Open Source Meeting/2010-05-13

Agenda Thursday, 13 May 2010

1. Weekly Snowglobe update - Merov Linden
2. Should we do a SL7B expo, promote snowglobe, and try to get some more developers? (Robin Cornelius)
3. Issues 1-5 on the list below were introduced by r3349 (a merge from viewer-external).
   • What was up there?
   • How do we avoid that in the future? (Do we have to, or is it ok to break trunk?)
     • (Feature branches! Feature branches! Feature branches! --Boroondas Gupte 20:47, 13 May 2010 (UTC))
4. Question: What on earth, or in Second Life, is the 'feature' I am killing in SNOW-652 good for?
5. Regular posting of snowglobe usage stats. Will this help guide the direction of development?

If we run out of topics before the end of the meeting, we'll triage Snowglobe or Open Source specific Jira Issues from the list below.

Jira Issues

1. SNOW-649 Changeset 3349 added unit test to llplugin but forgot LL_TESTS, resulting in a build failure in lltut.cpp
2. SNOW-650 Tries to build pulseaudio when pulseaudio not found.
3. SNOW-651 Standalone build failure r3349, cmake error on SLPlugin
4. SNOW-654 Bulding of integration_tests when not needed
5. SNOW-658 Notifier Issue Since [sldev-commits] r3349
6. Unscheduled SNOW issues triage: would be good to go with the community through those and decide for some what we should take immediately (2.0 or 1.4) or later.

Transcript

[13:50]	Boroondas Gupte:	hi Ellla
[13:51]	Boroondas Gupte:	bbl
[13:51]	Ellla McMahon:	Hello :)
[13:51]	Ardy Lay:	Hi
[13:53]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	hey ardy
[13:59]	Ardy Lay:	Hi Aimee
[13:59]	Aimee Linden:	HI
[13:59]	Aimee Linden:	afk for a mo
[13:59]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	hey amiee
[14:00]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	yo tech
[14:00]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I just tried http texture on aditi. It work, but is hard to stress it. They took out 90% of the prims around Morris.
[14:00]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Its nothing but empty fields around Morris.
[14:01]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Hi merov
[14:01]	Robin Cornelius:	Hi
[14:01]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	hey tech i tried the pathc in SNOW-654 to no avail i still build all tests and run them
[14:01]	JIRA-helper:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-654 [#SNOW-654] Bulding of integration_tests when not needed.
[14:01]	Techwolf Lupindo:	You looking fine today. :-)
[14:01]	Ardy Lay:	Why does Merov have pink hair?
[14:01]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	hey robin
[14:01]	Merov Linden:	Hi guys
[14:01]	Robin Cornelius:	Wolf did you add -DLL_TESTS:BOOL=OFF to develop.py
[14:01]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	hye merov
[14:01]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hi Merov
[14:01]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Wolfpup, -DLL_TESTS:BOOL=FALSE?
[14:02]	Ardy Lay:	Hmm... Guess his appearence didn't load for me.
[14:02]	Robin Cornelius:	FALSE,OFF all the same to cmake
[14:02]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	no i had to copy and paste the cmake file
[14:02]	Merov Linden:	k, time to start
[14:02]	Merov Linden:	Agenda, as always: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Meeting/Agenda
[14:02]	Ardy Lay:	Oh fudge, I forgot to add something to the agenda.
[14:02]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	and SNOW-658 is a pain
[14:02]	JIRA-helper:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-658 [#SNOW-658] Notifier Issue Since [sldev-commits] r3349
[14:02]	Merov Linden:	go ahead Ardy
[14:02]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Ardy, it not too late. Add it.
[14:03]	Merov Linden:	Good agenda indeed
[14:04]	Merov Linden:	First, quick update on what I've done
[14:04]	Merov Linden:	this week
[14:04]	Opensource Obscure:	/me crashed multiple times by opening chat history on both Win & Linux. If anyone has seen that or has info about JIRA please IM him.
[14:04]	Merov Linden:	I created a looong spreadsheet of all 1.x commits and if we should or not port to 2.0
[14:05]	Merov Linden:	I wanted to share it on the public wiki but had problem uploading it :/
[14:05]	Robin Cornelius:	gogole docs
[14:05]	Boroondas Gupte:	or send it to me and I'll make a wiki table from it
[14:05]	Merov Linden:	Well, I may do that in the end, did other Lindens shared google docs externally
[14:05]	Merov Linden:	?
[14:05]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	i now have VS2005PRO to build with
[14:05]	Merov Linden:	/me doesn't know
[14:05]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Merov, I created a jira and checked my contrubitation that was comminted to 1.x made to 2.0 and made a patch updated the doc/contrubations.txt of the ones that made it ok.
[14:06]	Opensource Obscure:	i think yes. i will look it up now
[14:06]	Boroondas Gupte:	I think CT (community translations) used Google docs at one time.
[14:06]	Boroondas Gupte:	Issue is, one needs a google account to edit.
[14:06]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	/me < found a source for the dvd and it includes all msdn documents
[14:06]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I think everyone has a g-mail account by now. :-)
[14:06]	Boroondas Gupte:	I don't
[14:06]	Aimee Linden:	should be no problem to world share a single google doc
[14:06]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	i know i have a google account
[14:07]	Opensource Obscure:	Josh did it : http://docs.google.com/present/view?id=0AfAytYlNCPECZGZ2M24yMl8yN2N0OGJueGNy&hl=en
[14:07]	Merov Linden:	k, I'll share it "public" then
[14:07]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	you can set a google doc be readalble without the need to log in even.
[14:07]	Merov Linden:	I'm 75% through
[14:07]	Boroondas Gupte:	75% of the issues?
[14:08]	Merov Linden:	the good news is that there isn't too many tricky ones to port
[14:08]	Merov Linden:	75% of the 1.x commits
[14:08]	Boroondas Gupte:	cool
[14:08]	Merov Linden:	the semi bad news (semi 'cause not unexpected) is that some of the "big" features are not going to be piece of cakes
[14:08]	Robin Cornelius:	i'm rapidly catching up too so should be able to do the socks 5 stuff and my other odds and ends soon
[14:09]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	i just hope they do not 'break' the viewer and worse that R3349 did
[14:09]	Merov Linden:	namely: SOCKS5, OPG Login, Translation features (SNOW-93)
[14:09]	JIRA-helper:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-93 [#SNOW-93] Automatic language translation of chat messages
[14:09]	Merov Linden:	I think what I should do next (once done with the spreadsheet and sharing it_
[14:10]	Merov Linden:	is to create a JIRA for each port task
[14:10]	Merov Linden:	then we can all merely through it
[14:10]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Some have been created, so need to check for that first.
[14:10]	Boroondas Gupte:	yeah
[14:10]	Merov Linden:	I'm feeling pretty confident actually after looking at most of them
[14:11]	Merov Linden:	Techwolf: yes, I'm doing that at the same time, i.e. referencing those that are already ported with their JIRA and commit
[14:11]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	woner if it might be a good idea to make a meta issue for source codeing with sub tasks for the different OS's
[14:12]	Merov Linden:	source coding? what do you mean
[14:12]	Merov Linden:	/me doesn't know of any other coding but source...
[14:12]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	for those that are doing their own compileing
[14:12]	Merov Linden:	o, a meta issue for build issues
[14:13]	Merov Linden:	yes
[14:13]	Techwolf Lupindo:	SNOW-643 is one that allready created for porting a feature to 2.x
[14:13]	Merov Linden:	please do, this is a good thing
[14:13]	JIRA-helper:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-643 [#SNOW-643] Water flickers and disappears in patches (Snowglobe 2.0 clone of VWR-12984)
[14:13]	Techwolf Lupindo:	/me catches up to chat.
[14:13]	Merov Linden:	cool, thanks Techwolf
[14:13]	Boroondas Gupte:	Dunno, we already have the "source code" component. Wouldn't a META be redundant, here?
[14:14]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	ok ill work on geting it up with sub issues for the different operating ssystems and such
[14:14]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I/We just found a build problem with gcc 4.4.3.
[14:14]	Merov Linden:	well, "source code" cover picky issues related to code style for instance, not necessarily build issues
[14:14]	Boroondas Gupte:	ah, ic
[14:14]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I've been using that for my build fixes patches. re:source code.
[14:14]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	also the difference in compilers
[14:15]	Merov Linden:	ok, that's for my update on this
[14:15]	Merov Linden:	also, not on the agenda but something I worked on: we hired someone to be robla's replacement!
[14:15]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	If you have a bunch of windows CMake patches, for example, it makes sense to group them somehow.
[14:15]	Merov Linden:	I'm super excited by that :)
[14:15]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	im running three different ones on my system but can only get a successful build in one of them
[14:15]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	o/
[14:16]	Merov Linden:	can't tell his name yet, I think it's better if he introduces himself but he should be here next week!
[14:16]	Boroondas Gupte:	quick interlude question: you're goin' to update https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Source_downloads , right, Merov? (There was a question on the Talk page)
[14:16]	Nicky Perian:	afk puppies are bossing me to feed them
[14:16]	Merov Linden:	/me checks Boroondas link
[14:17]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	mine dose that when im hosting an even in the mornings nicky
[14:17]	Merov Linden:	o yes! Boroondas
[14:17]	Opensource Obscure:	great news Merov
[14:17]	Boroondas Gupte:	indeed :-)
[14:17]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	Borrondas: those are files that went missing in the great S3 purge?
[14:17]	Boroondas Gupte:	yeah
[14:17]	Merov Linden:	haven't had time yet but I email opensource-dev about it (as you know I'm sure)
[14:18]	Merov Linden:	definitely next on my list of things to do (after the big scrub of 1.x port)
[14:18]	Boroondas Gupte:	Ah, that was on the ML, then. I searched the Meeting archives and couldn't find it :-P
[14:18]	Boroondas Gupte:	I knew you mentioned it somewhere ...
[14:18]	Merov Linden:	That was as an answer to someone who complained about not finding the 1.23 bundles
[14:19]	Merov Linden:	k, next on the agenda
[14:19]	Merov Linden:	SL7B, Question from Robin
[14:19]	Merov Linden:	or rather, proposal from Robin
[14:20]	Merov Linden:	I'd say: yes, yes and yes... We need to drum around so more devs join for sure
[14:20]	Boroondas Gupte:	I like the idea, but another thing that'll eat time I don't have :-P
[14:20]	Merov Linden:	Is that a good venue for this though?
[14:20]	Aimee Linden:	sounds a great idea
[14:20]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I like the idea. But what to put on display?
[14:20]	Robin Cornelius:	opensim were there last year as were other viewers i thought
[14:20]	Aimee Linden:	fits well with the SL7B theme too
[14:20]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	i know that feeling boroondas
[14:20]	Merov Linden:	/me hasn't be active in SLxB in the past
[14:21]	Robin Cornelius:	Aimee no Fic Messenger this year please
[14:21]	Aimee Linden:	LOL
[14:21]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Robin, care to point to a referece for those of us that are wondering....like me. :-)
[14:21]	Merov Linden:	Well,now that we have someone to replace robla, that sounds like a good project for him to get to know the community
[14:21]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	/me agrees with techwolf
[14:21]	Merov Linden:	and get to be known by it :)
[14:22]	Aimee Linden:	very much so
[14:22]	Robin Cornelius:	cool so how do we proceed
[14:22]	Ardy Lay:	Hehe, Merov+
[14:22]	Robin Cornelius:	should i place an application now?
[14:22]	Merov Linden:	I'll put that on his lap first thing Monday :)
[14:22]	Robin Cornelius:	great, he can ping me directly if he wants as well i'm happy to help
[14:23]	Merov Linden:	actually, in general, this is a good subject: what are the good venues to recruit devs? promote the existence of Snowglobe?
[14:23]	Merov Linden:	IW? RL?
[14:23]	Techwolf Lupindo:	/.
[14:23]	Techwolf Lupindo:	/me chuckels
[14:24]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	i saw some where in the opensource-dev mail about trying to update to newer boost files any thing about that
[14:24]	Merov Linden:	/me is still a puff of smoke on his own clint
[14:24]	Merov Linden:	*client
[14:24]	Ardy Lay:	Merov, you are not properly loaded for me either.
[14:24]	Merov Linden:	hold that thought Wolfpup
[14:24]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I think IW would be a good place. They need to be intrested in the SL to start with.
[14:24]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	I think snowglobe is pretty visible already, we just need to lower the various barrienrs for enty (easier building, more communicating, etc.)
[14:25]	Boroondas Gupte:	No worries, Merov, I see your pink hair.
[14:25]	Merov Linden:	actually, our stat show that Snowglobe daily use is at his historical high right now
[14:25]	Merov Linden:	and climbing...
[14:25]	Robin Cornelius:	+1 for making building easier, we have experienced devs pulling their hair at 2.X source compiles again
[14:25]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Waht version?
[14:25]	Ardy Lay:	What version(s)?
[14:25]	Merov Linden:	we're scratching our head as to why...
[14:25]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	robin ++
[14:25]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	requiring VC80 on windows is a pretty high barrier, it seems
[14:26]	Morgaine Dinova:	Well people will use anything to avoid Viewer2.0 ...
[14:26]	Merov Linden:	+1 on easy build requirements
[14:26]	Robin Cornelius:	VC90 is 99.9% complete it just needs my boost build to work
[14:26]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Yea...who did the easy build project?
[14:26]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	thick im running it in windows 7-32bit
[14:26]	Robin Cornelius:	Tech easybuild was done by cmake
[14:26]	Robin Cornelius:	err kitware cmakes creators
[14:26]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Ok.
[14:26]	Merov Linden:	o, I was not talking about that *easybuild* (one word) but, fair engouh
[14:27]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	just did as build and it fully built including the installer
[14:27]	Merov Linden:	that too... a mean to an end
[14:27]	Merov Linden:	we talked about it Tuesday I think
[14:27]	Merov Linden:	robla was the one handling the Kitware relationship
[14:27]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I was wondering it there was any effert to compleate that or keep going and get cmake to do everthing, incouding install.
[14:27]	Nicky Perian:	i still have webkit issues with vc90
[14:27]	Merov Linden:	I need to track who owns it now and revive this
[14:28]	Merov Linden:	Techwolf: that's what I'm trying to find out
[14:28]	Merov Linden:	+1
[14:28]	Robin Cornelius:	it was pretty much a fixed contract i though? that IMHO never quite met Roblas objectives
[14:28]	Techwolf Lupindo:	The more I work with the cmake files, the more it looks like someone was thinking C/C++ when they did the cmake files and its a spagattie mess now.
[14:29]	Merov Linden:	spagattie sounds bad indeed
[14:29]	Robin Cornelius:	i think too many people have added there own style to them
[14:29]	Techwolf Lupindo:	/me can't spell today....hehe
[14:29]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I've gotten so familaer with it now that I could finished up that project.
[14:29]	Aimee Linden:	cmake has evolved a lot since we started too
[14:30]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Yea.
[14:30]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	mabey the cmake files need to have a code guideline just like the c++ dose as far as formating gose
[14:30]	Merov Linden:	k, summary: investigate SL7B preso of SG (Robin may help), need to make build easier, easybuild to revive? (Merov)
[14:30]	Merov Linden:	that's good
[14:30]	Techwolf Lupindo:	And where to put the include statments. Right now, there is find quiltelly ON due to calling the same file about 20 times.
[14:30]	Merov Linden:	other venues IW where we should try to present? show ourselves?
[14:31]	Robin Cornelius:	i need more copy for my expo display in the order corner
[14:31]	Robin Cornelius:	i've got a rather poor SG display there
[14:31]	Morgaine Dinova:	Wasn't develop.py intended to disappear eventually once we moved to cmake? Seem to recall that from robla's days.
[14:31]	Merov Linden:	Morgaine: that was the goal of the easybuild project
[14:31]	Merov Linden:	indeed
[14:32]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Quiet a few .cmake files can be merged with other cmake files.
[14:32]	Boroondas Gupte:	actually, one *can* build without calling delelop.py, already now
[14:32]	Boroondas Gupte:	(I do that, because I want out-of-source-tree builds)
[14:32]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Some more .cmake files can be merged by using a marco subroute.
[14:33]	Merov Linden:	yeah, if you look into develop.py, there's a lot of fiddling around things that cmake should be able to script
[14:33]	Morgaine Dinova:	Sure, I just use "cmake . ; make". But I think the develop.py is called internally, isn't it?
[14:33]	Merov Linden:	but doesn't
[14:33]	Robin Cornelius:	i do not use develop.py either
[14:33]	Robin Cornelius:	Morgaine no
[14:33]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Boroondas, that what I do in my ebuilds. I build snowglobe and other client withOUT using devolpe.py
[14:33]	Merov Linden:	no develop.py calls cmake
[14:33]	Morgaine Dinova:	Oh that's cool. Why hasn't it disappeared then?
[14:33]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	boroondas that is true but you have to run develop.py at least once to get the project files for VS
[14:33]	Robin Cornelius:	other python scripts are used for download of package
[14:33]	Merov Linden:	as I said: some fiddling required
[14:34]	Boroondas Gupte:	Yeah, I'm not sure about the situation on Windows.
[14:34]	Merov Linden:	/me can't think of all the details right now
[14:34]	Boroondas Gupte:	Might be avoiding develop.py is easier on Linux.
[14:34]	Merov Linden:	I think I got so used to the build oddities on Mac and Windows that I don't see them anymore... <sigh/>
[14:34]	Morgaine Dinova:	Hehe
[14:34]	Robin Cornelius:	develop.py does do more on windows such as identify the VS version to use from registry calls then uses that to invoke cmake
[14:35]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	-*@ ROFL @*-
[14:35]	Robin Cornelius:	it also invokes vstool (for non express versions) that is also a nice helper, but camke could invoke
[14:35]	Aimee Linden:	we have build oddities? I thought everything else was weird in being so easy :D
[14:35]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	that is true robin
[14:35]	Techwolf Lupindo:	My ebuilds have gotten so smart that I forget some of the build oddies tooo.
[14:35]	Merov Linden:	k, let's try to move on a bit will we? :)
[14:36]	Morgaine Dinova:	Aimee: worth noting that nobody laughed :D
[14:36]	Robin Cornelius:	one issue is cmake cann't bootstrap itsself, so you always need to call cmake with at least a -G option and there were some other issues that Bill Hoffman discussed with us either here on on sl-dev
[14:36]	Merov Linden:	bunch of issues introduced by recent 2.02 merges
[14:36]	Merov Linden:	that's a *very good* topic
[14:36]	Merov Linden:	I'm having second thoughts on having done that merge...
[14:36]	Techwolf Lupindo:	All the patches that i've submitted was for fixes on new code.
[14:37]	Merov Linden:	really, may be I jumped the gun here
[14:37]	Merov Linden:	the situation:
[14:37]	Nicky Perian:	i get intermittent crashes with avatar attachments on 2.0.2
[14:37]	Merov Linden:	we now have an internal viewer-public repo that get exported to viewer-external every day
[14:37]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	i think i may have figured out the issue in SNOW-658
[14:37]	Merov Linden:	you can see the 2.0.2 dev progress daily which is a good thing
[14:38]	Merov Linden:	but I'm wondering if thinking SG 2.0 trunk to that was a good inded
[14:38]	Merov Linden:	*idea
[14:38]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	it has to do with some missing lines in the xml file
[14:38]	Robin Cornelius:	Merov are the commits triggering commit emails?
[14:38]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I got snowglobe lastest 2.x running and jsut ran it on aditi with http texture enabled. It works.
[14:39]	Merov Linden:	the export is Robin (the export is a commit to svn viewer-external)
[14:39]	Merov Linden:	anyway, my problem is that we get SG trunk now unstable with 2.0.2 viewer-public dev work
[14:39]	Nicky Perian:	how often is it synced to sg trunk?
[14:40]	Merov Linden:	Nicky: I do a weekly merge
[14:40]	Merov Linden:	IOW: viewer-external: daily sync to viewer-public, SG trunk: weekly sync to viewer-external
[14:41]	Merov Linden:	I'm questioning the wisdom of that last one
[14:41]	Merov Linden:	especially right now as I would like to finish the SG 1.x port and release a true SG2.0
[14:41]	Merov Linden:	2.0.1 is stable but 2.0.2 is not right now
[14:42]	Robin Cornelius:	we are also loosing cycles in a fighting of the build constantly
[14:42]	Nicky Perian:	yes
[14:42]	Nicky Perian:	++
[14:42]	Merov Linden:	yes, and 2.0.2 with all its add/remove of files didn't help...
[14:43]	Robin Cornelius:	it also hit gcc bugs on 4.4.3 ;-/
[14:43]	Merov Linden:	that's one of the problem: shouldn't we stabilize SG2.0 using 2.0.1 as a base?
[14:43]	Nicky Perian:	is there a revert?
[14:43]	Robin Cornelius:	can we branch?
[14:43]	Techwolf Lupindo:	There needs to be a stable 2.x to start off with, then svn can be unstable.
[14:43]	Boroondas Gupte:	Feature branches! Feature branches! Feature branches!
[14:43]	Merov Linden:	we can do whatever we feel we need to do
[14:43]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	i know it took nearly 45 min for it to process the SVN update when 3349 was posted
[14:44]	Robin Cornelius:	SG2 trunk could keep weekly sync, but we probably need a 2.X branch to spin a release out of
[14:44]	Merov Linden:	my personal favorite though would be not to branch but to revert those few 2.0.2 merges I did
[14:44]	Merov Linden:	stay put on 2.0.1, complete the 1.x merges and release SG 2.0
[14:44]	Merov Linden:	then merge viewer-external , whereever it is by then
[14:45]	Merov Linden:	better ideas?
[14:45]	Robin Cornelius:	isn't that a logical branch point though? or do you feel there is nothing gained with a SG Trunk as well as you can just look in viewer-external anyway ATM?
[14:45]	Boroondas Gupte:	that'b be a huge merge
[14:45]	Nicky Perian:	merov++
[14:45]	Merov Linden:	Well Boroondas, I'm doing those nerges *weekly* now
[14:46]	Merov Linden:	/me agonizes...
[14:46]	Merov Linden:	I saw that people are building off viewer-external anyway
[14:46]	Boroondas Gupte:	Feature branches have a major advantage: they could merge trunk regularly so once a feature is ready to get into trunk, that'd be almost a no-op.
[14:46]	Merov Linden:	folks in viewer land was surprised to see EXT bugs logged against 2.0.2 by resi :)
[14:46]	Nicky Perian:	maybe you could misplace yout to do list for a couple of weeks
[14:46]	Techwolf Lupindo:	/me adds another topic to the agenda on the wiki,
[14:47]	Ardy Lay:	V2 is still a rapidly moving target with unpredicatble trajectory changes. I make my patches against viewer-external right now as Snowglobe 2 seems to be missing some of the recent changes that make V2 almost tollerable for me.
[14:48]	Ardy Lay:	Those changes showed up VERY recently.
[14:48]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	heh, this is from IRC just now: <llNyx> 2.0.2 is our working model, things are changing everyday. sometimes stuff gets broken a bit
[14:48]	Merov Linden:	hmmm... so Ardy you'd be in teh camp of "bear the pain but jump to the end line now" rather than staggering the merges
[14:48]	Techwolf Lupindo:	EXT? I don't have access to that anymore.
[14:48]	Boroondas Gupte:	neither me
[14:49]	Ardy Lay:	Merov, I am not doing merges so I am obstaining from voting.
[14:49]	Merov Linden:	well, I'm ok to suffer through the merges *if* that makes *your* life easier as participants in the project
[14:49]	Boroondas Gupte:	I think it doesn't
[14:50]	Merov Linden:	but if it makes your life harder, that's not a good idea
[14:50]	Nicky Perian:	me neither
[14:50]	Merov Linden:	OK
[14:50]	Boroondas Gupte:	but it'd be nice if we could cherry-pick the stuff that doesn't break anything ;-)
[14:50]	Boroondas Gupte:	(not a good idea as long as we're on SVN)
[14:51]	Merov Linden:	well, that's another one
[14:51]	Merov Linden:	using hg
[14:51]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Is there any plans on moving to hg externially?
[14:51]	Merov Linden:	I've been using it internally a lot and come to really prefer its merge model
[14:51]	Merov Linden:	soooo much better....
[14:52]	Nicky Perian:	if we could somehow get 2.0.1 stuck stable?? then move on with the merges tha would allow both options
[14:52]	Ardy Lay:	I just don't seem to be able to follow the logic of developing against a stale tree, for some various definitions of stale. Sure, it's a pain when "upstream" makes changes that destabilize building and execution but I don't know how to handle that any better than you are now, with your own branch(es).
[14:52]	Merov Linden:	k, I think we converge then: rollback the 2.0.2 merges I did and stabilize trunk using 2.0.1
[14:53]	Merov Linden:	that won't change the daily 2.0.2 update on viewer-external though
[14:53]	Ardy Lay:	Okay
[14:53]	Merov Linden:	so you know what's happening and we make good on our promise of being a better open source project
[14:54]	Boroondas Gupte:	:-)
[14:54]	Merov Linden:	but for now, that'll make the SG2.0 project easier to manage with a reasonable release date...
[14:54]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	/me doesn't have an opinion on that, since he isn't using using 2.0 on a daily basis, and isn't merging anything.
[14:55]	Merov Linden:	Pfffew,,, Thanks guys, I really agonized on this
[14:55]	Merov Linden:	I'll emailed opensource-dev though before doing that as some other folks might disagree
[14:55]	Merov Linden:	or not like it
[14:55]	Merov Linden:	we've 5 minutes left only
[14:56]	Merov Linden:	I think we covered 3 with this decision of rollbacking
[14:56]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	i have not even though of working on the viewer-ext code sine im doing things in the sg v2 code
[14:56]	Merov Linden:	WolfPup:you can't commit on viewer-external
[14:57]	Nicky Perian:	merov, are there write ups for apache library build in windows?
[14:57]	Robin Cornelius:	kk well i can pospone this 2.0.2 vs GCC 4.4.3 fight for the moment then ;-)
[14:57]	Merov Linden:	no one can actually: it's supposed to be the exported copy of a pristine internal viewer-public repo
[14:57]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	as far as i knoe i can commit in sg either
[14:57]	Merov Linden:	keep it warm Robin :)
[14:57]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	can not thst is
[14:57]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	BTW, Yay Merov, first message to sldev-commits with internal commit messages included (committed to viewer-external)
[14:57]	Robin Cornelius:	Merov i' considering just not using 4.4.3
[14:57]	Merov Linden:	did pass?
[14:57]	Merov Linden:	/me checks
[14:57]	Robin Cornelius:	4.4.4 works for Aleric
[14:58]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	http://svn.secondlife.com/trac/linden/changeset/3357
[14:59]	Merov Linden:	nice!
[14:59]	Merov Linden:	that stupid script stuck its tongue to me twice...
[14:59]	Techwolf Lupindo:	Nice.
[14:59]	Techwolf Lupindo:	I use to have access to EXT. :-/
[15:00]	Boroondas Gupte:	very cool. Now if we could the commits themselves broken down.
[15:00]	Boroondas Gupte:	*could get
[15:00]	Merov Linden:	well, that's another one I'll work on: pushing the export automatically on commit
[15:01]	Boroondas Gupte:	o/
[15:01]	Merov Linden:	I need to discuss some things with CG before though
[15:01]	Merov Linden:	k, I've another meeting starting now
[15:02]	Merov Linden:	with my manager so better not make him wait...
[15:02]	Robin Cornelius:	BTW Oscar on beta grid is talking about 1.40 inc http-texture
[15:02]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	i got to switch grids for a meeting as well
[15:02]	Robin Cornelius:	thansk Merov
[15:02]	WolfPup Lowenhar:	that is where im heading now robin
[15:02]	Merov Linden:	I'll check what SNOW-652 is about
[15:02]	JIRA-helper:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-652 [#SNOW-652] APP URI to cause viewer to chat a specified message on a specified channel can be used to cause problems for others.
[15:02]	Merov Linden:	(o right, I remember now...)
[15:03]	Boroondas Gupte:	There was some spam on https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Source_Portal ... could we get that locked before this becomes an edit war?
[15:03]	Ardy Lay:	secondlife:///app/chat/0/SNOW-652
[15:03]	Ardy Lay:	I blocked that in my patches attached to that JIRA
[15:03]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	to click or not to click?
[15:03]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	SNOW-652
[15:03]	Boroondas Gupte:	:-P
[15:04]	Ardy Lay:	In V2 is has to be blocked in IM seperately so in two files.
[15:04]	Merov Linden:	Boroondas: who's that Eugene guy?
[15:05]	Boroondas Gupte:	no idea
[15:05]	Robin Cornelius:	ok night all, i need sleep!
[15:05]	Ardy Lay:	I have no clue what possible legitimate application that app uri might have, so I ask.
[15:05]	Boroondas Gupte:	Ardy, I can't imagine any.
[15:05]	Merov Linden:	I'll check Boroondas...
[15:05]	Merov Linden:	need to go now
[15:05]	Boroondas Gupte:	/me waves
[15:06]	Merov Linden:	see you Tuesday... with the new Open Source Director I hope :)
[15:06]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	see you
[15:06]	Aimee Linden:	bye!
[15:06]	Techwolf Lupindo:	darn...didnt' get to snowglobe stats agenda
[15:07]	Ardy Lay:	I left the structure for it in, just kinda made it a no-op so the thing doesn't open a location panel with invalid data in it.
[15:08]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	Techwolf, that was done by roblabot... maybe we can convince robla's replacment it's his job...
[15:09]	Techwolf Lupindo:	merov metching snowglobe useage is climbing. I was asking if they can up some usage stats.
[15:09]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	Robla had a setup that posted the stats daily to some mailing list
[15:10]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	https://lists.secondlife.com/pipermail/snowglobe-automails/2009-November/thread.html
[15:13]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	that wiki spam is weird
[15:13]	Boroondas Gupte:	it is
[15:13]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	it looks like he only did it to the open source portal page
[15:13]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	"custom term papers" lol
[15:14]	Boroondas Gupte:	hmm ... do you think I should let Eugene write my Semester Thesis for me?
[15:14]	Thickbrick Sleaford:	heh

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