Doc Team/2010-04-07

Transcript

[12:59]	Daniel Voyager:	Hey Jeremy
[12:59]	Daniel Voyager	has pinged you.
[13:00]	Jeremy Linden:	Uh... Trouble sitting, Youri?
[13:00]	Jorge Erin:	Hi Everyone
[13:00]	Jeremy Linden:	Hello, all!
[13:00]	Youri Ashton:	lol, yup
[13:00]	Jorge Erin:	Hi Jeremy
[13:00]	Jorge Erin	has pinged you.
[13:00]	Maxine Kohime:	good day all *smiles
[13:00]	Nathan Adored:	hello everyone
[13:00]	Youri Ashton:	got problems with SL all day already =
[13:00]	Nathan Adored:	yeah
[13:00]	Second Life:	Entering god mode, level 200
[13:00]	Youri Ashton:	brb
[13:01]	Torley Linden:	IT'S TIME TO ROCK OUT... or something like that.
[13:01]	Daniel Voyager:	hey Torley
[13:01]	Jorge Erin:	Hi Torley
[13:01]	Maxine Kohime:	`*~*`WooT WooT`*~*`
[13:01]	Maxine Kohime:	hi Torley *smiles
[13:01]	Torley Linden:	It's all rezzing in for me... I always like seeing how avatars have changed from one week to the next.
[13:02]	Nathan Adored:	grrrr..... I go to sit down, and suddenly my viewer thinks I'm at 1, 0, 0
[13:02]	Torley Linden:	Yikes Nathan, did it do that thing where it looks like you're in the water?
[13:02]	Nathan Adored:	yeah
[13:02]	Daniel Voyager:	cool music Torley
[13:02]	Jeremy Linden:	I don't see Nathan's textures at all.
[13:03]	Youri Ashton:	bk
[13:03]	Youri Ashton:	oh hi torley!
[13:03]	Daniel Voyager:	wb
[13:03]	Youri Ashton:	ty
[13:03]	Torley Linden:	OHAI
[13:03]	Sooden Ren:	never any music at meatting
[13:03]	Torley Linden:	So what's new and exciting for us? Any hot topics on your minds?
[13:03]	Sooden Ren:	there we go
[13:04]	Daniel Voyager:	Went to Viewer2Tips island the other day..really good :)
[13:04]	Maxine Kohime:	strange Ava, Torley, so scary *giggles behind a hand
[13:04]	Sooden Ren:	it ver bad, brb
[13:04]	Torley Linden:	Thanks Daniel, and there'll be a wiki version of it soon after I get graphics from Kate...
[13:04]	Torley Linden:	Haha, this avatar was made to test alpha masks. I try to make learning fun.
[13:04]	Youri Ashton:	getting some odd assignments lately as NON linden lately... but oh well... :p
[13:04]	Torley Linden:	As you can see my normal head isn't there... at all... no invisiprims or another kludge.
[13:05]	Youri Ashton:	im on 1.23 torley, i do see your head
[13:05]	Youri Ashton:	well... hair actually
[13:05]	Torley Linden:	Holy Skills, that's a clever titling trick!
[13:05]	Jeremy Linden:	Alpha masks should render properly on 1.23
[13:05]	Youri Ashton:	1.23.3 nightly
[13:05]	Torley Linden:	Yah, what Jeremy said... sometimes they DO take awhile to disappear...
[13:05]	Torley Linden	has pinged you.
[13:05]	Daniel Voyager:	nice fish Torley *giggles*
[13:05]	Skills Hak:	oh i can't see it atm
[13:05]	Maxine Kohime:	I see a kind od a fish^^
[13:06]	Jeremy Linden:	However, I think hair and eyes are separate masks from "head"
[13:06]	Sooden Ren:	arwan... what this meating about?
[13:06]	Torley Linden:	It sez Skills <3, how'd you do that?
[13:06]	Skills Hak:	it's fixed already, was fun while it lasted :)
[13:06]	Skills Hak:	it was a cosmetic "bug" in group titles
[13:06]	Torley Linden:	Sooden, here is where we discuss Second Life documentation... help... tips & tricks, there's a WANTED signboard by Jeremy.
[13:06]	Torley Linden	has pinged you.
[13:06]	Dawny Daviau:	hello all! :)
[13:06]	Jeremy Linden:	:-D
[13:07]	Torley Linden:	Skills those baggy pants are pretty awesome too.
[13:07]	Skills Hak:	haha thanks :D
[13:07]	Torley Linden:	TOASTXOR as you can see I am jammin' with yer creation.
[13:07]	Arawn Spitteler:	Hi, Soo, just reading the minutes from a meeting I missed.
[13:07]	TOASTXOR Stoop:	yeah!
[13:07]	Sooden Ren:	so i not silly looking ... what is the meatins topic?
[13:07]	Torley Linden:	You are gearrific!
[13:07]	TOASTXOR Stoop:	im glad you like it
[13:07]	TOASTXOR Stoop:	thanks!
[13:07]	Torley Linden:	We usually don't have a single topic but some areas of focus come up -- we're quite relaxed and freeform.
[13:07]	Youri Ashton:	lol, was wondering who created that wonderous thing :)
[13:07]	Daniel Voyager:	Added a few nice pics to https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Discovery_Island
[13:07]	Daniel Voyager:	:)
[13:08]	Jeremy Linden:	No particular topic at this meeting, but we do prefer to talk about Second Life online help, and how people learn SL.
[13:08]	Arawn Spitteler:	Doc team discusses Documentation of Second Life; you should drop in more often
[13:08]	Torley Linden:	Cool Daniel, lemme review that right now... or you know you can normally as you're a reviewer... anyhoo...
[13:08]	Sooden Ren:	well, that aside
[13:08]	Daniel Voyager:	kk
[13:09]	Sooden Ren:	there is something i reale wanna ask
[13:09]	Sooden Ren:	forgot in the othere metting
[13:09]	Bronson Blackadder:	hoe I didnt land on anyone
[13:09]	Bronson Blackadder:	hope
[13:09]	Nathan Adored:	crud, crashed
[13:09]	Youri Ashton:	oh, perhaps a good thing to tell kate her land is being used as a sandbox once again
[13:09]	Sooden Ren:	you know how we can make our own enviroment settings
[13:09]	Kaine Lowenstark:	somebody has a broken mystitool XD
[13:09]	Jeremy Linden:	Go for it, Sooden, but we're not necessarily experts on non-help (text) stuff.
[13:09]	Chaley May:	i noticed SL Discovery Island uses Mega Prims and I thought Lindens mainly avoid using them in theri builds.. is this a sign that maybe we will get mega prims returning for normal use??
[13:09]	Youri Ashton:	she should turn on auto return :p
[13:10]	Bronson Blackadder:	thats prolly me
[13:10]	Sooden Ren:	i wanna know when we can save them as object we can tranfewr to otheres
[13:10]	Youri Ashton:	no, some newbies
[13:10]	Roth Grut:	Boa tarde ou noite a todos....
[13:10]	Roth Grut:	Good afternoon or evening to all ....
[13:10]	Bronson Blackadder:	yep thats mine
[13:10]	Torley Linden:	Chaley, not necessarily. In this case megaprims did help solve a design problem.
[13:11]	Tillie Ariantho:	WAH audio spam!
[13:11]	Nathan Adored:	what sort of design problem?
[13:11]	Arawn Spitteler:	Design Problem? I thought the basic design problem, was how to design without megaprims?
[13:11]	Chaley May:	cant get moch mroe of a design problem than prims being too small :D
[13:11]	Youri Ashton:	no tillie
[13:11]	Jeremy Linden:	Environment settings are not currently easily tradable between avatars, Sooden. Right now, the best way to share them is by sending someone the saved XML file from your PC.
[13:11]	Youri Ashton:	thats torley playing :p
[13:11]	Jorge Erin:	:)
[13:11]	Tillie Ariantho:	^^
[13:11]	Torley Linden:	Hm, well Chaley, which megaprims are you specifically referring to?
[13:11]	Youri Ashton:	he found a new toy :p
[13:11]	Kaine Lowenstark:	lol Poor Andrew Linden is gunning for megas more then I am.
[13:12]	Youri Ashton:	hey mari :)
[13:12]	Nathan Adored:	gunning?
[13:12]	Torley Linden:	(I may have to take a trip back there to refresh my memory!)
[13:12]	Nathan Adored:	as in shooting at, or as in using?
[13:12]	Chaley May:	i would just love to see a huge increase in the size of prims
[13:12]	Marianne McCann:	Hiya
[13:12]	Sooden Ren:	realy need to work on that and make them scriptibal too, so we can triger seting for places
[13:12]	Kaine Lowenstark:	( shooting for, wanting, pushing for )
[13:12]	Skills Hak:	i think something like that is in the works o.o
[13:12]	Nathan Adored:	so, someone wants to allow us to make megaprims again?
[13:12]	Sooden Ren:	if i had beter liginh in me sim, i could half the detail in mt trxtures
[13:12]	Chaley May:	the huge prims are all over in SL Discovery.. msotly platforms
[13:12]	Sooden Ren:	tetures
[13:12]	Skills Hak:	no idea if i can say that lol
[13:12]	Sooden Ren:	texture*
[13:13]	Youri Ashton:	i sure hope not
[13:13]	Kaine Lowenstark:	Qarl's mesh team wants mega mesh's as well I had thought
[13:13]	Youri Ashton:	i hate those darned things
[13:13]	Torley Linden:	Chaley, it's fun to bounce around eh? Hehe we worked with Ill Clan on that, including Damien Fate who built that, directly.
[13:13]	Marianne McCann:	's true. Doscovery and I believe Welcome both use Megas. Surprised me
[13:13]	Nathan Adored:	for some reason I seem to be stuck as a cloud right now
[13:13]	Bronson Blackadder:	I would be happy for mega prims but only if I can return a 40x40x40 sphere that has 7 meters overhanging my land
[13:13]	Torley Linden:	Megaprims used by those who are adept and knowledgeable is cool, the problem is those who are uninformed and do so without knowledge of side effects.
[13:13]	Chaley May:	yes it looks nice.. SL discovery is an example why we need to be supporting mega prims for building and selling
[13:13]	Youri Ashton:	too many people dont know how to use them propperly resulting in a excellent griefer tool
[13:14]	Chaley May:	people dont make builds to sell with megaprims because they are unsure about them
[13:14]	Torley Linden:	And Bronson points out one of the longtime things, we don't YET have better tools to deal with problems where a prim's root is on neighboring land.
[13:14]	Marianne McCann:	Youri - yes. Had to deal with someone griefing with attached megas in one of the hubs last night.
[13:14]	Nathan Adored:	EEK!
[13:14]	Roth Grut:	poderia haver filtro com idade minima de sl para uso de megaprims, por exemplo
[13:14]	Roth Grut:	there could be a filter with minimum age for use of megaprims sl, for example
[13:14]	Kaine Lowenstark:	Bronson 1.40 Is the first of Andrews updateson how parcel and sim borders are handled
[13:14]	Torley Linden:	So specifically, with the new Linden orientation experience, those megaprims are staying put, they're not going to rove and cause someone to cry all night.
[13:14]	Kaine Lowenstark:	Attack him ^^
[13:15]	Youri Ashton:	not just that mari, they let them hang in the air or hide them in the ground as well
[13:15]	Youri Ashton:	prefered invisible
[13:15]	Youri Ashton:	around waterhead and pooley thats usually the case
[13:15]	Sooden Ren:	oh remeber somthing a was asked to ask at a linden meting by othere Sl people, well quest
[13:15]	Torley Linden:	I use a bunch of megaprims on Here and one of the most badass usages I've seen recently are those extended landscapes that Sominel made.
[13:15]	Sooden Ren:	and i dont 100% agree this it
[13:15]	Bronson Blackadder:	looking forward to 1.40
[13:15]	Bronson Blackadder:	:)
[13:15]	Kaine Lowenstark:	o/
[13:15]	Youri Ashton:	anyways, whats this about the CG's i been hearing? LL has a new idea?
[13:16]	Torley Linden:	What have you heard specifically, Youri? And your source?
[13:16]	Youri Ashton:	lol, i dont tell this source :)
[13:16]	Nathan Adored:	CG?s
[13:16]	Skills Hak:	.____.
[13:16]	Sooden Ren:	but some of my simiuns want me to stop no SL browser entering the sim
[13:16]	Nathan Adored:	Computer Generated?
[13:16]	Youri Ashton:	i can just tell a bit more as well
[13:16]	Jeremy Linden:	Torley, can you please stop looping that 80's song?
[13:16]	Chaley May:	if griefers want to grief people with mega prims they allready have them... the only people not using megaprims are the ones who would use them for good buildings
[13:16]	Youri Ashton:	i been told that LL was letting the CG's go for a new project
[13:16]	Kaine Lowenstark:	lol. Does " the meeting presentation board they forgot up in the sim beside SLDev" count as a source ^^
[13:17]	Youri Ashton:	something that seemed to be better in the eyes of LL
[13:17]	Nathan Adored:	WHo or what is a CG?
[13:17]	Chaley May:	i was born in the 80's
[13:17]	Youri Ashton:	community gateway
[13:17]	Torley Linden:	OH MY GOSH it's me? So sorry! Is it the keytar!?
[13:17]	Nathan Adored:	ah
[13:17]	Torley Linden:	XD
[13:17]	Torley Linden:	I'll detach it for now... TOASTXOR I had no idea this actually played music.
[13:17]	Jeremy Linden:	THANK YOU :-D
[13:17]	Skills Hak:	haha
[13:17]	TOASTXOR Stoop:	haha
[13:17]	Torley Linden:	I deserved to be abuse reported.
[13:17]	Daniel Voyager:	hehe
[13:17]	Chaley May:	i liked the music lol
[13:17]	Dawny Daviau:	GRIEFER xD
[13:17]	Torley Linden:	Hahaha.
[13:17]	Youri Ashton:	as i said, torley has a new toy :p
[13:17]	Jeremy Linden:	It's awesome, but distracting when pages of text are flying past :-)
[13:17]	Kaine Lowenstark:	and here I thought it was parcel media
[13:18]	Torley Linden:	Yeah it was totally nonintentional. I have sound off on my Windows machine right now.
[13:18]	Sooden Ren:	0fnail a fait that fits me
[13:18]	Youri Ashton:	no you dont torley, we know you love showing your new things :)
[13:18]	Chaley May:	orley is a griefer of the eyes and now ears :P
[13:18]	Youri Ashton:	you like new things as much as we do :)
[13:18]	Nathan Adored:	㋡
[13:18]	Torley Linden:	Haha Chaley, three more senses to go.
[13:18]	Arawn Spitteler:	With MoaP, couldn't Torley just upload his keyboard live?
[13:19]	Jeremy Linden:	Oh man, I could live without smell griefing.
[13:19]	Torley Linden:	I've hd to be more conscious of what Shared Media is playing, too... I wish in some cases we could independently make just the video show sans sound.
[13:19]	Youri Ashton:	but anyways, what about it? is that anyways near accurate? what i been hearing? euhm... heared a date... 31st april or something?
[13:19]	Torley Linden:	Youri, I couldn't comment without source and details, that's too vague for me to understand.
[13:19]	Youri Ashton:	lol, np
[13:19]	Sooden Ren:	welcome shadowfax :)
[13:20]	Torley Linden:	And also Madhavi and Katrin prolly know more on that front...
[13:20]	Skills Hak:	i heard something too but i cant tell you what. is it true?
[13:20]	Torley Linden:	Skills XD
[13:20]	Youri Ashton:	i just can not tell source, was a promise to that person not to tell :)
[13:20]	Maxine Kohime:	there is no 21st april? april has only 30 days?
[13:20]	Arawn Spitteler:	/me hasn't heard anything, yet, and wonders if thqat's true
[13:20]	Torley Linden:	You'd be surprised how often that comes up on the blogs or forums...
[13:20]	Maxine Kohime:	what you talking about?
[13:20]	Kaine Lowenstark:	That would be cool. So far all you can do is reupload without the audio track
[13:20]	Youri Ashton:	i know, thats why i asked
[13:20]	Nathan Adored:	Well, there's definetely a TWENTY-first of April. :D
[13:20]	Youri Ashton:	could be 12th as well
[13:20]	Torley Linden:	"I heard from a friend that a Linden said..." and I always ask, "Which friend? Which Linden? Why don't they come and ask me directly?"
[13:21]	Maxine Kohime:	lol
[13:21]	Youri Ashton:	hell, i didnt pay that much attention to just another stoy :p
[13:21]	Nathan Adored:	Eeek! I'm in my underwear! :D
[13:21]	Youri Ashton:	story*
[13:21]	Kaine Lowenstark:	I gave a source :P
[13:21]	Torley Linden:	I know some gossip can be fun but too often it leads to scares and an incredibly useless amount of fear.
[13:21]	Youri Ashton:	the ladies wont mind nathan ;)
[13:21]	Kaine Lowenstark:	lol. Does " the meeting presentation board they forgot up in the sim beside SLDev" count as a source ^^
[13:21]	Torley Linden:	Have any of you been following that "secret dairy" on the forums?
[13:21]	Torley Linden:	It's a joke but some people took it seriously...
[13:22]	Maxine Kohime:	thats silly^^
[13:22]	Youri Ashton:	im not reading pretty much anything on the forums torley :p
[13:22]	Arawn Spitteler:	Diary or Dairy?
[13:22]	Youri Ashton:	heared it over IM :)
[13:22]	Chaley May:	i dont read them forums either
[13:22]	Kaine Lowenstark:	Yeah the forums increasingly difficult to... navigate for an old almost 20 like me
[13:22]	Jeremy Linden:	Secret dairy sounds tasty, as long as it's not expired.
[13:23]	Skills Hak:	forums are like "chinese whispers"
[13:23]	Torley Linden:	by the time I spit it out it was in CHUNKS.
[13:23]	Torley Linden:	Last month I drank stale milk... eww http://www ...
[13:23]	Nathan Adored:	or like the telephone game>
[13:23]	Bronson Blackadder:	you done that too?
[13:23]	Nathan Adored:	?
[13:23]	Kaine Lowenstark:	X_x dont tell people that torley
[13:23]	Arawn Spitteler:	Stale Ewe's Milk? It must havebeen ater Imbolc
[13:24]	Youri Ashton:	i cant drink pure milk, makes me stomach upset for the rest of the day
[13:24]	Marianne McCann:	Ouch
[13:24]	Ardy Lay:	Torley, I put cottage cheese in my sister's milk after she was mean to me. She made a mess.
[13:24]	Shadowfax Mistwood:	Sounds like one of our meetings....have to get back to work got a world to save
[13:24]	Torley Linden:	Ever had Rice Dream? There's a chocolate mint formula or something, it was surprisingly refreshing.
[13:24]	Nathan Adored:	crud. "Can't change appearance until clothing and shape are loaded." Grrrr...
[13:24]	Torley Linden:	What a prank, Ardy! :O
[13:25]	Youri Ashton:	thats not for sale here... or to my knowlage...
[13:25]	Youri Ashton:	relog nathan
[13:25]	Marianne McCann:	Nathan. Try wearing an outfit out of your appearance pane. It force loads your avatar
[13:25]	Torley Linden:	Oh and if any of you are on YouTube, the official Second Life channel is @ http://youtube.com/secondlife and I'm adding new videos regularly... or irregularly, ha ha ha :)
[13:25]	Kaine Lowenstark:	never heard of it in Canada
[13:25]	Marianne McCann:	(The "shirt" icon in the right dsidebar)
[13:26]	Youri Ashton:	oh interresting
[13:26]	Maxine Kohime:	using emerals, he has no sidebar
[13:26]	Youri Ashton:	ill press follow :p
[13:26]	Torley Linden:	It's still a bit tricky to align some kinds of Shared Media to fill a prim (without using the HTML wrapper trick I showed earlier) so that may be a forthcoming tip...
[13:26]	Marianne McCann:	Ah. Then ya, relog
[13:26]	Youri Ashton:	and yes torley, i following you as well :p
[13:26]	Youri Ashton:	for about a year now infact
[13:26]	Nathan Adored:	relog? me?
[13:26]	Youri Ashton:	yeah
[13:26]	Youri Ashton:	should solve your problem
[13:27]	Kaine Lowenstark:	Yeah in order to get a video to fit I embedded them in a page on my website
[13:27]	Marianne McCann:	Ya, looking at how I can use Shared Media for promoting the Bay City Anniversary this year. Should be fun
[13:27]	Youri Ashton:	or do what marianne told you
[13:27]	Torley Linden:	Kaine, I wonder if http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Shared_Media_wrapper would help you?
[13:27]	Marianne McCann:	Ya, the "outfit from the appearance pane" was a trick I puzzled out a time ago, given appearance not loading
[13:28]	Torley Linden:	It's faster in that you don't need to upload a webpage... using data: URIs is cool.
[13:28]	Kaine Lowenstark:	reading the title I say yes 8D
[13:28]	Youri Ashton:	i have a strange feeling the viewer is about to crash... AGIAN
[13:29]	Kaine Lowenstark:	:( no thats what Ive already done
[13:29]	Torley Linden:	But yeah as a great followup feature for Shared Media it'd be nice if it could align non-square stuff and even resize the prim without having to do ratio calculations and stuff... that gets crazy.
[13:29]	Bronson Blackadder:	see you in a minute then Youri :)
[13:29]	Marianne McCann:	Argh. Hate when the focus gets stolen
[13:29]	Torley Linden:	Maybe there's a scripted way to automate all that in the meantime.
[13:29]
[13:29]	Youri Ashton:	lol, yeah think ill be relogging SL now
[13:29]	Nathan Adored:	crud, now I'm at 10, 10, 10
[13:29]	Youri Ashton:	before it kicks me out for 5 mins
[13:29]	Bronson Blackadder:	noooooo not scripts
[13:29]	Bronson Blackadder:	nooooooo
[13:29]	Youri Ashton:	brb
[13:30]	Torley Linden:	I'm already hearing from people who ask "I have a 1280x720 video, how big should I make my prim?" and once you have a good ratio calculator it's straightforward but still not as direct as it could... or should be.
[13:30]	Marianne McCann:	Do you have a bad connection, Nathan? It sounds like it
[13:30]	Torley Linden:	I see Nathan as ruthed right now.
[13:30]	Nathan Adored:	my modem is showing 6 bars (it's a wireless highspeed-internet thing)
[13:30]	Kaine Lowenstark:	I have an 800 by 600 px website
[13:30]	Kaine Lowenstark:	that just looks lost on web on a prim
[13:30]	Torley Linden:	BTW Mari and Nathan re: your child avatar query from last week, I fwded to legal but haven't heard anything back.
[13:31]	Torley Linden:	A few other people like Loki wrote in about it, too.
[13:31]	Torley Linden:	Kaine, did you try turning Auto-Resize off and manually setting to 800x600?
[13:31]	Nathan Adored:	Loki Eliot, you mean?
[13:31]	Marianne McCann:	Thanks, Torley. I hate to impose, but could you nudge 'em a bit?
[13:31]	Maxine Kohime:	btw, knowledge base, I was never able to solve a problem with using knowledge base
[13:31]	Marianne McCann:	Like I said, I get the intent, but imperfect language drives an obsessive like me nuts
[13:31]	Torley Linden:	Yes, Nathan, I presume you already know him!
[13:31]	Kaine Lowenstark:	No, because some of the pages are larger
[13:31]	Marianne McCann:	/me giggles
[13:32]	Jeremy Linden:	You can define the viewing area of Shared Media in pixels... just make sure you hit the "Align" button afterward and make the prim the right aspect ratio.
[13:32]	Nathan Adored:	Yup, rubbed elbows with him here and there... :D
[13:32]	Torley Linden:	Mari, yes -- but to set expectations, sometimes it can (because legal things are tricky that way) can take several months to change.
[13:32]	Maxine Kohime:	I made a suport ticket for a problem, answers was use knowlegde base, I did, but it still doesnt work
[13:32]	Torley Linden:	Maxine, can you please clarify?
[13:32]	Marianne McCann:	Oh yes. Hadda deal with legal before on other, similar stuff.
[13:32]	Kaine Lowenstark:	if Imake it 800 by 600, will it auto add the scrobb bar?
[13:33]	Maxine Kohime:	oki
[13:33]	Kaine Lowenstark:	and will the scroll bar, normally 15 pixels, mean a left right scroll is added too?
[13:33]	Maxine Kohime:	I wanted to become a premium member
[13:33]	Maxine Kohime:	it didnt worked
[13:33]	Torley Linden:	Kaine, hm, to eliminate the scrollbar, if you can edit the HTML of the page, there are settings to ALWAYS hide scrollbars.
[13:33]	Maxine Kohime:	I made a support ticket
[13:33]	Torley Linden:	Like on that page, <body marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" topmargin="0" leftmargin="0" rightmargin="0" bottommargin="0" style="overflow:hidden">
[13:33]	Torley Linden:	Specifically, style="overflow:hidden"
[13:34]	Tillie Ariantho:	Maxine: did you ever expect a helpful answer? I tried to get online help several times. What I got told: we dont support Win7, we dont support 64bit OS, clean cache, reinstall, reboot, relog. Never got any helpful reply yet. :P
[13:34]	Youri Ashton:	omg, not agian. again im not rezzing
[13:34]	Maxine Kohime:	I got the answer to repeat the process decribed in knowledge base, but it dosnt help
[13:34]	Maxine Kohime:	I still cant
[13:34]	Jeremy Linden:	I'm not sure how the scrollbars interact with web content, in terms of spacing.
[13:34]	Torley Linden:	HOLY CRAP
[13:34]	Torley Linden:	WHAT A HAT
[13:34]	Nathan Adored:	Youri: I'm SLOWLY rezzing here.....
[13:34]	Bronson Blackadder:	youri? are you using you famous vapor cloud AV?
[13:34]	Jeremy Linden:	Kaine, is your website public?
[13:34]	Musical Frakture:	do you want one?
[13:34]	Youri Ashton:	lol bron
[13:35]	Kaine Lowenstark:	yeah
[13:35]	Torley Linden:	Thx for da hat.
[13:35]	Bronson Blackadder:	first time I say the vapor cloud I thought... god damn I want an AV like that... where the hell do you buy it?
[13:35]	Youri Ashton:	2.0 refuses to get on SL, the 1.23 viewer keeps kicking me off and emerald doesnt want me on for long either
[13:35]	Kaine Lowenstark:	http://www.beyondtimedesign.com
[13:35]	Youri Ashton:	lol
[13:35]	Maxine Kohime:	Tillie, I know, in former times I found help on help island
[13:35]	Musical Frakture:	np
[13:35]	Kaine Lowenstark:	a vertical scroll is fine
[13:35]	Musical Frakture:	it was a bribe
[13:35]	Kaine Lowenstark:	its a horizontal scroll I dont want
[13:35]	Tillie Ariantho:	Maxine: :P
[13:35]	Nathan Adored:	I've heard ppl state that they been told by the help desk people: "Your problem is you're not using the SL viewer. Uninstall Emerand and try this again wit the SL viwer." when the problem is clearly at the server end.
[13:36]	Arawn Spitteler:	/me think the nw Ruth Avi t be ovrly coorful,and wats the old on back.
[13:36]	Youri Ashton:	another relog then... perhaps it helps.... :o
[13:36]	Nathan Adored:	or someting of the sort
[13:36]	Sooden Ren:	sorry to but in but...
[13:36]	Sooden Ren:	when is the next merting on the V2 client
[13:36]	Marianne McCann:	Nathan - Yes, I saw that mentioned on a JIRA entry the other day. The one about no accepted or decline messages
[13:36]	Arawn Spitteler:	Well Butt, Soo, ask first
[13:36]	Jeremy Linden:	Kaine, looks like no scroll bars.
[13:36]	Torley Linden:	Yay live Shared Media demo from Jeremy!
[13:36]	Torley Linden	has pinged you.
[13:37]	Torley Linden:	Nice picture on that page. :)
[13:37]	Nathan Adored:	I think maybe the ppl at the help department ought to have a talking to....
[13:37]	Tillie Ariantho:	Yup, they have to.
[13:37]	KirstenLee Cinquetti:	neat :)
[13:38]	Youri Ashton:	there we go
[13:38]	Tillie Ariantho:	They always treat you as noob first, and you have a hard time to prove you are an experienced resident and there is REALLY a problem.
[13:38]	Sooden Ren:	i so sgonna script a brike
[13:38]	Kaine Lowenstark:	everythings 800 by 600 other then the portfolio and the blog
[13:38]	Marianne McCann:	Nathan - you could have had my experience asking for a sim reset in Shermerville NW. I was told that I needed to contact the estate owner and had my ticket closed
[13:38]	Kaine Lowenstark:	and they do get both I think
[13:38]	Marianne McCann:	(Shermerville NW is mainland)
[13:38]	Tillie Ariantho:	I wonder why they not just open your profile when you contact them to see who you are ...
[13:38]	Nathan Adored:	LOL
[13:38]	Torley Linden:	Tillie, I have suggested before that like some other companies (Dreamhost comes to mind), when filling out a support ticket, you can indicate how experienced you believe yourself to be.
[13:39]	Tillie Ariantho:	At least I found the chat with the online help guys pretty refreshing... NOT!
[13:39]	Nathan Adored:	whispers: ROFL
[13:39]	Arawn Spitteler:	If the knew what hey wee doin, in Second Life, how could tey appeciatethe trubles that Noobs have?
[13:39]	Tillie Ariantho:	Torley: good idea.
[13:39]	Torley Linden:	This is fun watching pages go by.
[13:39]	Torley Linden:	Ooh video!
[13:39]	Kaine Lowenstark:	See how the portfolio SHOULD be fine, as its 800
[13:39]	Marianne McCann:	That would be useful, Torley. Not in a bragging way, but jes to get more targeted help. Some of us have been 'round the bend here more than once
[13:39]	Kaine Lowenstark:	but because the scroll bar is added on the side
[13:40]	Kaine Lowenstark:	it now needs a scroll on the bottom?
[13:40]	Nathan Adored:	I suspect a lot of the help desk ppl just want to take whatever the easiest action is on help calls, even if it's the lazy one.
[13:40]	Torley Linden:	Exactly, Mari. Some people have been through a LOT before and don't need to repeat those basic steps.
[13:40]	Marianne McCann:	It's like calling a help desk and being asked if yer computer is plugged in
[13:40]	Marianne McCann:	/me winks
[13:40]	Tillie Ariantho:	I should create a small intro text that I copy in first... something like "3 year resident, sim owner, experienced LSL scripter, and YES, there IS a problem" :P
[13:40]	Chaley May:	I am wondering.. how experienced is the support staff? Do they have knowledge of SL comparable to most of us here?
[13:40]	Marianne McCann:	It's like the "did you check the knowledge base" drop down
[13:41]	Jeremy Linden:	Heh. Dell used to have (maybe still does) silver and gold level certifications that would let you bypass a lot of the scripted help talks.
[13:41]	Marianne McCann:	That's cool, Jeremy
[13:41]	Marianne McCann	has pinged you.
[13:41]	Torley Linden:	Whenever there are documentation links we can fill, we get on it really quickly. Some stuff is dependent on hearing back from other Lindens.
[13:41]	Torley Linden:	I didn't know that with Dell!
[13:41]	Nathan Adored:	Yeah, how many of these are ppl who don't have much experience with SL, and are just folloing a bunch of premade checklists in a screen?
[13:41]	KirstenLee Cinquetti:	Can media on a prim be tied into the media texture set on a parcel?
[13:41]	Jeremy Linden:	/me used to work I.T. helpdesk as an intern in college.
[13:42]	Arawn Spitteler:	I can see how Support Taff will want to leaad you through the steps you think you8're too good for. Do Help Desk Peoplde come in world, at all? It sounds like thy're o prompers, rather than knowledgeable.
[13:42]	Jeremy Linden:	Shared Media has pretty much no ties to parcel media, KristenLee.
[13:42]	Youri Ashton:	i wonder if Dell realises the meaning of their name in Dutch.... im sure they wont be pleased.....
[13:42]	KirstenLee Cinquetti:	shame would have loved to texture project it :)
[13:42]	Dawny Daviau:	LAWL!!
[13:42]	Derek Galaxy:	will there be new script functions to apply and control media on a prim?
[13:42]	Jeremy Linden:	However, I don't know what would happen if the prim texture underneath Shared Media happened to be the parcel media texture. Maybe they'd fight!
[13:42]	Bronson Blackadder:	I sent in a resume to LL to get hired for customer suppirt but I think I need to move to india for that I guess XD
[13:42]	Dawny Daviau:	youri
[13:43]	Youri Ashton:	yes?
[13:43]	Bronson Blackadder:	support even
[13:43]	Bronson Blackadder:	but first I must brush up on typing :/
[13:43]	Maxine Kohime:	hmmmm
[13:43]	Arawn Spitteler:	/me wants to earn American Sign Language, so he can work on phone support, and move o New Delhi
[13:44]	Nathan Adored:	We all speak Typonese. Fluently. :D
[13:44]	Youri Ashton:	whats up dawny?
[13:44]	Sooden Ren:	fet ignored.. just wnated to know next meant for viewer 2, cus my beat view 2 keeps crashing, within 30 sec
[13:44]	Dawny Daviau:	i said lol to your dell remark youri
[13:44]	Sooden Ren:	so i cant test it
[13:44]	Youri Ashton:	lol
[13:44]	Torley Linden:	Derek, there already are -- but what are you specifically trying to do?
[13:44]	Aargle Zymurgy:	I only know 1 hand-sign, but it comes in useful quite often. ;-)
[13:44]	Bronson Blackadder:	Sooden I think every OH deals with viewer 2.0
[13:44]	Nathan Adored:	Speaking of SL2 viwer..... did tey ever fix that major blunder where when you uninstall te viewer, it deletes all the logfiles and settings ands tuff?
[13:45]	Torley Linden:	E.g., http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlSetPrimMediaParams
[13:45]	Youri Ashton:	we all know sign language, although it isnt really flattering....
[13:45]	Kaine Lowenstark:	yes Nathan, the viewer now installs to a different area then 1.23
[13:45]	Sooden Ren:	ty
[13:45]	Kaine Lowenstark:	so you dont lose your 1.23 logs on uninstall
[13:45]	Kaine Lowenstark:	I believe your 2.0 ones are still french toast
[13:45]	Bronson Blackadder:	just wear that Sooden it will list all the OH
[13:45]	Nathan Adored:	grrr
[13:45]	Bronson Blackadder:	well almost all the OH
[13:46]	Maxine Kohime:	did I miss the answer for me? *looks
[13:46]	Youri Ashton:	oh i dont the 2.0 stuff, it doesnt let me on in the first place, so why bother about logs :p
[13:46]	Torley Linden:	I don't know if that was fixed already, Nathan, but I certainly heard complaints about it from others. :(
[13:46]	Derek Galaxy:	oh cool ty Torley that answered my question lol
[13:46]	Derek Galaxy:	the url lol
[13:47]	Laurent Bechir:	it's a bug from the installer, not the viewer, no ?
[13:47]	Tillie Ariantho:	Btw. Torley, you have seen that on startup, all windlight XML files get loaded into the client? With big WL setting packages like yours this loads a LOT into memory.
[13:47]	Dawny Daviau:	/me says Bye Bye !
[13:47]	Torley Linden:	Tillie, you mean it takes a lot of RAM?
[13:47]	Youri Ashton:	it loads about 100 things on startup tillie
[13:47]	Marianne McCann:	Is that new beavrior, Tillie?
[13:47]	Youri Ashton:	and about 1000 in total
[13:48]	Tillie Ariantho:	Not new.
[13:48]	Marianne McCann:	behavior*
[13:48]	Torley Linden:	Derek, cool, be sure to see http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Becky_Pippen/Shared_Media_LSL_Recipes too, Becky comes to our office hours sometimes.
[13:48]	Tillie Ariantho:	I see it in the debug console on startup. loads all WL xmls. And it was about 500 until I cleanup it up.
[13:48]	Marianne McCann:	Wow
[13:48]	Tillie Ariantho:	cleaned it up.
[13:48]	Torley Linden:	How did you "clean it up"?
[13:48]	Youri Ashton:	you can experiment with it tillie, just remove one and see what happens
[13:48]	Tillie Ariantho:	I removed them from the WL folder.
[13:48]	Marianne McCann:	V2 does seem to be taking up a lot more of my CPU, so I was wondering
[13:49]	Tillie Ariantho:	Only have the ones in the WL folder now, that I really use.
[13:49]	Torley Linden:	Do you have any proof to show it actually has a substantial performance hit, Tillie?
[13:49]	Torley Linden:	I've never noticed that before and the XML files themselves are like pretty small text files...
[13:49]	Youri Ashton:	its a obvious cause torley
[13:49]	Torley Linden:	No it isn't, Youri.
[13:49]	Youri Ashton:	Q and Nyx agreed on it as well
[13:49]	Tillie Ariantho:	a) it slows down the startup of the viewer quite a bit if you have the debug console on, and b) it prevents that you can add new WL settings while SL is running.
[13:49]	Torley Linden:	Unless you have specific proof...
[13:49]	Bronson Blackadder:	I guess thats why my video card doesnt get so hot
[13:50]	Bronson Blackadder:	its all on my cpu
[13:50]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[13:50]	Youri Ashton:	well, the viewer on it sown doesnt cause problems
[13:50]	Youri Ashton:	however
[13:50]	Kaine Lowenstark:	Vut that has little to do with when its running, just startup
[13:50]	Torley Linden:	It sounds like there are some misunderstandings here. I wouldn't speculate further unless you have hard evidence.
[13:50]	Kaine Lowenstark:	**But
[13:50]	Youri Ashton:	the XML files are adding to that lag problem
[13:50]	Youri Ashton:	it needs to read them all on startup and keeps reading during playing
[13:50]	Kaine Lowenstark:	AHH Music where X_x
[13:51]	Youri Ashton:	without them you simply wont really have a SL left
[13:51]	Kaine Lowenstark:	Oh the prim XD
[13:51]	Torley Linden:	Youri, don't confuse others, because the many files used to spec the UI are also XML, and there are a lot of them. They're not giant RAM-hogging graphics or videos, so provide proof.
[13:51]	Tillie Ariantho:	I can see the list of WL XMLs scoll up on startup. With 500 it was quite a bit time.
[13:51]	Youri Ashton:	true, didnt say delete all :p
[13:51]	Youri Ashton:	i said expiriment
[13:52]	Youri Ashton:	meaning try out which is what
[13:52]	Torley Linden:	A lot of files doesn't mean things are substantially slower. That's just bad computer science.
[13:52]	Marianne McCann:	Shoot - I gotta run, Fires t'put out! Have fun!
[13:52]	Youri Ashton:	dont need it? then copy it to a save folder untill you need it again
[13:52]	Torley Linden:	Details needed!
[13:52]	Marianne McCann:	Bye Bye!!
[13:52]	Jeremy Linden:	Thanks for coming, Marianne.
[13:52]	Youri Ashton:	do need to restart before it is loaded though
[13:52]	Nathan Adored:	l8r Mari
[13:52]	Youri Ashton:	bye mari :)
[13:52]	Youri Ashton:	see you at michaels!
[13:53]	Jorge Erin:	Jeremy, Torley, We organize every day a talk at Ajuda SL Brasil about new viewer for new and old residents. Would be possible to use islands Viewer2tips for the next talk and to give tp to group there ?
[13:53]	Jorge Erin	has pinged you.
[13:53]	Torley Linden:	Youri, find me the exact quotes from Q and Nyx. I defer to their expertise.
[13:53]	Tillie Ariantho:	Torley: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-16769
[13:53]	Tillie Ariantho:	300 windlight XML files, with debug console open, took 30 seconds to load.
[13:53]	Torley Linden:	Oooh Jorge, so glad you asked! We've considered that possibility -- Kate Linden would know more about that and she should hopefully be back soon.
[13:53]	Youri Ashton:	lol, if i could i most sertainly would torley, but as i was saying earlier, i have problems with SL the whole day :(
[13:54]	Jorge Erin:	ok ty Torley
[13:54]	Torley Linden:	Thanks for finding that, Tillie. I wonder what else is involved, because it's atypical. First time I've heard of that and it doesn't happen for me.
[13:54]	Tillie Ariantho:	I only added 'snowglobe' as client, but I am sure thats no different in client 2.0
[13:55]	Tillie Ariantho:	Torley: you maybe dont start up with debug console open?
[13:55]	Torley Linden:	Actually it could be -- don't edit versions unless you've tested firsthand or know for sure. :)
[13:55]	Youri Ashton:	both Q and Nyx were discussing during Q's OH today how to kill the lag problem, even in slight way
[13:55]	Torley Linden:	I have, Tillie.
[13:55]	Youri Ashton:	the issue Tillie tries to tell is one of the things that came up
[13:55]	Tillie Ariantho:	I made this jira even, but no one has ever looked at it yet. :P
[13:56]	Youri Ashton:	we also discussed about a possible on/off switch for sertain things loaded by SL
[13:56]	Torley Linden:	It certainly makes me concerned if many WindLight presets slow thangs down (which sucks), so I'd like to be better educated on it.
[13:56]	Tillie Ariantho:	Yah, only load the WL files that are needed. ;)
[13:56]	Youri Ashton:	so the user can choose what to load and what not
[13:56]	Youri Ashton:	and for that matter, in what order
[13:56]	Coconut Tropical	Drink: whispers: Mmmmmm Tropical ;D
[13:56]	Youri Ashton:	for example, textures loading pretty slowly and fail sometimes now, agreed?
[13:57]	Torley Linden:	Hm, that's too vague.
[13:57]	Arawn Spitteler:	/me thins: Prioritization should be a no brainer.
[13:57]	Youri Ashton:	the idea that Q had was to give it priority, atleast, when the user wants that
[13:58]	Time Minder:	You have been online for 1 hours.
[13:58]	Torley Linden:	Haha, first-person Tetris!
[13:58]	Youri Ashton:	lets say, loading world on #1, loading textures on #2, loading avitars #3 and so on
[13:58]	Bronson Blackadder:	omg
[13:58]	Jorge Erin:	:)
[13:58]	Jeremy Linden:	I should have locked down the input on that media prim, huh...
[13:58]	Bronson Blackadder:	the sound media volume slider doesnt work
[13:58]	Youri Ashton:	everony can actually, according to Q's idea if im right, set priorities to what ever they want to see first
[13:58]	Jeremy Linden:	Bronson, not for flash, sadly :-/
[13:58]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[13:59]	Derek Galaxy:	i want my inventory to be #2 lol
[13:59]	Derek Galaxy:	it never loads fully
[13:59]	Youri Ashton:	thought it was a great idea actually
[13:59]	Bronson Blackadder:	/me bangs his head to the music
[13:59]	Bronson Blackadder:	or did
[13:59]	Nathan Adored:	INterestingly, one of the third party viewers added a feature where, when you first arrive on a spot,it temporarily drops draw distance down to minimum distance to force allt he foreground objects to load first, then brings the draw distance back up to where you set it to bring it the rest of everything. Clever idea that
[13:59]	Youri Ashton:	true bron
[13:59]	Torley Linden:	Jorge, I'm going to let Kate Linden know what you asked... it sounds like a pretty helpful use of Viewer2Tips. :)
[13:59]	Torley Linden:	Haha Nathan, do you remember which viewer? I used to do that MANUALLY... by instinct...
[13:59]	Jorge Erin:	great thanks Torley
[13:59]	Nathan Adored:	Insolense (sp?) viwer, I believe.
[14:00]	Derek Galaxy:	i think thats what the emerald speed rezzer dose
[14:00]	Tillie Ariantho:	Nathan: good idea. I never understood how stuff can load, that is at the outer rim of my viewrange, and the prim right in front of me does NOT load its textures.
[14:00]	Skills Hak:	i think cool viewer does that too
[14:00]	Youri Ashton:	however, thats when i came in and asking if it was possible (after mojito asked how to solve her problem) to get a "load sim only" or "plot only"
[14:00]	Youri Ashton:	meaning...
[14:00]	Nathan Adored:	Ironically, due to some policy dispute with the TPV police here, they've officially announced they no longer support logging into SL with their viwer
[14:00]	Nathan Adored:	er. policy, not police
[14:00]	Maxine Kohime:	who said so?
[14:00]	Skills Hak:	but it's not necessarily faster, it just looks faster
[14:00]	Youri Ashton:	that peopel using just 1 sim and dont like to load more then that, then they wont have to load that any more
[14:01]	Youri Ashton:	keeping laoding down and thus lag is less
[14:01]	Youri Ashton:	as simple idea of course
[14:01]	Torley Linden:	I'd like to feel more responsive when I hover over a vendor in a store and that texture loads first... sometimes I find the ones to the side of it rez faster.
[14:01]	Nathan Adored:	ywah
[14:01]	Torley Linden:	Some backstory: texture loading is one of those things hard to describe in words and pictures since it's a sequence over time, so a good thing for video...
[14:01]	Maxine Kohime:	Nathan? Which viewer stops SL upport?
[14:01]	Nathan Adored:	I land at a club.... and it always, ALWAYS seems like the dance globe rezzed dead last...
[14:02]	Youri Ashton:	so far of what i understood torley, you could with Q's idea
[14:02]	Skills Hak:	i made 4 gestures on the hotkeys F9 to F12 for setting drawing distance manually
[14:02]	Torley Linden:	Ooh it's the Quick Start Guide Jeremy crafted! Hope you all have seen it. :)
[14:02]	Torley Linden	has pinged you.
[14:02]	Chaley May:	yes if things we use rezz faster we dont care so much of anything else
[14:02]	Tillie Ariantho:	I wonder what is done when you change groups... you can force shapes to load by doing that. Why is no one finding out and use this after a teleport to rezz all shapes?
[14:02]	Jeremy Linden:	/me blushes.
[14:02]	Youri Ashton:	i havnt been in SL for a while now, so sorry, missed it
[14:02]	Torley Linden:	Changing group titles used to fix an unintentional avatar invisibility issue, too.
[14:02]	Nathan Adored:	The makers of Insolense viwer have stated on their mainpage, in a long winded multi-paragraph announcement, that they can't support going to SL anymore, because of someting the comflicts with the GPL license
[14:02]	Tillie Ariantho:	Changing a group should not affect the avatar shapes, but apparently it does some kind of refresh, whyever...
[14:02]	Chaley May:	but i have always hovered my mouse over things to make them rezz faster
[14:03]	Torley Linden:	But it's the end of our office hour chat session! Thanks each & all for being with us and hanging out today!
[14:03]	Derek Galaxy:	sometimes i have to click or focus on a prim for its to load or clea

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