Mesh/Archive/2011-06-06

Agenda

1. What's the current focus for the Mesh team? Where should residents focus to assist with testing new features?
2. Bone lengths! Please give us an update on this.
3. Presently, decomposing physics shape with multiple objects greys out upload button and prevents upload. Is this restriction intended? Will it remain through release? [Drongle McMahon]
4. Will the mesh beta regions remain after release? If not, at which stage will they disappear? If so, for how long? [Drongle]
5. Ensure physics type stays consistent between rezzes. Some meshes default to Convex Hull (even with a physics shape) when spawned by an object.
6. When creating a partially-rigged mesh (ie: a shirt), how much of the skeleton rig is required in the dae? The whole thing? The relevant bones only? Everything from the hip up through the relevant bones? [bloodsong]
7. If two rigged meshes are worn and both have custom bone length/positions, which settings will be used? [bloodsong]
8. very strange behaviour on Mesh sandbox 20: new uploaded mesh rezzes as flat disc. sculpties do not rezz. Is that a known bug ? [Gaia Clary]
9. Will fractional prim costs be used to calculate the total prim usage on a land (can there be actually more than 15000 prims on a sim ?) or will we always have to pay an integer number of prims regardless of the fractional cost ? [Gaia Clary]
10. Not a mesh issue per se, but (IMHO) very related: Have you ever thought of also introducing fractional costs for sculpties with small sculptmaps ? e.g. make a sculpty made of 4*4 faces significantly cheaper than a sculpty of 32*32 faces ?
11. (When...) can we expect to see a reliable prim-cost display in the object editor ? [Gaia Clary]
12. Costs display: Even with the hover text it is not clear to me how much my prim actually costs. is it always the "cost:prims", or always the higher one of "cost:prims" and "cost:physics complexity" ? [Gaia Clary]
13. Do you plan to add a generic import tool for ALL sorts of prims(regular prims,sculptes,meshes) similar to what is used e.g. by Phoenix as backup solution for regular prims and sculpties at the moment ? [Gaia Clary]
14. If some third party would provide such an import tool for regular prims, sculpties and meshes, would that tool fall under the category "third party viewer" even if it has no graphical interface (no 3D viewer) ? [Gaia Clary]
15. I'm trying to upload a model with 17968 tri and 13292 verts. The auto generated medium LOD counts 5988 tris and 5700 verts. I made a medium LOD with 2762 tris and 4853 verts, less than the auto generated LOD, but the uploader says "Level of details has too many vertices". It seems this message needs to contain some more information. [Mikki Miles]
16. developer-> render metadata-> render physic costs turns my viewer window black and I can't see any physic shapes. [Mikki Miles]
17. Can you give us an estimate of when we will get a viewer to upload new mesh format? [Drongle]
18. What is "PRIM TEST 11.05.23.230743" on Mesh City 2 and why can't it upload mesh? [Drongle]
19. Is there a change increasing streaming cost calculation in Mesh Import 11.06.02.231785, and can we have the details? [Drongle]
20. I made a physics shape for an arch that has an opening. If I pick analyze in the uploader, it closes the hole. Should we not try to decompose shapes with openings? [Ashasekayi Ra]
21. With the announcement of mesh on SL grid coming at such a quick date, is there any documentation yet? [Eleanora Newell]
22. is there a list of Sims which will receive first customer roll outs ? Can we get on this list with one sim ? [gaia]
23. Can we haz a Streaming costs for Dummies! edition of that wiki page please? [Eleanora Newell]
24. please add your agenda items here

Meeting Notes

Attendees List

• Abel Dreamscape (abel.dreamscape)
• Aki (aki.shichiroji)
• arton Rotaru (arton.rotaru)
• Asha (ashasekayi.ra)
• Charlar Linden (charlar.linden)
• Dahlia Trimble (dahlia.trimble)
• Drongle McMahon (drongle.mcmahon)
• Eleanora Newell (eleanora.newell)
• Failed Inventor (failed.inventor)
• Falcon Linden (falcon.linden)
• Gaia Clary (gaia.clary)
• Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)
• Jira Helper (jira.helper)
• Latif Khalifa (latif.khalifa) (User's Wiki Page)
• LSL Scientist (lsl.scientist)
• Mikki Miles (mikki.miles)
• Nyx Linden (nyx.linden) (User's Wiki Page)
• Prep Linden (prep.linden)
• Rex Cronon (rex.cronon) (User's Wiki Page)
• davep (runitai.linden)
• Rusalka Writer (rusalka.writer)
• summse Sands (summse.sands)
• And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith)
• Vincent Nacon (vincent.nacon) (User's Wiki Page)
• Vir Linden (vir.linden)
• Vivienne Daguerre (vivienne.daguerre)
• Zeus Ravenheart (zeus.ravenheart)

Transcript for Monday June 6, 2011

[12:01]	Failed Inventor	look... I think I saw charlar in that new bradpitt movie.
[12:01]	Failed Inventor	bwhaah
[12:01]	summse Sands	hi cahrlar
[12:02]	Zeus Ravenheart	I see 3 already hehe
[12:02]	Zeus Ravenheart	4
[12:02]	Zeus Ravenheart	5
[12:02]	Zeus Ravenheart	wiow
[12:02]	summse Sands	pih
[12:02]	summse Sands	oih
[12:02]	Charlar Linden	Alright, we've got a lot of items - better get started
[12:02]	Vincent Nacon	/me wonders if Falcon linden is attending today
[12:03]	Nyx Linden	he may be a bit late
[12:03]	Charlar Linden	yep
[12:03]	Charlar Linden	ok, first item:
[12:03]	Charlar Linden	What's the current focus for the Mesh team? Where should residents focus to assist with testing new features?
[12:03]	Drongle McMahon	Yes. The falcon av competition must be over.
[12:03]	Vincent Nacon	I'm here for the physic
[12:04]	Vincent Nacon	sorry, carry on
[12:04]	Rex Cronon	greetings all
[12:04]	davep (runitai.linden)	Did some work on indexed texture rendering last week to reduce the number of draw calls
[12:04]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	Hey Rex
[12:04]	davep (runitai.linden)	so giving the renderer the stink eye would be a good thing
[12:04]	Nyx Linden	we're working on getting the new upload pipeline rolled out. Once we do, we'll post on the forums and we'll definitely need testing help there!
[12:05]	Rusalka Writer	We can crash anything.
[12:05]	Rex Cronon	hey ashasekayi
[12:05]	Charlar Linden	OK, next item:
[12:05]	Charlar Linden	Bone lengths! Please give us an update on this.
[12:05]	Nyx Linden	(20 topics, we're going to go light speed today. let us know if we gloss over anything too much)
[12:06]	Prep Linden	Bone scales and rotations probably won't make it for the initial release - but. I'm hopeful to get to it shortly after the initial mesh release.
[12:06]	Charlar Linden	next:
[12:06]	Charlar Linden	Presently, decomposing physics shape with multiple objects greys out upload button and prevents upload. Is this restriction intended? Will it remain through release? [Drongle McMahon]
[12:06]	Vincent Nacon	will rigging be disabled till that's fixed at the release?
[12:07]	Drongle McMahon	Oh that was a week ago...
[12:07]	Vincent Nacon	so it doesn't confuse people with techical issue
[12:07]	Drongle McMahon	...might have changed already.
[12:07]	Prep Linden	vincent: no, for the initial release translation of bones will be allowed.
[12:07]	Nyx Linden	Drongle - please retest once we get the new upload pipeline. We hope we've fixed it
[12:08]	Drongle McMahon	ok
[12:08]	Vir Linden	Is there a CTS for the greyed out upload issue?
[12:08]	Vincent Nacon	alright, might be bad idea to release something that doesn't work clearly yet
[12:08]	Rusalka Writer	Never stopped a release in the history of computers.
[12:09]	Latif Khalifa	lol
[12:09]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	heh
[12:09]	Drongle McMahon	I didn't do one in case it was intentional
[12:09]	Charlar Linden	next:
[12:09]	Charlar Linden	Will the mesh beta regions remain after release? If not, at which stage will they disappear? If so, for how long? [Drongle]
[12:10]	Drongle McMahon	I'll test again and jira if necessary
[12:10]	Charlar Linden	yes, they will remain, as a sandbox, and all of the beta grid will be 'mesh enabled' once we start the rollout on Agni.
[12:10]	Nyx Linden	keep in mind that once mesh is rolled out, all regions on aditi will be mesh-enabled, so you'll be able to test uploads on all beta grid regions :)
[12:10]	Charlar Linden	how long they're remain is a good question. Not forever, but at least for the immediate future
[12:10]	Drongle McMahon	:-)
[12:10]	Vir Linden	drongle - thanks
[12:11]	Vincent Nacon	they have to pay for the power to keep it runing
[12:11]	Vincent Nacon	running*
[12:11]	Rusalka Writer	I like it. Will we still have the magic free upload?
[12:11]	Nyx Linden	no, but beta grid dollars are fake dollars :)
[12:11]	Rusalka Writer	Okay. Still curious to see the costs.
[12:12]	Charlar Linden	OK, then next:
[12:12]	Charlar Linden	Ensure physics type stays consistent between rezzes. Some meshes default to Convex Hull (even with a physics shape) when spawned by an object.
[12:12]	Nyx Linden	we already have a couple bugs filed for this I believe
[12:12]	Rusalka Writer	Out objects are spawning now?
[12:12]	Rusalka Writer	Our
[12:13]	Nyx Linden	its on our list to look at before release, hopefully\
[12:13]	Zeus Ravenheart	llrezObjerct Ithink means
[12:13]	Nyx Linden	some similar behavior if you drag-copy an item I think
[12:14]	Nyx Linden	I'll add it to the test case
[12:14]	Charlar Linden	next:
[12:14]	Charlar Linden	When creating a partially-rigged mesh (ie: a shirt), how much of the skeleton rig is required in the dae? The whole thing? The relevant bones only? Everything from the hip up through the relevant bones? [bloodsong]
[12:14]	Prep Linden	The source joint array (inside the library_controllers node w/in your dae) needs to contain the complete SL joint list. That joint list is posted in the forums, as well as a number of public jiras.
[12:14]	Prep Linden	When you create your rigged asset (e.g. shirt, not a FULL av replacement) the visual scene that is generated (inside your dae) will contain a *subset* of the above joint array - this is considered a partial rigged attachment in comparison to a complete avatar replacement which contains all of the joints from the above list.
[12:14]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	Even if the joints aren't offset?
[12:15]	Prep Linden	No this is for joint offsets.
[12:15]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	Ok just making sure
[12:16]	Charlar Linden	next:
[12:16]	Charlar Linden	If two rigged meshes are worn and both have custom bone length/positions, which settings will be used? [bloodsong]
[12:17]	Prep Linden	bloodsong: yup, if you want to open up a jira and I'll work through this with you. Just make sure to attach or email me the asset.
[12:17]	Prep Linden	bloodsong: I'll slide this in late or early next week.
[12:18]	Gaia Clary	maybe cts-608 is related...
[12:18]	Prep Linden	bloodsong: np.
[12:18]	Prep Linden	gaia: thanks
[12:19]	Prep Linden	gaia: will look into that.
[12:19]	Charlar Linden	next:
[12:19]	Gaia Clary	i am very curious about the results
[12:19]	Charlar Linden	very strange behaviour on Mesh sandbox 20: new uploaded mesh rezzes as flat disc. sculpties do not rezz. Is that a known bug ? [Gaia Clary]
[12:20]	Nyx Linden	sandbox 20 is being used to help test the new upload pipeline, so unless you're using the new asset format viewer there will be some odd effects
[12:20]	Nyx Linden	once we've fully rolled out the new pipe/asset format for both viewer and simulator, if this continues to be broken, let us know
[12:20]	Gaia Clary	i have this one: Second Life 2.7.1 (232042) Jun 6 2011 01:10:07 (Project Viewer - Mesh)
[12:20]	summse Sands	aaah
[12:20]	Gaia Clary	ok
[12:21]	Charlar Linden	Next:
[12:21]	Charlar Linden	Will fractional prim costs be used to calculate the total prim usage on a land (can there be actually more than 15000 prims on a sim ?) or will we always have to pay an integer number of prims regardless of the fractional cost ? [Gaia Clary]
[12:21]	Zeus Ravenheart	ohh good one
[12:22]	davep (runitai.linden)	We take the sum of fractional costs for the link set and then round up. You can definitely get more than 15000 objects (I put down 24000 spheres recently for testing) on the sim if you use the proper shapes, but we'll soon be introducing a "streaming cost" equivalent for prims to counter-act the increased triangle cost. Some prims will cost more than 1 streaming cost, some will cost less than 1. "Streaming cost" is now a misnomer -- its function now is to limit the number of visible triangles, so it's more of a simplified render cost.
[12:23]	Drongle McMahon	rounded at linkset level, isn't it? could be problems when peopl;e unlink.
[12:23]	Zeus Ravenheart	wait so , a prim, may cost more or less than a prim?!
[12:23]	davep (runitai.linden)	yes, you could get objects returned when you unlink
[12:23]	Latif Khalifa	So you can have existing parcels suddely run out of free prims?
[12:24]	davep (runitai.linden)	Zeus: once you "opt-in" to the new accounting by using a physics shape or a mesh in the link set, yes
[12:24]	Failed Inventor	so if I linked 100 prims together.. and you could only see one.. then the cost would be 1 prim?
[12:24]	Rusalka Writer	Ow.
[12:24]	davep (runitai.linden)	Latif: no, existing costs won't change
[12:24]	Zeus Ravenheart	ahh okat thnx
[12:24]	Latif Khalifa	ah, so only if you change physical properties
[12:25]	davep (runitai.linden)	one prim is one prim until you introduce a physics shape type other than prim or a mesh to the link set
[12:25]	Nyx Linden	costs for objects will only use the advanced properties if you link to a mesh or use the new physics shape types
[12:25]	Latif Khalifa	got it
[12:25]	davep (runitai.linden)	(all about preserving legacy behavior)
[12:25]	Drongle McMahon	So far it's 0.5 per linked object minimum. No?
[12:25]	Latif Khalifa	well having unchanged parcels suddenly have fewer free prims would be bad xD
[12:26]	Nyx Linden	we're still adjusting the formulas an minimums :)
[12:26]	davep (runitai.linden)	Drongle: that's what I've been seeing, yes
[12:26]	davep (runitai.linden)	Latif: agreed, we're protecting against that
[12:26]	Zeus Ravenheart	but suddojnly having more would be good hehe
[12:27]	Drongle McMahon	What about linking a physics shape to a sculpty ... now it males it 0.5 prims!
[12:27]	Failed Inventor	So with the release of mesh on public sometime in july.. which is give or take 30 days.... away.. how soon will we know even ball park costs for prim vers poly.
[12:27]	davep (runitai.linden)	Drongle: not any more -- there's a streaming cost equivalent for prims that just got introduced (not deployed yet)
[12:28]	Nyx Linden	Failed: that question is a couple of topics down :)
[12:28]	Drongle McMahon	haha ... I thoughtb there cwould be.
[12:28]	davep (runitai.linden)	Drongle: you can see it in the "show render info" display
[12:28]	Vivienne Daguerre	drat
[12:28]	Rusalka Writer	Will jewelry get really expensive, pretty-please?
[12:28]	davep (runitai.linden)	of course, this function will likely change 5 times before we're done
[12:29]	davep (runitai.linden)	so "show render info" will often disagree with the build tools and vice versa -- build tools are authoritative
[12:29]	Drongle McMahon	As long as you don't mean 5x the costs!
[12:29]	Failed Inventor	haha ok Nyx, ( I get... anxious about the topic ause hard to start making products until I know cots).
[12:29]	Zeus Ravenheart	not sure if theres much point in nanomeshes...
[12:29]	davep (runitai.linden)	Drongle: hehe, depends on the object
[12:29]	davep (runitai.linden)	let's keep moving
[12:29]	Charlar Linden	OK, moving on...next: Not a mesh issue per se, but (IMHO) very related: Have you ever thought of also introducing fractional costs for sculpties with small sculptmaps ? e.g. make a sculpty made of 4*4 faces significantly cheaper than a sculpty of 32*32 faces ?
[12:30]	Charlar Linden	No, but thanks for the suggestion.
[12:30]	Failed Inventor	lol
[12:30]	Vincent Nacon	4x4? what good will that do?
[12:30]	Drongle McMahon	Yes ... now that they work.
[12:30]	Charlar Linden	ok, next:
[12:30]	Charlar Linden	Costs display: Even with the hover text it is not clear to me how much my prim actually costs. is it always the "cost:prims", or always the higher one of "cost:prims" and "cost:physics complexity" ? [Gaia Clary]
[12:30]	Nyx Linden	we're going to have a new layout for the build tools merging in in the next couple of days. The build tools should be the "reliable" source of information of what we believe the costs will be. However, if you're asking when we believe the numbers will be "finalized", we're going to be tweaking them for a while yet :)
[12:31]	Gaia Clary	no i was just asking to clarify what the numbers realy maen. itsy ok...
[12:31]	Vincent Nacon	don't change too much
[12:31]	Charlar Linden	oops, missed #11 -- (When...) can we expect to see a reliable prim-cost display in the object editor ? [Gaia Clary]
[12:31]	Gaia Clary	see also cts-611 ;-)
[12:31]	Nyx Linden	Gaia: yep, that's why we're trying to clarify that :)
[12:31]	Nyx Linden	same answer for 11 and 12 I think :)
[12:32]	Gaia Clary	ok, so lets wait for the new GUI ;_)
[12:32]	Nyx Linden	I'll take a look at CTS-611. hopefully the new layout is a bit clearer
[12:32]	Jira Helper	[#CTS-611] primcost display could be made more intuitive ... https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-611
[12:32]	Charlar Linden	Ok, next: Do you plan to add a generic import tool for ALL sorts of prims(regular prims,sculptes,meshes) similar to what is used e.g. by Phoenix as backup solution for regular prims and sculpties at the moment ? [Gaia Clary]
[12:32]	Failed Inventor	will this new ... change in a couple of days.. effect the 3 + 3 + 3 = 5 effect you get ?
[12:33]	Charlar Linden	We do not plan on that, ever.
[12:33]	Gaia Clary	good for us ;-)
[12:33]	Aki (aki.shichiroji)	as an aside, i would love a prim exporter to .obj
[12:33]	Failed Inventor	cause arton was showing me a mesh with cost of 3 but when linked together it with another which is 3... same one actually it equalled 4
[12:33]	summse Sands	good idea
[12:33]	Failed Inventor	and then add anohter it only - 5
[12:33]	Nyx Linden	Failed: possibly, if you select specific parts of a linkset
[12:33]	summse Sands	importer for .obj
[12:33]	Failed Inventor	so some how 3 + 3 + 3 = 5
[12:33]	Charlar Linden	next: If some third party would provide such an import tool for regular prims, sculpties and meshes, would that tool fall under the category "third party viewer" even if it has no graphical interface (no 3D viewer) ? [Gaia Clary]
[12:34]	Charlar Linden	yes, it does fall under our policies for TPV
[12:34]	Gaia Clary	ok
[12:34]	Charlar Linden	next:
[12:34]	Charlar Linden	I'm trying to upload a model with 17968 tri and 13292 verts. The auto generated medium LOD counts 5988 tris and 5700 verts. I made a medium LOD with 2762 tris and 4853 verts, less than the auto generated LOD, but the uploader says "Level of details has too many vertices". It seems this message needs to contain some more information. [Mikki Miles]
[12:35]	Drongle McMahon	Sounds like an old viewer?
[12:35]	Mikki Miles	232004
[12:35]	Mikki Miles	not that old
[12:36]	Drongle McMahon	! ok (blush)
[12:36]	davep (runitai.linden)	sounds like a bug, but could be that the number of vertices is actually higher or equal for one particular submesh
[12:36]	Mikki Miles	ok
[12:36]	Vincent Nacon	made sure of no floating vertices?
[12:36]	davep (runitai.linden)	if you could make a jira and attach the .dae files, that would be helpful
[12:36]	Vir Linden	unfortunately LOD generation is non-deterministic, so it can vary from one try to another
[12:36]	Mikki Miles	so I have to look into submeshes, too?
[12:37]	davep (runitai.linden)	yes -- if you give me the .dae files, I can make the importer more helpful on highlighting the problem areas
[12:37]	Mikki Miles	no floating verts, no doubles
[12:38]	Vincent Nacon	((welcome Falcon, btw))
[12:38]	davep (runitai.linden)	Mikki: also, if you left the low and lowest filled in, it might be complaining that they have more triangles than the new medium lod
[12:38]	Falcon Linden	Thanks for the welcome!
[12:38]	davep (runitai.linden)	you can "none" them out
[12:39]	Mikki Miles	ok, I'll try that
[12:39]	Charlar Linden	next:
[12:39]	Charlar Linden	developer-> render metadata-> render physic costs turns my viewer window black and I can't see any physic shapes. [Mikki Miles]
[12:39]	arton Rotaru	mine too
[12:39]	Charlar Linden	This is a known bug
[12:39]	Nyx Linden	happens on my machine :/
[12:40]	arton Rotaru	It's marked as Released
[12:40]	Dahlia Trimble	sorry if this was answered before, but any word on nerw asset format?
[12:40]	arton Rotaru	Fixed
[12:40]	davep (runitai.linden)	got the jira number handy?
[12:40]	Dahlia Trimble	*new
[12:40]	Nyx Linden	working on it Dahlia - we're going to post to the forums when its ready
[12:40]	arton Rotaru	there already a new one I think
[12:40]	Dahlia Trimble	ty
[12:41]	Failed Inventor	I have another question may seems... trivial but.. will shadows be released along with mesh...
[12:41]	Failed Inventor	sorry haha
[12:41]	davep (runitai.linden)	Failed: shadows are going to be released next release
[12:41]	davep (runitai.linden)	(before mesh)
[12:41]	arton Rotaru	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/CTS-606
[12:41]	Failed Inventor	oh even better :)
[12:41]	Eleanora Newell	dahlia must be out of range, what was that in answer to, nyx?
[12:41]	Nyx Linden	Elanora - she asked about the new asset format
[12:42]	Charlar Linden	next: Can you give us an estimate of when we will get a viewer to upload new mesh format? [Drongle]
[12:42]	Nyx Linden	soon!
[12:42]	Nyx Linden	watch the forums!
[12:42]	Latif Khalifa	lol
[12:42]	Nyx Linden	we hope this week
[12:42]	Nyx Linden	*hope*
[12:42]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	\o/
[12:42]	Falcon Linden	But maybe not...depends on how much we want to confuse you :)
[12:42]	davep (runitai.linden)	/me raises an eyebrow at Nyx.
[12:42]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	Sweet
[12:42]	Charlar Linden	alrighty
[12:43]	Υπατία Καλλιστώ (hypatia.callisto)	haha
[12:43]	Vincent Nacon	confuse to the max
[12:43]	Charlar Linden	ok, next item?
[12:43]	Eleanora Newell	lol, falcon, you mean confuse us more?
[12:43]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	yes please
[12:43]	Charlar Linden	What is "PRIM TEST 11.05.23.230743" on Mesh City 2 and why can't it upload mesh? [Drongle]
[12:43]	Charlar Linden	I don't understand this question
[12:44]	Latif Khalifa	sim version
[12:44]	Drongle McMahon	? It's ther server on MC2
[12:44]	Drongle McMahon	According to Help About
[12:44]	Falcon Linden	It's a simulator that we're currently testing that will use the new uploader
[12:45]	Drongle McMahon	Another one! ok.
[12:45]	davep (runitai.linden)	looks like the new streaming cost is on the wiki page
[12:45]	davep (runitai.linden)	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/Mesh_Streaming_Cost
[12:45]	Charlar Linden	next one -- already responded to:
[12:45]	Charlar Linden	Is there a change increasing streaming cost calculation in Mesh Import 11.06.02.231785, and can we have the details? [Drongle]
[12:45]	Charlar Linden	Davep is quick!
[12:46]	davep (runitai.linden)	(sorry, started answering the next question)
[12:46]	davep (runitai.linden)	but again, this will change 5 times before we're done
[12:46]	davep (runitai.linden)	I'll try to keep that page updated with the pending implementations
[12:46]	Latif Khalifa	that page is from march
[12:46]	Nyx Linden	going to have Jeremy helping us document our cost algorithms
[12:46]	Vincent Nacon	"make up your mind, yo!"
[12:47]	Drongle McMahon	That's old. Hasn't changed since March.
[12:47]	davep (runitai.linden)	Latif: yes, the streaming cost hasn't changed since we started working on finalizing the format
[12:47]	Nyx Linden	we're working on getting the algorithms implemented before documenting them too closely, so we'll keep you in the loop :)
[12:47]	davep (runitai.linden)	(further streaming cost work is blocked on making test scenes, making test scenes is blocked on finalizing format)
[12:47]	Falcon Linden	The decomposition should work fine with shapes that contain openings. It should only try to close holes if you select that checkbox. I'm guessing the problem you're hitting is that when you simplify you need to set a very small "detail scale" value to preserve holes
[12:47]	Vincent Nacon	how's the compression rate so far?
[12:47]	davep (runitai.linden)	10 bytes per triangle
[12:47]	Drongle McMahon	But the cost reported in the edit dialog have changed.
[12:47]	Charlar Linden	next item (beacause Falcon already responded to it)
[12:47]	Charlar Linden	I made a physics shape for an arch that has an opening. If I pick analyze in the uploader, it closes the hole. Should we not try to decompose shapes with openings? [Ashasekayi Ra]
[12:47]	davep (runitai.linden)	(on average)
[12:48]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	Ah ok Falcon, I'll try that.
[12:49]	Drongle McMahon	That's the viewer code. Any chance of seeing what the server calculates?
[12:49]	Nyx Linden	Drongle - we'll post documentation
[12:49]	Nyx Linden	give us some time to get things implemented first :)
[12:49]	Charlar Linden	next:
[12:49]	Charlar Linden	With the announcement of mesh on SL grid coming at such a quick date, is there any documentation yet? [Eleanora Newell]
[12:50]	Drongle McMahon	I want to make new graphs :-(
[12:50]	And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith)	what, cant post the documentation before your develop the stuff?
[12:50]	And all i got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith)	:P
[12:50]	davep (runitai.linden)	Drongle: we just use the viewer for testing/analysis and then copy/paste the viewer implementation to the server
[12:50]	Nyx Linden	we're going to be updating the documentation on the main wiki page
[12:50]	Nyx Linden	we have Jeremy helping out with our documentation effort - so keep your eyes peeled :)
[12:51]	Drongle McMahon	Oh ... but it changed .... puzzled
[12:51]	Rusalka Writer	How about intellectual property, the avatar armature, and the invisible Linden Lawyers?
[12:51]	Charlar Linden	next:
[12:51]	Charlar Linden	is there a list of Sims which will receive first customer roll outs ? Can we get on this list with one sim ? [gaia]
[12:51]	Vivienne Daguerre	ooo good one
[12:52]	Nyx Linden	Rusaika - please start a topic in the forums for what documentation you want to see and I'll make sure Jeremy sees it
[12:52]	davep (runitai.linden)	Drongle: we don't always get it right in the copy/paste :-p
[12:52]	Rusalka Writer	Jeremy, right.
[12:52]	Drongle McMahon	Yeah. Then there's the radius :-)
[12:52]	davep (runitai.linden)	Drongle: if you want to make some graphs, graphing the prim streaming cost equivalent might be fun
[12:52]	Falcon Linden	We can't say for sure how we're going to do this rollout, but i general if your region is on the list to receive RCs (Release Candidates) it will generally get releases before the rest of the grid
[12:52]	Falcon Linden	Though those candidates may have bugs
[12:53]	Vivienne Daguerre	how can I get my two sims on that list?
[12:53]	Gaia Clary	so how can we get on that list please ?
[12:53]	Falcon Linden	If you're interested, you should contact Oskar Linden, I believe
[12:53]	Gaia Clary	ok
[12:53]	Charlar Linden	next:
[12:53]	Falcon Linden	or support
[12:53]	Charlar Linden	Can we haz a Streaming costs for Dummies! edition of that wiki page please? [Eleanora Newell]
[12:53]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	lol
[12:53]	Nyx Linden	we're implementing our cost algorithms, then we're going to document them. We're trying to stay as up to date as possible
[12:54]	Charlar Linden	but there will be a neccessary delay
[12:54]	Latif Khalifa	having a public deadline must be fun for you guys :P
[12:54]	Gaia Clary	is there already a guideline about how to optimize a mesh ?
[12:54]	Nyx Linden	one of the documentation goals is to introduce how to optimize your content
[12:54]	Gaia Clary	in the wiki ?
[12:54]	Nyx Linden	working on it, keep an eye on wiki updates
[12:54]	Rusalka Writer	They didn't say what day in July, did they? It might be July 257th.
[12:54]	Eleanora Newell	k
[12:54]	Drongle McMahon	4th?
[12:55]	Gaia Clary	nyx, i am preparing a tutorial about that right now... maybe that would fit into the documentation ...
[12:55]	davep (runitai.linden)	july SLT -- we might introduce some time dilation
[12:55]	Nyx Linden	assistance with docs is always appreciated :)
[12:55]	Rusalka Writer	Groovy.
[12:55]	Latif Khalifa	Rusalka, yeah, xmpp group chat was like that, going to be released january 834, 2011 :P
[12:55]	Charlar Linden	And on that note...
[12:55]	Gaia Clary	nyx, whom should i contact ?
[12:55]	Nyx Linden	myself please :)
[12:56]	Charlar Linden	we've covered all the agenda items - and there were a lot, thanks.
[12:56]	Gaia Clary	how can i contact you ;-)
[12:56]	Rusalka Writer	New OSX in July, too.
[12:56]	Nyx Linden	nyx@lindenlab.com or the forums
[12:56]	Gaia Clary	thanks!
[12:56]	Charlar Linden	Thanks all!
[12:56]	Abel Dreamscape	i have a question for Falcon If i may..............Why are you armed at an HO meeting?
[12:56]	Nyx Linden	think we set a new topic speed record this week!
[12:56]	Latif Khalifa	He knew I was coming :P
[12:57]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	Thanks for the meeting Lindens
[12:57]	Falcon Linden	Because I fear retribution for "feature enhancements" I may create.
[12:57]	Nyx Linden	Abel - are you assuming the rest of us aren't armed?
[12:57]	Rex Cronon	he is afraid of meshes;)
[12:57]	Aki (aki.shichiroji)	Thanks for the meeting :)
[12:57]	summse Sands	loool
[12:57]	Drongle McMahon	Oh yes, Falcon, how is the falcon av competition?
[12:57]	Abel Dreamscape	haa, i guess i was
[12:57]	Charlar Linden	That's all folks!
[12:57]	Latif Khalifa	did you see prim demonstrations against the mesh :P http://i.imgur.com/NWRva.jpg
[12:57]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	lmao
[12:57]	Latif Khalifa	poor little prims are afraid :P
[12:57]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	oh good grief
[12:58]	Nyx Linden	yeah saw that image earlier today :)
[12:58]	Falcon Linden	that's awesome
[12:58]	Rex Cronon	tc all*
[12:58]	Charlar Linden	sadly there is no falcon av competition. He'll have to appeal for charity
[12:58]	Rusalka Writer	They protest too much...
[12:58]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	Later Rex
[12:58]	Rusalka Writer	Aloha!
[12:58]	LSL Scientist	those lil prims been smoking herb, can see it from their eyes
[12:58]	Zeus Ravenheart	shh dont tell them they ARE meshes...
[12:58]	Falcon Linden	I am open to charity, though
[12:58]	Falcon Linden	:)
[12:58]	Aki (aki.shichiroji)	back to the mines for me. Have a nice week all.
[12:59]	Asha (ashasekayi.ra)	Bye Aki
[12:59]	Abel Dreamscape	and as i am late i will be most greatful if you can answer one quick question with a yes or no......
[13:00]	Abel Dreamscape	its been months since i kept up on mesh.......my old models are not rendering anymore, has the 8 submesh issue been implemented ?

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