Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2013-03-21

[2013/03/21 15:01]  Rex Cronon: hello everybody
[2013/03/21 15:01]  Vincent Nacon: heya all
[2013/03/21 15:01]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Maestro.
[2013/03/21 15:01]  Rex Cronon: hi
[2013/03/21 15:01]  Vincent Nacon: clearly I've been missing out for few months
[2013/03/21 15:01]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Inara.
[2013/03/21 15:02]  Maestro Linden: Hi guys
[2013/03/21 15:02]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Rex.
[2013/03/21 15:02]  Rex Cronon: hi maestro
[2013/03/21 15:02]  Rex Cronon: hi yuzuru
[2013/03/21 15:02]  Blake Burger: Sup Maestro
[2013/03/21 15:02]  Inara Pey: Hi, Yuzuru!
[2013/03/21 15:03]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Kelly.
[2013/03/21 15:03]  Rex Cronon: i have chat lag
[2013/03/21 15:03]  Inara Pey: Hey, Maestro, all!
[2013/03/21 15:03]  Maestro Linden: Okay, I think we can get started
[2013/03/21 15:03]  Maestro Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Agenda
[2013/03/21 15:03]  MartinRJ Fayray: Hello all
[2013/03/21 15:03]  Rex Cronon: hi
[2013/03/21 15:04]  Vincent Nacon: I have a lot to catch up (or maybe not much?)
[2013/03/21 15:04]  Maestro Linden: So, let's start with this week in Agni releases
[2013/03/21 15:04]  Maestro Linden: the main channel got a maint-server project, which had plenty of bug fixes
[2013/03/21 15:06]  Maestro Linden: BlueSteel and LeTigre are on the same other maint-server as last week, which just has that one bug fix
[2013/03/21 15:06]  Maestro Linden: Magnum, meanwhile, got a project with a bunch of fixes to the interest list
[2013/03/21 15:06]  Maestro Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_Magnum/13#13.03.15.272004
[2013/03/21 15:07]  Maestro Linden: The vehicle people were especially happy about the bug-1814 fix
[2013/03/21 15:07]  Maestro Linden: which was 'No object updates from vehicles after some region crossings'
[2013/03/21 15:07]  Inara Pey: Yup... took a flight around the Magnum Sandbox regions earlier - very smooth
[2013/03/21 15:08]  Maestro Linden: (this bug almost looked like a failed vehicle crossing each time, except that the vehicle scripts were actually running and everybody else saw you riding the vehicle)
[2013/03/21 15:08]  Maestro Linden: that's good to hear Inara
[2013/03/21 15:08]  Inara Pey: Erick Gregan is a happy man ‚òª
[2013/03/21 15:09]  Maestro Linden: also in Magnum, if an avatar sits on a 'sim teleporter', they now won't appear in the wrong location
[2013/03/21 15:09]  Vincent Nacon: pardon me, I've been out of loop for few months but... about the vehicle update, which kind of updates that were failing?
[2013/03/21 15:09]  Maestro Linden: object updates
[2013/03/21 15:09]  Maestro Linden: after a region crossing, the sim wouldn't give you any data about the vehicle's position
[2013/03/21 15:09]  Vincent Nacon: and that didn't affect the motion frame ?
[2013/03/21 15:09]  Vincent Nacon: keyframemotion I mean
[2013/03/21 15:10]  Maestro Linden: oh, it was a keyframed motion object.. yes that might also be affected
[2013/03/21 15:10]  Vincent Nacon: hm ok
[2013/03/21 15:10]  Maestro Linden: people only reported issues with standard physical vehicles though
[2013/03/21 15:10]  Maestro Linden: in Jira at least
[2013/03/21 15:10]  Vincent Nacon: better test that afterward
[2013/03/21 15:10]  Maestro Linden: sure
[2013/03/21 15:11]  Maestro Linden: the Magnum sandboxes should be available for that testing
[2013/03/21 15:11]  Vincent Nacon: next topic?
[2013/03/21 15:11]  Maestro Linden: next..
[2013/03/21 15:11]  Maestro Linden: there was also an improvement for the appearance of off-camera objects
[2013/03/21 15:12]  Maestro Linden: the the interest list update a few weeks ago, there was an optimization that you wouldn't get object updates for objects outside of your camera view
[2013/03/21 15:12]  Maestro Linden: but this lead to some bad-looking behavior in some cases, when you eventually turned your camera around to face the object
[2013/03/21 15:13]  Maestro Linden: for example, if you saw a red box
[2013/03/21 15:13]  Maestro Linden: then moved your camera so that the box wasn't in view
[2013/03/21 15:13]  Maestro Linden: then the box changed its color to blue
[2013/03/21 15:13]  Maestro Linden: if you moved your camera back a few minutes later, the box would very briefly appear as red, before changing to blue
[2013/03/21 15:14]  Maestro Linden: with the magnum update, these updates are throttled, but eventually (after up to 5 seconds) you will get an update for the off-camera object
[2013/03/21 15:14]  Maestro Linden: so that the box would initially appear at its new color when you turn back to face it
[2013/03/21 15:14]  Maestro Linden: the4
[2013/03/21 15:15]  Maestro Linden: the trade-off is that there's slightly more bandwidth involved in sending updates for objects that you can't currently see
[2013/03/21 15:15]  Vincent Nacon: is this interest list affected by those who have object-object occlision?
[2013/03/21 15:15]  Maestro Linden: overall, object loading should be much faster in Magnum, especially for cached regions
[2013/03/21 15:15]  Vincent Nacon: occlusion*
[2013/03/21 15:16]  Maestro Linden: the interest list doesn't do occlusion, but the viewer does that
[2013/03/21 15:16]  Maestro Linden: (for rendering)
[2013/03/21 15:16]  Vincent Nacon: then why not?
[2013/03/21 15:17]  Maestro Linden: the server isn't aware about render details such as alpha-mapped textures
[2013/03/21 15:17]  Maestro Linden: so it can't tell a solid brick wall from a textured window
[2013/03/21 15:17]  Vincent Nacon: ah the view of interest is all on server?
[2013/03/21 15:18]  Maestro Linden: the set of objects you see inworld is determined both by the viewer and server
[2013/03/21 15:18]  Vincent Nacon: had assumed it was based on the request from the client
[2013/03/21 15:18]  Maestro Linden: but you won't see any objects in the viewer if the server doesn't tell the viewer about them
[2013/03/21 15:19]  Maestro Linden: Well, Andrew could give a better explanation than me, but the viewer basically says, "my camera is at this position and orientation, and here is my FOV"
[2013/03/21 15:19]  Maestro Linden: and the server takes that information and figures out which objects are in view
[2013/03/21 15:19]  Maestro Linden: (along with knowledge of where the avatar is)
[2013/03/21 15:20]  Vincent Nacon: right, understood
[2013/03/21 15:20]  Maestro Linden: I was going to point you to https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Interest_List , but it's a bit empty :P
[2013/03/21 15:20]  Vincent Nacon: muhaha!
[2013/03/21 15:21]  Rex Cronon: is not interesting enough?
[2013/03/21 15:21]  Maestro Linden: Functional Spec
 (none)
[2013/03/21 15:21]  Maestro Linden: always working as designed I guess
[2013/03/21 15:21]  Vincent Nacon: was just brainstorming how the client could have helped without adding more data over net
[2013/03/21 15:21]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): I want to see the list of interest list..
[2013/03/21 15:21]  Maestro Linden: actually Vincent, that's one of the things that also changed in Magnum
[2013/03/21 15:22]  Maestro Linden: when the server sends object updates to the viewer, it sends different types of updates
[2013/03/21 15:22]  Maestro Linden: there are full updates, which include all the parameters of the object
[2013/03/21 15:23]  Maestro Linden: and there are teres updates, which contain less data, and indicate simple changes such as the object moving (it has position, rotation, velocity, color, and possibly name)
[2013/03/21 15:23]  Maestro Linden: full updates are sent when you first see the object
[2013/03/21 15:23]  Maestro Linden: now, these full updates have multiple times
[2013/03/21 15:23]  Maestro Linden: some are considered 'cacheable' for the viewer, and others are non-cacheable
[2013/03/21 15:24]  Maestro Linden: up until Magnum, if an object had a script in any of its prims, it was always considered non-cacheable
[2013/03/21 15:24]  Maestro Linden: because who knows, that script could change something about the object at any point in time
[2013/03/21 15:24]  Maestro Linden: a
[2013/03/21 15:24]  Vincent Nacon: well.. I was just thinking about how to avoid seeing the box being red for brief moment before updated to blue when come into view
[2013/03/21 15:25]  Maestro Linden: and when non-cacheable object disappears, the viewer discards all data about it. So if the object reappears, the sim needs to send the viewer all that data
[2013/03/21 15:25]  Vincent Nacon: maybe void render first hand before the update?
[2013/03/21 15:25]  Maestro Linden: this change helps that: Updates for objects that are out of view are delayed for a maximum of 5 seconds, at which point they will be sent (mitigates BUG-1779[c])
[2013/03/21 15:25]  Vincent Nacon: assuming with the OOo
[2013/03/21 15:25]  Maestro Linden: Anyway, back to cacheable objects,
[2013/03/21 15:25]  Rex Cronon: u can put a downloading icon above it vincent:)
[2013/03/21 15:26]  Vincent Nacon: object-object Occlusion*
[2013/03/21 15:26]  Vincent Nacon: yeah could but that's "tacky" for SL
[2013/03/21 15:26]  Maestro Linden: with magnum's change, the simulator considers any object that didn't change in the last 1 minute to be cacheable
[2013/03/21 15:26]  Maestro Linden: including objects with scripts or physical objects which haven't' moved in a while
[2013/03/21 15:26]  Maestro Linden: this means that the viewer will save the object details to its local cache when you leave the sim
[2013/03/21 15:27]  Maestro Linden: and if you reenter the sim later, the object should appear much more quickly
[2013/03/21 15:27]  Vincent Nacon: trying to think how it could have affected objects that are justifiable to games
[2013/03/21 15:27]  Maestro Linden: also, for these cacheable objects, they now load in order of decreasing 'solid angle'
[2013/03/21 15:27]  Maestro Linden: solid angle is a measure of how 'big' an object is in your screen
[2013/03/21 15:27]  Rex Cronon: i guess the size of your cache plays a very imortant role in how fast objects show on your screen.
[2013/03/21 15:27]  Margithe: bigger things rez first?
[2013/03/21 15:28]  Maestro Linden: right, big and near objects will appear before small and distant objects
[2013/03/21 15:28]  Rex Cronon: very important*
[2013/03/21 15:28]  Maestro Linden: Yes, it makes a big difference in speed, rex
[2013/03/21 15:28]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Is it only horizontal width is considered for size?
[2013/03/21 15:28]  Blake Burger: thats cool :)
[2013/03/21 15:28]  Rex Cronon: so, what is the max size u can set your cache to?
[2013/03/21 15:28]  Vincent Nacon: small items tends to have more prim count than larger objects
[2013/03/21 15:29]  Margithe: Hm. I can totally see people making unnecessary oversized alpha objects just to make their thing rez first, especially if it's a 1024 texture
[2013/03/21 15:29]  Maestro Linden: Hm, not sure what that limit is, Rex
[2013/03/21 15:29]  Vincent Nacon: muhaha! you mean like cloud, skybox and mountains?
[2013/03/21 15:29]  Maestro Linden: that could be possible, Margithe. Also, you'd see such objects from further away
[2013/03/21 15:29]  Margithe: I mean like uploading rigged clothes as big as possible.
[2013/03/21 15:30]  Vincent Nacon: oy... people does that?
[2013/03/21 15:30]  Rex Cronon: there are these mega-sculpties of mountains surrounding a sim...
[2013/03/21 15:30]  Whirly Fizzle: 10000 Mb max I think. Not sure if thats hard coded limit
[2013/03/21 15:30]  Maestro Linden: well, attachments don't seem to be sent as cacheable updates, I think, sine they're not tied to a particular region
[2013/03/21 15:30]  Maestro Linden: so I don't believe that 'solid angle' sorting would apply
[2013/03/21 15:31]  Vincent Nacon: well you can't get that file size max without avoiding the polygon count, I believe..
[2013/03/21 15:31]  Rex Cronon: hmm. 10gb. is not that bad
[2013/03/21 15:31]  Whirly Fizzle: I seem to be able to set over 10 gig in debug
[2013/03/21 15:31]  Nal (nalates.urriah): is 'solid angle' a horizantal thing or does it look for max angle whether vert or hor?
[2013/03/21 15:31]  Maestro Linden: I'd have to check with Andrew, nal
[2013/03/21 15:32]  Nal (nalates.urriah): thx
[2013/03/21 15:32]  Maestro Linden: It may be the max of horizontal and vertical
[2013/03/21 15:32]  Margithe: Hm... so it would also make sense to add a huge cube to a vehicle, so it rezzes fast when it drives by.
[2013/03/21 15:32]  Vincent Nacon: maybe it's based on the position of the camera?
[2013/03/21 15:32]  Maestro Linden: like the smallest 2d circle that contains the object
[2013/03/21 15:32]  Nal (nalates.urriah): That would work....
[2013/03/21 15:32]  Maestro Linden: I have to emphasize that the solid angle sorting only applies to cacheable objects, which a moving vehicle wouldn't be
[2013/03/21 15:33]  Margithe: Would it still be taken into consideration, if the object is 100% alpha?
[2013/03/21 15:33]  Monty Linden: the dirigible racers bribed us
[2013/03/21 15:33]  Maestro Linden: non-cacheable updates follow some sort of round-robin system
[2013/03/21 15:33]  Vincent Nacon: the what?
[2013/03/21 15:33]  Rex Cronon: u can make "statues" out of your cars and place them in your sim:)
[2013/03/21 15:33]  Maestro Linden: probably, Margithe
[2013/03/21 15:34]  Maestro Linden: if you have a bunch of objects updating their appearance rapidly, there's a queue for the updates
[2013/03/21 15:34]  Vincent Nacon: and is there a counter-abuse?
[2013/03/21 15:34]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): It may be better to test and play with the changes and report cases where the important things are not showing up correctly or where the order is wrong than to focus immediately on ways to outsmart the logic behind them.
[2013/03/21 15:35]  Maestro Linden: yeah, Kelly's right
[2013/03/21 15:35]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): I can't really speak for Andrew but I'm pretty sure we'd rather make things work right if we can than delve too deep into work arounds.
[2013/03/21 15:35]  Maestro Linden: things should load faster, and hopefully load completely :)
[2013/03/21 15:37]  Maestro Linden: Nal: Got this from andrew regarding solid angle: "you can think of it as its bounding radius divided by its distance from the camera"
[2013/03/21 15:37]  Vincent Nacon: close enough
[2013/03/21 15:37]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Thx, that makes sense.
[2013/03/21 15:38]  Rex Cronon: i am glad kelly is here. because i have a small question for you kelly. if there is time of course:)
[2013/03/21 15:38]  Maestro Linden: Alright, so I think that covers this week's updates
[2013/03/21 15:38]  Rex Cronon: it involves this bug: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-2040
[2013/03/21 15:38]  Maestro Linden: we have an upcoming project which should interest some of you
[2013/03/21 15:38]  Rex Cronon: why does(string)((integer)llGetSubString("a",0,0)) outputs 0 and not 97.
[2013/03/21 15:38]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): There will probably be a few questions for me by the time we get through Maestro's schedule.
[2013/03/21 15:38]  Maestro Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Upcoming_Stuff
[2013/03/21 15:38]  Vincent Nacon: is it particles?
[2013/03/21 15:38]  Maestro Linden: yes
[2013/03/21 15:39]  Vincent Nacon: animated particles?
[2013/03/21 15:39]  Maestro Linden: also particles
[2013/03/21 15:39]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): no
[2013/03/21 15:39]  Vincent Nacon: OH COME ON
[2013/03/21 15:39]  Vincent Nacon: :P
[2013/03/21 15:39]  Maestro Linden: Alright, so there's an upcoming server maintenance project, which will probably go to RC next week
[2013/03/21 15:39]  Maestro Linden: it has your usual bug fixes, but it also includes goodies for new LSL features
[2013/03/21 15:39]  Duckie Dickins: group chat is going to be fixed? Oh....wait...it's not on the list....got my hopes up there for a second. :P
[2013/03/21 15:39]  Maestro Linden: new LSL features include:
[2013/03/21 15:40]  Maestro Linden: changed() now triggers in child prims for CHANGED_REGION and CHANGED_TELEPORT
[2013/03/21 15:40]  Rex Cronon: glow particles? that is going to be good:)
[2013/03/21 15:40]  Maestro Linden: yes, there are new particle system options
[2013/03/21 15:40]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Yay!
[2013/03/21 15:40]  Blake Burger: this sounds awesome
[2013/03/21 15:40]  Vincent Nacon: child prim can teleport out without the root?
[2013/03/21 15:40]  Maestro Linden: for glow (start glow and end glow), 'ribbon' particles, and more blending options
[2013/03/21 15:40]  Maestro Linden: the changed() event will trigger int he child prim, letting it know that it was teleported
[2013/03/21 15:41]  Maestro Linden: in the last, Vincent, only the root prim got this event
[2013/03/21 15:41]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): prior to that fix the changed event would only trigger in scripts in the root prim.
[2013/03/21 15:41]  Vincent Nacon: ah ok
[2013/03/21 15:41]  Rex Cronon: how would a ribon particle look like?
[2013/03/21 15:41]  Maestro Linden: it renders in 3d space
[2013/03/21 15:41]  Vincent Nacon: and ribbon is like... hmm HL2's string?
[2013/03/21 15:41]  Maestro Linden: like a ribbon
[2013/03/21 15:41]  Vincent Nacon: or rope
[2013/03/21 15:41]  Maestro Linden: (double sided)
[2013/03/21 15:42]  Rex Cronon: u mean u can set particles to follow a path?
[2013/03/21 15:42]  Maestro Linden: http://www.digitalrune.com/Portals/0/images/Particles/Samples/RibbonSample.jpg
[2013/03/21 15:42]  Maestro Linden: ^ they look something like this
[2013/03/21 15:42]  Maestro Linden: repeating the texture horizontally
[2013/03/21 15:42]  Vincent Nacon: is it always facing camera?
[2013/03/21 15:42]  Maestro Linden: nope
[2013/03/21 15:42]  Lares Carter: very nice
[2013/03/21 15:42]  Whirly Fizzle: Oh cool
[2013/03/21 15:42]  Vincent Nacon: so... I could use it on a car for skid marks?
[2013/03/21 15:43]  Duckie Dickins: one particle for particle leashes instead of dozens. :)
[2013/03/21 15:43]  Rex Cronon: so they move with the object?
[2013/03/21 15:43]  Margithe: does it move from object to object, or just from object to fade?
[2013/03/21 15:43]  Maestro Linden: they do, Rex
[2013/03/21 15:43]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Someone will try to use it for hair...
[2013/03/21 15:43]  Maestro Linden: I think it should work with all the other particle options
[2013/03/21 15:43]  Vincent Nacon: no doubt, Nal
[2013/03/21 15:43]  Rex Cronon: like a string of cans that follow a newly wed car:)
[2013/03/21 15:43]  Maestro Linden: however, the viewer to actually render these new effects isn't in beta yet
[2013/03/21 15:43]  Lucia Nightfire: you'll see longcat bullets take advantage of teh ribbon effect, heh
[2013/03/21 15:44]  Rex Cronon: wow. u could make hair out of these:)
[2013/03/21 15:44]  Maestro Linden: wouldn't it be nyancat with the rainbow?
[2013/03/21 15:44]  Lucia Nightfire: and nya cat trail makers, heh
[2013/03/21 15:44]  Maestro Linden: perfect
[2013/03/21 15:44]  Margithe: it could replace flexi?
[2013/03/21 15:44]  Vincent Nacon: if I understand this correctly... instead of particles, it's a segment of polygon?
[2013/03/21 15:44]  Rex Cronon: 10k particles of somebodys head:)
[2013/03/21 15:44]  Rex Cronon: on*
[2013/03/21 15:44]  Maestro Linden: I think we can revisit the details later when we actually have a viewer to test with
[2013/03/21 15:44]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): One very important thing to realize about these particle changes is that this is the server side support for them, there is also a required viewer update of course which I don't have an ETA on. As a side effect of this any particle system that uses glow or the blend functions will not render at all on older viewers.
[2013/03/21 15:45]  Duckie Dickins: well..one ribbon per prim I would think...unless it allowed multiple ribbons..
[2013/03/21 15:45]  Maestro Linden: Which is probably for the best, if the particle wasn't going to render as the creator intended
[2013/03/21 15:45]  Vincent Nacon: yeah one per prim should be enough, to prevent abuse
[2013/03/21 15:45]  Rex Cronon: can one prim have like 10k ribbon particles:)
[2013/03/21 15:46]  Lucia Nightfire: one prim can have one particle system
[2013/03/21 15:46]  Maestro Linden: Nah, it's 1 system per prim just like classical particle systems
[2013/03/21 15:46]  Maestro Linden: Okay, we're getting short on time, so let's get to the other new feature
[2013/03/21 15:46]  Maestro Linden: Kelly wrote an animation override system
[2013/03/21 15:46]  Vincent Nacon: but could it have particle and ribbon at the same time?
[2013/03/21 15:46]  Nal (nalates.urriah): YAY!
[2013/03/21 15:46]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): client side AO?
[2013/03/21 15:47]  Maestro Linden: which lets you override the default animation on a given state (e.g. "jumping")
[2013/03/21 15:47]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Vincent: the ribbon is just a parameter (flag actually) on the existing particle system
[2013/03/21 15:47]  Maestro Linden: not client side, server-side, tankmaster
[2013/03/21 15:47]  Vincent Nacon: ah ok
[2013/03/21 15:47]  Lucia Nightfire: halleujha
[2013/03/21 15:47]  Whirly Fizzle: o.O
[2013/03/21 15:47]  Margithe: O.o
[2013/03/21 15:47]  Lucia Nightfire: about time, lol
[2013/03/21 15:47]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): I rarely write viewer code, if I can avoid it.
[2013/03/21 15:47]  Maestro Linden: instead of having a client-side or LSL-based AO which 'fights' the default walk, etc animations, you replace them
[2013/03/21 15:47]  Lucia Nightfire: throw these stupid high timer agent info reading AO's away
[2013/03/21 15:47]  Vincent Nacon: and as for AO... I'm not really sure how that'll help with the lag
[2013/03/21 15:47]  Whirly Fizzle: Nice!
[2013/03/21 15:47]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): so its like the TPV client side AO, but implmented on the server?
[2013/03/21 15:48]  Nal (nalates.urriah): I suppose we need a viewer change to implement changing animations?
[2013/03/21 15:48]  Maestro Linden: nal: nope!
[2013/03/21 15:48]  Margithe: do you think you could replace some default animations while at it? Like, the duckwalk?
[2013/03/21 15:48]  Maestro Linden: it's available immediately
[2013/03/21 15:48]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): the AO changes are all server side, except for syntax highlighting in the script editor
[2013/03/21 15:48]  Vincent Nacon: so it's just a list update to the server?
[2013/03/21 15:48]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): 'immediately' == w/ this upcoming server version
[2013/03/21 15:48]  Duckie Dickins: I'm sure several animators would donate some replacement animations to get rid of the duckwalk. :)
[2013/03/21 15:48]  Maestro Linden: yeah, immediately on aditi :)
[2013/03/21 15:48]  Nal (nalates.urriah): So, a script sort of sets the list of replaced default animations?
[2013/03/21 15:49]  Duckie Dickins: sample code sample code sample code!
[2013/03/21 15:49]  Maestro Linden: llSetAnimationOverride("Walking", "sassywalk") duckie :)
[2013/03/21 15:49]  Vincent Nacon: and how is it restored?
[2013/03/21 15:49]  Lucia Nightfire: is that the only function involved?
[2013/03/21 15:49]  Duckie Dickins: will be great for weapons too. :)
[2013/03/21 15:49]  Vincent Nacon: back to default I mean
[2013/03/21 15:49]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): string llGetAnimationOverride(string anim_state)
 * Get the name of the animation currently set for state.
[2013/03/21 15:49]  Lucia Nightfire: or are you beign silly
[2013/03/21 15:49]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): llSetAnimationOverride(string anim_state, string anim)
 * Set the animation that will play for state.
 * Requires new runtime permissions PERMISSION_OVERRIDE_ANIMATIONS
[2013/03/21 15:49]  Lucia Nightfire: what region has that active atm?
[2013/03/21 15:50]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): llResetAnimationOverride(string anim_state)
 * Resets the animation for the given state to the default. 
 * Special state of "ALL" will reset all animation overrides to their defaults.
 * Requires new runtime permissions PERMISSION_OVERRIDE_ANIMATIONS
[2013/03/21 15:50]  Vincent Nacon: so if you detached the prim which the script called the AO, does it restore the list?
[2013/03/21 15:50]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): llGetAnimationOverride requires *either* PERMISSION_OVERRIDE_ANIMATIONS *or* PERMISSION_TRIGGER_ANIMATIONS
[2013/03/21 15:50]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Vincent: no.
[2013/03/21 15:50]  Vincent Nacon: then it need to be
[2013/03/21 15:50]  Lucia Nightfire: what region is that active on atm?
[2013/03/21 15:51]  Maestro Linden: Lucia, the channel name is DRTSIM-201
[2013/03/21 15:51]  Duckie Dickins: weapon creators hate having to include a complete AO to include things like runs and such that don't look silly for their various swords, etc...this will be great.
[2013/03/21 15:51]  Maestro Linden: currently, that means regions...
[2013/03/21 15:51]  Lucia Nightfire: so I guess I'll hunt a region with that down, like I did with the last llGOD() constants, lol
[2013/03/21 15:52]  Maestro Linden: CCMTEST17, CCMTEST22, CCMTEST23, CCMTEST26, CCMTEST29 (those are all mainland, so should be accessible)
[2013/03/21 15:52]  Duckie Dickins: now it's just a matter of two items trying to fight control of what overridden animation to play. :D
[2013/03/21 15:52]  Lucia Nightfire: shiney's to play withs
[2013/03/21 15:52]  Blake Burger: Not to cause controversy but will these changes finally cause the 'older' viewers to stop functioning? :o
[2013/03/21 15:52]  Margithe: well no, it's not a shiny. It's actually what it should have been from the start. So a good fix. Thanks.
[2013/03/21 15:53]  Lucia Nightfire: ya
[2013/03/21 15:53]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): I have a related viewer patch so that Stop Animating Me will also reset the animation state overrides
[2013/03/21 15:53]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): If anyone is interested in that, let me know.
[2013/03/21 15:53]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): yes
[2013/03/21 15:53]  Maestro Linden: Here is the list of animation states you can override:
 "Standing",
 "Sitting",
 "Sitting on Ground",
 "Jumping",
 "Hovering",
 "Taking Off",
 "CrouchWalking",
 "Walking",
 "Running",
 "Hovering Up",
 "PreJumping",
 "Hovering Down",
 "FlyingSlow",
 "Flying",
 "Falling Down",
 "Striding",
 "Landing",
 "Soft Landing",
 "Crouching",
 "Standing Up",
 "Turning Left",
 "Turning Right"
[2013/03/21 15:53]  Lucia Nightfire: newline floods
[2013/03/21 15:53]  Rex Cronon: is there also an event that get triggered when the animation overrite s changed?
[2013/03/21 15:53]  Vincent Nacon: hmm would be nice if swimming was part of it too
[2013/03/21 15:53]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): No Rex
[2013/03/21 15:53]  Vincent Nacon: but I know... it's provided by AO scripters
[2013/03/21 15:54]  Duckie Dickins: my concern is someone already wearing an AO with this various overridden animations and then attaching a weapon that replaces running, walking jumping....
[2013/03/21 15:54]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): This keys directly into the server's animation states. There are some things the viewer handles separately that are not covered, like idle animations and swimming.
[2013/03/21 15:54]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): These calls are all compatible with existing AOs, assuming appropriate priorities are used.
[2013/03/21 15:54]  Whirly Fizzle: What priority do the anims use when set in that way?
[2013/03/21 15:55]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): The priorities are part of the animations, not the states.
[2013/03/21 15:55]  Lucia Nightfire: ya
[2013/03/21 15:55]  Maestro Linden: so that would be baked into the animation asset at upload time
[2013/03/21 15:55]  Whirly Fizzle: ahh okay
[2013/03/21 15:55]  Rex Cronon: it would be so good if there was lsl function that changed anim priority:)
[2013/03/21 15:56]  Whirly Fizzle: heeh thats what I was wondering if was now possible
[2013/03/21 15:56]  Margithe: it would be good to display priority of an animation somewhere. Or even be able to change it, past upload
[2013/03/21 15:56]  Duckie Dickins: at least animations in an AO can be low and then a special attachment like a weapon could use a higher...since the AO doesn't have to fight the defaults anymore.
[2013/03/21 15:56]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Priority changing is difficult because it is baked into the asset. It would require extensive changes to modify that.
[2013/03/21 15:57]  Margithe: Duckie: everyone is uploading everything at highest priority, always. Otherwise customers complain that the animation doesn't play.
[2013/03/21 15:57]  Maestro Linden: Also, once an animation override is set for a given state, it is preserved for the rest of the session, unless you reset it
[2013/03/21 15:57]  Vincent Nacon: true
[2013/03/21 15:57]  Margithe: so there is more or less just 1 priority anyways
[2013/03/21 15:57]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Which does lead to another caveat, Maestro. They do get cleared on relog.
[2013/03/21 15:58]  Whirly Fizzle: No way around that?
[2013/03/21 15:58]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Nope.
[2013/03/21 15:58]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Any chance of there being a choice about that session thing in the future?
[2013/03/21 15:58]  Whirly Fizzle: :(
[2013/03/21 15:58]  Duckie Dickins: well that can change now that those animations don't have to fight the defaults.....but that would mean reuploading those animations at a lower priority
[2013/03/21 15:58]  Rex Cronon: imagine somebody leaves a ballet class and forgets to overwritte anims:)
[2013/03/21 15:58]  Rex Cronon: and goes to a combat sim:)
[2013/03/21 15:58]  Vincent Nacon: I honestly thought it should clear on detach, because some kids like to troll people with "fake" items, like the Candy Apple into vomiting
[2013/03/21 15:59]  Margithe: Agreed, Vincent
[2013/03/21 15:59]  Lucia Nightfire: I think the most common Vincent is the mistitled humping mudkip, lol
[2013/03/21 15:59]  Vincent Nacon: yup
[2013/03/21 15:59]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): The 'Stop Animating Me' patch will help address that, but a simple script can do it as well
[2013/03/21 16:00]  Margithe: was "sit" in that list too?
[2013/03/21 16:00]  Maestro Linden: Yep
[2013/03/21 16:00]  Maestro Linden: as "Sitting"
[2013/03/21 16:01]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): This is not a complete AO replacement, it won't make AOs obsolete but it should help them do a significant portion of their work easier and smoother.
[2013/03/21 16:01]  Maestro Linden: so poseball type objects should use llStopAnimation(llGetAnimationOverride("Sitting")) instead of llStopAnimation("sit") in order to play nicely
[2013/03/21 16:01]  Vincent Nacon: I know "stop animating me" option could do it too but I'd favor the detach over that
[2013/03/21 16:01]  Margithe: but they don't.
[2013/03/21 16:01]  Margithe: it doesn't revoke on unsit?
[2013/03/21 16:01]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): The permission is not autogranted on sitting.
[2013/03/21 16:01]  Lares Carter: Is PERMISSION_OVERRIDE_ANIMATIONS automatically granted on attach?
[2013/03/21 16:02]  Lucia Nightfire: the big test with teh AO thing is if the animations are picked up easily by agents entering teh region or comign down from a high altitude, presently unless the AO replays the animations on a timer they can be missed
[2013/03/21 16:02]  Maestro Linden: Yes, that's the one and only case
[2013/03/21 16:02]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Seats and poseballs should probably continue to use trigger animations
[2013/03/21 16:02]  Maestro Linden: (@ Lares)
[2013/03/21 16:02]  Rex Cronon: i g2g. tc everybody.
[2013/03/21 16:02]  Vincent Nacon: seeya
[2013/03/21 16:02]  Maestro Linden: they should be, Lucia
[2013/03/21 16:03]  Whirly Fizzle: Exciting stiff. You guys have been busy :)
[2013/03/21 16:03]  Whirly Fizzle: err stuff
[2013/03/21 16:03]  Maestro Linden: as long as you guys saw my velociraptor walk last week
[2013/03/21 16:03]  Vincent Nacon: muhaha!
[2013/03/21 16:03]  Lares Carter: Very exciting new features - llLinkPlaySound() is next? :D
[2013/03/21 16:03]  Rohacan Hirons: Hello
[2013/03/21 16:03]  Vincent Nacon: FMOD should be next for audio related ;)
[2013/03/21 16:03]  Maestro Linden: who knows :)
[2013/03/21 16:03]  tehKellz (kelly.linden): Take care everyone
[2013/03/21 16:03]  Maestro Linden: yes, we are out of time
[2013/03/21 16:03]  Nal (nalates.urriah): bye Kelly
[2013/03/21 16:03]  Maestro Linden: thanks for coming!
[2013/03/21 16:04]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Thanks Lindens
[2013/03/21 16:04]  Lares Carter: Thanks for the meeting.
[2013/03/21 16:04]  Rohacan Hirons: I'm too late ?
[2013/03/21 16:04]  Vincent Nacon: yup
[2013/03/21 16:04]  Inara Pey: Thanks, Maestro, Kelly
[2013/03/21 16:04]  Maestro Linden: Yes, it just ended
[2013/03/21 16:04]  Lucia Nightfire: daylight savings time bloopers
[2013/03/21 16:04]  Vincent Nacon: sorry Rohacan
[2013/03/21 16:04]  Lucia Nightfire: big time
[2013/03/21 16:04]  Margithe: yup, the americans changed time this week
[2013/03/21 16:04]  Maestro Linden: aw, sorry
[2013/03/21 16:04]  fuse McGinnis: bye all
[2013/03/21 16:04]  Margithe: the euros do it next week.
[2013/03/21 16:04]  Blake Burger: hehe