View source for Simulator User Group/Transcripts/2012.01.10

[[Simulator_User_Group]]
{|
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.01.06|Prev 2012.01.06]]
| [[Simulator_User_Group/Transcripts/2012.01.13|Next 2012.01.13]]
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== List of Speakers ==
{|
|<font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b></font>
|<font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b></font>
|<font color=#00b55a><b>Fancy Detector</b></font>
|-
|<font color=#00b5b5><b>Flip Idlemind</b></font>
|<font color=#008d8d><b>Ima Mechanique</b></font>
|<font color=#8d008d><b>Jonathan Yap</b></font>
|-
|<font color=#00468d><b>JoyofRLC Acker</b></font>
|<font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b></font>
|<font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b></font>
|-
|<font color=#0000b5><b>Kaluura Boa</b></font>
|<font color=#004400><b>Kelly Linden</b></font>
|<font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b></font>
|-
|<font color=#5ab500><b>Latif Khalifaafter</b></font>
|<font color=#b5005a><b>Lestat Demain</b></font>
|<font color=#b50000><b>Liisa Runo</b></font>
|-
|<font color=#b55a00><b>NeoBokrug Elytis</b></font>
|<font color=#46008d><b>Qie Niangao</b></font>
|<font color=#8d0046><b>Rex Cronon</b></font>
|-
|<font color=#b500b5><b>Sahkolihaa Contepomi</b></font>
|<font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b></font>
|<font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b></font>
|-
|}

== Transcript ==
[11:59] <font color=#b5005a><b>Lestat Demain</b><nowiki>: incoming linden!!!</nowiki></font>

[11:59] <font color=#b500b5><b>Sahkolihaa Contepomi</b><nowiki>: It's an Andrew.</nowiki></font>

[11:59] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: as requested, made a mesh sofa</nowiki></font>

[12:00] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: Hello</nowiki></font>

[12:00] <font color=#b5005a><b>Lestat Demain</b><nowiki>: hiya</nowiki></font>

[12:00] <font color=#0000b5><b>Kaluura Boa</b><nowiki>: Nice cut cube... =^_^=</nowiki></font>

[12:00] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: Ave Andrew</nowiki></font>

[12:00] <font color=#00b5b5><b>Flip Idlemind</b><nowiki>: Hey guize</nowiki></font>

[12:00] <font color=#808080><b>Meeter</b><nowiki>: Welcome to the Server User Group</nowiki></font>

[12:00] <font color=#00b55a><b>Fancy Detector</b><nowiki>: Simon Linden has arrived!</nowiki></font>

[12:01] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: This thing doesn't work</nowiki></font>

[12:01] <font color=#b500b5><b>Sahkolihaa Contepomi</b><nowiki>: No room to sit here. o_O</nowiki></font>

[12:01] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: Yeah</nowiki></font>

[12:01] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: touch sofa to change color... and there's no sit script, because it has proper physic</nowiki></font>

[12:01] <font color=#b5005a><b>Lestat Demain</b><nowiki>: your ass is too fat try another spot</nowiki></font>

[12:02] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: so you can sit anywhere you aim at it</nowiki></font>

[12:02] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: click carefully</nowiki></font>

[12:02] <font color=#b500b5><b>Sahkolihaa Contepomi</b><nowiki>: .... woo, rainbow.</nowiki></font>

[12:02] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: Thanks for the sofas Vincent</nowiki></font>

[12:02] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: np</nowiki></font>

[12:02] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: Musiccal chair!</nowiki></font>

[12:02] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: gawd, I can't type... Musical chairs!</nowiki></font>

[12:03] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: me feels like a Gipsy</nowiki></font>

[12:03] <font color=#b500b5><b>Sahkolihaa Contepomi</b><nowiki>: Heh, hey Simon.</nowiki></font>

[12:03] <font color=#5ab500><b>Latif Khalifaafter</b><nowiki>: "No room to sit here, try another spot."'s finally lol</nowiki></font>

[12:03] <font color=#00b55a><b>Fancy Detector</b><nowiki>: Kelly Linden has arrived!</nowiki></font>

[12:03] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: Wow lotsa Lindens</nowiki></font>

[12:04] <font color=#b5005a><b>Lestat Demain</b><nowiki>: only 3</nowiki></font>

[12:04] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: Lets see... news</nowiki></font>

[12:04] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: Simon, you gotta aim where you want to sit, it got no sit target</nowiki></font>

[12:04] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: second life flying is easy, sitting is hard. don't get sofa's without scritped sits ;)</nowiki></font>

[12:04] <font color=#b500b5><b>Sahkolihaa Contepomi</b><nowiki>: Simon, I think your bake failed.</nowiki></font>

[12:04] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: I'm working on it</nowiki></font>

[12:04] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: hmm I didn't think it would be hard for most people</nowiki></font>

[12:04] <font color=#b5005a><b>Lestat Demain</b><nowiki>: his heads ok</nowiki></font>

[12:04] <font color=#b55a00><b>NeoBokrug Elytis</b><nowiki>: llMultiSitTarget</nowiki></font>

[12:04] <font color=#b55a00><b>NeoBokrug Elytis</b><nowiki>: Heh</nowiki></font>

[12:05] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: and his boots</nowiki></font>

[12:05] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: yeah, we need something like that</nowiki></font>

[12:05] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: The only bit of news I've got is that the topic of eliminating flight height limits popped up again in internal LL discussions</nowiki></font>

[12:05] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: silly one sit per prim</nowiki></font>

[12:05] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: we've discussed them in the past here</nowiki></font>

[12:05] <font color=#b500b5><b>Sahkolihaa Contepomi</b><nowiki>: :o</nowiki></font>

[12:05] <font color=#b500b5><b>Sahkolihaa Contepomi</b><nowiki>: Would be nice to not have to use flight assists.</nowiki></font>

[12:05] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: that too</nowiki></font>

[12:05] <font color=#b5005a><b>Lestat Demain</b><nowiki>: there was no limit in the old days :P</nowiki></font>

[12:06] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: and as I recall the last time I polled the Simulator User Group about eliminating the 200m flight limit the response I got was:</nowiki></font>

[12:06] <font color=#b50000><b>Liisa Runo</b><nowiki>: it been discussed over and over again, everybody always agree: remove the limit</nowiki></font>

[12:06] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: "go ahead and remove it, I don't care about my flight assist" and "make it an option"</nowiki></font>

[12:06] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: Yup.</nowiki></font>

[12:06] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: just kill the limit and be done with it ;)</nowiki></font>

[12:06] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: "Why haven't you done it already?" :P</nowiki></font>

[12:06] <font color=#b500b5><b>Sahkolihaa Contepomi</b><nowiki>: Removing needs for a flight assist = less scripts. :)</nowiki></font>

[12:06] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: The deployment or enabling of it will be exciting as people with working flight assists get sent into orbit</nowiki></font>

[12:06] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: Rumor has it there is some sort of flight limit at 4096. Is that new?</nowiki></font>

[12:07] <font color=#b5005a><b>Lestat Demain</b><nowiki>: doesnt make much sense having a 4096 ceiling and not being able to get there</nowiki></font>

[12:07] <font color=#0000b5><b>Kaluura Boa</b><nowiki>: =^_^=</nowiki></font>

[12:07] <font color=#b500b5><b>Sahkolihaa Contepomi</b><nowiki>: I only know of the prim rez limit at 4096</nowiki></font>

[12:07] <font color=#b500b5><b>Sahkolihaa Contepomi</b><nowiki>: Or well, 'move' limit.</nowiki></font>

[12:07] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: but make parcel bans extend vertically to infinity</nowiki></font>

[12:07] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: Any flight limit at 4096 isn't a server-side limit.</nowiki></font>

[12:07] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: that sounds more of a rumor, Andrew</nowiki></font>

[12:07] <font color=#00b5b5><b>Flip Idlemind</b><nowiki>: You're right, it's viewer side. It's part of, lemme look...</nowiki></font>

[12:07] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: ok a vicious rumor</nowiki></font>

[12:08] <font color=#00b5b5><b>Flip Idlemind</b><nowiki>: interpolateLinearMotion()</nowiki></font>

[12:08] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: Ia there such a thing as a benign rumor?</nowiki></font>

[12:08] <font color=#00b5b5><b>Flip Idlemind</b><nowiki>: in llviewerobject.cpp</nowiki></font>

[12:08] <font color=#00b5b5><b>Flip Idlemind</b><nowiki>: It won't let any object (including you) go over 4096</nowiki></font>

[12:08] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: Doesn't the physics simulation stop at 4096?</nowiki></font>

[12:09] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: not sure</nowiki></font>

[12:09] <font color=#b5005a><b>Lestat Demain</b><nowiki>: scripts do</nowiki></font>

[12:09] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: Object can't go above 4096 anyway.</nowiki></font>

[12:09] <font color=#0000b5><b>Kaluura Boa</b><nowiki>: Avatars can...</nowiki></font>

[12:09] <font color=#0000b5><b>Kaluura Boa</b><nowiki>: Which is stupid...</nowiki></font>

[12:09] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: The physics world simulation's "broadphase collision detection" system is optimized to happen in a box, and that box's height is set to 4096</nowiki></font>

[12:10] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: so objects moving outside of the box may have rather expensive consequences for computing object collisions</nowiki></font>

[12:10] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: That's funny my personal record for altitude is 150K M and -2500 M</nowiki></font>

[12:10] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: well, avatars are allowed to go outside of the box (as I recall)</nowiki></font>

[12:10] <font color=#b55a00><b>NeoBokrug Elytis</b><nowiki>: The challenge is thinking outside the box.</nowiki></font>

[12:10] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: so if a 4096 limit was introduced it was "new" (in the last few years ;-)</nowiki></font>

[12:11] <font color=#b5005a><b>Lestat Demain</b><nowiki>: yers my viewscreen goes black...</nowiki></font>

[12:11] <font color=#8d0046><b>Rex Cronon</b><nowiki>: greetings all</nowiki></font>

[12:11] <font color=#00b5b5><b>Flip Idlemind</b><nowiki>: I'll say this though. When I was very new, I fell off some really tall building or something, and it was very disturbing and confusing that I couldn't fly back up</nowiki></font>

[12:11] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: Anyway, the simulator allows avatars to go outside the box, and we just eat any collision cost consequences, but those only appear to be theoretical</nowiki></font>

[12:12] <font color=#b5005a><b>Lestat Demain</b><nowiki>: theoretical collisions?</nowiki></font>

[12:12] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: I've never seen a simulator lagging bad for avatars up high, but it is something that Havok warns us about.</nowiki></font>

[12:12] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: Before we carried away.... any news for today?</nowiki></font>

[12:12] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: Simon or Kelly, any news? I don't have any more.</nowiki></font>

[12:13] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: I have one tidbit ...</nowiki></font>

[12:13] <font color=#8d008d><b>Jonathan Yap</b><nowiki>: Andrew, it wasn't clear -- was your news that the fly limit is finally being removed?</nowiki></font>

[12:13] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: The CoarseLocationUpdate message, the one that drives the mini-map, was fixed up yesterday</nowiki></font>

[12:13] <font color=#8d008d><b>Jonathan Yap</b><nowiki>: \o/ Simon</nowiki></font>

[12:13] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: Fixed how?</nowiki></font>

[12:13] <font color=#00b5b5><b>Flip Idlemind</b><nowiki>: Fixed up as in people way up in the sky won't show up as under ground?</nowiki></font>

[12:13] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: I found the problem that was causing any AVs aboue 1020 m to get reported with a zero height</nowiki></font>

[12:13] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: What was broken? >_></nowiki></font>

[12:14] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: Math :(</nowiki></font>

[12:14] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: No, just that it came up again internally. There aren't any Linden's arguing that we should keep the 200m flight limit.</nowiki></font>

[12:14] <font color=#b500b5><b>Sahkolihaa Contepomi</b><nowiki>: That's actually been fixed?</nowiki></font>

[12:14] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: So the mini-map up and down pointers will be correct soon</nowiki></font>

[12:14] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: You mean the old problem where it overflows to zero?</nowiki></font>

[12:14] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: Yeah, that one</nowiki></font>

[12:14] <font color=#b50000><b>Liisa Runo</b><nowiki>: fixed server side of viewer side?</nowiki></font>

[12:14] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: Server side</nowiki></font>

[12:14] <font color=#8d008d><b>Jonathan Yap</b><nowiki>: That's awesome news</nowiki></font>

[12:14] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: There is still a viewer problem, however</nowiki></font>

[12:14] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: ahh nice, finally</nowiki></font>

[12:14] <font color=#b55a00><b>NeoBokrug Elytis</b><nowiki>: Needs to be rolled out?</nowiki></font>

[12:14] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: how can you fix it when height is 1 byte multiplied by 4?</nowiki></font>

[12:15] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: SVC-7560?</nowiki></font>

[12:15] <font color=#808080><b>JIRA-helper</b><nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7560</font>

<font color=#808080><nowiki>[#SVC-7560] coarse location update message has a limited z resolution</nowiki></font>

[12:15] <font color=#b5005a><b>Lestat Demain</b><nowiki>: oh great i can finally have an acurrate Z pointer</nowiki></font>

[12:15] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: It's OK for the basic up / down check, but the viewer doesn't seem to get it right when both AVs are up high, above 1022 m</nowiki></font>

[12:15] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: Simon, it's protocol limit</nowiki></font>

[12:15] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: What was the fix?</nowiki></font>

[12:15] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: Right - the data is packed into one byte</nowiki></font>

[12:15] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: So we have 0 to 255</nowiki></font>

[12:16] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: unless you want to change coarse update message</nowiki></font>

[12:16] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: And it was multiplied by 4 in the viewer I think</nowiki></font>

[12:16] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: That is multiplied by 4 to be your basic rough altitude - 0 to (255*4) or 1020</nowiki></font>

[12:16] <font color=#b5005a><b>Lestat Demain</b><nowiki>: hey can we have the no script zones in the sandboxes returned to the way they used to work?...as in all crap can enter but none exits?</nowiki></font>

[12:16] <font color=#b50000><b>Liisa Runo</b><nowiki>: (i just noticed we have pile of new categories in JIRA, even display names have their own category now^^)</nowiki></font>

[12:16] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: Why was the errored limit at 768m then?</nowiki></font>

[12:17] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: Anything above 1020 is 255, technically called "really high" :P</nowiki></font>

[12:17] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: lols</nowiki></font>

[12:17] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: Any one above 768m would be reported at 0m before.</nowiki></font>

[12:17] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: naa... 1,000,000 is too high</nowiki></font>

[12:17] <font color=#8d008d><b>Jonathan Yap</b><nowiki>: So your fix was to send 255 and not 0 for "really high" cases?</nowiki></font>

[12:17] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: I don't know about 768m, Kadah, but I found a math error with the high numbers</nowiki></font>

[12:17] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: So how can you fix that? You cannot just change multiplier and break every viewer in existance</nowiki></font>

[12:17] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: Yes Jonathan</nowiki></font>

[12:18] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: The fix I made does the right math so above 1020 gets sent to the viewer as a value of 255</nowiki></font>

[12:18] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: used to go to 0 instead of 255, I take it</nowiki></font>

[12:18] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: ah i see so if av >= 1024m the height get reported as 1024</nowiki></font>

[12:18] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: Which means they will report as below you when you're above 1020 as well? o.o</nowiki></font>

[12:19] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: Andrew, yeah it was 0</nowiki></font>

[12:19] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: Kadah, it would fix the most common case, break some others</nowiki></font>

[12:19] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: Still, the protocol has limited resolution. The only way to fix that is to indroduce a source of info with more bits.</nowiki></font>

[12:19] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: But I think I mentioned taht the viewer is still funky - I had 2 AVs at the same height, above 1020, and it wasn't showing dots, but chevrons pointing down</nowiki></font>

[12:19] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: it is really much of a bit problem to have 2 byte than 1?</nowiki></font>

[12:19] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: Simon, that's because viewer things that they are at 1024</nowiki></font>

[12:20] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: I may follow that up, or if I don't have time, punt it to the viewer bugs</nowiki></font>

[12:20] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: Could we add another field to the message with the proper height?</nowiki></font>

[12:20] <font color=#b500b5><b>Sahkolihaa Contepomi</b><nowiki>: Well, adding another byte would break all viewers, wouldn't it?</nowiki></font>

[12:20] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: meh</nowiki></font>

[12:20] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: update anyway</nowiki></font>

[12:20] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: so if you fly at 1500 and somone is at 2000, you minimap will show them below you</nowiki></font>

[12:20] <font color=#8d008d><b>Jonathan Yap</b><nowiki>: Depends on it the protocol is extendable or not</nowiki></font>

[12:20] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: it's only a mini map</nowiki></font>

[12:20] <font color=#b5005a><b>Lestat Demain</b><nowiki>: and radars</nowiki></font>

[12:20] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: Changing that message isn't easy -- the hassle has out-weighed the cosmetic benefits, which is why it hasn't been fixed in so long</nowiki></font>

[12:21] <font color=#b55a00><b>NeoBokrug Elytis</b><nowiki>: New protocols, tack a 2 on the end of it. :)</nowiki></font>

[12:21] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: it fill fix case when you are below 1024</nowiki></font>

[12:21] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: yeah, maybe it's time</nowiki></font>

[12:21] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: Yes, changint the existing protocol would break old viewers. We'd have to add a new protocol. Perhaps a web-service type rather than using UDP packets.</nowiki></font>

[12:21] <font color=#b55a00><b>NeoBokrug Elytis</b><nowiki>: Same with llFunctions. :)</nowiki></font>

[12:21] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: According to Soft it wouldnt</nowiki></font>

[12:21] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: Andrew, you don't want web service for coarse update :)</nowiki></font>

[12:21] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: udp was made for this</nowiki></font>

[12:21] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: it's sent quite often and it doesnt matter if it gets lost</nowiki></font>

[12:21] <font color=#b5005a><b>Lestat Demain</b><nowiki>: lol yeh i tried that with a normal radar and it doesnt really work</nowiki></font>

[12:21] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: SVC-7560 is the jira for this</nowiki></font>

[12:22] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: your're right Latif</nowiki></font>

[12:22] <font color=#00b5b5><b>Flip Idlemind</b><nowiki>: I'll say this...if you're holding an event at high altitude, and someone's causing a problem, and you try to eject them from the "Nearby People" list, but the list is empty because no one is nearby because everyone is "at 0 height"...</nowiki></font>

[12:22] <font color=#00b5b5><b>Flip Idlemind</b><nowiki>: Very frustrating. And, true story</nowiki></font>

[12:22] <font color=#8d008d><b>Jonathan Yap</b><nowiki>: Is there any place in the packet you can add a nibble for range extension?</nowiki></font>

[12:22] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: yup</nowiki></font>

[12:22] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: There's one other related change I haven't made yet in this area ... the simulator currently sends the coarse updates every 2 seconds</nowiki></font>

[12:22] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: I'm not sure. I'll have to examine the packet fields</nowiki></font>

[12:22] <font color=#b500b5><b>Sahkolihaa Contepomi</b><nowiki>: I'm sure some viewers have 'fixes' in place for that, FLIP.</nowiki></font>

[12:22] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: I get that a lot at Race Tracks sim, where we have 12 tracks spread out across in the sky</nowiki></font>

[12:22] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: I was thinking of slowing that down when the region slows down ... a small step to lighten the load when we're lagging</nowiki></font>

[12:23] <font color=#00b5b5><b>Flip Idlemind</b><nowiki>: Maybe some do, but what if the person with the actual power to eject people is on an official viewer</nowiki></font>

[12:23] <font color=#b55a00><b>NeoBokrug Elytis</b><nowiki>: Hahah yeah, if everyones rubberbanding, no need to update that they're in the same position.</nowiki></font>

[12:23] <font color=#b500b5><b>Sahkolihaa Contepomi</b><nowiki>: FLIP - True.</nowiki></font>

[12:23] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: Or send another 'new' packet giving the high nibble of positions? Perhaps ever 5th regular packet?</nowiki></font>

[12:24] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: Simon it gets exponentially more expensive with more people in the sim. Perhaps factor that one in too?</nowiki></font>

[12:24] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: 6 of those tracks are above 1024</nowiki></font>

[12:24] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: Interesting point, Latif .... I'll think about that</nowiki></font>

[12:25] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: my thinking is if you're sendting one packet to two agents avery two seconds, no big deal, but with say 40 it adds up</nowiki></font>

[12:25] <font color=#b500b5><b>Sahkolihaa Contepomi</b><nowiki>: Perhaps add some system that doesn't send an update unless they actually move?</nowiki></font>

[12:25] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: It definitely does add load</nowiki></font>

[12:25] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: Also, it should be possible to only send the packets when the info changes significantly.</nowiki></font>

[12:25] <font color=#8d008d><b>Jonathan Yap</b><nowiki>: You have to send updates periodically for new arrivals</nowiki></font>

[12:26] <font color=#00b5b5><b>Flip Idlemind</b><nowiki>: Yeah, otherwise my...</nowiki></font>

[12:26] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: Actually, each avatar gets</nowiki></font>

[12:26] <font color=#00b5b5><b>Flip Idlemind</b><nowiki>: "...Has arrived!"</nowiki></font>

[12:26] <font color=#8d0046><b>Rex Cronon</b><nowiki>: why don't avatats stop rubberbanding if the ave moves more than 1m with no updates?</nowiki></font>

[12:26] <font color=#00b5b5><b>Flip Idlemind</b><nowiki>: Thing won't work</nowiki></font>

[12:26] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: gets a customized packet. There can be avatar-specific info there.</nowiki></font>

[12:26] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: The problem is that the worse case is when everyone is running around, dragging havock to it;s knees</nowiki></font>

[12:27] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: and requireing those updates</nowiki></font>

[12:27] <font color=#8d008d><b>Jonathan Yap</b><nowiki>: Would it be possible in the long term to have packet versioning? That way "New Viewer" could tell the server to use V2 of a given packet type</nowiki></font>

[12:27] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: so glad you didn't use Skyrim's knee joke</nowiki></font>

[12:27] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: Jonathan, the problem is not adding an extra block to CoarseLocationUpdate</nowiki></font>

[12:27] <font color=#004400><b>Kelly Linden</b><nowiki>: ImprovedCoarseLocationUpdate</nowiki></font>

[12:28] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: isnlt the position packed just generated once, then send to everyone?</nowiki></font>

[12:28] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: The CoarseLocationUPdate messages are a bit of the load, but not the majority, so I'm not sure how much time and effort is needed. If it gets too complex, it would be better to spend the time on something else</nowiki></font>

[12:28] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: the problem in this case is more that this packet is high-volume</nowiki></font>

[12:28] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: Make CoarseLocationUpdate a cap :o</nowiki></font>

[12:28] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: and it gets dangereously close to max pack size</nowiki></font>

[12:28] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: But a basic change in the frequency of that update when things gets slow or crowded makes sense and will get us most of the win</nowiki></font>

[12:28] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: Kadah, cap called every 2 seconds? cwazy</nowiki></font>

[12:28] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: how about 1 byte till when avatar is over 1024m, send in 22 byte?</nowiki></font>

[12:28] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: cap servers have trouble staying up as it is</nowiki></font>

[12:28] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: If its a cap, you could send all agents in one go</nowiki></font>

[12:28] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: that way it's half broken for outdated viewers</nowiki></font>

[12:29] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: which was broken anyhow</nowiki></font>

[12:29] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: Kadah, how do you figure? No you need to send to each agent separetely</nowiki></font>

[12:29] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: no you can't send it to all of the cilents s over udp, not as one packet anyway</nowiki></font>

[12:29] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: each cap request is a http connection which is very very expensive compared to fire-and-forget udp packet</nowiki></font>

[12:29] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: I mean each agent can get info for all agents at once instead of one agent per packet</nowiki></font>

[12:29] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: Only other news I have is that we should have new code in the RC channels tomorrow</nowiki></font>

[12:30] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: Kadah, this is how its done now. You get one CoarseLocatiionUpdate packet that has all agents in the sim in it</nowiki></font>

[12:30] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: I was talking about sim having to send those to every agent in the sim</nowiki></font>

[12:30] <font color=#808080><b>Meeter</b><nowiki>: Timecheck : User Group is half over</nowiki></font>

[12:31] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: Ah ok</nowiki></font>

[12:31] <font color=#8d0046><b>Rex Cronon</b><nowiki>: if u have 100 avatars, each needing at least 1000kb, u get 100Mb per packet sent to each ave?</nowiki></font>

[12:31] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: I'm looking at the CoarseLocationUpdate packet format now and I'm not getting any bright ideas on how to fit more resolution there.</nowiki></font>

[12:31] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: coarse is about 1K</nowiki></font>

[12:31] <font color=#8d008d><b>Jonathan Yap</b><nowiki>: No free nibble anywhere in there Andrew?</nowiki></font>

[12:32] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: OH... you haven't mentioned It seems that V1 is now mo longer available</nowiki></font>

[12:32] <font color=#b5005a><b>Lestat Demain</b><nowiki>: got a link for it?</nowiki></font>

[12:32] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: shh... let them kill it off quietly</nowiki></font>

[12:32] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: V1 viewer is not available for download anymore?</nowiki></font>

[12:32] <font color=#b500b5><b>Sahkolihaa Contepomi</b><nowiki>: Doesn't seem to be.</nowiki></font>

[12:32] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: it was removed yesterday</nowiki></font>

[12:32] <font color=#8d008d><b>Jonathan Yap</b><nowiki>: It was yesterday</nowiki></font>

[12:32] <font color=#8d008d><b>Jonathan Yap</b><nowiki>: hmmm</nowiki></font>

[12:32] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: I just looked for it</nowiki></font>

[12:32] <font color=#b500b5><b>Sahkolihaa Contepomi</b><nowiki>: I don't see it on the wiki page.</nowiki></font>

[12:33] <font color=#46008d><b>Qie Niangao</b><nowiki>: V1 incompatible change to inventory result ordering.</nowiki></font>

[12:33] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: nobody uses open object and wear anyway :P</nowiki></font>

[12:33] <font color=#8d008d><b>Jonathan Yap</b><nowiki>: Any update on Svc-378?</nowiki></font>

[12:33] <font color=#808080><b>JIRA-helper</b><nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-378</font>

<font color=#808080><nowiki>[#SVC-378] Role 'Everyone' in new groups should not have ability "Pay group liabilities and receive group dividends"</nowiki></font>

[12:33] <font color=#8d0046><b>Rex Cronon</b><nowiki>: what incompatible chage?</nowiki></font>

[12:33] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: </nowiki>http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/2012/01/09/second-life-viewer-1-23-disappears-due-to-upcoming-incompatible-inventory-protocol-change/</font>

[12:34] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: No update on that yet Jonathan.</nowiki></font>

[12:34] <font color=#00b5b5><b>Flip Idlemind</b><nowiki>: V1 has been on its deathbed for a while. Does this mean it's on its way to the morgue now?</nowiki></font>

[12:34] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: yup</nowiki></font>

[12:34] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: Actually I think it's about time tht V1 was quietly laid to rest.</nowiki></font>

[12:34] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: yup</nowiki></font>

[12:34] <font color=#00b5b5><b>Flip Idlemind</b><nowiki>: Probably for the best</nowiki></font>

[12:34] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: so.... shhh</nowiki></font>

[12:34] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: let it sleep</nowiki></font>

[12:34] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: I think it was an oversight that it wasn't removed from the wiki before.</nowiki></font>

[12:34] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki> places her hand over her heart</nowiki></font>

[12:35] <font color=#b5005a><b>Lestat Demain</b><nowiki>: oh nooo duz this mean i have to scrap my antique viewer collection?</nowiki></font>

[12:35] <font color=#b50000><b>Liisa Runo</b><nowiki>: i think it is about time for LL to fix the 4000+ v3 bugs</nowiki></font>

[12:35] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki> whispers: Can i ask a Question</nowiki></font>

[12:35] <font color=#b50000><b>Liisa Runo</b><nowiki>: ask</nowiki></font>

[12:35] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: no</nowiki></font>

[12:35] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: but ok</nowiki></font>

[12:35] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: Sure don, go ahead.</nowiki></font>

[12:35] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: On the server update concerning sim crossings</nowiki></font>

[12:35] <font color=#8d0046><b>Rex Cronon</b><nowiki>: if v1 is dead, it is quite possible there will be at least a slight reduction in the number of users...</nowiki></font>

[12:35] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: was that grid wide update completed</nowiki></font>

[12:36] <font color=#b55a00><b>NeoBokrug Elytis</b><nowiki>: Until they update their balsa wood and twine PCs.</nowiki></font>

[12:36] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: or was just the blake sea updated</nowiki></font>

[12:36] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: don, you are probably asking about the kernel upgrade. Yes that was completed before Christmas 2011</nowiki></font>

[12:36] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki> shouts: Ok grid wide thanks you</nowiki></font>

[12:36] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: That would explain why it got worse after that >_></nowiki></font>

[12:36] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki> rubs his ear</nowiki></font>

[12:36] <font color=#00468d><b>JoyofRLC Acker</b><nowiki> shouts: Yeah it was quite choppy ut there today</nowiki></font>

[12:37] <font color=#00468d><b>JoyofRLC Acker</b><nowiki> shouts: Not sure what was going on</nowiki></font>

[12:37] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki> looks for ear plugs...</nowiki></font>

[12:37] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki> puts on some ear protectors</nowiki></font>

[12:37] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: because were seeing same additudes in the dire srtait abu haunts sea regions</nowiki></font>

[12:37] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: very poor perpormance</nowiki></font>

[12:38] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: Huh... I wonder if region crossings are affected by the rolling update. Was there one happening today?</nowiki></font>

[12:38] <font color=#00b5b5><b>Flip Idlemind</b><nowiki>: Someone told me that, while playing LR, they were crossing regions and not even noticing it. Is that intentional, accidental, or imaginary? In other words, is there an official, magical, "region crossings will be instant!" feature being planned?</nowiki></font>

[12:38] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: and with bandwith numbers high</nowiki></font>

[12:38] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: Don, what kind of sim was it?</nowiki></font>

[12:38] <font color=#8d0046><b>Rex Cronon</b><nowiki>: ear protection?</nowiki></font>

[12:38] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: open sea</nowiki></font>

[12:38] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: then that's why</nowiki></font>

[12:38] <font color=#00468d><b>JoyofRLC Acker</b><nowiki>: Andrew, i havent been able to chekc yet but the updtes usually finish by 9 or 10 am ... we were racing at 11 am and it was not good.</nowiki></font>

[12:38] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: it's not designed for performance</nowiki></font>

[12:38] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: People are shouting...</nowiki></font>

[12:38] <font color=#00468d><b>JoyofRLC Acker</b><nowiki>: Back to November type performance. It was better when everyone was on holiday LOL</nowiki></font>

[12:39] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: Flip, no there is no magic in the LR regions.</nowiki></font>

[12:39] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: That I know about.</nowiki></font>

[12:39] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: Joy, that might be the answer</nowiki></font>

[12:39] <font color=#0000b5><b>Kaluura Boa</b><nowiki>: But it's true that the border corssings in LR regions are very smooth</nowiki></font>

[12:39] <font color=#b5005a><b>Lestat Demain</b><nowiki>: lack of people perhaps?</nowiki></font>

[12:39] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: could be load</nowiki></font>

[12:40] <font color=#8d008d><b>Jonathan Yap</b><nowiki>: Do LR share simhosts with the rest of the grid or are they isolated?</nowiki></font>

[12:40] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: The LR regions may get a boost from being on the same server</nowiki></font>

[12:40] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: What is an example name for an LR region?</nowiki></font>

[12:40] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: Is there a way andrew we can get a staurday morning restart of our sailing sims in dire striagts area</nowiki></font>

[12:40] <font color=#00468d><b>JoyofRLC Acker</b><nowiki>: this afternoon i think the sims we were in were lightly loaded (based on minimpa etc) but we had a few serious border xing issues and huge lag a lot of the time</nowiki></font>

[12:40] <font color=#00468d><b>JoyofRLC Acker</b><nowiki>: this was eastern Blake and norther Sailors Cove</nowiki></font>

[12:41] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: ah, all of the LR regions are called "LR #"</nowiki></font>

[12:41] <font color=#00b5b5><b>Flip Idlemind</b><nowiki>: But you can only get to them through portals. (Well, *I* can't, I imagine you Linden-y people can go anywhere)</nowiki></font>

[12:41] <font color=#b55a00><b>NeoBokrug Elytis</b><nowiki>: Any chance estate owners could get region/server clustering?</nowiki></font>

[12:42] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: no magic that I can see there... the regions are on a small channel, but are not sorted by host in any significant way</nowiki></font>

[12:42] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: yeah, I was wondering about that too, NeoBorkrug</nowiki></font>

[12:42] <font color=#8d008d><b>Jonathan Yap</b><nowiki>: There was an effort recently to move adjacent regions to the same colo, is that progressing?</nowiki></font>

[12:42] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: Any word on getting the LR features for residents?</nowiki></font>

[12:42] <font color=#00b5b5><b>Flip Idlemind</b><nowiki>: ^ This</nowiki></font>

[12:42] <font color=#b55a00><b>NeoBokrug Elytis</b><nowiki>: That'd be nice. :) I own 8 full, and 4 homesteads.</nowiki></font>

[12:42] <font color=#b55a00><b>NeoBokrug Elytis</b><nowiki>: THAT</nowiki></font>

[12:43] <font color=#b55a00><b>NeoBokrug Elytis</b><nowiki>: As a scripter, I am frothing at the mouth for these new features.</nowiki></font>

[12:43] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: No word on that yet.</nowiki></font>

[12:44] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: Yes, they would be quite useful for building more immersive experiences in SL.</nowiki></font>

[12:44] <font color=#0000b5><b>Kaluura Boa</b><nowiki>: I hate LL secret projects... It always means bad suprise at the end...</nowiki></font>

[12:44] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: Are the inventory changes live anywhere yet? Aditi?</nowiki></font>

[12:44] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: What "inventory changes" would those be Kadah?</nowiki></font>

[12:44] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: rodvik said in the blog post that in order to use those you would have to get some sort of developer certificate</nowiki></font>

[12:45] <font color=#00b500><b>Kadah Coba</b><nowiki>: The ones for this </nowiki>https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/viewer-development/changeset/d327dcc8ae51</font>

[12:45] <font color=#8d008d><b>Jonathan Yap</b><nowiki>: The one that where you have a 50% chance in an old viewer of having a copy & wear operation fail</nowiki></font>

[12:45] <font color=#46008d><b>Qie Niangao</b><nowiki>: yeah, Latif, that seems braindamaged, to try to control abuse by screening *creator* rather than *owner* (specifically landowner, for llTeleportAgent, at least)</nowiki></font>

[12:46] <font color=#b500b5><b>Sahkolihaa Contepomi</b><nowiki>: ... lol ' // Ignore any "you're going to break this item" messages. '</nowiki></font>

[12:46] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: developer certificate sounds pretty good.</nowiki></font>

[12:46] <font color=#8d0046><b>Rex Cronon</b><nowiki>: not to everybody</nowiki></font>

[12:46] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: nobody uses copy & wear when opening object contents anyway :P</nowiki></font>

[12:46] <font color=#b50000><b>Liisa Runo</b><nowiki>: _nobody_</nowiki></font>

[12:46] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: are you everybody, Rex?</nowiki></font>

[12:46] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: :P</nowiki></font>

[12:47] <font color=#46008d><b>Qie Niangao</b><nowiki>: I don't care one way or another about "developer certificate", but it's not an effective way to control abuse, when the very same script is abusive or benign, depending on owner.</nowiki></font>

[12:47] <font color=#8d0046><b>Rex Cronon</b><nowiki>: i am part of it, vincent</nowiki></font>

[12:47] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: No, I don't know where those inventory service changes are at.</nowiki></font>

[12:47] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: I'm sure you'll be fine</nowiki></font>

[12:47] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: Rex, you can use fewer and fewer things in sl it seems. Meshes, and now LSL functions...</nowiki></font>

[12:48] <font color=#8d0046><b>Rex Cronon</b><nowiki>: looks that way</nowiki></font>

[12:48] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: Developer Certificate for writing LSL code? You're kidding right?</nowiki></font>

[12:48] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: Kall, I'm sure there's more to come</nowiki></font>

[12:48] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: Kallista for new Linden Realms stuff</nowiki></font>

[12:48] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: like forced teleport and hud attach</nowiki></font>

[12:48] <font color=#8d0046><b>Rex Cronon</b><nowiki>: not for writing, for using "special" functions in lsl</nowiki></font>

[12:48] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: There are some serious permissions issues to sort out before we could release the new features. It would be a disaster to send them out without some checks and balances</nowiki></font>

[12:48] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: Next you're going to require a developer Certificate to build things?</nowiki></font>

[12:49] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: think of this way... if you're tired of random greifers... why we must not do something about it?</nowiki></font>

[12:49] <font color=#8d0046><b>Rex Cronon</b><nowiki>: kallista. that is already in pleace if u want to make meshes</nowiki></font>

[12:49] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: Because you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.</nowiki></font>

[12:49] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: and of course... all of those new functions aren't going to be script friendly for newbies</nowiki></font>

[12:50] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: so... what's the problem?</nowiki></font>

[12:50] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: some people cannot upload meshes, like Rex, due to the paymant info demand</nowiki></font>

[12:50] <font color=#46008d><b>Qie Niangao</b><nowiki>: I'm fine if only The Blessed can *use* a script with llTeleportAgent, but constraining who writes the script is not relevant.</nowiki></font>

[12:50] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: then Rex can't be trusted! :P</nowiki></font>

[12:50] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: This used to be the land that the users built. Pertty soon it will be second Blue Mars.</nowiki></font>

[12:50] <font color=#8d0046><b>Rex Cronon</b><nowiki>: what latif said is true</nowiki></font>

[12:50] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: Vincent, the problem is that you can justify about everything in SL with "but griefers will use it"</nowiki></font>

[12:51] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: of course but you can't easily get it back once you get banned for it</nowiki></font>

[12:51] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: Andrew if i could on the reseting of the protected wates in ABU haughts area and dire strait could we have a satirday or late friday night reset in those regions a server question</nowiki></font>

[12:51] <font color=#b55a00><b>NeoBokrug Elytis</b><nowiki>: I don't have a problem with limiting advanced LSL functions to people who know what they're doing in SL.</nowiki></font>

[12:51] <font color=#8d0046><b>Rex Cronon</b><nowiki>: how nice when "trust" can be bought:)</nowiki></font>

[12:51] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: You mean justify blocking just about everything in SL</nowiki></font>

[12:51] <font color=#b55a00><b>NeoBokrug Elytis</b><nowiki>: Rather than some day - account coming in and explodion your region.</nowiki></font>

[12:51] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: I was kidding, Rex</nowiki></font>

[12:51] <font color=#b5b500><b>Latif Khalifa</b><nowiki>: like every internet censorship law is against "child porn", so you cannot argue against the censorship. just used as a strawman</nowiki></font>

[12:51] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: We can probably argue about this for the remaining 10 minutes, or possibly bring up something else</nowiki></font>

[12:51] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: yes please</nowiki></font>

[12:51] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: don, could you rephrase that question?</nowiki></font>

[12:51] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki> whispers: moving on!</nowiki></font>

[12:51] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: thats was my point</nowiki></font>

[12:52] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: You want some regions to be restarted on Friday/Saturday?</nowiki></font>

[12:52] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: Well that means ther you 'might' be financially liable for your actions. That is one definition of trust.</nowiki></font>

[12:52] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: yes please</nowiki></font>

[12:52] <font color=#b5005a><b>Lestat Demain</b><nowiki>: yes can u change the sandbox settings in goguen?</nowiki></font>

[12:52] <font color=#b55a00><b>NeoBokrug Elytis</b><nowiki>: 99.5% of the LSL functions are still free for everyone to use, and a function that has a significant impact on user experience needs to be evaluated, and maybe even limited to people who've proved themselves.</nowiki></font>

[12:52] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: ah good point, Kall</nowiki></font>

[12:52] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: the demand and activite will be greater on the weekend</nowiki></font>

[12:52] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: aye</nowiki></font>

[12:52] <font color=#b55a00><b>NeoBokrug Elytis</b><nowiki>: Bring up something else please. :P</nowiki></font>

[12:53] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: we used to call for resets i was wondering if we could just schedule them</nowiki></font>

[12:53] <font color=#b5005a><b>Lestat Demain</b><nowiki>: so the safe zone actually eats griefer stuff instead of letting them sit on the border replicating?</nowiki></font>

[12:53] <font color=#b50000><b>Liisa Runo</b><nowiki>: SVC-7033</nowiki></font>

[12:53] <font color=#808080><b>JIRA-helper</b><nowiki>: </nowiki>http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7033</font>

<font color=#808080><nowiki>[#SVC-7033] Fix old sandboxes</nowiki></font>

[12:53] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: don, I don't think we offer a "restart on schedule" option for mainland regions</nowiki></font>

[12:54] <font color=#8d0046><b>Rex Cronon</b><nowiki>: if it crahses, then it will restart;)</nowiki></font>

[12:55] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: ok ill go back to calling it in i guess getting them reset</nowiki></font>

[12:55] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: wheres that notecard mmmmmmmmm</nowiki></font>

[12:55] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: lol</nowiki></font>

[12:55] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: That might be a reasonable request for a feature</nowiki></font>

[12:55] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: with the some limit on the number of restarts.</nowiki></font>

[12:55] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: What regions were those don? I'm not finding "ABU Heights" or "Dire Straits"</nowiki></font>

[12:55] <font color=#808080><b>Meeter</b><nowiki>: Timecheck : User Group is almost over</nowiki></font>

[12:55] <font color=#00468d><b>JoyofRLC Acker</b><nowiki>: NeoBokrug ... what eaxctly are yu suggesting:? m sorry I think I may have missed part of what you were saying.</nowiki></font>

[12:56] <font color=#00b5b5><b>Flip Idlemind</b><nowiki>: I went AFK for a second but Im back. I don't really like the idea of "only special people can script", even if it applies to a tiny fraction of features.</nowiki></font>

[12:56] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: Liisa - I'm not sure who would be responsible for that bug, but I'll point it out to one of the people that does in-world content</nowiki></font>

[12:56] <font color=#00b5b5><b>Flip Idlemind</b><nowiki>: Buuuuuut arbitrarily teleporting people and attaching stuff to them isn't good either, of course</nowiki></font>

[12:56] <font color=#00468d><b>JoyofRLC Acker</b><nowiki>: FLIP I agree ... quis custodiet and all that</nowiki></font>

[12:56] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: after the rolling resets what we find by sunday the sims need a reset</nowiki></font>

[12:56] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: Flip as far as I can tell the actual context was Viewer devlopment.</nowiki></font>

[12:56] <font color=#b50000><b>Liisa Runo</b><nowiki>: dont stress it, ill send ticket to michael some day and explain the situation to him, im sure he will put the proper parcel settings in</nowiki></font>

[12:57] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: Which seems to have been generalized</nowiki></font>

[12:57] <font color=#b5005a><b>Lestat Demain</b><nowiki>: lol this reminds me of dodgeball</nowiki></font>

[12:57] <font color=#00b5b5><b>Flip Idlemind</b><nowiki>: Hmm, well when I left we were still on LR features</nowiki></font>

[12:57] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: That's who I had in mind too :)</nowiki></font>

[12:57] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: thanks well give support a call see if we can perhaps at least get the regions names posted in the office or a vurtuail noteboard you may have</nowiki></font>

[12:58] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: don, I'm curious: what were the region names again?</nowiki></font>

[12:58] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: it the dire strait areas abu haunt area</nowiki></font>

[12:59] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: there a big island in the middle north of the blake sea</nowiki></font>

[12:59] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: a fairly new sea region</nowiki></font>

[12:59] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: oh, I thought those were the region names</nowiki></font>

[12:59] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: no theres like 20 some sims at least</nowiki></font>

[12:59] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: but the region name is something more like "Blake Sea - Somethingorother"?</nowiki></font>

[13:00] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: ah ok, you're talking about the whole Blake Sea</nowiki></font>

[13:00] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: no its dire strait</nowiki></font>

[13:00] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: its not part of the blake sea</nowiki></font>

[13:00] <font color=#00008d><b>don Berithos</b><nowiki>: ill send you a phoo</nowiki></font>

[13:00] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: Huh. I can't find a region named "Dire *"</nowiki></font>

[13:00] <font color=#808080><b>Meeter</b><nowiki>: Thank you for coming to the Server User Group</nowiki></font>

[13:01] <font color=#005ab5><b>Kallista Destiny</b><nowiki>: Thank you for a most enlightening meeting</nowiki></font>

[13:01] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: Well, I'm intrested in why the region crossings would have gone bad in Blake Sea again.</nowiki></font>

[13:01] <font color=#00468d><b>JoyofRLC Acker</b><nowiki>: Andrew ... Ahab's Haunt is at the ctnre</nowiki></font>

[13:01] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: guess she gotta run</nowiki></font>

[13:01] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: I'll try to dig around.</nowiki></font>

[13:01] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: Thanks everyone for coming today and the good chat</nowiki></font>

[13:01] <font color=#8d008d><b>Jonathan Yap</b><nowiki>: Shoot, out of time, I will ask later about an idea I had for CoarseLocation</nowiki></font>

[13:01] <font color=#00468d><b>JoyofRLC Acker</b><nowiki>: Yes me too andrrew</nowiki></font>

[13:01] <font color=#b50000><b>Liisa Runo</b><nowiki>: thanks everybody</nowiki></font>

[13:01] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: but yeah, thanks</nowiki></font>

[13:02] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: Ah ok, I see Ahab's Haunt</nowiki></font>

[13:02] <font color=#00b5b5><b>Flip Idlemind</b><nowiki>: If anyone's wondering what I'm in, it's a scale model of how "tall" sims are vs. how wide they are</nowiki></font>

[13:02] <font color=#8d0046><b>Rex Cronon</b><nowiki>: tc simon, andrew and everybody else. have a nice day all.</nowiki></font>

[13:02] <font color=#00468d><b>JoyofRLC Acker</b><nowiki>: Andrew, I havent had a chance to check the serveer forum etc ... when Ive got up to speed Ill get back to you.</nowiki></font>

[13:02] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: oh I thought you were in jail</nowiki></font>

[13:02] <font color=#440044><b>Andrew Linden</b><nowiki>: Thanks for coming everyone.</nowiki></font>

[13:02] <font color=#5a00b5><b>Vincent Nacon</b><nowiki>: some sort of jail that tease you of freedom at the top</nowiki></font>

[13:02] <font color=#46008d><b>Qie Niangao</b><nowiki>: Thanks all. Have fun.</nowiki></font>

[13:02] <font color=#b500b5><b>Sahkolihaa Contepomi</b><nowiki>: See you, Lindens.</nowiki></font>

[13:03] <font color=#000f44><b>Simon Linden</b><nowiki>: Interesting Flip ... I wonder if there might be some easy features possible by slicing that up better</nowiki></font>

[13:03] <font color=#8d008d><b>Jonathan Yap</b><nowiki>: Thank you everyone</nowiki></font>

[13:03] <font color=#008d8d><b>Ima Mechanique</b><nowiki>: FLIP I thought it was just one of those dance cages you see in clubs ;-)</nowiki></font>

[13:03] <font color=#b5005a><b>Lestat Demain</b><nowiki>: hey u looks like a government worker</nowiki></font>


<br />
[[Simulator_User_Group]]
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