Open Source Meeting/2009-02-26

• [14:01] Rob Linden: Anodyne: by all means
• [14:01] Rob Linden: was looking away for a sec
• [14:01] Anodyne Anatra: Thanks Rob :)
• [14:01] Rob Linden: bummer....looks like I forgot to clear the agenda from last week
• [14:02] Regeane Debevec: ^o.o^
• [14:02] Thickbrick Sleaford: I guess that means nobody had anything to add
• [14:02] Rob Linden: std disclaimer: the transcript for this meeting will be posted on wiki.secondlife.com, so keep that in mind as you type
• [14:03] Rob Linden: aforementioned agenda: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda
• [14:03] Robin Cornelius: has been busy with paid work so the sl stuff has been minimal recently
• [14:03] Rob Linden: understandable
• [14:03] Aimee Trescothick: yeah, I'm in the same position
• [14:03] Aimee Trescothick: damn people keep giving me money
• [14:03] Aimee Trescothick: lol
• [14:03] Rob Linden: we were noticing in our patch triage that the inflow has been slower
• [14:04] Anodyne Anatra: Thata's almost never bad, Aimee :)
• [14:04] Aimee Trescothick:  ;)
• [14:04] Soft Linden: Worse problems to have, for sure
• [14:04] Rob Linden: anyone else here doing work with the viewer?
• [14:05] Rob Linden: I guess one topic from last week to wrap up on: group to announce this meeting occurring
• [14:05] Aimee Trescothick: wonders if soft needs to invest in a mirror ;)
• [14:06] Regeane Debevec: Oh noes D:>
• [14:06] Soft Linden: ha :>
• [14:06] Aimee Trescothick: bring back the dynamic reflection code :D
• [14:06] Thickbrick Sleaford: your message in openSL just went through
• [14:06] Thickbrick Sleaford: lol, and the other group two
• [14:06] Rob Linden: I'm just going to post to both SL Open Source discussion and OpenSL (like I just did)
• [14:07] Rob Linden: (when I think of it...or someone else does
• [14:07] Rob Linden: I suppose if I had to choose, I'd stick with OpenSL as being the older group
• [14:07] Rob Linden: anyway, enough administrivia
• [14:08] Rob Linden: back to my original question: viewer work
• [14:08] Robin Cornelius: I've imported some extra patches in to my build one
• [14:09] Robin Cornelius: the most interesting is the grids.xml one where the choice of login grids in set in the grids.xml file
• [14:09] Rob Linden: ah, righto
• [14:09] Robin Cornelius: looses all jir anumbers
• [14:09] Rob Linden: I was just about to ask that....do you keep a public list somewhere? sounds like "no"
• [14:09] Robin Cornelius: VWR-7531
• [14:09] Soft Linden: VWR-7531
• [14:09] Rob Linden: (at least, of the jira numbers
• [14:09] Robin Cornelius: i *try* to keep the jira number in my patch description
• [14:10] Robin Cornelius: any news on that jira? the last LL comments seem to imply rewrite is happening now
• [14:10] Soft Linden: I'm looking now...
• [14:11] Soft Linden: It's not imported, but it does relate to some work that a Linden is doing on the login screen for another initiative.
• [14:11] Soft Linden: I'd be surprised if it didn't go in in one form or another. But that could still be some months out.
• [14:12] Rob Linden: yeah, i noted your rebasing work
• [14:12] Robin Cornelius: what happened to the web based login? is that ever going to happen again? or has stuff changed?
• [14:12] Kitto Flora: thinks its a great mod, VWR-7531.
• [14:12] Robin Cornelius: i see its still in the code base but #if def'd out
• [14:13] Robin Cornelius: Oh whist i'm on trivial issues,hehe, when you pass the login page the custom viewer channel, it does not display the nice login background images, in fact it displays a blank screen with just the grid starts in the corner
• [14:13] Soft Linden: Who would be the right one to ask about the status - Tess?
• [14:14] Soft Linden: Actually - AWG meeting could be a good place to find out about both web login and VWR-7531
• [14:14] Aimee Trescothick: heh, yeah, I fixed mine to give the ones from the main viewer as I was missing the nice christmas images lol
• [14:15] Robin Cornelius: yea i overrode that and actualy modded 7531 to have a user setable page in grids.xml so osgrid etc shows something approprate
• [14:15] Soft Linden: Or the current odd one. Ghost-lit cleavage + fish.
• [14:15] Evil Titler: v2: Surreal Gothly has removed a locked item! Cheat! Cheat!
• [14:15] Aimee Trescothick: yeah, that one's a bit scary
• [14:15] Aimee Trescothick: I was thinking of changing it back :D
• [14:16] Rob Linden: I don't imagine we'd be moving to the web-based stuff before some of the dust settles on the mmox@ IETF work
• [14:16] Rob Linden: (https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/MMOX )
• [14:16] Robin Cornelius: and the login can now do LLSD instead of the old xmlrpc so i guess things have refactored
• [14:17] Soft Linden: The mmox mailing list has become very active, if any aren't on it btw.
• [14:17] Rob Linden: yeah, beware....it makes sldev@ look lke a monthly newsletter
• [14:17] Rob Linden: it's a firehose of traffic right now
• [14:17] Aimee Trescothick: sldev has seemed pretty quiet recently
• [14:18] Aimee Trescothick: I guess that's where it all went :D
• [14:18] Robin Cornelius: yea i'm not keeping up with it all
• [14:18] Rob Linden: yeah, we prefer to spend our time debating the merits of various spoken languages
• [14:18] Rob Linden:  :)
• [14:18] Aimee Trescothick: lmao
• [14:18] Robin Cornelius: plus we have AWG group IM all day as well, i get no work done anymore
• [14:19] Aimee Trescothick: I thought spoken languages were obsolete now?
• [14:19] Robin Cornelius: and the jabber mmox@itef
• [14:19] Soft Linden: I saw that mentioned - the jabber group actually picked up?
• [14:19] Robin Cornelius: Ok another quick question. the SSL cert with the viewer, is that a self signed one still?
• [14:20] Rob Linden: Soft: it was pretty active the last time I looked, but I haven't looked in a while
• [14:20] Geneko Nemeth: ...Squee?
• [14:20] Rob Linden: SSL cert....I'm not sure
• [14:20] Robin Cornelius: i'm seeing an isolated but reproducable case of the login failing due to curl throwing up at the https stage
• [14:21] Rob Linden: I *think* it might be
• [14:21] Robin Cornelius: on a Debian box
• [14:21] Soft Linden: I'd toss that question to sldev. I can think of two people, one of which should be able to answer it. I'll point them at it.
• [14:21] Robin Cornelius: its a standalone build so its something on the Debian curl/ssl default config screwing stuff
• [14:21] Robin Cornelius: the log is pasted to http://jira.byteme.org.uk:8080/browse/OMVV-12, if anyone is interested
• [14:22] Rob Linden: yeah, soft is right....that's a good sldev@ question
• [14:22] Soft Linden: Regarding whether it's a self-signed cert - not regarding the failures
• [14:22] Robin Cornelius: hmm i guess i can run a command line openssl against it to print the sig info anyway
• [14:24] Rob Linden: anyone else considered doing dev work on the viewer?
• [14:24] Rob Linden: I guess that's another way of saying "what brings you all here?"
• [14:25] Soft Linden: Actually, I'd be curious too - how many of you are running alternate viewers?
• [14:25] Thickbrick Sleaford: I have _considered_...
• [14:25] Soft Linden: I'm wondering if there are any specific features you think they've got that have matured to where they should be in the main viewer too.
• [14:25] Kitto Flora: For everywhere other than SL I use Hippo Viewer, but its getting old. Am curious if SL viwere will add necessary features
• [14:26] Soft Linden: Necessary features?
• [14:26] Pat69 Munro: I like the Kristen Shadow viewer :)
• [14:26] Kitto Flora: Well - VWR-7531 is one such. Ability to select grid. Its the main reason that I use Hippo
• [14:27] Soft Linden: Yeah. That's got to happen on the command line right now. Pretty inelegant.
• [14:27] Aimee Trescothick: the alt-avatars login patch I use a lot
• [14:27] Soft Linden: That's the pick-list of recent logins?
• [14:27] Aimee Trescothick: yeah
• [14:27] Aimee Trescothick: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-6891
• [14:27] Kitto Flora: Aonther thing thats coming along is RealXtend - if SL does not include, they fall behind again.
• [14:28] Soft Linden: Ah thanks, was trying to dig that up.
• [14:28] Soft Linden: What specifically from RealXtend?
• [14:28] Robin Cornelius: vwr-6891 that one can cause a login fail for some reason, with no names cached, when you type on in you get some unable to connect to grid
• [14:28] Kitto Flora: Mesh Avatars
• [14:28] Aimee Trescothick: oh right, interesting, hadn't noticed your comment on there
• [14:29] Thickbrick Sleaford: not exactly a viewer, but I just noticed http://code.google.com/p/par/ which seems to have some stuff that I think should be in the viewer if it's not outdated
• [14:30] Thickbrick Sleaford: (I mean the crash prevention stuff there)
• [14:31] Soft Linden: For those, it's better to actually fix the crashes
• [14:31] Soft Linden: Pretty cool approach that, though
• [14:32] Thickbrick Sleaford: well, that sort of what I meant - to look at it as a list of inputs to sanitize
• [14:33] Rob Linden: yeah, I can understand the appeal of that
• [14:33] Rob Linden: what brings other people here?
• [14:34] Dale Glass: been wanting to get back to development for a while now. Hi btw :-)
• [14:34] Aimee Trescothick: came for the buffet
• [14:34] Soft Linden: welcome back :>
• [14:34] Dale Glass: thanks :-)
• [14:34] Geneko Nemeth: Just... plain bored? And interested in what's in stock.
• [14:34] Rob Linden: yes, what Soft said
• [14:35] Soft Linden: Sort of an odd day - lots of newcomers, some of the regulars missing. It's normally a bit more hectic than this.
• [14:35] Anodyne Anatra: I am brand new to working with the client code. In fact, at this point, I have opened a single file I diddn't need to, to get it to build. I am hoping to first, get my arms around the process... where to go to get questions answered, etc. I still have a fair amount of reading to do in the wiki... but when I saw that this meeting takes place regularly, I decided to attend.
• [14:35] Rob Linden: I saw Pat69 mention the Kirsten viewer: hopefully we'll get the shadow stuff out there soon
• [14:36] Soft Linden: The shadow work is actually in trunk right now - disabled by default.
• [14:36] Rob Linden: I'm a little surprised Kirsten was the only one who incoroprated it. we published that code a long time ago
• [14:36] Soft Linden: At this rate, it's likely to appear (disabled) in the 1.23 viewer. Though it may not yet be set up to support all the hardware it eventually will.
• [14:36] Aimee Trescothick: would if I had hardware that could make use of them :)
• [14:37] Robin Cornelius: Rob, a lot of us don't have hardware to even enable it to test
• [14:37] Rob Linden: yeah, I guess that makes sense
• [14:37] Aimee Trescothick: new work laptop will run them, though extremely slow, I do most of my dev work on the Mac though
• [14:37] Soft Linden: I think that 8800-level nvidia cards and some ATI cards are being completed first, esp on Windows and Linux. And once it's working well, other platforms/cards get support.
• [14:37] Gonta Maltz: it was satisfying to see the a few of the larger features (slim, shadows) in the trunk
• [14:38] Pat69 Munro: Cool, all you really need to run it is a 8800 card, that's a base spec games card nowdays :)
• [14:38] Evil Titler: v2: Surreal Gothly needs a new title! To set it, anyone may say the text on /69. Surreal is not able to change it.
• [14:38] Kitto Flora: /
• [14:38] Evil Titler: v2: Soft Linden has set a new title for Surreal Gothly! Surreal will have to live with this until the next chance for it to be changed.
• [14:38] Robin Cornelius: Any other movmements on stereo support
• [14:38] Kitto Flora: 7900 wont do shadows?
• [14:39] Geneko Nemeth: Aww too slow.
• [14:39] Robin Cornelius: or should i say anagraphical projection
• [14:39] Rob Linden: Robin: we had a conversation about that earlier today....we're trying to figure out a realistic path for that code to make it in
• [14:39] Aimee Trescothick: 7900 will do shadows if you put it on your desk with a really really bright light above it
• [14:40] Dale Glass: I'm trying to get back to my viewer now. I prefer to concentrate on my own work, so wouldn't merge shadows, but I'll try to update the stereo patch I had in it
• [14:40] Robin Cornelius: i had Dales version working but its too much of a moving target to maintain
• [14:40] Soft Linden: Updating the stereo patch would be awesome
• [14:40] Pat69 Munro: So I can turn on Shadows in the RC somewhere?
• [14:40] Robin Cornelius: and the updates that gave occured have all been platform specific, the last buch is very windows focused
• [14:40] Soft Linden: I'm not sure how much the ongoing deferred rendering work conflicts with the stereo patch - anyone tried the two together?
• [14:40] Dale Glass: I got a 3D monitor, I want to get it working with that
• [14:41] Robin Cornelius: Pat, the shadows are not yet in an RC but are in the public trunk svn branch
• [14:41] Soft Linden: Pat69 - not the RC. You'd have to build from the trunk branch.
• [14:41] Thickbrick Sleaford: a (long-ish) while ago someone said they are working on screen space ambient occlusion. any idea if that's included in shadow draft?
• [14:42] Soft Linden: Yes.
• [14:42] Rob Linden: yup, that was Celierra Darling who did that work
• [14:42] Soft Linden: That work is included in that branch. I don't know if it's enabled on enabling deferred rendering, or if's a different setting.
• [14:42] Thickbrick Sleaford: ooh, cool!
• [14:42] Soft Linden: Is there a wiki page on enabling deferred, etc?
• [14:42] Soft Linden: If not, that would be another good one for sldev to collect info. I know a lot of people are using it.
• [14:42] Soft Linden: An awful lot of snapshots are appearing on flickr, etc.
• [14:43] Soft Linden: Searches like "second life shadows" are pretty rewarding.
• [14:43] Gonta Maltz: ambient occlusion is on by default when using the deferred pipeline
• [14:43] Robin Cornelius: as cool as the Nimble clouds though?
• [14:43] Geneko Nemeth: Not that cool...
• [14:44] Geneko Nemeth: but if I remember correctly, SSAO was from last year's Summer of Code project.
• [14:44] Geneko Nemeth: And *that*'s pretty cool.
• [14:44] Soft Linden: Yes
• [14:44] Robin Cornelius: ah was it? i did wonder what happened to the SoC stuff
• [14:45] Soft Linden: A lot of us are really hoping we can do more with Celierra!
• [14:45] Rob Linden: Geneko: re: Google Summber of Code. correct
• [14:45] Rob Linden: Summer that is
• [14:45] Aimee Trescothick: yeah, with that sort of contribution coming in we need the other three seasons too
• [14:47] Geneko Nemeth: I wonder if I could do something in this year's GSoC? Even if I don't have any experience with working with something as big as the viewer.
• [14:48] Rob Linden: Geneko: possibly. We'll probably be applying again, though I think I saw somewhere they're scaling it back a little
• [14:48] Rob Linden: ...so we might not get a slot....we'll see
• [14:48] Rob Linden: but we have our own internship program as well. I think there's something on our jobs website about that
• [14:48] Free Radar: HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
• [14:49] Geneko Nemeth: US, UK and Singapore only>
• [14:49] Geneko Nemeth: *?
• [14:49] Geneko Nemeth: shrugs
• [14:50] Rob Linden: yeah, that's probably correct
• [14:51] Rob Linden: only so many countries we operate in
• [14:51] Rob Linden: anyone have anything else they want to bring up (or anything that got glossed over from earlier)?
• [14:52] Rob Linden: (where's my cricket sound)
• [14:53] Soft Linden: May be an early finish today :>
• [14:53] Rob Linden: yeah, I think so
• [14:53] Dale Glass: I have a cricket sound on my alt if you'd like one ;-)
• [14:53] Geneko Nemeth: No, there's always something to talk about!
• [14:53] Aimee Trescothick: blows across a tumbleweed
• [14:53] Rob Linden: going once....
• [14:53] Geneko Nemeth: For example, put Dale and UXIG together and you get an avatar scanner.
• [14:54] Dale Glass: why together?
• [14:54] Dale Glass: I already have an avatar scanner
• [14:54] Rob Linden: are you saying we should incorporate Dale himself in our viewer? ;-)
• [14:54] Geneko Nemeth: But it looks big and husky.
• [14:54] Dale Glass: I don't mind if other people use the code of course
• [14:55] Dale Glass: well if you have a list of things wrong with it, please send to dale@daleglass.net
• [14:55] Robin Cornelius: No complaints here
• [14:55] Dale Glass: I'm trying to get a new version released, ideas are appreciated
• [14:55] Robin Cornelius: works fine
• [14:56] Robin Cornelius: Dale a quick idea, disable Kick,Freeze etc when you don't have permisisons, but i can see how that would get messy on a sim wide scanner with parcel ACL look ups and group lists etc
• [14:57] Rob Linden: anything else for Dale or the rest of us?
• [14:58] Feallight Hellershanks: nothing that I can think of :-)
• [14:58] Rob Linden: alrighty....thanks all!
• [14:58] Anodyne Anatra: Rob, thank you for letting me sit in.
• [14:58] Robin Cornelius: See you all next time, bye!
• [14:58] Feallight Hellershanks: thanks for letting me sit in too
• [14:58] Soft Linden: Thanks for showing, al!
• [14:58] Feallight Hellershanks: sorry i was late, will be ontime next time
• [14:58] Aimee Trescothick: waves
• [14:59] Rob Linden: Anodyne: pubic meeting open to all...you're welcome anytime!
• [14:59] Rob Linden: bye all
• [14:59] Thickbrick Sleaford: see you people
• [14:59] Kitto Flora: Byebye all