SL Certification - Meeting Minutes/2010-03-20
2010-03-20 Meeting Agenda
- Status of Phase 1
- Proceeding with Phase 2
- Group Ownership Change
- Meeting start: 9:00 am slt
- Meeting end: 10 am slt
- In Attendance:
1. Ju Roussel
2. Ima Mechanique
3. Pim Peccable
4. Patrice Cournoyer
5. iSkye Silverweb
6. Alice Klinger
7. Saii Hallard
8. Doc Gascoigne
9. Orange Planer
10. Lily Renierd
New non-group members:
1. Leyla Firefly
2. JB Hancroft
Status of Phase 1 was covered. While covering the second topic, Phase 2, the meeting was interrupted by three individuals who would not hold off-topic questions until after the meeting. After several minutes of attempting to regain control of the meeting further activities were deemed unproductive and the meeting was adjourned.
The suggestions made will be further discussed with the group.
Note: rules on future meetings will be discussed, including the ramifications for abusing said rules.
[09:01] Orange Planer: OK, it's 9, let's get this show on the road.
[09:01] Ju Roussel: Is Z. part of this community?
[09:02] Orange Planer: First thing, we need to do roll call and verify that we agree to post our comments in the minutes.
[09:02] Orange Planer: When I call your name, please say "I agree" or "I do not agree." If you do not agree, your comments will be removed from the minutes.
[09:02] Zell Christensen: I agree
[09:02] Orange Planer: Ju Roussel?
[09:02] Pim Peccable: I most certianly agree to appear in records for prosperity (yay)
[09:03] Ju Roussel: I agree
[09:03] Orange Planer: Alice Klinger?
[09:03] Alice Klinger: i agree
[09:03] Orange Planer: Patrice Cournoyer?
[09:03] Patrice Cournoyer: yes
[09:03] Orange Planer: I thought I saw Allison here...
[09:03] Alice Klinger: i think its too early for allison
[09:04] Orange Planer nods
[09:04] Orange Planer: OK, that's all of us then.
[09:04] Orange Planer: OK, Topic 1. Status of our current phase (1).
[09:04] Orange Planer: Phase 1 is essentially finished.
[09:04] Pim Peccable: excellent news
[09:04] Orange Planer: Only one more cert that needs a lot of work and it's getting done.
[09:05] White Zodiac Pillow: llStopAnimation: Script trying to stop animations but agent not found
[09:05] Pim Peccable: Welcome, Ima
[09:05] Orange Planer: Really great news for Allison, Alice, Grandma, and Aquarius - all their certs have passed several levels of peer review.
[09:06] Orange Planer: In the case of Aquarius and Grandma, they've also passed Linden review.
[09:06] Ima Mechanique: hi all
[09:06] Saii Hallard: hi :)
[09:06] Orange Planer: Ima, do we have your permission to include your notes in the minutes? If you do not want them, say "I do not agree" and we will remove them from the record.
[09:06] Ima Mechanique: apologies for my tardiness, the DST difference always throws me
[09:06] Alice Klinger: i guess we need to redo a few things because of viewer 2 changes...
[09:06] Orange Planer: Yep.
[09:07] Patrice Cournoyer: thats for sure Alice
[09:07] Orange Planer: Which reminds me...
[09:07] Orange Planer: Saii Hallard, do we have your permission to post your comments?
[09:07] JB Hancroft: Thanks, Orange :)
[09:07] Patrice Cournoyer: should we think about two versions?
[09:07] Saii Hallard: yes
[09:07] Pim Peccable: I should mention that I am submitting this project for College credit and plan to use those minutes in a paper.
[09:07] Ima Mechanique: permission granted Orange
[09:07] Orange Planer: Ima Mechanique same question.
[09:07] Alice Klinger: hi jb
[09:07] Orange Planer: Thanks.
[09:07] Saii Hallard: I agree
[09:07] Alice Klinger: hi ima
[09:07] JB Hancroft: Hi Alice :)
[09:07] JB Hancroft: gm all
[09:07] Orange Planer: We won't have to support two viewers for very long, thankfully.
[09:08] JB Hancroft listens...
[09:08] Orange's Google Translator: JB Hancroft:Orange plans list ...
[09:08] Orange Planer: As Viewer 2 goes prime time and goes through a few revisions, they'll retire Viewer 1.23.
[09:08] Orange Planer: "They" meaning Linden Lab.
[09:08] Saii Hallard: that will take some time with all the bugs
[09:08] Orange Planer: Not a horribly long time.
[09:08] JB Hancroft: Do you assume there will not be continued variants of 1.x, that are privately maintained?
[09:09] Orange Planer: I don't assume that, I know it.
[09:09] Alice Klinger: rumors are it is end of this month that it becomes mandatory... anyone knows more?
[09:09] Ima Mechanique: JB 1.23 is dead. that policy
[09:09] Orange Planer: If they are privately maintained we do not care about them.
[09:09] Ju Roussel: not a month though
[09:09] Saii Hallard: I hope not, i cant work with 2.0
[09:09] Orange Planer: I think it's possible they'll have enough bugs fixed to make it ready for 90% of the people.
[09:09] Fur Pillow/tassles: llStopAnimation: Script trying to stop animations but agent not found
[09:09] Alice Klinger: me also not so i will try to get as much creative stuff done this week as possible
[09:09] Ima Mechanique: what about Snowglobe Orange?
[09:09] Ju Roussel: It will be great when it's out of Beta. Or I hope so.
[09:10] Pim Peccable: when will 2.0 codes be avaiable to private developers?
[09:10] Orange Planer: Snowglobe will be supported because it's ongoing opensource development.
[09:10] Orange Planer: No idea.
[09:10] JB Hancroft: FWIW, I don't have any association with any private viewers, at the moment... but to assume that a viewer like Emerald (which has 15k+ users)... is irrelevant... ?
[09:10] Ju Roussel: Snowglobe was available the same day as V2.0
[09:10] Ima Mechanique: Pim, when it is the official viewer
[09:10] Ju Roussel: there are alredy viewers in "The Directory"
[09:10] Orange's Google Translator: Ju Roussel:there are alredy viewers in 'The Directory'
[09:10] Zell Christensen: It's already out Pim, or at least there are already private varients.
[09:10] Orange Planer: iSkye, do we have your permission to include your comments in the minutes? If you disagree, your comments will be removed.
[09:10] iSkye Silverweb: Yes, you do
[09:11] JB Hancroft: Orange, my apologies for being late. What's the actual topic? :)
[09:11] Ju Roussel: Snowglobe *is* the opensource code for 3rd party developpers
[09:11] Orange Planer: The actual topic right now is the status of Phase 1.
[09:11] Orange Planer: Phase 1 is the creation of the certification requirements lists.
[09:11] iSkye Silverweb: my apologies for being late also
[09:11] Orange Planer: And their completion.
[09:11] JB Hancroft: thanks :)
[09:11] Orange Planer: Their status, just to repeat for those who are late, is that they're essentially finished and have passed extensive peer review.
[09:12] Orange Planer: We can all update our wiki pages for Viewer 2 as we go forward, but sooner rather than later.
[09:12] Orange Planer: I believe LL is pushing the development team pretty hard after listening to Q Linden last weekend.
[09:12] Orange Planer: Q is the lead developer.
[09:13] Orange Planer: One sec.
[09:13] Orange Planer: Be right back - emergency.
[09:13] Orange Planer: Please discuss among yourselves and I'll catch up.
[09:13] JB Hancroft: Are the certification requirements etc. being managed by LL or this group? What's the connection between this group and LL ? (my first time meeting here :)
[09:14] iSkye Silverweb: same here JB but I was in on the mentor cert dev planning earlier
[09:14] iSkye Silverweb: it's my understanding that WE will manage the requirements
[09:14] iSkye Silverweb: ot LL
[09:14] iSkye Silverweb: not*
[09:15] Ima Mechanique: background information on what's happened todate can be found on the wiki guys
[09:15] JB Hancroft: My understanding of the certification process is that a lot of work had been done, but it has essentially stalled. Are there any certifications that are active?
[09:15] JB Hancroft: Thanks, Ima :)
[09:15] Ima Mechanique: this project has been ongoing for quite some time
[09:15] JB Hancroft: lol Zell
[09:15] Orange's Google Translator: JB Hancroft:lol cell
[09:15] Zell Christensen: ?
[09:15] Pim Peccable: active certs are phase 5
[09:15] iSkye Silverweb: it's taken longer than expected but th eoriginal schedule was really ambitious
[09:16] iSkye Silverweb: I"m looking for the wiki page...
[09:16] Orange's Google Translator: iSkye Silverweb:I'm looking for the wiki page...
[09:16] Pim Peccable: since 2007 I think Orange told me
[09:16] Zell Christensen: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SL_Certification
[09:16] Ima Mechanique: click the button on the display over there ;-)
[09:16] Pim Peccable: Welcome, Lily
[09:16] Orange Planer: Thank you, Zell.
[09:16] Pim Peccable: Orange is AFK right now
[09:16] Zell Christensen: No problem.
[09:16] Orange Planer: Hi Lily.
[09:16] Saii Hallard: zell is nervous?
[09:16] Orange Planer: Thanks for coming.
[09:17] iSkye Silverweb: I had it bookmarked so I found it right away, thanks
[09:17] Lily Renierd: Hi all
[09:17] iSkye Silverweb: Hi Lily
[09:17] Alice Klinger: jb just to clue you in, LL supports this project but is not the initiator and does not take over responsibility or enforces any of what is done here. it was a movement that came from the solution provider community to get some standards on the websites where folks for hire can get an idea what is needed to do certain jobs or what they have to understand about certain skills
[09:17] Ju Roussel: i'll relog
[09:17] Orange Planer: Lily Renierd, do we have your permission to post your comments in the minutes? If you say no, your comments will be removed from the minutes.
[09:17] iSkye Silverweb: yes, that's my understanding, Alice
[09:17] Lily Renierd: yes
[09:17] JB Hancroft: Thanks, Alice. I appreciate you summarizing it :)
[09:17] Orange Planer: That's correct, Alice.
[09:17] Alice Klinger: and since the start people are working on getting the websites done for those skillsets
[09:18] JB Hancroft: I'm also looking at the Wiki... I'd done so before, but it was a while ago.
[09:18] Alice Klinger: its tedious and all volunteer work so of course it takes long
[09:18] Orange Planer: But it helped once we had a solid deadline.
[09:19] Orange Planer: OK, so let's talk about Phase 2.
[09:19] Alice Klinger: as far as i understand glenn wanted to get some funds going for this but since he is gone idk whats happening to that plan.
[09:19] Alice Klinger is all ears
[09:19] Orange Planer: OK, what SHOULD phase 2 be?
[09:19] iSkye Silverweb: Lexie has taken over Glenn's role, is that right?
[09:19] Orange Planer: More to say about that as the agenda rolls on.
[09:19] Pim Peccable is curious that she did not come to say hi
[09:20] Orange Planer: So what do you folks think Phase 2 should be?
[09:20] iSkye Silverweb: so requirements for the skillsets have been identified?
[09:20] Orange Planer: Yes, iSkye.
[09:20] Orange Planer: That was phase 1.
[09:20] JB Hancroft: Are the phases being re-designed?
[09:20] Pim Peccable: wiki says to "develop tests" which is logical
[09:20] Orange's Google Translator: Pim Peccable:wiki says to 'develop tests' which is logical
[09:21] Patrice Cournoyer suggests maybe first a phase 1A to allow for Viewer 2 additions
[09:21] Orange Planer: Yes, they're being a little redesigned, I think, but let's talk about it.
[09:21] iSkye Silverweb: I was going to ask if Viewer 2 puts a bit of a monkey wrench into the schedule
[09:21] Orange Planer: Nice suggestion, Patrice.
[09:21] Orange Planer: Into whose schedule?
[09:21] JB Hancroft: One impression I have is that it seems there was an assumption that a commercial / external certification company would be hired.
[09:22] Orange Planer: That assumption was incorrect.
[09:22] iSkye Silverweb: ours, to re-review the requirements
[09:22] JB Hancroft: I'm not sure if that's a good assumption. Where is the $ going to come from?
[09:22] Saii Hallard: As i understand it, it is to tag someone to have skills. I only have serious doubts to who is going to take on testing others, who determines who is responsible for testing someone else?
[09:22] Pim Peccable: Probably the solution providers, JB
[09:22] Orange Planer: Hmmm....
[09:22] Orange Planer: How about this...
[09:22] Orange Planer: Instead of talking about what phase 2 should be, why don't we go over what the overall plan design should be?
[09:23] iSkye Silverweb: good idea
[09:23] Orange Planer: OK, I'll throw out the first part then as we get further in we can all chip in a bit.
[09:23] JB Hancroft listens... clearly he doesn't have enough background on this.
[09:24] Saii Hallard: hey JB :)
[09:24] JB Hancroft: hi Saii
[09:24] Orange Planer: The "original" idea was that we were going to develop certification requirements that are publically accessible, and almost simultaneously begin developing exams.
[09:24] Patrice Cournoyer: I agree with JB.. a quick suggestion for the minutes.. that we all return to our section of the Wiki and suggest next steps
[09:24] Orange Planer: So that when the fact that the lists were announced we would also have certification ready to go.
[09:25] Orange Planer: In later meetings with Glenn and with the rest of the team (all you folks) the emphasis got placed more on getting the education part of it moving rather than the testing/certification phase.
[09:25] Orange Planer: There are two reasons for that.
[09:26] Orange Planer: 1) The SP Council wants more education and whether it's better to beat people with a stick and say "study this!" or "invite them to study this" is a better way.
[09:26] Orange Planer: 2) It's going to take us time to get the exams ready anyway.
[09:26] Pim Peccable: a valid debate
[09:26] Orange Planer: Plus, nobody wants to shove anything down anybody else's throat, so...
[09:27] iSkye Silverweb: Right
[09:27] Orange Planer: 3) While I've been approached by about 7 people, there isn't a real demand for certifications yet.
[09:27] Orange Planer: So why work on something that we'll have to beat our brains on when we don't know if it'll be used?
[09:28] Orange Planer: 4) There may be feedback about the certification requirements that will cause us to change them in some way.
[09:28] Orange Planer: That would require changing the exams anyway.
[09:28] iSkye Silverweb: yes.
[09:28] Pim Peccable: change happens
[09:28] Orange Planer: Hi Doc.
[09:28] Doctor Gascoigne: hey!
[09:28] Doctor Gascoigne: I am back
[09:29] iSkye Silverweb: Hi Doc
[09:29] Doctor Gascoigne: hey!
[09:29] Orange Planer: Doctor Gascoigne, do we have your permission to post your comments to the minutes? If you so no your comments will be removed from the minutes.
[09:29] Doctor Gascoigne: yes you may
[09:29] Orange Planer: That isn't to say you guys can't go ahead and start working on the exams anyway.
[09:29] Pim Peccable: so phase 2 may not necessarily be test development?
[09:30] Orange Planer: Yup.
[09:30] iSkye Silverweb: will there be a phase 1a? then phase 2?
[09:30] Orange Planer: It COULD be test development, but it would be in conjunction with something else.
[09:30] iSkye Silverweb: 1a to review with regard to Viewer 2
[09:30] Orange Planer: What do you folks think of suggestion 1a?
[09:31] Ima Mechanique: hi Doc, nice slippers
[09:31] Doctor Gascoigne: thanks
[09:31] Doctor Gascoigne: nice board Orange
[09:31] Orange Planer: Sameboard as always, but thanks. :D
[09:31] Pim Peccable: the new viewer just changes the answers to some of the questions, I think
[09:31] Orange Planer: Pretty much, Pim.
[09:32] JB Hancroft: Viewer 2 is such a major changes, yes, it make sense to do something like a 1a
[09:32] JB Hancroft: but there will always be ongoing changes... so any tests need to be calibrated to the set of platform features available at the time
[09:32] iSkye Silverweb: we'll always have to iterate the requirements and test development stages whenever a significant update/upgrade comes out
[09:32] Orange Planer: Yup.
[09:32] JB Hancroft nods... what iSkye said :)
[09:32] Orange Planer: And we'll create a schedule for that.
[09:32] Orange's Google Translator: JB Hancroft:Orange plans nods ... what iSkye said:)
[09:33] Orange's Google Translator: Translator is Off
[09:33] Pim Peccable: I agree with her statement too
[09:33] Orange Planer: What should we do after 1A?
[09:33] JB Hancroft: What's the assumption about a Certification being renewed of how long it's valid? It is a snapshot in time.
[09:33] Orange Planer: Interesting idea, JB. I hadn't considered it. Let's table that for a moment, though.
[09:34] JB Hancroft: ok, certainly.
[09:34] Pim Peccable: Do other certificates have a standard time ?
[09:34] iSkye Silverweb: people won't be happy if it's announced that due to the release of a new viewer version, certifications have to be renewed via re-testing
[09:34] Doctor Gascoigne: re-certification should be something we discuss once we get this in the bag
[09:34] Orange Planer: Let's talk about what we should do after 1A.
[09:34] Doctor Gascoigne: baby steps
[09:35] Orange Planer: Leyla Firefly, do we have your permission to post your comments to the minutes? If you do not agree your comments will be removed.
[09:35] Pim Peccable: Whenever Microsoft releases new languages, recertification is necesary (i think)
[09:35] Doctor Gascoigne: I agree
[09:35] Leyla Firefly: yes
[09:35] Saii Hallard: :)
[09:35] Alice Klinger: i had suggested to make it a regular procedure that this group will be informed ahead of time about LL timelines for important changes that require updates
[09:35] iSkye Silverweb: if it's a new language it's not re-certification :)
[09:35] Orange Planer: Guys.
[09:35] JB Hancroft: Cisco's certs are good for a certain time... fwiw
[09:35] Orange Planer: Guys!
[09:35] iSkye Silverweb: I like Alice's statement
[09:35] Pim Peccable: good point, Skye
[09:35] iSkye Silverweb: a heads up
[09:35] Alice Klinger: but maybe not viable as glenn said, no staff available... so we might live from day to day and cant promise anything which is quite frustrating
[09:35] Orange Planer: I would like to direct the topic toward what we do after Phase 1A.
[09:36] Orange Planer: I have a reason for doing that.
[09:36] iSkye Silverweb: developing exams, then
[09:36] Orange Planer: That could be part of it.
[09:36] Orange Planer: Question for the group: who knows about the certification requirements?
[09:36] iSkye Silverweb: how do people prep for the exams?
[09:36] Pim Peccable: just the ones in our wiki
[09:36] iSkye Silverweb: that's related to Orange's question
[09:36] Saii Hallard: not me, i got lots of questions about this
[09:36] JB Hancroft nods... the wiki
[09:37] Orange Planer: OK, it does us no good if nobody outside our group knows about the wiki.
[09:37] Alice Klinger: maybe just this group and who accidentle fell over the websites?
[09:37] Orange Planer: Right?
[09:37] iSkye Silverweb: Right, Orange
[09:37] Orange Planer: How do we make people aware of the wiki?
[09:37] Pim Peccable: Publicity
[09:37] Orange Planer: Nice idea, Pim. What kind?
[09:37] Ju Roussel: networking
[09:37] Alice Klinger: posting on the LL blog
[09:37] Doctor Gascoigne: cross connects
[09:37] Alice Klinger: as guest writer
[09:37] Doctor Gascoigne: our various places
[09:38] Alice Klinger: with a direct login link ;-)
[09:38] Ju Roussel: mentioning during events we hold
[09:38] iSkye Silverweb: Need to make it clear too, what the purpose of the certifications is
[09:38] Orange Planer: Could we hold an event?
[09:38] JB Hancroft: Orange - did you just switch to "after 1a)" to publicity?
[09:38] Pim Peccable: After we talked the other day, I I have made a list on Twitter to follow people participating in this project. You can follow it at http://twitter.com/Pim_Peccable/second-life-certification Alternately, we could use #SLCertDev as a subject marker when tweeting so people can follow the subject only.
[09:38] Pim Peccable: tweets last
[09:38] iSkye Silverweb: i need to set up a twitter account...makes note to self
[09:39] Orange Planer: Interesting idea, Pim.
[09:39] Pim Peccable: you can even google them
[09:39] Orange Planer: Could we hold an event?
[09:39] iSkye Silverweb: sure but we need to publicize it
[09:39] Orange Planer: You bet.
[09:39] Orange Planer: What kind of event?
[09:39] iSkye Silverweb: what would be the "hook" to get people to come?
[09:39] Orange Planer: Who is our target audience?
[09:39] Pim Peccable: the recent RHN fair springs to mind
[09:39] iSkye Silverweb: people who want to work in SL..
[09:39] JB Hancroft: VWBPE, also
[09:39] JB Hancroft: lots of events going on
[09:40] Pim Peccable: ooh good point, Iskye
[09:40] Orange Planer: Good news, I had a boot at VWBPE.
[09:40] JB Hancroft: a boot? ;)
[09:40] Orange Planer: booth
[09:40] Orange Planer: oops
[09:40] Ju Roussel: hm... how do you follow a hashtag?
[09:40] Pim Peccable: he "got a foot in the door"
[09:40] iSkye Silverweb: yay
[09:40] Doctor Gascoigne: only one boot
[09:40] Doctor Gascoigne: wow
[09:40] JB Hancroft: lol Pim
[09:40] iSkye Silverweb: steel toed boot
[09:40] Orange Planer: We got about 20 hits on the booth notecard.
[09:40] iSkye Silverweb: more than a foot
[09:40] Pim Peccable: Hashtags are used to search Twitter. you can save that search
[09:41] JB Hancroft: ok - so Cert/noob question: what's the end goal? Who do expect to use a Certified List, how, why, and when?
[09:41] Orange Planer: iSkye, you mentioned "anyone who wants to work in SL."
[09:41] Orange Planer: Can I suggest a job fair?
[09:41] iSkye Silverweb: ideal!
[09:41] Ju Roussel: good, I get that. I thought we can now follow a hashtag. wrong assumption
[09:41] iSkye Silverweb: now...we need to be clear about who we are really targeting
[09:41] Orange Planer: Yup.
[09:41] Pim Peccable: bad choice of words on my part, Ju
[09:42] Orange Planer: We also need the SP Council to stand up and say they're supporting this.
[09:42] JB Hancroft: Orange - can you address my question about the goal? I see this in the Wiki: "The goal of the SL Certification Project is to create these certifiers. "
[09:42] Pim Peccable: SKILLED work - the kind that pays better
[09:42] Orange Planer: without them, this goes nowhere unless we're REALLY trying to do a grassroots thing.
[09:42] iSkye Silverweb: yep...and we also have to have some...well....Orange, how can we ahve a job fair when we don't have people certified and ready to start working?
[09:43] Orange Planer: The wiki is a work in progress and that part of it has already been decided.
[09:43] Orange Planer: More 'about that in Topic 3.
[09:43] Saii Hallard: Orange, you said i would get up to speed, but what is this about really... i see too much stuff about details, but nothing about the true meaning and ethics of this undertaking
[09:43] Alice Klinger: orange, since the sp council members decide what they want to work at, you might just stand up for it yourself and ask for the support you need.
[09:43] Orange Planer: You're coming in late, Saii, so I'll be happy to meet with you afterwards.
[09:44] Saii Hallard: allright
[09:44] iSkye Silverweb: "hey, you expressed a wish for this, SP Council folks, and we're trying to deliver, can we expect your support on this..."
[09:44] Orange Planer: That's right, Alice, but I can't do it if I don't know who the SP Council members are.
[09:44] JB Hancroft: Orange, it seems you've got some things in mind ... perhaps we can get those on the table, now.
[09:44] Orange Planer: I've asked to meet with them.
[09:44] Ima Mechanique: what is the SP Council?
[09:44] Orange Planer: I've got a billion ideas, but not all of them are feasible. I'd rather do this with everyone.
[09:44] Orange Planer: Solution Provider Council.
[09:45] Orange Planer: I thought that was SLDev, so I met with them, but then I found out I was wrong. I'm afraid there was some kind of misunderstanding between Glenn and myself.
[09:45] Leyla Firefly: doesn't SL contributes their own Solution Provider page?
[09:45] JB Hancroft: Ima - I'll be glad to talk with you about that afterward, if you like.
[09:45] Leyla Firefly: incl. Gold Solution Provider?
[09:45] Orange Planer: Yes, Leyla, I believe they do.
[09:45] Orange Planer: Yes, Leyla.
[09:45] Leyla Firefly: then why this?
[09:45] Orange Planer: Because this is about education.
[09:45] iSkye Silverweb: that job fair idea - if the companies needing the skills understand that the peopel coming to the fair will not yet be certified, but are willing to perhaps consider hiring with the understanding these people will work toward certifying,then I'd get behind the job fair idea
[09:46] Pim Peccable: Hmm, more a Job Training Fair
[09:46] Orange Planer kinda likes both ideas.
[09:47] Ju Roussel: <- seconds Orange.
[09:47] iSkye Silverweb: yeah people can meet the companies needing skills and then get excited about the possibility of actually working, and want to get certrified so they can do it
[09:47] Orange Planer: i see no reason to be shy about stuff.
[09:47] Pim Peccable: exactly
[09:47] iSkye Silverweb: Job training sounds like a really good idea
[09:48] Ju Roussel: During such event, present a couple of real life cases.
[09:48] Orange Planer nods
[09:48] iSkye Silverweb: yes! what Ju said
[09:48] JB Hancroft: Ok, so I'm going to sit and listen. I'm assuming that my questions about "what is the end objective?" aren't going to get answered? :)
[09:48] Ju Roussel: Create demand for VW employees, too
[09:48] iSkye Silverweb: without naming names of companies (or they'd get BARRAGED by people who don't have the certs yet)
[09:48] Orange Planer: Yes they will, JB.
[09:48] JB Hancroft: ok - thanks, when? :)
[09:48] Orange Planer: You, me, and Saii will talk afterwards.
[09:49] JB Hancroft: we can't design steps toward something that's not identified.
[09:49] Ju Roussel: Thinking people like Hydra Shaftoe (Nokia, not even 1st question)
[09:49] iSkye Silverweb: Teh end objective, JB, is to create jobs for people in SL, by working for RL companies in SL
[09:49] Orange Planer: Not quite.
[09:49] Leyla Firefly has worked for rl companies in SL
[09:49] iSkye Silverweb: ok that's indirectly
[09:49] Orange Planer: The end result is to increase the number of identifiably qualified candidates from which companies can hire.
[09:49] iSkye Silverweb: yeah
[09:49] JB Hancroft: thank you
[09:49] JB Hancroft: that wasn't hard now, was it? ;)
[09:50] Pim Peccable: Hydra should make a good dexample
[09:50] JB Hancroft: What level of backing is there from LL for this?
[09:50] Orange Planer: OK, so let's review the possible methods of communication.
[09:50] Orange Planer: One sec, JB.
[09:51] iSkye Silverweb: we have a lot of talented builders, scripters, mentors (excuse me, tutors), etc. but no registry of these people and no standard for skill level/competency that companies can use to determine qualifications
[09:51] Orange Planer: We have blogs, networking between groups and people, a possible job/job training fair, what else?
[09:51] Ju Roussel: Simplicity and access are key when communicating. Thinking how LLs used Zoho Creator (database app) for Burning Life
[09:51] JB Hancroft: iSkye - I agree. I'm looking to hire more people, and I have to trust on my own networking and exposure to who does what, and who knows who.
[09:52] Leyla Firefly: rl companies find them here... http://solutionproviders.secondlife.com/provider
[09:52] Saii Hallard: There is also a question about language, not every talented one in SL can speak english
[09:52] Orange Planer: Leyla, the group isn't big enough.
[09:52] Pim Peccable: we should review who on project are liguists
[09:52] JB Hancroft: the SP program identifies language skills (thanks for the link, Leyla)
[09:53] Orange Planer: I saw references to some kind of a login?
[09:53] Pim Peccable: other language certification sounds down the road a piece
[09:53] Orange Planer: I'm working on getting the wiki pages translated.
[09:53] Orange Planer: They're already being translated into Spanish.
[09:53] Leyla Firefly: the group isn't big enought? There is 368 companies on that list, means talented people inside SL who have a rl business for billing those companies who seek a presenc inside SL
[09:54] Orange Planer: Don't argue with me, Leyla. Argue with the Solution Provider Council. They're the ones who asked for this.
[09:54] Saii Hallard: I am very wary of this initiative, where people are branded as being certified oppose to others, where favorism is a danger, country origin is a problem (it seems)... you should be very careful with branding people... as the provider website from LL (which leyla just said) is an example, where everyone and his mother can be a gold provider, given that they pay the fee
[09:54] Ju Roussel: country of origin not a hindrance from what I see in SL-RL companies
[09:55] Leyla Firefly: who are the council?
[09:55] Orange Planer: Good question, Leyla. I'm trying to find out.
[09:55] Leyla Firefly: Linden Lab?
[09:55] Orange Planer: Through Linden Lab.
[09:55] Pim Peccable: Saii, I think (at this point) it is only due to fact that iniating group primarily speaks English
[09:55] Saii Hallard: yes, I know this
[09:56] Saii Hallard: I'm just pointing out the consequence
[09:56] Orange Planer: Saii, I can answer those questions for you afterwards.
[09:56] Pim Peccable: we should plan for it , yes
[09:56] iSkye Silverweb: that's not as likely to happen here, Saii
[09:56] Alice Klinger: the council is a subgroup of Solution providers that were suggested by other solution providers to work close with Linden Lab to enhance the work with the solution provider community
[09:56] Orange Planer: I'd like to keep the group focused on what we need to discuss now.
[09:56] JB Hancroft: Orange - what did the SP Council ask for?
[09:56] Saii Hallard: If it's likely or not, ethics should be the primary concern if you are going to label people
[09:56] Saii Hallard: lable*
[09:56] Orange Planer: Saii - what does it mean to get a college degree?
[09:56] iSkye Silverweb: Saii, we're not labeling people
[09:57] Saii Hallard: a college degree means nothing in real life
[09:57] Orange Planer: oH really.
[09:57] Alice Klinger: yeah right but still companies hire based on this stuff saii . funny huh
[09:57] JB Hancroft: ok, let's table that..
[09:57] Saii Hallard: no, you are tested in your work anyway
[09:57] iSkye Silverweb: It means you have a level of competency in your area of study
[09:57] Pim Peccable: I felt the same, but I am getting one anyway
[09:57] iSkye Silverweb: you are able to work in that area
[09:58] Doctor Gascoigne: ok folks I have a Burning Life meeting
[09:58] Orange Planer: OK, let's continue talking about what we can do to publicize the wiki, please.
[09:58] JB Hancroft: Orange, said that the SP Council had asked you for something.. related to this group? Can you say what in detail, please, now?
[09:58] iSkye Silverweb: Saii, companies want to know up front whether the people they are hiring have a certain level of competency
[09:58] Ju Roussel: rather to find your way. Method rather than ability is "labeled" here
[09:58] Doctor Gascoigne: cya all later
[09:58] Leyla Firefly: that is real life, where professors with a real life identity and a grade have the right to test and lable you, in SL, who is gonna writ/make those exams? John Doe behind an anonimous avatar?
[09:58] JB Hancroft: bye Doctor
[09:58] Pim Peccable: so long Dco
[09:58] Lily Renierd: bye Doc
[09:58] Orange Planer: Folks, this meeteing is just about out of control.
[09:59] Saii Hallard: i know iSkye, there is more to what i mean, but its not for this discussion. :)
[09:59] Orange Planer: I want us to focus on what we need to do here.
[09:59] Pim Peccable: Leyla, that is us
[09:59] Orange Planer: We are not debating the necessity of this group.
[09:59] Ima Mechanique: bye Doc
[09:59] Orange Planer: We are planning for what we need to do next.
[09:59] iSkye Silverweb: ok publicity
[09:59] iSkye Silverweb: job training fair - GREAT idea
[09:59] Leyla Firefly: yes Pim, and what maks you capable of testing me to be certified?
[09:59] Orange Planer: Leyla, I will discuss this with you and Saii and JB later.
[10:00] Alice Klinger: ok people can we all slow down and stop accusing everyone who is longer in this group of wanting to judge over anyone?
[10:00] Alice Klinger: i feel terribly misunderstood
[10:00] JB Hancroft: Orange... we might as well address all those things now... otherwise they will continue to get in the way of what you want to focus on. :)
[10:00] Alice Klinger: i invested hundreds of hours to bring my knowledge on those pages for FREE
[10:00] Orange Planer: All right.
[10:00] Orange Planer: Meeting adjourned.