https://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:LSL_Protocol/Restrained_Love_Open_Relay_Group/who&feed=atom&action=historyTalk:LSL Protocol/Restrained Love Open Relay Group/who - Revision history2024-03-28T09:27:30ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.36.1https://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:LSL_Protocol/Restrained_Love_Open_Relay_Group/who&diff=1175248&oldid=prevChloe1982 Constantine at 17:46, 13 December 20122012-12-13T17:46:21Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>--[[User:Satomi Ahn|Satomi Ahn]] 10:51, 12 June 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>--[[User:Satomi Ahn|Satomi Ahn]] 10:51, 12 June 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>: We can do that, though I think that !who (!x-who) is sufficient in that it is "who is causing something to happen" - the creator and owner of the object I can already get from the object's UUID. The only thing I can't get is ''who'' is using the object. I prefer to keep this as !who, but if there is pressure for !x-operator I'll go along with it. --[[User:Chloe1982 Constantine|Chloe1982 Constantine]] 23:11, 28 June 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>: We can do that, though I think that !who (!x-who) is sufficient in that it is "who is causing something to happen" - the creator and owner of the object I can already get from the object's UUID. The only thing I can't get is ''who'' is using the object. I prefer to keep this as !who, but if there is pressure for !x-operator I'll go along with it. --[[User:Chloe1982 Constantine|Chloe1982 Constantine]] 23:11, 28 June 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">==Make Re-ask Optional==</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I was looking at the spec and noticed the discussion with respect to a subsequent !x-who being different from the first one received. I'm bothered by this as I see the real world analogy going like the following:</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I am standing next to a set of stocks and beckon you over, perhaps unwisely, you accept, and I lock you in. Then after teasing you for a while I wander off leaving you helpless in the stocks. When I am out of the way, along comes ''Evil Avatar'' who decides to take advantage of your helpless state and starts torturing you mercilessly.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">The above scenario suggests that you shouldn't be asked a second time. Given that toys operate in all sorts of ways and different relays operate in different ways, I recommend we make this requirement to re-ask if the !x-who information changes an option. --[[User:Chloe1982 Constantine|Chloe1982 Constantine]] 09:46, 13 December 2012 (PST)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Chloe1982 Constantinehttps://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:LSL_Protocol/Restrained_Love_Open_Relay_Group/who&diff=1069013&oldid=prevSatomi Ahn: moved Talk:LSL Protocol/Restrained Love Open Relay Group/x-who to Talk:LSL Protocol/Restrained Love Open Relay Group/who: oops2010-10-21T13:43:46Z<p>moved <a href="/wiki/Talk:LSL_Protocol/Restrained_Love_Open_Relay_Group/x-who" class="mw-redirect" title="Talk:LSL Protocol/Restrained Love Open Relay Group/x-who">Talk:LSL Protocol/Restrained Love Open Relay Group/x-who</a> to <a href="/wiki/Talk:LSL_Protocol/Restrained_Love_Open_Relay_Group/who" title="Talk:LSL Protocol/Restrained Love Open Relay Group/who">Talk:LSL Protocol/Restrained Love Open Relay Group/who</a>: oops</p>
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</td></tr></table>Satomi Ahnhttps://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:LSL_Protocol/Restrained_Love_Open_Relay_Group/who&diff=1068973&oldid=prevSatomi Ahn: moved Talk:LSL Protocol/Restrained Life Open Relay Group/x-who to Talk:LSL Protocol/Restrained Love Open Relay Group/x-who: TPV Policy name change for RLV2010-10-21T13:43:01Z<p>moved <a href="/wiki/Talk:LSL_Protocol/Restrained_Life_Open_Relay_Group/x-who" class="mw-redirect" title="Talk:LSL Protocol/Restrained Life Open Relay Group/x-who">Talk:LSL Protocol/Restrained Life Open Relay Group/x-who</a> to <a href="/wiki/Talk:LSL_Protocol/Restrained_Love_Open_Relay_Group/x-who" class="mw-redirect" title="Talk:LSL Protocol/Restrained Love Open Relay Group/x-who">Talk:LSL Protocol/Restrained Love Open Relay Group/x-who</a>: TPV Policy name change for RLV</p>
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</td></tr></table>Satomi Ahnhttps://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:LSL_Protocol/Restrained_Love_Open_Relay_Group/who&diff=416103&oldid=prevChloe1982 Constantine at 23:11, 28 June 20092009-06-28T23:11:47Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Before we replace all the !who by !x-who, I would suggest a better name (because well, if you hear who, the next question would be "Who's who?"). Why not be more explicit with a name like !x-operator? With such a way, it is obvious "who" we are talking about. Otherwise, one could interpret !who as the name of the owner, or that of the creator or who knows?</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Before we replace all the !who by !x-who, I would suggest a better name (because well, if you hear who, the next question would be "Who's who?"). Why not be more explicit with a name like !x-operator? With such a way, it is obvious "who" we are talking about. Otherwise, one could interpret !who as the name of the owner, or that of the creator or who knows?</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>--[[User:Satomi Ahn|Satomi Ahn]] 10:51, 12 June 2009 (UTC)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>--[[User:Satomi Ahn|Satomi Ahn]] 10:51, 12 June 2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">: We can do that, though I think that !who (!x-who) is sufficient in that it is "who is causing something to happen" - the creator and owner of the object I can already get from the object's UUID. The only thing I can't get is ''who'' is using the object. I prefer to keep this as !who, but if there is pressure for !x-operator I'll go along with it. --[[User:Chloe1982 Constantine|Chloe1982 Constantine]] 23:11, 28 June 2009 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Chloe1982 Constantinehttps://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:LSL_Protocol/Restrained_Love_Open_Relay_Group/who&diff=391283&oldid=prevSatomi Ahn: Replacing page with '==Old Discussion==
Old discussion items can be found here.
==New Discussion==
Before we replace all the !who by !x-who, I would sugg...'2009-06-12T10:51:04Z<p>Replacing page with '==Old Discussion== Old discussion items can be found <a href="/wiki/LSL_Protocol/Restrained_Life_Relay/who" title="LSL Protocol/Restrained Life Relay/who">here</a>. ==New Discussion== Before we replace all the !who by !x-who, I would sugg...'</p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">: I came to this page to add something similar to this !who meta-command. But I am not opposed to the proposed mechanism, provided it ensures that there is never an ambiguity on who is the current user (but as you present it, it looks ok).</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">==Old Discussion==</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">: Now imagine you are using a multi-device relay and you are under restrictions from several users through the same device. How should the relay interpret a !release? Should it clear every restriction from the device? Or only those that where issued by the user in the latest !who? I believe both should </del>be <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">made possible (but in a way that won't make the older relays go wrong... Should, in this case, a pratial release be ignored or be interpreted as a full release?).</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Old discussion items can </ins>be <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">found </ins>[[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">LSL_Protocol/Restrained_Life_Relay/who</ins>|<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">here</ins>]]<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:If we can agree on a good spec, I'll try to help you pushing it into the official protocol ^^. Anyway I put this in the TODO list of my multi-relay. :--</del>[[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">User:Satomi Ahn</del>|<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Satomi Ahn</del>]] <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">16:30, 19 February 2009 (UTC)</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:: I am sorry I am not sure whether I understand you correctly: On the one hand you are talking about a multi-device relay and on the other hand you are talking about multiple doms controlling the same device. !release must be implemented on a per device basis. Imagine you are locked up in a cell. Someone griever could simply free you with an attachment that sends !release otherwise, so spoiling </del>all the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">fun.</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">==New Discussion==</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:: For multiple persons controlling the same device, I think the last one should override older settings. It gets way to complicated to understand my non-coders otherwise. The world object should check whether it allows access by another person or not. And the relay can ask the user if she trust the new dom or not.</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Before we replace </ins>all the !who by <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">!x</ins>-<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">who</ins>, I <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">would suggest </ins>a <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">better name </ins>(<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">because well</ins>, if <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">you hear who</ins>, the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">next question </ins>would be "<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Who</ins>'s <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">who?"</ins>). <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Why not </ins>be <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">more explicit with </ins>a <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">name like </ins>!<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">x</ins>-<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">operator? With such </ins>a <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">way</ins>, it is <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">obvious "who" we are talking about</ins>. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Otherwise</ins>, one <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">could interpret </ins>!<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">who </ins>as the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">name </ins>of the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">owner</ins>, or that of the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">creator or </ins>who <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">knows?</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:: We have to keep in mind that </del>!who <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">can be easily faked </del>by <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">untrusted world objects. </del>-<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">-[[User:Maike Short|Maike Short]] 18:36, 19 February 2009 (UTC)</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>--[[User:Satomi Ahn|Satomi Ahn]] 10:<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">51</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">12 June </ins>2009 (UTC)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::Ok</del>, I <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">admit what I have in mind is quite complicated. I was thinking of considering </del>a <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">single device as several virtual devices when controlled by several doms </del>(<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">no risk of faking: if the command comes from another real device, of course I don't want it to allow releasing the commands from another one!). But even without going that far, it would make sense</del>, if <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">restrictions come from several doms on a single device</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">that in certain cases (to be determined by </del>the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">device maker), only the restrictions coming from one dom </del>would be <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">cleared. --[[User:Satomi Ahn|Satomi Ahn]] 22:05, 19 February 2009 (UTC)</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:: We are only !release'ing by object, not by person. We COULD say </del>"<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">release everything this person has" when they !release one... but that</del>'s <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">not very .. er.. realistic... if they have you locked in multiple restrictions (a device in a cage for instance</del>)<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, they can only undo you one-at-a-time</del>.<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">.. and for the !who being faked.. yes it could </del>be<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, but </del>a<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">) you have to have an object with the </del>!<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">who command (by default) so you would have to be able to fake the UUID of an object that has you actively controlled and the UUID of a person... </del>-<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">-[[User:Ilana Debevec|Ilana Debevec]] 23:51, 19 February 2009 (UTC)</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Other point of discussion: when </del>a <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">bunch of commands prefixed by a !who have been ok'ed, should the device assume that every following bunch of commands from the same user will also be accepted? --[[User:Satomi Ahn|Satomi Ahn]] 14:35, 23 February 2009 (UTC)</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">: No</del>, it <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">cannot. Some people do not like to be tpto-ed away or stripped and therefore reject those commands. --[[User:Maike Short|Maike Short]] 20:21, 23 February 2009 (UTC)</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:: I don't understand your point. How can you know the next bunch of commands from the same user will tpto you or strip you? Is it because the previous bunch had an unpleasant result? Oh.. or maybe you say that some ppl block every srip or tp command? Ok... but that's not the issue I wanted to point to (and this precisely </del>is <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">not really an issue!)</del>. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">The problem would be if you accepted @behav=n commands and then</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">later, refused the @behav=y.--[[User:Satomi Ahn|Satomi Ahn]] 22:10, 23 February 2009 (UTC)</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">If no, the device should take care of eventually releasing every restriction in a non-prefixed command (which should work, provided the relay keeps the order of execution for commands issued by a same device).</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">If yes, this makes the relay more complicated, as you have to keep in memory the fact that a user still has restrictions on the wearer. Then either you allow only </del>one <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">user per device to lock the relay (as older relays did for devices: only one device using a relay at a time), or you have to do some very complicated bookkeeping for users, similar as what you do for devices in multidevices-relay (which would give an over-kill, over-bloated, multi-device and multi-user relay</del>!<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">).</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Well, what is your opinion on this? --[[User:Satomi Ahn|Satomi Ahn]] 14:35, 23 February 2009 (UTC)</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">: I strongly advocate only to keep track of one user per device. Things get really complicated if different users have their own restrictions. And I thing that is not how the real world works. Sure, there can be two locks on a door with multi device support. But a second persons operating the same lock </del>as the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">first person with a completely independent set </del>of <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">restrictions is strange. In </del>the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">rare case this is really desired</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">the object can use a second prim </del>or <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">do the book keeping itself. Which is a good idea anyway so </del>that <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">the second person can see the restrictions </del>of the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">first one.--[[User:Maike Short|Maike Short]] 20:21, 23 February 2009 (UTC)</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">: Apart from that, I think !</del>who <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">should only be send as first command or on change, but not prefix every command. --[[User:Maike Short|Maike Short]] 20:21, 23 February 2009 (UTC)</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::This is not what the current spec says, but why not. In that case, we should also have a "!who/NULL_KEY" which says that from now on the commands do not come from a user. I believe we need at least that the final !release does not belong to a user (who could have been ko'ed). </del>--[[User:Satomi Ahn|Satomi Ahn]] <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">22:</del>10<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, 23 February 2009 (UTC)</del></div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:Oh and, btw, the answer was in the proposal: a new ask dialog can pop up at every new !who that is different from the latest, which is equivalent to have only one user at a time.--[[User:Satomi Ahn|Satomi Ahn]] 22:13</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">23 February </del>2009 (UTC)</div></td><td colspan="2"></td></tr>
</table>Satomi Ahnhttps://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:LSL_Protocol/Restrained_Love_Open_Relay_Group/who&diff=391253&oldid=prevSatomi Ahn: moved discussion2009-06-12T08:16:49Z<p>moved discussion</p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div>: I came to this page to add something similar to this !who meta-command. But I am not opposed to the proposed mechanism, provided it ensures that there is never an ambiguity on who is the current user (but as you present it, it looks ok).<br />
: Now imagine you are using a multi-device relay and you are under restrictions from several users through the same device. How should the relay interpret a !release? Should it clear every restriction from the device? Or only those that where issued by the user in the latest !who? I believe both should be made possible (but in a way that won't make the older relays go wrong... Should, in this case, a pratial release be ignored or be interpreted as a full release?).<br />
:If we can agree on a good spec, I'll try to help you pushing it into the official protocol ^^. Anyway I put this in the TODO list of my multi-relay. :--[[User:Satomi Ahn|Satomi Ahn]] 16:30, 19 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: I am sorry I am not sure whether I understand you correctly: On the one hand you are talking about a multi-device relay and on the other hand you are talking about multiple doms controlling the same device. !release must be implemented on a per device basis. Imagine you are locked up in a cell. Someone griever could simply free you with an attachment that sends !release otherwise, so spoiling all the fun.<br />
:: For multiple persons controlling the same device, I think the last one should override older settings. It gets way to complicated to understand my non-coders otherwise. The world object should check whether it allows access by another person or not. And the relay can ask the user if she trust the new dom or not.<br />
:: We have to keep in mind that !who can be easily faked by untrusted world objects. --[[User:Maike Short|Maike Short]] 18:36, 19 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
:::Ok, I admit what I have in mind is quite complicated. I was thinking of considering a single device as several virtual devices when controlled by several doms (no risk of faking: if the command comes from another real device, of course I don't want it to allow releasing the commands from another one!). But even without going that far, it would make sense, if restrictions come from several doms on a single device, that in certain cases (to be determined by the device maker), only the restrictions coming from one dom would be cleared. --[[User:Satomi Ahn|Satomi Ahn]] 22:05, 19 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
:: We are only !release'ing by object, not by person. We COULD say "release everything this person has" when they !release one... but that's not very .. er.. realistic... if they have you locked in multiple restrictions (a device in a cage for instance), they can only undo you one-at-a-time... and for the !who being faked.. yes it could be, but a) you have to have an object with the !who command (by default) so you would have to be able to fake the UUID of an object that has you actively controlled and the UUID of a person... --[[User:Ilana Debevec|Ilana Debevec]] 23:51, 19 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
Other point of discussion: when a bunch of commands prefixed by a !who have been ok'ed, should the device assume that every following bunch of commands from the same user will also be accepted? --[[User:Satomi Ahn|Satomi Ahn]] 14:35, 23 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: No, it cannot. Some people do not like to be tpto-ed away or stripped and therefore reject those commands. --[[User:Maike Short|Maike Short]] 20:21, 23 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
:: I don't understand your point. How can you know the next bunch of commands from the same user will tpto you or strip you? Is it because the previous bunch had an unpleasant result? Oh.. or maybe you say that some ppl block every srip or tp command? Ok... but that's not the issue I wanted to point to (and this precisely is not really an issue!). The problem would be if you accepted @behav=n commands and then, later, refused the @behav=y.--[[User:Satomi Ahn|Satomi Ahn]] 22:10, 23 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
If no, the device should take care of eventually releasing every restriction in a non-prefixed command (which should work, provided the relay keeps the order of execution for commands issued by a same device).<br />
<br />
If yes, this makes the relay more complicated, as you have to keep in memory the fact that a user still has restrictions on the wearer. Then either you allow only one user per device to lock the relay (as older relays did for devices: only one device using a relay at a time), or you have to do some very complicated bookkeeping for users, similar as what you do for devices in multidevices-relay (which would give an over-kill, over-bloated, multi-device and multi-user relay!).<br />
<br />
Well, what is your opinion on this? --[[User:Satomi Ahn|Satomi Ahn]] 14:35, 23 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: I strongly advocate only to keep track of one user per device. Things get really complicated if different users have their own restrictions. And I thing that is not how the real world works. Sure, there can be two locks on a door with multi device support. But a second persons operating the same lock as the first person with a completely independent set of restrictions is strange. In the rare case this is really desired, the object can use a second prim or do the book keeping itself. Which is a good idea anyway so that the second person can see the restrictions of the first one.--[[User:Maike Short|Maike Short]] 20:21, 23 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
: Apart from that, I think !who should only be send as first command or on change, but not prefix every command. --[[User:Maike Short|Maike Short]] 20:21, 23 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
::This is not what the current spec says, but why not. In that case, we should also have a "!who/NULL_KEY" which says that from now on the commands do not come from a user. I believe we need at least that the final !release does not belong to a user (who could have been ko'ed). --[[User:Satomi Ahn|Satomi Ahn]] 22:10, 23 February 2009 (UTC)<br />
::Oh and, btw, the answer was in the proposal: a new ask dialog can pop up at every new !who that is different from the latest, which is equivalent to have only one user at a time.--[[User:Satomi Ahn|Satomi Ahn]] 22:13, 23 February 2009 (UTC)</div>Satomi Ahn