View source for User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2007 11 20

Transcript of [[User:Andrew_Linden|Andrew Linden]]'s office hours:

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [10:59]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hello ^^
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [10:59]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:00]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey Squirrel, are you here to attend my office hours?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:00]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yuss
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:00]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or did you just happen to be nearby?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:00]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ok
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:00]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|After all I do have a physics roller coaster that havok 4 doesn't like
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:01]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Does it use the LSL vehicle stuff?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:01]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Nope
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:01]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So how does it work? And how does it break in Havok4?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:01]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi guys :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:01]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it is a physical object that moves along a prim track using llSetForce
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:01]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi Sidewinder.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:02]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|basically it is a torus with a hole that moves along a track made of cylinders
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:02]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'll be a bit afk for a couple mins... brb
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:02]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and whereever two of the track pieces connect it will collide
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:02]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah s.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:02]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|er... ah yes.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:02]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it works perfect with havok1 though
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:04]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this is the basic principle
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:04]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, I'd expect such a setup to have some troubles in Havok4.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:04]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it moves along the first track piece smoothly
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:05]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but where the second track piece starts it collides.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:05]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|back
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:05]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It also has a tendency to derail in havok 4 where in havok 1 it would just cause the sim to reboot
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:06]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah Squirrel, the effects of the corner normals are a bit stronger in Havok4.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:06]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi everybody
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:06]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I added special magic to vehicles to reduce the effect for driving along roads
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:06]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|however, that special magic does not affect all objects in general.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:06]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Soft Linden should be able to give you an asset ID for a test track which you can rez on the beta grid
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:07]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Also, there is a fragility of such a setup on Havok4 when the physics engine gets lagged -- some objects will tend to get boxified temporarily.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:07]  
| Seph&nbsp;Swain:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hi there.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:07]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|This is the "RCCS" (runtime collision control system)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:07]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So I have noticed
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:07]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/ao off
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:08]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The nice thing about the RCCS is that it really is the only thing standing between you and crippling lag from the physics engine...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:08]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|unless a megaprim decides to interfere ^^
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:08]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|since regardless of how fast the physics engine is you can always just throw more objects at it until it lags.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:09]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The bad thing about the RCCS is that it isn't very smart yet, and will boxify anything that is colliding at all when the lag hits... not necessarily just the offending pile of objects.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:10]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ah. So it needs a bit more work :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:10]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That is, it doesn't yet focus on the objects that are causing most of the lag -- they are affected, but so are all other objects at the same time.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:10]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes. Simon Linden is currently working on that. A first pass anyway to solve some problems causing objects to fall through the terrain.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:11]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The RCCS will new a few iterations
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:11]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|You'll get it right :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:11]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|however, we may try to find people willing to try it out before it is totally done.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:12]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've got one announcement to make, I'll make it again at the end of the hour...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:12]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I won't be holding office hours this Thursday (Thanksgiving in the US)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:12]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|On a decent sim one of my coaster carts will add about 2-3ms of physics processing time on havok 1
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:12]  
| Uildiar&nbsp;Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|omg
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:12]  
| Uildiar&nbsp;Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|its almost thanks giving already
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:12]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|since I'll be on the road, or at least at someone elses house.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:12]  
| Uildiar&nbsp;Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I didnt even notice
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:13]  
| Uildiar&nbsp;Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|#@% yeah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:13]  
| Uildiar&nbsp;Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|turkey
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:13]  
| Uildiar&nbsp;Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nom nom
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:13]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|btw squirrel - at the moment all the simulator hosts on the beta preview are still class 4 hardware
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:13]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The update on Havok4 is...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:13]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not class 5 - so if you're comparing against a class 5 on the main system it'll be different performance-wise
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:14]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There has been no official update to the preview since... I forget, but more than a week ago, becuase we're trying to first fix an annoying bug where objects will fall through the heightfield (terrain).
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:14]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I have tested the coaster on class 3, 4 and 5 sims on havok 1 without problems - except for the sim crashes when havok decides that the cart has derailed
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:15]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There are a number of bugs we're focusing on, in an attempt to get it usable for some subset of estate owners
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:15]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi kitto
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:15]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hello :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:15]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:15]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I know its the cart causing the sim to reboot as the script and physics for the cart are both turned off when the sim comes back online
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:16]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|At the moment I'm working on getting the avatar to sit where you actually click.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:16]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|^^
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:16]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Simon Linden is working on the RCCS
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:16]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What is RCCS here?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:16]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|RCCS = Runtime Collision Control System
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:16]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it is a bit of code in the Havok4 project
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:17]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:17]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that throttles collisions when the lag gets really bad
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:18]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Since it is bypassing collisions, or temporarily simplifying object shapes, or temporarily pinning some objects in place, it has some annoying artifacts
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:18]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We're going to try to make it smarter.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:18]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yikes. 47 pending downloads
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:19]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can u predict what is going to do?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:19]  
| Uildiar&nbsp;Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|..
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:19]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Rex, are you asking if the RCCS behavior is "predictable"?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:19]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:19]  
| Uildiar&nbsp;Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|rezzz
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:20]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Maybe - what the effect of 'throttling' is ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:20]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Do objects start interpenetrating when collision detect fails?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:20]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It is somewhat, but I expect its behavior to change. It has an algorthm where it decides to take action.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:20]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The three things it currently does to recover from lag are:
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:21]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(1) abandon creating new collisions for some objects, temporarily pinning the object in place
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:21]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(2) reducing the collision level of detail (LOD) of some objects... usually this means replacing primitives with boxes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:22]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(3) indefinitely pinning an object in place (slightly different from (1) where the object is typically re-woken up quickly... within a frame)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:23]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|How long is the 'temporary'?? mS or seconds?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:23]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how does it decide which one of those three actions to take?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:23]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The temporary pin (1) is jsut long enough to decide whether or not to boxify the object, I think
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:23]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the indefinite pin (3) is until the physics engine starts to recover
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:24]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I still have no idea of time scale
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:24]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There are ways to make the artifacts from (1) - (3) less objectionable
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:25]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd guess the timescale varies depending on the number of physical objects and collisions taking place that need to be examined
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:25]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a frame is 1/45th of a second at best... but the effect doesn't kick in unless the physics engine gets loaded... so more like 1/20th or 1/10th of a second
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:25]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|indefinitely mean... unknown timescale
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:26]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Does this exist in MG at present?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:26]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No, this is Havok4 only
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:26]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OK
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:26]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Simon added a hook where the RCCS could be disabled at runtime
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:26]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|however it is not connected to any user interface yet
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:27]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I suspect I have not seen this recenly as the H4 sims are very lightly loaded
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:27]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We'll probably eventually make it available as a admin option
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:27]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so if its disabled, physics can and may slow down to a crawl if there's too many collisions ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:27]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|people were seeing some of this at the start of testing - when folks were dropping hundreds of physical toi around
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:27]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*tori
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:27]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes Sidewinder
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:28]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/oops you said recently - my bad :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:28]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But at that time I could not test trains - too many other bugs
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:28]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, if it is disabled then the possibility is open for the physics engine to do what we call a "deep think" where it blocks
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:28]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|for anywhere from a significant fraction of a second to several seconds
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:28]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|however, Havok4 won't block as bad as Havok1
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:28]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mayhaps you could still add in a safety timeout for deep think phases?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:29]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, that is possible. The RCCS currently has a few parameters
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:29]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and those could be made open for tweaking via UI
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:29]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The only part of this RCCS description that worries me is long-term pinning in place. If LSL can run well enough the train would (mis)detect blockage and take recovery action.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:29]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also, I was thinking we could add some other params so that it preferentially kicks in for smaller objects first
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:29]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|squirrel - this is an area that will possibly get some more work after the first release... we're talking about whether any of that needs to be in the first release... remember that one thing we are trying to do is to get h4 out as soon as possible to reduce th overall sim crash rate
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:30]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so some of these things might be done after an initial version... in other words
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:30]  
| Uildiar&nbsp;Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nothing uses havok 5 yet
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:30]  
| Uildiar&nbsp;Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|x3
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:30]  
| Uildiar&nbsp;Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|needs more havok 5
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:30]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well... the RCCS pins the objects in place, but if you were to query the object with llGetStatus(STATUS_PHYSICS) you would get "TRUE" as an answer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:31]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|even though the physics engine has temporarily pinned the object
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:31]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|under the hood
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:31]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hmm... I know that just two physical, intersecting sculpties can take a sim down pretty much instantaneously
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:31]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sculpties actually collide a torii
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:31]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and torri are concave and cause big problems for Havok1
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:31]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Exactly. Cant tell it from someone edit-stopping the object, or hit some non-physical object.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:31]  
| Uildiar&nbsp;Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bringing back the joint system would be Niiice! to
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:32]  
| Uildiar&nbsp;Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|havok1 did it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:32]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Joints... there is a great feature that we had to nerf
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:32]  
| Uildiar&nbsp;Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but havok4 can ahndle it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:32]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We will someday bring back joints
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:32]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|however joints will require significant cleanup of a bunch of code
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:33]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it is one of the BIG projects
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:33]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and a Doctor's prescription?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:33]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I guess you can't have too many joints without the physics engine having to do major processing on them
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:33]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sometimes in the far future, in a far, far away galaxy:)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:33]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as such, it is not on the short list (months)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:33]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|decades...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:33]  
| Uildiar&nbsp;Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|x3
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:33]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a year I'd guess
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:34]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll quote you on that one year from now if I don't forget :p
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:34]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a year is quite long in a digital world
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:34]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Er... the timescale for that project is years, but not tens of years.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:34]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Let me put it that way.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:35]  
| Uildiar&nbsp;Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|joints would be hawt for sculptie rag dolls
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:35]  
| Uildiar&nbsp;Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sling them around
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:36]  
| Uildiar&nbsp;Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|like in garrysmod x3
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:36]  
| Uildiar&nbsp;Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|WEEEEEE
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:36]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If my guess about when RCCS kicks in is correct, then what the pinning might do to the train is no big problem, may be good, because it goes non-phys, so lightens the load a little. And if the FPS or TD has dropped too, then the train will sleep for 15 secs anyway.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:36]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There is another project somewhat related to joints...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:36]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heirarchical objects
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:37]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I suspect heirachical objects might be better tha njoints
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:37]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would prefer to do heirarchical objects first, since that would make joints easier
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:37]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That is, joints would be a special case of heirarchy
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:37]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'd say you guys do whatever needs to be done in the best order to do it :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:38]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't think we'll have an update for the Havok4 preview this week anyway...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:38]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what with Thanksgiving at the end
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:38]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so hopefully next week.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:39]  
| Uildiar&nbsp;Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|everything in a linkset has a hiearchy number already
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:39]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Whats due for improvement in Beta next?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:39]  
| Uildiar&nbsp;Kuhn:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but meh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:40]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|seems i have network problems
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:40]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The current blockers for an update are: avatars not sitting right, objects sometimes fall through the heightfield, some broken content maybe caused by expanded collision tolerances,...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:40]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and one wierd bug that Dan Linden noticed but we don't yet have a repro for
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:40]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Describe bug?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:41]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh... and some bug to do with attachment modifications failing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:41]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The weird bug was... some dynamic objects would get "pinned" in location, but could spin
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:42]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|That bug is NOT related to RCCS, since the RCCS either totally pins linear and angular motion, or just changes the collision shape.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:42]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Linear engine fails whist angular works?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:42]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No, the two engines are one.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:42]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|'drive' ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:43]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Most likely there are some "rogue actions"... such as the "grab action" when you click on a dynamic object to move it with the mouse.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:43]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The 'grab action' allows the object to spin, but is kinda like an llMoveTo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:43]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|unfortunately, I haven't been able to look at it yet
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:44]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The other bug I'm currently working on is somewhat interesting...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:44]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hmm... trying to run a second directx application while SL is active will make SL render anything and everything fullbright and 100% glow
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:45]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The fireworks launcher in the library doesn't work... the rocket collides with its launcher and explodes immediately
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:45]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/second... actually sl is an opengl app.. ? (squirrel)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:45]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't think this is caused by the RCCS, but I have yet to test that to be sure.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:45]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/sounds like a video card driver interaction/bug - which video card are you using squirrel?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:46]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The interesting thing about it is... if the collision tolerance betwee various shapes changes subtly
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:46]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then various content will break
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:46]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|nvidia 7950gt
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:47]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so ideally whenever the physics engine changes significantly
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:47]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then we'
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:47]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|like everything that explodes on collision?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:47]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then we'll probably have to make sure to reduce the collision tolerance at the same time... to reduce such broken content
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:47]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no... most stuff should be fine
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:47]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|however, some small subset of content is probably affected by this bug
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:48]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that is, the content was carefully adjusted so that it just barely works
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:49]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I tested a lot of guns that use various colliding bullets and didnt notice any large oddities
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:49]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and when the physics engin changes then some things stop working just because they don't have any slop to spare
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:49]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But that is large scale collision
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:49]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah. I have no idea how much stuff other than the library's Fireworks launcher is affected
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:51]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hrm... no rezzy. Pending downloads for this region is now 44
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:51]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The train uses collision on the order of 10cm scale, but it is being affected by the llSetPos() issue, so is a bit messed up. However its not showing anything odd otherside
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:51]  
| colspan="2"|''Andrew&nbsp;Linden decline 'Rocket Launcher'  ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Brampton/107/152/26 ) from Firework Launcher (drag to ground).''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:51]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|otherwise
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:51]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hrm... that is interesting...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:52]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this rocket also blows up immediately
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:52]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|This rings a bell from long ago
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:52]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|YEs
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:52]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|like 3 years ago
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:52]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I remeber seeing that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:52]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|pardon me while I do some regression testing here... ;-)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:53]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|excellent. It is broken in Havok1
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:53]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:53]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which means I don't have to fix it in Havok4
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:53]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I kinda remember there was a bug in it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:53]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks kitto :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:54]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|^^
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:54]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I verified that it almost works in Havok4.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:54]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|If you remove the little disks on the launcher's pole it works fine in Havok4
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:54]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so the collisions are between the rocket and those little decorative disks.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:54]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heh
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:55]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe the fix is to fix the rocket launcher design? ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:55]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:55]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No longer have any mod version of the library one in Inv. Dissappeared in the Great Loss
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:56]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yeah. I think the library content is copyable... so maybe someone made a copy and that is sitting in their inventory somehere.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:56]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh well, no huge problem. The library stuff is modifiable too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:56]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I remeber picking it apart.. and maybe fixing something
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:56]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The Kart 1.0 needs some work too.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:57]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I mentioned earlier today, but I wanted to reiterate near the end of the hour -- I won't be holding office hours this Thursday
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:57]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I tried Kart - seemed ok.. with the usual fix
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:57]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|since I'll be out of town and off the grid
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:57]  
| Seph&nbsp;Swain:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Kart1.0 is borken in Havoc1, too. It doesn't drive on high places.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:57]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh... one more thing...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:57]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|er... offline
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:58]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I found a post in the scripting forum today that points to a script that apparently seems to circumvent autoreturn
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:58]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=224630
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:58]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Kart has a line in the script to kill forward motion if its more than 2(?) M abouve ground
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:58]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hence it will not cross bridges as-is
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:59]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/kitto - that's a kart bug right?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:59]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Probably put in to stop it motoring up into the sky
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:59]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what does it do squirel
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:59]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:59]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bug/feature
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:59]  
| Seph&nbsp;Swain:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is there news about how to get Havoc4 as early as possbiel ? We had about 10 sim crashes last Thursday during a 4hour event..
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:59]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|unlink - relink
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [11:59]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which seems to reset the timer for autoreturn
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [11:59]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sadly i can't access the forums suirrel
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:00]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hmm.. let me get the wiki link then
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:00]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Seph, the timeline for some early trials of Havok4 is mid Dec or so, but before the end of the year.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:00]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Jana_Kamachi/NoReturn
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:00]  
| Seph&nbsp;Swain:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thanks Andrew.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:00]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Seph, those four crashes... were they on a private estate?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:01]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|One update - I did retry that lean peculiarity in aonthe H1 sim. and checked that both H1 sims are running H1 by rolling a ball
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:01]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(Yes Squirrel, that script will defeat autoreturn)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:01]  
| Seph&nbsp;Swain:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Andrew: Yes. Magrathea. We have car racing there.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:01]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Conclusion - Beta H1 sims are not same as MG. OR the viewer is different
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:01]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh... unfortunately vehicles are still rather buggy in Havok4
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:02]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|kitto, u need the scripts for the rocket booster, and rocket launcher?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:02]  
| Squirrel&nbsp;Wood:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Then this script is obviously taking advantage of a bug
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:02]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and we'll probably try to do some early trials in regions that are NOT relying on vehicles
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:02]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Actully the majority of my vehicles work quite well
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:02]  
| Seph&nbsp;Swain:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Andrew: ic :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:02]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh really? Hrm...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:02]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|YEah
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:02]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I was surprised how well
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:02]  
| Seph&nbsp;Swain:
| style="white-space:normal;"|My test on beta Grid were all 100% ok, too, but it's hard to test without a known environment and no load on the sims.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:02]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Rocket - not really in my bailywick
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:03]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, there are a lot of vehicle bugs open. I'm kinda ignoring those for now while we knock some other stuff down.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:03]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Some old vage vehicle bugs were probably due to things that got fixed
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:03]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well Seph, if that is the case we could consider trialing your estate with Havok4.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:03]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The sim border crossing wrong change message...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:04]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We'll be testing various regions on the preview first anyway, at least in the beginning.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:04]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|llSetPos() probably accounts for a lot more
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:04]  
| Seph&nbsp;Swain:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Andrew: It can't get worse than now...we sometimes have double crahes, ie. two crahes in an interval of two or three minutes.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:04]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So if you were willing to try it I don't see why it would be out of the question.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:05]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ok Seph good to know. BTW, are you the actual estate owner? Or just a frequent visitor?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:05]  
| Seph&nbsp;Swain:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Andrew: Estate Manager and I'm paying the bill, but my avatar is not listed as owner.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:05]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I don't know how the very early Havok4 trials will be selected, but the initial list will be very small (dozen or less).
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:06]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|An that will last for a week or so.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:06]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Seph, send Sidewinder email if you want to be considered as a candidate for the early trial.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:06]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think he's going to do most of the coordination on that.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:06]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Septh - the primary things we're looking for are
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:07]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|standalone regions (without crossings to H1 sims
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:07]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no need for vehicles to be working (since we won't have that all sorted out)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:07]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and a reasonably substantial crash rate, or
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:07]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this table is about to be autoreturned
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:07]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|complex builds that will test the linkage code
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:07]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|at least for the very first round
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:08]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Primarily we're interested in finding some estates where we can reduce the crash rates.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:08]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Seph says his region crashes a lot
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:08]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right - without taking large risks on people's existing content
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:08]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|however, they are using vehicles quite a bit
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:08]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|k
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:08]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Are MG crash rates actually linked to traffic numbers?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:08]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if their vehicles work well enough in Havok4 then I would consider it a candidate... since the crash rate is high and the estate owner is willing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:09]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|seph - what is the name of the region?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:09]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|of course, we would roll back to Havok1 if Havok4 just did not work.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:09]  
| Seph&nbsp;Swain:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sidewinder: Magrathea
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:09]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|kitto - they can be
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:09]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok thanks seph
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:09]  
| custer&nbsp;Einarmige:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Mind if I sit in on this? I own about half a mainland sim and we make a lot of scripted vehicles
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:09]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh.. er are you talking about early trials of H4 on MG?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:09]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There is undoubtedly a correlation between crash rates and traffice numbers
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:10]  
| Seph&nbsp;Swain:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sidewinder: You want an email with a summary ?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:10]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but that isn't the only thing, of course
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:10]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sure - that will be handy - sidewinder 'at' lindenlab.com
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:10]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah kitto... the early trials of H4 on SL proper will be to see if it can reduce crash rates
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:10]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OK
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:11]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|As I mentioned last week... we've fixed all the crash modes that we know about in Havok4
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:11]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Wish only has high thrash rates. Rarely crashes these days
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:11]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|however the crash-free codebase has not yet been deployed
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:12]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(except to Bisque and Chartreuse)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:12]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, thanks for coming. I've got to run now.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:12]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye andrew
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:12]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Have a good Turkey Day all!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:12]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Have a good Turkey Day all!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:13]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|u too kitto
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:13]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|k see you guys... hopefully we will be able to do a beta preview refresh next week
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:13]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye sidewinder
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [12:13]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this will depend on some bug fixes and a successful qa pass
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [12:13]  
| Seph&nbsp;Swain:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Bye all, thanks for the fresh info.
|}