Mesh/Archive/2011-09-26

Agenda

1. How far is the progress to fully support collada 1.4.1 ? I only use the official v3, but my meshes exported from 3dsMax2012 make problems (uploader shows higher triangle-count than the model has, texures (different faces/material IDs) is not working. (Marielle Caerndow)
2. I still can't upload my Collada file which have single texture. and CTS-813 is gone. I modifyed my node-ID but I can't upload it. I use viewer 3.0.6(241391) [Yuzuru Jewell]
3. Will autoreturn ever be switched back on on the Aditi mesh sandboxes? [Drongle]
4. Is anything exciting happening? [Drongle]
5. The rigged mesh is shown as a huge ball by 1.X viewer. Please make it small to the size of Avatar The issue is not viewer but SIM server. Otherwise, the landowner of Viewer1.X will BAN Avatar which wore the rigged mesh. [Yuzuru Jewell]
6. SH-2374 (Rigged Mesh Deformer) has been deferred from Sprint 28 to "Someday/Maybe". Could you give us the overall priority/status of making attached mesh conform to all avatar appearance sliders? If making attachments fit is being addressed some other way, please point us to where [DanielRavenNest Noe]

Meeting Notes

(sorry, wikify didn't like this chat log for some reason, I'm pasting it in it's raw format)

[11:59] Motor Loon: ey prep
[12:00] Squirrel Wood: Hellol!
[12:00] Prep Linden: yoyo folks!
[12:00] Motor Loon: nice axe man
[12:00] Squirrel Wood: I hope you don't mind my little rock there attending today :)
[12:00] Eleanora Newell: hi, yuzuru
[12:01] Yuzuru: Thank you! Eleanora!
[12:01] Eleanora Newell: yw
[12:01] Motor Loon: You need some of my moms homecookin' Runitai... you're nothing but bones man
[12:01] Yuzuru: And Thank you Drongle!
[12:02] Yuzuru: I tried to teleport MeshHQ 2. But I couldn't..
[12:02] Motor Loon: well, I got coffee, coke, smokes and good mood... all set to rock'n'roll
[12:02] Yuzuru: Hello Runitai.
[12:02] Yuzuru: I still can't upload meshes..
[12:03] Motor Loon: This IS meshHQ 2 Yuzuru
[12:03] Yuzuru: Yes.
[12:03] Yuzuru: I wonder why I can't teleport.
[12:03] Nal: IS HQ 1 off line?
[12:04] Motor Loon: use the force luke...
[12:04] Motor Loon: Must be the hat
[12:04] davep: killing a couple sandboxes to get the meshhq regions back up
[12:04] davep: ran out of spares on DRTSIM-99
[12:04] Nal: Oh this is funny. first time I've used a non-mesh viewer in awhile. :)
[12:05] Motor Loon: aint pretty eh
[12:05] Marielle CaerndowMarielle Caerndow waves
[12:05] Prep Linden: Ok here we go:
[12:05] Prep Linden: How far is the progress to fully support collada 1.4.1 ? I only use the official v3, but my meshes exported from 

3dsMax2012 make problems (uploader shows higher triangle-count than the model has, texures (different faces/material IDs) is not 

working. (Marielle Caerndow)
[12:06] Prep Linden: Collada 1.4.1 support has been added. If you want to test the latest mesh-dev has collada 1.4.1 support.
[12:06] Vincent Nacon: what... no news?
[12:06] Motor Loon: My Collada 1.4.1. works just fine
[12:06] Marielle Caerndow: Thank you Prep, just had issues with the 'official' v3...will test it
[12:06] Prep Linden: Yeah - most people aren't having trouble *execpt* wrt to the latest version of blender and rigs.
[12:07] Prep Linden: mariella: if you find any issues please filea jira ;-)
[12:07] Marielle Caerndow: Ah: "Rigs"...how are they currently working: does the *.dae need the full set of bones in it ?
[12:07] Marielle Caerndow: Yes, I'll nag you if I find issues :-)
[12:08] Squirrel Wood: I wonder if http://www.daz3d.com/i/shop/itemdetails/?item=5748 would work in SL ...
[12:08] Prep Linden: squirrel: buy it and let us know!
[12:08] Squirrel Wood: I might actually do that
[12:08] Motor Loon: its doubtful
[12:08] Squirrel Wood: but it seems to use displacement maps
[12:09] Motor Loon: yeah, and probably insane high polycount
[12:09] Vincent Nacon: no it won't work
[12:09] Vincent Nacon: it got fur
[12:09] Vincent Nacon: and I don't mean the tail
[12:09] Squirrel Wood: polycount is not an issue :)
[12:09] Motor Loon: polycount is always an issue
[12:09] Vincent Nacon: and it's not polygons
[12:09] Prep Linden: ok moving onto #2.
[12:09] Prep Linden: I still can't upload my Collada file which have single texture. and CTS-813 is gone. I modifyed my node-ID but I 

can't upload it. I use viewer 3.0.6(241391) [Yuzuru Jewell]
[12:11] Yuzuru: When I selected medium LOD, upload button was unenabled.
[12:11] Prep Linden: Yuzuru: The original reason it got disabled was because the lod introduced a new material that was not in the 

reference model.
[12:12] Prep Linden: The SL log probably had a error/warning in it denoting the problem.
[12:12] Yuzuru: I use same material.
[12:12] Yuzuru: I have no error/warning.
[12:13] Yuzuru: Ship it was checked.
[12:13] Prep Linden: Hmm... is it the same asset as the one thats attached to the jira?
[12:13] Yuzuru: yes CTS-183
[12:13] Yuzuru: But I can't access it.
[12:14] Prep Linden: sh-2468
[12:14] Yuzuru: Yes But I can't accsess SH-2468.
[12:15] Drongle McMahon: As usual :-)
[12:15] Motor Loon: Ditto
[12:15] Prep Linden: yuzuru: hold on - reproing it and gonna give you the error..
[12:16] Yuzuru: Thank you. I will update my tools from it.
[12:16] Prep Linden: yuzuru: I'm still getting a "Material of model is not a subset of reference." from the helmet assets.
[12:16] Prep Linden: So probably the name is different in the medium lod.
[12:16] Yuzuru: Oh!
[12:16] Yuzuru: Yes
[12:17] Prep Linden: cool, moving on..
[12:17] Drongle McMahon: Thae material name? I thought that didn't matter.
[12:17] Yuzuru: When I check it, I can update it.
[12:17] Yuzuru: Thank you.
[12:17] Prep Linden: #3. Will autoreturn ever be switched back on on the Aditi mesh sandboxes? [Drongle]
[12:17] davep: 3. Will autoreturn ever be switched back on on the Aditi mesh sandboxes? [Drongle]
[12:17] davep: autoreturn is off?
[12:17] davep: that explains a lot
[12:17] davepdavep will get on that this afternoon.
[12:17] Drongle McMahon: :-)
[12:18] Motor Loon: haha
[12:18] Vincent NaconVincent Nacon shakes his head.
[12:18] Asha: \o/
[12:18] Prep Linden: #4.) Is anything exciting happening? [Drongle]
[12:18] Motor Loon: good one
[12:18] davep: SH-2240 is kinda exciting
[12:18] Motor Loon: "As OpenGL, I want applications to not use the fixed function, because it is deprecated."
[12:18] Squirrel Wood: exciting? How about sims not finishing the calculation of a high detail physics shape ?
[12:18] Mikki Miles: yeah, and autoreturn will be switched on
[12:18] Asha: What is 2240 about?
[12:19] davep: in that comptability-with-new-spec-version kind of excitement
[12:19] Squirrel Wood: 2240.. opengl 3.0 :)
[12:19] Motor Loon: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/sh-2240
[12:19] davep: GL 3.2 actually
[12:19] Skygirl Kline: less crashy moments
[12:19] Squirrel Wood: or 3.2
[12:19] davep: now with vertex array objects!
[12:20] Drongle McMahon: Is 2240 wht I can't use the new project mesh viewers with nvidia 440?
[12:20] Motor Loon: I dont recall having seen such glitches
[12:20] Motor Loon: ..on my system atleast
[12:20] davep: vao off -- 24 fps, vao on -- 30 fps
[12:21] Squirrel Wood: shadows on - out of memory :p
[12:21] davep: awww
[12:21] Vincent Nacon: upgrade your PC?
[12:22] davep: the memory stuff is pretty fresh -- I get that message even though I have 16GB of ram
[12:22] Vincent Nacon: n/m
[12:22] Vincent Nacon: muhahahaha!
[12:22] Squirrel Wood: Where should I upgrade? CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU X 980 @ 3.33GHz (3337.54 MHz)
Memory: 12280 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 7 64-bit Service Pack 1 (Build 7601)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 480/PCI/SSE2
[12:22] Motor Loon: Probably too upgraded °?°
[12:23] Squirrel Wood: W7 x64 in general tends to see that error quite often
[12:23] Motor Loon: Too much bling makes you blind ... haha...
[12:23] davep: you can try turning off private memory pool management
[12:23] davep: "MemoryPrivatePoolEnabled"
[12:23] Nal: http://blog.nalates.net/2011/08/07/nvidia-driver-gtx-460-problems/
[12:24] Motor Loon: yeah... gfxcard related
[12:24] Techwolf Lupindo: Get a 54-bit build.
[12:24] Nal: You may being seeing a regression error.
[12:24] Techwolf Lupindo: erf...64
[12:24] Squirrel Wood: current available mem: 4GB, current usable: 0 is what the console says
[12:24] Nal: Firestorm suggests changing the GPU table in a viewer to an older copy to avoid some GPU problems.
[12:24] davep: I've gotten mixed reports on 2240 fixing GTX 460 issues
[12:26] davep: there's still one GL 2.x API call lingering that NVIDIA's drivers don't error on but AMD's do
[12:27] Prep Linden: ok moving onto 5
[12:27] Prep Linden: 5.) The rigged mesh is shown as a huge ball by 1.X viewer. Please make it small to the size of Avatar The issue is 

not viewer but SIM server. Otherwise, the landowner of Viewer1.X will BAN Avatar which wore the rigged mesh. [Yuzuru Jewell]
[12:28] Vir Linden: That's not super likely to change, but if you want to file a JIRA at least we will have a mechanism for tracking.
[12:28] Squirrel Wood: I guess the prim drawn represents the size of the mesh
[12:28] Vir Linden: It's not part of the mesh release 2 work.
[12:28] Motor Loon: Cant fix stupid...
[12:28] Yuzuru: It is huge.
[12:29] Yuzuru: like 7m ball
[12:29] Asha: O.o
[12:29] Vincent Nacon: 7m? not big enough
[12:29] davep: it uses the scale on the prim
[12:29] Eleanora Newell: yeah, i don't understand why some things show a sphere many times larger than the mesh size
[12:29] davep: so you can scale the rigged attachment down before you attach it
[12:30] Asha: Oh I see
[12:30] Skygirl Kline: fix = use the new viewer
[12:30] Eleanora Newell: ah
[12:30] Asha: Some people must have a big scale in their modeler.
[12:30] Squirrel Wood: V1 viewers will slowly stop working anyway :)
[12:30] Motor Loon: not really
[12:30] Asha: I don't think most people know that effects the size of the model on v1 viewers though.
[12:31] Yuzuru: Please set small scale to samle rigged mesh, robot.
[12:31] Asha: *affects
[12:31] Yuzuru: It is important.
[12:32] davep: how do we know you don't want a 7m sphere? the scale of the object is 7m
[12:33] Yuzuru: When I set 1m scale, It was shown 1m sphere on 1.X viewer. Is it correct?
[12:33] davep: that *should* be correct, if it's not correct, that's a bug
[12:34] Yuzuru: Thank you. I will try it.
[12:34] Motor Loon: There was someone here on a non-mesh viewer right? - could verify it now
[12:35] Nal: That is me... I'm in multiple conversations. What do want looked at?
[12:36] Motor Loon: anyone here looking like they are a 7m big sphere? ,-)
[12:36] Motor Loon: You're all mesh arent you Prep?
[12:36] Nal: No... Prep is the oddest and biggest, may be 2 m
[12:36] Prep Linden: yup - mesh
[12:37] davep: how about now?
[12:37] Motor Loon: well, he is kinda a short guy
[12:37] Nal: Squirrel has a couple of .5 m spheres
[12:37] Motor Loon: and Runitai?
[12:37] Nal: The arn or moving thing is much bigger, 3 m may be
[12:38] Motor Loon: that would be Runitai I guess... haha... the moving thing
[12:38] Squirrel Wood: What about the rock ?
[12:38] Eleanora Newell: she won't know it's a rock
[12:38] Motor Loon: the rock is not a rigged mesh
[12:38] Drongle McMahon: It's an axe. I am scared of it.
[12:38] Nal: I'm not sure ehat is supposed to be a rock
[12:38] davep: am I still 3m?
[12:39] Eleanora Newell: run, why you jumping?
[12:39] Nal: In FS mesh stuff doesn't always show in a photo so I can't upload one
[12:39] Motor Loon: so she can see him
[12:39] Eleanora Newell: lol
[12:39] Motor Loon: Nalates... the jumping thingie... still same size as before?
[12:40] Motor LoonMotor Loon pokes Nalates
[12:40] davep: nal is a very busy person
[12:40] Motor Loon: Guess so °?°
[12:40] Asha: She's showing a pic.
[12:40] Motor Loon: Must be wierd being busy on the betagrid
[12:40] Nal: I think it disappeared.... looking for it
[12:41] Motor Loon: check the jumping Runitai Nalates...
[12:41] Motor Loon: same size as before?
[12:41] Nal: A tiny disk.... 0.3m
[12:41] Motor Loon: good
[12:41] Motor Loon: success then
[12:41] davep: hooray -- it works
[12:41] Motor Loon: problem solved ,-)
[12:42] Yuzuru: :D
[12:42] Motor Loon: How productive °?°
[12:42] Nal: :) I guess my SLV3 crashed for a reason...
[12:42] Asha: Good information to know about the sizing.
[12:42] Motor LoonMotor Loon think Runitai needs to rest his old bones after all that jumping around
[12:43] Yuzuru: Please write about it to wiki!
[12:43] Asha: Agreed
[12:43] davep: viewer 3 is having some weird issues right now -- certification problems with SSL, some multi-threading issues with 

thread local state not being initialized properly, and of course the GL compatibility issues
[12:43] davep: after the long haul for mesh, it's time for a nice quiet maintenance cycle
[12:44] Motor Loon: No rest for the wicked
[12:44] davep: no joke
[12:44] Vincent Nacon: and during those moment, residents should be ready to provide the next big feature, Avatar 2.0! :P
[12:44] Eleanora Newell: no rest at all? damn
[12:44] davep: https://bitbucket.org/davep/shining-fixes
[12:44] davepdavep is tired.
[12:44] Motor Loon: Rest is overrated anyway
[12:44] Yuzuru: The scale shoulde be written on marketplace..
[12:45] Eleanora Newell: wouldn't know since i haven't had any in years
[12:45] Motor Loon: I'd be happy if creators could just learn to put the real primcount on marketplace
[12:45] Asha: No kidding
[12:45] Motor Loon: Shameful how many meshs are sold with incorrect informations
[12:45] Vincent Nacon: still need people to talk about it on the wiki before making it as final for LL to look at. advert your eyes, 

Lindens! https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Avatar_2.0
[12:46] davep: yeah, I find myself wanting an LoD preview
[12:46] davep: I bought a gun for L$1000 and the LoD was terrible
[12:46] Nal: Well, may be the SLM team will include a place for prims, scripts, and Land IMpact cost for merchandise. That would get 

creators thinking.
[12:46] Asha: Showing LODS would be a nice addition.
[12:46] Yuzuru: where is the binary of the viewer shining fixed.
[12:46] Motor Loon: That too Runitai
[12:46] Eleanora Newell: actually, that would be great, runitai
[12:47] davep: http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/davep_shining-fixes/latest.html
[12:47] davep: probably easier to implement a "return for refund" feature
[12:47] Yuzuru: Thank you!
[12:47] davepdavep is just spitballing here.
[12:47] Motor Loon: °?°
[12:47] Motor Loon: Better education for creators is the key
[12:48] Motor Loon: I think most just dont know any better
[12:48] Vincent Nacon: or just waiting for Phoenix (1.23) to catch up
[12:50] Yuzuru: It is important to add elements about LOD and Land Impact and scale.
[12:50] Vincent Nacon: or just remove scale factor >_> *hint*
[12:51] Yuzuru: But customer can't check its scale.
[12:51] Motor Loon: only a problem if its a no-mod item
[12:52] Motor Loon: and only a problem viewer on old viewers
[12:52] Yuzuru: Yes
[12:52] Motor Loon: viewed
[12:52] Motor Loon: in time it will "fix" itself...
[12:52] Motor Loon: hopefully
[12:52] Vincent Nacon: by removing it
[12:52] Vincent Nacon: :P
[12:53] Motor Loon: non-mesh viewers should be gone with not too long
[12:53] Vincent Nacon: actually, it's the only way for contents with scripts.
[12:53] Nal: The SSE2 requirement is stopping old computer users from upgrading... :/
[12:53] Squirrel Wood: there are quite a few people that will hold on to v1 viewers for as long as possible because they do not want 

the v2 UI
[12:53] Yuzuru: If the light weight viewer will be released..
[12:53] Motor Loon: thats ok too, aslong as it has mesh backporting
[12:54] Vincent Nacon: stopping from upgrading?
[12:54] Motor Loon: Phoenix will soon too
[12:54] Techwolf LupindoTechwolf Lupindo lol at this changeset https://bitbucket.org/davep/shining-fixes/changeset/7dd3fe1dc666
[12:54] Squirrel Wood: SSE2 was introduced around the year 2k. no reason to still have such stoneaged computers around
[12:54] davep: SL is global, so there ARE some markets that still have a lot of old computers
[12:54] Vincent Nacon: those who don't have SSE2 are seriously out of date
[12:55] Vincent Nacon: it doesn't need another 10 more years
[12:55] Yuzuru: But SSE2 is not useful on 64bit.
[12:55] Nal: Agreed Squirrel, but there are people not upgrading computers... I hate to leave them behind, BUT I see no other choice.
[12:55] davep: but it's just not practical to impede performance on the vast majority because of hardware that is way past its warranty
[12:55] Vincent Nacon: once again, it doesn't need 10 more years
[12:55] Eleanora Newell: i have to leave, but ty, prep and runitai, see everyone later :)
[12:55] Asha: Bye Eleanora.
[12:55] Vir Linden: We try to be very conservative about increasing system requirements, but can't postpone changes forever.
[12:55] Vincent NaconVincent Nacon waves
[12:55] Skygirl Kline: bye
[12:55] Eleanora Newell: bye, asha
[12:56] Eleanora Newell: *waves*
[12:56] Motor Loon: Nor should you Vir
[12:56] Techwolf Lupindo: Make it optional. There is no need for hardcoded flags in the code. Let the build envoroment set the flags.
[12:56] Yuzuru: suere
[12:56] Yuzuru: sure
[12:57] Vincent Nacon: Tech, it isn't that simple to make it optional
[12:58] Techwolf Lupindo: Software that supports sse2 and beyound use .dll to enable it. I"ve seen several packages where it detects 

the CPU at runtime and enables or disables parts of the code.
[12:58] davep: techwolf: we'd have to ship two different versions of each viewer -- SSE enabled and not SSE enabled
[12:58] Techwolf Lupindo: mplayer is one of them.