Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2014-06-12

[2014/06/12 15:00]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Maestro.
[2014/06/12 15:00]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hi guys
[2014/06/12 15:00]  Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Ave Maestro
[2014/06/12 15:00]  Jenna Felton: hi Maestro
[2014/06/12 15:00]  Whirly Fizzle: Heya Maestro
[2014/06/12 15:00]  Rex Cronon: hi maestro
[2014/06/12 15:00]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, TankMaster.
[2014/06/12 15:00]  Jenna Felton: anybody knows what moles build next sim, at Rizel?
[2014/06/12 15:00]  Jenna Felton: hello Tank
[2014/06/12 15:02]  Jenna Felton: seems to be a cool beach town
[2014/06/12 15:02]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I haven't been over to see that myself
[2014/06/12 15:03]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): does that exist on Agni ?
[2014/06/12 15:03]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Agni/Rizal
[2014/06/12 15:03]  Jenna Felton: no, its seem to be new
[2014/06/12 15:03]  Jenna Felton: ah, on agni, i will look later :)
[2014/06/12 15:03]  Jenna Felton: here it sems to be new
[2014/06/12 15:04]  Jenna Felton: hi Caleb
[2014/06/12 15:04]  Caleb Linden: hey guys
[2014/06/12 15:04]  Nal (nalates.urriah): :)
[2014/06/12 15:04]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Caleb.
[2014/06/12 15:04]  Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Ohhhh two lindens
[2014/06/12 15:05]  Rex Cronon: hi caleb
[2014/06/12 15:05]  Caleb Linden: hiya
[2014/06/12 15:05]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): heya caleb
[2014/06/12 15:05]  Inara Breen: Did someone use a freeze ray on Maestro....?
[2014/06/12 15:05]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Okay, let's get started
[2014/06/12 15:05]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Whirly stopped dancing too
[2014/06/12 15:06]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): weird.
[2014/06/12 15:06]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Agenda
[2014/06/12 15:06]  Whirly Fizzle: I crashed
[2014/06/12 15:06]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): [15:05] Whirly Fizzle left the region.
[2014/06/12 15:06]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Oops, now she poofed
[2014/06/12 15:06]  Jenna Felton: and i stil see her
[2014/06/12 15:06]  Whirly Fizzle: Right after 'Maestro Tester' rezzed :P
[2014/06/12 15:06]  Rex Cronon: hopefully nobody brought a ave crasher here...
[2014/06/12 15:07]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Okay, so there's an agenda!
[2014/06/12 15:07]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I just have 2 things lined up for this meeting..
[2014/06/12 15:07]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): /me gasps
[2014/06/12 15:07]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): first, update talks
[2014/06/12 15:07]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): secondly, a quick performance test for LSL materials
[2014/06/12 15:07]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Let's start with the updates..
[2014/06/12 15:08]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): so this week, we reintroduced the projects that were briefly introduced last wednesday morning
[2014/06/12 15:08]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): but which were wiped out by last wednesday night's emergency deploy
[2014/06/12 15:09]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): for all three projects, the only change between the versions going to RC yesterday and the versions that went to RC last wednesday morning, is that they all include the security fix for gnutls
[2014/06/12 15:09]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): Merov sure didnt stay long :P
[2014/06/12 15:10]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): But now you can test group ban on LeTigre again
[2014/06/12 15:10]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): whereas it was only available for about 8 hours last wednesday
[2014/06/12 15:10]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): heya simon!
[2014/06/12 15:10]  Simon Linden: Hello :)
[2014/06/12 15:10]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): are there any questions about the updates?
[2014/06/12 15:11]  Rex Cronon: hi simon
[2014/06/12 15:11]  Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Wow 4 lindens, we are honoured
[2014/06/12 15:11]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): (FYI Jenna, another Linden asked a Mole about the RIzal build.. apparently it's about a year old)
[2014/06/12 15:11]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): do hae to sa, the new stats floater from the interest code has at least one nice feature to it
[2014/06/12 15:12]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): say*
[2014/06/12 15:12]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): the dynamicly changing min/max scalling
[2014/06/12 15:12]  Whirly Fizzle: Yeah I like that too
[2014/06/12 15:12]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): ah, for FPS or data received graphs?
[2014/06/12 15:12]  Jenna Felton: oh, thank you Maesteo :) and i havent noticed by now
[2014/06/12 15:12]  Whirly Fizzle: Cept it doesn't remember any settings
[2014/06/12 15:12]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): yeah, meastro
[2014/06/12 15:13]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): yeah, that is nice
[2014/06/12 15:13]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): and they fixed the issue where if you go from full graph to text on the top line, it collapses the entire branch
[2014/06/12 15:13]  Whirly Fizzle: Yeah
[2014/06/12 15:14]  Whirly Fizzle: Not that it remembers your setting for that :P
[2014/06/12 15:14]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, my packets in/out seem high
[2014/06/12 15:15]  Whirly Fizzle: My bandwidth use is high here
[2014/06/12 15:15]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I see ~620pkt/sec in, and ~1120pkt/sec out
[2014/06/12 15:15]  Whirly Fizzle: 300kbps
[2014/06/12 15:15]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): 75/22 here
[2014/06/12 15:15]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I can believe in, but why would out be so high
[2014/06/12 15:15]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): weird.
[2014/06/12 15:15]  arton Rotaru: I have the same numbers
[2014/06/12 15:15]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): as me, arton?
[2014/06/12 15:16]  arton Rotaru: yep
[2014/06/12 15:16]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): i see baker tried to enter the region...
[2014/06/12 15:16]  Nal (nalates.urriah): 60/25
[2014/06/12 15:16]  Simon Linden: Ihave about 50/30
[2014/06/12 15:16]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I wonder if there's a bug in this viewer (I'm using the group ban project viewer)
[2014/06/12 15:16]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): lol
[2014/06/12 15:16]  Whirly Fizzle: 62/36
[2014/06/12 15:16]  arton Rotaru: I'm on MemShine
[2014/06/12 15:16]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): maybe it's conflating packets with bytes or something
[2014/06/12 15:16]  Rex Cronon: try setting renderfarclip to 8m
[2014/06/12 15:16]  Whirly Fizzle: FS tip
[2014/06/12 15:16]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): yeah, im using FS tip as of a few hrs ago, which doesnt have the GB stuff yet
[2014/06/12 15:16]  Nal (nalates.urriah): 3.7.9 (290582) = 60/20
[2014/06/12 15:17]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): 20 packets / second out seems a lot more reasonable
[2014/06/12 15:17]  arton Rotaru: 660 in 1173 out for me
[2014/06/12 15:17]  Rex Cronon: if u no longer get lag than there is something here that your computer tries to draw/download?
[2014/06/12 15:17]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): /me wonders if he and arton are actually spamming the sim that badly
[2014/06/12 15:18]  Simon Linden: do you have a big draw distance?
[2014/06/12 15:18]  arton Rotaru: lol^^
[2014/06/12 15:18]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): 128m for me
[2014/06/12 15:18]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): 1024 big?
[2014/06/12 15:18]  Whirly Fizzle: 200m
[2014/06/12 15:18]  arton Rotaru: 128 for me too
[2014/06/12 15:18]  Simon Linden: I guess that would only affect packets in, I don't think it would do anything to the outward data
[2014/06/12 15:19]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Well, this might be worth checking out later.  I'd be curious to see what this viewer reports in a super quiet, isolated region.
[2014/06/12 15:20]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I suppose we should get started with the test I wanted to do: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group#Interesting_Stuff
[2014/06/12 15:21]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): basically, I set up some test objects which spam a bunch of materials updates using the new materials functions for LSL
[2014/06/12 15:21]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): any materials capable viewer ok to use?
[2014/06/12 15:21]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): yep
[2014/06/12 15:21]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): and we need ALM enabled?
[2014/06/12 15:21]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): it's a 256 prim linkset of default boxes, which continuously sets a unique material on each of the 6 faces of each prim
[2014/06/12 15:22]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I don't think you need it, really
[2014/06/12 15:22]  Jenna Felton: cool, you did what i planed to plan to do, Maesteo :)
[2014/06/12 15:22]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): dont you need ALM to see materials?
[2014/06/12 15:22]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): maybe if some of use ALM, and some don't, that's best
[2014/06/12 15:22]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): yes
[2014/06/12 15:22]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): ok
[2014/06/12 15:22]  Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): ALM on
[2014/06/12 15:22]  Nal (nalates.urriah): I have ALM enabled
[2014/06/12 15:22]  Whirly Fizzle: ALM on here
[2014/06/12 15:22]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): although you'd still get object updates from materials changes
[2014/06/12 15:22]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): okay
[2014/06/12 15:22]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): /me keeps alm enabled on his tablet
[2014/06/12 15:23]  Jenna Felton: i know you need ALM to change and see projectors, but i stil can see material setting with aLM off
[2014/06/12 15:23]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): so first, I have a script which continuously calls llSetLinkPrimtiveParamsFast() on all its faces to change PRIM_TEXTURE on each face to a new unique value
[2014/06/12 15:23]  arton Rotaru: nope you can't
[2014/06/12 15:23]  arton Rotaru: you see legacy bump
[2014/06/12 15:23]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): that's the baseline test.
[2014/06/12 15:24]  256 prim diffuse stress test 1: let's go crazy with 'Water Particle 1'
[2014/06/12 15:24]  256 prim materials stress test 4: let's go crazy with '004_norm'
[2014/06/12 15:24]  256 prim materials stress test 3: let's go crazy with '003_norm'
[2014/06/12 15:25]  256 prim diffuse stress test 2: let's go crazy with 'Water Particle 2'
[2014/06/12 15:25]  arton Rotaru: (oh you mean the settings in the build floater)
[2014/06/12 15:25]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): okay, those 4 red rings around the dance platform are all running the PRIM_TEXTURE stress test
[2014/06/12 15:25]  Jenna Felton: (yes Arton)
[2014/06/12 15:25]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): if you have 'show updates to objects' enabled, you'll see a stream of update particles from them
[2014/06/12 15:26]  arton Rotaru: these lag me badly already lol
[2014/06/12 15:26]  Simon Linden: yeah, those are walking around the objects nicely
[2014/06/12 15:26]  Whirly Fizzle: Yeah I took quite an FPS hit. 70 down to 20
[2014/06/12 15:26]  Simon Linden: The sim is running nice and fast
[2014/06/12 15:26]  Nal (nalates.urriah): I dropped 10 FPS (15-20 now 5-7)
[2014/06/12 15:26]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): oops, this is the PRIM_NORMAL one
[2014/06/12 15:27]  Rex Cronon: there r some people that would really like ot have those:)
[2014/06/12 15:27]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): FPS downed to 10 from 30..
[2014/06/12 15:27]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): yes their fairly aweful, if only because of all the stacked alpha-mapped textures
[2014/06/12 15:27]  Rex Cronon: like to*
[2014/06/12 15:27]  Lucia Nightfire: those are weak in terms of intentional bandwidth targeting, lol
[2014/06/12 15:27]  Lucia Nightfire: ie, kindergarten griefing, lol
[2014/06/12 15:27]  Lucia Nightfire: no offense, Maestro
[2014/06/12 15:27]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): http://pastebin.com/MZAU0UJf  << here's the source if you're curious.  1 script per linkset
[2014/06/12 15:27]  Lucia Nightfire: I know you could lag us all to death if you wanted, lol
[2014/06/12 15:28]  Simon Linden: oh, we can do worse than lagging :)
[2014/06/12 15:28]  arton Rotaru: that's an awful loop lol
[2014/06/12 15:29]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): okay, so Morris has 11-12ms of spare ttime right now
[2014/06/12 15:29]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): my viewer is getting 17fps, and UDP data received is around 780KB/s
[2014/06/12 15:29]  Whirly Fizzle: Bout same here
[2014/06/12 15:29]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): My FPS is 7..
[2014/06/12 15:30]  Lucia Nightfire: min eis 20 fps @ 750kbps
[2014/06/12 15:30]  arton Rotaru: 15 FPS 700 UDP
[2014/06/12 15:30]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): mine is 4.5 and im zoomed into only one of them
[2014/06/12 15:30]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Fps 5.6 UDP 600-800k
[2014/06/12 15:30]  kyleetehkitty: 16 FPS 500-600K
[2014/06/12 15:30]  Whirly Fizzle: You on your tablet Tank?
[2014/06/12 15:30]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): UDP is averaging about 500k
[2014/06/12 15:30]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): yes, whirly
[2014/06/12 15:31]  Lucia Nightfire: I'm using a 760 nvidia
[2014/06/12 15:31]  arton Rotaru: me too
[2014/06/12 15:31]  Whirly Fizzle: 750 Nividia
[2014/06/12 15:31]  Nal (nalates.urriah): 560gtx
[2014/06/12 15:31]  kyleetehkitty: 770
[2014/06/12 15:31]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): UDP is 800K
[2014/06/12 15:31]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): okay.. so that was PRIM_NORMAL
[2014/06/12 15:31]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): GTX760
[2014/06/12 15:31]  Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): 525M nvida 6 FPS 600KB/s
[2014/06/12 15:31]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): the 2nd version that I'll rez is the same,
[2014/06/12 15:32]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): except it sets PRIM_TEXTURE on each face
[2014/06/12 15:32]  Nal (nalates.urriah): If I zoom on just one I drop UDP from 800+/- to 550+/-
[2014/06/12 15:32]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): to a different alpha-blended diffuse texture each time
[2014/06/12 15:32]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): /me derezzes these ones..
[2014/06/12 15:33]  Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): FR now 32
[2014/06/12 15:33]  kyleetehkitty: 47FPS
[2014/06/12 15:33]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): okay, without those horrid test objects, 30FPS and ~160KB/s for me
[2014/06/12 15:33]  Rex Cronon: that loop should be like this: for(iteration=0;iteration<1;)
[2014/06/12 15:33]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): FPS is 12 now with that object gone :P
[2014/06/12 15:33]  Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): 160 KB/s
[2014/06/12 15:33]  Whirly Fizzle: 50 FPS, ~180kbps
[2014/06/12 15:33]  Lucia Nightfire: ^
[2014/06/12 15:33]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): FPS 25 200KB UDP
[2014/06/12 15:33]  Nal (nalates.urriah): 17 fps 180kb/s
[2014/06/12 15:34]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): spare time on morris is.. ~14-15ms
[2014/06/12 15:34]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): okay, let me rez the PRIM_TEXTURE-changing version...
[2014/06/12 15:35]  256 prim diffuse stress test 2: let's go crazy with 'Water Particle 2'
[2014/06/12 15:35]  256 prim diffuse stress test 4: let's go crazy with 'Water Particle 4'
[2014/06/12 15:35]  256 prim diffuse stress test 1: let's go crazy with 'Water Particle 1'
[2014/06/12 15:35]  256 prim diffuse stress test 3: let's go crazy with 'Water Particle 3'
[2014/06/12 15:35]  Lucia Nightfire: the concern is the chop you may or may nto get when attempting to move your camera around in that env more than the concern on server performance imo
[2014/06/12 15:35]  Whirly Fizzle: Hmm not as much of an FPS hit
[2014/06/12 15:35]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): http://pastebin.com/hMWXgLKm
[2014/06/12 15:35]  Lucia Nightfire: as teh server handles it with ease imo
[2014/06/12 15:35]  Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): no not at all
[2014/06/12 15:35]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): getting 10 FPS now on the tablet
[2014/06/12 15:35]  Whirly Fizzle: 30FPS ~1000 kbps
[2014/06/12 15:36]  Nal (nalates.urriah): I've about the same FPS hit 7FPS 900+KB/S
[2014/06/12 15:36]  Whirly Fizzle: Cam position not moved from last test either
[2014/06/12 15:36]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): 20FPS, 1100KB/s for me now
[2014/06/12 15:36]  Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): 27FPS- 950KB/s
[2014/06/12 15:36]  Lord Noob (tankmaster.teichmann): 32 fps on my titan, but thats with shadows enabled to highest quality :P
[2014/06/12 15:36]  Lucia Nightfire: this isn't making the chop my test made on that one test region, heh
[2014/06/12 15:36]  Whirly Fizzle: Only 32 on the titan? Ask for a refund!
[2014/06/12 15:37]  Lucia Nightfire: theres shade under tank's nose I see, lol
[2014/06/12 15:37]  Lord Noob (tankmaster.teichmann): 140 FPS with shadows disabled
[2014/06/12 15:37]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): you may notice that the object updates are coming more quickly now; the scripts run more quickly because they're not being penalized for modifying the table of materials
[2014/06/12 15:37]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): spare time on morris is around 15ms
[2014/06/12 15:37]  arton Rotaru: yeah, fps are better now
[2014/06/12 15:38]  Jenna Felton: i get 5 FPS more than in prevous test
[2014/06/12 15:38]  kyleetehkitty: same here
[2014/06/12 15:38]  arton Rotaru: 19 fps but 900 udp
[2014/06/12 15:38]  Jenna Felton: viewing from the same position
[2014/06/12 15:38]  Nal (nalates.urriah): I get a tiny bit better FPS, was 5-7 not 8-9
[2014/06/12 15:38]  Nal (nalates.urriah): now 8-9
[2014/06/12 15:39]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): 12 FPS and about 1Mbit udp
[2014/06/12 15:39]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): heh, theres a text bug in the stats floater
[2014/06/12 15:39]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, so I think we expected a greater performance hit from materials thrashing than diffuse texture thrashing
[2014/06/12 15:39]  Inara Breen: Around 10fps better here; 24 compared to 14 UDP around the 830kbps mark
[2014/06/12 15:39]  Whirly Fizzle: As far as evil FPS killing griff, this is tame :P
[2014/06/12 15:39]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): it says KB/s, should be Kb/s
[2014/06/12 15:40]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I guess the question is if the difference is enough that materials thrashing needs to be more heavily controlled
[2014/06/12 15:40]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): oops, one of the objects just got autoreturned
[2014/06/12 15:40]  Lord Noob (tankmaster.teichmann): 200-120 fps now :P
[2014/06/12 15:40]  Lucia Nightfire: you should go to that test region where I have 8192 face test objects setup, it should chop your cam movement when its active
[2014/06/12 15:40]  Lord Noob (tankmaster.teichmann): 200-210*
[2014/06/12 15:40]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): all gone now
[2014/06/12 15:41]  arton Rotaru: as much as I don't like any throttles, I would say yes to more control with materials
[2014/06/12 15:41]  Lucia Nightfire: more?
[2014/06/12 15:41]  Lucia Nightfire: why exactly?
[2014/06/12 15:41]  Lord Noob (tankmaster.teichmann): thats interesting, on this system UDP is about 50 Kb/s
[2014/06/12 15:41]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): and on here its about 200
[2014/06/12 15:41]  arton Rotaru: because it laggs badly
[2014/06/12 15:42]  Nal (nalates.urriah): I'm back to 19fps and 140-200KB/s
[2014/06/12 15:42]  Lucia Nightfire: lags what? your viewer? the region?
[2014/06/12 15:42]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I think the problem is more about viewer FPS than anything else
[2014/06/12 15:42]  arton Rotaru: my viewwer indeed
[2014/06/12 15:42]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): why would there be such a difference on the same viewer version on the same network looking at the same thing?
[2014/06/12 15:42]  Whirly Fizzle: Lucia, can you imagine that evil kitty tail with changing materials too? ;)
[2014/06/12 15:42]  Simon Linden: yeah I don't see the server having any trouble
[2014/06/12 15:42]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): the server-side load seems largely controlled by the built-in LSL performance controls
[2014/06/12 15:42]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): it's all running as part of 'script time'
[2014/06/12 15:43]  Lucia Nightfire: that didn't lag me at all, I could rez the same amount of prims and run a lolcube script over them all cause more bandwidth
[2014/06/12 15:43]  arton Rotaru: sure you could
[2014/06/12 15:43]  Lucia Nightfire: in fact I bet only about 200 lolcubes could cause about 8 mpbs
[2014/06/12 15:43]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): bandwidth usage wasn't a big deal, as far as I could see - I had less bw usage with the PRIM_NORMAL one than the PRIM_TEXTURE version
[2014/06/12 15:44]  arton Rotaru: yeah me too
[2014/06/12 15:44]  Rex Cronon: can the isp be blamed 4 the lag?
[2014/06/12 15:44]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and that's expected because there are throttles in place for how quickly the viewer will look up materials properties
[2014/06/12 15:44]  Lucia Nightfire: was that tail a texture or mesh memory problem?
[2014/06/12 15:44]  Rex Cronon: maestro u r too close to ll servers:)
[2014/06/12 15:45]  Lucia Nightfire: idt materials is going to be a viable grief vector imo
[2014/06/12 15:45]  Lucia Nightfire: about all I can generalize
[2014/06/12 15:46]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, I wonder if toggling between different sculpt maps would be a good test
[2014/06/12 15:46]  Lucia Nightfire: I could do more lag or damage with the common laggers or shape changing spam vectors
[2014/06/12 15:46]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): if we're looking at scripts hurting render performance
[2014/06/12 15:46]  arton Rotaru: what's a lolcube script btw?
[2014/06/12 15:47]  Lucia Nightfire: changes colors 10 - 20x a sec
[2014/06/12 15:47]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): or maybe toggling glow and such
[2014/06/12 15:47]  Lord Noob (tankmaster.teichmann): its a made up script
[2014/06/12 15:47]  Lucia Nightfire: its a term for a giref item
[2014/06/12 15:47]  Lucia Nightfire: the earliest term that I know for the particular spam vector
[2014/06/12 15:48]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I've certainly seen objects like that which take my fps down to <1FPS
[2014/06/12 15:48]  Rex Cronon: i saw a version of that script that uses a multicolored image and loads on each face parts of that image
[2014/06/12 15:48]  Lucia Nightfire: thats the efficent method rex
[2014/06/12 15:48]  Lucia Nightfire: not the bandwidth attack
[2014/06/12 15:49]  Lucia Nightfire: its not just a visual attack
[2014/06/12 15:49]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): given that FPS was low but not unusuably low, and that you'd easily be able to identify the problem object by using 'show updates to objects', I'm not sure how useful LSL materials would be to griefers
[2014/06/12 15:49]  Simon Linden: I don't see any show-stopping problems with it
[2014/06/12 15:49]  arton Rotaru: ok, then let's skip a throttle
[2014/06/12 15:49]  Rex Cronon: never tested different versions of that script lucia, so i have no idea wich one is "better" lol
[2014/06/12 15:50]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): For what it's worth, I tried another test with many more copies of that PRIM_NORMAL thrashing object.
[2014/06/12 15:50]  Simon Linden: We'll find out soon enough if we do need one :)
[2014/06/12 15:50]  arton Rotaru: yeah
[2014/06/12 15:50]  Lucia Nightfire: the only question is teh cache size and how many profiles it would take to start causing texture cycling(thrashing)
[2014/06/12 15:50]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): after about 3 copies of that object, my viewer's request rate for materials properties didn't increase, since it was already at the limit
[2014/06/12 15:50]  Lucia Nightfire: but I tested with 8k faces and it didn't cycle any and I think thats a little overkill to begin with
[2014/06/12 15:50]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): well, would that be any different than thrashing with PRIM_TEXTURE, lucia?
[2014/06/12 15:51]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): in either case, the viewer would be trying to download the texture to your cache
[2014/06/12 15:51]  Lucia Nightfire: right, I don't see materials being anything different that whats already availabel
[2014/06/12 15:52]  Jenna Felton: i prefer a delay over a trottle because if i call a command i'd need to know if the command was perfomed
[2014/06/12 15:52]  Lucia Nightfire: its has no new grief vectors that I can see
[2014/06/12 15:52]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): By the way Arton, have you had a chance to script anything 'pretty' with the new functions?
[2014/06/12 15:52]  arton Rotaru: yeah I played a bit with my it
[2014/06/12 15:52]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Our internal test scripts are all ugly normal and specular maps
[2014/06/12 15:53]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): which show an embossed "002" and such
[2014/06/12 15:53]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): not much to look at :-P
[2014/06/12 15:53]  Lucia Nightfire: I updated my shield plates with specularity, but plan on making normal mapped plates later
[2014/06/12 15:54]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): would you script that, lucia?
[2014/06/12 15:54]  Lucia Nightfire: hmm?
[2014/06/12 15:54]  Lucia Nightfire: its already scripted
[2014/06/12 15:54]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I mean, script the specular effect
[2014/06/12 15:54]  Lucia Nightfire: I wanted to add a animated sheen crossing it at random times
[2014/06/12 15:54]  Lucia Nightfire: but
[2014/06/12 15:54]  Lucia Nightfire: theres the issue with all maps following the animation
[2014/06/12 15:55]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, right.
[2014/06/12 15:55]  arton Rotaru: for the girls :p
[2014/06/12 15:55]  Lucia Nightfire: I plan on making a jira requesting all the things we would need for a new animation function
[2014/06/12 15:55]  Whirly Fizzle: Yay
[2014/06/12 15:55]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I believe there's already a request for independent texture animations of diffuse/normal/specular maps
[2014/06/12 15:55]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I'd look for that before you make a new one
[2014/06/12 15:55]  Lucia Nightfire: I did
[2014/06/12 15:55]  Lucia Nightfire: couldn't find it
[2014/06/12 15:55]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): Lucka said Whirly's favorite word...
[2014/06/12 15:55]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, okay
[2014/06/12 15:56]  Lucia Nightfire: and
[2014/06/12 15:56]  Lucia Nightfire: I thought there was one too
[2014/06/12 15:56]  Whirly Fizzle: Oh, I was looking at Artons pretty thing
[2014/06/12 15:56]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I swear I triaged that once.  Though it may be in PATHBUG, SCR, SVC, or BUG
[2014/06/12 15:56]  Lucia Nightfire: but I don't recall it addressing the issue of repeats,offsets,rotations having the option of being honored as well
[2014/06/12 15:56]  Lucia Nightfire: which is also a problem that should be addressed if there is work going to a new function
[2014/06/12 15:57]  Jenna Felton: what is actually is the reason to handle materials differently than normal images. Does the sim also uses the material settings somehow for own needs?
[2014/06/12 15:57]  Jenna Felton: sorry to fall in words..
[2014/06/12 15:58]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Jenna: well, materials have IDs
[2014/06/12 15:58]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): which are unique for each combination of normal+ specular+alpha mode settings
[2014/06/12 15:58]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and the sim manages a table of IDs
[2014/06/12 15:59]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): which are 'refcounted', so you have "3 prim faces have material A, 2 prim faces have material B", etc.
[2014/06/12 15:59]  Jenna Felton: ok
[2014/06/12 15:59]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and when you change the materials properties of a face, the old material is decremented and maybe dereferenced if there are 0 prim faces left with that material ID
[2014/06/12 16:00]  Rex Cronon: what is max size of this table baestro?
[2014/06/12 16:00]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and maybe a new material definition is created if it's a new combination of settings for the sim at that time
[2014/06/12 16:00]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): hm, maybe 150k?
[2014/06/12 16:00]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): 10 faces * 15k prims..
[2014/06/12 16:00]  Rex Cronon: maestro*
[2014/06/12 16:01]  Jenna Felton: i am trying to understand if this is somehow benefical against just using images and values like testure and color and alpha setting on old manner
[2014/06/12 16:01]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Back during the original materials testing, I did make a crazy simstate which had just about the limit
[2014/06/12 16:01]  Jenna Felton: ok
[2014/06/12 16:01]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): anyway, there were concerns that 'thrashing' materials definitions with rapid updates would cause performance issues with the sim
[2014/06/12 16:01]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): but those haven't been the case
[2014/06/12 16:01]  Lucia Nightfire: you can have 30k actual objects rezzed though, :)
[2014/06/12 16:01]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): for the viewer side, there are concerns about thrashing causing issues with render performance
[2014/06/12 16:01]  Lucia Nightfire: 270k faces
[2014/06/12 16:02]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): which I think we did see a bit today
[2014/06/12 16:02]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): I don't understand how exactly that works, so I can't go into much detail there
[2014/06/12 16:02]  Lucia Nightfire: I capitalized on taht aspect when I made my 1.5 billion land impact test
[2014/06/12 16:02]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): yeah, maybe 300k is the table size limit
[2014/06/12 16:03]  Jenna Felton: this means when you leave your tests somewhere up in the sky where nobody looks at, the script will cause the material load even if no none loking on it
[2014/06/12 16:03]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): right, or if the material was set by the build tool originally
[2014/06/12 16:03]  rcdsQueChatLog: State changed.{click me to get the url}
[2014/06/12 16:03]  Rex Cronon: time 4 me to go. tc everybody and have a nice day:)
[2014/06/12 16:04]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): when the viewer first connects to a region, it asks the sim for the full materials table
[2014/06/12 16:04]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): okay, see you Rex
[2014/06/12 16:04]  Inara Breen: Ciao, Rex
[2014/06/12 16:04]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, Rex.
[2014/06/12 16:04]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): actually, it is time for is to adjurn
[2014/06/12 16:04]  Jenna Felton: take care Rex
[2014/06/12 16:04]  Lucia Nightfire: it asks for teh full table?
[2014/06/12 16:04]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): adjourn
[2014/06/12 16:04]  Rex Cronon: bye maestro, jenna, yuzuru
[2014/06/12 16:04]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): yes Lucia
[2014/06/12 16:04]  Lucia Nightfire: how much data is that?
[2014/06/12 16:04]  Simon Linden: Thanks everyone for the testing
[2014/06/12 16:04]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, Maestro.
[2014/06/12 16:05]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, Simon.
[2014/06/12 16:05]  arton Rotaru: thanks you guys
[2014/06/12 16:05]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and if later an object is rezzed which has more materials, the simulator can ask the sim about those additional materials via a POST request
[2014/06/12 16:05]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Lucia: how long is a piece of string?  :)
[2014/06/12 16:05]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): but seriously, here's how you can find out..
[2014/06/12 16:05]  Lucia Nightfire: lol, I didn't know the complete table was sent to a viewer on connecting to the region
[2014/06/12 16:05]  Lucia Nightfire: that may have issues, lol
[2014/06/12 16:06]  Lucia Nightfire: esp if thousands of profiles are present or "were" present
[2014/06/12 16:06]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Lucia, so you can download the table manually
[2014/06/12 16:06]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): if you do Develop->Consoles -> Capabilities info to debug console, the log will spit out the URL for the RenderMaterials capability
[2014/06/12 16:06]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): e.g. RenderMaterials URL is https://sim7016.aditi.lindenlab.com:12043/cap/aef24d3c...
[2014/06/12 16:07]  Lucia Nightfire: I just wonder if I'm taking it the wrong way
[2014/06/12 16:07]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): the table is trimmed if the last object which had that material leaves the region
[2014/06/12 16:07]  Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Good evening all
[2014/06/12 16:08]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): so to fetch the full materials info, you issue a GET request to your RenderMaterials URL
[2014/06/12 16:08]  Lucia Nightfire: as long as I'm not requesting a 10,20,50 MB table of textures that may not be in the region
[2014/06/12 16:08]  Lucia Nightfire: see what I'm getting at? lol
[2014/06/12 16:08]  Lucia Nightfire: sorry if I'm misunderstanding
[2014/06/12 16:08]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): nope, it would only tell you about ones which are currently in the region
[2014/06/12 16:08]  Lucia Nightfire: ok, great
[2014/06/12 16:09]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): so for Morris right now,
[2014/06/12 16:09]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): $ curl -k [RenderMaterials URL] > foo
   % Total    % Received % Xferd  Average Speed   Time    Time     Time  Current
                                  Dload  Upload   Total   Spent    Left  Speed
 100  3597  100  3597    0     0  19810      0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- 19763
[2014/06/12 16:09]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): ^ it's 3.6kB
[2014/06/12 16:09]  Lucia Nightfire: sorry if I missed it too, but what is teh max size that table can be in bytes?
[2014/06/12 16:10]  Lucia Nightfire: and is that the max the viewer will allow too?
[2014/06/12 16:10]  Lucia Nightfire: again sorry for any misunderstanding
[2014/06/12 16:10]  Jenna Felton: 300kb
[2014/06/12 16:10]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, I'm not sure.. the data is compressed with gzip
[2014/06/12 16:10]  Lucia Nightfire: how much data is alooted for a single ID?
[2014/06/12 16:10]  Lucia Nightfire: *alloted
[2014/06/12 16:10]  Lucia Nightfire: 1k?
[2014/06/12 16:10]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): uncompressed I think it got up to a few MB, but compressed it was well under 1MB, as I recall
[2014/06/12 16:11]  Lucia Nightfire: ok
[2014/06/12 16:11]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Hm, I don't know, maybe 120 bytes for a material?  but it's compressed with gzip.
[2014/06/12 16:12]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): 36 bytes for each map UUID, then the rest for XML type framing and storage of the repeats/offsets/rotation parameters
[2014/06/12 16:12]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): how about this for a homework assignment..
[2014/06/12 16:12]  Lucia Nightfire: lol
[2014/06/12 16:13]  Jenna Felton: must the viewer on login or connection to region request the whole table or it is possible to restrict it to objects in range?
[2014/06/12 16:13]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Issue a GET to your RenderMaterials cap, and measure the filesize
[2014/06/12 16:13]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): then make a new material and see how much bigger the cap's GET results became :)
[2014/06/12 16:13]  Lucia Nightfire: what Jenna said was more close to what I was concerned with
[2014/06/12 16:13]  Lucia Nightfire: instead of teh whole table, only what I'm actually seeing
[2014/06/12 16:14]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Um, I suppose you could somehow configure your viewer to never issue a GET, and instead do a POST to learn about materials for objects as they come into view
[2014/06/12 16:14]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): it would definitely be a lot slower and probably use a whole lot more bandwidth, though
[2014/06/12 16:14]  Lucia Nightfire: atm it "seems" liek it shouldn't be a concern, but I wasn't thinkign of the potential for extreme abuse if the entire table is loaded on region connection instead of what I'm actually seeing
[2014/06/12 16:15]  Jenna Felton: its because i could just visit a little shop in the skybox and leave the sim after it
[2014/06/12 16:15]  Lucia Nightfire: but it probably wouldnt' rival the other grief vectors in the same extremes anyway
[2014/06/12 16:16]  Lucia Nightfire: that is also true, Jenna
[2014/06/12 16:16]  Lucia Nightfire: this will be mroe of a concern of wasted bandwidth the mroe materials are used
[2014/06/12 16:16]  Jenna Felton: yes
[2014/06/12 16:16]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Lucia, to put this in perspective, that 'extremely large materials table' case would still have about as much data as a 1024x1024 texture or two
[2014/06/12 16:17]  Jenna Felton: ok
[2014/06/12 16:17]  Lucia Nightfire: great, lo
[2014/06/12 16:17]  Lucia Nightfire: *lol
[2014/06/12 16:17]  Lucia Nightfire: I guess that eases my worries
[2014/06/12 16:17]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): so turn off textures if you're really concerned :)
[2014/06/12 16:17]  Jenna Felton: i think i download megabytes on data while standing on sim :)
[2014/06/12 16:18]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): and set your draw distance to 32m so you don't get many object updates
[2014/06/12 16:18]  Jenna Felton: so, probably that doesnt mater
[2014/06/12 16:18]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): with a FOV of 30 degrees, so you see barely nothing :)
[2014/06/12 16:18]  Lucia Nightfire: yeah, Maestro put it in the proper perspective
[2014/06/12 16:18]  Lucia Nightfire: shouldn't be a concern
[2014/06/12 16:18]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Okay, time to get going
[2014/06/12 16:18]  Lucia Nightfire: yes, lol
[2014/06/12 16:18]  Jenna Felton: yes
[2014/06/12 16:18]  Lucia Nightfire: thanks again
[2014/06/12 16:19]  Jenna Felton: that was good meeting
[2014/06/12 16:19]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Please turn in your homework assignment at the beginning of next week's SBUG
[2014/06/12 16:19]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, Maestro.
[2014/06/12 16:19]  Lucia Nightfire: I need to mark those jiras as info provided too
[2014/06/12 16:19]  Mæstro Linden (maestro.linden): Okay, see you guys next week!
[2014/06/12 16:19]  Lucia Nightfire: and I guess theres nto much you could do for that one
[2014/06/12 16:19]  Jenna Felton: thank you for it, and have a great weekend, all of oyu
[2014/06/12 16:19]  Lucia Nightfire: later