Mesh/Archive/2012-09-10

Agenda

1. Given that the jira is no longer going to be an effective means of accurate two-way exchange of information, how can we communicate with other users about problems with the content creation processes and their solutions, especially in the context of this user group where the commonest question is "can you give me the jira for that issue"? Drongle McMahon
2. Update on server side texture baking and a request Nyx Linden 08:54, 10 September 2012 (PDT)
3. After spending days on a project, I found that a custom physics shape only kicks in after 0.500m, below that it boxes up. On a prim it boxes up under 0.065. Is there is a reason for this? And will this remain at such a large size for a custom form for the future? Obviously this causes issues and inhibits smaller scale builds when smaller and more accurate physics are required. Sheena Kamala
4. Lots of landowners are turning pathfinding off on their sims, claiming a significant performance hit with pathfinding enabled. I did not see this effect in my own experiments. I wonder what other people are finding. Poppet McGimsie
5. Status of Deformer, custom riggs, and so on... [Davido Chrome]
6. When can we expect this Jira to be fixed/released ? https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-29183 [Gaia Clary]

Meeting Notes

Attendees List

• Abel Dreamscape (abel.dreamscape)
• Alexa Linden (alexa.linden)
• √ÑlveKatt (davido.chrome)
• Djehan Kidd (djehan.kidd)
• Gaia Clary (gaia.clary)
• Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad)
• awesome (jana.drezelan)
• Kennylex Luckless (kennylex.luckless)
• Motor Loon (motor.loon) (User's Wiki Page)
• Nal (nalates.urriah)
• Nyx Linden (nyx.linden) (User's Wiki Page)
• Oz Linden (oz.linden) (User's Wiki Page)
• Poppet McGimsie (poppet.mcgimsie)
• Prep Linden (prep.linden)
• Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi)
• Second Life (second.life)
• Sheena Kamala (sheena.kamala)
• Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)
• Bazz Fazz (vir.linden)

Transcript for Monday September 10, 2012

[11:58]	Motor Loon	ey nyx and prep
[11:59]	Prep Linden	yoyo
[11:59]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad)	kinda dead today
[11:59]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad)	I propose that we have a pizza party instead of hte regularly scheduled meeting!
[12:00]	Nyx Linden	agenda is here, feel free to add topics: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Mesh_Import_User_Group
[12:00]	Nyx Linden	/me supports the pizza party initiative
[12:00]	Alexa Linden	Greetings all :)
[12:01]	Alexa Linden	Hi Tank :)
[12:01]	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	Alexa!
[12:01]	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	o/
[12:01]	Alexa Linden	:D
[12:02]	Alexa Linden	Hi Nalates :)
[12:02]	Nyx Linden	going to get started presently, seems a couple of people are still popping in - agenda link is here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Content_Creation/Mesh_Import_User_Group
[12:03]	Nyx Linden	first topic: "Given that the jira is no longer going to be an effective means of accurate two-way exchange of information, how can we communicate with other users about problems with the content creation processes and their solutions, especially in the context of this user group where the commonest question is "can you give me the jira for that issue"? Drongle McMahon"
[12:04]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Added topic
[12:04]	Alexa Linden	Thanks Davido :)
[12:05]	Nyx Linden	good question, this is one we've been getting a lot. Collaborating on an issue is definitely an area of concern with the new JIRA setup
[12:05]	Alexa Linden	yes
[12:05]	Poppet McGimsie	/
[12:05]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Also, won't you get a lot more duplicates this way?
[12:05]	Poppet McGimsie	why did they change it?
[12:05]	Motor Loon	Not excactly thought thru - or deliberate design?
[12:06]	Alexa Linden	That's another concern/ issue we're going to need to look at Davido
[12:06]	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	upper management desision <- thinks thats speaks for itsself on those questisons :P
[12:06]	Motor Loon	Ofcourse
[12:06]	Nyx Linden	for the time being at least, let's try collaborating on the details of a bug report in the forums and taking the results into a jira. We can also discuss details of a particular bug report here to make sure we get the details straighened out before filing an issue
[12:07]	Poppet McGimsie	is it in effect already?
[12:07]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	Your suggesting we talk over a bug here before filing a JIRA item?
[12:07]	Alexa Linden	yes Poppet
[12:08]	Motor Loon	will old Jira's be "converted"
[12:08]	Motor Loon	?
[12:08]	Alexa Linden	for Poppet - http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Tools-and-Technology/JIRA-Update-Changes-to-The-Bug-Reporting-Process/ba-p/1660981
[12:08]	Poppet McGimsie	I read it hee hee
[12:08]	Alexa Linden	at this time I don't believe so Motor
[12:08]	Nyx Linden	this should be a good place to discuss issues you are seeing, and we can clarify if several people are seeing the issue before filing it, to make sure it is complete.
[12:09]	Poppet McGimsie	what about the wiki? I hope there are no corresponding plans to change that?
[12:09]	Nyx Linden	this meeting is appropriate for discussing the details of content creation-related bugs
[12:09]	Alexa Linden	not that I'm aware of Popper
[12:09]	Poppet McGimsie	because it seems perhaps people will discuss things more on wiki pages
[12:09]	Alexa Linden	I can't type today
[12:09]	Alexa Linden	Pottep* (sorry)
[12:09]	Poppet McGimsie	hahaha
[12:09]	Abel Dreamscape	strike 2
[12:09]	Alexa Linden	/me hangs her head in shame
[12:09]	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	>.<
[12:09]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	That would seem to limit the process to a rather small number of people. It would also lengthen the time needed to report a bug.
[12:09]	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	thats ok, we speak typoneese
[12:10]	Alexa Linden	xD
[12:10]	Poppet McGimsie	for example on the LSL wiki, people may well contribute more information in comments that they used to put in the jira
[12:10]	Nyx Linden	not every bug needs to be discussed here, this is just a good place to have those discussions if you want to work with other people on filing a bug
[12:10]	Motor Loon	seems to me, the Wiki would a better place for it anyways
[12:10]	Nyx Linden	the forums are another good place
[12:11]	Poppet McGimsie	yes it is not like the jira was not confusing
[12:11]	Nyx Linden	/me battles with jira every day. sometimes it lets me win ;)
[12:11]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	having a separate platform for bugs makes for a lot easier searching though...
[12:11]	Oz Linden	/me thinks that wikis are not very good for information that does not have a very long useful life
[12:11]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	Could the JIRA push a copy of the report to a special section of the forum?
[12:12]	Alexa Linden	That's something I'm looking at Nalates
[12:12]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	Yay... tht could sove some problems.
[12:12]	Poppet McGimsie	dunno -- for example the wow wiki-things have vry good info about problems in game, that are there a long time, and very useful
[12:12]	Alexa Linden	some way of doing this.. or getting it out there
[12:13]	Poppet McGimsie	it is easier to fin things on search on a wiki too
[12:13]	Motor Loon	ah well, lets just see how it goes... if it goes to hell.. I'd assume the decision would be reverted.
[12:14]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	How do you coordinate and file feature requests? have you stopped accepting those altogether?
[12:14]	Motor Loon	Personally... I kinda like that I now don't have to spend time search jira before doing a report... no longer MY problem if there's 1000 duplicate reports °͜°
[12:15]	Motor Loon	And I'm sure LL will have to hire extra manpower to sort out the jiras ... so new jobs are always a good thing too °͜°
[12:15]	Oz Linden	true, Motor
[12:16]	Nyx Linden	For now file feature requests as bugs, we'll let you know if that changes.
[12:17]	Nyx Linden	any other questions around the JIRA changes and how it affects letting us know about content creation issues? Or should we keep moving to the next agenda topic?
[12:17]	Motor Loon	So we'll be requesting new bugs ,-)) haha, love it...
[12:17]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Aaargh!
[12:18]	Alexa Linden	if you put it in the title, I'll find them ;)
[12:18]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Question, WHY! Did yiou make it so closed?
[12:18]	Alexa Linden	people have been doing FEATURE REQUEST - .....
[12:18]	Motor Loon	Most likely, we'll never get the answer to that Davido °͜°
[12:18]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad)	unfortunately "why" doesn't seem to be an answerable question, at least for now
[12:18]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	One question on that topic...
[12:19]	Motor Loon	(can you kill your soundspam boots Djehan?)
[12:19]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	Who can see the BUG items. Lance a non-Linden could see my BUG-9.
[12:19]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad)	active contributors, support helpers, and a few others I think
[12:19]	Djehan Kidd	yeah sorry
[12:19]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad)	I think Oz and Alexa would know who exactly has access there
[12:19]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	Would that be anyone with a signed C.A.?
[12:20]	Oz Linden	where 'active contributors' and 'support helpers' are Jira groups
[12:20]	Motor Loon	I cant see that Nal
[12:20]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	OK that makes sense
[12:21]	Oz Linden	The active contributors group is a subset of people with CAs
[12:21]	Oz Linden	(the active ones :-) )
[12:21]	Poppet McGimsie	what is ca?
[12:21]	Motor Loon	confidentiality agreement
[12:21]	Oz Linden	Contribution Agreement
[12:21]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	Contributir Agreement
[12:21]	Poppet McGimsie	oh okay
[12:21]	Motor Loon	ah close °͜°
[12:21]	Alexa Linden	lol
[12:22]	Djehan Kidd	what's that?
[12:22]	Oz Linden	there is a set of contributors who pretty routinely provide fixes to easy bugs that people file... I think we all want them to be able to see the new bugs
[12:23]	Djehan Kidd	mesh related I guess
[12:23]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad)	the CA is the thing that people like me have to sign before we can contribute code upstream for the official viewer
[12:23]	Sheena Kamala	The only thing that makes sense about not seeing jira's.. is not being able to see what has or hasn't been dealt with. Other than that.. it makes no sense
[12:23]	Nyx Linden	next topic: "Update on server side texture baking and a request Nyx Linden 08:54, 10 September 2012 (PDT)"
[12:23]	Poppet McGimsie	what is server side texture baking?
[12:23]	Sheena Kamala	sorry.. I am shh.. :-)
[12:24]	Nyx Linden	we're doing some pretty significant moving around of code in the viewer to get ready for server side texture baking and we could use a hand.
[12:24]	Djehan Kidd	server side bakery
[12:24]	Djehan Kidd	smells good
[12:24]	Motor Loon	heavy box lifting?
[12:24]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	Poppet, this is the avatar bake process... server side bake machine
[12:24]	Nyx Linden	We need to have a set of test avatars to make sure that we haven't broken anything, so I figured there might be some creators here who would have some complex avatars that would be good for testing
[12:25]	Nyx Linden	Poppet - we're moving the computations for how to generate your avatar's appearance to our servers instead of your computer.
[12:25]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	Are mesh attachments going to be in the bake process?
[12:25]	Poppet McGimsie	seems that a number of things are shifting to server (like pathfinding)
[12:26]	Poppet McGimsie	that number being 2
[12:26]	Nyx Linden	I'm especially interested in making sure we do the right thing with outfits that use multiple clothing layers, flared pants, alpha masked avatars, and the like
[12:26]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Wasn't pathfinding always server?
[12:26]	Nyx Linden	Nal - attachments will not be part of the baking process, whether they are prim, sculptie, or mesh, they use a different system.
[12:26]	Poppet McGimsie	(in theory pathfinding is a new capability, and not something being moved)
[12:27]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	OK... your "I'm intersted in..." answered the question well.
[12:27]	Motor Loon	Do you need us to test with our avatars - or do you need full avatars & outfit packs that YOU can test with?
[12:27]	Poppet McGimsie	(I don't know if traditional methods of moving prims around were server side or client side)
[12:27]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Baking for atatchements is only needed when we get a feature to have layered textures on them. :D
[12:28]	Nyx Linden	we don't have a viewer ready to hand out for everyone to test on and file bugs against yet, we'd like to get some internal testing done first to make sure we haven't completely broken everything :)
[12:28]	Motor Loon	makes sense
[12:28]	Nyx Linden	also we'd like to get things finished up and the viewer changes a bit more stable first
[12:28]	Djehan Kidd	I hope they fix windlight cloud's density bug soon, and fyi anyone on firestorm it is worst than on LL viewer at the mo
[12:28]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	Nyx, how are we going to get the avatar or avatar info on the bake to you?
[12:29]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	So what you need is any avatar with alpha layers and all kinds of clothing layers, like chaps for pants showing off the underwear layer and stuff? Sexy seethrough lingerie?
[12:30]	Nyx Linden	You can pass me a folder or a marketplace link, or you can let me know what account name and saved outfit name you use, and I can test it out on an internal grid (your account will not be affected)
[12:30]	Djehan Kidd	and quid of the deformer?
[12:30]	Nyx Linden	you can also send me pictures of what the avatar is supposed to look like, that would help as well
[12:30]	Motor Loon	that sounds very doable
[12:31]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	I forget, do you prefer IM/NC/Email?
[12:31]	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	icr :P
[12:31]	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	irc*
[12:31]	Nyx Linden	I personally prefer email, but I'll take whatever format is best for you guys.
[12:31]	Motor Loon	whats wrong with a handwritten note via snailmail now
[12:32]	Alexa Linden	lol
[12:32]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	:P Not that many of us do IRC... I probably should.
[12:32]	Nyx Linden	nyx at lindenlab.com
[12:32]	Bazz Fazz (vir.linden)	include a hand-drawn sketch of the desired appearance :-)
[12:32]	Nyx Linden	TCP over pigeon gets bonus points.
[12:32]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad)	snail mailed I assume Vir? :P
[12:33]	Motor Loon	/me is pretty damn awesome at drawing stick figures
[12:33]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	SPCA will cmplain about us stuffing pidgons into out computers
[12:33]	Alexa Linden	hahaha
[12:34]	Nyx Linden	so let me know if you have any avatars that would be good for testing, and pass the word around that I'm looking for test avatars if you can :)
[12:34]	Geenzian Scientist (geenz.spad)	I'll just sketch something up, scan it, then transmit each packet by carrier pigeon on little pieces of paper
[12:34]	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	one bit at a time, UDP style
[12:34]	Nyx Linden	(remember carrier pigeons have ~50% packet loss)
[12:34]	Alexa Linden	xD
[12:35]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	DAmn, how many pigeons would you need?
[12:35]	Nyx Linden	next topic: "After spending days on a project, I found that a custom physics shape only kicks in after 0.500m, below that it boxes up. On a prim it boxes up under 0.065. Is there is a reason for this? And will this remain at such a large size for a custom form for the future? Obviously this causes issues and inhibits smaller scale builds when smaller and more accurate physics are required. Sheena Kamala"
[12:42]	Second Life	Teleport completed from http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/LindenWorld%20B/153/77/47
[12:44]	Djehan Kidd	wow that was an ugly crash lol
[12:44]	Djehan Kidd	1
[12:45]	Second Life	Teleport completed from http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Hawkshead/15/8/40
[12:45]	Alexa Linden	plus he's got smooth dance moves ;)
[12:46]	Bazz Fazz (vir.linden)	Who ate our region?
[12:46]	Alexa Linden	/me dances to the music in her head....
[12:46]	Kennylex Luckless	It is in the void now.
[12:46]	Alexa Linden	"it's the final countdown........."
[12:46]	Alexa Linden	/me ducks
[12:46]	Poppet McGimsie	wants to see the pink icedream dance
[12:46]	Poppet McGimsie	c*
[12:47]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	There was a lot of big penises floating around in an adjacent region, so I am guessing griefer crash.
[12:47]	Djehan Kidd	http://listenonrepeat.com/watch/?v=_HFE8uIAr8k
[12:47]	Alexa Linden	hahahahahahaha
[12:47]	Alexa Linden	thanks Davido xD
[12:47]	Djehan Kidd	lol
[12:48]	Nyx Linden	Whelp. Shall we just continue here for now?
[12:48]	Alexa Linden	meeting notes... meeting ended due to flying penises.....
[12:48]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	may as well
[12:48]	Motor Loon	yaay
[12:48]	Sheena Kamala	Yes
[12:48]	Alexa Linden	run for the boarder!
[12:48]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	There are less interesting ways to end a meeting.
[12:49]	Nyx Linden	I'll give everyone another minute or two to get back
[12:49]	Nyx Linden	apologies for the interruption
[12:50]	Koli Melune (sahkolihaa.contepomi)	If the sim doesn't crash again...
[12:50]	Poppet McGimsie	think I am crashed
[12:50]	Djehan Kidd	12
[12:50]	Poppet McGimsie	guess not
[12:50]	Poppet McGimsie	did you trip over the plug?
[12:50]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	"run for the boarder!"? Who is boarding what?
[12:51]	Poppet McGimsie	loled at alexa floating down
[12:51]	Motor Loon	Perhaps I should file a feature request jira for a "No crashing" switch in the estate panel
[12:51]	Nyx Linden	ok shall we get back to it?
[12:51]	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	sure
[12:51]	Sheena Kamala	Ready
[12:52]	Nyx Linden	current topic is: "After spending days on a project, I found that a custom physics shape only kicks in after 0.500m, below that it boxes up. On a prim it boxes up under 0.065. Is there is a reason for this? And will this remain at such a large size for a custom form for the future? Obviously this causes issues and inhibits smaller scale builds when smaller and more accurate physics are required. Sheena Kamala"
[12:52]	Sheena Kamala	Yes my q that caused the crash:-)
[12:52]	Poppet McGimsie	Actually I was hoping the person who asked would give a couple of examples of things that need tiny physics -- perhaps it is a quantum effect
[12:53]	Nyx Linden	there is indeed a reason: the physics computations get significantly more complicated the more triangles you pack into a given space, so when you shrink a model down it gets more and more expensive to compute. Prims have less of an issue because their shape is determined by their parameters, not just a group of triangles
[12:53]	Sheena Kamala	Not so tiny really.. i was aiming for .3.. but was too small
[12:53]	Motor Loon	/me googles quantum effect
[12:54]	Poppet McGimsie	why does something so tiny need a custom physics sha[e? just curious
[12:54]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Motor, that will give you a nice week of uninterrupted reading.
[12:54]	Motor Loon	Oh joy and fun
[12:54]	Sheena Kamala	So you are saying that if I had less triangles.. I could make it below .5?
[12:54]	Poppet McGimsie	a week? I spent 30 years on it
[12:55]	Second Life	Lynn Jestyr (glblynlwynlwyg.jestyr) is now known as Lynn.
[12:55]	Motor Loon	yeah I'll get back to you in 2042
[12:55]	Sheena Kamala	I couldn't find any information about physic limitations anywhere.. so this is why I needed to bring it up
[12:55]	Djehan Kidd	1
[12:55]	Poppet McGimsie	Sheena, I am really curious, why something small needs a custom physics shape?
[12:55]	Nyx Linden	no, we set 0.5 as the size when meshes switch to a box physics shape, the size of the switch is fixed, not variable
[12:55]	Motor Loon	its more about it "switching to convex" I think
[12:56]	Sheena Kamala	So the triangle amounts are irrelevant really? Sorry I just want to be clear here.. not trying to argue
[12:56]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	Nyx, is that something that is happening server side, during upload, or what?
[12:56]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	That's interesting, so you don't have to bother with making cheap custom physocs for jewelry then, it will be all the same?
[12:56]	Motor Loon	but perhaps you should consider having it to a m3 volume instead of any x,y,z being under 0.5
[12:57]	Motor Loon	why would jewelry need physics at all ?!
[12:57]	Poppet McGimsie	my question eactly
[12:57]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Because you can't upload it without it. XD
[12:57]	Djehan Kidd	maybe Sheena is making very special things that need physics, what kinda obj are you talking about sheena?
[12:57]	Poppet McGimsie	really curious
[12:57]	Motor Loon	just upload it with a simple box or something... dont matter
[12:57]	Sheena Kamala	Well it's not for jewellery.. I don't think that would be necessary
[12:57]	Nyx Linden	the switch happens at run-time on the server side. Triangle counts are not irrelevant, but the limit is not based on triangle counts. triangle counts still have a performance impact.
[12:57]	Poppet McGimsie	sher must be making a flea circus
[12:58]	Djehan Kidd	*+ LoL +*
[12:58]	Sheena Kamala	Yeah it's a flea circus lol
[12:58]	Motor Loon	but something thats 10m x 10m x 0.4 shouldn't get this action applied
[12:58]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Might be an issue if you want to make pathfinding mesh small birds?
[12:58]	Motor Loon	if it's 0.4x0.4x0.4 its another matter
[12:58]	Poppet McGimsie	but why? they could still move around as blobs
[12:58]	Sheena Kamala	Okay an example woud be.. if you have a maze and want marbles to run through it.. if it's table size.. it won't work.. that's a comparason to what I am making
[12:59]	Poppet McGimsie	ah okay
[12:59]	Motor Loon	small birds should probably use a boxshape anyway Davido
[12:59]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Yeah, sorry, bad example. I can't think of a good example I must admit...
[12:59]	Nyx Linden	would probably be pretty challenging to see what's going on in a table-size maze in SL - things tend to focus on larger builds, but point taken
[12:59]	Motor Loon	Havok wouldn't run that well anyway Sheena
[13:00]	Sheena Kamala	I have found a way around it.. after 3 days.. but it has been a killer to find out
[13:00]	Poppet McGimsie	but why do spheres need a custom physics shape?
[13:00]	Sheena Kamala	Poppet in this case/.. it would be the walls actually
[13:00]	Sheena Kamala	they would not allow the ball to run between them
[13:00]	Motor Loon	yeah I can see a wall with a doorway being the main thing "damaged" by this
[13:00]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	Does the physics change happen for Prims and Mesh?
[13:01]	Poppet McGimsie	she's making a 3d graphic machinima of fantastic voyange?
[13:01]	Sheena Kamala	prims is .065.. mesh is .5.. so a huge difference
[13:01]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	oh that splains it
[13:01]	Sheena Kamala	lol Poppet :-PP
[13:01]	awesome (jana.drezelan)	what kind ov tpic one?
[13:01]	awesome (jana.drezelan)	of*
[13:02]	Sheena Kamala	Ok.. so it will remain at .5?
[13:02]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Hmm, reminds me of a person that tried to make longer race tracks by scaling down the cars to petite size. The cars were great fun to drive, but the physics engine had trouble dealing with them. Went right through most prims.
[13:02]	awesome (jana.drezelan)	nope when linked it will be back to 0.65 ^^
[13:02]	Nyx Linden	currently there are not plans to change the limit.
[13:02]	awesome (jana.drezelan)	yeay!
[13:02]	Poppet McGimsie	Sheena, how does the failure manifest? in Execution in world, or during upload f mesh?
[13:02]	Motor Loon	you could always do some trickery to your mesh to make it's "bounding" box better than the actually mesh object
[13:02]	Motor Loon	as a workaround
[13:02]	Sheena Kamala	It happens on rezz inworld
[13:02]	Nyx Linden	we're a bit over time, mind if I keep moving to the next topic?
[13:02]	Motor Loon	will cost a bit more on PE though
[13:03]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	ok w/me
[13:03]	awesome (jana.drezelan)	i has a question if its ok.. my mesh have same physic box but avatars seems to hover like 20 cm over it
[13:03]	Djehan Kidd	next topic is?
[13:03]	Sheena Kamala	Yes I have afound a way around it now.. but it's ugly lol
[13:03]	Nyx Linden	next topic: "Lots of landowners are turning pathfinding off on their sims, claiming a significant performance hit with pathfinding enabled. I did not see this effect in my own experiments. I wonder what other people are finding. Poppet McGimsie"
[13:03]	Djehan Kidd	yes I did
[13:04]	Djehan Kidd	it was noticable the first days after releasing pathfinding I think that now it should be safe to go back to normal and peopel will do it
[13:04]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	You might need to come back tomorrow for that?
[13:04]	Motor Loon	I didn't jump on the "panic wagon"... and I've seen no problems with pathfinding enabled on any of my sims
[13:04]	Djehan Kidd	was on FS at least, no idea with LL viewer
[13:04]	Poppet McGimsie	what is the effect on, Djehan? Which statistics?
[13:04]	Djehan Kidd	I had a bit of lag and my users were reporting lag as well and it was better a bit after I turned it off, it's just that I forgot now
[13:04]	Djehan Kidd	it had typical lag
[13:04]	Nyx Linden	there should be little to no performance impact with enabling pathfinding. If you put a bunch of pathfinding objects on your sim, the quality of the pathfinding should degrade instead of the sim's performance.
[13:05]	Djehan Kidd	but now it should be fine maybe
[13:05]	Djehan Kidd	I will turn it back on anyways
[13:05]	Poppet McGimsie	well I looked at statics with and without pathfinding enabled and could not see a thing on the statistics window
[13:05]	Djehan Kidd	I did turn it off I had users telling me "laaaag "na dI saw quickly saw a text saying to turn it off on firestorm webpage
[13:05]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	SL has had an increase in Lag since pathfinding went on. but it seems to be regardless if Pathfinding is turned off or not.
[13:06]	Djehan Kidd	but yes turning it back on soon
[13:06]	Motor Loon	even if you did see something on the statistics window ... I'm rather sure you'd never feel the effect on the sim
[13:06]	Poppet McGimsie	everyone is saying that, but no one is saying what they mean by lag -- whih statistic is being affected?
[13:06]	Nyx Linden	if anyone knows of a particular region that can reproduce worse performance with pathfinding enabled, please let us know and we'll investigate
[13:06]	Djehan Kidd	$it was typical lag, like trying to walk and slowing down even with my fast machine
[13:06]	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	i thkn the updated havoc may be more to blame than pathfinding
[13:06]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	/me nods.
[13:07]	Poppet McGimsie	but how do you distinguish that lag from just regular old lag? I mean, you'd have to turn it on and off a few times and see some effect
[13:07]	Poppet McGimsie	sometimes there are just lag spikes
[13:07]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	That would make sense. Because the lag seems worse than before regardless of whether Pathfinding is on or off. Since Pathfinding when grid wide.
[13:07]	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	as enabeling/disableing PF doesnt really do anything performance wise, but going between region with it and without it, there was a noticable diff
[13:07]	Djehan Kidd	and fiberoptic connexion, typical lag but maybe it was something else, it is just that the word spreads fast if it is announced on FS webpage to turn it off
[13:07]	Nyx Linden	the new havoc code will still be enabled even if you turn off the pathfinding feature
[13:07]	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	rght ^
[13:07]	Motor Loon	yeah... BAD firestorm team... BAD
[13:07]	Phoenix-FirestormViewer Rocks (tankmaster.finesmith)	?
[13:08]	Djehan Kidd	I didn't try to look further, it is as well typical to get laggy with a new feature the first days and it is fixed very shortly after
[13:08]	Djehan Kidd	turning it back on anyways
[13:08]	Poppet McGimsie	fixed psychologically I think
[13:08]	Nyx Linden	anyways if you guys know of a region that can reproduce worse performance, let us know where it is and we will investigate
[13:08]	Nyx Linden	next topic: "Status of Deformer, custom riggs, and so on... [Davido Chrome]"
[13:08]	Djehan Kidd	ha yessssss
[13:09]	Djehan Kidd	deformer ! deformer!
[13:09]	Poppet McGimsie	is there any reason taht pathfinding should affect sim performance (other than the incredibly wonderful decrease in scripts times of pathfinding scripts over traditional ones)
[13:09]	Nyx Linden	Oz knows more about the latest status than I do - I would check at his Usergroup
[13:09]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	A new deformer viewer came out last week...
[13:09]	Djehan Kidd	how is it going?
[13:09]	Motor Loon	but with the new deformer "setup" you need clothes thats uploaded espicially for deformer to even test it out
[13:09]	Nyx Linden	Poppet - the amount of time that pathfinding uses on the sim should be very small, not very noticeable at all.
[13:10]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Hah, I knew it was a good idea to wait with buying rigged mesh clothes!
[13:10]	Poppet McGimsie	people are trippin' out about it big time though
[13:10]	Motor Loon	Put 20 VKC dogs on your sim.... look at performance.... then get 20 pathfinding VKC dogs and repeat... I'm sure your sim will be ALOT better of
[13:10]	Djehan Kidd	deformer was working great for me with like a full avatar figure, as soon as I started to make clothes it started to get distorted
[13:11]	Poppet McGimsie	(which of course they do about something every day)
[13:11]	Djehan Kidd	how is it now? is there any mm, bets about when it should come out?
[13:11]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	Poppet a lot of information on Pathfinding is here: http://blog.nalates.net/?cat=139
[13:12]	Nyx Linden	Sorry I don't have any updated information on the deformer project. Oz should know more, please catch him at his usergroup
[13:12]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Makes sense. Homemade LSL pathfinding algorithms would be a lot less effective than backend defined pathfinding.
[13:12]	Poppet McGimsie	thanks nalates, will have a look
[13:12]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	The latest I have on the Deformer is here: http://blog.nalates.net/2012/09/08/mesh-deformer-update-36/
[13:13]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Though writing pathfinding algorithms is fun!
[13:13]	Nyx Linden	last topic (sorry have to get on to other work today) "When can we expect this Jira to be fixed/released ? https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-29183 [Gaia Clary]"
[13:13]	Poppet McGimsie	and those sub-.01 ms script times are very lovely
[13:14]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Nal: Server not found
[13:14]	Nyx Linden	I don't have an ETA on a fix for that bug, but I will float this one as a candidate to be worked on
[13:14]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	Its working for me AlveHatt
[13:14]	Gaia Clary	Prep has told me 2 months ago, it was fixed and iot wol dbe available with the next pathfinding update...
[13:15]	Nyx Linden	ok, I'll ask him for a status update
[13:15]	Gaia Clary	but i never saw any viewer that had the fix applied :(
[13:15]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	AlveKatt... sorry
[13:15]	Gaia Clary	thanks
[13:15]	Nyx Linden	unfortunately need to wrap up here. Thanks for coming out everyone and thanks for your patience with the region today!
[13:15]	Poppet McGimsie	thanks
[13:15]	Poppet McGimsie	see you all alter
[13:15]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	Gaia, any word on when we will see the next Blender release?
[13:15]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Nal, ah worked the second time I clicked the link. Strange.
[13:15]	Nal (nalates.urriah)	Bye Lindens...
[13:16]	Sheena Kamala	Thanks and ciao for now:-)
[13:16]	ÄlveKatt (davido.chrome)	Thank you½

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