User:Ama Omega/archive/Office Hours/2010-08-23

List of Attendees

• Ardy Lay
• Click the
• Detected name
• Imaze Rhiano
• Jonathan Yap
• Kaluura Boa
• Kelly Linden
• Liisa Runo
• Melchizedek Blauvelt
• Morgaine Dinova
• Penny Patton
• Rex Cronon
• Sonya Haight
• Username name
• Zep Palen

Transcript

[09:07]	Kelly Linden:	Hello everyone. :)
[09:07]	Melchizedek Blauvelt:	and Kelly
[09:07]	Penny Patton:	"There's a giant box here with an SLURL...what does it mean?" Months later, a pile of skeletons is found sucking up all t he sim's spare prims.
[09:07]	Kelly Linden:	hehe
[09:07]	Rex Cronon:	hi Melchizedek, kelly
[09:08]	Kelly Linden:	So, the topic of the day, at least to start, is LSL calls for display names.
[09:08]	Kelly Linden:	NOT "is display names a good idea". :)
[09:08]	Kelly Linden:	The new LSL functions are on the wiki now, and I have a FAQ up: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Display_Names/LSL
[09:09]	Click the	seat to change your animation or position.
[09:10]	Kelly Linden:	Does anyone have any questions or concerns? Or is there another topic people would rather discuss?
[09:10]	Jonathan Yap:	Is there a date for when they will be up on aditi?
[09:10]	Rex Cronon:	how may words can the user name have?
[09:10]	Kaluura Boa:	Hello... I'm late... What did I miss?
[09:10]	Kelly Linden:	The username can not have spaces, the display name can be as many words as you can fit in 31 characters.
[09:10]	Rex Cronon:	what is the minimum length for user name?
[09:11]	Jonathan Yap:	Is a unicode letter 1 character or more?
[09:11]	Rex Cronon:	and maximum:)
[09:11]	Kelly Linden:	Jonathan Yap that is a good question I'm not sure about.
[09:11]	Penny Patton:	Oh wow. 31 characters long,
[09:12]	Kelly Linden:	The functions are ......
[09:12]	Imaze Rhiano:	so - only llGetDisplayName and llRequestDisplayName are going to return/use display names? everything else is going to use user names?
[09:12]	Kelly Linden:	live on agni. Except that the DisplayNames ones will return an empty string until the serviec is live.
[09:12]	Kelly Linden:	All existing functions will use legacy / full names.
[09:13]	Kelly Linden:	No existing functions will change to usernames. There will be llGetUsername and llRequestUsername for usernames
[09:13]	Imaze Rhiano:	display name doesn't need to be unique?
[09:13]	Kelly Linden:	Correct, it does not.
[09:13]	Zep Palen:	I am a little worried about the 72 hour delay on the displayname script functions
[09:14]	Imaze Rhiano:	any plans to add username to avatar uuid functions? :P
[09:14]	Rex Cronon:	what is the min/max length for user name?
[09:14]	Kelly Linden:	72 is a bit ... extrenious. It should happen much quicker, but there is some cache propegation we are dealing with.
[09:14]	Kelly Linden:	rex: 1:31
[09:14]	Zep Palen:	But Kelly...with any delay it will give impersonaters a gap in where they can have a free play
[09:14]	Imaze Rhiano:	ya... going to fun write scripts for different contest - like photo contest when users change their name during contest :P
[09:15]	Kelly Linden:	For anything where you are tracking a specific user, use the key. If not the key, use the username or full name.
[09:15]	Kelly Linden:	Don't use the display name for tracking people.
[09:15]	Zep Palen:	with instante refelction it can be used to test for impersonators in shops...who would use the shop owners name
[09:15]	Kelly Linden:	Zep: Oh sorry, the 72 hour delay is not LSL specific
[09:16]	Kelly Linden:	That is how long it may take for your display name change to take effect.
[09:16]	Kelly Linden:	(this is in Torley's FAQ)
[09:16]	Zep Palen:	ok..so the change is the same for both LSL and the actual view in the viewers?
[09:16]	Kelly Linden:	yes.
[09:16]	Zep Palen:	ok...thats good...then i am happy ?
[09:17]	Zep Palen:	I have my questions answered...next victim
[09:18]	Kelly Linden:	Imaze: Actually the new names service that is the backend for display names does make it more feasible to create a username to key service.
[09:19]	Kelly Linden:	I think that will wait until display names have been out for a while first though. Let us iron out the feature and see the real world load and performance of the service first.
[09:20]	Kelly Linden:	Well that was far less exciting a topic than I had thought it might be.
[09:21]	Sonya Haight:	we can call a few more if you want more excitement
[09:21]	Rex Cronon:	if u would have aid that lltextbox is here:)
[09:21]	Rex Cronon:	have said*
[09:21]	Zep Palen:	I have a little addon to teh subject
[09:21]	Kelly Linden:	heh, use prim media!
[09:21]	Kelly Linden:	go ahead zep
[09:22]	Zep Palen:	sorry...thats more than 2 minutes ago..so I forgot it
[09:22]	Kelly Linden:	haha
[09:22]	Kaluura Boa:	Seriously, llTextBox() has been sitting on the depthes of the servers for how long, already?
[09:23]	Kaluura Boa:	in*
[09:23]	Kelly Linden:	I have a jira - SVC-5913 about http-request failing until a region restart - anyone here seen that?
[09:23]	Jonathan Yap:	lltextbox is on the list to be processes for the next software sprint
[09:23]	Jonathan Yap:	*processed
[09:23]	Kaluura Boa:	Wow! Revolution! hehehe
[09:23]	Jonathan Yap:	It was just discussed at Oz's OH
[09:23]	Kelly Linden:	prim media is so much more awesome though. :(
[09:23]	Kaluura Boa:	Except that it requires V2... So... No go!
[09:23]	Kelly Linden:	um
[09:24]	Kelly Linden:	What do you think lltextbox is going to require?
[09:24]	Jonathan Yap:	There is a lltextbox patch out -- it just needs converting
[09:24]	Kaluura Boa:	I'd like so much to play with it but I just can't stand V2 so I don't...
[09:24]	Kelly Linden:	any new view features that *we* do are going into viewer 2.
[09:24]	Jonathan Yap:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-392
[09:24]	Penny Patton:	Sounds like changes are coming to the Viewer 2 UI, addressinga lot of the complaints.
[09:25]	Kaluura Boa:	As long as V2 is the way it is, anything V2-only is wasted time
[09:25]	Zep Palen:	llTextBox is a little more resource friendly I think for sits where you just need a user to add a line for something
[09:25]	Imaze Rhiano:	llTextBox is working in Emerald already - and I think in some other tpvs
[09:25]	Jonathan Yap:	It is also working in Cool Rainbow Viewer -- that patch applies directly to 1.22 base code
[09:26]	Kelly Linden:	right - if you just need it in TPVs then you have that. If you are hoping for somehow making it work with the 1.23's already out there that isn't going to happen.
[09:26]	Kelly Linden:	so getting it on our backlog just gets it into viewer 2 / snowstorm
[09:26]	Rex Cronon:	seems like teh code for llstextbox is already available. ll just has to get it:)
[09:26]	Jonathan Yap:	Rex, will you put it into Snowglobe 1.5?
[09:27]	Rex Cronon:	am i a linden?
[09:27]	Kaluura Boa:	Yes, you are... =^_^=
[09:27]	Rex Cronon:	nope
[09:27]	Kelly Linden:	the problem is going to be the same as prim media still - you will have to code multiple methods to use depending on what their viewer supports.
[09:28]
[09:29]	Kaluura Boa:	V2 is a serious bump under the scripters carpet... Where is my hammer?
[09:30]	Kelly Linden:	Are there any scripting issues specific to viewer 2?
[09:30]	Imaze Rhiano:	last time when I tried V2.1 - it's script's editor just crashed or stopped viewer several seconds when copy pasting larger scripts
[09:30]	Kaluura Boa:	The V2-only functions
[09:30]	Jonathan Yap:	Getting the script editor to know about new functions?
[09:30]	Zep Palen:	I remember my forgotten thing from before
[09:30]	Detected name:	Kelly Linden
[09:30]	Username name:	kelly.linden
[09:30]
[09:31]	Kaluura Boa:	Hoooo! Working already?
[09:31]	Zep Palen:	Would you concider changing the words on the FAQ about the display name lsl functiions..they are easy to misunderstand
[09:31]	Ardy Lay:	It's in Server 1.40
[09:31]	Kelly Linden:	Jonathan, ah. yeah that is a good one. We should download the keywords file from the server on login if it has changed.
[09:31]	Kelly Linden:	Zep: Which words?
[09:31]	Zep Palen:	quote; "Note: It may take up to 72 hours for a display name change to take effect, and scripts may report the old display name during this time."
[09:32]	Kelly Linden:	Display names will return an empty string though until the service is enabled.
[09:32]	Zep Palen:	it is easy to read as it goes for scripts only
[09:32]	Kaluura Boa:	72 hours? The hamsters in the wheels are so tired?
[09:32]	Rex Cronon:	u guys change the names manually:)
[09:32]	Kelly Linden:	I think they are just giving themselves wiggle room. but I think we have a 24 hour cache on the names
[09:32]	Kaluura Boa:	Seriously? 72 hours in computer world, that's an eternity
[09:33]	Zep Palen:	as long as they change at the same time for both viewers and scripts then it is fine with me.
[09:33]	Kelly Linden:	Zep: It may take up to 72 hours for a display name change to take effect. During this time scripts may report the old display name and viewers may see the old display name.
[09:34]	Kelly Linden:	how is that?
[09:34]	Zep Palen:	yes
[09:34]	Liisa Runo:	we dont want scripts that "may" work
[09:34]	Kelly Linden:	I think there will be some fuzz around the end of the time when the change actually takes effect, but it should be really close.
[09:34]	Zep Palen:	perfect
[09:34]	Kaluura Boa:	For me, that makes sense... but it's really slow
[09:34]	Rex Cronon:	is kind of weird. 72 in a digital age to change a name?
[09:35]	Kelly Linden:	ok wiki updated
[09:35]	Zep Palen:	thanks
[09:35]	Kelly Linden:	It is really slow.
[09:35]	Kelly Linden:	I'm pretty sure it will be faster in reality.
[09:35]	Zep Palen:	and the delay in itself is actually good...it prevents som sudden impersonators with no patience to work
[09:36]	Kelly Linden:	I believe even sites like facebook can take a long time (in computer time) for a name change to propegate so others see it.
[09:36]	Kaluura Boa:	I think it would be better if you could change fast and then not again until a certain delay
[09:37]	Zep Palen:	there is already planned one change per week only
[09:37]	Kelly Linden:	You sort of get into a race and diminishing returns as you work to make the change faster and faster.
[09:37]	Kelly Linden:	But in the end we have viewers that cache names, simulators that cache names and central servers that serve the names also heavily caching the names
[09:38]	Kaluura Boa:	I'm not into it but I easily imagine some frustrated Role Players... "Let's go and play. Need to change my name. See you tomorrow or the day after... maybe"
[09:38]	Rex Cronon:	why so much caching, when max nr of users online is < 100k?
[09:39]	Kelly Linden:	We show names everywhere.
[09:40]	Kaluura Boa:	What about some dedicated server(s) that could be interrogated in real time?
[09:40]	Kelly Linden:	Reducing the time is something that could probably be done as a second phase or project if there is enough demand.
[09:40]	Jonathan Yap:	Just think of how there are a zillion dns calls being done every day
[09:41]	Kelly Linden:	Kalurra: There will be a dedicated 'names' server. It will sit behind a cache.
[09:42]	Imaze Rhiano	yawns... do we have other topics than these "display names"?
[09:42]	Zep Palen:	dns servers also got delays
[09:42]	Kelly Linden:	Imaze: I actually don't this week. Do you have one?
[09:42]	Rex Cronon:	imaze. make your own topic:)
[09:42]	Kaluura Boa:	What's in the pipelines? What new functions are coming?
[09:42]	Imaze Rhiano:	okay - how is mono rezzing fix coming?
[09:43]	Kelly Linden:	Oh! Good topic.
[09:43]	Penny Patton:	Ooo, Mono rez issue. Also curious about that.
[09:43]	Kelly Linden:	There will have to be 2 phases. We spent a bit of time trying to avoid that but it didn't pan out.
[09:43]	Kelly Linden:	Similar to how we had a mono-aware phase before mono was added, there will be a mono2-aware phase.
[09:44]	Imaze Rhiano:	okay - how are memory limits coming?
[09:44]	Kelly Linden:	We need this because current sims can not handle the new mono2 scripts.
[09:44]	Kelly Linden:	However, we believe we are very close to getting both phases ready for testing. Hopefully this week.
[09:44]	Kelly Linden:	Memory limits is not currently being worked on.
[09:45]	Zep Palen:	has it been dropped?
[09:45]	Kelly Linden:	Not dropped. I suspect it will start getting more resources "soon" - though I'm not sure of an exact time line.
[09:45]	Morgaine Dinova:	Kelly: do you mean that memory limits are not in the scrum backlog, or they're not even in the product backlog?
[09:46]	Morgaine Dinova:	(Oz told us today about the distinction)
[09:46]	Kelly Linden:	They are not on the current sprint for the performance team.
[09:46]	Kelly Linden:	But they are on the performance teams backlog.
[09:46]	Morgaine Dinova:	kk
[09:46]	Penny Patton:	From Philip's keynote, sounded like he was keen to introduce performance boosting limits.
[09:47]	Kelly Linden:	He is, but there are pre-reqs to script limits that we have to do, and they still get weighed against other backlog items even if philip is keen on them.
[09:47]	Kelly Linden:	Believe it or not the mono sim freeze work is one pre-req.
[09:47]	Penny Patton:	Heh. Was just saying it's unlikely they were dropped. Bit of chat lag.
[09:47]	Kelly Linden:	"small scripts" is another soft pre-req.
[09:47]	Kelly Linden:	Ah. yea.
[09:48]	Zep Palen:	you mean dynamic mem assignment?
[09:48]	Kelly Linden:	allowing Mono scripts to set a lower memory ceiling.
[09:49]	Zep Palen:	yes..thats what I meant
[09:49]	Kelly Linden:	Then yes. :)
[09:49]	Zep Palen:	that in itself will also release resources
[09:50]	Imaze Rhiano:	any plans to open development process like snowstorm scrum team did?
[09:51]	Kelly Linden:	Jumping topics: I talked with andrew Friday about link distance rules. He is going to try a new approach to calculating the bounding sphere (which is one very expensive part of the calculations)
[09:51]	Kelly Linden:	Maybe he can make a significant enough change.
[09:51]	Kelly Linden:	Imaze: no.
[09:51]	Kaluura Boa:	Yeah... We talked about strictly distance based limits
[09:51]	Rex Cronon:	now we will be able to link anything inside a 64m radius:)
[09:52]	Kelly Linden:	We are hesitant to do anything that would allow really large link distances until we have better parcel/region border handling and collisions across region borders.
[09:52]	Kaluura Boa:	That should be much faster than the complex formula nobody understands
[09:52]	Kelly Linden:	Rex: ah cool.
[09:53]	Rex Cronon:	i am hopping that will be the min link distance:)
[09:53]	Kelly Linden:	Well, we could get away with 55m I think.
[09:54]	Kaluura Boa:	57m... Weird number
[09:54]	Zep Palen:	hmmmm isnt 55 the max limit ow?
[09:54]	Zep Palen:	now
[09:54]	Kaluura Boa:	57
[09:54]	Kelly Linden:	the current limit is 54m I think, and that is a bounding sphere including the size of the objects being linked
[09:54]	Kaluura Boa:	Or 54...
[09:54]	Rex Cronon:	now we have weird formula that computes the link distance:(
[09:55]	Kaluura Boa:	I have doubts
[09:55]	Kelly Linden:	The code says 54.
[09:55]	Kaluura Boa:	So be it! Make it possible to link anything within a radius of 54m and we'd be happy... for a while
[09:56]	Rex Cronon:	at t least 64m:)
[09:56]	Liisa Runo:	64 is nice round number
[09:56]	Zep Palen:	So is 100...
[09:56]	Kelly Linden:	hehe. I still kind of like the 'w/in 55m of the root prim' idea, but 110m diameter objects makes andrew want to improve our large-object handling
[09:57]	Imaze Rhiano:	ooo... does that means he is finally ready for megaprims?
[09:57]	Kaluura Boa:	LEt's hope!
[09:57]	Kelly Linden:	No, it means once we get to that size he wants to fix the megaprim issues before we do it.
[09:58]	Imaze Rhiano:	"fix the megaprim issue" ? :P
[09:58]	Kaluura Boa:	Encroachment
[09:58]	Kelly Linden:	s
[09:58]	Kelly Linden:	issues
[09:58]	Kelly Linden:	encroachment and apparently also allowing things to colide across region borders
[09:59]	Rex Cronon:	and to think that detecting ecroachment is so easy..
[09:59]	Sonya Haight:	no offsim mountains?
[09:59]	Kaluura Boa:	Some ppl will be very upset...
[09:59]	Jonathan Yap:	I found a bug with off sim rocks
[09:59]	Kelly Linden:	you can always set the object to phantom
[09:59]	Zep Palen:	does that mean I have to remove my 2048x2048 meter offs im landscape? ?
[09:59]	Liisa Runo:	and when the megaprim issues have fixed. LL can easily give us megaprims up to debug_channel. all kind or talk about silly 30m prims makes me think of soaked duct tape
[09:59]	Sonya Haight:	my waves! don't take my waves!
[10:00]	Kelly Linden:	That is a good thing to bring up to andrew, zep.
[10:00]	Zep Palen:	i dont dare that..he'll kick my butt
[10:00]	Kelly Linden:	haha
[10:01]	Kelly Linden:	It would be awesome to have better skybox support
[10:01]	Penny Patton:	Definitely worth bringing up. Anything that can be used to make SL look so much nicer shouldn't get tossed without consideration.
[10:01]	Kaluura Boa:	I'd like the skybody not to be a box...
[10:01]	Penny Patton:	Ooo, better skyboxes would be nice. Would love to see the night sky get a long overdue improvement.
[10:01]	Kaluura Boa:	skybox*
[10:01]	Liisa Runo:	lights that go trough everything would be awesome
[10:01]	Liisa Runo:	dont go trought *
[10:01]	Kelly Linden:	I think PRIM_ROT_LOCAL is code complete for some upcomming (post 1.42) server release too
[10:02]	Kelly Linden:	And with that, I have to run! Thanks all.

Generated with SLog Wikifier