Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2013-06-20

[2013/06/20 15:02]  Maestro Linden: Hi guys
[2013/06/20 15:02]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Maestro.
[2013/06/20 15:02]  Rex Cronon: hi maestro
[2013/06/20 15:02]  Jenna Felton: hi Maestro
[2013/06/20 15:02]  Amber Murfin: Hi Everyone.
[2013/06/20 15:02]  Rex Cronon: hi
[2013/06/20 15:02]  Amber Murfin: Hi Maestro
[2013/06/20 15:02]  Jenna Felton: and Caleb
[2013/06/20 15:02]  Caleb Linden: howdy
[2013/06/20 15:02]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): I must rewrite my tutorials.
[2013/06/20 15:02]  Rex Cronon: hello caleb
[2013/06/20 15:03]  MartinRJ Fayray: hello maestro!
[2013/06/20 15:03]  Maestro Linden: howdy
[2013/06/20 15:03]  Theresa Tennyson: /me glares at Maestro while wearing MATBUG-137'd hair.
[2013/06/20 15:03]  Dil Spitz: Hey :)
[2013/06/20 15:04]  Rex Cronon: maestro. u pumping iron so much, u must be looking like hercules
[2013/06/20 15:04]  Rex Cronon: :)
[2013/06/20 15:04]  Maestro Linden: :)
[2013/06/20 15:04]  Maestro Linden: okay, let's get started
[2013/06/20 15:04]  Maestro Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Agenda
[2013/06/20 15:05]  Maestro Linden: We rolled all the channels this week
[2013/06/20 15:05]  Maestro Linden: The main channel got the interest list project that was on all 3 RCs last week,
[2013/06/20 15:05]  Maestro Linden: and was on Magnum for a good while before then
[2013/06/20 15:07]  Maestro Linden: all three RC channels got the server maintenance project which was very briefly on Bluesteel and LeTigre last week
[2013/06/20 15:08]  Maestro Linden: as you may recall, it was rolled back following some concerns about rezzing failing on parcels that allowed building but disallowed object entry
[2013/06/20 15:08]  Maestro Linden: (which is a common configuration for sandbox regions and such)
[2013/06/20 15:09]  Maestro Linden: but we fixed those bugs, and also tweaked the behavior of the llReturnObjectsByID function,
[2013/06/20 15:10]  Calypso Levee: Lindens everywhere! Hi.
[2013/06/20 15:10]  schwanpuhl: that's why i came here too ^_^
[2013/06/20 15:10]  Calypso Levee: Hahaha.
[2013/06/20 15:10]  Calypso Levee: We are all jealous aren't we?
[2013/06/20 15:10]  Maestro Linden: the llReturnObjectsByID change was to limit the potential for griefing if somebody 'accidentally' granted permissions
[2013/06/20 15:10]  Jonathan Yap: You have come across a weekly server user group meeting
[2013/06/20 15:10]  schwanpuhl: oooh is this an office hour?
[2013/06/20 15:10]  Maestro Linden: Yep!
[2013/06/20 15:10]  VoidPointer Linden: /me chuckles
[2013/06/20 15:10]  Calypso Levee: Hahahaha.
[2013/06/20 15:11]  Lucia Nightfire: its actualyl kind of lite for a OH
[2013/06/20 15:11]  Lucia Nightfire: a little
[2013/06/20 15:11]  Rex Cronon: nope. this the waterhole used by ll:)
[2013/06/20 15:11]  schwanpuhl: awesome, i've always wanted to be in one. do i get immortalized in the transcript?
[2013/06/20 15:11]  Calypso Levee: ROFL.
[2013/06/20 15:11]  VoidPointer Linden: you will be today :P
[2013/06/20 15:11]  Lucia Nightfire: you get your own name color on teh website
[2013/06/20 15:11]  Amber Murfin: /me laughs
[2013/06/20 15:11]  schwanpuhl: woot!
[2013/06/20 15:11]  Maestro Linden: Yes, this will go down on your permanent record :)
[2013/06/20 15:11]  Calypso Levee: Hahaha.
[2013/06/20 15:12]  schwanpuhl: what are we talking about today? anything scripty?
[2013/06/20 15:12]  Maestro Linden: This release right now: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_RC_BlueSteel/13#13.06.18.277494
[2013/06/20 15:12]  Lucia Nightfire: the table will be open soon I thinks
[2013/06/20 15:12]  Jenna Felton: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group
[2013/06/20 15:12]  schwanpuhl: oh. did i miss the office hour about JSON?
[2013/06/20 15:12]  VoidPointer Linden: a few weeks ago, yes
[2013/06/20 15:13]  Maestro Linden: Lucia, have you had a chance to play with the return functions more? I know you were pretty excited about them
[2013/06/20 15:13]  Lucia Nightfire: yes, I'm already working on several apps tthat are facilitated by them, you can probably guess which
[2013/06/20 15:13]  Maestro Linden: Cool
[2013/06/20 15:14]  Lucia Nightfire: but I do have one that is what I consider a convenience for sandbox guests in regards to mishaps with faux rex boxes
[2013/06/20 15:14]  Maestro Linden: and of course the other new feature is CHARACTER_STAY_WITHIN_PARCEL
[2013/06/20 15:14]  Lucia Nightfire: ie a "clean my prims." thingy
[2013/06/20 15:14]  Lucia Nightfire: with limits of course
[2013/06/20 15:15]  Jenna Felton: I am in planing to update my unpack script, which by now removes the rezzed prodct box. with the functions the customer will get a chance to receive the box baci into inventory. . This is another application :)
[2013/06/20 15:16]  Lucia Nightfire: they'd have to be land owners and grant perms explcitily though
[2013/06/20 15:16]  Maestro Linden: Jenna, for that one would the customer generally be the parcel owner or estate manager?
[2013/06/20 15:16]  Lucia Nightfire: LO's, GO's, EO's or EM's
[2013/06/20 15:16]  Jenna Felton: no, it will return itself. there must be no further restriction needed, just the return permision
[2013/06/20 15:17]  Jenna Felton: at least when i understand the introduction correctly
[2013/06/20 15:17]  Lucia Nightfire: hopefully it works out
[2013/06/20 15:17]  Maestro Linden: it requires parcel return permissions too,
[2013/06/20 15:17]  Jenna Felton: via llReturnObjectsByID([llGetKey()])
[2013/06/20 15:18]  Maestro Linden: Hm, unfortunately that will fail with ERR_PARCEL_PERMISSIONS if the owner can't generally return objects from the parcel the object is on
[2013/06/20 15:18]  Jenna Felton: ok
[2013/06/20 15:18]  Maestro Linden: although I don't think we need to prevent that case
[2013/06/20 15:19]  Jenna Felton: it would be very nice :)
[2013/06/20 15:19]  Rex Cronon: now. if the objects could be returned to the inventory of the object that rezzed them...
[2013/06/20 15:20]  Jenna Felton: that would be generally a great feature Rex
[2013/06/20 15:21]  Jenna Felton: the rezz boxes and holodecks would profit of it definitelly
[2013/06/20 15:21]  Jenna Felton: benefit*
[2013/06/20 15:22]  Rex Cronon: imagine wearing a pet in a cage. if u leave the sim the pet returns to cage:)
[2013/06/20 15:22]  Jenna Felton: yes
[2013/06/20 15:23]  Jonathan Yap: You can do that now if it is a pathfinding character I think
[2013/06/20 15:23]  Rex Cronon: or a small dragon on you your shoulder:)
[2013/06/20 15:23]  Jenna Felton: imagine a vehicle that unsits you, returns into a ring you wear, the ring comew with you over to another sim, the vehicle is rezzed out of the ring and you are sitting on he vehicle.
[2013/06/20 15:23]  Maestro Linden: well, it wouldn't return to the contents of the cage object..
[2013/06/20 15:23]  Maestro Linden: I mean, you can't do that now
[2013/06/20 15:24]  Jenna Felton: although sitting back on hte vehicle needs a special viewer.. but i think this is vision of a far future :)
[2013/06/20 15:24]  Rex Cronon: i know maestro. just imagining possibilities:)
[2013/06/20 15:25]  Maestro Linden: I guess we can transition to open floor now
[2013/06/20 15:25]  Maestro Linden: Caleb and I are testing some server changes, but they're not all that exciting (mostly crash fixes and the like)
[2013/06/20 15:26]  Jonathan Yap: Is that the crash fix the music venue people are wanting?
[2013/06/20 15:26]  Lucia Nightfire: SEC-1204 still is a problem on the latest code, just my weekly fyi, heh
[2013/06/20 15:26]  Maestro Linden: I'm not sure Jonathan, I'd have to see the Jira #
[2013/06/20 15:27]  Amber Murfin: Do we have any information on a possible fix SVC-8130 at all as we are getting a fix for the other major region presence big?
[2013/06/20 15:27]  schwanpuhl: ummm, anything interesting happening with the urlencoded forms content type?
[2013/06/20 15:28]  Maestro Linden: No, I don't see any activity for SVC-8130, Amber
[2013/06/20 15:28]  Dil Spitz: may i ask if there is anything what could be tested to drill SVC-8130 (some neighboring regions are not visible) down some? as getting more SIMs that show that effect or finding a pattern that is underlying the effect?
[2013/06/20 15:29]  Maestro Linden: the related SVC-8019 bug is more about sims not talking to each other, whereas 8130 is about viewer-simulator communication
[2013/06/20 15:31]  Amber Murfin: From memory when the sims were being consolidated 2 to co-location sites (i think that's right from memory) it did get allot better for a while....
[2013/06/20 15:31]  Maestro Linden: Dil, I guess coming up with a super reliable way to trigger the bug would be helpful for verifying the fix, but I'm not sure if that's possible
[2013/06/20 15:32]  Amber Murfin: The sims i mention in my post in the forum are 100% consistent for me, every day, relog etc.
[2013/06/20 15:33]  Dil Spitz: Maestro, my experience shows that the cam-root get SIMs not showing often (not every-time) to show
[2013/06/20 15:33]  Dil Spitz: /nodsto Ambers comment too
[2013/06/20 15:33]  Amber Murfin: It doesn't appear to be viewer specific, every viewer i've fried (firestorm, Various Linden viewers) all seem to behave the same.
[2013/06/20 15:34]  Dil Spitz: /me nods again: and ist account indipendent too
[2013/06/20 15:35]  Amber Murfin: Although it'll be interesting to see if anything changes when the RC version rolls grid wide as they are Main channel sims
[2013/06/20 15:35]  Rex Cronon: r those sims that u can't sharing a border or a corned with sim u r in?
[2013/06/20 15:35]  Rex Cronon: that u can't see*
[2013/06/20 15:35]  Amber Murfin: Yes, It's a South West corner.
[2013/06/20 15:35]  Maestro Linden: Hm, I just logged my tester into 'following seas', and he can see into 'cursed rock'
[2013/06/20 15:35]  Amber Murfin: Although i can see South East fine
[2013/06/20 15:36]  Dil Spitz: corners most in south in my expierence
[2013/06/20 15:36]  Amber Murfin: It will show, then vanish after around 60 seconds or so...
[2013/06/20 15:36]  Rex Cronon: i think at one time andrew talked about problems with showing sims that share a corner
[2013/06/20 15:36]  Maestro Linden: ah cool, now it's gone
[2013/06/20 15:36]  Maestro Linden: (just seconds after you said it would) :P
[2013/06/20 15:36]  Amber Murfin: lol
[2013/06/20 15:37]  Amber Murfin: i did say "Around" 60 seconds, i haven't timed it with a stop watch yet, lol.
[2013/06/20 15:37]  Lucia Nightfire: wheres the whirls at, theres a jira about taht bug
[2013/06/20 15:37]  Dil Spitz: sometimes one can even interact with media-on-prim in the SIM (from neighbor sim) before it vanish
[2013/06/20 15:37]  Lucia Nightfire: sim corners vanishing after 60 secs
[2013/06/20 15:38]  Dil Spitz: yes and more often if its in Your back
[2013/06/20 15:38]  Amber Murfin: You can Chat into and see chat from the sim, and if you move west into teh next sim it will show correctly.
[2013/06/20 15:38]  Jenna Felton: when you go between sims that are nearby on the map but not connected, you can see for a while the sim you was in, before it vanishes
[2013/06/20 15:38]  Amber Murfin: Interestingly, from cursed rock you can see Following seas fine.
[2013/06/20 15:38]  Rex Cronon: maybe if u get close to the corner it shows up?
[2013/06/20 15:38]  Jenna Felton: perhaps this is related to that bug?
[2013/06/20 15:39]  Amber Murfin: Nope, you can stant right on the corner and it still doesn't show.
[2013/06/20 15:39]  Maestro Linden: I think it's separate from the one fixed in RC; in that other case, the sims wouldn't talk to each other, so you'd never be able to establish a connection to the neighbor while in the original sim
[2013/06/20 15:39]  Amber Murfin: /me nods
[2013/06/20 15:40]  Maestro Linden: it looks like some kind of false communications timeout in the remote region, where it disconnects your viewer
[2013/06/20 15:40]  Rex Cronon: either ther viewer doesn't request info about the sim in the corners or the those sim stop sending info
[2013/06/20 15:40]  Dil Spitz: Maestro, doviewer logs help to drill it down
[2013/06/20 15:40]  Dil Spitz: ?
[2013/06/20 15:40]  Jenna Felton: you stop being a child agent of the sim
[2013/06/20 15:41]  Amber Murfin: I seem to remember some logs were posted somewhere, but it all got confusing as there were intrest list bugs and all sorts getting posted as well so it kinda got lost.
[2013/06/20 15:41]  Rex Cronon: maybe it has something to do with max size of array that holds child agents?
[2013/06/20 15:42]  Dil Spitz: Amber, Dan Linden did one in SVC-8130
[2013/06/20 15:43]  Dil Spitz: /me where speculating if it could be in connection with the interest list
[2013/06/20 15:44]  Dil Spitz: SIMs show if Youlook themif they are in Your back the tend to vanish more often
[2013/06/20 15:44]  Rex Cronon: if that were true dil than it would happen with sims that share a border
[2013/06/20 15:45]  Dil Spitz: oky
[2013/06/20 15:46]  Dil Spitz: but moving only the cam in (by flycam or else ) brings the sims back on mini-map and world-view
[2013/06/20 15:46]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): Sorru Im late, did i miss anything? :P
[2013/06/20 15:47]  Amber Murfin: In this instance Dil, moving the cam in has no effect...
[2013/06/20 15:47]  Dil Spitz: most often,it brings them back, there might be different issues on that
[2013/06/20 15:48]  Lucia Nightfire: I have a beef with how the interest list works with adjacant regions versus draw distance and how far from a region center your cam is, theres just too much redrawing and memory use increase prematurely, I truely wish we had a switch/button to turn on/off "Render adjacent regions."
[2013/06/20 15:48]  Dil Spitz: well Amber, imho there are at least two types of not showing SIMs
[2013/06/20 15:49]  Lucia Nightfire: testing on my region in aditi has been great, no other regions around and I can max my draw without worry of ramping my memory and render all of my sim
[2013/06/20 15:49]  Amber Murfin: I agree Dil :) @Lucia, that would be great, would that be a viewer feature though?
[2013/06/20 15:50]  Script & Memory Use Scale Counter: Total Scripts: 2
 Total Memory: 80k
[2013/06/20 15:50]  Script & Memory Use Scale Counter: Congratulations! Script weight under 3 mb.
[2013/06/20 15:50]  Lucia Nightfire: you just opt out of being a child agent
[2013/06/20 15:50]  Lucia Nightfire: make sure you reconnect when turnign it off
[2013/06/20 15:51]  Lucia Nightfire: not rocket science in making that feature, would be a killer savings on downloading and memory usage, gfx card usage, everything
[2013/06/20 15:52]  Lucia Nightfire: as it stands I can't move my cam from teh center of a sim without opening up 3 - 4 more regions and most of the stuff on their borders
[2013/06/20 15:52]  Lucia Nightfire: when all I want to do is look at the stuff in the region I'm in
[2013/06/20 15:52]  Lucia Nightfire: since the interest list project I almost always have 8- 9 regions showing
[2013/06/20 15:52]  Lucia Nightfire: and thats with 128 for draw
[2013/06/20 15:52]  Lucia Nightfire: lol, sorry, but its sort of frustrating
[2013/06/20 15:53]  Lucia Nightfire: I would kill for such a simple feature as not to render adjacent regions
[2013/06/20 15:54]  Lucia Nightfire: I would trade that for render by script thats how bad I want it, lol
[2013/06/20 15:54]  Lucia Nightfire: *return
[2013/06/20 15:54]  Latif Khalifa: would make region crossing difficult
[2013/06/20 15:55]  Latif Khalifa: otherwise it would be trivial to patch the viewer for that
[2013/06/20 15:55]  VoidPointer Linden: One downside to that would be a large delay in region crossing at it has to download the rendering data and not use any cached data.
[2013/06/20 15:55]  Dil Spitz: /me smiles at Lucia: well shooting atm a multi SIM regatta, have for that a 1k DD and would indeed love to see the SIMs ;)
[2013/06/20 15:56]  VoidPointer Linden: but yes, that does seem like something that could be done on the viewer side
[2013/06/20 15:57]  Lucia Nightfire: its an on/off switch for when its needed or not, if they want to cross regions they can turn it off, I'm telling you, it would be a major bandwidth savings for both parties and ease the burden on slow connections gfx cards, and memory, to me its win/win for all
[2013/06/20 15:58]  Jonathan Yap: To save bandwidth the change would be to be done at the server side
[2013/06/20 15:58]  Lucia Nightfire: I mean you're not querying adjacent regions for data
[2013/06/20 15:58]  Jonathan Yap: oh, maybe you mean the viewer just doesn't request loads of textures
[2013/06/20 15:59]  VoidPointer Linden: yeah, rendering speed could be better on the viewer by just ignoring the data for the other regions, but if you want to actually save bandwidth, the server would have to be modified to not send the data in the first place
[2013/06/20 16:00]  Jenna Felton: i think this idea is a logical sequel on the interests list project
[2013/06/20 16:00]  Lucia Nightfire: I'm not keen on the quirks that would need to be implemented, I've only seen this feature used on an experimental tpv and it kicked ass
[2013/06/20 16:00]  Lucia Nightfire: for me personally 95% of my grid travel is by tp, not region crossing
[2013/06/20 16:01]  Lucia Nightfire: and 99% of the time I'm only interested in seeing what is going on in the region I'm in
[2013/06/20 16:01]  Lucia Nightfire: not wasting bandwidth downloading 8 other regions just for moving my cam around in the region
[2013/06/20 16:01]  Jenna Felton: but in any case you need to update the viewer just to add the switch to the preferences or GUI
[2013/06/20 16:01]  Jenna Felton: even if the rest is done by servers
[2013/06/20 16:02]  Lucia Nightfire: its cake for thought though, I think its a world class winner imo, lol
[2013/06/20 16:02]  Jonathan Yap: Write up a jira
[2013/06/20 16:02]  Lucia Nightfire: I wrote one for FS, lol, guess I need to make the LL equiv
[2013/06/20 16:02]  Maestro Linden: Hm, maybe you could have the viewer start with a conservative draw distance, then gradually crank that up as FPS and bandwidth are within acceptable levels
[2013/06/20 16:03]  Maestro Linden: which would probably mean that you'd have a bigger draw distance in an isolated region than in the middle of mainland
[2013/06/20 16:03]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): FS has something similer to that
[2013/06/20 16:03]  Jonathan Yap: I briefly had a viewer the auto-reduced DD as memory was running out--it drove me crazy and I found out how to disable that feature
[2013/06/20 16:03]  Jonathan Yap: the=that
[2013/06/20 16:03]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): it steps up the DD incermentally to your specified DD in preference
[2013/06/20 16:04]  Maestro Linden: would a nonspherical draw distance also be useful? if you're more interested in vertically-distant things than horizontally-distant
[2013/06/20 16:04]  Lucia Nightfire: http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-2325
[2013/06/20 16:04]  Amber Murfin: Or even the other way, not interested in anything above say 100M but want a massive draw distance around you...
[2013/06/20 16:04]  Jonathan Yap: Maestro, if you were to alter the shape of the sphere I suggest it would make more sense to "flatten" it, as most people are looking forwards, not up
[2013/06/20 16:05]  Lucia Nightfire: the pic there is my region with the feature active, no other BS to render with draw at 1024
[2013/06/20 16:05]  Maestro Linden: yes that's true, Jonathan
[2013/06/20 16:05]  Jonathan Yap: That would have repercussions for scripts scanners, etc. though
[2013/06/20 16:05]  Maestro Linden: it sounded like Lucia was more interested in things far above or below her though, if she was more interested in things in the same region
[2013/06/20 16:05]  VoidPointer Linden: that's all culled by the frustum anyway, maestro - draw distance only comes into play for the direction you're actually looking
[2013/06/20 16:06]  Maestro Linden: oh, okay
[2013/06/20 16:06]  Dil Spitz: Maestro, a flatted DD shape (with reduced high) might be useful maybe
[2013/06/20 16:06]  Maestro Linden: there is a hard cap on vertical interest list subscriptions, I believe
[2013/06/20 16:06]  Maestro Linden: Okay, we're over time
[2013/06/20 16:06]  Jonathan Yap: Thank you everybody. Good discussion tonight.
[2013/06/20 16:07]  Maestro Linden: Yes
[2013/06/20 16:07]  Lucia Nightfire: laters all
[2013/06/20 16:07]  Dil Spitz: /me nods
[2013/06/20 16:07]  Maestro Linden: thanks for coming, everybody!
[2013/06/20 16:07]  Dil Spitz: thank You :)
[2013/06/20 16:07]  Amber Murfin: Thanks for popping in and looking at my issue Maestro :)
[2013/06/20 16:07]  Maestro Linden: Sure thing Amber
[2013/06/20 16:07]  VoidPointer Linden: bye everyone, see you next week