Doc Team/2010-04-21

Transcript

[13:03]	Nathan Adored:	Pity the new consolr room design is probably gonna be REALLY primmy to reproduce here in SL... :D
[13:03]	Dawny Daviau:	hi Jeremy :)
[13:03]	Dawny Daviau	has pinged you.
[13:03]	Torley Linden:	Jeremy Linden in tha hizzouse!
[13:03]	Torley Linden	has pinged you.
[13:03]	Jeremy Linden:	Hi all!
[13:03]	ladygaga Foxdale:	all sl veiwers don't work
[13:04]	Memorial Dae:	Testing synth voice 1 2 3
[13:04]	Second Life:	Entering god mode, level 200
[13:04]	Torley Linden:	ladygaga, are you accessing SL from a different machine right now?
[13:04]	Chaley May:	/me notices a lack of house :)
[13:04]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	Rezzing seems to be having new problems after the server upgrade.
[13:04]	xstorm Radek:	HELLOOOOOOOo KNEES!!!!
[13:04]	Torley Linden:	hahaha Dr. Who theme music that's great
[13:04]	ladygaga Foxdale:	my sl sound is dead
[13:05]	Torley Linden:	ladygaga, i wish i knew more but i'm not on Linux
[13:05]	Nathan Adored:	Nice gettup today, Torley. I like the bag.
[13:05]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	Maybe shouldn't encorage sound files here. They hit all our bandwidth/
[13:05]	Torley Linden:	thanks Nathan, my book?
[13:05]	Bronson Blackadder:	meow
[13:06]	xstorm Radek:	/me snickers
[13:06]	Ante Flan:	'sup?
[13:06]	Torley Linden:	Ante! been a long time!
[13:07]	Dawny Daviau:	Hi Cisop :))
[13:07]	Cisop Sixpence:	Hi
[13:07]	Ante Flan:	Yeah. I'm never on much anymore. :o
[13:07]	Ante Flan:	I saw your tweet and I wasn't doing anything.
[13:07]	xstorm Radek:	nice Treet to day Torley
[13:08]	Torley Linden:	well welcome to our office hours! it's usually more casual than it seems at first glance
[13:08]	Nathan Adored:	Did that put out a transcript of last weeks meeting? COuldn't find it at the usual URL.
[13:08]	Nathan Adored:	*they
[13:08]	Torley Linden:	Nathan, http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Documentation_Office_Hours  ?
[13:09]	Torley Linden:	i see it there
[13:09]	Torley Linden:	my most recent tip for http://secondlife.com/tnt was to try right-clicking on just about everything in Viewer 2
[13:09]	Torley Linden:	there are a lot of handy contextual menu items that are quicker to access than clicking various buttons and what have you not
[13:09]	Daniel Voyager:	HALLO!
[13:09]	Memorial Dae:	Greetings!
[13:10]	Nathan Adored:	ty
[13:10]	xstorm Radek:	the KB or wiki needs better info on the Object Rendering cost in Viewer 2 some thing that not owny shows the cost but a graph that shows older PC's to New PC's and the rendering cost out come in rez time ....
[13:10]	Jeremy Linden:	"They" only caught the last few minutes of last week's office hour, so I couldn't archive it :-/
[13:11]	Torley Linden:	no worries Jeremy i got the bulk of it and put it up
[13:11]	Torley Linden	has pinged you.
[13:11]	Arawn Spitteler:	Does anybody see me as naked?
[13:11]	Torley Linden:	xstorm, yeah, i've heard that asked every now and then -- making more sense of what it makes relative to other things, i forwarded that to Nyx and Seraph Linden for a future FAQ...
[13:11]	Cisop Sixpence:	I don't see anyone naked.... dratts. :(
[13:12]	Torley Linden:	i've been in a couple company meetings recently where we had a naked linden
[13:12]	xstorm Radek:	lol OMG!! i just asked poor Nyx that he will hate me for it soon lol
[13:12]	Nathan Adored:	If *I* showed up naked here, by system glitch, I'd be in deep doodoo.
[13:12]	Torley Linden:	xstorm, haha, well it's a natural curiosity
[13:13]	Jeremy Linden:	I'm sorry, I seem to have missed a question about rendering costs?
[13:13]	xstorm Radek:	I need the rendering data and info to help others that have sims
[13:13]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	I was over at BCI Kuula and they were having dreadfully slow AV rezzing after the server rollout.
[13:13]	Arawn Spitteler:	BCI or NCI?
[13:14]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	Some of it could have been my viewer, but everyone was seeing a slow-down.
[13:14]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	NCI, the well-known typing error.
[13:14]	Nathan Adored:	/me wonders if we're going to be hearing that Who theme snippet looping the whole meeting.
[13:14]	xstorm Radek:	you missing your Rendering KB ? Jeremy ?
[13:14]	xstorm Radek	has pinged you.
[13:15]	Jeremy Linden:	The sort of statistics you're asking for are beyond my understanding of rendering costs right now, sadly.
[13:15]	Jeremy Linden:	However, Nyx did warn me that rendering costs did change slightly with Viewer 2.0
[13:15]	Torley Linden:	HOLY PARTICLES
[13:15]	Nathan Adored:	LOL
[13:16]	Cisop Sixpence:	Its Particle man
[13:16]	Nathan Adored:	TP poofer, I take it?
[13:16]	xstorm Radek:	its ok i have been having problems with tect support too do to i ask thing they have no clue what im asking them at times
[13:16]	Techwolf Lupindo:	For a minute there, I though a Linden was griefting us.
[13:16]	Derek Galaxy:	lol
[13:16]	Derek Galaxy:	yes
[13:16]	Arawn Spitteler:	Tech Support is no match for the departed Mentors, I take it?
[13:16]	Derek Galaxy:	hello all
[13:16]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Poor nametag placemnet.
[13:17]	Jeremy Linden:	Second Life Answers might be a good place to ask, if you're looking for a specific technique, maybe?
[13:17]	xstorm Radek:	if i ask them to find a way to stop mega prims from other people blotting out the mini map they look on the big map and say what mega prim
[13:17]	Jeremy Linden:	http://blogs.secondlife.com/community/answers
[13:17]	Chaley May:	100% alphas use a lot more rendering cost than i imagined and we all use 100% alpha to hide faces we dont need in things like hair :(
[13:18]	Jeremy Linden:	Is someone automatically looping Doctor Who gestures?
[13:18]	xstorm Radek:	sorry Jeremy if it was in the KB or Wiki i not be asking live chat for help
[13:18]	xstorm Radek	has pinged you.
[13:18]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	Delete them
[13:18]	Torley Linden:	*turns on sound beacons*
[13:18]	Memorial Dae:	/me turns on sound bacon
[13:19]	Arawn Spitteler:	/me thinks Bacon sounds good.
[13:19]	Nathan Adored:	Yummmmmmm.... bacon....! :D
[13:19]	Jeremy Linden:	Chaley, that's true. The rendering engine needs to make all kinds of additional calculations on transparent objects.
[13:19]	Torley Linden:	Chaley, really? where are you seeing that? 100% alphas should not be rendered at *all*... that's the whole point
[13:20]	Chaley May:	rezz a prim and make it 100% alpha you will see
[13:20]	Jeremy Linden:	Torley, that's true of alpha masks on avatars, but not necessarily on transparent prims.
[13:20]	Torley Linden:	most intriguing, as Spock would say. last time i really looked at that was ages ago.
[13:20]	Jeremy Linden:	(BigPapi explained this to me once, I'm not doing it justice.)
[13:20]	Arawn Spitteler:	Highlight Transparent should still work
[13:20]	Torley Linden:	yeah it seems like one of those counterintuitive things, Jeremy...
[13:20]	Torley Linden	has pinged you.
[13:21]	Chaley May:	because it seems although we cant see it the face exists and is rendered.. which is why we can see it when we press alt+t
[13:21]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	There's some querying whether Viewer 2 is more prone to the OpenGL alpha-layer overlap problem.
[13:21]	Jeremy Linden:	Well, when you think about it from a computer's perspective, the computer knows the object is there, and it needs to figure out how much of the stuff behind the transparent object it needs to render, which one should be on top, etc.
[13:21]	Torley Linden:	that's not totally accurate, Chaley, because alpha masks are shown in red when Highlight Transparent is on
[13:22]	Jeremy Linden:	These sound like questions for someone like Nyx, to be honest :-P
[13:22]	Chaley May:	avatars have different rules anyway and what a person wears like skin and clothes doesnt contribute to arc anyway
[13:22]	xstorm Radek:	yes Nyx is better at that
[13:23]	Arawn Spitteler:	Doc Lindens would be looking on whether the Nyx Only Known is documented
[13:23]	xstorm Radek:	Daniel your toy making sounds ?
[13:23]	Chaley May:	i think an avaatr with no prims attached is always an ARC of 1
[13:24]	Arawn Spitteler:	Andrew went above one, by wearing a skin
[13:24]	Jeremy Linden:	Chaley, that has changed in Viewer 2.0. A base avatar now has a value of 100.
[13:24]	Chaley May:	ok
[13:24]	Daniel Voyager:	Must be the Screwdriver. :p
[13:24]	xstorm Radek:	sonic
[13:24]	Daniel Voyager:	super sonic lol
[13:24]	Phoebe Silvercloud:	viewer 2 EEP!
[13:25]	Arawn Spitteler:	/me idly envisions a screwdriver for hedgehogs.
[13:25]	Chaley May:	i think i read it somewhere on a wiki
[13:25]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	I know the old ARC system used colour codes as well. I hope you haven't made the mistake the Emerald people made, and left the colour codes unchanged.
[13:25]	Nathan Adored:	/me wonders what a melding of Sonic with The Doctor would be like.
[13:25]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	hello all
[13:25]	Torley Linden:	hi Quarterback, welcome to Doc Team office hours!
[13:25]	Daniel Voyager:	Torley, nice av :)
[13:25]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	thanks torley :)
[13:25]	Arawn Spitteler:	Doctor Who, as a cartoon hedgehog, in his next regen?
[13:26]	Daniel Voyager:	hehe
[13:26]	Torley Linden:	Jeremy and I are here to answer any questions abotu Second Life documentation ye may have :D
[13:26]	Torley Linden	has pinged you.
[13:26]	Chaley May:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Avatar_Rendering_Cost
[13:26]	Torley Linden:	thanks Daniel, this came together so naturally, the umbrella was the finishing touch
[13:26]	Chaley May:	thats what i read
[13:26]	Chaley May:	An avatar with no attachments has a score of 1. You can have the fanciest possible Linden (aka mesh) clothing, hair, and shoes, and still have a score of 1.
[13:26]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	hmmm ok :) oh i've found your tutorials helpful and enjoyable on some parts lol
[13:26]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	on youtube
[13:26]	Daniel Voyager:	A younger cartoon hedgehog for the 12th doctor perhaps. lol
[13:26]	Nathan Adored:	What is the issue with colors and Emerald?
[13:26]	Torley Linden:	why thanks Quarterback! did you originally find them on YouTube or did you find them linked elsewhere?
[13:27]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	Chaley, that's what I recall. You get a lot added with flexiprimes, for instance.
[13:27]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	i was told about them and i was given the link for the youtube vids
[13:27]	xstorm Radek:	hi Mud
[13:27]	xstorm Radek:	go to fly Mud
[13:27]	Torley Linden:	ahh cool Quarterback, i always like to know how people discover 'em
[13:27]	Jeremy Linden:	Chaley, I think that article might be a bit outdated. The base score changed from 1 to 100.
[13:28]	Daniel Voyager:	I'm a alien really. lol
[13:28]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	fair enough buddy
[13:28]	Jeremy Linden:	Admittedly, we're a little behind on updating the whole wiki to Viewer 2.0 :-)
[13:28]	Mudslinger Ning:	oooh a crowd...
[13:28]	Arawn Spitteler:	/me recalls that even a linden may edit a wiki
[13:28]	Chaley May:	it would be good if you updated it but also kept the old version for older clients
[13:28]	xstorm Radek:	mud do a rebake it may help you
[13:28]	Jeremy Linden:	/me edits the wiki.
[13:28]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	i can't get on with viewer 2 :( layout is so alien from what i'm used to lol
[13:28]	Mudslinger Ning:	meh - I'll just flip outfits
[13:28]	Torley Linden:	and yes Chaley we're planning on doing that, until such time in the future that Version 2 is the old one ;)
[13:28]	xstorm Radek:	ok :-)
[13:29]	Merlin Aftermath:	/me undoes changes to wiki.
[13:29]	Torley Linden:	Quarterback, allow yourself some time to get used to it... just like you got used to SL in the first place... can't rush that... =)
[13:29]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	What Emerald did, when they revamped their ARC system to reflect texture sizes, was to keep the same numeric boundaries for the green/amber/red, and nearly weverything came through as red.
[13:29]	xstorm Radek:	if you need any more help Mud please let me know
[13:29]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	yer true matey
[13:29]	Nathan Adored:	But they fixed that later?
[13:31]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	Nathan, it looks like they just stopped colour-coding the ARC number.
[13:31]	xstorm Radek:	Yes Daniel its your sonic screw driver
[13:31]	xstorm Radek:	it has UUID of sound files in its script
[13:32]	Chaley May:	i think i just heard the chuckle brothers
[13:32]	Nathan Adored:	so, detach the sonic screwdriver?
[13:32]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	torley im just trying to work out what your av is meant to be lol
[13:32]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	apart from greeny :)
[13:32]	xstorm Radek:	a bit funny if you ask me
[13:32]	Cisop Sixpence:	/me likes the color green.
[13:32]	Torley Linden:	i hail from another dominion
[13:32]	Jeremy Linden:	Torley appears to be a Colorful Old One
[13:33]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	so whats the topic of debate guys
[13:33]	Jeremy Linden:	(See: H.P. Lovecraft, but colorful)
[13:33]	Nathan Adored:	heh
[13:33]	Merlin Aftermath:	The Watermelon Patch From Beyond.
[13:33]	Torley Linden:	the very sight of me shall drive you insane
[13:33]	Torley Linden:	haha Merlin
[13:33]	xstorm Radek:	Torley is a old Linden God with a island i love to drop in to from time to time go see it to day
[13:33]	Jeremy Linden:	Quarterback, we like to discuss anything regarding Second Life documentation (online help, the wiki, etc)
[13:34]	xstorm Radek:	lol
[13:34]	Nathan Adored:	I've got a clthulhu tiny av in my inventory, cutest thing you ever see. Ironic, considering how "cute" and "Cthulhu" don't even remotely intersect usualy. :D
[13:34]	xstorm Radek:	Daniel im going to poke you in a bit lol
[13:34]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	fair enough jer
[13:34]	Jeremy Linden:	Is there a tiny steamship to ram him with?
[13:34]	Daniel Voyager:	lol
[13:35]	Torley Linden:	Nathan, it sounds like a portmanteau... Cute-hulhu?
[13:35]	Jeremy Linden:	Hah.
[13:35]	Nathan Adored:	And I just realised it was Jeremy Linden's bag thingy I was looking at earlier, not Torley's book. heh.
[13:35]	Nathan Adored	has pinged you.
[13:35]	Jeremy Linden:	Aha! Well, thanks.
[13:36]	Arawn Spitteler:	/me wonders if it's possible to relocate to New York or Massachusetts: Is customer service looking for people of intelligence?
[13:37]	Derek Galaxy:	people without viewer 2.0 can stil see alpha masks and tatoo layes things correctly right?
[13:37]	Jeremy Linden:	Correct, Derek.
[13:38]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	/me is inclined to cynicism about the term "customer service".
[13:38]	Nathan Adored:	It was a freebee I got at Hobo Island.
[13:38]	Derek Galaxy:	good, just making shure
[13:38]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	hello laurent
[13:38]	Laurent Bechir:	hello
[13:38]	Arawn Spitteler:	me raises his eybrow at the cynicism: Is Wolf unfamiliar with How To Serve Man?
[13:39]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	Nom nom nom
[13:39]	KirstenLee Cinquetti:	Did notice one way to get a little more zip out of viewer 2.0 if you have nvidia, in the nvidia control panel disable the threading feature.
[13:39]	Mudslinger Ning:	with a side order of fries
[13:39]	Jeremy Linden:	Oh, interesting tip, KristenLee.
[13:39]	KirstenLee Cinquetti:	or create a special profile for secondlife with nvidia threading off
[13:39]	Torley Linden:	i haven't tried that KirstenLee, how did you discover that?
[13:40]	Chaley May:	/me looks for the control panel
[13:40]	KirstenLee Cinquetti:	was running the other day with it off and on
[13:40]	KirstenLee Cinquetti:	with it on frame rate seemed locked
[13:40]	KirstenLee Cinquetti:	with it off i gained a huge boost
[13:41]	Nathan Adored:	neat stick figure av, Laurent.
[13:41]	Torley Linden:	i'm going to see if that makes a difference for me later
[13:41]	Mudslinger Ning:	hmm - I got have such control panel - serves me right for running linux I guess - I'm assuming you're talking about a windows configuration?
[13:41]	Laurent Bechir:	:)
[13:41]	Derek Galaxy:	i have another cureious question, i was trying on a tux and pants yesterday and i noticed the icon looked like a skin insted of shirt pants icon, and when i tried to wear more than one it replaces the other, it would wera them noth in viewer 1, how were these made or why they wont work the same in 2.0?
[13:41]	Mudslinger Ning:	*not have the control panel - *CENSORED* keyboard
[13:41]	KirstenLee Cinquetti:	linux is unaffected
[13:41]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	is the media browser any better in viewer 2? the one in emerald isn't that good for me lol
[13:42]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	i have to paste any links into main broswer
[13:42]	Mudslinger Ning:	I prefer my main browser anyway - has all my usual script-blocking tools and stuff
[13:43]	Torley Linden:	Quarterback, the Viewer's built-in web browser?
[13:43]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	ah yer good point mud
[13:43]	Nathan Adored:	Yeah, I routinely set my viwer(s) to send web URLs to an external browser, too.
[13:43]	Arawn Spitteler:	/me wonders that Firefox became a crippling resource hog, recently.
[13:43]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	yes torley like the one that come sup when u click on a link in chat
[13:43]	Jeremy Linden:	Derek, I'm not familiar with that particular issue... There are some types of inventory (outfits, alpha masks, tattoo layers) that won't necessarily work correctly in pre-Viewer 2 viewers, though.
[13:43]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	i usually copy that link onto main browser and read it off second life
[13:43]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	away from second life*
[13:44]	Torley Linden:	Quarterback, yes... in fact, in Viewer 2, you can right-click an URL in NEARBY CHAT history and select whether you want to open it in the internal or external browser.
[13:44]	Torley Linden:	you can also right-click and copy the URL
[13:44]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	My hardware may e too old for there to be a threading option.
[13:44]	Derek Galaxy:	i'll give you a copy of the outfit jeremey and you can investigate later...
[13:44]	Derek Galaxy:	its an odd issue
[13:44]	Torley Linden:	those of you in Viewer 2 can try: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Blog_FAQ
[13:44]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	hmmm slowly starting to warm to the idea of trying out viewer 2 again lol
[13:45]	Torley Linden:	SLurls behave similarly, e.g., http://slurl.com/secondlife/Beaumont/25/165/34
[13:45]	Arawn Spitteler:	/me finds the still crappy view better in Snowglobe
[13:45]	Memorial Dae:	O.o
[13:45]	Techwolf Lupindo:	/me notices KirstenLee. "I'me happy to say I managed to get Kirsten 2.0 svn source built and running on my Linux system."
[13:46]	Torley Linden:	try right-clicking just about everywhere in Viewer 2, as i wrote on http://secondlife.com/tnt there are tons of shortcuts not obvious at first glance
[13:46]	Cisop Sixpence:	Sounds like an easter egg hunt. :)
[13:46]	KirstenLee Cinquetti:	did an uptodate linux binary today
[13:46]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	cool i'll take alook at that torley
[13:47]	Torley Linden:	Cisop, the good thing is in most cases, what you'll see makes sense, e.g., right-click on the navigation bar and you'll see the options relate to it. hence why it's a context menu. :)
[13:47]	Torley Linden:	re: what i said earlier about NEARBY CHAT, that applies both if you open a NEARBY CHAT window (by clicking the ^ button on the right of the char bar) and on the floating overlay... either way works
[13:48]	xstorm Radek:	Torley what about better defined info for older users such as some sort of power tools in viewer 2 and the better info on Develop and Advanced debug ????
[13:48]	Cisop Sixpence:	However, right clicking on the dots in the mini-map doesn't let me bring up that dots profile like it did in 1.23. Hopeing soon it will.
[13:48]	Torley Linden:	that'll come out in time, xstorm. it's a lesser priority because Advanced isn't officially supported. but i sure do like a lot of the tricks inside.
[13:48]	Torley Linden:	yup Cisop, either you or someone else mentioned that last time...
[13:49]	Cisop Sixpence:	I think it was me. :)
[13:49]	Arawn Spitteler:	Advanced Menu is not supported?
[13:49]	Mudslinger Ning:	so the advanced menu is really just handy hidden fluff then?
[13:49]	Torley Linden:	not fluff, Mudslinger. but handy and hidden are true.
[13:49]	xstorm Radek:	But Torley is not second life still for the older users or are the older users getting ignored ?
[13:50]	Derek Galaxy:	/me has the advanced and develop menus up :P
[13:50]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	So why did the Stop Animation thing get moved into the Advanced menu?
[13:50]	Torley Linden:	xstorm, you ask that in a needlessly loaded way. :) explain how "older users" relates to "Advanced menu"?
[13:50]	Arawn Spitteler:	/me figures Tech Support is only for the new users, so only new users are hired
[13:50]	KirstenLee Cinquetti:	how many older users know what texture atlas or triangle strip rendering does ^^
[13:51]	Jeremy Linden:	Viewer 2.0 was specifically designed to help new Residents, but we haven't forgotten older Residents along the way. There's some pretty cool stuff coming that we can't really talk about yet :-)
[13:51]	Chaley May:	is there anyone here who doesnt have the advanced menu turned on?
[13:51]	Cisop Sixpence:	/me looks forward to cool stuff.
[13:51]	Nathan Adored:	/me always has Advenaced menu turned on, but he's using Emerald and the like
[13:52]	Chaley May:	i always activate it too
[13:52]	Derek Galaxy:	/me cant wait to see whats next
[13:52]	xstorm Radek:	ok thats not to hard lets look at many of the things like stop animation and Debug commands that can better help a older user fine tune there system
[13:52]	Dawny Daviau:	/me has it up but never uses it :P
[13:52]	Cisop Sixpence:	/me has her Advanced menu active as well.
[13:52]	Mudslinger Ning:	*switches advanced menu off* .... yes! .... *switches advanced menu back on*
[13:52]	Dawny Daviau:	✯✯ HA-HA! ✯✯
[13:52]	Torley Linden:	xstorm, but it can help relatively newer users who started on Viewer 2. the point is: Second Life can be overwhelming when you get started, so most people have no immediate interest in it.
[13:52]	xstorm Radek:	and so many other things we older users use is not left in Advanced
[13:52]	Torley Linden:	HOWEVER, as time passes... then yes, Advanced and other under-the-hood tweaks become more relevant.
[13:53]	Arawn Spitteler:	/me can't use <ctrl><alt><shft>t without Advanced active.
[13:53]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	The first time I used Viewer 2, and stood up from a chair, and the sit animation wouldn't stop. Couldn't find Stop Animation.
[13:53]	Torley Linden:	most of the stuff in Advanced relies on direct inworld experience. e.g., you won't need it unless you know what it's for.
[13:53]	Zen Stormcrow:	i think that for new users Stop Animation is very important
[13:53]	Arawn Spitteler:	Stop Animation never worked, anyways
[13:53]	xstorm Radek:	ok then will second life make a 64 bit viewer for older power users ?
[13:53]	Jeremy Linden:	I suppose we should be careful to point out that when we says the Advanced menu is "not supported", what we mean is that it's "use at your own risk". If you do something crazy, Support might have a very hard time figuring out what happened.
[13:53]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	and i need all the help i can get with viewer 2 haha
[13:53]	Torley Linden:	some of the older animation bugs that needed that workaround were fixed -- i know there are some out there.
[13:54]	Cisop Sixpence:	Stop Animation works for me... too bad it is now in the Advanced menu.
[13:54]	Daniel Voyager:	Theres been alot of votes on the viewer 2 poll http://blogs.secondlife.com/poll.jspa?poll=1018 - 1,489 votes O.o
[13:54]	Bronson Blackadder:	ok how about stop all animations? why is that in advanced?
[13:54]	Torley Linden:	it's like, really, if the system was fully automated, you wouldn't have to manually rebake textures either.
[13:54]	Mudslinger Ning:	surely the "stop animating my ass" option could be placed in the help menu - I've seen so many newbies come out of a dance club and have trouble trying to stop their avvie from continuous seizures?
[13:54]	Torley Linden:	so some of the things in Advanced are there because underlying bugs haven't been fixed.
[13:54]	Laurent Bechir:	Anyone having problems with postcards ? It's been several days that I can't send anyone without an error message
[13:54]	Quarterback Orcenhall:	im sure i'll get used to it, i've heard it runs better than emerald anyhow
[13:54]	xstorm Radek:	it just seems Viewer 2 has been dumb down so much its no longer the tool for older users
[13:55]	Torley Linden:	Muslinger, or, better UIs for dance balls. some will stop animating you when you leave a club or otherwise get out of range.
[13:55]	Nathan Adored:	Woah! "I don't like it. (87%)"
[13:55]	Torley Linden:	OMG Laurent, i hate this bug: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-5387
[13:55]	Chaley May:	3% love it lol
[13:55]	Torley Linden:	i'm waiting for a status update on who can actually work on it
[13:56]	Daniel Voyager:	looks like its been expired for the viewer 2 poll now
[13:56]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	I think we've got a problem with communication that dates back to when Windows was just a Bill Gates wet dream. How do you split up the menu system in a way which makes sense?
[13:56]	Torley Linden:	one thing to remember with polls is early reactions may be *very* different from ones later on...
[13:56]	Mudslinger Ning:	true - but not all creators are gonna design that and some will no doubt not bother upgrading their danceballs unless they break
[13:56]	Torley Linden:	anyone familiar with the Nintendo Wii? the very name of it got a brutal thrashing in polls. but look how it went on to sell successfully and most people aren't bothered by the name now.
[13:56]	Chaley May:	there are things that i do love about viewer 2 and almost none should be exclusive to viewer 2.. i guess when they get ported to the old viewer viewer 2 will be even less popular
[13:56]	Bronson Blackadder:	improved polls come with improvements
[13:56]	Torley Linden:	so the temporal factor is an important one...
[13:56]	xstorm Radek:	Torley a Custom UI menu and a 64 bit viewer for older users may help in a lot of ways
[13:57]	Bronson Blackadder:	but Im just a static cat
[13:57]	Torley Linden:	i do prefer workarounds to exist when there isn't a more seamless or elegant solution, it's true. and like previously, there are sure to be other features that get graduated out of Advanced.
[13:58]	WolfBaginski Bearsfoot:	My idea of an elegant solution is to get a bigger hammer.
[13:58]	Mudslinger Ning:	or at least a "beginner" and a "advanced" mode for the viewer - so newbies can get a simple interface - and oldies and the tech savvy can easily adjust their settings after an install to have all the groovy tools
[13:58]	Torley Linden:	Mudslinger, on that note, that's where there parallel development track for third-party viewers comes in...
[13:58]	Bronson Blackadder:	that will be viewer 3.0
[13:58]	xstorm Radek:	Torley when im working with a problem sim to find out whats giving a sim problems i have to use many of them tools
[13:59]	Bronson Blackadder:	but TPV are not supported
[13:59]	Memorial Dae:	Oh must run, thank you for a most informative group.

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