Mono/2008-02-08

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Revision as of 16:09, 8 February 2008 by Periapse Linden (Talk | contribs)

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[14:57]  DNA: 1228 bytes free
[14:57]  Move: Anchor off. No-fall mode off. 
[14:57]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
[14:57]  Connected
[14:57]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Hiya
[14:58]  You: Hi, folks. I'm going to disable scripts in this region only for the next hour
[14:58]  Daten Thielt: nps were here for the meeting anywho
[14:59]  Rex Cronon: hello everybody
[14:59]  Daten Thielt: hi there
[14:59]  Daten Thielt: Periapse how do we pronounce your name?
[14:59]  You: Hello, Rex
[14:59]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Howdy
[14:59]  Rex Cronon: is this the place where the mono office hours?
[14:59]  Daten Thielt: yup
[14:59]  You: It's pronounced perry-apps
[14:59]  Daten Thielt: :D pink was right, thanks
[14:59]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: lol
[14:59]  You: just call me peri ;-)
[14:59]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Daten was right now
[15:00]  Daten Thielt: so we sit on the floor or we get seats? lol
[15:00]  Daten Thielt: is this in chat or voice?
[15:00]  Rex Cronon: r u a vampire hunter?
[15:01]  You: This will be chat, since I want to be able to post the transcript
[15:01]  Daten Thielt: good poin
[15:01]  Daten Thielt: t
[15:01]  You: feel free to rez yourself a chair ;-)
[15:02]  You: If only one could say that in real world meetings...
[15:02]  Daten Thielt: yea lol BYOC
[15:02]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: lol
[15:02]  Daten Thielt: already on BYOB <Jd actualy>
[15:02]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Oh boy
[15:02]  You: This sim has been crashing a lot today. so give me a minute to turn off scripting
[15:02]  Entering god mode, level 200
[15:02]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: kk
[15:02]  Daten Thielt: np
[15:02]  Daten Thielt: only takes 4 clicks :D:
[15:03]  Daten Thielt: 5*
[15:03]  You: done
[15:03]  Daten Thielt: something tells me the meeting isent going to be to big today
[15:03]  You: well, first I had to go into god mode.
[15:03]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: ooo...God mode
[15:03]  Daten Thielt: ahh :D lindens should have EM powers
[15:03]  Daten Thielt: less clicks
[15:04]  You: Yeah, small group
[15:04]  Rex Cronon: was there an office hour on wednesday?
[15:04]  Feynt Mistral: Yay, I finally got into the sim.
[15:04]  Feynt Mistral: It's denying teleport entry for some reason.
[15:04]  You: The one on Wednesday morning is at 8am SLT
[15:05]  Rex Cronon: i logged directly into this sim
[15:05]  You: Welcome, Feynt
[15:05]  Daten Thielt: want a chair Peri?
[15:05]  Daten Thielt: lol
[15:06]  You: That's ok, I sit all day long. The standing is good for my legs ;-)
[15:06]  Feynt Mistral: >D
[15:06]  Daten Thielt: hehe
[15:06]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: lol
[15:06]  Leaving god mode, level 200
[15:06]  Daten Thielt: i think ive only got about 3 questions, maby more when i think of them
[15:06]  Feynt Mistral: I wasn't able to attend the meeting on Tuesday, but thankfully all 7 of my questions were answered.
[15:07]  You: Well, I want to start by mentioning that we do two office hours every weeki
[15:07]  Feynt Mistral: Unfortunatelly 4 of them were passed off to "ask Babbage during the office hours" >D
[15:07]  You: The wednesday one is at 8am SLT so that EU residents can attend
[15:07]  Daten Thielt: i am EU lol
[15:08]  Daten Thielt: but i sleep on an american time lime
[15:08]  Daten Thielt: line*
[15:08]  You: Daten -- I guess it's only 11pm or so for you?
[15:08]  Feynt Mistral: I know that feeling, I'm EST but I sleep PST times. >)
[15:08]  Daten Thielt: yea england lol
[15:08]  Daten Thielt: hehe
[15:08]  Daten Thielt: ok ill shutup now and let ya talk
[15:08]  You: Well, that's where Babbage and Scouse live.
[15:09]  You: They work out of our Brighton UK office
[15:09]  Daten Thielt: i want to work as a linden but my app hasent been seen to i dont think
[15:09]  You: So right about now I'm guessing they're at the pub. :-)
[15:09]  Daten Thielt: i love concierge work
[15:09]  Daten Thielt: lol yea
[15:09]  Daten Thielt: friday
[15:09]  Feynt Mistral: Woot, pub night.
[15:09]  You: We can use this time for several things.
[15:10]  You: If you have questions I will either answer them
[15:10]  You: or if they are too technical for my poor PM brain, I'll bring them up with the developers and get back to you
[15:10]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: That's a challenge...Love those!
[15:10]  You: Also, if you have specific bugs you've discovered and JIRAfyed
[15:11]  Feynt Mistral: I'll be getting those same 4 passed on to Babbage I guess. >D
[15:11]  Daten Thielt: lol
[15:11]  Rex Cronon: where can i find the transcript from wednesday?
[15:11]  You: we can discuss repro and priority for getting them fixed.
[15:11]  You: No challenge, APinkSwan -- it's far too easy to go over my head.
[15:11]  Feynt Mistral: >D
[15:11]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: lol
[15:11]  Periapse Linden hasn't written a line of professional code since 1998
[15:12]  Daten Thielt: ouch
[15:12]  Daten Thielt: no offence but why you ?
[15:12]  You: I'm the PM for the project.
[15:12]  Daten Thielt: Ahh
[15:12]  Feynt Mistral: That's ok, coding is like bike riding. After 10 years you just keep falling off until you break something. >D
[15:12]  Daten Thielt: lmao!
[15:12]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: ahahahaahahaha
[15:13]  Daten Thielt: oke just tell me when i can shoot with questions
[15:13]  You: Hey, Saijanai, welcome
[15:13]  You: Daten, go ahead
[15:14]  Daten Thielt: ok first question, When can we expect to be able to send our regions in for Mono testing
[15:14]  You: Oh, someone asked about the Wednesday transcript. I'll look for it.
[15:14]  Daten Thielt: on either main or beta grid
[15:14]  Rex Cronon: oh, and could it be possible that the following page can have the links to all the transcripts, new and old: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mono
[15:14]  Feynt Mistral: I read in Tuesday's transcript that loading the Mono engine along side the LSL VM wouldn't be hard, but that'd be after Havok comes out.
[15:15]  You: Good question, Daten. The havok4 beta seems to have created this expectation, no?
[15:15]  Daten Thielt: yea just a bit
[15:15]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: For sure
[15:15]  Feynt Mistral nods
[15:15]  Daten Thielt: there is a sim inpaticular i wana get here
[15:15]  You: We never used to do this. But it's been a great success for havok4
[15:16]  Daten Thielt: i loved it me and pink have about7 of our regions on H4
[15:16]  You: I'm not sure though that the same applies for Mono. I'll explain in a bit.
[15:16]  You: But first: We don't currently have plans to schedule regions to bring up in Mono-enabled, nor do we yet have plans for going to agni.
[15:17]  You: We're still in the "stop the bleeding" phase for Mono. Just look at the meta issue, or the table Saijanai has made of all the bugs
[15:18]  You: But next month we should be talking about next steps.
[15:18]  You: So let me get your opinions on scheduling regions to bring up in Mono.
[15:18]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: NOw
[15:18]  You: Realize that scripts and physics are different.
[15:18]  Feynt Mistral: >D
[15:18]  Feynt Mistral: Now.
[15:19]  You: Bringing up a sim in Havok4 makes everything Havok4
[15:19]  Feynt Mistral would like a month after havok 4.
[15:19]  Daten Thielt: I can see that bringing mono whilst H4 is up could be probllmatic but i would love to see the change in script MS,
[15:19]  You: But with Mono you stil have to recompile to use the new VM
[15:19]  Daten Thielt: dose mono currently have more or less bugs than H4?
[15:20]  You: I haven't checked Havok4 lately...
[15:20]  Daten Thielt: still that entire vichel system
[15:20]  You: We have several dozen
[15:20]  Daten Thielt: lol
[15:21]  You: So, given that you still have to recompile all your scripts (that you want to test) to Mono, is there stil benefit to bringing a region up under Mono?
[15:21]  You: Why not just rez objects here in a Sandbox, since you have to recompile a selection anyway?
[15:22]  Daten Thielt: well im a lag conciouse person, all the sims i manage MUST be under 5.0 MS in script time else i go nuts, i would love to be able to see the change in MS when mono is involved, im not sure weather its possible for the Devs to make a button to reset all scripts in a region but that could helo
[15:22]  Daten Thielt: help*
[15:22]  You: Anyone have an opinion on that? I
[15:23]  You: Ah, Daten. That's my next discussion point.
[15:23]  Rex Cronon: how about if this sim was at least half damage anabled?
[15:23]  Saijanai Kuhn: shameless plug: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Saijanai_Kuhn/Mono_issues
[15:23]  Daten Thielt: thanks saijanai
[15:24]  You: Ah, Rex -- good point. I want to get a water sim, a damage sim (or parcels), and a teen grid sim running Mono
[15:24]  You: Hopefully next week. It's hard because the Havok4 beta is still running, and they pretty much own this grid.
[15:24]  Rex Cronon: i think rausch would make a good choice
[15:24]  You: I managed to get this one host, so that's four regions.
[15:24]  You: Not Jesse?
[15:24]  Daten Thielt: that sux, i would happily say here use mine lol
[15:25]  You: lol
[15:25]  Saijanai Kuhn: Periapse, I mentioned thisidea to Sidewinder. IF there's a hard time getting people to host mono sims on the main grid, offer them an incentive of being on a publicly available list (optional)
[15:25]  Rex Cronon: hi sai
[15:25]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: I can understand H4 taking precedence since it is on the main grid though.
[15:25]  Daten Thielt: i mean mono and H4 together are a mean combination of lag reducing
[15:25]  Daten Thielt: lol
[15:25]  Rex Cronon: why don't u want h4 and mono together?
[15:25]  Daten Thielt: je my point
[15:25]  Feynt Mistral: Mmm, food.
[15:25]  Saijanai Kuhn: combinations of errors make it harder to test for bugs...
[15:25]  Daten Thielt: true
[15:25]  Rex Cronon: was typing at same time as u:)
[15:26]  You: Eventually we will merge the codelines of Havok4 and Mono and see what weird coupling we obtain.
[15:26]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: I agree Saiijanai
[15:26]  Squirrel Wood: Hello!
[15:26]  Daten Thielt: Heya
[15:26]  Rex Cronon: hi
[15:26]  You: I talked about it with sidewinder a month ago and we just smiled and thought "No, we're not ready for that yet"
[15:26]  Daten Thielt crosses his legs, NOT MY NUTS!
[15:26]  You: Heya, Squirrel.
[15:27]  Squirrel Wood: ^^
[15:27]  Saijanai Kuhn: hey, if sidewinder wants to make a few of his H4 grids also mono... ;-)
[15:27]  Daten Thielt: sidewinder is a sim hog?
[15:27]  You: So that's why for now at least we aren't going to do the region scheduling for Mono here.
[15:28]  Feynt Mistral: Morning Squirrel.
[15:28]  Daten Thielt: better to be safe than sorry
[15:28]  You: We can re-examine it after Havok4 finishes with this grid.
[15:28]  Saijanai Kuhn: though you need to leave at least 1 or 2 H4 sims here to test for reagion crossing issues
[15:28]  You: So if you have good reasons why it would benefit you to bring up region X under Mono please contribute to those discussions
[15:29]  Daten Thielt: can i ask next quesioon?
[15:29]  Squirrel Wood: simple: to test mono scripts and vehicles on h4 ?
[15:29]  Feynt Mistral: >)
[15:29]  You: Squirrel, we're talking about bringing up regions under Mono, not havok4
[15:29]  Feynt Mistral: Actually I have a good reason Periapse: There are some scripts in Serenity Woods which will never be converted to Mono, as the creators are gone or simply unavailable.
[15:29]  Daten Thielt: A good reason for me would be Protoball
[15:30]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: I think Peri is looking for something more specific...:)
[15:30]  Feynt Mistral: Those of us scripters for the sim however would like to test our creations recompiled under Mono to see what impact it would have on the sim combined with the current LSL2 scripts.
[15:30]  Daten Thielt: ja!
[15:30]  You: Feynt. Ok - so I think I see the problem. What you seem to really be asking for is a way to automatically turn all of a regions scripts over to Mono bytecode
[15:30]  Daten Thielt: that sounds righ
[15:30]  Daten Thielt: t
[15:31]  Feynt Mistral: Well that would also be nice, but it's more that we want to see if our scripts will affect the script time enough to make a difference.
[15:31]  Feynt Mistral: Or if we should be scrapping the old scripted objects and replace them.
[15:31]  You: We (the Studio Blighty Mono team) are really dubious about automatically converting scripts to Mono.
[15:31]  You: For a lot of reasons:
[15:31]  You: 1) Scripts will all reset
[15:32]  You: 2) Really old, legacy scripts may not compile, work correctly, and the scripter may not be available
[15:32]  Daten Thielt: Dose this mean recompile scripts button will work finaly?
[15:32]  Feynt Mistral: An issue with our sim, which we understand.
[15:33]  You: 3) It may be that you scripters want to maintain control over your bytecode.
[15:33]  Daten Thielt: yes!
[15:33]  Feynt Mistral: At the same time, I think it would be nice for the object owner to be able to recompile scripted objects on a per object basis.
[15:33]  Rex Cronon: but, won't lsl be abandoned eventually, so if that happens legacy scripts wil vanish too
[15:33]  You: If we automatically convert we rob you of the opportunity to test and sell a new Mono version
[15:34]  Daten Thielt: true
[15:34]  You: and 4) we don't have plans to eliminate the LSL2 VM.
[15:34]  You: so there is no need.
[15:34]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: AH....Okay....this is making sense to me now.
[15:34]  Daten Thielt: but dose that not mean 40% of old items wont work due to inactive creators?
[15:34]  Feynt Mistral: As a scripter, I can gleefully say that I would not be so shallow as to require someone to buy the same product compiled under a different VM. >)
[15:34]  Saijanai Kuhn: well, if it compiles the first time, sure. But what if rewrites are needed?
[15:34]  You: Feynt - but think about it. What if there are slight differences in behavior?
[15:35]  Feynt Mistral: /
[15:35]  You: It may be really simple to recompile your script to Mono, but *testing* it is labor that you might want to recoup.
[15:35]  Rex Cronon: i am not sure i understand point #3, what do u mean we want to maintain control over the bytecode
[15:35]  You: What I'm talking about now, Rex.
[15:35]  Daten Thielt: Rex we dont want to release our scripts open sorce
[15:35]  Daten Thielt: lol
[15:35]  Daten Thielt is wrnong then
[15:35]  Squirrel Wood: there are quite a number of products which are not intended to be reset
[15:36]  You: You might want to be reimbursed for the effort of recompiling and testing your scripts under mono
[15:36]  Squirrel Wood: doing so will break the scripts and functionality on those
[15:36]  You: yes, Squirrel,
[15:37]  You: so that's why we're afraid to do an automatic conversion to Mono
[15:37]  You: We prefer to leave it up to the scripters like yourselves.
[15:38]  You: Some may release Mono versions free to all customers. Others will charge for it.
[15:38]  Squirrel Wood: though there are products out there that have been scripted by people who either have left SL or have moved on to another plane of existence
[15:38]  Feynt Mistral: Yay crashing. I believe that's what this beta is here for, to make LSL Mono work like the LSL2 VM.
[15:38]  You: Next question?
[15:38]  Daten Thielt: ok second question, Ive been working closeley with some animators to make less laggy animation scripts, but the minimum we could acheeve was 0.200 when in use, will mono decrease this?
[15:38]  Feynt Mistral: If a product I've made doesn't work right after converting, I would make a newer version available for free.
[15:39]  Squirrel Wood: animations.. use multiple scripts ?
[15:39]  You: Daten, as far as I know none of our benchmarks used animation calls.
[15:39]  Thunder Rahja: the event delay in prior LSL was about 0.13. Mono seems to be reduced to 0.05, thereabouts.
[15:39]  Daten Thielt: so why do animations cause up to 0.800 MS when sat on in script time
[15:39]  You: This would be good to get into our benchmarks
[15:40]  Feynt Mistral: Oh, on a related topic, will Mono affect the timing to rez things?
[15:40]  You: Daten -- that sounds like an awful lot of wasted time. Please file a JIRA.
[15:40]  You: I'll make sure it gets looked at.
[15:40]  Daten Thielt: will do
[15:41]  You: Feynt -- I belive most of the time for rezzing is downloading the assets. If that's true then no change.
[15:41]  Feynt Mistral: And on another related note, for shielding specifically, will sensor calls trigger faster for an llRezObject call to put a barrier in the path of an object?
[15:41]  Squirrel Wood: A decent number of scripts running tight loops (not using timers, not using llSleep) will slow down mono considerably. up to the point of near standstill
[15:42]  Feynt Mistral didn't mean fully rezzed with textures, he meant a prim object appears in world faster.
[15:42]  Thunder Rahja: you talking about a while(1) loop? @ Squirrel
[15:42]  Saijanai Kuhn: thats odd. NOt working
[15:42]  Squirrel Wood: for example
[15:42]  Feynt Mistral: Seems like scripts are disabled.
[15:42]  Thunder Rahja: in this region they are.
[15:42]  Rex Cronon: scripts are off here and now, sai
[15:43]  You: I disabled scripts in this region just for this hour
[15:43]  Saijanai Kuhn: ah, OK. So muchforst multi-taskin
[15:43]  Feynt Mistral: Heh
[15:43]  You: I didn't want any crashies
[15:43]  Saijanai Kuhn: makes the sense
[15:43]  Feynt Mistral: Or griefing.
[15:43]  You: that too
[15:44]  You: Feynt -- I don't think there is any direct speedup. But it's easy for you to test it yourself, no?
[15:44]  Feynt Mistral: Not specifically, but I can find a "friend" to take some pot shots at me. >D
[15:44]  You: lol.
[15:44]  Daten Thielt: I hear that with mono some other languages may be possible but, do linden labs think its a good idea, LSL is a simple language and with very little c++ knowlage i learnt it in under a year, but if for example c++ was able, it would screw some people over, i cant get my head around big languages and more advance code means us who only know LSL will downfall
[15:45]  Feynt Mistral: LSL won't disappear.
[15:45]  You: Daten -- we have no plans to abandon LSL
[15:45]  Saijanai Kuhn: I'm thinking of putting up a jira to start work on LSL3.
[15:45]  Daten Thielt: i know i mean, some one could say bring out an object that can do a hell of alot more than LSL
[15:45]  You: we might *add* support for another language, like C#
[15:45]  Saijanai Kuhn: LSL3 would be mono-only
[15:46]  Squirrel Wood: even if C++ or C# is added, there would be certain constraints in regards of the functionality methinks
[15:46]  Saijanai Kuhn: and NOT backwards compatible
[15:46]  You: right, we need to sandbox carefully
[15:46]  Rex Cronon: somebody could really have "fun" with poiters
[15:46]  Rex Cronon: pointers*
[15:46]  Saijanai Kuhn: so no-one likes theidea of LSL3?
[15:46]  Squirrel Wood: like, memory constraints, no file operations, ...
[15:47]  You: Squirrel -- absolutely.
[15:47]  Squirrel Wood: why not jump from lsl2 to lsl5 ? :p
[15:47]  Daten Thielt: nah
[15:47]  You: lol
[15:47]  Daten Thielt: lsl20012
[15:47]  Saijanai Kuhn: sls 2009
[15:47]  Saijanai Kuhn: NM
[15:47]  Thunder Rahja: the 64kb limit is just fine.
[15:47]  Squirrel Wood: UltraLSL
[15:47]  You: ExtremeLSL
[15:47]  Thunder Rahja: haha.
[15:47]  Daten Thielt: oh thats soming, so in mono we have 64kb to play with not 16?
[15:48]  You: daten - yes
[15:48]  Daten Thielt: wow thats alot more :D
[15:48]  Saijanai Kuhn: thing is, right now there are constraints on tryng to keep LSL2 and mono-LSL2 the same, so we can't use new mono-features
[15:48]  Squirrel Wood: by the by...
[15:48]  Squirrel Wood: xtea encryption in mono is plenty fast now :)
[15:48]  Saijanai Kuhn: link messaging seems quite slow
[15:48]  Feynt Mistral: Damn it, this client's crashing so often...
[15:48]  Rex Cronon: but still no function to say how much memory is available at any time:(
[15:48]  Feynt Mistral: I hadn't crashed this much all of last year. x.x.
[15:48]  Daten Thielt: Oh, i know that linden labs say notecard writing means creating new assets, but with mono is there another way now or is it still something we can only dream about?
[15:49]  Saijanai Kuhn: Daten, you can use a LIBSL bot to create a notecard via email
[15:49]  You: Daten -- mono doesn't change asset system
[15:49]  Daten Thielt: i know i use a LibSl bot but once again C# baffles me :D
[15:49]  Feynt Mistral: Ah, this question touches on one of mine, allowing scripts to write to scratch space in a sim.
[15:49]  Squirrel Wood: According to Zero, writing to notecards is unlikely to happen as it creates too much of a loadon the asset server.
[15:49]  Rex Cronon: sai, can u do that with a script?
[15:49]  Thunder Rahja: That's something I've not heard about before... writing notecards with automatic processes.
[15:50]  Saijanai Kuhn: well, after Which helps me finish/debug my Python scripts, you could in theory write a bot in any language except LSL
[15:50]  Daten Thielt: all i want is my libsl bot to check script times for me XD
[15:50]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Simpleton
[15:50]  You: Feynt -- you're the second person I've heard ask about a scratch space
[15:50]  Squirrel Wood: every time you change a notecard, a new asset has to be created and contents copied over.. Imagine a million scripts writing to notecards... the hell! LAG. Panic!
[15:50]  Feynt Mistral: Actually I'm the first too. >3
[15:51]  Saijanai Kuhn: grey goo + notecard creation
[15:51]  Daten Thielt: let us save notecards to our own comps XD
[15:51]  Daten Thielt: or our own servers
[15:51]  Daten Thielt: lol
[15:51]  Daten Thielt is fully aware of security
[15:51]  You: Feynt -- oh, that's right!
[15:51]  Feynt Mistral: You can already save to your own servers using HTML.
[15:51]  Thunder Rahja: there would be limits added to notecard creation of course
[15:51]  Rex Cronon: what exactly happens when u change the name or description of an object, isn't that data written to the database?
[15:51]  Saijanai Kuhn: what we need is a way to have an item in the inteventory window that isn't an asset
[15:51]  Daten Thielt is a little drunk, and will shutup now
[15:51]  Squirrel Wood: hmm.. a sim-restricted scratch space of 1mbyte per script... Oh My ^^
[15:51]  Saijanai Kuhn: WHich is a really messy cilent issue
[15:51]  Feynt Mistral: Not per script, per resident.
[15:52]  You: Rex -- the meta info changes (inventory server, I think) but the asset remains the same
[15:52]  Feynt Mistral: Per script could get very costly, I've got several dozen scripts running in Serenity Woods. >)
[15:52]  You: but i'm not sure of that...
[15:52]  Saijanai Kuhn: Rex, when you change a name or anything else in a client window, that automatically updates the server. TheGUI and server are linked really heavilyt
[15:52]  Squirrel Wood: assume 5k scripts per sim. 4 sims per machine.. 20GB of space... with todays hard disk sizes... no problem
[15:52]  Feynt Mistral: But if they could, say, read and write to the same memory area, they could share data effectively.
[15:52]  Thunder Rahja: I must have about 40-50 scripts on me.
[15:53]  Thunder Rahja: attached.
[15:53]  Rex Cronon: than create a new field in the meta data that used for reading/writing
[15:53]  Rex Cronon: sai, i can change name using a lsl function, as many times as i want
[15:53]  You: So there's a few minutes left. Anyone else have questions?
[15:54]  Feynt Mistral: I can just pass my notecard along. >D
[15:54]  Feynt Mistral gave you Feynt's Mono Questions.
[15:54]  Thunder Rahja: Is there any sort of timeframe on this yet?
[15:54]  You: Thunder, timeframe on what?
[15:55]  Saijanai Kuhn: wanted to remind folks to use my table, vote on my jira, and did you mention the idea of using debug messages as tags, Periapse?
[15:55]  Feynt Mistral: I believe possible main grid testing, completion of Mono, integration of new languages. The works.
[15:55]  Thunder Rahja: It's probably hard to say though, when Mono will reach the main grid. No expecations?
[15:55]  Squirrel Wood: Keep up the good work :)
[15:55]  Saijanai Kuhn: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Saijanai_Kuhn/Mono_issues shameless plug again
[15:56]  You: Thunder -- Our plan is to run this beta, increasing regions as havok4 winds down, and fix bugs.
[15:56]  Squirrel Wood: /bug
[15:56]  You: As we're doing this we have the opportunity to get feedback from you on what our next step should be
[15:56]  You: we have several options.
[15:57]  Saijanai Kuhn: Periapse, did you mention the link/sleep issues?
[15:57]  You: It can be "Improve LSL", or "Give me feature X for Mono", or do C# in Mono
[15:57]  Rex Cronon: i have request to make, can following page contain links to all the transcripts: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mono
[15:57]  Feynt Mistral wants Python most.
[15:57]  Saijanai Kuhn: LSL3
[15:58]  You: Rex, my bad, The https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mono_beta_FAQ
[15:58]  Squirrel Wood: Next step: Optimize Mono LSL as much as possible ;)
[15:58]  Feynt Mistral: C# can go die of embarrassment in Redmond.
[15:58]  You: should have links to all transcripts. It only has the first one
[15:58]  Daten Thielt: Peri, my jira on animation scripts
[15:58]  Daten Thielt: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1486
[15:58]  You: I'll post this one, and get the missing Wednesday transcript from Babbage if he still has it
[15:58]  Squirrel Wood: Scripts must contain nuts. :p
[15:59]  Feynt Mistral: I think that idea would be shot down like Eirinn's LOLcat suggestion.
[15:59]  You: Feynt -- lol, but Mono kens C# with ease, being all dotnet and all
[15:59]  Feynt Mistral: But Mono knows Python as well!
[15:59]  Feynt Mistral: And Java. >)
[15:59]  Feynt Mistral: My two favourite languages. C# is a sad copy of Java.
[16:00]  You: Feynt -- indeed. I'm going to also start a page, or part of the beta wiki page, for agenda suggestions.
[16:00]  Squirrel Wood: I would prefer that something like basic be added along with c(++/#) because it is easier for most people to grasp once more languages are scheduled to be added
[16:00]  Feynt Mistral: Oh yes, and another good reason to go Python: regular expressions. C# doesn't have those. >D
[16:01]  You: Sai -- nope - did not have time to bring any of those up. That's why I'm going to start using an agenda ;-)
[16:01]  Thunder Rahja: LSL is all I've really practiced in the past year.
[16:01]  Squirrel Wood: Mmmm. Agenda!
[16:01]  Saijanai Kuhn: LSL3. Same basic features as LSL2 but with sprinkles
[16:01]  Feynt Mistral misses regular expressions, and directly accessable arrays.
[16:01]  Feynt Mistral: Not to mention creating classes and using reference objects.
[16:01]  Squirrel Wood: LSL3 - half the features at twice the speed? ;)
[16:01]  Saijanai Kuhn: arrays, common library, better string handling
[16:02]  Saijanai Kuhn: reference objects are forbidden unnless they are going to fit in that 64K memory
[16:02]  Squirrel Wood: yes! arrays would be most welcome
[16:02]  You: I'm going to need to log back into the real world now.
[16:02]  Feynt Mistral cried while making his latest program because LSL lists are torture. T.T
[16:02]  Saijanai Kuhn: matrix operations besides rotations
[16:03]  Squirrel Wood: have fun ^^
[16:03]  Rex Cronon: bye peri
[16:03]  Saijanai Kuhn: take care
[16:03]  You: Thanks a lot for showing up and contributing
[16:03]  Feynt Mistral: Night Periapse.
[16:03]  Daten Thielt: byebye
[16:03]  APinkSwan Beauchamp: Thank you for your time and information.
[16:03]  Squirrel Wood: thanks for having us :)
[16:03]  Feynt Mistral: Be sure to pass my notecard along to Babbage. >D
[16:03]  Daten Thielt: and have some one look at my jira!
[16:03]  Daten Thielt: XD
[16:03]  You: I'll reenable scripts before I leave, and then copy the transcript to the https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mono_beta_FAQ
[16:03]  You: page
[16:04]  Squirrel Wood: Yay!
[16:04]  Squirrel Wood: And I'll make mono run really slow again ^^
[16:04]  Feynt Mistral: Heh
[16:04]  You: Have a great weekend, cheers!
[16:04]  Feynt Mistral: Night.
[16:04]  Rex Cronon: u 2
[16:04]  Squirrel Wood: and I'm talking reeeeeeeeallly slooooooooooooooow
[16:04]  Saijanai Kuhn: hooray, Squirrel. Wil help my benchmarking