Pyogp/Chat Logs/Daily Meeting/16 jul 2008
< Pyogp
Jump to navigation
Jump to search
The printable version is no longer supported and may have rendering errors. Please update your browser bookmarks and please use the default browser print function instead.
- [9:32] Saijanai Kuhn: Ah ha!
- [9:32] Infinity Linden: hola folks
- [9:33] Opensource Obscure: : )
- [9:33] Locklainn Linden: hi
- [9:33] Infinity Linden: an accident on hwy 17 almost made me seriously late
- [9:33] Enus Linden: glad you made it
- [9:33] Saijanai Kuhn: ouch, but you're ok?
- [9:33] JB Kraft: howdy folks :)
- [9:33] Infinity Linden: fortunately it wasn't too bad
- [9:34] Infinity Linden: so.. i'm pressed for time
- [9:34] Infinity Linden: and
- [9:34] Infinity Linden: a bit embarassed Ididn't do as much as i wanted to do yesterday
- [9:34] Infinity Linden: so
- [9:34] Infinity Linden: i think i'm going to skip myself
- [9:34] Enus Linden: i go i go!
- [9:34] Enus Linden: as i don't have much
- [9:34] Infinity Linden: and... anyone on #pyogp? is Tao coming?
- [9:35] Saijanai Kuhn: he online
- [9:35] Locklainn Linden: on his way
- [9:35] Infinity Linden: Enus.. we should probably wait for Tao
- [9:35] Locklainn Linden: he should go first
- [9:35] Enus Linden: i will
- [9:35] Locklainn Linden: when he comes on
- [9:35] Saijanai Kuhn: and I certainly hven't done anything
- [9:35] Locklainn Linden: says hes gotta be quick
- [9:35] Infinity Linden: he's a heavy lifer with respect to this projcet
- [9:35] Infinity Linden: yay! Tao's here!
- [9:35] Infinity Linden: i just mentioned i did next to nothing yesterday
- [9:36] Tao Takashi: I posted all I did to the list
- [9:36] Infinity Linden: and Enus called dibs on going next
- [9:36] Enus Linden: we;re communicating rather well on that list...
- [9:36] Enus Linden: so me: i created an internal jira, DEV-17910
- [9:36] Infinity Linden: krikey... that's what i get for going on a cereal jag with girlfriends last night instead of reading email
- [9:36] Tao Takashi: I try to as it's better than reading chatlogs
- [9:36] Enus Linden: it is literally composed of one wiord currently
- [9:36] Infinity Linden: yeah... probably a good idear
- [9:37] Locklainn Linden: nice
- [9:37] Enus Linden: i;'ll fix that today
- [9:37] Tao Takashi: if it's the right word...
- [9:37] Locklainn Linden: or phrase 'git r done'
- [9:37] Enus Linden: i also am speaking with sue and robla about how best to support pyogp on pjira
- [9:37] Enus Linden: git r dun is a fav of mine lol
- [9:37] Locklainn Linden: haha
- [9:37] Enus Linden: wrt pjira, we are debating having pyogp as a metaproject
- [9:38] Enus Linden: or as a component to an "open source" meta project
- [9:38] Enus Linden: i'll let you know how that turns out
- [9:38] Tao Takashi: we finish it in the meanwhile ;-)
- [9:38] Locklainn Linden: yep
- [9:38] Locklainn Linden: haha
- [9:38] Enus Linden: I also have most of a wiki structure proposal sketched out
- [9:38] Infinity Linden: i don't know that I care one way or another, so i'll keep my nose out of that debate
- [9:38] Enus Linden: and will circulate somehow later today
- [9:38] Infinity Linden: yay
- [9:38] Tao Takashi: cool
- [9:39] Locklainn Linden: ok
- [9:39] Infinity Linden: wikis are like totally cool
- [9:39] Tao Takashi: actually they suck ;-)
- [9:39] Infinity Linden: hmm... saying things in val-speak in SL doesn't really work too well
- [9:39] Enus Linden: and friday at 9:30 will be my 'office hours', a forum for a weekly pyogp status and other cool qa-y stuff as needed
- [9:39] Infinity Linden: hmm...
- [9:39] Tao Takashi: so do I do that ZCA stuff during that OH?
- [9:39] Infinity Linden: Tao was goinna do ZCA
- [9:39] Enus Linden: sounds appropriate
- [9:39] Infinity Linden: okay... cool
- [9:40] Tao Takashi: it depends on who is around. It would be good if it's mostly people who really want to work on it
- [9:40] Tao Takashi: and have looked at it
- [9:40] Infinity Linden: i gotta make sure it's on my Goog calendar
- [9:40] Locklainn Linden: yea
- [9:40] Tao Takashi: otherwise I expect chaos
- [9:40] Enus Linden: i'll setup an agenda page somewhere smometime
- [9:40] Locklainn Linden: exactly
- [9:40] Enus Linden: done
- [9:40] Infinity Linden: well... hopefully we won't pull as many folks as Zero's recent office horus
- [9:40] Enus Linden: (early on, it will be just us)
- [9:40] Tao Takashi: JB: Did you do Zope3 work, too?
- [9:40] Locklainn Linden: [1]
- [9:41] Enus Linden: unless sai pollutes the waters with mass spammage
- [9:41] JB Kraft: yes, been zoping for quite a while
- [9:41] Tao Takashi: right, Sai, please do not announce this too much ;-)
- [9:41] Tao Takashi: JB: Cool, so you can help me with explaining interfaces, utilities and adapters then? :)
- [9:41] Enus Linden: ty lock
- [9:41] Locklainn Linden: np
- [9:41] BigMike Bukowski: The entire crowd at zero's end's up making people trying to learn and catch up to be comepletly confused.
- [9:41] Infinity Linden: at least until we have something really cool to show off and the beta program is up and running
- [9:42] Infinity Linden: that is actually a good point
- [9:42] JB Kraft: sure, im just ctaching up at the moment, just got the code out of svn today
- [9:42] Tao Takashi: I still need the URL for OpenSim where I can call rez_avatar ;-)
- [9:42] Enus Linden: one request: is it possible to keep this status mtg limited to 30 minutes?
- [9:42] Tao Takashi: JB: well, it's more about the general principles as these are new to many
- [9:42] Tao Takashi: Enus: +1 :)
- [9:42] Enus Linden: what i've done/what i pan to do/blockers/issues, done.
- [9:42] JB Kraft: gotcha
- [9:42] Infinity Linden: i think the reason a lot of folks were bringing virtual pitchforks and torches was the idea that assets were going to freely flow across region domain boundaries
- [9:43] Infinity Linden: it would be nice to have code that demonstrates that we _don't_ do that
- [9:43] BigMike Bukowski: Yeah. That's what it seemed like.
- [9:43] Tao Takashi: ok, so we do the round?
- [9:43] Tao Takashi: or are we in the middle?
- [9:43] Infinity Linden: okay... yeah... lets' finihs the round
- [9:43] Enus Linden: tao, you're up
- [9:43] Tao Takashi: ok, so I am a bit blocked by that grok decision
- [9:43] Tao Takashi: I would like to get rid of my branch
- [9:44] Tao Takashi: besides that I refactored a bit on that branch
- [9:44] JB Kraft: what was the grok decision?
- [9:44] Enus Linden: lcok, did you review? scope is focused, seems to make sense to merge it
- [9:44] Tao Takashi: adding an Avatar class and that example high level API
- [9:44] Tao Takashi: JB: yes or no basically
- [9:44] Tao Takashi: actually not grok, but grokcore.component
- [9:44] Locklainn Linden: I looked at it a bit
- [9:44] Locklainn Linden: yea, that is the problem
- [9:44] Locklainn Linden: how much of grok is taken in
- [9:44] Locklainn Linden: but I guess with our Pyogp guidelines, thats not a problem haha
- [9:45] Tao Takashi: it's just those grok.Adapter superclasses and some directives like grok.name() and grok.context()
- [9:45] Tao Takashi: it basically replaces implements() and adapts()
- [9:45] Tao Takashi: and does all the registration for you
- [9:45] Infinity Linden: wait... does grok replace ZCA?
- [9:45] Tao Takashi: and grokcore.component is just the registration bit taken out of grok
- [9:45] Locklainn Linden: essentially, the unfamilair, (correct me if I'm wrong Tao), is allow you to register which utilities and adapters you suse
- [9:45] Tao Takashi: no, grok makes using ZCA easier
- [9:45] Infinity Linden: or layer beside / on top of it
- [9:45] Infinity Linden: okay
- [9:45] Infinity Linden: let's discuss that in email / irc
- [9:45] Tao Takashi: normally you register components in XML
- [9:46] Infinity Linden: oh oh
- [9:46] Infinity Linden: cool
- [9:46] JB Kraft: what does grok buy in this context, beyond base transport
- [9:46] Tao Takashi: with grok you don't need to
- [9:46] Infinity Linden: yeah... gets back to the whole "functionality vs. dependency" argument
- [9:46] Locklainn Linden: not using xml JB
- [9:46] Tao Takashi: it does enable easier registration of components without XML needed
- [9:46] Tao Takashi: so you don't need to switch context and files to register
- [9:46] Locklainn Linden: we need one, either xml, grok, or something, otherwise the modules themselves register their components
- [9:46] Infinity Linden: okay... i need to schedule a little time playing with it
- [9:46] Locklainn Linden: which is order dependent
- [9:46] Tao Takashi: I explained this a bit in part 4 of my ZCA tutorial
- [9:46] Infinity Linden: but let's move on
- [9:47] Infinity Linden: Lock?
- [9:47] Tao Takashi: can post the link later
- [9:47] Tao Takashi: and I checked in my agent domain stuff
- [9:47] Infinity Linden: (I think Open said he was just going to observe)
- [9:47] Infinity Linden: w00t!
- [9:47] Locklainn Linden: been writing a message template parser for the bodies of packets
- [9:47] Tao Takashi: but we can discuss this at some other point as it's far from finished
- [9:47] Tao Takashi: so Lock :)
- [9:47] Opensource Obscure: ( yes. i'm a learning lurker here )
- [9:47] Locklainn Linden: I've been writing a message template parser for the bodies of packets
- [9:47] Locklainn Linden: nearly finished
- [9:48] Locklainn Linden: Tao broke it today :)
- [9:48] Tao Takashi: that's what you get for helping out ;-)
- [9:48] Enus Linden: file a jira.
- [9:48] Locklainn Linden: for the better
- [9:48] Enus Linden: oh, wait...
- [9:48] Infinity Linden: lol
- [9:48] Tao Takashi: what does it return?
- [9:48] Locklainn Linden: haha
- [9:48] Locklainn Linden: dict of packets, which you can get their bodies out of
- [9:48] Locklainn Linden: and should be able to get the types of each of the data fields in the body
- [9:48] Infinity Linden: so... gonna keep on keepin' on with the parser?
- [9:48] Tao Takashi: btw, here I would like to see some doctest which explains interactively how to use it :)
- [9:49] Locklainn Linden: yes, I have been using unittest
- [9:49] Tao Takashi: maybe I write one
- [9:49] Locklainn Linden: not for this stuff so far
- [9:49] Locklainn Linden: but for the packet decoder/encoder
- [9:49] Locklainn Linden: i will write some tests
- [9:49] Tao Takashi: cool
- [9:49] Tao Takashi: how do you get the types?
- [9:49] Infinity Linden: hmm... just dawned on me that the message template is a great place to find which "resource bundles" should be defined first
- [9:49] Tao Takashi: Did you create your own classes or are they just names?
- [9:49] Locklainn Linden: strings, but now I need to convert to the actual data type
- [9:49] Tao Takashi: ok, ic
- [9:49] Infinity Linden: yeah... i'm a fan of having real types to work with too
- [9:50] Tao Takashi: and are you parsing actual packets or the message templates to python templates?
- [9:50] Infinity Linden: not just LLSD blobs floating around
- [9:50] Tao Takashi: maybe I just look at your tests :)
- [9:50] Locklainn Linden: haha
- [9:50] Locklainn Linden: I'll email out what its doing
- [9:50] Tao Takashi: cool
- [9:50] Infinity Linden: okay.. let's let Sai have his say
- [9:50] Locklainn Linden: and mayabe you can give me feedback on what you'd like to see it do
- [9:51] Tao Takashi: sure, will have a look at it
- [9:51] Infinity Linden: then talk more about it on #pyogp
- [9:51] Locklainn Linden: yep
- [9:51] Tao Takashi: or the list ;-)
- [9:51] Locklainn Linden: haha he chat-o-phobic
- [9:51] Infinity Linden: and... of course.. BigMike and JB if you want to join in
- [9:51] Tao Takashi: not really, it just takes more time and is harder to keep track of ;-)
- [9:51] Tao Takashi: anyway, next one :)
- [9:51] Locklainn Linden: haha sai, ur up
- [9:51] Infinity Linden: Sai?
- [9:52] Infinity Linden: anyone... anyone. .Beuler?
- [9:52] Locklainn Linden: afk
- [9:52] Infinity Linden: okay
- [9:52] Infinity Linden: JB / BigMike
- [9:52] Saijanai Kuhn: noithing going on with me. Trying to unblock on RL job, currently
- [9:52] Infinity Linden: wanna jump in and volunteer to do anything>
- [9:52] Infinity Linden: ?
- [9:52] Infinity Linden: okay
- [9:52] Infinity Linden: Sai has the RL thign going on
- [9:52] Tao Takashi: what's that?
- [9:52] Locklainn Linden: reminds me, we should start talking about what components need to be worked on
- [9:52] Locklainn Linden: so we can start to distribute work
- [9:53] Infinity Linden: oh... and Lor...??
- [9:53] JB Kraft: im still absorbing thus far :)
- [9:53] Lor Gynoid: I'm just listening in at the moment. :)
- [9:53] Tao Takashi: I think once the UDP handler is in place we can distribute handlers to people ;-)
- [9:53] Enus Linden: w00t!
- [9:53] Tao Takashi: JB at least was checking out the code :)
- [9:53] Locklainn Linden: then we should discuss the UDP handler
- [9:53] JB Kraft: as we speak :)
- [9:53] Lor Gynoid: I may need to learn a new programming language or two. :)
- [9:54] Infinity Linden: okay...
- [9:54] Infinity Linden: ditto for web services and cap messages
- [9:54] Tao Takashi: I have to look at the old example I think
- [9:54] Tao Takashi: one thing I wanted to clean up was the serialization component
- [9:54] Locklainn Linden: handling cap messages you mean infinitY?
- [9:54] Infinity Linden: i think we're going to announce ou plans for prioritizing things in the beta "any day now"
- [9:54] Infinity Linden: yup
- [9:55] Locklainn Linden: right
- [9:55] Infinity Linden: basically just mean "don't forget the HTTP messages"
- [9:55] Infinity Linden: whatever we want to call them
- [9:55] Locklainn Linden: so we need UDP messages and event queue handling
- [9:55] Tao Takashi: as the beta is about TP, the question is: What is missing for TP and how is TP working at all?
- [9:55] Locklainn Linden: good question
- [9:55] Tao Takashi: so maybe some Linden can find out as you should know most about it ;-)
- [9:55] Locklainn Linden: Ill try to uncover that today
- [9:55] Infinity Linden: i think teh functionality of TP is based on Zha's patch and the viewer updates
- [9:55] Tao Takashi: I can maybe think about how we best do the UDP loop
- [9:56] Infinity Linden: that are supposed to go in "any day now"
- [9:56] Locklainn Linden: Tao, then post some pseudo to the list
- [9:56] Tao Takashi: like how can we do it and still have user input etc.
- [9:56] Locklainn Linden: so we can look at it and talk
- [9:56] Infinity Linden: hmm... add a ping UDP message?
- [9:56] Infinity Linden: I could claim to be fixing a bug or two and sneak it in
- [9:56] Tao Takashi: and what I would like to know is: What is the minimum we need to handle to keep the avatar alive?
- [9:56] Locklainn Linden: haha
- [9:56] Locklainn Linden: Sai already did that
- [9:57] Tao Takashi: ok
- [9:57] Locklainn Linden: its in Enus' old code
- [9:57] Locklainn Linden: I can put that somewhere viewable
- [9:57] Locklainn Linden: to work off of
- [9:57] Infinity Linden: okay... let's make sure we have that documented
- [9:57] Tao Takashi: Well, I was more thinking about a more textual explanation ;-)
- [9:57] Locklainn Linden: you want pictures :P
- [9:57] Tao Takashi: no ;-)
- [9:57] Infinity Linden: caues with all the different code, some of it is bound to get excised
- [9:57] Infinity Linden: okay
- [9:57] Locklainn Linden: haha jk
- [9:57] Infinity Linden: coming close to the end of our half hour
- [9:57] Tao Takashi: just which packets we need to answer and how
- [9:57] Locklainn Linden: exactly
- [9:58] Locklainn Linden: I'm supposed to be talking withthe interop people about that
- [9:58] Infinity Linden: and i'm gonna die if i don't get coffee before my next meeting
- [9:58] Infinity Linden: so
- [9:58] Infinity Linden: i'm going to sneak off
- [9:58] Tao Takashi: and it would be great if we can add this to a general repository of packets and their meaning
- [9:58] Infinity Linden: and rejoin you all in #pyogp
- [9:58] Locklainn Linden: ok infinity
- [9:58] Enus Linden: ditto. will post transcript shortly...
- [9:58] Infinity Linden: cheers all!
- [9:58] Tao Takashi: not in the pyogp namespace but the general one
- [9:58] JB Kraft: adios!
- [9:58] Saijanai Kuhn: a word on presence... To keep presence, all you need to do as ack incoming packets. wheee
- [9:59] Locklainn Linden: right
- [9:59] Locklainn Linden: Tao,
- [9:59] Tao Takashi: ok, seems not to be so hard then
- [9:59] Locklainn Linden: what do you mean?
- [9:59] Locklainn Linden: add what to general repo?
- [9:59] Tao Takashi: but still the question is how we setup the udp loop so that it actually answers things in time but you can still hook some thing into it
- [10:00] Tao Takashi: isn't there some list of packets somewhere on the wiki?
- [10:00] Locklainn Linden: yea
- [10:00] Saijanai Kuhn: I though we were using eventlet for that?
- [10:00] Locklainn Linden: but not very helpful
- [10:00] Tao Takashi: If they are fully defined then ok but I guess they aren't
- [10:00] Locklainn Linden: Sai, yes eventlet should be able to do that
- [10:00] Saijanai Kuhn: messages
- [10:00] Tao Takashi: sure but I wouldn't like to bind it to eventlet
- [10:00] Locklainn Linden: what sort of things do you imagine we are going to hook into it?
- [10:00] Locklainn Linden: input and the like?
- [10:00] Tao Takashi: so we maybe need some way to allow anything to hook into it
- [10:00] Saijanai Kuhn: aside from wwhat various people have added, the wiki just lists the message_tmplate list, one per page
- [10:01] Tao Takashi: so maybe we can add to those packet descriptions as we go and explore them
- [10:01] Locklainn Linden: essentially, in order for the UDP and HTTP stuff to work together, we have to have non-blocking input
- [10:01] Tao Takashi: so as a sideeffect we have more documentation created
- [10:01] Locklainn Linden: so, unfortunately, we have only use libs that can handle that
- [10:01] Locklainn Linden: YES Tao
- [10:01] Locklainn Linden: we DEF need to do that
- [10:01] Locklainn Linden: as far as LL agrees
- [10:01] JB Kraft: isnt asyncore under the zope stuff?
- [10:01] Tao Takashi: well, I would first then start with functions which do the handling. And some loop needs to call them then
- [10:02] Saijanai Kuhn: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:Messages
- [10:02] Locklainn Linden: right
- [10:02] Tao Takashi: there are many things to do async stuff, twisted, eventlet, asyncore etc.
- [10:02] JB Kraft: right, ok
- [10:02] Locklainn Linden: hmm
- [10:02] Saijanai Kuhn: I was thinking we needed to handle: UDP, EQG, r-ttp for OGP and rhht for external comands
- [10:02] Locklainn Linden: actually, threading would solve this, no?
- [10:02] Tao Takashi: and it would be cool if the application can choose which one to usd
- [10:02] Tao Takashi: use
- [10:02] Saijanai Kuhn: r-http*
- [10:03] Enus Linden: transcript needs to end in a sec unless sai can stay
- [10:03] Tao Takashi: threading might also be an option, just run it in a different thread and send it messages
- [10:03] Saijanai Kuhn: I can stay
- [10:03] Enus Linden: ty
- [10:03] Locklainn Linden: right
- [10:03] JB Kraft: if i rem, asyncore can handle UDP and threads
- [10:03] Enus Linden: lates y'all
- [10:03] Locklainn Linden: bye Enus
- [10:03] Saijanai Kuhn: Donovan and which were suggesting threading on Python was really icky
- [10:03] Tao Takashi: but as said, we can start with those functions and the easiest thing then would to explain how you handle this in some loop
- [10:03] Tao Takashi: we can also ship an example
- [10:03] Locklainn Linden: right
- [10:03] Locklainn Linden: for information,
- [10:03] Tao Takashi: yes
- [10:03] Locklainn Linden: there are only 2 things to handle
- [10:04] Locklainn Linden: UDP and TCP
- [10:04] Locklainn Linden: TCP is the reverse http,
- [10:04] Locklainn Linden: aka, eventqueue
- [10:04] Tao Takashi: this might also get a bit tricky ;-)
- [10:04] Saijanai Kuhn: also an external command script could use rhttp
- [10:04] Locklainn Linden: right
- [10:05] Locklainn Linden: and, both AD and sim has eventqueue
- [10:05] Tao Takashi: yep
- [10:05] Locklainn Linden: but only sim has UDP messages, yes?
- [10:05] Tao Takashi: does LL have some example rhttp implementation one can test against?
- [10:05] Locklainn Linden: have u seen the wiki?
- [10:05] Locklainn Linden: i think donovan has a script using eventlet
- [10:05] Tao Takashi: well, except the Donovan script ;-)
- [10:05] Locklainn Linden: haha
- [10:05] Locklainn Linden: then probably not
- [10:06] Tao Takashi: this actually does not run for me with that hub stuff
- [10:06] Tao Takashi: I also dissected it into a server and client sciprt
- [10:06] Tao Takashi: so it's better understandable
- [10:06] Locklainn Linden: but still doesnt run?
- [10:06] Saijanai Kuhn: hmmm. DOnt' sims talk to each other with UDP, or is it all TCP now?
- [10:06] Tao Takashi: it does when I commend this hub stuff out
- [10:06] Locklainn Linden: oh
- [10:06] Tao Takashi: no idea what it actually is good for ;-)
- [10:06] Locklainn Linden: not sure Sai
- [10:06] Tao Takashi: anyway, I gotta go
- [10:06] Tao Takashi: more on the list
- [10:06] Locklainn Linden: alright
- [10:07] Tao Takashi: cya later!
- [10:07] Locklainn Linden: cya Tao
- [10:07] Locklainn Linden: Sai, you said you were going to post the transcript?
- [10:07] Saijanai Kuhn: yar