Doc Team/2010-08-04

TESTING DON'T TOUCH THIS - Spanicky doldrums

Transcript

[13:01]	Franziska Bosatsu:	where i am now
[13:01]	Franziska Bosatsu:	hum
[13:02]	Nathan Adored:	Well, I got here, and FPS was excellent. Went afk for a bit, came back... and FPS was 8 or 10.
[13:02]	Jeremy Linden:	More avatars will do that :-)
[13:02]	Jeremy Linden:	I also find that if my camera is looking South my framerate drops.
[13:02]	Jonit Ivory:	Aargle and I share the same hairdresser it seems, we are high ARC
[13:02]	Nathan Adored:	lowered my draw distance, but that didn't seem to help
[13:02]	Jeremy Linden:	(From here)
[13:03]	Nathan Adored:	/me raises his draw distance back up to max
[13:03]	Jonit Ivory:	bloo kitteh!
[13:03]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hi Jonit :-)
[13:03]	Bronson Blackadder:	holy cow
[13:03]	Jonit Ivory:	hey Morgaine :)
[13:03]	Bronson Blackadder:	this must be on HTTP too
[13:03]	Franziska Bosatsu:	Jeremy is it open here for all?
[13:03]	Franziska Bosatsu	has pinged you.
[13:03]	Bronson Blackadder:	almost everything rezzed in a asnap
[13:04]	Franziska Bosatsu:	or did i desturb
[13:04]	Bronson Blackadder:	snap
[13:04]	Phoenixa Sol:	hiya Qie
[13:04]	Franziska Bosatsu:	hum
[13:04]	Aargle Zymurgy:	/me wakes back up
[13:04]	Nathan Adored:	Who was it that said sacred cows make the best hamburger? Seems to me it was that guy at Mad Magazine. ã‹¡
[13:04]	Aargle Zymurgy:	hey Jeremy!
[13:04]	Aargle Zymurgy	has pinged you.
[13:04]	Jeremy Linden:	Yes it is! This is the weekly Documentation Team office hour. Everyone is free to come and chat, preferably about online help :-)
[13:04]	Franziska Bosatsu:	otay
[13:04]	Morgaine Dinova:	It's not HTTP here, but yes, it all rezzed instantly.
[13:04]	Franziska Bosatsu:	thx
[13:04]	Qie Niangao:	hi folks. :)
[13:04]	Aargle Zymurgy:	yeah... sometimes we talk about that. :-)
[13:05]	Jeremy Linden:	Good to see so many new faces this week... did we get some new advertising? :-)
[13:05]	Olive Dorben:	lol
[13:05]	Franziska Bosatsu:	i am flying the way
[13:05]	Morgaine Dinova:	Jeremy: we heard you were giving out cake
[13:05]	Morgaine Dinova	has pinged you.
[13:05]	Franziska Bosatsu:	hihihi
[13:05]	Franziska Bosatsu:	i was looking for CG
[13:05]	Qie Niangao:	interesting survey about help sources currently.
[13:05]	Franziska Bosatsu:	he has a train
[13:05]	Nathan Adored:	or someone has an agenda to bring up. :D
[13:05]	Phoenixa Sol:	/me points a t Aargle
[13:05]	Jeremy Linden:	I'm sorry Morgaine, but I think the cake was a lie. I'll see what I can do about Jello, though.
[13:05]	Aargle Zymurgy:	CG? he doesn't have meetings
[13:05]	Cummere Mayo:	naw, we just told a few people if they dint com we would um... make them use 2.1!
[13:05]	Franziska Bosatsu:	jupp but i was there
[13:05]	Nathan Adored:	LOL
[13:05]	Franziska Bosatsu:	playing with his train
[13:06]	Franziska Bosatsu:	:(
[13:06]	Franziska Bosatsu:	now he is gone
[13:06]	Morgaine Dinova:	CG turns up at Merov's meetings sometimes
[13:06]	Aargle Zymurgy:	or Nyx's
[13:06]	Franziska Bosatsu:	i like his lightning things
[13:06]	Franziska Bosatsu:	pictures
[13:06]	Jeremy Linden:	Ah, yes! We sent out a survey today requesting everyone's feedback on three of our online help sources. I hope lots of you got a chance to fill it out!
[13:06]	Aargle Zymurgy:	he's normally got good things to contribute to meetings. I miss his regular ones
[13:06]	Jonit Ivory:	Morgaine, you are so going to get hugged and petted to death if you stay on that sofa
[13:06]	Aargle Zymurgy:	/me grumbles about Ontyne all of a sudden
[13:07]	Morgaine Dinova:	Jeremy: that's OK. I have no spoon either.
[13:07]	Morgaine Dinova	has pinged you.
[13:07]	Cummere Mayo:	i did. not sure yould like my answers
[13:07]	Ashiri Sands:	Morgaine may make people want to turn Tiny
[13:07]	Nathan Adored:	THere IS no spoon! :D
[13:07]	Franziska Bosatsu:	mm i like to elp in help island
[13:07]	Morgaine Dinova:	/me chuckles
[13:07]	Franziska Bosatsu:	i allways do
[13:07]	Jeremy Linden:	Any answer is a good answer, Cummere. If it turns out people don't like the wiki or the forums, it means we'll need to find a better way.
[13:08]	Franziska Bosatsu:	but today i got the wrong viewer from a firend
[13:08]	Franziska Bosatsu:	grrrrrr
[13:08]	Franziska Bosatsu:	very slow
[13:08]	Nathan Adored:	well, it'll be along time before we have direct-neural-link info-dumps. :D
[13:08]	Cummere Mayo:	well i putbasically that they were too complicated and too outdated in many cases but i did say you guys had improved it some
[13:08]	Jonit Ivory:	di what?
[13:08]	Jeremy Linden:	/me doesn't want to know what kind of info-dumps griefers would attempt with direct neural links.
[13:08]	Bronson Blackadder:	my only bitch I have with the wiki is when I try to find something I get a deluge of OH transcripts as teh first 500 hits
[13:09]	Franziska Bosatsu:	must change my viewer its to slow and i dont see all
[13:09]	Franziska Bosatsu:	brb
[13:09]	Nathan Adored:	I tihnk they said they were working on a way to exclude the the OH minutes from the wiki seraches
[13:09]	Cummere Mayo:	yeah i think better searching and search indexing would do wonders
[13:09]	Jeremy Linden:	Noted, Bronson. I'm actually looking into possible ways to filters office hour transcripts from the search results. We might need to create a new category for them or something.
[13:10]	Bronson Blackadder:	a new catagrory would be great
[13:10]	Jonit Ivory:	most people search in All
[13:10]	Olive Dorben:	yes
[13:10]	Bronson Blackadder:	other then this the wiki works fine
[13:10]	Jonit Ivory:	so they should not show up by deafult
[13:10]	Jonit Ivory:	All is a tricky category
[13:10]	Jonit Ivory:	as it's default selected
[13:10]	Franziska Bosatsu:	mm
[13:10]	Ashiri Sands:	using "-office" in the search helps somewhat
[13:10]	Franziska Bosatsu:	better
[13:11]	Jeremy Linden:	Indeed, Jonit. We do have control over the Google Search Appliance that handles Google searches on the wiki, though. We might be able to tweak it to play nicer with office hour results.
[13:11]	Qie Niangao:	my main gripe with the survey was that it made a big deal of talking about SLA, *not* General Discussion... when in fact there are all the other forums, too, including content creation like Scripting, where a lot of help gets dispensed.
[13:11]	Jonit Ivory:	drop relevance
[13:11]	Jonit Ivory:	maybe
[13:11]	Phoenixa Sol:	/me wishes there was an inworld notification for when your support ticket is answered as she bites her nails about her entire video vendor disappearing from the private island one day early and knows at one point her ticket was ignored for a year. She tries not to panick and settles on the sofa shifting her windows between the ticket and her SL viewer.
[13:12]	Jonit Ivory:	my biggest bugbear with SLA is the inane questions that are asked, and then get turned into discussions
[13:12]	Cummere Mayo:	two biggest things i would like to see: better relevancing, and more work keeping things updated. for example, wiki sends you to live chat for a lot of things live chat refuses to do anything for now
[13:13]	Jeremy Linden:	Interesting observation, Qie. I haven't been very involved in the Linden side of the forums much, myself, but I got the impression that we want to showcase Second Life Answers. It's interesting to hear that the other categories are just as useful.
[13:13]	Qie Niangao:	well, useful for different people, probably
[13:13]	Cummere Mayo:	more usueful really. sla seems to be a waste unless you want social gossip or drama
[13:14]	Jeremy Linden:	Before I was a Linden, I got the most use out of the old Scripting forums ;-)
[13:14]	Jonit Ivory:	Commere, yes
[13:14]	Morgaine Dinova:	Yep, the old forums rocked.
[13:14]	Jonit Ivory:	SLA seems to be a vehicle for postcount junkies
[13:14]	Qie Niangao:	yeah... unfortunately, the switch to Jive has not been kind to the old content forums regulars.
[13:14]	Jonit Ivory:	who are unaware that SLA is not there for that
[13:15]	Cummere Mayo:	im not dissing sla jeremy its jsut its really not the help center it was expected to be
[13:15]	Cummere Mayo	has pinged you.
[13:16]	Jonit Ivory:	I second that
[13:16]	Jeremy Linden:	As for keeping content up to date, we do the best we can... And we definitely appreciate it when helpful Residents make updates to wiki articles when they find inaccuracies. Right now, the team is back down to me and Jon, so we're happy to get as much help as we can :-)
[13:16]	Jonit Ivory:	example question, umm" My BF dumped me what do I do?"
[13:16]	Jonit Ivory:	in SLA
[13:16]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[13:16]	Jonit Ivory:	that starts a discussion
[13:16]	Kylie Hunniton:	`*·. ✿ Giggles ✿ .·*`
[13:16]	Jonit Ivory:	and before you know it
[13:16]	Olive Dorben:	lol
[13:16]	Franziska Bosatsu:	ihihi
[13:16]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[13:16]	Jonit Ivory:	it's unuseful
[13:16]	Qie Niangao:	Jonit: just tell 'em to clear cache and relog. :p
[13:16]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol
[13:17]	Nathan Adored:	ã‹¡
[13:17]	Jonit Ivory:	I do not care!
[13:17]	Jonit Ivory:	I never reply
[13:17]	Jeremy Linden:	Heh! Does Jive not have a way to "thumbs-down" such a question as irrelevant?
[13:17]	Jonit Ivory:	now that's an idea
[13:17]	Bronson Blackadder:	Im so going to do that next time I hear a dumb quetion
[13:17]	Franziska Bosatsu:	LOL !!! :D
[13:17]	Bronson Blackadder:	clear cacjhe relog
[13:17]	Nathan Adored:	good point! (giggles)
[13:17]	Franziska Bosatsu:	*clicks off
[13:17]	Morgaine Dinova:	Since there's a lull, could I ask whether the Doc team is involved with internal technical documentation at all? My interest is specifically in design documentation.
[13:17]	Bronson Blackadder:	lauging so hard now
[13:17]	Jonit Ivory:	example 2? as I am thinking of them.. "I am a man, I log in as a woman, that ok?"
[13:17]	Bronson Blackadder:	cant type
[13:17]	Jonit Ivory:	now sure if you asked if it would cause more lag
[13:17]	Jonit Ivory:	whispers: that's valid!
[13:18]	Jonit Ivory:	that's valid
[13:18]	Nathan Adored:	I know a few ppl who are one gender and sign on as the other.
[13:18]	Franziska Bosatsu:	i am a alien and loged in as human hehehe
[13:18]	Nathan Adored:	I'm not one of them, mind....
[13:18]	Jonit Ivory:	these are just examples
[13:18]	Jonit Ivory:	Of course
[13:18]	Jeremy Linden:	Morgaine, my particular team doesn't play a big part in design documentation, but we are "allied" with Rand, who handles some of the internal docs. I'm not sure even he does design docs, though :-)
[13:18]	Morgaine Dinova:	Aha, thanks Jeremy
[13:18]	Morgaine Dinova	has pinged you.
[13:18]	Jeremy Linden:	And, when I get the opportunity, I try to push Doc Team as a user advocate in any design sessions we get invited to.
[13:19]	Jonit Ivory:	No Torley! I will get onto SLA this minute and whine!
[13:19]	Cummere Mayo:	my favorite was "I dumped my girlfriend for my wife, but now i miss my girlffriend, waht do i do?"
[13:19]	Jonit Ivory:	ha ha ha
[13:19]	Jonit Ivory:	I am notecarding that one
[13:19]	Jeremy Linden:	Haha! Torley will still be here some weeks, but he's officially on a different team, now.
[13:19]	Morgaine Dinova:	Jeremy: have the team reorgs more or less settled down now?
[13:19]	Morgaine Dinova	has pinged you.
[13:19]	Laurent Bechir:	watermelon team ?
[13:19]	Bronson Blackadder:	clear cache relog
[13:20]	Jonit Ivory:	well as the average male, I will whinge about Kate not being here, and join some fangroup then
[13:20]	Cummere Mayo:	is sad to say she actually read through the one she just mentioned. it was quite.... intresting...
[13:20]	Jonit Ivory:	you did?
[13:20]	Jonit Ivory:	I now need to
[13:20]	Jonit Ivory:	if only as an insomnia cure
[13:20]	Bronson Blackadder:	send me the link
[13:21]	Ashiri Sands:	One thing I'd æ„› to know... System requirements are spellled out... so why are people still asking about what hardware to use
[13:21]	Jeremy Linden:	@Morgaine, I hope so! Doc Team hasn't changed much, but the Lab as a whole is beginning to focus on new strategies. One of those is the idea of a clean, usable, "self-help" system, which Doc Team will help to select or build.
[13:21]	Jonit Ivory:	because they want to make themselves heard
[13:21]	Bronson Blackadder:	because they dont bother looking
[13:22]	Jonit Ivory:	it's simple, I can be heard here, even though my question is pointless, I am "involved"
[13:22]	Olive Dorben:	Jeremy
[13:22]	Olive Dorben	has pinged you.
[13:22]	Olive Dorben:	I have a suggestion
[13:22]	Cummere Mayo:	who all wanted the link?
[13:22]	Slave Paper	Holder Give Away: Hello, Avatar!
[13:23]	Olive Dorben:	I don't know if it fits here
[13:23]	Olive Dorben:	um
[13:23]	Bronson Blackadder:	link please
[13:23]	Franziska Bosatsu:	..
[13:23]	Jeremy Linden:	Go ahead, Olive.
[13:23]	Olive Dorben:	I wanted to suggest having another layer over the face so that people can make makeup for the face instead of buying a whole new skin
[13:23]	Jonit Ivory:	multiwearables?
[13:23]	Qie Niangao:	Olive, the tattoo layer does that! it's very cool
[13:23]	Morgaine Dinova:	I guess "self-help" just means online, these day.
[13:23]	Jonit Ivory:	we have it?
[13:23]	Cummere Mayo:	http://blogs.secondlife.com/message/329410 # (for those that wanted the link)
[13:23]	Bronson Blackadder:	sounds liek a possibility for the tattoo layer
[13:24]	Jonit Ivory:	ah no, I mean we have more layers now
[13:24]	Nathan Adored:	would also be useful for things like, making your av blush beet red
[13:24]	Olive Dorben:	hmm I didn't know I haven't checked the tattoo layer does that
[13:24]	Jeremy Linden:	I believe the tattoo layer in Viewer 2.0+ can be used for things like makeup, yes.
[13:24]	Cummere Mayo:	theres not a face tattoo layer
[13:24]	Olive Dorben:	ok
[13:24]	Olive Dorben:	I don't use 2.0
[13:24]	Jonit Ivory:	sadly
[13:24]	Olive Dorben:	:)
[13:24]	Cummere Mayo:	its torso and legs
[13:24]	Jonit Ivory:	I smell a JIRA coming
[13:24]	Qie Niangao:	I made my own "eye anti-make-up" and am wearing it now. on tattoo layer.
[13:24]	Cummere Mayo:	olive that is a good suggestion though...
[13:25]	Ashiri Sands:	lol Qie
[13:25]	Franziska Bosatsu:	needs to go
[13:25]	Franziska Bosatsu:	sorry
[13:25]	Franziska Bosatsu:	be back later
[13:25]	Franziska Bosatsu:	bye
[13:25]	Jonit Ivory:	whispers: ciao!
[13:25]	Jeremy Linden:	Yeah... Nyx would be able to give your more detailed information about tattoos and multiwearables at his office hour. He holds those right before this office hour, actually :-)
[13:25]	Aargle Zymurgy:	just was there before.
[13:26]	Olive Dorben:	ok
[13:26]	Nathan Adored:	On one of the other grids, someone came up with mud "clothes" at the underwear layer and as socks and undershirt and stuff.... so you could be covered head to toe in a mudbath rhingy, plus mud-covered pants and jacket-layer shirt. But there was no way to make the face mud-covered
[13:26]	Morgaine Dinova:	Are you sure there's no tatoo face layer now? I thought Nyx had provided that missing layer in V2. He was certainly aware of the lack, we discussed it in his OH.
[13:26]	Aargle Zymurgy:	much nicer meeting than the previous 2, fortunately
[13:26]	Olive Dorben:	I have mud clothes
[13:26]	Jonit Ivory:	that's nice
[13:26]	Nathan Adored:	actualkly, yuou were only mud-covbered from NECK to toes
[13:26]	Bronson Blackadder:	as far as I know tehre is a face tattoo layer
[13:27]	Ashiri Sands:	Pretty sure tattoo layer covers everywhere
[13:27]	Morgaine Dinova:	There certainly wasn't before. But I thought that was fixed in recent times.
[13:27]	Jeremy Linden:	Actually, I wonder if I included that in Viewer Help...
[13:27]	Nathan Adored:	and, sorry I can't type perfect when doing it fast. heh
[13:27]	Qie Niangao:	there definitely is a face part of the tattoo layer, on 2.x anyway
[13:27]	Jonit Ivory:	Where is Torley now, after leaving Doc?
[13:27]	Aargle Zymurgy:	he shows up sometimes here. he was here last week.
[13:27]	Jeremy Linden:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Viewerhelp:Appearance_Editor_-_Tattoo
[13:28]	Olive Dorben:	Thanks Jeremy
[13:28]	Olive Dorben	has pinged you.
[13:28]	Morgaine Dinova:	I have aliens with a human face, was quite disappointed that there was no face layer above skin, which is why I raised it with Nyx some time back.
[13:28]	Jeremy Linden:	I'm not sure what the new name of his team is, but Torley initially moved to a team called "Partnerships".
[13:28]	Jonit Ivory:	Ahhh
[13:28]	Nathan Adored:	It WOULD be nice if there was a "mask" layer for the head, tho. That way, someone could put in a mask (instead of making it a prim), wear a hockeymaskk or a Lone Ranger mask, or.... well.... mud on te face.... without resorting to prims
[13:29]	Jonit Ivory:	There is
[13:29]	Morgaine Dinova:	/me scratches head at teams names
[13:29]	Jonit Ivory:	you can use the alpha layer to make yourself headless
[13:29]	Nathan Adored:	the "mask" layer, is it something added with 2.0 or 2.1?
[13:29]	Jonit Ivory:	(Morgaine, yes that was amusing)
[13:29]	Jonit Ivory:	2.0
[13:29]	Nathan Adored:	ah
[13:29]	Jeremy Linden:	I have accidentally made myself headless several times. I think it might become the new box-on-head newbie mistake :-/
[13:29]	Morgaine Dinova:	Jonit: like Q's "Sustaining" team
[13:30]	Jonit Ivory:	Exactly
[13:30]	Jonit Ivory:	corporate America
[13:30]	Aargle Zymurgy:	I gotta split early, but thanks for spending time with us, Jeremy
[13:30]	Aargle Zymurgy	has pinged you.
[13:30]	Bronson Blackadder:	alpha mask is 2.0 and higher
[13:30]	Jeremy Linden:	Thanks for coming, Aargle.
[13:30]	Cummere Mayo:	hmm so if we are supposed to have a head tatoo layer i got a corrupted install of 2.1
[13:30]	Cummere Mayo:	tc aargle
[13:30]	Jeremy Linden:	Right... You can wear an alpha mask in Viewer 2.0 or higher, but Viewer 1.23 can view alpha masks properly.
[13:30]	Qie Niangao:	it's not a separate layer, it's a separate texture in the tattoo layer, Cummere.
[13:31]	Cummere Mayo:	anyways... might be good to add another layer too though so we can do both makeups and facial tats
[13:31]	Nathan Adored:	but you don't have to make the mask alpha, right?
[13:31]	Morgaine Dinova:	I'll have to ask the Imprudence team if alpha mask is scheduled for Imprudence some time.
[13:31]	Jonit Ivory:	it's in Emerald
[13:31]	Jeremy Linden:	I think the default is "completely invisible for that part of your body", Nathan.
[13:31]	Jonit Ivory:	hell should be in Imprudence by now
[13:31]	Morgaine Dinova:	Imprudence takes many things from Emerald. I might finish my aliens one day then :-)
[13:31]	Nathan Adored:	but can it be worn like a garment, tho?
[13:31]	Qie Niangao:	hmmm... I dunno if one can wear multiple tattoo layers... I bet we can
[13:32]	Jonit Ivory:	just find a texture with transparency, and set it as the layer
[13:32]	Jonit Ivory:	you can then work out what covers what
[13:32]	Jeremy Linden:	More or less, Nathan. It's another wearable, like skin or clothes.
[13:32]	Nathan Adored:	as in, right click and select wear at mask layer?
[13:32]	Nathan Adored:	kewl
[13:32]	Jeremy Linden:	Yep! Lemme see if I can screenshot one in my inventory quickly.
[13:33]	Morgaine Dinova:	Well remember that we can manufacture our own bakes now, and they need bear ***NO RELATIONSHIP*** to the clothes you equip. So you can bake in a million texture layers if you want, without even having them as assets in SL.
[13:33]	Jonit Ivory:	true true
[13:33]	Jonit Ivory:	I wonder if Sai will bake off his tummy
[13:33]	Nathan Adored:	wow
[13:33]	Nathan Adored:	/me wonders how soon this usage will propogate out to the OpenSim grids.
[13:34]	Jeremy Linden:	http://screencast.com/t/OTAxMGRlY
[13:34]	Morgaine Dinova:	All those content creators so agitated about copying, they should make their own bakes. Then their precious assets won't even be in SL at all.
[13:35]	Jonit Ivory:	*nods*
[13:35]	Jonit Ivory:	actually, how excited are we about HTTP textures rollout
[13:35]	Jonit Ivory:	and will this allow textures NOT to come from LL's servers?
[13:35]	Morgaine Dinova:	I like it a lot, Jonit
[13:35]	Jonit Ivory:	as do I
[13:35]	Jonit Ivory:	potentially
[13:35]	Jonit Ivory:	TextureTest was fast and lovely
[13:35]	Morgaine Dinova:	Yes, in due course. It's an enabler for interop.
[13:36]	Jonit Ivory:	indeed
[13:36]	Nathan Adored:	is there any danger of malware or exploits being propogated that way? oO
[13:36]	Jeremy Linden:	I'm not 100% filled in on the full capabilities of HTTP textures, but at the very least they should improve texture performance.
[13:36]	Jonit Ivory:	not by images squeezed to deaththrough JPEG200
[13:36]	Ashiri Sands:	looks very interesting, that project.
[13:36]	Jonit Ivory:	HTTP is live on Agni this week or next I think
[13:36]	Phoenixa Sol:	seeing the easel with WANTED on it, I can only hope the support ticket I filed an hour ago wont be ignored for six months
[13:37]	Qie Niangao:	well... IP address would still be associable to the avatar loading the texture, if outside LL's network. just like parcel media, shared media, and audio streams.
[13:37]	Bronson Blackadder:	the support ticket I sent in hasnt been touched in three weeks
[13:37]	Morgaine Dinova:	Images aren't executed anyway, It would be safe even if texture images were passed straight through. Same as on the web. Images aren't executed.
[13:37]	Jonit Ivory:	I doubt it, but they do seem to have farmed Livechat and first response off to 3rd parties
[13:37]	Jonit Ivory:	Jeremy, can you confirm?
[13:37]	Jonit Ivory	has pinged you.
[13:38]	Cummere Mayo:	dont mention livechat.
[13:38]	Phoenixa Sol:	far out, well an estate owner towld meher island would be gone tomorrow, they lied to her, her island is gone now along with my entire vendor. So by three weeks or more, my stuff will be long gone.
[13:38]	Jeremy Linden:	/me is not equipped to comment on the status or composition of Support, outside doc team.
[13:38]	Jonit Ivory:	jeremy, thanks, that made me smile
[13:38]	Jonit Ivory	has pinged you.
[13:38]	Cummere Mayo:	one of them banned an account for tellign her he was gonna try and get her fired... and she really deserves it
[13:39]	Morgaine Dinova:	Erk. Abuse of power.
[13:39]	Nathan Adored:	OO
[13:40]	Jonit Ivory:	So Jeremy, what's next in the doc team's plans?
[13:40]	Jonit Ivory	has pinged you.
[13:40]	Jonit Ivory:	Wiki being strengthened?
[13:40]	Morgaine Dinova:	Jira is moving to Jira4
[13:40]	Jeremy Linden:	Right now, we're working on ways to streamline the wiki/KB into something people will want to use. Personally, I'd like to push Viewer Help a bit more. I think not enough people know about it, and it could become a powerful tool.
[13:41]	Morgaine Dinova:	Presumably it covers LSL Help.
[13:41]	Qie Niangao:	Viewer 2 help is actually quite good... and I agree, not many people know about it.
[13:41]	Jonit Ivory:	do you think that the Wiki format is clunky (in a sense that it doesn't match up with the look and feel of the rest of LL's web efforts)?
[13:41]	Jonit Ivory:	and that many Resis will not know Wikipedia, and that format so well
[13:42]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hey, leave wiki alone, lol! The last thing it needs is a makeover --- it's meant to be functional, and it is!
[13:42]	Jeremy Linden:	Viewer Help doesn't cover LSL, but we did a few experiments on trying to re-skin the existing LSL content on the wiki into something usable by the Viewer Help engine.
[13:43]	Morgaine Dinova:	kk Jeremy, tnx
[13:43]	Morgaine Dinova	has pinged you.
[13:43]	Jonit Ivory:	nice
[13:43]	Qie Niangao:	actually, speaking of wiki skins: the Blender wiki is quite visually appealing.
[13:43]	Jeremy Linden:	As for the look and feel of the wiki, we're trying to fix that a little, but I don't know about a complete re-skin. It's definitely something to consider, if it would get more people to use it.
[13:43]	Jonit Ivory:	it is Morgaine, but look at it from a noobosh perspective
[13:43]	Jeremy Linden:	Blender, eh?
[13:44]	Jeremy Linden:	Do they use MediaWiki?
[13:44]	Qie Niangao:	yep
[13:44]	Jonit Ivory:	Si, Blender
[13:44]	Cummere Mayo:	jonit every noob ive sent to the wiki seems to have no trouble at all withit
[13:44]	Qie Niangao:	http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:2.5/Manual/Interface
[13:44]	Cummere Mayo:	its a familiar layout to anyone thats used any other wiki
[13:44]	Jonit Ivory:	allright
[13:44]	Cummere Mayo:	i honestly would hate to deal with the headaches if it was changed too much
[13:44]	Bronson Blackadder:	yeah teh look of the SL wiki is almost identical with wikipedia
[13:45]	Bronson Blackadder:	and others
[13:45]	Jeremy Linden:	Hm. That is pretty nice-looking.
[13:45]	Bronson Blackadder:	so its a familiarity of use
[13:45]	Cummere Mayo:	it really jsut needs updated and the search tweaked
[13:45]	Jonit Ivory:	Huh, Blender one looks neat, yes
[13:45]	Bronson Blackadder:	yep
[13:45]	Morgaine Dinova:	MediaWiki takes zero minutes to learn to navigate, a few minutes to learn to post, and no more than 15 minutes to learn to markup. I think newbs are plenty competent to handle wiki, it's really basic.
[13:45]	Jonit Ivory:	you think too much of the noobs, look at SLA
[13:45]	Jeremy Linden:	That's good to hear, Morgaine!
[13:46]	Jonit Ivory:	again and again they fail to find it
[13:46]	Morgaine Dinova:	Finding stuff seems to be problematic everywhere, hehe. Except for Google, who found the magic touch
[13:46]	Cummere Mayo:	sla isnt exactly right up front and personal as such
[13:47]	Laurent Bechir:	SL only noobs or computer noobs ? because the later ones won't be happy with any wiki
[13:47]	Cummere Mayo:	it looks like any other blog links...
[13:47]	Bronson Blackadder:	dont get me going on search
[13:47]	Jonit Ivory:	SLA is too good, it finds it all
[13:47]	Olive Dorben:	Jeremy I was wondering if you could put a SLURL in the image for the ad for this meeting on wiki. right now it just tells you the sim name. would be easier if you could just put a slurl in it :)
[13:47]	Olive Dorben	has pinged you.
[13:48]	Jeremy Linden:	Sure thing, Olive. It's been a few years since I updated that posting :-)
[13:48]	Olive Dorben:	cool thanks :)
[13:49]	Jeremy Linden:	Oh!
[13:49]	Jonit Ivory:	Huh?
[13:49]	Jeremy Linden:	There appears to be a SLURL there already. It's the clickable link that says "The 'Doc dock' in Beaumont"
[13:49]	Olive Dorben:	hmm I'll go look
[13:49]	Cummere Mayo:	might be a differant ad then?
[13:50]	Cummere Mayo:	theres probably a couple differant ones floating around...
[13:50]	Jeremy Linden:	Maybe. That's the only official listing I know of.
[13:50]	Olive Dorben:	No I think your right it just doesn't stand out like the ad image does
[13:50]	Olive Dorben:	I'm a bit slow
[13:51]	Jeremy Linden:	No worries! I'm often bad about posting or using SLurls, myself.
[13:51]	Olive Dorben:	Oh
[13:51]	Olive Dorben:	another question
[13:51]	Olive Dorben:	I have heard this from a few different people
[13:51]	Jonit Ivory:	All, I am called away, dinner is ready it seems, have a GREAT day!
[13:51]	Olive Dorben:	on the Wiki where Torley posted that it might not be correct info
[13:51]	Olive Dorben:	um
[13:51]	Jeremy Linden:	Thanks for coming, Jonit.
[13:51]	Nathan Adored:	bon apitit, Jonit
[13:52]	Olive Dorben:	in child avatars. It says that child avatars can go on any sim as logn as they don't involve themselves in sexual activity (that's easy enough). But can kids go into clubs as long as the sim owners don't mind?
[13:53]	Nathan Adored:	I actually had a guy eject me from his sim, WHILE i WAS WEARING CLOUD HAIR, because he saw my kid-av instead of the white puffy cloud he was supposed to see
[13:53]	Jeremy Linden:	I can't make any legal rulings, unfortunately. I think that's something that needs to be handled on a case-by-case basis. It would depend on a lot of other factors, some of which I probably wouldn't even think of right now :-)
[13:53]	Cummere Mayo:	not if its a strip club....
[13:54]	Cummere Mayo:	if its a strip club or sex club legally in most countries thats child porn
[13:54]	Nathan Adored:	He was telling me I had to switch to a non-kid-av form, and I genuinely thought he was talking philiophically and academically on this, because he knew I normally am a kid-av. It wasn't until hours later it dawned on me he wasn't seeing the cloud. oO
[13:54]	Nathan Adored:	And no, it wasn't a bloomin strip club
[13:55]	Bronson Blackadder:	yeah theres the debug setting for renderunloadedavatars
[13:55]	Olive Dorben:	well see it isn't the idea of being in a strip club that is appealing but wiki says it's okay as logn as kids don't do anything bad but someone else told me they called the 800 number and they said no kids in clubs at all
[13:55]	Bronson Blackadder:	so he saw teh unloaded avatar
[13:55]	Morgaine Dinova:	There are bigots around, Nathan. And there are simply people afraid of any taint too. Such is the world.
[13:56]	Nathan Adored:	Well, the guy has issues..... which I think are going to come back to haunt him alter.
[13:56]	Nathan Adored:	*later
[13:56]	Bronson Blackadder:	but of course if you are prancing around on an adult sim you probably are taking your chances at ejection
[13:56]	Cummere Mayo:	youll get differant answers differant places but gteam told me that no child avis in strip/sex clubs or clubs rated adult
[13:56]	Jeremy Linden:	Anyone here going to SLCC this year?
[13:56]	Ashiri Sands:	I wish...
[13:56]	Cummere Mayo:	but i can tell you from a legal standpoint, playing a kid avi on sl is really... a rought idea. and no jeremy i cant get the time off
[13:56]	Cummere Mayo	has pinged you.
[13:57]	Cummere Mayo:	*rough not rough
[13:57]	Bronson Blackadder:	too far away to drive
[13:57]	Bronson Blackadder:	too expensive to fly
[13:57]	Jeremy Linden:	I think the ball theme this year is "Come as your avatar". I think it's going to be pretty wild.
[13:57]	Cummere Mayo:	its a two day drive or a 5 hour plane trip.
[13:57]	Olive Dorben:	7 hour drive
[13:57]	Nathan Adored:	Thing is, this was someone I was hanging with for a year, and he had no problem with me then..... but because someone wanted to pay for 1/4th of his homestead sim, and wanted to have a policy change to allow naked furries at ground level (but NO sexual activities below 2000m)
[13:57]	Ashiri Sands:	SLCC is across an ocean from me ≪⁕⁔⁕≫
[13:57]	Bronson Blackadder:	lol I saw that as a two hour drive or a five day plane trip
[13:57]	Jeremy Linden:	/me has no excuse. It's a 45 minute drive.
[13:58]	Cummere Mayo:	and um i dont think i could pull off coming as cummere even if i could.... I dont have the tail for one...
[13:58]	Cummere Mayo:	nathan then if there were naked avis... yeah cant have a child avi then...
[13:58]	Nathan Adored:	And I didn;t know he'd made the change like that because it was one of these never-would-expect-that-in-a-million-years things.
[13:58]	Cummere Mayo:	that is listed on the sl wiki
[13:59]	Nathan Adored:	It mostly bother me that he'd allow a change like that, really, when it's probably 2 or 3 ppl pout of a large groupo pf ppl asking for it, and the rest probably woujldn't have cared or asked for it.... but it meant some ppl coldn't be there.... for what amounts to pure window dressing.
[13:59]	Cummere Mayo:	nathan
[13:59]	Cummere Mayo:	lets say a kid avi WAS on that sim and a naked furry was present
[13:59]	Time Minder:	You have been online for 1 hours.
[14:00]	Cummere Mayo:	now lets say -i- went to that sim
[14:00]	Tiny Blue	Kitty Head: All Go
[14:00]	Cummere Mayo:	I could take a pic and then scan ip addresses.
[14:00]	Cummere Mayo:	toss it off to my boss
[14:00]	Nathan Adored:	I mean, why MAKE the change at ground level to let there BE naked furries, when it;s likely ONLY one person wanting it in the first place?
[14:01]	Cummere Mayo:	probably was more then one nathan
[14:01]	Jeremy Linden:	Hm. That sounds like more of a social or philosophical problem, unfortunately.
[14:01]	Jeremy Linden:	[cutting here for transcript. It's 2:00!]

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