Scripting User group/Transcripts/2011.04.04

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List of Attendees

Transcript

[09:00] Ardy Lay sets RenderUnloadedAvatar to FALSE
[09:00] Void Singer: anyone having troubles starting group chats? had my third group oday "fail to start session", although I seem to get ones that are already started fine
[09:00] Draconis Neurocam: hello kelly
[09:00] Stickman Resident: Kelly's sitting on the couch with the proletariat?
[09:00] Ardy Lay: I guess I had that TRUE for troubleshooting and forgot to set it back.
[09:00] Latif Khalifa: Void, yes, since about late 2007 ;)
[09:01] Latif Khalifa: Hi Kelly
[09:01] Void Singer waves @ Kelly and everyone else
[09:01] Void Singer: lol Ardy
[09:01] Stickman Resident: Had inventory problems earlier today. And Verkin had trouble logging in. General slowdowns.
[09:01] Qie Niangao pulls his nose out of the mapAPI and *waves*
[09:01] Kelly Linden: Good morning.
[09:01] Stickman Resident: Good morning!
[09:02] Kelly Linden: Hope everyone is doing well
[09:02] Latif Khalifa: Qie, LL's or SignpostMarv's javascript?
[09:02] Qie Niangao: LL's for now
[09:02] Draconis Neurocam: im doing well, are you kelly?
[09:02] Kelly Linden: Doing pretty good.
[09:02] Ardy Lay: Hi tehKellz, doing okay
[09:03] Stickman Resident: I'm alive. Good enough for now.
[09:03] Stickman crosses off item 1 on the todo list.
[09:03] Kelly Linden: I never got a chance to write up a how to on getting to the scipting backlog.
[09:03] Latif Khalifa: Did you fix lag and solved world peace already? :)
[09:03] Stickman Resident: Always make sure not to die first thing in the morning. Then the rest of the day can go as planned.
[09:03] Kelly Linden: Just the world peace. Lag is harder.
[09:03] Latif Khalifa: hahaha
[09:04] Opensource Obscure: :D
[09:04] Draconis Neurocam: hehe
[09:04] Qie Niangao: meh. RL lag is much worse, and the region crossings are dreadful.
[09:04] Void Singer: but I thought Strife faought lag with efficiency (pun)
[09:04] Latif Khalifa: at least there are no region crossing TSA patdowns in SL ;)
[09:04] Void Singer: fought*
[09:05] Kelly Linden: Latif: Yet
[09:05] Draconis Neurocam: checking for excess scripts latif?
[09:05] Draconis Neurocam: hehe
[09:05] Latif Khalifa: lol it could come
[09:05] Kelly Linden: Last week I introduced the scripting jira project
[09:05] Latif Khalifa: Sir, we need to put those scripts on the table for inspection
[09:05] Ardy Lay: And when your airplane falls apart in mid-flight in SL you just rez another and move on.
[09:06] Latif Khalifa: Ah, scripting is not in SVC jira anymore?
[09:06] Kelly Linden: There is a new one!
[09:06] Kelly Linden: Note the big board here.
[09:07] Void Singer: is there an easy way to port existing jiras filed in SVC?
[09:07] Draconis Neurocam: we can move them i believe void
[09:07] Kelly Linden: Void: That is a trick. We can take two approaches.
[09:08] Kelly Linden: First: People on the 'trusted' list can move them. However it is tricky becuase it means you could move anything in web/svc/vwr into any project you can create new issues in.
[09:08] Void Singer is all for manually moving ones that are still active, rather than just moving anything with a scripting component
[09:08] Kelly Linden: So, one possibility is that I take requests to be on the trusted list, and hunt you down if you abuse it.
[09:09] Liisa Runo: i can be trusted, im polite and play nice
[09:09] Stickman Resident: I'll willing to take that chance.
[09:09] Kelly Linden: The second is that anyone can create new issues in SCR and link it to the SVC issue and we can close the SVC issue as a dupe. It is less pretty but anyone can do it.
[09:09] Latif Khalifa is on the trusted list ;)
[09:09] Void Singer: well consider this a request to be on the list... I'm not likey to abuse it... I don't muck about as much in Jira as I used to
[09:09] Siana Gearz: *cough*
[09:09] Qie Niangao: Is the Contributor's Agreement a pre-req for "trusted" ?
[09:09] Kelly Linden: no
[09:09] Kelly Linden: that is a separate list
[09:09] Qie Niangao: coolness
[09:10] Siana Gearz: so people with CA aren't automatically trusted either?
[09:10] Kelly Linden: correct
[09:10] Siana Gearz thinks she's trustworthy, and she has a CA
[09:10] Void Singer: CA, that the TPV/patch lists right?
[09:11] Siana Gearz: though i'm somewhat unlikely to really go policing the jira.
[09:11] Draconis Neurocam thinks that self promotion is silly and it should be up to others to decide if he is
[09:11] Qie Niangao: the jira surely logs whose been moving what, right? so the notti can be spanked.
[09:11] Ardy Lay: Yeah
[09:11] Ardy Lay: I think it does
[09:11] Siana Gearz thinks draconis is silly and just doesn't like to take responsibility
[09:11] Void Singer bites her lip
[09:11] Kelly Linden: All right, there seems to be enough interest we will try the trusted route for now. The idea would NOT be to police jira though just to move issues that are active or you are interested in to the SCR project
[09:11] Siana Gearz: .oO(sorry)
[09:12] Kelly Linden: I can still move issues during my script triages
[09:12] Liisa Runo: trust me or move SVC-1167 for me
[09:12] Flexi Campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1167

[#SVC-1167] Script function to return objects

[09:12] Draconis Neurocam: i did see that creation in script was available last i looked though
[09:12] Latif Khalifa: Kelly, what's the criteria if an issue is movable?
[09:12] Kelly Linden: It isn't about self promotion.
[09:12] Ardy Lay: Heh, I was about to mention that one, Liisa.
[09:13] Kelly Linden: It is a scripting issue and I haven't already moved it back to SVC.
[09:13] Kelly Linden: (ie no move wars)
[09:13] Latif Khalifa: ok, fair enough
[09:13] Void Singer sends hugs to Liisa: I love that Jira and forgot to mark it in my watch list
[09:14] Kelly Linden: If you are interested send me an email with your resident name. kelly@lindenlab.com regulars to these meetings will likely get on the list.
[09:14] Kelly Linden: if they request. Others I will be more hesitent to add.
[09:14] Qie Niangao: (speaking of hugs: yay for llRegionSayTo() ... in case we haven't "yay"d about it here yet)
[09:15] Liisa Runo: yay ^^
[09:15] Void Singer: Qie vas ist ?
[09:16] Qie Niangao: direct obj-to-obj comms, in-sim
[09:16] Draconis Neurocam: using listen event
[09:16] Kelly Linden: llRegionSayTo(key id, integer channel, string msg) will trigger a listen in the object with that id and a listen on that channel
[09:16] Qie Niangao: (prim-to-prim, actually)
[09:16] Draconis Neurocam: if avatar all attachments
[09:17] Draconis Neurocam: something we have been needing for years, and very deserving of a yay
[09:17] Kelly Linden: k that scripted return is now SCR-19
[09:18] Second Life: Entering god mode, level 200
[09:18] Liisa Runo: ?
[09:18] Void Singer: ooo so basically in-region IM service for objects?
[09:18] Void Singer likes
[09:18] Ardy Lay: I see Darling it trying to make a complex product out of a simple request.
[09:18] Stickman Resident: Wasn't that an April Fools joke?
[09:19] Draconis Neurocam: i think it was andrew being funny
[09:19] Kelly Linden: What was an april fools joke?
[09:19] Stickman Resident: April Fools is all about putting a delicious meal under someone's nose, then smashing their face into it, and throwing it in the trash.
[09:19] Stickman Resident: And for some reason people wonder why there's so much offense going around.
[09:20] Draconis Neurocam: at the end of andrews meeting on friday, he made it sound like llregionsayto was an april fools joke
[09:20] Liisa Runo: lol, evil
[09:20] Qie Niangao: lol, I thought *that* was the april fool's joke. a meta-joke.
[09:20] Draconis Neurocam: right
[09:20] Stickman Resident: The joke about joking, yeah.
[09:20] Stickman Resident: Anyway, I don't know.
[09:20] Stickman Resident: I just don't like cruel jokes.
[09:20] Void Singer: awww, stickman, sounds like you've been burned by the more cruel type of prank
[09:20] Stickman Resident: llRegionSayTo, Kelly. Is it real?
[09:20] Kelly Linden: I'm not in on the joke, I can only make the first half of Andrew's friday user group.
[09:21] Stickman Resident: I do my best not to be bitter. But it comes with old man territory, I think.
[09:21] Kelly Linden: It is real. I do not know what version it will be out in.
[09:22] Draconis Neurocam claps
[09:22] Stickman Resident: So the joke was that it was a joke.
[09:22] Stickman Resident: Cute.
[09:22] Stickman Resident: Also, good news!
[09:22] Kelly Linden: Hm. this jira bot script looks like it should work for SCR issues, dunno why it isn't.
[09:23] Void Singer like that type of joke... very much likes the idea of that function
[09:23] Kelly Linden: I think the only bit left to code is the attachment behavior
[09:24] Ardy Lay: Does that project require login?
[09:24] Kelly Linden: I didn't think so, but maybe. Let me check.
[09:24] Void Singer: speaking of jira and scripting... on the LSL_Portal, the function pages have a link to search jira for bugs related to the function.... anyone up to editing it remove the bad component ID?
[09:24] Kelly Linden: ah, it does. I will fix that.
[09:24] Latif Khalifa: do you have that auth type set to none
[09:24] Foxers Fhang: vol 0.2
[09:25] Kelly Linden: I hate the LSL wiki template. I never have time to understand it.
[09:25] Nad Warrior: sup kelly
[09:25] Nad Warrior: what you doin later?
[09:25] Foxers Fhang: Hey Kelly :>
[09:25] Nad Warrior: down for yiff?
[09:25] Draconis Neurocam: the lsl wiki itself is good, i just dislike the lack of highlighting for some constants
[09:26] Void Singer: Kelly, normally I'd ask Strife, but I rarely see the cabbit anymore
[09:26] Foxers Fhang: vol 0.1
[09:26] Kelly Linden: he may be the only one that understands it
[09:27] Nad Warrior: i see this guy wears a hat
[09:27] Foxers Fhang: Bonjour!
[09:27] Nad Warrior: and a doggie is hiding here
[09:27] Draconis Neurocam: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlSetPrimMediaParams most of that as an example
[09:27] Kelly Linden: So this week was supposed to be a triage week.
[09:28] Kelly Linden: but I'm still getting this jira setup right.
[09:28] Qie Niangao hypes SVC-868 at every opportunity
[09:28] Flexi Campfire: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-868

[#SVC-868] llGiveInventoryList should be able to work gridwide

[09:28] Kelly Linden: hm. I guess we should look at the triage list anyway and I can move things to the SCR project
[09:28] Foxers Fhang: who
[09:29] Kelly Linden: unfortunately that one isn't gonna happen any time soon.
[09:29] Qie Niangao: a http://www .
[09:29] Nad Warrior: who?
[09:29] Foxers Fhang: ya boy
[09:29] Kelly Linden: Inventory give is a complicated thing. Cross region inventory gives from an object wrap the entire give into an IM. Currently that system does not support multiple objects.
[09:29] Void Singer really wish it did work.... oh so mane problems solved
[09:30] Kelly Linden: That system has its own problems, especially for reliability and the IM cap
[09:30] Kelly Linden: But there would have to be a fair bit of re-architecting to make the list version work grid wide.
[09:30] Latif Khalifa: Doesn't agent-agent multiple inv offer work cross regions?
[09:31] Latif Khalifa: (it also uses IM system)
[09:31] Stickman Resident (stickman): So a cross-region inventory give would be subject to the 1023 character limit if the same method was used, or does it bypass the standard text size limit?
[09:31] Kelly Linden: Honestly would rather spend the time making inventory and money functions that returned success codes or gauranteed success
[09:31] Latif Khalifa: yeah
[09:31] Ardy Lay: I like that idea.
[09:31] Qie Niangao: thought maybe there was some sort of backdoor approach to piggyback on the MagicBox-less Marketplace delivery. But perhaps not.
[09:32] Void Singer: success codes would be nice... but wouldn't that be hard with queued deleveries?
[09:32] Kelly Linden: Magicbox-less delivery works because we trust the markeplace to be inside the firewall and with direct access to inventory API layers.
[09:32] Draconis Neurocam: how would the sucess code be given? which event?
[09:32] Kelly Linden: Void: never said it was easy.
[09:33] Techwolf Lupindo: "Magicbox-less delivery works " <-- Tell that to the customers of the jira of failed deleverious.
[09:33] Kelly Linden: Ok, well, that is outside my domain Techwolf. :)
[09:33] Techwolf Lupindo smiles
[09:33] Stickman Resident (stickman): Right, would success codes be on function call? That seems rather immediate for a "dataserver"-like function call.
[09:33] Kelly Linden: I was just glad to get them to stop using xmlrpc and email.
[09:34] Draconis Neurocam: hehe
[09:34] Kelly Linden: It would probably have to be in an event, and probably a new one.
[09:34] Void Singer: lol that is something to celebrate
[09:34] Kelly Linden: And it would have to be new function calls.
[09:34] Stickman Resident (stickman): That seems reasonable in this case, though.
[09:34] Draconis Neurocam: deprecate the old ones?
[09:34] Kelly Linden: Maybe.
[09:34] Techwolf Lupindo: Need to have two new events, one for object was delevered and one for seeing if the person ever came online to accecpt delevery.
[09:35] Kelly Linden: I'd also like to see some form of llTransact - a give inventory and take money combo.
[09:35] Stickman Resident (stickman): Heh. Get an event call three months later.
[09:35] Stickman Resident (stickman): Carrier pidgeon got lost.
[09:35] Void Singer: would it really have to be a new function call? after all the current ones can't be used inline so if they suddenly start popping up return codes the script isn't going to notice
[09:35] Latif Khalifa: async can be hard
[09:35] Draconis Neurocam: that would be very cool as well kelly, money related lsl stuff is very sparse
[09:35] Kelly Linden: Yeah, I'm not really sure how to handle the offline agent case well.
[09:36] Stickman Resident (stickman): Force the avatar online to accept the transaction. Problem solved.
[09:36] Latif Khalifa: lol
[09:36] Kelly Linden: haha
[09:36] Techwolf Lupindo: llgivemoney can return a success/fail sence it works with offline avatars.
[09:37] Void Singer: perhaps some indication if it was successfull queued or over the queue limit?
[09:37] Latif Khalifa: frankly, that one has been stable for a while
[09:37] Latif Khalifa: (or perhaps lower concurency isn't tasking the backend muck)
[09:37] Stickman Resident (stickman): The event can return TRANS_SUCCESS, TRANS_FAILURE, and TRANS_OFFLINE. So you can flag things like that and deal with them manually, at least.
[09:38] Latif Khalifa: but I haven't seen llGiveMoney() fail in a while
[09:40] Kelly Linden: Ok, for adhoc triage - anyone have another issue they'd like us to discuss?
[09:41] Latif Khalifa: Do you have the possibility to inspect running sim's script?
[09:41] Kelly Linden: In what way?
[09:42] Latif Khalifa: I have this highly non-reproducable problem with scripts "forgetting" they have debit permission and I'm unable to tell how and why they end up in such sitution
[09:42] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): would someone drop a NC on me with what I've missed please?
[09:42] Latif Khalifa: i was wondering if running "failed" script like that would provide any clue
[09:42] Ardy Lay: I'd like for LEAP-4 to get fixed but I think you already told me that is a viewer issue.
[09:42] Opensource Obscure: i'll do that Niel
[09:42] Kelly Linden: I don't really have a way to debug that.
[09:43] Ima Mechanique (nielarcher): thanks oobscure
[09:43] Draconis Neurocam: latif come to think of it i think i have seen that as well
[09:43] Draconis Neurocam: still very unreproducable
[09:43] Kelly Linden: yeah that is a viewer bug and I'd like it fixed too
[09:43] Latif Khalifa: it's not viewer
[09:43] Draconis Neurocam: i think he was talking to ardy latif
[09:44] Latif Khalifa: ah
[09:44] Latif Khalifa: sorry
[09:44] Stickman Resident (stickman): By the way -- I know better accounting is on the timeline, but is there a plan for execution time stats on a script? Find out how efficient it is CPU-wise? Right now an entirely empty sim with the stat panel, or an estate manager, are the only ones who can get a guess on that.
[09:44] Kelly Linden: yeah sorry. The only advice I have for that case is what you could already think of - add your own event tracking and IM/email you when you lose permission
[09:45] Kelly Linden: If you give me a region and timestamp for when it gets lost in a jira I can take a quick look sometime - but it has to be a recent event for there to still be good logs.
[09:45] Latif Khalifa: Kelly, related: how hard is having many timers on the script engine?
[09:45] Kelly Linden: object uuid would help too
[09:45] Kelly Linden: Latif I think it is more about what the timers do.
[09:46] Kelly Linden: Except for extreme cases
[09:46] Latif Khalifa: i just didn't want to have 300 scripts with timers periodically check debit permission
[09:46] Latif Khalifa: like every 5 min
[09:46] Kelly Linden: that probably isn't that bad, at least for a while.
[09:46] Void Singer: that's (only) 1 check a sec on averag =X
[09:47] Kelly Linden: I wonder if it fires a run_time_permissions event when it is lost or not
[09:47] Latif Khalifa: no
[09:48] Kelly Linden: you *sure*?
[09:48] Void Singer wonders if it might not be better to just check those permissions each time before they are needed
[09:48] Latif Khalifa: Void, I do that, but then its too late
[09:48] Void Singer: ah
[09:48] Draconis Neurocam: right
[09:50] Kelly Linden: All right.
[09:51] Latif Khalifa: coming back to what Stickman said, would be nice to have some ability to debug script perfomance in the viewer
[09:51] Kelly Linden: I have mono2-performance up on aditi now. Please test it out if you have time. Morris and a few sandboxes are running it (and lots of other regions actually, if it isn't mesh there is a good chance it is mono2-performance)
[09:51] Techwolf Lupindo: I"ve been out of the loop, is there a roadmap to the mono upgrade/mone rez fix?
[09:51] Kelly Linden: I don't think we will see a lot of improvement on debugging scripts until we move past LSL
[09:51] Kelly Linden: Techwolf: When it looks good on aditi for a couple weeks it will move into the RC pipeline.
[09:52] Kelly Linden: I'm looking into SCR-18 this week hopefully, and I still need to look through to see if any other issues were files
[09:52] Kelly Linden: filed
[09:52] Kelly Linden: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SCR-18
[09:53] Kelly Linden: that one may be a case of aditi being older hardware or it may be something else.
[09:53] Void Singer: silly question....M2 performance upgrades put verision back on (or somewhere over) the horizon?
[09:53] Kelly Linden: I don't understand the question
[09:54] Void Singer: versioning* sorry, still not awake
[09:54] Kelly Linden: our library API versioning?
[09:54] Void Singer nods
[09:54] Kelly Linden: that is gonna happen in whatever language comes after LSL, but not in LSL
[09:55] Kelly Linden: So, it is definitely after the mono2 upgrade.
[09:55] Kelly Linden: but probably by a fair bit.
[09:55] Void Singer: so "not in sight" k =)
[09:56] Stickman Resident (stickman): Time's almost up.
[09:56] Kelly Linden: 4 minute warning!
[09:57] Opensource Obscure: I noticed something of interest for scripters today in https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Special:RecentChanges
[09:57] Opensource Obscure: lots of new pages in an apparent effort to re- categorize library scripts
[09:57] Kelly Linden: ? I'm not seeing it?
[09:58] Stickman Resident (stickman): All the "cat" pages near the bottom, I think.
[09:58] Opensource Obscure: all those Cat-pages yes
[09:58] Kelly Linden: Oh by Palisade?
[09:58] Void Singer: inteerseting
[09:58] Kelly Linden: I wonder why he isn't just using the categories functionality
[09:59] Void Singer: placeholders maybe? all those are in a category atm
[09:59] Kelly Linden: oh I see
[09:59] Opensource Obscure: Why collect complex examples here? Well, there are many scripts that have become buried in the old forum Scripting Library, the 2010 library archive, or the current LSL Scripting Library; were lost with the death of the early scripting forums; or sit idle in inventories that could be useful and should be more accessible.

Other scripters may be in the same situation. This wiki is a well-suited medium for a script library. Feel free to add your scripts to the script library by creating new pages for them and linking to those pages here. Note that there are many more scripts in the LSL Library here, but you can't get to them if you don't know they exist, because they are subpages now, instead of an automatically updated category. Good luck searching.

[10:00] Opensource Obscure: ( https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Category:LSL_Categorized_Library)
[10:01] Kelly Linden: All right, I'm out of time for today.
[10:01] Qie Niangao: thanks Kelly
[10:01] Opensource Obscure: thanks for the meeting Kelly
[10:01] Draconis Neurocam: take care kelly
[10:01] Opensource Obscure: take care everybody
[10:01] Latif Khalifa: thank you for your time Kelly
[10:02] Kelly Linden: I'll get the last bugs worked out of the jira SCR project, email me if you want on the trusted list, and I'll write up a how to on finding the backlog.
[10:02] Melchizedek Blauvelt: thanks for having us Kelly
[10:02] Void Singer vows to find that squeeky duck sound and throttle it's owner

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