Community Tools User Group/10-Mar-2011

Transcript

[12:57]	Amanda Linden:	lemme grab the agenda.
[12:57]	Cummere Mayo:	its a busy agenda
[12:57]	me takes	some chocolate
[12:57]	Mags Indigo:	/me wonders where the bar is...
[12:58]	Zav Kirkorian	(zavarah.zabelin): /me listnes
[12:58]	Amanda Linden:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Community_Tools_User_Group
[12:58]	Amanda Linden:	feel free to add items--this is our time to help get your questions answered and learn more about what you're looking for re: community communications/tools.
[12:58]	Amanda Linden:	:)
[12:58]	Zav Kirkorian	(zavarah.zabelin): Wher do i add theitemto be talked abnout
[12:58]	Cummere Mayo:	amanda before we start i have an off topic question that I hope you can answer or find the answer for me
[12:59]	Doctor Gascoigne:	hey!
[12:59]	Doctor Gascoigne:	lexie
[12:59]	Amanda Linden:	while we are waiting, does anyone want an invite to the community tools group? send me a private IM and I'll add you.
[12:59]	Doctor Gascoigne:	jeremy
[12:59]	Doctor Gascoigne	has pinged you.
[12:59]	Amanda Linden:	sure cummere.
[12:59]	Jeremy Linden:	/me waves.
[12:59]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): hi all
[12:59]	Doctor Gascoigne:	hey!
[12:59]	Doctor Gascoigne:	torb
[12:59]	Thriller Dancer:	Say 'on' or 'off'to turn me on or off, or 'help' for more commands
[12:59]	Marianne McCann:	Hey Jeremy
[12:59]	Marianne McCann	has pinged you.
[12:59]	Doctor Gascoigne:	Mari
[12:59]	Marianne McCann:	What's up, Doc?
[13:00]	Marianne McCann:	/me has always wanted to say that
[13:00]	Doctor Gascoigne:	you get my email
[13:00]	Cummere Mayo:	who shouldi send the SL rolelr derby association to to talk about trying to get an event sim donated by LL?
[13:00]	Cummere Mayo:	*roller
[13:00]	Amanda Linden:	sorry--we can't donate sims anymore--except in very special circumstances.
[13:00]	Youri Ashton:	ello
[13:00]	Amanda Linden:	but, they are welcome to email business@lindenlab.com
[13:00]	Amanda Linden:	and it goes into the sales queue
[13:00]	Arawn Graalrd	(arawn.spitteler): /me mumbles something about High Hopes.
[13:01]	Amanda Linden:	looks like we have a full house!
[13:01]	Cummere Mayo:	k thank you amanda
[13:01]	Amanda Linden:	hey all.
[13:01]	Amanda Linden:	shall we get started?
[13:01]	Doctor Gascoigne:	plese
[13:01]	Doctor Gascoigne:	please
[13:01]	Amanda Linden:	fab.
[13:01]	Daniel Voyager:	sure
[13:01]	Amanda Linden:	so, before we dive into the agenda, wanted to generally see what you think re: the new community platform, now that you've had some time to play around in it.
[13:01]	Mags Indigo:	hmmm it won't let me log in
[13:01]	Arawn Graalrd	(arawn.spitteler): New Community Platform?
[13:02]	Cummere Mayo:	see last item on agenda amanda
[13:02]	Mags Indigo:	keeps telling me I have the wrong password
[13:02]	Amanda Linden:	community.secondlife.com
[13:02]	Amanda Linden:	new blogs/forums, etc.
[13:02]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): I really like some parts of it :)
[13:02]	Marianne McCann:	Overall, I like. Still see a lot of the usualy issues. Spammers etc
[13:02]	bob Iwashi:	hi folks
[13:02]	Amanda Linden:	cummere--i see the agenda. thanks.
[13:02]	Amanda Linden:	cool.
[13:03]	Doctor Gascoigne:	ok
[13:03]	Amanda Linden:	yeah, spamming has been an issue.
[13:03]	Youri Ashton:	the forums look good so far i see, but the wiki still is a mess
[13:03]	Marianne McCann:	And some of the ol' dramas flare.
[13:03]	Marianne McCann:	/me grins
[13:03]	Arawn Graalrd	(arawn.spitteler): http://community.secondlife.com with new stuff to obfuscate the old?
[13:03]	Youri Ashton:	sorry jeremy, i know you put in a lot of time into that, but its true.
[13:03]	Youri Ashton	has pinged you.
[13:03]	Lisa Fossett:	OK, bob...can you turn it off??
[13:03]	Arawn Graalrd	(arawn.spitteler): Flooding or Spamming?
[13:03]	m sad	it doesn't support a full "ignore this user" feature
[13:03]	Doctor Gascoigne:	can you turn that off please
[13:03]	Doctor Gascoigne:	thanks
[13:03]	Arawn Graalrd	(arawn.spitteler): stop
[13:03]	Jeremy Linden:	We're working on cleaning up the wiki, Youri.
[13:03]	Amanda Linden:	thanks.
[13:03]	Raymond Linden:	I can give you an update with some things we have updated since last week in the Community
[13:04]	Amanda Linden:	yeah--oobscure--it doesn't have that feature.
[13:04]	Amanda Linden:	go for it raymond.
[13:04]	Cummere Mayo:	parts of it need work, and the moderation gets a bit more sane... it would be really good
[13:04]	Raymond Linden:	Created sub forums for: Music and Beta Grid
[13:04]	Youri Ashton:	good to hear jeremy, make sure you add in a clear and understandable office hour calendar
[13:04]	Youri Ashton	has pinged you.
[13:04]
[13:04]	bob Iwashi:	budge up a bit lexie and susopiria
[13:04]	Raymond Linden:	We also recreated the structure for Buy and Sell Land
[13:04]	Doctor Gascoigne:	I been begging for moderation for years
[13:04]	Youri Ashton:	it's been hell to find out which oh's were when and where
[13:04]	Raymond Linden:	Implemented this morning!
[13:04]	Doctor Gascoigne:	cool
[13:04]
[13:04]	Raymond Linden:	We increased the # of image uploads to 500
[13:04]	Jeremy Linden:	Youri, there is one: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User_Groups
[13:04]	Youri Ashton:	heya raymond
[13:04]	Daniel Voyager:	Likes the tabbed interface..nice! :)
[13:04]	Cummere Mayo:	saw that raymond. thank you
[13:04]	Raymond Linden:	Kudos has been implemented
[13:05]	Raymond Linden:	Some of the light gray fonts replaced by darker gray fonts so it is easier to read. Still some work to do here.
[13:05]
[13:05]	kudos for	that!
[13:05]	Youri Ashton:	( waves to lexie ^_^ )
[13:05]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): yay I noticed the Kudos earlier :)
[13:05]	Raymond Linden:	Tonight . . .
[13:05]	Charlene Trudeau	- SkyBeam (charlene.trudeau): Under 'Additional Links' one to the grid status page would be awesome
[13:05]	Raymond Linden:	More changes
[13:05]	Raymond Linden:	link colors in the body of Forums, Blogs, Answers ank KB will be green instead of black
[13:05]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): *woot*
[13:06]	Amanda Linden:	woot to that!
[13:06]	Raymond Linden:	Also, we have made some updates to the copy within Community Help
[13:06]	Jeremy Linden:	/me does a happydance for green links.
[13:06]	Raymond Linden:	Things we are currently looking into and scoping out:
[13:06]	Amanda Linden:	and, today lexie also added a commerce (merchant) blog
[13:06]
[13:06]	Raymond Linden:	Here is a biggie:
[13:06]	Daniel Voyager:	Would like to see a single RSS feed to all Blogs...?
[13:06]	Raymond Linden:	Replies show who is actually replied to
[13:06]	Marianne McCann:	Oh, huzzah
[13:06]	Amanda Linden:	ossm raymond!
[13:06]	Mags Indigo:	YES - that's super
[13:06]
[13:07]	Lisa Fossett:	/me agress with Danlie re: RSS
[13:07]	Venus Petrov:	nice job
[13:07]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): that is extremely appreciated
[13:07]
[13:07]	Raymond Linden:	So, this actually needs to be developed
[13:07]	Raymond Linden:	and we are scoping it out with Lithium
[13:07]	Raymond Linden:	Also, we are continuing to work on our Spam filters
[13:07]
[13:07]	Mags Indigo:	great
[13:07]	Cummere Mayo:	has order been fixed in answers? allot of people were finding that incredibly confusing
[13:07]	Amanda Linden:	yep-we know it's been an issue.
[13:08]	Raymond Linden:	Lexie - any update on the Answers ordering?
[13:08]	we are	looking at it.
[13:08]	I know	the kudos complicated things
[13:08]	Cummere Mayo:	k thank you...
[13:08]	Raymond Linden:	Definitely on our plate!
[13:08]	Raymond Linden:	Ok . . Smiley faces
[13:08]	Marianne McCann:	/me still wants that mainland community space
[13:08]	Raymond Linden:	or emoticns
[13:09]	Raymond Linden:	emoticons
[13:09]	Amanda Linden:	i think that was on oru list marianne.
[13:09]	Marianne McCann:	kk
[13:09]	Amanda Linden:	general mainland communmity forum.
[13:09]	Raymond Linden:	We do have the ability to load in new ones.
[13:09]	I like	it.
[13:09]	Raymond Linden:	So, if you have any recommendations, we would love to check them out!
[13:09]	Marianne McCann:	Raymond, any chance of getting common ones mapped to the images? Say :=_ triggering what is now :smileyhappy: or what not?
[13:09]	Marianne McCann:	triggering, I mean
[13:09]	Venus Petrov:	any progress on the request for an adult-only forum?
[13:10]	Marianne McCann:	Oops, triggering my own gestures. ":-)"
[13:10]	Amanda Linden:	yes, i have an update there from blondin this morning.
[13:10]	Raymond Linden:	Marianne - not sure, but we can look into
[13:10]	Amanda Linden:	re: adult.
[13:10]	Cummere Mayo:	Mew
[13:10]	Cummere Mayo:	>.> a one, a *whap* one, and a beating the dead horse one would be nice... >..>
[13:10]	Amanda Linden:	we are going to do an adult private forum--for the adult land owners/business owners.
[13:10]	Lisa Fossett:	IMO, emoticons are superflous. Work on functionality first, please
[13:10]	Cummere Mayo:	thank god...
[13:10]	Amanda Linden:	better to have those discussions as private. connect with him on that if you want in.
[13:10]	Marianne McCann:	Makes some sense
[13:10]	Venus Petrov:	residents will not have access?
[13:11]	Raymond Linden:	There have also been a lot of threads about logon issues
[13:11]	In the	old system there was a way to appeal a warning letter or suspension. I've seen nothing for Lithium nor do we get emails anymore, only PM's
[13:11]	Amanda Linden:	no, unfortunately, a lot of what weould be discussed in an adult public forum would be against our community standards.
[13:11]	Amanda Linden:	we just can't host that discussion publicly on the forums.
[13:11]	Amanda Linden:	let's save moderation stuff for the end.
[13:11]	Arawn Graalrd	(arawn.spitteler): /me wonders what's discussed in house
[13:11]	Marianne McCann:	I have noted an odd glitch sometimes. Still trying to put together aJIRA on it. Sometimes, here on Mac/Safari, Clicking "reply" redirects me to the forum main, rather than opening the reply.
[13:12]	Amanda Linden:	if all the big updates are done, then let's dive into the agenda.
[13:12]	Marianne McCann:	But not 100% repeatable yet, so I've not finished a JIRA
[13:12]	Raymond Linden:	Lithium works with OpenID. So, it allows you to use your SL.com logon and pw. However, being logged into SL.com does not automatically log you into community.sl.com
[13:12]	are Kudos	enabled everywhere? I see it works at http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Texturing/Counteracting-an-overlay/m-p/739711 but not at http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Inworld-Employment/Shi-Studio-Looking-for-Motivated-Experienced-Photographer/m-p/739651 - do you see the same?
[13:12]	Cummere Mayo:	its missing a step there raymond
[13:12]	Marianne McCann:	Hey Stryker
[13:12]	Stryker Jenkins:	/me waves
[13:12]	Raymond Linden:	That being said, the Support Portal is tied more closely with the Lithium site
[13:12]	only in	Answers, KB and Content creation
[13:13]	Raymond Linden:	So, if you are logged into the Support Portal it will port you over
[13:13]	Raymond Linden:	but, an issue we are looking into is . .. .
[13:14]	Raymond Linden:	you still need to click the Sign In Link in the upper right hand corner of the site. And you will be automaticall logged in
[13:14]	Raymond Linden:	This has caused some confusion and we are adding it to our backlog
[13:14]	Cummere Mayo:	yeah... same with my.secondlife.com theres a missing step there with the openid process
[13:14]	Raymond Linden:	Oh . .
[13:15]	Raymond Linden:	And there are threads indicating when you are logged off in the forums and then logon, you are bounced to the top of the Blog page
[13:15]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-3731
[13:15]	Raymond Linden:	We are going to add this to the backlog as well. So, you will stay on the page you are viewing
[13:15]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): created a jira about that
[13:15]	Cummere Mayo:	or when you click reply to answers or forums
[13:15]	Raymond Linden:	yes
[13:16]	Mags Indigo:	cool
[13:16]	I have	a couple answers for questions on the agenda
[13:16]	Marianne McCann:	Good
[13:16]	Cummere Mayo:	also if you click the link from an email to view an item you go to the blog page instead raymond
[13:16]	Raymond Linden:	ok, thanks Cummere
[13:16]	you had	a couple
[13:16]	Amanda Linden:	kk, let's get back to agenda. :)
[13:16]	Amanda Linden:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Community_Tools_User_Group
[13:17]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): yes :)
[13:17]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): /me blushes
[13:17]	Amanda Linden:	torben had the first question re: ilocalized help.
[13:17]	Amanda Linden:	anyone on the linden side want to jump in there?
[13:17]	we are	looking at that. We "may" be able to make a role for translators. Noelle will have some updates for the translators pretty soon.
[13:17]	Arawn Graalrd	(arawn.spitteler): What's the URL for the Agenda; I'm luckily not on Viewer 2, atm?
[13:17]	Youri Ashton:	translation first on i see
[13:17]	Youri Ashton:	think that applies to me
[13:17]
[13:18]	Any other	question on that
[13:18]	Mags Indigo:	nope
[13:18]
[13:18]	Amanda Linden:	nnext item up for bid?
[13:18]	m sure	you know that there are already localized KBs
[13:18]	Youri Ashton:	I was wondering about the same thing
[13:18]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): yes, many of them I translated :)
[13:18]
[13:18]	Amanda Linden:	community guidelines that we're using are the ones on every page of the platform.
[13:18]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): at least in german
[13:18]
[13:18]	Amanda Linden:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Community_Participation_Guidelines
[13:19]	Youri Ashton:	it just looks, sorry to say, that we got replaced by Google translator and similar tools which are far from accurate
[13:19]	Amanda Linden:	these are the ones that moderators are using and that are relevant when you want to flag content that is potentially in violation.
[13:19]	Youri Ashton:	it ratehr feels as well like a kick between the legs to put it lightly
[13:19]	we have	not used any machine translation for KB articles. Can't speak to anything else
[13:19]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): Amanda, the link on the community page goes to http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Discussion_guidelines
[13:20]	Amanda Linden:	those are the old ones.
[13:20]	Amanda Linden:	new ones are in lithium the link above.
[13:20]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): that is where the confusion comes from
[13:20]	there will	be a translation meeting soon. Sorry it has been so quiet. Translators are not forgotten!
[13:20]	Amanda Linden:	ah, rand, we should take those old ones down.
[13:20]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): this is the link from lithium
[13:20]	will rediret	the old one to the new one
[13:20]	Amanda Linden:	good point. all of them should point to this page.
[13:20]	Amanda Linden:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Community_Participation_Guidelines
[13:20]	Amanda Linden:	sorry for confusion. we'll look into it and do some redirects. :)
[13:20]	Amanda Linden:	good point.
[13:21]	Amanda Linden:	great feedback. ty.
[13:21]	Amanda Linden:	next is threaded view improvements.
[13:21]	Cummere Mayo:	they need some clarifications though amanda
[13:21]	Amanda Linden:	raymond? lexie?
[13:21]	Amanda Linden:	kk, i'll jump into that thread and clarify. will do.
[13:21]	I think	we kind of covered that. It is something we are talking to Lithium about
[13:22]	Youri Ashton:	I mearly say something a lot are thinking ;)
[13:22]	We realize	people need to see who they are replying to etc
[13:22]	Amanda Linden:	kk, coolio.
[13:22]	If there	is a better set up available, we will find it ã‹¡
[13:22]	Mags Indigo:	it does help conversations 'flow' a bit easier
[13:22]	Amanda Linden:	next up is login issues.
[13:22]
[13:22]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): yay :)
[13:22]	Raymond Linden:	agreed
[13:22]	Mags Indigo:	and stops too many misunderstandings
[13:23]	Amanda Linden:	raymond, wanna look at the link that torben added to agenda there?
[13:23]	We covered	that as well unless there were more questions about the log in issue
[13:23]	Mags Indigo:	some people are saying they get logged out if they close the forums page and then try to reopen it after a while from the dashboard
[13:23]	Mags Indigo:	they have to sign in again
[13:23]	Raymond Linden:	there is a time limit if you are inactive
[13:23]
[13:24]	Cummere Mayo:	time outs are broken across lithium... can we please find a way to shut them off?
[13:24]	Mags Indigo:	ok so an hour
[13:24]	Cummere Mayo:	lexie im still geting 5 minute timeouts...
[13:24]	Stryker Jenkins:	not sure if this is related... but say If I am in Answers and have not yet "signed it" when I do sign in I get piped to the Blog tab rahter then the Answer tab where i was...
[13:24]	Mags Indigo:	personally that sounds ok to me but I know some people would like semi-perm log ins
[13:24]	Raymond Linden:	Torben - regarding your link regarding logons - we are adding this to the backlog to fix
[13:24]	we are	looking at that issue Stryker
[13:25]	Stryker Jenkins:	cooly
[13:25]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): awesome :)
[13:25]	Raymond Linden:	Stryker - yep thats on the backlog!
[13:25]	Thanks for	all the feedback on the log in issue too
[13:25]
[13:25]	Amanda Linden:	abslutely!
[13:25]	Amanda Linden:	absolutely!
[13:25]	Amanda Linden:	yes, i can spell
[13:25]
[13:25]	Amanda Linden:	once in while.
[13:25]	Mags Indigo:	/me grins
[13:26]	Cummere Mayo:	/me chuckles
[13:26]	Stryker Jenkins:	is there a public "to-do" list of stuff your team is working on?
[13:26]	Cummere Mayo:	my bad habits are rubbing off on you amanda?
[13:26]	Youri Ashton:	havnt had that happen for a year
[13:26]	Not a	public one no
[13:26]	Amanda Linden:	/me smiles
[13:26]	Raymond Linden:	Not a public one, but we can update you weekly here
[13:26]	Stryker Jenkins:	fair enough
[13:27]	Cummere Mayo:	maybe you could update us in the group too?
[13:27]	Arawn Graalrd	(arawn.spitteler): I expect that Next could be a fluid designation
[13:27]	Cummere Mayo:	maybe a daily notice?
[13:27]	Amanda Linden:	i think that a weekly update at these meetings is best, if that works for you guys
[13:27]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): works fine for me :)
[13:28]	Youri Ashton:	weekly update is good to have :)
[13:28]	Venus Petrov:	/me nods
[13:28]	Does the	number of wiki edits, jira issues filed/commented/moved/solved, KB articles suggested/improved/translated and/or contribution agreements signed have influence on roles in the community platform?
[13:28]	Amanda Linden:	cool. the team needs to focus on delivering and we should have lots of good stuff to share at weekly intervals.
[13:28]	Stryker Jenkins:	maybe a bit of an off topic question... but is there a KB article on the "background image sizes" for the Badges on the Forum / av pictures?
[13:28]	Mags Indigo:	ok with me too
[13:28]	Amanda Linden:	if ther'es someting big, then we may update you via the inworld group tho.
[13:29]	Sorry I	jumped ahead lol
[13:29]	Mags Indigo:	Suella did a good post on that Stryker
[13:29]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): is there a inworld group yet?
[13:29]	Amanda Linden:	yep, whoever wants an invite, just directly IM me.
[13:29]	Amanda Linden:	ok, roles and ranks? we ready to tackle that one?
[13:30]
[13:30]	I am	hehe
[13:30]	Amanda Linden:	do the lindens need any body armor before we begin?
[13:30]
[13:30]	Youri Ashton:	already have the group tag + the old one
[13:30]	Raymond Linden:	haha
[13:30]	Cummere Mayo:	yeah this one is inspiring some contetion
[13:30]
[13:30]	Cummere Mayo:	*contention
[13:30]	Torben asked:	Re: Does the number of wiki edits, jira issues filed/commented/moved/solved, KB articles suggested/improved/translated and/or contribution agreements signed have influence on roles in the community platform?
[13:30]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): I left all weapons at home today :)
[13:30]	Wiki and	jira are not part of the community platform so it will not impact the rank/role structure. KB Articles that are improved and submitted for publishing would be considered accepted solutions once published. That would impact the ranking, yes.
[13:30]	Marianne McCann:	/me notes that push is indeed on here
[13:31]	Cummere Mayo:	jira and wiki really should influcence those roles though... or else alternative roles for those that work there allot
[13:31]	Did that	answer it for you Torben?
[13:32]	Mags Indigo:	I'm not sure why to be honest - forums stuff is forum stuff
[13:32]	Arawn Graalrd	(arawn.spitteler): What's the Rank and Roll Issue?
[13:32]	Mags Indigo:	I'd prefer to see roles etc gone totally
[13:32]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): yes and no, but then you already mentioned alternative solutions via Noelle and that already answered my alternative question :)
[13:32]
[13:32]	Why do	the roles bother you?
[13:32]	Cummere Mayo:	becuase their favoritism
[13:32]	Cummere Mayo:	and allot of the people that have high roles do not deserve them
[13:33]	Mags Indigo:	they seem to generate a 'competitive' edge in the forums
[13:33]	Because they	were unjustly issued based on accomplishments
[13:33]	The ranks	are automatically assigned, so there is no favoritism
[13:33]	Mags Indigo:	as yet noone is sure what determines 'promotion'
[13:33]	Cummere Mayo:	you have people that are racist or that routinely insult users with advisor roles
[13:33]	DogWomble Dollinger:	well, ithink it'd be good to have them jus so that newer users can have some idea of who might be trusted
[13:33]	DogWomble Dollinger:	but it wuld have to be well managed
[13:33]	Stryker Jenkins:	for one thing we can add kudos to help increase a members role... is there a system inplace to decrease a members status as well?
[13:33]	Mags Indigo:	so some people are posting like mad or making loads of threads , there's lots of veiled inneundo
[13:33]	Mags Indigo:	it's all a bit yeuch
[13:33]	Have you	all had a chance to read the Community Help about Ranks and Roles?
[13:33]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): yes
[13:34]	Cummere Mayo:	yes lexie
[13:34]	Venus Petrov:	yes
[13:34]
[13:34]	Marianne McCann:	It seems an inherently "gamable" feature, and one that provides a visible "clout" to a user, whether deserved or otherwise
[13:34]	Cummere Mayo:	and allot of the jira helpers official or unofficial are slighted by these roles too
[13:34]	Venus Petrov:	it is not transparent how one goes from H. Res to Member, for example
[13:34]	Stryker Jenkins:	/me hangs his head in shame... no lexie... lol
[13:34]	Please keep	in mind that the formula is a combination of items. Its not just about posting, or kudos. Its about partcipation.
[13:34]	Cummere Mayo:	cause most of us only use the forums rarely so we are lucky to get "hontored resident"
[13:34]	Arawn Graalrd	(arawn.spitteler): A person with much to say might not be the best judge of what others say
[13:34]	Mags Indigo:	I also get the impression that there are some bruised egos about as people find they are merely 'lowly'
[13:34]
[13:35]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): I was disappointed when I turned into a member from honored resident - but then I read it was some kind of promotion and was happy again :)
[13:35]	Venus Petrov:	And,likewise, the reverse exists
[13:35]	we are	looking and the ranks/roles again and we may be able to simplify.
[13:35]	Stryker Jenkins:	should it not be about quality of the participation Lexie?
[13:35]	s based	on participation why was I initiated at the lowest rank when I was the largest participant in the old format?
[13:35]	Cummere Mayo:	lexie bottom line is the only people that seem happy with them are the trolls
[13:35]	We can	keep you updated on that
[13:35]	Cummere Mayo:	which brings the question
[13:35]	Cummere Mayo:	why are many of the known trolls advisors?
[13:35]	it should	be
[13:36]	Mags Indigo:	participation I think means more than post counts Suspiria
[13:36]	I am	not sure that is the case.
[13:36]	Venus Petrov:	agree, Mags
[13:36]
[13:36]	Youri Ashton:	I can see the point of wanting to earn roles, it's giving people a morale boost to work harder for it and keep working.
[13:37]	Stryker Jenkins:	It's easy enough to answer tons of questions with not to cleaver remarks... does that give me a "higher" status... I hope not...
[13:37]	Youri Ashton:	it's a good thing to have appriciation for your work, even if it is volunteers work
[13:37]	Does it	also make sense to you to have more experienced residents contributing to the KB, rather than new residents?
[13:37]	Cummere Mayo:	its also easy for the same 5-6 people to game their roles by constnatly kudos etc eachother
[13:37]	Venus Petrov:	yes, that makes sense to me
[13:37]	Youri Ashton:	yes it does
[13:37]	Marianne McCann:	Hey Blondin
[13:37]	DogWomble Dollinger:	that would lexie
[13:37]	It is	about quality and being helpful.
[13:37]	So if	you say thank you 2000 times in answers does that justify a higher rank? Or copy and pasting from the wiki?
[13:37]	Youri Ashton:	hey blondin!
[13:38]	Youri Ashton:	good to see you again m8 :p
[13:38]	Cummere Mayo:	yes lexie, but allot fo the most experienced residents spend more time on wiki and jira then forums
[13:38]	Mags Indigo:	my personal interpretation of 'participation' is about quality of involvement - creating a positive environment and also by challenging and arguing appropriately
[13:38]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): totally, I just think Lindens should keep in mind that there are some experienced residents not willing to participate much in forums but willing to help with KB articles
[13:38]	accepted solutions	that improve help in the community are needed.
[13:38]	Thank you	is nice but won't dont it ã‹¡
[13:38]	Ok how	were solutions transfered from the old format?
[13:39]	Youri Ashton:	Lexie: as i mentioned during the translator Oh's before, we need experienced people leading, not just big names that pose as they know a lot
[13:39]	Helpful answers	were marked as Kudos in the migration
[13:39]	Cummere Mayo:	and many of those were gamed ><
[13:39]	Cummere Mayo:	and some of those flat out wrong answers at that
[13:39]	Answered questiosn	were marked as accepted solutions in the migration
[13:39]	ok so	with over 1000 pinots for helpful answers, why do I have only 10 solutions?
[13:39]	Stryker Jenkins:	actully a good point lexie... in the end the user who posted the question decide if the answer is valid and hence the "points" go the the best answer.
[13:39]
[13:40]
[13:40]
[13:40]	Cummere Mayo:	which means certain residents that often would always mark their friends as the best answer no matter what got solutions
[13:40]	Cummere Mayo:	*sighs*
[13:40]	s right	Cummere
[13:41]	Marianne McCann:	Puts us back at the era of "I'll rate you positive if you rate me positive," no?
[13:41]	Cummere Mayo:	why bother at all then... the forums are a popularity contest then
[13:41]	Stryker Jenkins:	but that leaves only the issue the more your participate the higher your rank will be. If you only are able to answer a few questions you would never advance... or would you?
[13:41]	Lets keep	working on it, and please keep giving us your feedback.
[13:41]	Amanda Linden:	there's always a way to game the system, but over time, the best content should float to top, along with the most valuable and helpful contributors will be recognized with elevated roles.
[13:41]
[13:41]	Cummere Mayo:	while those of us that work our ****** off in wiki, jira dont get roles
[13:41]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): maybe we just contact you when we see gaming happen?
[13:42]	Amanda Linden:	please do. just email me.
[13:42]	Arawn Graalrd	(arawn.spitteler): If your nature i to answer questions, why would you care about Rank?
[13:42]	Amanda Linden:	amanda@lindenlab.com.
[13:42]	Do I	deserve an answer Lexie?
[13:42]	Cummere Mayo:	can you not see why people are hating these roles?
[13:42]	Youri Ashton:	it might be a good idea to have a small group of people that actually do the most and with that give the best. This group can actually do a bit to lighten your work etc
[13:42]	I knwo	you have an acct issue. Lets cover that out of meeting time ok?
[13:42]
[13:42]
[13:42]	Amanda Linden:	ok, time for me to put my hard hat on....
[13:42]	Marianne McCann:	If I'm passionate abotu something, role becomes irrelevant. Appreciated, but irrelevant
[13:42]	Amanda Linden:	moderation...
[13:43]	Amanda Linden:	ok, lemem begin with a little preface.
[13:43]	Mags Indigo:	/me chuckles
[13:43]	Are we	allowed to speak freely?
[13:43]	Amanda Linden:	lemme say a few things first, k?
[13:43]
[13:43]	Stryker Jenkins:	right you can't bring the "rank" to the bank... so its all about appreciation
[13:43]	Amanda Linden:	and the answer is---of course. :)
[13:43]	Amanda Linden:	so, we have moderators in the system every day (7 days a week)
[13:43]	Jeremy Linden:	(Within the bounds of a G rated region)
[13:44]	Amanda Linden:	and we're still figuring out the right levels on things.
[13:44]	Cummere Mayo:	jermey can you up this parcel to m please :P
[13:44]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): *lol*
[13:44]	Amanda Linden:	many folks walk a fine line re: teh community guidelines.
[13:44]	Amanda Linden:	and, we've had some "report abuse" flame wars for content that was fine.
[13:44]	Jeremy Linden:	Cummere, I specifically lowered it to G so that our 16 and 17 year olds would be allowed to participate.
[13:44]	Amanda Linden:	so, that's gonna end.
[13:45]	Amanda Linden:	but, we're all learning together and i'm super open to feedback/thoughts.
[13:45]	Amanda Linden:	the goal ist o keep the forums clean, productive, and helpful.
[13:45]	Amanda Linden:	all of the community platform areas--actually
[13:45]	Amanda Linden:	so, that's my preamble.
[13:45]	Mags Indigo:	I think a lot of people need to get their heads arounf the fact that it is a G rated forum
[13:45]	Amanda Linden:	ok, fire away.
[13:45]	Mags Indigo:	that's one thing
[13:45]	Amanda Linden:	true. it's public to web.
[13:45]	Amanda Linden:	and it's our brand, so it needs to be g.
[13:45]	Cummere Mayo:	amanda basically put your moderators are very one sided, play favorites, and all around suck
[13:45]	Mags Indigo:	secondly I do think cultural and language differences can cause some tensions where none were intended
[13:46]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): overall I noticed moderation is way faster during LL office hours than it was with the old forums
[13:46]	Cummere Mayo:	ill explain why
[13:46]	Mags Indigo:	but that's kind of hard to avoid in something that is literally global
[13:46]	Cummere Mayo:	we have users (advisors no less) that get by calling people a bitch... you mention that and YOU get moderated while thier insults pass...
[13:46]	Amanda Linden:	ok, let's hit the playing favorites question.
[13:46]	Mags thats	a good point we should keep in mind
[13:47]	My question	about moderation has to do with subjectivity. Each mod sees things “their” way, i.e. what is a violation and what is not. What one mod may not reject, another will, and has. To me it’s either against the guidelines or it isn’t. Why should we be subject to discipline when the mods do not agree on the guidelines?
[13:47]	Arawn Graalrd	(arawn.spitteler): /me quietrly suggests: You know Anchors, in HTML, can be addressed, as well as containing hyperlinks.
[13:47]	Amanda Linden:	tthey absolutely do not play favorites.
[13:47]	Amanda Linden:	well, there are several folks who moderate--we have 4 of them.
[13:47]	Amanda Linden:	who take turns/shifts.
[13:47]	Amanda Linden:	so, there will be some unevenness there, but they are all working with the same playbook.
[13:47]	Arawn Graalrd	(arawn.spitteler): They might not see favorites, if they think Jews are always put upon wrongly, while Arabs are always terrorists.
[13:48]	Mags Indigo:	???
[13:48]	Amanda Linden:	yikes. if you see that happening, that's not allowed at all arawn
[13:48]	In the	meantime our records are being tarnished and we are being threatened with forum bans.
[13:48]	Venus Petrov:	/me head swivels
[13:48]	Cummere Mayo:	then why is it that if you flag a certian person even if its clearly agaisnt the standards we get threatened. I got threatned twice for directly quoting someone calling me a bitch
[13:48]	Mags Indigo:	I've never seen that happening
[13:48]	Cummere Mayo:	her post still stand unmoderated
[13:48]	Venus Petrov:	i have not issues with the moderation at this time
[13:48]	Amanda Linden:	yikes. send me posts you think are out of line like that.
[13:48]	Arawn Graalrd	(arawn.spitteler): That's just an example, of how bias might be missed; I was just reading a book, that illustrates the racism inherent in Imm unology
[13:48]	I agree	Cummero and see it daily
[13:49]	Amanda Linden:	seriously, racist items are not allowed--that falls under name calling.
[13:49]	Mags Indigo:	neither have I to be honest
[13:49]	Cummere Mayo:	mean time i also got warned for using the term damn good designs
[13:49]	One person	can single out by name yet another gets reprimanded for not using names.
[13:49]	Cummere Mayo:	which is the name of a business
[13:49]	Amanda Linden:	oh, that shouldn't have happened.
[13:49]	Mags Indigo:	I know sometimes 'answering' posts are removed when an offending post is removed
[13:49]	Amanda Linden:	like i said, we're figuring out as we go.
[13:49]	t but	it does every day.
[13:49]	Mags Indigo:	which can irk people a bit
[13:49]	Cummere Mayo:	as is bitchtails another name that got people flamed
[13:49]	Mags Indigo:	but I've never seen any sign of blatant favouritism
[13:49]	Amanda Linden:	ping me when you see things that are questionable.
[13:50]	Amanda Linden:	seriously--help us find the right answers.
[13:50]	Cummere Mayo:	and theres a psot where greenzoners are constantly called terrorists
[13:50]	Cummere Mayo:	its been flagged repeatedly
[13:50]	Marianne McCann:	Cummere, much like the issue with MOsely Sperbers sculpted brds, or going back AOL's mid-90s banning of the word "breast"
[13:50]	Cummere Mayo:	it stands
[13:50]	Mags Indigo:	again I think some of this is about personal interpretation
[13:50]	Another thing	regardarding moderation, no appeals process like before.
[13:50]	Amanda Linden:	the moderation is for everyone's benefit--not to penalize unecessarily
[13:50]	Arawn Graalrd	(arawn.spitteler): What are Red-Zone and GreenZone?
[13:50]	Amanda Linden:	yes, no appeals process.
[13:50]	Amanda Linden:	if someone gets banned, its' because they've gotten 3 wanrings.
[13:50]	Yet penalization	happens due to discriminatory practices.
[13:50]	Amanda Linden:	if you don't respond to 3 warnings, then you're out
[13:50]	Mags Indigo:	and some difficulties with the english language which can be a bit obtuse at times - especially whe it comes to humour
[13:50]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): omg let´s not talk about redzone...
[13:51]	Arawn Graalrd	(arawn.spitteler): Appeals Process is important, and why G-Team quit holding open meetings.
[13:51]	Cummere Mayo:	which is why its really rediculous amanda
[13:51]	Amanda Linden:	no appeals. 3 warnings and it's a one week ban.
[13:51]	Cummere Mayo:	i got 2 warnings on two accounts ... for rediculousness
[13:51]	Amanda Linden:	and it's only for community platform, not for SL
[13:51]	Youri Ashton:	thought the G-Team was dissabondonned years ago
[13:51]	Mags Indigo:	well as long as it's clear and people know - I guess it's fair
[13:51]	Venus Petrov:	The thing about the moderators is that they do not know us and that is as it should be
[13:51]	Mags Indigo:	if a tad stark
[13:51]	Stryker Jenkins:	Amanda... what's 1 week on a live time of SL?
[13:52]	Another thing	is cultural differences in language. What one country regards as common practice and acceptable, other countries see as rude.
[13:52]	Cummere Mayo:	i cant say damn good designs (the name of a business) or quote someone calling me a btich and saying stop
[13:52]	Amanda Linden:	1 week ban on blogs/forums, etc. not for your SL account. meaning, you can still go inworld.
[13:52]	Cummere Mayo:	or i get banned... no appeal
[13:52]	t quote	anything that is against the guidelines
[13:52]	Amanda Linden:	no cummere, you should get a warning.
[13:52]	Venus Petrov:	personal insults are rude in any language
[13:53]	Amanda Linden:	and, they only usually have time to go through the abuse queue--so that means someone reported it.
[13:53]	Some did	by saying "ANY" outting of alts is agaist the TOS. Yet the statement stands despite flaggin it.
[13:53]	Stryker Jenkins:	either way... I have had issues with people who'd laugh about the "penalty"
[13:53]	Cummere Mayo:	why should i? saying dont call me a bitch like you did here "quote" should give me a warning?
[13:53]	Cummere Mayo:	saying the name of a store should give me a warning?
[13:53]	Cummere Mayo:	explain that amanda
[13:53]	Amanda Linden:	the store thing shouldn't be a warning.
[13:53]	Mags Indigo:	the problem with the 'store name' thing is
[13:53]	Amanda Linden:	that was a bad on orur end. agreed.
[13:54]	That is	a contradiction of the TOS and nothing was done to correct it
[13:54]	Mags Indigo:	people can get clever and it's a bit like a kids school yard
[13:54]	Amanda Linden:	if someone calls you a bitch--no need to repsond, just report it.
[13:54]	Cummere Mayo:	i did
[13:54]	Mags Indigo:	put all the 'nasty' words in a name and it's ok
[13:54]	Stryker Jenkins:	on E-bay when you do something wrong your "marked" as such... is that an idea in conjunction with the rank system?? (just thinking out lout here)
[13:54]	Cummere Mayo:	genn moderator then kindly "warned" me about it and let hers stand
[13:54]	Mags Indigo:	I can see how there needs to be some give though
[13:54]	Youri Ashton:	Amanda, you know how childish some people are, you need to be perfectly clear what you do not want someone to call you. Else they keep working on you till you go nuts
[13:54]	Amanda Linden:	:)
[13:55]	That is	not something that is part of the current platform
[13:55]	Arawn Graalrd	(arawn.spitteler): /me fondly remembers being unable to research the inventor of Ivory Soap, due to Community Standards.
[13:55]	DogWomble Dollinger:	well mags if the name itself is extremely vulgar, i'd imagine the name would be considered something reportable, i'm not sure "dan good designs" quite qualifies though
[13:55]	Amanda Linden:	i think the bottom line is that i would love your help to keep the forums/blogs clean and productive.
[13:55]	One example	of no mod response : imagine how much more creative you could be if you spent less time here on these forums...
[13:55]	Stryker Jenkins:	well maybe give it some more thought Lexie...
[13:55]	Amanda Linden:	you're bringing up some good examples of edge cases.
[13:55]	Youri Ashton:	if someone calls you a name, you should be able to say "Please do not call me "word", thank you
[13:55]	Amanda Linden:	so, let's figure 'em out one by one. just email me when you have an issue. it will help me better train/inform the moderators going forward.
[13:56]	Cummere Mayo:	exactly youri
[13:56]	Another same	thread :Don't worry, Susp. Even if post limits are instituted (doubtful that will happen, though limits during a post-registration probation period might help control the L$ scam spam), you'll be top PW.
[13:56]	Youri Ashton:	else you pretty much kill the rights on the victims and increase the rights for griefers
[13:56]	Time Minder:	You have been online for 1 hours.
[13:56]	Amanda Linden:	fair point. but, no one should be using those words and name calling.
[13:56]	I can	list over 20 posts singling out with nothing done to stop it
[13:56]	Amanda Linden:	just report it.
[13:56]	if its	a problem it should be reported instead of breaking the guidelines
[13:56]	I have	and was told I can't
[13:56]	Mags Indigo:	agreed
[13:57]	Youri Ashton:	it's like allowing people to get in, but they do need to have their cuffs on
[13:57]	Stryker Jenkins:	in ranking as such, and answering questions by fellow resis in general, the avarage Joe want's to know if he can "trust" the answer.
[13:57]	Amanda Linden:	exactly lexie
[13:57]	Cummere Mayo:	amanda for the thrid time WE HAVE reported it
[13:57]	Cummere Mayo:	your mods PLAY FAVORITES
[13:57]	Amanda Linden:	ok, would lvoe you to send me info on your example.
[13:57]	Amanda Linden:	if they are playing favorites, then i need to know and put a stop to it
[13:57]	I will	be sending you 100 examples :)
[13:57]	Cummere Mayo:	I did already
[13:57]	Cummere Mayo:	last week
[13:57]	Amanda Linden:	ha
[13:57]	Amanda Linden:	kk, will go back in my email.
[13:57]	Amanda Linden:	didn't see that one
[13:58]	Amanda Linden:	resend it
[13:58]	Arawn Graalrd	(arawn.spitteler): Get the precise lines, Cummere, so the moderation could be reviewed, 100 sounds like a good start
[13:58]	Youri Ashton:	lexie: I am aware of that, but I think it might be better to allow people to try to solve it first, if not working 9civilized way of course) then fill in a AR Report
[13:58]	Cummere Mayo:	pm to your community inbox
[13:58]	Amanda Linden:	ok, we're at the end of our time and we got through our whole agenda!
[13:58]	Amanda Linden:	ah, didn't look there. :) will do
[13:58]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): yay :)
[13:58]	Amanda Linden:	thanks all--ossm discussion.
[13:58]	Agreed Youri	but you do not need to use the word again and break guidelines to resolve it
[13:58]	Mags Indigo:	whew - full aganda
[13:58]	Another allowed	to stand: Preposterous here are your tendencies in improving your rank on top of everybody else, which you apparantly cannot achieve by a high count of appreciated answers in the answer section of the forums, so you try to discredit the advocation of containing the overflow of the quantity of threads created elsewhere.
[13:58]	Raymond Linden:	Thanks All
[13:59]	Lots of	good feedback. We are listening ã‹¡
[13:59]	Youri Ashton:	I often come across griefers, and i manage to get them out just by warning them to clean up/stop.
[13:59]	Cummere Mayo:	lexie if you dont use the word they respond with "Waht wrold"
[13:59]	Venus Petrov:	I suggest that is a discussion point Suspiria
[13:59]	Stryker Jenkins:	it's not the listening thats worries us... its what you do with the information ... LOL
[13:59]	Assumptions by	you are tiresome and harassing
[13:59]	Mags Indigo:	hmmm if all discussion/argument is disallowed the forums die surely
[13:59]	Venus Petrov:	thank you for your opinion
[14:00]	Tomkin Euler:	:)
[14:00]	Mags Indigo:	and often people take umbrage because of the people who respond rather than by the response itself
[14:00]	Amanda Linden:	thanks to everyone.
[14:00]	Thank you	and goodbye
[14:00]	Amanda Linden:	we covered a lot of ground today.
[14:00]	Amanda Linden:	'til next week!
[14:00]	Venus Petrov:	thank you ã‹¡
[14:00]
[14:00]	Stryker Jenkins:	Bye Bye!
[14:00]	Youri Ashton:	aight, thank you for the OH, ill be off to Terrence. Love to see what he's upto
[14:00]	If you	want more examples I will happily provide them as how you follow me around to forum posting your condescention
[14:00]	Mags Indigo:	thanks Linden people
[14:00]	Amanda Linden:	thanks all! i heart this user group!
[14:00]	Bye for	now!
[14:00]	Mags Indigo:	another informative meeting
[14:00]	Cummere Mayo:	amanda if you want to wait two minutes im gonan show you something allwoed to stand by your mods
[14:00]	Doctor Gascoigne:	bye
[14:00]	Arawn Graalrd	(arawn.spitteler): /me reminds one and all: Good practice in Trawling never violates the commuunity standards, but encourages others to do so
[14:00]	See you	next week
[14:00]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): bye all
[14:00]	Marianne McCann:	By the same token, Mags, there are some there I'll never bother to respond to, because they'll go into ad hominem
[14:01]	Marianne McCann:	Thanks Amanda, Lexie, and all
[14:01]	Amanda Linden:	need to run cummere, but i'll look at your PM
[14:01]	Torben Bailey	(torben.trautman): /me waves
[14:01]	Mags Indigo:	agreed Marianne
[14:01]	Amanda Linden:	/me waves.
[14:01]
[14:01]	Youri Ashton:	teleports fail
[14:01]	Youri Ashton:	gonne zone and try agian
[14:01]	Arawn Graalrd	(arawn.spitteler): /me quickly ripples.
[14:01]	Marianne McCann:	Just don't RedZone, Youri /me winks
[14:01]	Mags Indigo:	although I always feel a bit 'rough' for excluding people from my forum discussions (ignoring) sometimes it seems to be the easiest way
[14:02]	Mags Indigo:	/me shrugs
[14:02]	Mags Indigo:	anyway
[14:02]	Mags Indigo:	almost bedtime for me
[14:02]	Mags Indigo:	night all
[14:02]	Marianne McCann:	Mags - can't help those who don't want help
[14:02]	Mags Indigo:	see you inworld or forums or somewhere no doubt
[14:02]	Mags Indigo:	true Marianne
[14:02]	Mags Indigo:	but I'm a stubborn old goat
[14:02]	Marianne McCann:	Have fun, all!
[14:02]	Amanda Linden:	jeremy--did you grab transcript?
[14:02]	Amanda Linden	has pinged you.
[14:02]	Marianne McCann:	Bye Bye!!
[14:02]	Mags Indigo:	I'll try to moderate that :-)
[14:03]	Jeremy Linden:	I can, Amanda. Discussing a new transcript tool with Rand.
[14:03]	Amanda Linden:	kk, just makin' sure it gets grabbed. :)

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