Talk:Second Life Railroad/SLRR History

If you have a different idea about the information as described here you can use this Talk page to add your comments, idea's and suggestions. Please don't add them in this text

Comments from august 28th 2010 by Jer Straaf:
There are HUGE inaccuracies and MANY omissions in this article.
The VRC (formerly the SLRC) IS ABSOLUTELY NOT the center of all railroading in Second Life and DID NOT start the personal railroading industry as is implied here.
Resident groups have fought bitterly against representatives of the VRC (formerly SLRC) to keep the SLRR from being dismantled or deprecated, once in 2008 and again in 2009.
There is a large personal railroading industry with as many as 20 independent train builders that contribute greatly to Second Life's economy and resident fun.
Many residents view the relationship between the VRC (formerly the SLRC) and Linden Labs as a conflict of interest since the VRC contains several Moles and former LL contractors.
MUCH OF THIS "HISTORY" IS HEAVILY BIASED OR PURE FICTION, WRITTEN FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF A SINGLE RESIDENT.
Jer Straaf

Answer:
This article was initially written by a member of the VRC. Rather then attacking the VRC you could use the talk page associated with this article to make suggestion to the content of the page. Including any information that was not available / was not made available by others like yourself.
--Stryker J 13:47, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

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This is a biased article.

Feeling "attacked" is not an excuse for the uneven treatment given to this subject.
I submitted additional text to you and it was used, however, the article does not seem to currently contain it.
Please present the public with a more balanced treatment of this subject, I have tried to help you.
Jer Straaf

Answer:
This is a new page. If you must you can add any additional information yourself as well.
See Editing_Guidelines for more information on how to do that responsibly.
--Stryker J 14:35, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

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THIS IS A BIASED ARTICLE AND VIOLATES THE WIKI NEUTRALITY PRINCIPLE.

INFORMATION THAT HAS BEEN PROVIDED TO THE AUTHOR REPRESENTS A SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW, THAT INFORMATION HAS BEEN OMITTED FROM THIS ARTICLE.
Jer Straaf

Answer:
I have looked at the source of this conflict and added comments from the main SLRR page 18-jan-2010 and included them into the History page. I guess this solves some of the issue described.
--Stryker J 10:52, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

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ANYONE PRESENTING INFORMATION HERE MUST DO SO IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST, NOT FOR PRIVATE AMBITIONS.
YOU HAVE OMITTED BALANCED INFORMATION THAT I HAVE PROVIDED YOU.
YOU ARE USING THIS ARTICLE TO PROMOTE YOUR PRIVATE GROUP'S AGENDA RATHER THAN PRESENTING AN UNBIASED VIEW OF THE SECOND LIFE RAILROAD WHICH IS OWNED BY LINDEN LABS.
STOP REMOVING MY WARNINGS ABOUT THE LACK OF NEUTRALITY IN THIS ARTICLE.
Jer Straaf

Answer:
This is not Wikipedia, there for the link to that principle is not valid. Rather then constantly repeating that this page is not to your liking you may want to add text that does make this a 'unbiased view' in your opinion. Nothing and no one is stopping you from doing so.
Oh... and by the way... I DID ADD YOUR COMMENTS FROM THE MAIN SLRR PAGE 18-jan-2010 BACK INTO THIS TEXT. BUT YOU APPARENTLY DO NOT READ OR CHECK FOR CHANGES YOURSELF. That was the reason why I removed the warning in the first place.
Stop acting like a little child and start a constructive dialog and / or change the text to your liking your self without implicating the people that started this page.
--Stryker J 06:16, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

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I HAVE EDITED THIS ARTICLE, STRYKER HAS REMOVED THE INFORMATION AND SAID "DO NOT EDIT THIS ARTICLE DIRECTLY."
I POINT OUT THE LACK OF NEUTRALITY, AND NOW STRYKER SAY STOP COMPLAINING AND GO AHEAD AND EDIT THE ARTICLE DIRECTLY.
STRYKER HAS REMOVED MY NEUTRALITY WARNING AND CAN REMOVE ANY OPPOSING POINTS OF VIEW AT HIS OPTION.
MANY RESIDENTS BELIEVE THAT THE AUTHORS HAVE A PRIVATE AGENDA THAT IS IN CONFLICT WITH THE PUBLIC GOOD, THAT IS THE VIEWPOINT BEING CENSORED HERE!
PLEASE SEE: Conflict of Interest
I WON'T PLAY THIS "CAT AND MOUSE GAME" WITH THE TRUTH ANYMORE, A SUB-HEADING CALLED "SLRR CONTROVERSIES" MAY BE ADDED INSTEAD.

AS A RESULT OF MY POSTINGS, STRYKER HAS PUT SOME OF INFORMATION I PROVIDED BACK INTO THIS ARTICLE.
THIS ARTICLE REMAINS BIASED HOWEVER, AND CONTINUES TO VIOLATE THE WIKI NEUTRALITY PRINCIPLE.

Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view

THE AUTHORS HAVE A PRIVATE WEB SITE WHERE THEY CAN CONTROL VIEWPOINTS AND ADVERTISE ANYTHING THEY WISH.
THIS WIKI IS A PUBLIC SL FACILITY, HOWEVER, AND SHOULD BE HELD TO THE SAME STANDARDS AS ANY PUBLIC WIKI PAGE.

ACTING "HURT" OR "SHOOTING THE MESSENGER" DOES NOT ABSOLVE AN AUTHOR'S RESPONSIBILITY TO THE SECOND LIFE COMMUNITY.
Jer Straaf

Answer:
Seems Jer Straaf is not aware that this is Second Life wiki. Not Wikipedia. All he has to do is to add stuff to these pages himself other then:

WARNING! This article violates the Wiki neutrality principle, please see Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view and comments on the Talk page.

– Jer Straaf, 30 aug 2010 03:09, Undo revision 1020023

--Stryker J 16:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

I replied to this at Talk:Second Life Railroad as it seemed to be (more or less) the same discussion. My comment applies to this instance as well.

-- ^{(talk|contribs)} 01:17, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

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Z, YOU SPENT AN HOUR READING AND THEN DECIDE TO COMMENT ON ME INSTEAD OF THE BIASED SLRR ARTICLE?
IF YOU LIKE "BAITING," "HECKLING" AND "AD HOMINEM" ARGUMENTS, PLEASE GO TO SL'S GENERAL DISCUSSION FORUM, YOU WILL FIND WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR THERE.

SHOULD A PRIVATE SL GROUP BE ALLOWED TO IGNORE IMPORTANT FACTS AND RE-WRITE HISTORY TO THEIR OWN LIKING?
SHOULD THE OPPOSING VIEWPOINTS OF SL RESIDENTS BE CENSORED BECAUSE SOMEONE "CLAIMS" THE TOPIC AS THEIR OWN?
SHOULD FREE ADVERTISING AND OTHER SELF-PROMOTION BE INCLUDED IN SL WIKI ARTICLES?
EXCELLENT STANDARDS FOR WRITING WIKI ARTICLES EXIST, WHY SHOULD THEY BE IGNORED HERE?
SHOULD OBVIOUS CONFLICTS OF INTEREST DISQUALIFY CERTAIN AUTHORS FROM CONTROLLING A TOPIC?
THESE ARE A FEW OF THE ISSUES I HAVE RAISED ON BEHALF OF MYSELF AND OTHER CONCERNED RESIDENTS IN THE RAILROADING COMMUNITY.

STRYKER HAS INCLUDED INFORMATION I SUBMITTED AND LATER REMOVED IT, AND BECAUSE OF MY PROTESTS, HAS NOW PUT SOME OF IT BACK INTO THE ARTICLE.
STRYKER REMOVED MY EDITS AND SAID "DO NOT EDIT DIRECTLY" AND NOW SAYS STOP COMPLAINING, JUST EDIT THE ARTICLE, I DO, AND THE TEXT IS REMOVED AGAIN.

WHAT MORE PROOF DOES ANYONE NEED OF THE "CAT AND MOUSE GAME" BEING PLAYED WITH THE INFORMATION PRESENTED IN THIS ARTICLE?

THIS PUBLIC FACILITY IS BEING USED BY A PRIVATE GROUP TO PROMOTE THEMSELVES AND THEIR OWN AGENDA.
MY MESSAGE TO THE PUBLIC IS THAT THERE IS A DIFFERENT VIEWPOINT SHARED BY MANY RESIDENTS THAT YOU MAY NEVER BE ALLOWED TO READ ABOUT IN THIS ARTICLE.
Jer Straaf

Jer, please stop shouting (use of caps-lock for whole posts is considered shouting on talk pages, blogs etc.). It is neither polite or helpful. Also, could you please sign your posts on talk pages by adding 4 "tildes" at the end of your post ("tildes" are these things ---> ~). TY -- Fred Gandt ^{(talk|contribs)} 02:03, 1 September 2010 (UTC)