View source for Mesh/Archive/2011-04-11

== Agenda ==
#Where do the prim counts in the edit floater and those used for parcel content audit come from? [Drongle McMahon]
#Friday's tweak for depth of field completely broke the effect when entering camera fly mode with the Space Navigator. Specifically, it reverses the effect and it doesn't focus where the mouse cursor is. The way you had it, not having to click to focus when in camera fly mode, gave an amazing range of effects for movies and pictures. With this tweak the depth of field is useless with the Space Navigator  :((( [Angel Alphaville]
#Will it be made possible to drag/drop a texture on a rigged mesh that you're currently wearing? And tweak other settings via edit if it's modifiable-again, while you're wearing it? [Krystal Silverweb]
#Is there an explanation somewhere of the different parameter settings in the Auto Generate(LOD) section? [Krystal Silverweb]
#What's with the draconian mesh costs? [Chaos Borkotron]
#Will we ever have the rendering metadata that allowed you to see the dimensions of sculpt textures back in the client? Draconis Neurocam 11:13, 11 April 2011 (PDT)
#Is Charlar made of plywood or cheese?


== Meeting Notes ==

* [2011/04/11 11:09]  Nyx Linden: I'll add it to the agenda for you
* [2011/04/11 11:09]  Second Life: Try moving closer.  Can't sit on object because it is not in the same region as you.
* [2011/04/11 11:09]  Drongle McMahon: Which costs do you mean, Chaos?
* [2011/04/11 11:10]  Nyx Linden: are we ready to get started?
* [2011/04/11 11:10]  uoɹʇoʞɹoq soɐɥƆ (chaos.borkotron): well uploading a mesh with 256 faces and having SL autolod it, it costs 3 - 4 prims wtf
* [2011/04/11 11:10]  uoɹʇoʞɹoq soɐɥƆ (chaos.borkotron): the object is not massive and not tiny
* [2011/04/11 11:10]  uoɹʇoʞɹoq soɐɥƆ (chaos.borkotron): its around 10m by 3m by 5m
'''* [2011/04/11 11:10]  Charlar Linden: First item: Where do the prim counts in the edit floater and those used for parcel content audit come from? [Drongle McMahon]'''
* [2011/04/11 11:10]  Nyx Linden: its on the agenda, let's get started with the first topic
* [2011/04/11 11:10]  NEEDADISPENSERHERE (ac14.hutson): i assume he means prim costs. the hat im wearing used to be 1 prim but now its 5. its under 800 polys has only 1 face and has a proper physics shape (box) o.o
* [2011/04/11 11:11]  davep (runitai.linden): prim counts in the edit floater and parcel content audit come from the simulator
* [2011/04/11 11:11]  davep (runitai.linden): so there's going to be some disconnect between what you see on the mesh streaming cost wiki
* [2011/04/11 11:12]  davep (runitai.linden): and what you see on the debug displays
* [2011/04/11 11:12]  davep (runitai.linden): and what the simulator reports
* [2011/04/11 11:12]  Boy Genius (zslash.cyberstar): yeah ive noticed these weird costs too, like 1-200 triangles cost 3-6prims
* [2011/04/11 11:12]  Cobalt Neutra: I've seen some severe discrepancies between what's shown at upload time and what you get in-world
* [2011/04/11 11:12]  uoɹʇoʞɹoq soɐɥƆ (chaos.borkotron): oh crap i need 2 relog
* [2011/04/11 11:12]  davep (runitai.linden): until the equations are ready for a sim push and a simulator incorporating the changes gets pushed
* [2011/04/11 11:12]  Drongle McMahon: Runitai ... when does the sim calculate them?
* [2011/04/11 11:12]  davep (runitai.linden): the new model is VERY punishing when you don't use LoD at all
* [2011/04/11 11:13]  uoɹʇoʞɹoq soɐɥƆ (chaos.borkotron): why do we have to wait a whole month and a half until mesh release ._.
* [2011/04/11 11:13]  Boy Genius (zslash.cyberstar): i tried different lods high and low poly, its still high cost
* [2011/04/11 11:13]  Asha (ashasekayi.ra): Who said it will be released in a month and a half?
* [2011/04/11 11:13]  davep (runitai.linden): and it's still a WIP
* [2011/04/11 11:13]  NEEDADISPENSERHERE (ac14.hutson): because i ahve ended up insta-crashing sims multiple times jsut from dragging and dropping something (lol)
* [2011/04/11 11:13]  Nyx Linden: its clearly not ready for release yet guys :)
* [2011/04/11 11:13]  davep (runitai.linden): tuning tuning tuning
* [2011/04/11 11:13]  Drongle McMahon: Theere is a strange error with it, Runitai - cts 536. The radius is being squarted before it gets there.
* [2011/04/11 11:14]  davep (runitai.linden): kk, will take a look
* [2011/04/11 11:14]  Cobalt Neutra: I uploaded a test object the other day - at upload time the prim weight was given as 11. after I got it in-world, it was 22 with prim physics, and 6 with the hull. oddly, if I shift-dragged the convex hull one, the copy came out at 3.
* [2011/04/11 11:14]  Nyx Linden: the upload estimates aren't accurate yet
* [2011/04/11 11:14]  Cobalt Neutra: so, 22 or 3. not 11.
* [2011/04/11 11:14]  Nyx Linden: we're going to have the sim perform the estimate before upload, but right now the upload estimate numbers are wrong.
* [2011/04/11 11:14]  davep (runitai.linden): cobalt: that's the disconnect between the viewer estimate and the simulator I was talking about
* [2011/04/11 11:15]  Cobalt Neutra: ok
* [2011/04/11 11:15]  Latif Khalifa: seems rather messi and confusing, the whole cost thing
* [2011/04/11 11:15]  Boy Genius (zslash.cyberstar): agreed
* [2011/04/11 11:15]  davep (runitai.linden): the viewer estimate is the experimental, work in progress equation
* [2011/04/11 11:15]  Cobalt Neutra: why is the shift-dragged copy half, though? I'm assuming that's a bug
* [2011/04/11 11:15]  davep (runitai.linden): the simulator reported value is the last deployed equation
* [2011/04/11 11:15]  davep (runitai.linden): cobalt: probably changed the physics shape type?
* [2011/04/11 11:15]  davep (runitai.linden): or the simulator hasn't reported the new streaming cost yet
* [2011/04/11 11:15]  Cobalt Neutra: nope/ convex hull before and after
* [2011/04/11 11:15]  davep (runitai.linden): select and deselect and see if it updates
* [2011/04/11 11:16]  davep (runitai.linden): or it could be a bug
* [2011/04/11 11:16]  Cobalt Neutra: I took it back into inventory and re-rezzed it with the lower number still showing
* [2011/04/11 11:16]  davep (runitai.linden): kk, I'll poke the sim guys about that
* [2011/04/11 11:16]  NEEDADISPENSERHERE (ac14.hutson): free prims!
* [2011/04/11 11:17]  davep (runitai.linden): cobalt: actually, could you file a jira on that?
* [2011/04/11 11:17]  davep (runitai.linden): with the specific object and repro steps
* [2011/04/11 11:17]  Cobalt Neutra: ok. will do
* [2011/04/11 11:17]  Nyx Linden: we'll throw out sim devs at the issue :)
* [2011/04/11 11:17]  davep (runitai.linden): awesome, thanks
* [2011/04/11 11:17]  Nyx Linden: *our
* [2011/04/11 11:17]  Charlar Linden: next item:?
* [2011/04/11 11:17]  Ranya Palmer: sure
'''* [2011/04/11 11:17]  Charlar Linden: Friday's tweak for depth of field completely broke the effect when entering camera fly mode with the Space Navigator. Specifically, it reverses the effect and it doesn't focus where the mouse cursor is. The way you had it, not having to click to focus when in camera fly mode, gave an amazing range of effects for movies and pictures. With this tweak the depth of field is useless with the Space Navigator :((( [Angel Alphaville]'''
* [2011/04/11 11:18]  davep (runitai.linden): that's an uninteded side effect, I'll reopen the internal task and take a look
* [2011/04/11 11:20]  Nyx Linden: can we get a JIRA for that new bug please? it helps us make sure we get to the task
'''* [2011/04/11 11:20]  Charlar Linden: next: Will it be made possible to drag/drop a texture on a rigged mesh that you're currently wearing? And tweak other settings via edit if it's modifiable-again, while you're wearing it? [Krystal Silverweb]'''
* [2011/04/11 11:20]  davep (runitai.linden): yes, once we get picking of rigged attachments fixed
* [2011/04/11 11:20]  Ranya Palmer: will that include resizing?
* [2011/04/11 11:21]  Krystal Silverweb: yay ty :)
* [2011/04/11 11:21]  Asha (ashasekayi.ra): Will there be scale at that point?
* [2011/04/11 11:21]  davep (runitai.linden): no
* [2011/04/11 11:21]  Charlar Linden: ok, moving on...
* [2011/04/11 11:21]  Charlar Linden: quick meeting today
'''* [2011/04/11 11:22]  Charlar Linden: next: Is there an explanation somewhere of the different parameter settings in the Auto Generate(LOD) section? [Krystal Silverweb]'''
* [2011/04/11 11:22]  davep (runitai.linden): yes, there is
* [2011/04/11 11:22]  davep (runitai.linden): we use GLOD for the decimator
* [2011/04/11 11:22]  davep (runitai.linden): http://www.cs.jhu.edu/~graphics/GLOD/
* [2011/04/11 11:22]  davep (runitai.linden): http://www.cs.jhu.edu/~graphics/GLOD/npp_html/index.html
* [2011/04/11 11:23]  davep (runitai.linden): specifically, you're interestedin this:
* [2011/04/11 11:23]  davep (runitai.linden): http://www.cs.jhu.edu/~graphics/GLOD/npp_html/glodObjectParameter.html
* [2011/04/11 11:23]  davep (runitai.linden): and this:
* [2011/04/11 11:23]  davep (runitai.linden): http://www.cs.jhu.edu/~graphics/GLOD/npp_html/glodGroupParameter.html
* [2011/04/11 11:23]  davep (runitai.linden): we use GLOD because a) it's open source, b) it's decently fast, c) it preserves texture coordinate and normal data
* [2011/04/11 11:23]  davep (runitai.linden): all the other open source decimators we looked at just dealt with point clouds
* [2011/04/11 11:24]  davep (runitai.linden): and making them preserve texture coordinates, etc, was problematic
* [2011/04/11 11:24]  Krystal Silverweb: ok, does this just have to do with lowering the vertex count then? does anything have to do with the vertex weighting? how that gets interpolated?
* [2011/04/11 11:24]  davep (runitai.linden): EXCELLENT question
* [2011/04/11 11:24]  Krystal Silverweb: because i'm having some issues with that lol
* [2011/04/11 11:24]  davep (runitai.linden): the weighting currently does NOT get interpolated as far as I know
* [2011/04/11 11:25]  davep (runitai.linden): we take the base model and just use the closest point from the base mesh as the reference for the decimated mesh
* [2011/04/11 11:25]  Brookston Holiday: hmmmm..... wait a momment, so each LOD doesn't have a different UV map? Or am I misunderstanding what preserving texture coordinates means?
* [2011/04/11 11:25]  davep (runitai.linden): so half-edge collapse is probably a bad idea for rigged attachments
* [2011/04/11 11:25]  Krystal Silverweb: I filed on a jira on it, if some vertices are closer to other bones they stick to those-instead of the ones they're supposed to
* [2011/04/11 11:25]  davep (runitai.linden): uv's get interpolated
* [2011/04/11 11:25]  davep (runitai.linden): but weights for rigging do not
* [2011/04/11 11:26]  Krystal Silverweb: even if i put in my own lod models
* [2011/04/11 11:26]  davep (runitai.linden): if you use your own lod models, glod doesn't come into play at all
* [2011/04/11 11:26]  Brookston Holiday: And each LOD get's it's own UV map?
* [2011/04/11 11:26]  davep (runitai.linden): but we probably still use the weights from the base mesh
* [2011/04/11 11:27]  Krystal Silverweb: are they supposed to use their own "skin weights"? each lod? or do they get interpolated from the main mesh?
* [2011/04/11 11:27]  davep (runitai.linden): so if you want to upload a sample set of .daes and file a bug, that would be awesome
* [2011/04/11 11:27]  davep (runitai.linden): (don't have any test content with weights and explicit LoD)
* [2011/04/11 11:27]  Krystal Silverweb: I did do that
* [2011/04/11 11:27]  davep (runitai.linden): link?
* [2011/04/11 11:27]  davep (runitai.linden): (we're a little behind on triage)
* [2011/04/11 11:27]  Krystal Silverweb: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-525
* [2011/04/11 11:28]  Nyx Linden: can you attacht he dae files for the different LODs? you can upload them as private
* [2011/04/11 11:29]  davep (runitai.linden): kk, setting that to major
* [2011/04/11 11:29]  Krystal Silverweb: ok , i'll see how to upload them as private and do that :)
* [2011/04/11 11:29]  Nyx Linden: feel free to ping me directly if you have trouble doing so :)
* [2011/04/11 11:29]  Krystal Silverweb: ok ty :)
* [2011/04/11 11:30]  Drongle McMahon: Oh dear. That makes the whole entry private, doesn't it?
* [2011/04/11 11:30]  Nyx Linden: no
* [2011/04/11 11:30]  davep (runitai.linden): just the attachment download link
* [2011/04/11 11:30]  Drongle McMahon: Oh, good.
* [2011/04/11 11:30]  Nyx Linden: you can specify privacy on the individual attachments
* [2011/04/11 11:30]  Charlar Linden: ready for the next item?
* [2011/04/11 11:30]  Asha (ashasekayi.ra): Yes
* [2011/04/11 11:30]  Nyx Linden: I'll make a note to write up a guide on the forums
* [2011/04/11 11:31]  Charlar Linden: ok
'''* [2011/04/11 11:31]  Charlar Linden: next item: What's with the draconian mesh costs? [Chaos Borkotron] -- 'draconion'? Really?'''
* [2011/04/11 11:32]  Charlar Linden: Mesh costs aren't final
* [2011/04/11 11:32]  davep (runitai.linden): they're not final, it's a work in progress
* [2011/04/11 11:32]  Drongle McMahon: We did that already, didn't we?
* [2011/04/11 11:32]  davep (runitai.linden): but with good LoD, you can get millions of triangles per region
* [2011/04/11 11:32]  Asha (ashasekayi.ra): So, there is a chance the count will go lower?
* [2011/04/11 11:33]  Brookston Holiday: I WANT BILLIONS, BILLIONS DAMN U!
* [2011/04/11 11:33]  Brookston Holiday: sorry
* [2011/04/11 11:33]  Nyx Linden: my processors can't handle billions per frame :)
* [2011/04/11 11:33]  draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): 1.21 gigapolys
* [2011/04/11 11:33]  Timmi Allen: :-)
* [2011/04/11 11:33]  Aki (aki.shichiroji): Chaos doesn't seem to be around to discuss his question...
* [2011/04/11 11:33]  NEEDADISPENSERHERE (ac14.hutson): a good mesh should cost less then a bad sculptie!
* [2011/04/11 11:33]  Drongle McMahon: Trouble is they can always lower it after release, but never raise it... so caution will prevail.
* [2011/04/11 11:33]  Charlar Linden: He'll have to read the meeting notes
* [2011/04/11 11:34]  davep (runitai.linden): ac14: apples to oranges
* [2011/04/11 11:34]  Cobalt Neutra: I think we'd all appreciate the cost being as low as possible. I know a couple of objects I made that weighed in at one prim now cost five or more. And they're not that complex.
* [2011/04/11 11:35]  davep (runitai.linden): sure, but what's the polycount of the lowest LoD ?
* [2011/04/11 11:35]  davep (runitai.linden): your cost gets exponentially lower until you hit a 25% LoD ratio
* [2011/04/11 11:35]  Bloodsong Termagant: funny, i reuploaded some mesh and they were lower prim count than they used to be.
* [2011/04/11 11:35]  Drongle McMahon: I do think it's important. If it;s too high, people will go on using inefficient and ugly sculpties.
* [2011/04/11 11:36]  Nyx Linden: and if its too low we make mesh regions run slower than sculptie builds by having more geometry on the sim. Its a tough balance
* [2011/04/11 11:36]  davep (runitai.linden): look at it this way -- we need to show 125K triangles per frame wherever you are on the region
* [2011/04/11 11:36]  Nyx Linden: and one we don't think we've struck yet. the numbers aren't ready.
* [2011/04/11 11:36]  NielArcher: are we being rick-rolled?
* [2011/04/11 11:36]  Brookston Holiday: Yeah, the trick is to price mesh in a way that captures the increased efficiency on the margins, not drive people towards older less efficient tools.
* [2011/04/11 11:36]  davep (runitai.linden): the lowest LoD is effectively displayed EVERYWHERE
* [2011/04/11 11:36]  Charlar Linden: We hope that once we're ready to test costs you'll give us GOOD feedback on it.
* [2011/04/11 11:36]  davep (runitai.linden): so you get 8 triangles per prim at the lowest LoD
* [2011/04/11 11:37]  Charlar Linden: I have faith in you
* [2011/04/11 11:37]  davep (runitai.linden): the new cost reflects this reality
* [2011/04/11 11:37]  Asha (ashasekayi.ra): How many triangles do you get per prim at high LOD?
* [2011/04/11 11:38]  NEEDADISPENSERHERE (ac14.hutson): /me is just going to end up using poxes and traingles as lowest LOD
* [2011/04/11 11:38]  Drongle McMahon: Depends how big it is!
* [2011/04/11 11:38]  davep (runitai.linden): aye
* [2011/04/11 11:38]  Brookston Holiday: You would want the cost to reflect that reality if normal prims and sculpts didn't exist, but since they do, you aren't getting as much of a an efficiency gain as you could with a slightly more generous cost
* [2011/04/11 11:38]  Asha (ashasekayi.ra): Oh ok
* [2011/04/11 11:38]  davep (runitai.linden): I've got a 2000 poly torus that's 2 prims
* [2011/04/11 11:38]  davep (runitai.linden): at 1m
* [2011/04/11 11:38]  Latif Khalifa: it can be a lot, over 1000
* [2011/04/11 11:38]  davep (runitai.linden): (thanks drongle for the torus)
* [2011/04/11 11:38]  davep (runitai.linden): Brookston: apples to oranges
* [2011/04/11 11:39]  Brookston Holiday: FRUIT
* [2011/04/11 11:39]  davep (runitai.linden): comparing meshes to prims just doesn't matter
* [2011/04/11 11:39]  Brookston Holiday: of course it does
* [2011/04/11 11:39]  Boy Genius (zslash.cyberstar): what why not ?
* [2011/04/11 11:39]  Latif Khalifa: runtai, it mattares if you end up continuing to use prims because it's "cheaper"
* [2011/04/11 11:39]  Brookston Holiday: that is silly
* [2011/04/11 11:40]  Boy Genius (zslash.cyberstar): agreed...
* [2011/04/11 11:40]  NEEDADISPENSERHERE (ac14.hutson): in the "real world" its going to matter because people will use both
* [2011/04/11 11:40]  Asha (ashasekayi.ra): The layperson in SL will compare them.
* [2011/04/11 11:41]  Brookston Holiday: Not just the layperson, anyone who is selling products in SL will have incentive to use less efficient sculpts/prims if it means a lower prim cost, because that is what your entire economy is based on.
* [2011/04/11 11:41]  davep (runitai.linden): the "correct" solution to that is to make prims more expensive, and I know you don't want us to do that
* [2011/04/11 11:41]  Brookston Holiday: I DO
* [2011/04/11 11:41]  Latif Khalifa: you want to close the shop early?
* [2011/04/11 11:41]  Latif Khalifa: you cannot change "the cost" of prims
* [2011/04/11 11:41]  Drongle McMahon: Ban prims! (/me ducks)
* [2011/04/11 11:41]  Timmi Allen: It is a paradox. The technician says that the cost of a mesh must conform to the performance. More polygons = more power = higher costs!  The practitioner says that the cost must be accepted by the user, otherwise we have no better performance. So everything turns in circles. The cat biting its tail. Irgenwann is the chief tells us power regardless of the user, it is vital, because if we have no users, then we have no money and no power.
* [2011/04/11 11:41]  Asha (ashasekayi.ra): /me chuckles at Drongle.
* [2011/04/11 11:42]  Latif Khalifa: so your only option is to pick reasonable "cost" for meshes compared to prims
* [2011/04/11 11:42]  Nyx Linden: I see it more as a balance than a paradox :)
* [2011/04/11 11:42]  Charlar Linden: ok, well we're all on the same page - we want to make meshes popular; it's in our best interest to do so.
* [2011/04/11 11:42]  Timmi Allen: :-)
* [2011/04/11 11:42]  Charlar Linden: let's move on
* [2011/04/11 11:42]  Cobalt Neutra: I just want to see if I understand something said earlier. lowest LOD needs to be eight trangles?
* [2011/04/11 11:43]  Boy Genius (zslash.cyberstar): in order to make meshes "popular" is not to make it higher cost per tri compared to sculptie or prim
* [2011/04/11 11:43]  Brookston Holiday: but the lower bound should be actual streaming cost, the high bound should be sculpty equivalency, and right now you're aiming for the low bound and not some sweet spot in the middle, IMHO
* [2011/04/11 11:43]  Krystal Silverweb: meshes will be more popular by default since they're easier to make
* [2011/04/11 11:44]  NEEDADISPENSERHERE (ac14.hutson): i guess he means that it needs to be 8 triangles if every prim in the sim is a mesh ( guiess that dosent count for the idiots wo will wear 3 sets of mesh hair at 155 prim cost each, eating half that amount)
* [2011/04/11 11:44]  Asha (ashasekayi.ra): Not if the prim cost is too high Krystal.\
* [2011/04/11 11:44]  Boy Genius (zslash.cyberstar): should have a primcost limit on total wearables
* [2011/04/11 11:44]  davep (runitai.linden): Cobalt: lowest LoD can be whatever, but you'll get charged probably about 1 prim for every 8 triangles
* [2011/04/11 11:44]  Eleanora Newell: not if it costs too much more to make....you'll just see a balance of prims, sculpts and mesh used judiciously
* [2011/04/11 11:44]  Cobalt Neutra: ok. was onna say. you get like, eight texture slots. if lowest LOD only gives you eight triangles - that's one texture per triangle. You can't even make a cube from that.
* [2011/04/11 11:44]  NEEDADISPENSERHERE (ac14.hutson): there already is 255x35 or whatever
* [2011/04/11 11:45]  davep (runitai.linden): anyway, 2000 triangles in the high lod with a 25% ratio and a 1m size equalling 2 prims IS roughly sculpty equivalent
* [2011/04/11 11:45]  Drongle McMahon: Meshes are also MUCH better for textures etc. That is worth a bit of extra cost.
* [2011/04/11 11:45]  Charlar Linden: getting ready to move on...
* [2011/04/11 11:45]  NEEDADISPENSERHERE (ac14.hutson): bottom line= sculpties already cost too much
* [2011/04/11 11:46]  Ranya Palmer: and are much harder to produce
* [2011/04/11 11:46]  Brookston Holiday: Dave, that isn't the situation where someone will be deciding between sculpt and mesh, it will be when you are using large builds that people will switch to prims/sculpts
* [2011/04/11 11:46]  NEEDADISPENSERHERE (ac14.hutson): (cost to the sim)
* [2011/04/11 11:47]  Drongle McMahon: It;s the increase of cost with size that gets really punishing and doesn't affect sculpties.
* [2011/04/11 11:47]  Charlar Linden: and Scene.
'''* [2011/04/11 11:47]  Charlar Linden: Will we ever have the rendering metadata that allowed you to see the dimensions of sculpt textures back in the client? Draconis Neurocam 11:13, 11 April 2011 (PDT)'''
* [2011/04/11 11:47]  Nyx Linden: oooh good request
* [2011/04/11 11:47]  draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): i miss it
* [2011/04/11 11:48]  Nyx Linden: to be honest I didn't know we had that!
* [2011/04/11 11:48]  draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): it was in 1.23
* [2011/04/11 11:48]  draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): got lost in 2.0 transition
* [2011/04/11 11:48]  Nyx Linden: ahh I see
* [2011/04/11 11:49]  Nyx Linden: draconis - is there a jira requesting its return?
* [2011/04/11 11:49]  draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): should i make one as cts?
* [2011/04/11 11:49]  Nyx Linden: not cts, as its not mesh specific :)
* [2011/04/11 11:49]  draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): i havent looked
* [2011/04/11 11:49]  Nyx Linden: VWR should be fine
* [2011/04/11 11:49]  draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): alright, ill ping you of it if i find, or make one?
* [2011/04/11 11:49]  Nyx Linden: please email me the issue number when you find or create one :)
* [2011/04/11 11:50]  draconis.neurocam (draconis.neurocam): sure thing
* [2011/04/11 11:50]  Nyx Linden: thanks!
* [2011/04/11 11:50]  Charlar Linden: ok, on to the final one, I'm sure this is something very important to everyone
'''* [2011/04/11 11:50]  Charlar Linden: Is Charlar made of plywood or cheese?'''
* [2011/04/11 11:50]  Ranya Palmer: mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm cheese
* [2011/04/11 11:50]  useless but mindless (ansi.soderstrom): o.O
* [2011/04/11 11:51]  useless but mindless (ansi.soderstrom): i push you again :)
* [2011/04/11 11:51]  Charlar Linden: I am plywood today. Tomorrow, who knows?
* [2011/04/11 11:51]  Krystal Silverweb: got a last question.... is there a way to see the full skeleton in world? (not just the collision skeleton bones)
* [2011/04/11 11:51]  Boy Genius (zslash.cyberstar): chocolate
* [2011/04/11 11:52]  davep (runitai.linden): what bones are missing from the collision skeleton?
* [2011/04/11 11:52]  Krystal Silverweb: I thought there were others, but perhaps it is just the skeleton file people have made... such as ankle bones.um..i have a bigger list just have to get it
* [2011/04/11 11:53]  Krystal Silverweb: so is the default avatar skeleton just 21 bones then?
* [2011/04/11 11:53]  davep (runitai.linden): hmm, it's missing the eyes
* [2011/04/11 11:54]  davep (runitai.linden): and there's an ankle joint
* [2011/04/11 11:54]  Charlar Linden: ok, if there's nothign else...
* [2011/04/11 11:54]  davep (runitai.linden): (foot bone is made of ankle joint and a terminator)
* [2011/04/11 11:54]  Bloodsong Termagant: real quick if you got an url: if someone hasn't been on the beta before now, is there any info or start guide where they can go to get up to speed?
* [2011/04/11 11:54]  Charlar Linden: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh
* [2011/04/11 11:55]  Vincent Nacon: yeah.. I'm late, anyone got transcript?
* [2011/04/11 11:55]  Bloodsong Termagant: thank you kindly.
* [2011/04/11 11:55]  Boy Genius (zslash.cyberstar): ive been making some mesh vehicles and sometimes or very often i get stuck inside geometri, have to edit and move it out to get unstuck, is this mesh related or the phys engine ?
* [2011/04/11 11:55]  Charlar Linden: Also, the mesh forum is full of helpful people
* [2011/04/11 11:55]  Nyx Linden: Vincent- we'll be posting a transcript after the meeting
* [2011/04/11 11:55]  Nyx Linden: look on the mesh forum :)
* [2011/04/11 11:55]  Krystal Silverweb: toe, ankle, and yeah eyes are the missing ones i think
* [2011/04/11 11:55]  davep (runitai.linden): default skeleton is 26 joints, it looks like
* [2011/04/11 11:56]  Asha (ashasekayi.ra): Is there a list posted of the 21 bones needed for joint offsets?
* [2011/04/11 11:56]  davep (runitai.linden): (joints/bones often get confouneded when talking about skeletons)
* [2011/04/11 11:56]  Reed (reed.steamroller): i have a mesh that kills the importer and the viewer every time, going to post to jira
* [2011/04/11 11:56]  davep (runitai.linden): it's in the code, I'll paste it here
* [2011/04/11 11:56]  Eleanora Newell: thanks, runitai
* [2011/04/11 11:56]  Charlar Linden: mesh forum: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/bd-p/Mesh
* [2011/04/11 11:57]  Krystal Silverweb: Prep linden posted here that 21 bones were required , so i wondered about the other ones: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-472
* [2011/04/11 11:58]  davep (runitai.linden):
  mJointMap["mPelvis"] = "mPelvis";
  mJointMap["mTorso"] = "mTorso";
  mJointMap["mChest"] = "mChest";
  mJointMap["mNeck"] = "mNeck";
  mJointMap["mHead"] = "mHead";
  mJointMap["mSkull"] = "mSkull";
  mJointMap["mEyeRight"] = "mEyeRight";
  mJointMap["mEyeLeft"] = "mEyeLeft";
  mJointMap["mCollarLeft"] = "mCollarLeft";
  mJointMap["mShoulderLeft"] = "mShoulderLeft";
  mJointMap["mElbowLeft"] = "mElbowLeft";
  mJointMap["mWristLeft"] = "mWristLeft";
  mJointMap["mCollarRight"] = "mCollarRight";
  mJointMap["mShoulderRight"] = "mShoulderRight";
  mJointMap["mElbowRight"] = "mElbowRight";
  mJointMap["mWristRight"] = "mWristRight";
  mJointMap["mHipRight"] = "mHipRight";
  mJointMap["mKneeRight"] = "mKneeRight";
  mJointMap["mAnkleRight"] = "mAnkleRight";
  mJointMap["mFootRight"] = "mFootRight";
  mJointMap["mToeRight"] = "mToeRight";
  mJointMap["mHipLeft"] = "mHipLeft";
  mJointMap["mKneeLeft"] = "mKneeLeft";
  mJointMap["mAnkleLeft"] = "mAnkleLeft";
  mJointMap["mFootLeft"] = "mFootLeft";
  mJointMap["mToe
* [2011/04/11 11:58]  davep (runitai.linden): hmm, putting it in the forums
* [2011/04/11 11:58]  Charlar Linden: Thanks everybody - see you next week, or around aditi.
* [2011/04/11 11:58]  Eleanora Newell: thank you, everyone
* [2011/04/11 11:58]  Aki (aki.shichiroji): Thanks for the session
* [2011/04/11 11:58]  Nyx Linden: thanks for coming all!
* [2011/04/11 11:58]  Eleanora Newell: see you all soon
* [2011/04/11 11:58]  Skygirl Kline: byes
* [2011/04/11 11:58]  davep (runitai.linden): http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Joint-names/td-p/810861
* [2011/04/11 11:58]  Aki (aki.shichiroji): bye all
* [2011/04/11 11:58]  Bloodsong Termagant: your toe got cut off there.
* [2011/04/11 11:58]  Skygirl Kline: it was a good one
* [2011/04/11 11:58]  davep (runitai.linden): man, the formatting got all screwed up
* [2011/04/11 11:58]  oobscure (opensource.obscure): bye everybody
* [2011/04/11 11:58]  NielArcher: bye
* [2011/04/11 11:58]  Charlar Linden: tip your waiters
* [2011/04/11 11:59]  Timmi Allen: danke für die Sitzung
* [2011/04/11 11:59]  Bloodsong Termagant: ah, bueno.
* [2011/04/11 11:59]  Timmi Allen: bye
* [2011/04/11 11:59]  Asha (ashasekayi.ra): Thanks for the list :)