Bug triage/2007-09-12/Transcript

Agenda

Transcript of Bridie Linden's office hours:

[15:00]	Bridie Linden:	howdy Inara
[15:00]	Bridie Linden:	Hey everyone!
[15:00]	Inara Marquette:	lol yes but I escaped :)
[15:00]	Daedalus Young:	ho Torley
[15:00]	Daedalus Young:	hi
[15:00]	Daedalus Young:	I mean
[15:00]	Daedalus Young:	hi Ciaran
[15:00]	Inara Marquette:	Torley <3 Hiyas
[15:00]	WarKirby Magojiro:	need to relog
[15:00]	WarKirby Magojiro:	brb
[15:00]	Bridie Linden:	Hiyas, what up!
[15:01]	Torley Linden sees the aerial mollusk form of Joshua float across the room.
[15:01]	Bridie Linden:	:D
[15:01]	Daedalus Young:	the only way is up
[15:01]	Bridie Linden:	Daedalus: http://blogs.zdnet.com/images/herding%20cats.jpg
[15:01]	Bridie Linden:	Pathfinder first got me hooked on that herding cats thing.
[15:01]	Daedalus Young:	hehe fun
[15:01]	Daedalus Young:	:P
[15:01]	Bridie Linden:	Apparently, I'm a better person because of it. :)
[15:01]	Daedalus Young:	hi Aric
[15:01]	Bridie Linden:	Hey Aric
[15:02]	Bridie Linden:	Heya Aric!
[15:02]	Bridie Linden:	Hey Torley!
[15:02]	Inara Marquette:	Hi Aric
[15:02]	Bridie Linden:	We'll wait another min or 2...
[15:02]	Aric Linden:	g'day all
[15:02]	Aric Linden:	Torley, I can't imagine a better you. You're the best you evah
[15:02]	Bridie Linden:	Oh Hey Joshua - I didn't see ya over there
[15:02]	Daedalus Young:	hi Kooky
[15:02]	Kooky Jetaime:	Dae
[15:03]	Inara Marquette:	Hey Kooky
[15:03]	Bridie Linden:	Torley, will you be my PJIRA jockey and update wiki? or shall i do latter, later?
[15:03]	Daedalus Young:	cool av though
[15:03]	WarKirby Magojiro:	mollusk...
[15:03]	Bridie Linden:	Hi WarKirby, Kooky
[15:03]	Bridie Linden:	Ok, a few obligatory announcments :)
[15:04]	Kooky Jetaime:	Birdy
[15:04]	Inara Marquette:	lol wow Joshua thats impressive :) and creepy. I can't stop looking at you Help!
[15:04]	Kooky Jetaime:	Birdie
[15:04]	Bridie Linden:	First off, welcome all!
[15:04]	Bridie Linden:	Awww thanks Aric.
[15:04]	Bridie Linden:	Bridie, yes, I will jockey!
[15:04]	Bridie Linden:	Welcome to my weekly triage -- formerly the Viewer Crashes triage, now the Release Candidate triage.
[15:04]	Bridie Linden:	Of course, we can still go over crashes or any other important issues, but I'd ask that you add them to the agenda before we meet.
[15:04]	Ciaran Laval:	What the heck is an orange teddy bear doing here? Am i having a Frank Rabbit type moment or is that thing real?
[15:04]	WarKirby Magojiro is using the RC, but Nicholaz Enhanced
[15:05]	Bridie Linden:	I've updated the agenda for this afternoon: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/Wednesday_Agenda
[15:05]	Daedalus Young:	that's Bridie's Bear
[15:05]	Bridie Linden:	(That's my Linden Bear Ciaran)
[15:05]	WarKirby Magojiro:	Can someone link the agenda ?
[15:05]	Bridie Linden:	Haha that's the best reaction to Bridie's bear I've heard yet.
[15:05]	Kooky Jetaime:	18xJ here too.
[15:05]	Daedalus Young:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/Wednesday_Agenda
[15:05]	Bridie Linden:	I *think* I'm up to date on the latest RC 1.18.3 issues: https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId=10631
[15:05]	Bridie Linden:	So, what I'd like to do today is go over the issues listed in "Not new in RC 1.18.3, NOT Imported".
[15:05]	Bridie Linden:	Scroll down the agenda page...
[15:05]	Bridie Linden:	Let's see which ones *should* be imported.
[15:05]	Daedalus Young:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/Wednesday_Agenda#Not_new_in_RC_1.18.3.2C_NOT_Imported
[15:05]	Bridie Linden:	Sound good?
[15:06]	Bridie Linden:	Okay ah VWR-2422 looks like a dupe off the bat.
[15:06]	Aric Linden yups
[15:06]	Daedalus Young:	yes, I can remember it from another issue too
[15:07]	Bridie Linden:	Sec... I'll link 'em...
[15:07]	Bridie Linden:	Dupe of https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1448.
[15:07]	WarKirby Magojiro:	hmm
[15:07]	Bridie Linden:	Argh, I didn't mean to put a period after that -- https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1448
[15:07]	Bridie Linden:	Great, Thx Torley
[15:07]	WarKirby Magojiro:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1132
[15:07]	WarKirby Magojiro:	Planar mapping is distorted
[15:08]	Bridie Linden:	Which list are you looking @ WarKirby?
[15:08]	Kooky Jetaime:	1132
[15:08]	WarKirby Magojiro:	the page that was just linked
[15:08]	WarKirby Magojiro:	sorted by LL issue id
[15:09]	WarKirby Magojiro:	release candidate bugs
[15:09]	Bridie Linden:	Looks like next on our list is VWR-2266 on the agenda wiki page?
[15:09]	WarKirby Magojiro:	though it's not relly a viewer specific thing
[15:09]	Bridie Linden:	Sorry we're using wiki agenda page
[15:09]	Daedalus Young:	it's on the not new not imported list too, has the most votes
[15:09]	WarKirby Magojiro:	ah .Can someone post a liink to it ?
[15:09]	Bridie Linden:	I see it, but would like to go in order of wiki page - ok?
[15:09]	Daedalus Young:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/Wednesday_Agenda#Not_new_in_RC_1.18.3.2C_NOT_Imported
[15:10]	Bridie Linden:	Thx Daed
[15:10]	Daedalus Young:	we'll get there anyway
[15:10]	WarKirby Magojiro:	thank you
[15:10]	Bridie Linden nods
[15:10]	Bridie Linden:	APologies for confusion
[15:10]	Bridie Linden:	Many links!
[15:10]	Daedalus Young:	links with anchors
[15:10]	Bridie Linden:	lol
[15:10]	Bridie Linden:	Ok, VWR-2266 - Votes: 0 - Friends list in Communicate window still shows (waiting) after 20 mins online
[15:10]	Bridie Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2266
[15:10]	Daedalus Young:	sounds like network issue
[15:11]	Bridie Linden:	I've definitely seen that on occasion.
[15:11]	Daedalus Young:	like sometimes the L$ balance remains Loading
[15:11]	Bridie Linden:	Sometimes cleared up after a relog.
[15:11]	Kooky Jetaime:	I've seen that pre-voice
[15:11]	Kooky Jetaime:	So its not anything new
[15:11]	Bridie Linden:	I've seen it for awhile too. *nods*
[15:11]	Daedalus Young:	when the servers are dying usually
[15:11]	Bridie Linden:	QA was unable to repro however...
[15:11]	Kooky Jetaime:	Wonder if it has anything to do with the same reason you see (???) in groups
[15:11]	Daedalus Young:	yes, I think it's the same Kooky
[15:11]	Mercia McMahon:	I only ever saw that in the Communicate Window so not pre-Voice for me
[15:11]	Bridie Linden:	Yeah... I wonder that too, Kooky -- it's one of those intermittent things.
[15:12]	WarKirby Magojiro:	never seen this one
[15:12]	Kooky Jetaime:	Might be worth linking and seeing what could potentially cause both of those issues
[15:12]	Kooky Jetaime:	probably same thing
[15:12]	Bridie Linden:	Kooky, do you remember the # of the other issue?
[15:12]	Kooky Jetaime:	Not a clue..
[15:12]	Mercia McMahon:	afk
[15:12]	Kooky Jetaime:	never pjira'ed it..
[15:12]	Bridie Linden:	I realize PJIRA isn't good at searching for "???".
[15:12]	Kooky Jetaime:	"Missing group name" ?
[15:13]	Aric Linden:	problem is that we want repros in order to move things into dev
[15:13]	WarKirby Magojiro:	hippos :)
[15:13]	Daedalus Young:	misc-582 says google
[15:13]	Aric Linden grins at WarKirby
[15:13]	Kooky Jetaime:	I understand Aric, but some things just arn't reproable on demand...
[15:13]	Bridie Linden:	Nice find Daedalus! Hey I should use Google more.
[15:13]	Aric Linden:	hey, you tell that to the linden devs
[15:13]	Aric Linden:	/grins
[15:13]	Daedalus Young:	site:jira.secondlife.com as extra search query
[15:13]	Kooky Jetaime:	Sure...
[15:13]	Bridie Linden:	Thanks!
[15:13]	WarKirby Magojiro:	unreproducible issues are very problematic
[15:14]	Bridie Linden:	OK, and MISC-582 is dupe of VWR-882...
[15:14]	Kooky Jetaime:	Usually the non-reproable things are the more needy to be resolved.
[15:14]	Kooky Jetaime:	heh
[15:14]	Daedalus Young:	Gigs is working on lag and network issues though
[15:14]	Daedalus Young:	has a test suite for it
[15:14]	Aric Linden:	agrees with Kooky
[15:14]	Daedalus Young:	hi Alexa
[15:14]	Bridie Linden:	I think keep this VWR-2266 open for now and receptive for future info?
[15:14]	Alexa Linden:	hey all :)
[15:14]	Bridie Linden:	Hey Alexa, I've liked reading your PJIRA comments!
[15:14]	Kooky Jetaime:	Ok, maybe someone can answer this: When you edit an item, and it shows its group name, where does that information come from? Sim or local cache?
[15:14]	Alexa Linden:	:P thanks
[15:15]	Alexa Linden:	trying to get things cleaned up a bit
[15:15]	Daedalus Young:	I think it's downloaded, sometimes takes a while for it shows up
[15:15]	Kooky Jetaime:	Because I've seen the (???) in my group list, and in active edit windows when I grabbed something. I've seen it in "About Land" boxes as well
[15:15]	Bridie Linden:	Bridie crashed, she's coming back.
[15:15]	WarKirby Magojiro:	oh
[15:16]	WarKirby Magojiro:	which issue are we on atm ?
[15:16]	Kooky Jetaime:	For awhile, I thought the group itself was corrupted somehow
[15:16]	Saijanai Kuhn:	UUID is checked against server, I blieve
[15:16]	Kooky Jetaime:	wb Birdie
[15:16]	Daedalus Young:	wb Bridie
[15:16]	Alexa Linden:	WB Bridie :)
[15:16]	Bridie Linden:	Kooky: Yeah, that might be a more serious problem.
[15:16]	Bridie Linden:	are we still on 2266?
[15:16]	Kooky Jetaime:	I don't think the group exists anymore, but it was "Dark City Urban Ruins"
[15:16]	Bridie Linden:	Yes Bridie.
[15:16]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I'm seeing unknown in object creator/ owner spaces sometimes
[15:17]	Daedalus Young:	yes, me too
[15:17]	Bridie Linden:	I suggest leaving VWR-2266 open for more feedback...
[15:17]	Bridie Linden:	Internally VWR-882 is assigned to Milo to check out too.
[15:17]	Bridie Linden nods
[15:17]	Bridie Linden:	(Related issues.)
[15:17]	Daedalus Young:	although Profile button then still worked
[15:17]	Kooky Jetaime:	I've noticed that I don't see the Creator anymore when I edit someones attachments.. I swore I used to always before
[15:17]	Bridie Linden:	Kooky: I don't ever recall that.
[15:17]	Bridie Linden:	That's one of my long pet peeves. :)
[15:18]	WarKirby Magojiro:	oh
[15:18]	WarKirby Magojiro:	you're right, we don't
[15:18]	Kooky Jetaime:	Torley - It used to because thats how I found out who made stuff for awhile, before I turned into an "inspect" junkie
[15:18]	WarKirby Magojiro:	that's annoying
[15:18]	Aric Linden:	So what shall we do with this one?
[15:18]	Alexa Linden:	I don't recall seeing it unless it was placed on the ground.. not attached
[15:18]	Bridie Linden:	Ok, next up...
[15:18]	Bridie Linden:	Alexa: Same here.
[15:18]	Bridie Linden:	Aric, I think we just said to not import 2266
[15:18]	Bridie Linden:	Gather more info, yes?
[15:18]	Bridie Linden:	*nod*
[15:18]	Bridie Linden:	Link to other issues?
[15:18]	Bridie Linden:	Already linked.
[15:18]	Bridie Linden:	To VWR-882.
[15:18]	Bridie Linden:	So next is, /555 VWR-2302
[15:18]	WarKirby Magojiro:	any linden can operate the urler with /555 issue number
[15:19]	Bridie Linden:	Hmmm...
[15:19]	Daedalus Young:	chat channel 555
[15:19]	Bridie Linden:	Sounds like this fellow has done a lot.
[15:19]	Kooky Jetaime snickers
[15:19]	Bridie Linden:	did that work?
[15:19]	Aric Linden:	I wonder if this is a dutch machine or an english machine
[15:19]	WarKirby Magojiro nods
[15:19]	Bridie Linden is trying to use WarKirby's cool urler (see spinning logo)
[15:19]	Aric Linden:	The drivers might be different for the different os's
[15:19]	Bridie Linden:	Click on it
[15:20]	WarKirby Magojiro:	is the card supported?
[15:20]	Bridie Linden:	Yes, this card is supported.
[15:20]	WarKirby Magojiro:	hmm
[15:20]	Kooky Jetaime:	Birdie, why not move it over your bear so its not hidden to one side of the room
[15:20]	Bridie Linden:	From the driver name, it looks correct.
[15:21]	WarKirby Magojiro:	if a supported card is't working, that seems like something that needs importing
[15:21]	Bridie Linden:	Looks like he provided logs too...
[15:21]	Daedalus Young:	hmm, something could be corrupted
[15:21]	Aric Linden:	whoa, torley, what do you mean about the driver looking correct?
[15:21]	Aric Linden:	I see that he's using the international version
[15:21]	Bridie Linden:	Aric, I was wondering about your earlier comment, and in the description, it says "winxp" -- which appears to be correct for the XP SP2 that he's running.
[15:22]	Bridie Linden:	I wonder what happens if he tries older driver versions.
[15:22]	Aric Linden:	ahh. look at the rest of the string
[15:22]	Aric Linden:	it's an international version
[15:22]	Aric Linden:	it appears to me that he's running a native Dutch version of XP
[15:22]	Aric Linden:	I wonder what would happen if he updated to the "american" drivers
[15:22]	Daedalus Young:	pesky Dutch
[15:23]	Bridie Linden:	On NVIDIA.com it says: "Users without English US operating systems must download and install the International Driver available on our International Sites listed below:"
[15:23]	Aric Linden:	yep. and those drivers may be a release behind in support
[15:23]	Aric Linden:	if you see what I mean.
[15:23]	Bridie Linden:	Sounds worth asking that he try 162.18_forceware_winxp_32bit_english_whql.exe then, eh?
[15:23]	Aric Linden:	/nods
[15:24]	Aric Linden:	that's what I'm wondering. I suspect it'll work
[15:24]	Mercia McMahon:	usually it means that the international version includes things the NSA do not allow in the US
[15:24]	Aric Linden:	if the chip will allow that update
[15:24]	Bridie Linden:	Shall we resolve back to Oberon?
[15:24]	Bridie Linden:	*makes a comment* Thanks Aric...
[15:24]	WarKirby Magojiro:	what could you include in a graphics driver that the NSA don't like ?
[15:24]	Bridie Linden:	Yeah, Needs More Info + my comment.
[15:24]	Aric Linden:	np. it's why i'm here
[15:24]	Bridie Linden:	:D
[15:24]	Bridie Linden:	Teamwork!
[15:24]	Bridie Linden:	Great.
[15:24]	Aric Linden:	HOORAH for teamwork
[15:24]	Bridie Linden:	Moving right along...
[15:25]	Bridie Linden:	Click on SL logo please
[15:25]	WarKirby Magojiro:	oh
[15:25]	WarKirby Magojiro:	this has happened to me a ferw times
[15:25]	WarKirby Magojiro:	seemed to be isolated incidents, though
[15:25]	Bridie Linden:	on Linux
[15:26]	Bridie Linden:	I haven't come across this myself.
[15:26]	Daedalus Young:	maybe happens when IM thingy opens
[15:26]	Daedalus Young:	I saw an issue (and experience it myself) where group IM slows down framerate
[15:26]	London Roff:	hello everyone
[15:26]	Aric Linden:	hi London
[15:27]	Bridie Linden:	Heya London.
[15:27]	Daedalus Young:	and have had crashes on profiles opening
[15:27]	Bridie Linden:	Hi London - we're triagin' away here...
[15:27]	Aric Linden:	i'm wondering what the steps for repro might be
[15:27]	Daedalus Young:	and other dialogs
[15:27]	London Roff:	howz it going?
[15:27]	Bridie Linden:	This is disturbing "On next restart I send in a bug report and the first attempt to log in reports "Region Restart" so I have to try again. "
[15:27]	Aric Linden:	since I frequently have many IM's queued for me when I login
[15:27]	Bridie Linden:	Does that suggest that he crashed the region?
[15:27]	Daedalus Young:	I think he means with that the isn't logged out properly
[15:27]	WarKirby Magojiro:	Likewise. Losing those would be most worrysome
[15:27]	Daedalus Young:	often happens when you crash and relog quickly
[15:28]	Alexa Linden:	/agrees
[15:28]	WarKirby Magojiro:	one a similar note, we could really do with a way to know who IMed recently
[15:28]	Aric Linden:	My suggestion would be that he try setting his default arrival spot to a new location
[15:28]	Daedalus Young:	I log my IMs
[15:28]	WarKirby Magojiro does too
[15:28]	Bridie Linden:	Yeah, maybe it's a particularly troublesome region that's coinciding, eh?
[15:28]	London Roff:	how do you do that aric?
[15:28]	Daedalus Young:	can easily find them back
[15:28]	Bridie Linden:	Good suggestion -
[15:28]	London Roff:	i crash alot too
[15:28]	WarKirby Magojiro:	edit > Preferences > general > start location
[15:29]	Daedalus Young:	you can also have your start location on the login screen
[15:29]	Aric Linden:	London, when you launch second life, before you click on the connect button, you can reset the location popup
[15:29]	WarKirby Magojiro:	it's pretty intuitive from there
[15:29]	Bridie Linden:	Can someone add that as a comment?
[15:29]	Aric Linden looks at daedalus
[15:29]	Bridie Linden:	Please?
[15:29]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I will
[15:29]	Bridie Linden:	I already added it, sorry!
[15:29]	Bridie Linden:	*blush*
[15:29]	London Roff:	cool
[15:29]	Bridie Linden:	Thx WarKirby - er Torley!
[15:29]	London Roff:	ty
[15:29]	Daedalus Young:	ahh
[15:29]	Bridie Linden:	Now we're onto VWR-1132
[15:30]	Kooky Jetaime:	Warkirby - what do you mean, who IMed recently?
[15:30]	Bridie Linden:	Rocking on...
[15:30]	WarKirby Magojiro:	For example, a list of all people who you had IMs with in the las x sessions
[15:30]	Kooky Jetaime:	oh
[15:30]	WarKirby Magojiro:	so that in the event of crashing, you could look at the list and continue the conversation with them
[15:30]	Kooky Jetaime:	I should add in a region history to the jira..
[15:30]	Daedalus Young:	just like the bumps & pushes
[15:30]	Bridie Linden:	Hmmm... well about VWR-1132, I'd ask Runitai Linden about this, he added it.
[15:30]	WarKirby Magojiro nmdos
[15:31]	Bridie Linden:	By "it" I mean "planar mapping"...
[15:31]	Bridie Linden:	this may be how it's designed to work, actually...
[15:31]	Kooky Jetaime:	Perhaps a "Save IM States across sessions" option War?
[15:31]	WarKirby Magojiro:	A planar mapping
[15:31]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I used that in making my armor and shoes
[15:31]	Aric Linden:	agrees with torley
[15:31]	Daedalus Young:	I never used "it" anyway
[15:31]	WarKirby Magojiro:	VERY frustrating to work with
[15:31]	Kooky Jetaime:	I use it
[15:31]	Daedalus Young:	results seem odd
[15:31]	Bridie Linden:	Sadly we don't have better documentation about this, there were forum threads a long time ago.
[15:31]	WarKirby Magojiro:	is there some logic to the strange pattern it creates?
[15:31]	Kooky Jetaime:	never got why the Repeats per meter seemed to be mulitplied x10 though
[15:31]	Bridie Linden:	Sound good to import this and assign to Runitai for further know-how?
[15:32]	Daedalus Young:	hm yes, but forum is off limits for poor me :P
[15:32]	WarKirby Magojiro ndos
[15:32]	Bridie Linden:	Works for me - Runitai will provide insight
[15:32]	Bridie Linden:	Thanks! *imports*
[15:32]	Daedalus Young:	sounds like a tip of the week ;)
[15:32]	Fremont Cunningham:	Isnt planar mapping onto a curved surface rather like asking for safe dynamite?
[15:32]	Bridie Linden:	Haha Daedalus.
[15:32]	Bridie Linden:	Ha
[15:32]	Alexa Linden:	lol
[15:33]	Bridie Linden:	Be careful when handling!
[15:33]	Bridie Linden:	Next up VWR-1132
[15:33]	Aric Linden:	hmmms
[15:33]	Bridie Linden:	oops
[15:33]	Ciaran Laval:	Didn't we just do that?
[15:33]	WarKirby Magojiro:	we just did 1132
[15:33]	Aric Linden:	it'd be swell to have steps for this
[15:33]	WarKirby Magojiro:	: )
[15:33]	WarKirby Magojiro:	steps for what ?
[15:33]	Aric Linden:	like, you know, do this, do this, see that
[15:33]	Bridie Linden:	Let's try that again: VWR-2386
[15:33]	Aric Linden:	2386
[15:33]	Ciaran Laval:	I've seen this
[15:33]	Daedalus Young:	this also sometimes happens to 'normal' textures, I think
[15:34]	Daedalus Young:	and by normal, I don't mean 3D normals
[15:34]	Ciaran Laval:	It seems to intermittently become shapeless goo
[15:34]	Aric Linden:	torley, do you think it might be worth my time to write a blog entry on writing useful bugs?
[15:34]	Aric Linden:	I know it's in the wiki, but...
[15:34]	Aric Linden:	what do you think?
[15:34]	WarKirby Magojiro:	is this LOD related, perhaps ?
[15:34]	Daedalus Young:	I know sometimes when the map is opened it reloadds the textures
[15:34]	Bridie Linden:	Torley wrote a great blog post on that Aric
[15:34]	Ciaran Laval:	I think Torley's tips should be linked better from the main page in a section all of their own
[15:35]	Bridie Linden:	Aric: Yeah, what Bridie said, but by all means, if you can improve the wiki documentation and do a refresher, that would be AWESOME... this kind of things need to keep being reminded of...
[15:35]	Bridie Linden:	http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/07/05/how-to-report-bugs-better/
[15:35]	Aric Linden:	/nods.
[15:35]	Bridie Linden:	Thanks.
[15:35]	Aric Linden:	I'm sorry I never read your posting.
[15:35]	Bridie Linden:	No worries!
[15:35]	Bridie Linden:	That just means we gotta make that info more visible. =)
[15:35]	Aric Linden now feels terrible and wants to hide
[15:35]	Ciaran Laval:	They get lost too quickly from the blog, that post deserved a sticky somewhere
[15:35]	Bridie Linden:	Ciaran: Right now the Video Tutorials have a link from the very front secondlife.com and I agree that more exposure is needed.
[15:35]	WarKirby Magojiro:	:)
[15:36]	Bridie Linden:	Awwwe! Don't feel so bad Aric! S'okay! =)
[15:36]	Bridie Linden:	The funny thing is that I usually mention it here too.
[15:36]	Bridie Linden:	:)
[15:36]	Aric Linden:	grins
[15:36]	Bridie Linden:	Ironies!
[15:36]	WarKirby Magojiro:	Hi Q
[15:36]	London Roff:	can i ask something else?
[15:36]	Mercia McMahon:	btw is a community-editable wiki the best place for issue posting guidelines? It allows someone to put in their pet theiry even when it is not LL policy (e.g., do not report log-in failures)
[15:36]	Aric Linden:	speaking of which, it'd be swell if this issue had steps for a repro
[15:36]	Bridie Linden:	But I stopped b/c this crowd has regular folks showing up
[15:36]	Q Linden:	hi, all
[15:36]	Aric Linden:	Hi Q
[15:36]	Bridie Linden:	Hey Q Linden!
[15:36]	Bridie Linden:	Mercia: We can lock/protect pages if necessary.
[15:36]	Bridie Linden:	Yo Q!
[15:36]	Daedalus Young:	hi Q
[15:37]	Bridie Linden:	I'd say let's resolve 2386 as 'needs more info' and ask for a repro
[15:37]	WarKirby Magojiro:	minimalist name
[15:37]	London Roff:	whatdo i need to make stuff.....like i was thinking about making clothes....do i need a certain program?
[15:37]	Ciaran Laval:	Just rez\ a sculptie chair somewhere, if I still had my store where the guy had this I'd be able to show you
[15:37]	Daedalus Young:	one of the 26 most minimalist Lindens
[15:37]	Bridie Linden:	Sounds good to me, Bridie.
[15:37]	Alexa Linden:	lol
[15:37]	Aric Linden:	giggles at daedalus
[15:37]	WarKirby Magojiro:	This isn't a good place to learn basic things, London
[15:38]	Bridie Linden:	Ok, moving right along...VWR-2351
[15:38]	London Roff:	oh ok
[15:38]	London Roff:	didnt know that was basic lol
[15:38]	Bridie Linden:	VWR-2351 will be touched by the WindLight Graphics Preferences simplification.
[15:38]	Bridie Linden:	I suggest importing this and assigning to Runitai or Steve.
[15:39]	WarKirby Magojiro:	seems good
[15:39]	Bridie Linden:	I was thinking maybe 'won't fix' as it WILL be fixed in a future release...
[15:39]	WarKirby Magojiro:	how about fixed internally, then
[15:39]	Daedalus Young:	hm, I think the main issue is that you expect a hover tip to give additional info on what the feature does
[15:39]	Bridie Linden:	(For context, we think the Preferences > Graphics tabs are way too unwieldy and confusing, and we're going to provide a streamlined slider to move many controls at once, but allow the current "power user" way too.
[15:39]	WarKirby Magojiro:	that's more logically sound
[15:39]	Kooky Jetaime:	if its going to be fixed, don't do "Won't Fix"
[15:39]	Daedalus Young:	but you'll see other functions don't have tips at all
[15:39]	Kooky Jetaime:	I hate "Won't Fix"
[15:39]	Bridie Linden:	I think it still needs to be tracked because technically we haven't made this VBO wording change yet.
[15:40]	Daedalus Young:	it's not Won't Fix, it's Won't Finish :P
[15:40]	Bridie Linden:	Fair enough Torley
[15:40]	Bridie Linden:	Just something to keep in mind when we DO do it. :)
[15:40]	Bridie Linden:	=)
[15:40]	Bridie Linden:	Good discussion!
[15:40]	Bridie Linden nods to Daedalus
[15:40]	Bridie Linden:	*imports*
[15:40]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I'd vote for fixed internally, or assigning to steve
[15:40]	Kooky Jetaime:	To me "Won't Fix" means it works "As Is" if anything changes it should be closed some other way.
[15:40]	Kooky Jetaime:	Oh, assigned to "WorkingOnIt Linden" perhaps?
[15:41]	Kooky Jetaime:	I'm guessing thats not a "real" person?
[15:41]	Bridie Linden:	Yes, good suggestion.
[15:41]	WarKirby Magojiro:	it's a utility account that all lindens can use
[15:41]	Daedalus Young:	just like Governor
[15:41]	Kooky Jetaime:	good.. if that was one person, I'd say give that person a raise since he's getting all the crap.
[15:41]	Bridie Linden:	Though we do have a Which Linden...
[15:41]	Daedalus Young:	is it not?
[15:41]	WarKirby Magojiro:	governor is too ?
[15:41]	Kooky Jetaime chuckles
[15:41]	Bridie Linden:	"WorkingOnIt Linden" is explained in bigger detail on the Issue Tracker info-page, but it's a general "group" account.
[15:41]	Bridie Linden:	Which Linden is a real person.
[15:41]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I always thought Governor Linden was philip's alt
[15:42]	Bridie Linden:	Next, VWR-2367
[15:42]	Kooky Jetaime:	I see a blockhead
[15:42]	Kooky Jetaime:	Hi Poppy!
[15:42]	Bridie Linden:	Governor Linden is mainly used by Land + Concierge Teams nowadays.
[15:42]	Ciaran Laval:	This is a fun one
[15:42]	Bridie Linden:	Hey Poppy
[15:42]	Bridie Linden:	No testing crashing here
[15:42]	Poppy Linden:	hello
[15:42]	Daedalus Young:	hi Poppy
[15:42]	Ciaran Laval:	It won't just be Japanese this effects then
[15:42]	Aric Linden:	afk
[15:42]	Poppy Linden:	i am here to test a crash around avatars, don't mind me
[15:43]	Kooky Jetaime snickers
[15:43]	Kooky Jetaime:	Bridie said No..
[15:43]	Kooky Jetaime:	d
[15:43]	Q Linden:	we trust you mean a viewer crash
[15:43]	WarKirby Magojiro:	internationalisation issue ?
[15:43]	Bridie Linden grimaces @ Poppy
[15:43]	Bridie Linden:	:)
[15:43]	Bridie Linden:	:O
[15:43]	Daedalus Young:	this is not crash triage anymore
[15:43]	Kooky Jetaime:	What kind of crash?
[15:43]	Ciaran Laval:	It's to do with how UTF-8 encodes character sets
[15:43]	Alexa Linden:	hahaha
[15:43]	Kooky Jetaime:	Ok, if the sim goes down, meet a poppys place :D
[15:43]	Fremont Cunningham:	Looks like an excellent bug report to me. Bad string lengths.
[15:43]	Ciaran Laval:	Only needs 1 byte for US Ascii but more for Greek and Japanese
[15:43]	Bridie Linden:	Looks like VWR-2367 has good info to import?
[15:43]	Bridie Linden:	Thanks Fremont, I felt the same way.
[15:44]	Alexa Linden:	I'll TP Poppy's trees
[15:44]	Bridie Linden:	Was anyone @ Aric's triage on Monday - Aric? didn't we discuss a similar issue?
[15:44]	Aric Linden:	sorry, talking to someone IRL
[15:44]	Aric Linden:	brb
[15:44]	Daedalus Young:	I can remember something like that yes
[15:44]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I've lost count of the issues involving texty display
[15:45]	Fremont Cunningham:	Generall any user entered string size needs to be 3x the number of characters allowed. As opposed to the old english 1x
[15:45]	Daedalus Young:	oh, I think you mean https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-437
[15:45]	Bridie Linden looks for related issue
[15:45]	Ciaran Laval:	I don't know how you can resolve this
[15:45]	Daedalus Young:	llSetObjDescription and editor panel have different description string length limits
[15:45]	Bridie Linden:	Yes! That's the one Daedalus
[15:45]	Daedalus Young:	that we discussed Monday
[15:45]	WarKirby Magojiro:	ah, yes
[15:45]	Kooky Jetaime starts jigglign a coin.. Blue Linden or Prospero........ why can't y'all just have your own hours? heh
[15:45]	WarKirby Magojiro:	it gets truncated on editing
[15:46]	Daedalus Young:	love logs
[15:46]	Alexa Linden hands daedalus a gold star
[15:46]	Daedalus Young:	w00t
[15:46]	Daedalus Young:	thanks Alexa
[15:46]	Alexa Linden:	;)
[15:46]	Bridie Linden:	Related but different...?
[15:46]	Daedalus Young:	it's shiny with RenderDynamicReflections
[15:46]	WarKirby Magojiro:	yes. This is about group notices
[15:46]	Daedalus Young:	yes, I would agree
[15:47]	Aric Linden:	afk for a minute
[15:47]	Ciaran Laval:	So is it an issue with the amount of bytes a message can accept?
[15:47]	Bridie Linden:	So what should we do next?
[15:47]	Daedalus Young:	also different because this one's about other character handling
[15:47]	Bridie Linden:	I linked 'em
[15:47]	Bridie Linden:	Let's import
[15:47]	Daedalus Young:	japanese vs ascii vs utf-8 and stuff
[15:47]	Daedalus Young:	and the Monday one is just an inconsistency
[15:47]	Bridie Linden:	Got it, Torley?
[15:48]	Bridie Linden:	Got it.
[15:48]	Bridie Linden:	Next one: VWR-1124
[15:48]	Bridie Linden:	(Late comers, click on SL logo)
[15:48]	Bridie Linden:	Working great BTW, WarKirby!
[15:48]	Q Linden:	sweet
[15:48]	Bridie Linden:	See what great Residents we have, Q? :)
[15:49]	Bridie Linden:	Yeah we totally have a great crowd.
[15:49]	WarKirby Magojiro watches the video
[15:49]	Q Linden:	hey, I'm here to see how it's done...gonna start my own office hrs probably next week
[15:49]	Bridie Linden:	So glad to have you guys' help.
[15:49]	Bridie Linden:	Q: Awesome!
[15:49]	Bridie Linden:	Make sure to add yerself to the office hours page.
[15:49]	Daedalus Young:	happy to help out
[15:49]	Kooky Jetaime:	Q - Just try to make sure they arn't during someone elses..... Wednesdays are a good open day
[15:49]	Kooky Jetaime:	Mondays too
[15:50]	Bridie Linden:	So with 1124, a few folks can repro, one can't
[15:50]	Kooky Jetaime:	Wed - 2p :)
[15:50]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I can't quite tell what the problem is...
[15:50]	Daedalus Young:	QuickTime won't play it
[15:50]	WarKirby Magojiro:	ah
[15:50]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I see
[15:50]	Daedalus Young:	odd codec
[15:50]	Daedalus Young:	fmp4
[15:50]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I'm using VLC media player
[15:51]	Daedalus Young:	is that Maccable?
[15:51]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I have no idea
[15:51]	Bridie Linden:	*tries to watch the video*
[15:51]	WarKirby Magojiro:	possible
[15:51]	Daedalus Young:	google says yes
[15:51]	McCabe Maxsted:	I think there's a mac version out there
[15:51]	Mercia McMahon:	the person who cannot repo is using a slightly different graphics card
[15:51]	Kooky Jetaime:	WMP works just fine
[15:51]	Daedalus Young:	though I would like people to use more standard codecs :P
[15:52]	Daedalus Young:	mp4 works fine, why use something different?
[15:52]	Bridie Linden:	I can't view either
[15:52]	Kooky Jetaime:	Doesn't anyone have WMP?
[15:52]	Kooky Jetaime:	heh
[15:52]	WarKirby Magojiro:	VLC plays it fine
[15:52]	Daedalus Young:	not on mac no
[15:52]	Bridie Linden:	I'm watching the vid in Media Player Classic with a boatload of codecs (K-Lite)...
[15:52]	Kooky Jetaime:	I see what he means
[15:52]	Bridie Linden:	Hmmm yeah it clearly looks like there's a problem.
[15:52]	Kooky Jetaime:	its like a "Fog"
[15:52]	Daedalus Young:	yes, vlc, but I watch my vids in-browser :P
[15:52]	Kooky Jetaime:	not sharp intersections
[15:52]	Daedalus Young:	anywho
[15:52]	McCabe Maxsted:	what is the expected behavior of cross sections?
[15:52]	Bridie Linden:	Shall we import then Torley?
[15:53]	Bridie Linden:	Yes, sounds like a good one to import.
[15:53]	Bridie Linden:	McCabe: There should be "sharp intersections" between objects on the same planes, as Kooky mentioned.
[15:53]	Bridie Linden:	*Imports*
[15:53]	Bridie Linden:	Ask QA to try and repro first
[15:53]	Bridie Linden:	Will do.
[15:53]	McCabe Maxsted:	okay, will try to repro later myself
[15:54]	Bridie Linden:	Great. Next, VWR-678
[15:54]	Bridie Linden:	Wait, this sounds like another...
[15:54]	Bridie Linden:	VWR-1620.
[15:54]	Daedalus Young:	I'd agree with the comment it's related to packet loss
[15:55]	Bridie Linden:	I'm pretty sure this is dupe of VWR-1620.
[15:55]	Fremont Cunningham:	That looks like the antique avatar packet loss problem
[15:55]	WarKirby Magojiro:	shape distortion, wasn't it ?
[15:55]	Aric Linden:	back
[15:55]	Aric Linden:	did you miss me?
[15:55]	Daedalus Young:	wb
[15:55]	Aric Linden:	ty
[15:55]	Fremont Cunningham:	If cant fix the packet loss - Client needs a 'reload avatars' button.
[15:55]	Bridie Linden:	Indeed, Aric
[15:55]	Aric Linden is in a smart alecky mood
[15:55]	Aric Linden squints at bridie linden
[15:56]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I proposed that, actually
[15:56]	Bridie Linden:	Dupe of http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1620?
[15:56]	WarKirby Magojiro:	let me find it...
[15:56]	blogHUD Messenger:	Your image post has arrived at blogHUD.com []: see http://bloghud.com/id/13397
[15:56]	Aric Linden:	que numero?
[15:56]	Bridie Linden:	678
[15:56]	Daedalus Young:	vwr-678
[15:56]	Bridie Linden:	Yes, I'm pretty sure it's a dupe of VWR-1620.
[15:56]	Bridie Linden:	click on logo Aric
[15:56]	Bridie Linden:	*marks*
[15:56]	Bridie Linden:	And 1620 has been imported
[15:56]	Bridie Linden:	VWR-1620 was reopened after much concern... I've reopened the internal counterpart and asked Steve what he thinks.
[15:56]	Bridie Linden:	I think we're good then
[15:56]	Bridie Linden:	This has a LOT of history behind it, my friends. =)
[15:57]	WarKirby Magojiro:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1573
[15:57]	WarKirby Magojiro:	Manual de ruth/reload shape option
[15:57]	Daedalus Young:	ahh, love history :)
[15:57]	Bridie Linden:	Thanks!
[15:57]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I was going to propose it, but someone beat me tom it
[15:57]	Fremont Cunningham:	Its likely that the distorted avatar bug will be hard to repro at LL - too close to servers
[15:57]	Bridie Linden:	2 more to go, can we do it?
[15:57]	Bridie Linden:	Next VWR-2385
[15:57]	Daedalus Young:	sure
[15:58]	Bridie Linden:	We'll do our best.
[15:58]	Ciaran Laval:	Well this one is a yes or no. It does what is says on the tin, so whose going to fix it?
[15:58]	Bridie Linden:	Hmm
[15:58]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I'd agree with that, it should
[15:58]	WarKirby Magojiro:	I do this ofrten
[15:59]	McCabe Maxsted:	same
[15:59]	Bridie Linden:	I think this bug is not specific to this single popup... it affects other too.
[15:59]	WarKirby Magojiro:	accidentally hitting F1, when trying to hit Esc
[15:59]	Mercia McMahon:	I thought that this issue refers to tinies and therefore it is not about normal av problems but about the tricks used to make a tiny, am I wrong (sory you've moved on but I'll say it anyway)
[15:59]	Daedalus Young:	yes, I'd like ESC to always hit the cancel button
[15:59]	Daedalus Young:	equivalently
[15:59]	Bridie Linden:	Sounds like a good one for Benjamin to look at.
[15:59]	Q Linden agrees
[15:59]	Fremont Cunningham:	Its a medium deficiency.
[15:59]	Bridie Linden:	Feature request really, then?
[15:59]	Kooky Jetaime:	Actually
[15:59]	Kooky Jetaime:	Esc should always apply Cancel
[15:59]	Daedalus Young:	indeed Kooky
[15:59]	Fremont Cunningham:	Esc is an established feature
[15:59]	McCabe Maxsted:	should be a bug
[15:59]	Bridie Linden:	Add that as a comment Kooky?
[15:59]	Kooky Jetaime:	I've accidentally teleported home before and have whapped "Esc" outta habit trying to stop it
[15:59]	Bridie Linden:	Where else in the UI does Esc already close a window?
[16:00]	Bridie Linden:	I thought Esc often returns focus to chat bar.
[16:00]	WarKirby Magojiro:	yes
[16:00]	WarKirby Magojiro:	also, cancelling teleport home doesn't work
[16:00]	Ciaran Laval:	Closes the chat bar
[16:00]	Daedalus Young:	while trying to do the "hippos"easter egg, accidentally hit "Go Home" yes...
[16:00]	Ciaran Laval:	The main chat bar anyway
[16:00]	Kooky Jetaime:	Warkirby - it does, but you gotta be /FAST/
[16:00]	Bridie Linden:	Ciaran: Yes, if you press Esc if focus is already in the chat bar.
[16:00]	WarKirby Magojiro:	it should roll back the teleport regwrdless.
[16:00]	WarKirby Magojiro will report that
[16:00]	Bridie Linden:	So... where else in the UI does Esc already close a window?
[16:00]	Ciaran Laval:	Ah it moves the focus
[16:01]	Bridie Linden:	I'm actually not convinced it's part of our current focus model.
[16:01]	Ciaran Laval:	if it doesn't work
[16:01]	Daedalus Young:	also Group Notices could use an ESC function :)
[16:01]	Fremont Cunningham:	Actually Esc fails to defocus the 'Quit' dialog too
[16:01]	Kooky Jetaime:	Closes the chat bar
[16:01]	WarKirby Magojiro:	it doesn't
[16:01]	McCabe Maxsted:	esc closes popups in windows
[16:01]	Bridie Linden:	Does it on the Mac?
[16:01]	Kooky Jetaime:	Esc removes focus from floaties
[16:01]	Kooky Jetaime:	but not closes
[16:01]	Daedalus Young:	correct
[16:01]	Bridie Linden:	Why don't we ask Benjamin to discuss @ his next office hour?
[16:01]	Bridie Linden:	Sounds good to me.
[16:01]	Daedalus Young:	not all however, the Snapshot window is a different case
[16:02]	Ciaran Laval:	If I have the communicate window focussed and hit esc focus moves to the main chat bar, the communicate window stays open
[16:02]	Bridie Linden:	I'd suggest changing this to New Feature since it's not already an established part of our UI.
[16:02]	Daedalus Young:	also floats over the menu
[16:02]	Daedalus Young:	and any other UI
[16:02]	Bridie Linden:	If it was a definite inconsistency then it'd be a bug.
[16:02]	Bridie Linden nods
[16:02]	Fremont Cunningham:	I suspect that the Esc service routine is not aware of some windows
[16:02]	Kooky Jetaime:	Bridie - Esc also undoes any entered change in a text box with regard to About Land, or Edit window...
[16:02]	WarKirby Magojiro:	hmm
[16:02]	Daedalus Young:	intuitively however, esc should trigger cancel
[16:02]	WarKirby Magojiro:	it doesn't undo name changes of objects
[16:02]	Bridie Linden:	Anyone object to further discussions w/Benjamin Linden and company?
[16:02]	Daedalus Young:	rather than defocus
[16:03]	WarKirby Magojiro:	not at all
[16:03]	Fremont Cunningham:	F1 and Quit are recently added windows. I was not aware of the Esc interaction...
[16:03]	Bridie Linden:	I'll import this for Ben's RxTriage too.
[16:03]	Bridie Linden:	I'd like to get to last one on the list...
[16:03]	Ciaran Laval:	I think it defocus' because it thinks it's done its task
[16:03]	Bridie Linden:	OK! ONE MORE!
[16:03]	Bridie Linden:	VWR-2322
[16:03]	Daedalus Young:	yay
[16:03]	Fremont Cunningham:	So stuff probably needs to be added to Esc
[16:03]	Daedalus Young:	ahh
[16:03]	Ciaran Laval:	Ok we've mentioned this elsewhere, I think Torley said it should be done,
[16:03]	Daedalus Young:	we had this at UI triage
[16:03]	Ciaran Laval:	Or was it Hamilton?
[16:03]	Daedalus Young:	or general triage
[16:04]	Daedalus Young:	we agreed on it
[16:04]	Bridie Linden:	It does ring a bell...
[16:04]	WarKirby Magojiro:	sounds like a small, simple issue
[16:04]	Bridie Linden:	Import then, please.
[16:04]	Bridie Linden:	Cool! We made it!
[16:04]	Bridie Linden:	Ciaran: I don't think that was me, sounds more like Ben...
[16:04]	Bridie Linden:	Thx all!
[16:04]	WarKirby Magojiro:	yay
[16:04]	Kooky Jetaime:	whoops gotta go
[16:04]	Saijanai Kuhn:	grats
[16:04]	Bridie Linden:	It was already imported!
[16:04]	Bridie Linden:	Congrats everyone!
[16:04]	Ciaran Laval:	Ah could have been Benjamin Torley
[16:04]	Kooky Jetaime:	Gonna stop at blues and some other linden I've never heard of
[16:04]	WarKirby Magojiro:	we completed all fo them ,a dn only 5 mins over time
[16:04]	Mercia McMahon:	bye
[16:04]	Bridie Linden:	Fantastic work everyone - much appreciated!
[16:05]	Aric Linden:	i gotta go
[16:05]	Q Linden:	bye all
[16:05]	Aric Linden:	sorry I wasn't much help today
[16:05]	Bridie Linden:	Look for new RC Viewer sooooonnnnn!
[16:05]	Daedalus Young:	and we didn't start exactly on time
[16:05]	McCabe Maxsted:	take care everyone :)
[16:05]	WarKirby Magojiro:	a new one?
[16:05]	Bridie Linden:	Bridie I updated the wiki doc.
[16:05]	WarKirby Magojiro:	yay
[16:05]	Bridie Linden:	No worries Aric, it's good to have ya hanging out with us.
[16:05]	Bridie Linden:	HEhe.
[16:05]	Bridie Linden:	Thx Torley!
[16:05]	Bridie Linden:	=)
[16:05]	WarKirby Magojiro:	will this one have the glow feature?
[16:05]	Bridie Linden:	Can you send me chat history Torley?
[16:05]	WarKirby Magojiro has an idea using that already
[16:05]	Bridie Linden:	Of course Bridie, will do that in a few min.
[16:05]	Daedalus Young:	so we can have the next official release better and smooth for the blog whiners :D
[16:05]	Bridie Linden:	That'll be in WindLight WarKirby
[16:06]	WarKirby Magojiro:	ah
[16:06]	Bridie Linden:	Later all!