  VoidPointer Linden: ok, that looks like about it for today then, unless there are more questions?
[2013/01/03 16:01]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): "when will chatlag be fixed" :P
[2013/01/03 16:01]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Not form me. Thanks Lindens. Happy New year.
[2013/01/03 16:01]  Blake Burger: Maestro check your IM real quick before ya log. See ya guys later! Will be looking forward to the upcoming changes. :)
[2013/01/03 16:02]  Maestro Linden: Thanks for coming everybody!
[2013/01/03 16:02]  VoidPointer Linden: when everyone has broadband and we have quantum computing servers?
[2013/01/03 16:02]  Squirrel Wood: Hoppy nude deer indeed!
[2013/01/03 16:02]  Blake Burger: LOL* Squirrel
[2013/01/03 16:02]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): so this year, woot! :D
[2013/01/03 16:02]  VoidPointer Linden: exactly :P
[2013/01/03 16:03]  Squirrel Wood: All we need is more Higgs Bosons :p
[2013/01/03 16:03]  VoidPointer Linden: (for you literal types out there - that was sarcasm - no, we're not promising all that this year :P )
[2013/01/03 16:03]  Squirrel Wood: Promise it will be fixed before christmas :p
[2013/01/03 16:03]  Squirrel Wood: but forget to mention which year :p
[2013/01/03 16:03]  VoidPointer Linden: Here's what I will promise:
[2013/01/03 16:03]  Caleb Linden: which christmas?
[2013/01/03 16:03]  VoidPointer Linden: find / -name "*base*" -user your -print | xargs 'chown us'
[2013/01/03 16:04]  VoidPointer Linden: when you figure that one out, chuckle for me :)
[2013/01/03 16:04]  VoidPointer Linden: have a good afternoon everyone.
[2013/01/03 16:04]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): tc everyone
[2013/01/03 16:04]  arton Rotaru: same
[2013/01/03 16:04]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): have a good weekend
[2013/01/03 16:04]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you.
[2013/01/03 16:04]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Bye all
[2013/01/03 16:04]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): See you!
[2013/01/03 16:05]  fuse McGinnis: l8tr
[2013/01/03 16:05]  Simon Linden: Bye everyone, thanks for coming
[2013/01/03 16:06]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): tc simon