Talk:Geometry and Physics VAG
- For now, I think geometry and physics are too closely related to be split. However, I can certainly understand a perspective that there might be two closely related viewpoints here. Geometry really doesn't need material properity information or have to participate in a physics engine. On the other hand, physics really has not meaning at the user level without something to act on. So in the end, I see geometry that has optional physical properties and a single viewpoint the covers both. Do others have thoughts on this? --Burhop Piccard 19:04, 16 October 2007 (PDT)
- I liked the structure of your VAG and so used it as a template for Scalability and QA VAGs ... well done. :-) --Morgaine Dinova 02:56, 18 October 2007 (PDT)
- Always good to be emulated :-) BTW, I tweaked the usecase part a bit to hopefully give a bit of structure. --Burhop Piccard 06:32, 18 October 2007 (PDT)
- The use of the name VAG is unofficial still. There are issues about it that have gone unanswered as a "group" structure. The use of these "VAGs" in their current state is like force implementation without any design. The concerns are expressed about the VAGs being implemented, but they are not being addressed. If that kind of progress mimics any future software design and implementation, I'd say this already demonstrates that goals won't be followed. I hope that not be the case, and I urge that these VAGs evolve into a methodology that can follow the goals. I think you, Burhop, have put a lot of work into this and it deserves the right attention and implementation. Dzonatas Sol 07:36, 18 October 2007 (PDT)
- Yes, I saw the discussions but didn't want to sit idle while it gets resolved. If VAG changes to something else I'll be glad to update the pages. If a VAT/VAG methodology becomes more clear I would expect us to line up with this too. I think the core information we are collecting now (i.e. usecases, JIRAs, links, etc.) will keep us busy while some of these organizational issues are resolved (as long as you don't take too long :-) --Burhop Piccard 08:26, 18 October 2007 (PDT)
- There is no place to put design related jira issues right now. The projects listed in jira.secondlife.com do not have space for the AWG project. I get the hint from LL that they are pleased to incubate this project, but AWG needs to quickly evolve into its own hosted site. That evolution needs design and consensus. Without such design and consensus, these VAGs will continue to use LL's resources to "keep us busy" while the organization needs to be resolved. It appears a few others understand that hint. =) Where will AWG related jira issues get entered? Dzonatas Sol 08:36, 18 October 2007 (PDT)
- There are some discussions on the content of a VAG/VAT related to the architecture. Essentially, the key point is for the VAG/VAT to be more user than architecture oriented. See http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Talk:Viewpoint_Advocacy_Groups for more information. --Burhop Piccard 15:58, 21 October 2007 (PDT)
List of concerns addressed by this viewpoint
- Burhop, does "Efficient communication of Geometric and physical properties" include client communication efficiency? From the scalability perspective, I'm interested in anything related to reduction or optimization of server->client object traffic, including negociated reductions in that traffic for example. --Morgaine Dinova 01:59, 22 October 2007 (PDT)
- Yes, I think thats a primary driver. One aspect of the viewpoint (in my opinion) is that we want richer and more detailed geometry with more motion and interaction without a perception of sluggishness in the system. The two work against each other so how do you trade off?
- I think there are a several scalability axes here.
- 1.) How does the viewer scale as its geometry engine is overloaded?
- 2.) How does this affect the graphics hardware?
- 3.) How does this affect the network and comunication betweewn servers?
- 4.) How does this scale to different configurations of computer hardware, viewers, network speeds.
- Thinking just of server->client, suppose we have a high power gaming machine as a client. We may want to pump more information to it. On the other hand, if we have a low end computer or a cell phone (gasp!), we will want to optimize the pipeline by sending less/different information. --Burhop Piccard 12:26, 24 October 2007 (PDT)
View Point Modification
There have been a number of VAG and AWG organizational discussions and I think it might be time to reformulate this VAG in light this.
One key thought was to be more user oriented than architecture oriented with an example being a "Builder VAG". So perhaps a "Physical Content creation" VAG makes better sense for this. I would expect this to include bringing in 3D geometric assests from other VWs, user created and professional tools, file formats, etc. It would also include scalability issues (see above). I'm thinking this better follows the sucessful "sculpted prim" work which has engaged people so well. Thoughts? --Burhop Piccard 09:43, 25 October 2007 (PDT)
I've tried to add some one-line use cases to give better feel for what the VAG might be. These are either my own or ones I've discussed with SL content creators. I'm flexible about changing these. Some of the Sculptie Dev people have had some excelent ideas.--Burhop Piccard 16:18, 26 October 2007 (PDT)
Physical Assets (And Geometric)
The Geometric Asset idea is a really good interest for this. I actually see how that could be integrated with MediaWiki with some other ideas on here to bring the efforts of unrelated groups more in-line.
The physical attributes, I had a concern about them. I'm pretty sure there has to be a separate interest for this even if it gets combined together on the record. If there was no virtual world, there would be no concern. There are, however, physics as in math and physics as in real world cause and effect. We can map out real world events with math or like data structure, but to communicate the distinction is hard because of how the features and terms just meshes together tightly. I'm not sure if a wedge is really needed. Instead, COLLADA used "digital asset" for a term. I suggest we use an "AWG Digital Asset" like name to create the distinction of more pure geometric assets and the combined form of all interest that gets put together on the record. That way, in one aspect, we can say the physical attributes are metadata to the Geometric Asset.
- Dzonatas Sol 06:41, 27 October 2007 (PDT)
I think this is a misunderstanding of the usage of meta-data. In general, the software engineering term refers to extrinsic things about a data element, such as access control, or encoding format, not intrinsic content. The physical attributes of an asset, are going to be part of the core model of that asset, not a description of the asset. In general, meata-data is stuff we attach to a resource, object or such to further describe it orthogonally to its primary description.
-- Zha Ewry 09:31, 27 October 2007 (PDT)