View source for User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2008 02 14

Transcript of [[User:Andrew_Linden|Andrew Linden]]'s office hours:

{|
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:04]  
| Simon&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I bumped it up the MOTOR limit to 256m/s
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:05]  
| Areth&nbsp;Gall:
| style="white-space:normal;"|o.O
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:05]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is that active in thsi sim?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:05]  
| Simon&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I can never keep track of what's pushed vs. in QA :) ... let me look when I made the change...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:05]  
| Zwagoth&nbsp;Klaar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a sim per second should be sufficient no?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:05]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is that in the deployed build, simon?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:06]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|79818 is the release
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:06]  
| Areth&nbsp;Gall:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Being able to travel that fast would cause effects that would ultimately be bottlenecked by sim-borders. I've traveled faster than that and it literally looks like you're stuck against a window for a few seconds.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:06]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi andrew
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:06]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's going to be most useful for stuff that doesn't get anywhere near the limit
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:06]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|woah, 256 m/sec huh?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:06]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi Andrew
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:06]  
| colspan="2"|''Andrew&nbsp;Linden wonders what will happen''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:06]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you use a large linear motor timescale, you only reach a fraction of the target velocity
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:07]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i saw a ferry last night - cruise ship that's 3 sims long - it pauses at the region borders to resync before keeping on going...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:07]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so for a locomotive, i'd use a timescale of 200s or so, then a very big motor direction to compensate =P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:07]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hey have you seen how avatars float when standing and walking in Havok 4 about 0,078 Meters off the ground https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1520
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:07]  
| Gypsy&nbsp;Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if we can get over 256m/sec maybe that will lead to traveling backwards in time?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:07]  
| Simon&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No, the change was done on Tuesday, so it's not out yet
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:07]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hello everybody
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:07]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok so that would be in the next deploy
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:08]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what about the floating avatar issue?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:08]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|very large motors would be clamped to 40 on set, so setting it very large would not quite compensate
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:08]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|however, under the new change... that vehicle may get frisky
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:08]  
| Areth&nbsp;Gall:
| style="white-space:normal;"|agreed.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:08]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've noticed that also Sofia
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:09]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What is the floating avatar issue?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:09]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1520
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:09]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:09]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you float about 0.078 meters off the gorund in havok 4
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:09]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this is feet not quite on terrain
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:09]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|like the bugs about not standing right on prim surfaces
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:09]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|AV's float off the ground or object
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:09]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:09]  
| Drugdealer&nbsp;Tripsa:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hey all :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:09]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:09]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|from what i've heard the one for prim surfaces has been fixed though.. yours is on terrain, right?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:10]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that in the pics was on prim floor but at the time of the pics it was the same issue on the normal terrian
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:10]  
| AlexanderThe&nbsp;Benelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'm stil floating and this is a prim surface
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:10]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The avatar shape was optimized in Havok1 to get the feet close to the actual surface, even though it actually hovers above it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:11]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The avatar may still need tweaks in havok4... however Havok4 has some slight differences
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:11]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|will that be an easy fix?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:11]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|supposely implicit spheres don't have the "collision tolerance" boundary as most of the other shapes do
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:12]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and the tuning of the avatar shape is to hide that collision tolerance. So we'll get the wrong thing happening on large implicit spheres... maybe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:13]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It would be nice to make the client make any small adjustments necessary to get the feet in the right place, if the adjustments are small.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:13]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|is this related to sit targets appearing a bit different too?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:13]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|But... the real answer is... we don't consider the floating avatar a very high priority. it could be fixed after deploying H4 to everywhere
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:14]  
| Gypsy&nbsp;Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|its sounds like it might be, sittargets is what I came by to discuss today
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:14]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|before we open the table up, I've got a few announcements...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:14]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes I figured it wasn't priority but it looks kind of silly and I hope its fixed at some point not far off
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:14]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Some of these I'll try to reiterate at the end of the meeting in case anyone else shows up.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:14]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|how high is the priority for collision detection, between objects and avatars?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:15]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|First of all... I'm going on vacation next week, and won't be able to attend these office hours.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:15]  
| colspan="2"|''Wolfhaven&nbsp;Teleportation HUD v2.0 Ready''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:15]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|However, Simon is going to show up and make any announcements and answer questions.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:15]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And of course, Sidewinder can usually make the Thursday hour.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:16]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|actually this tuesday i can be here, although that is usually a tricky time for me
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:16]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Second thing... there is a bug where vendors may rez collections of objects in the wrong spot
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:16]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that bug is fixed in the tip of our codebase, but won't be out until next update
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:17]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which will hopefully be early to mid next week... we'll push it as fast as we can, since this is important
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:17]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh yeah... another thing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:17]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|we're getting close to "good enough" that some of us are itchy to declare Havok4 as "done"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:18]  
| Gypsy&nbsp;Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:18]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which means, we'll be trying to sort the bugs into to categories... those that prevent us from deploying it everywhere
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:18]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and those that we're willing to ship and fix later
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:19]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Of course, we'll be trying to listen to feedback to help us make those decisions
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:19]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so to those of you interested in influencing the final blocker bug list I would say
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:19]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|collision(integer total_number) doesn't work right
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:19]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hold please rex...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:20]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:20]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that you may want to continue your vigilence and participation in the public jira bugs, comments and other discussions
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:20]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the blog is a channel,
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:20]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|as are these office hours
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:20]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one thing that i'd like us all to keep in mind is that "shipping" is not necessarily the end of fixing things...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:21]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right now we have many regions that have a pretty high crash rate
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:21]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and they are itching to have havok4, in order to rduce their crash rates
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:21]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so part of this is to figure out "how good do we need to be" in order to safely deploy to the whole second life grid, and then finish lower priority issues
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:21]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, there is pressure from some mainland parcel owners
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:22]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|also some pressure internally. There are a few projects that are waiting for Havok4 to get merged into the codebase
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:22]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if mass deployment does not not create HAVOK in itself
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:22]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Visual Studio 2005, for example
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:22]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hehe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:22]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yup renee... we're trying to avoid that ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:22]  
| Gypsy&nbsp;Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|VS?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:22]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if I may reiterate a question from last Tuesdays meeting,"is there work being done on a protocol t=for client server swap of inventory as far a backup system goes"?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:22]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one thing I can say is 2 of my islands were suffering with time dilation issues and after switching thme to havok 4 it fixed the issues
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:22]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|backup is a whole separate project, unrelated to the havok4 update project
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:23]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|No work being done right now that I'm aware of Renee
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:23]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:23]  
| Gypsy&nbsp;Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a 3rd party did a inventory backup thing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:23]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|interesting sofia - we are lokoing at performance optimization... some folks have seen your results, and others the other direction... that's good to hear
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:24]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Speaking of performance problems. Simon might want to talk about some work he's been doing to address some Havok4 problems there.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:24]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|which regions in particular were those, sofia?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:24]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you should of seen Odessa Grand and Odessa Enchanting before the change its been a big improvement
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:24]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:24]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cool...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:24]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|simon?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:24]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Those regions were probably suffering from mini-deepthinks
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:24]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|jumping dolphins maybe?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:25]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes I think so
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:25]  
| Simon&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Well, I spent today doing profiling and performance tuning, and while I still need to do some more tests, I hope we can get H4 frame rates to be better than H1
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:26]  
| Simon&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We've seen too many cases where the frame rates drop with a large number of avatars, but I did make improvements today
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:26]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|will H4 support more AV's
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:26]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|We were doing detailed handling for too many collision callbacks, right Simon?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:27]  
| Simon&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, and our internal data structures were unnecessarliy complicated, so it's been cleaned up
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:27]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I've seen that too in Sanctuary Rock time dilation would drop alot to where you had problems with moving with alot of avatars in it and its on havok 4
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:27]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Since that code falls into some per-avatar stuff, we should see an improvement for large crowds. I think that was Simon's test case... a little crowd.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:27]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'd like to comment on this a bit...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:27]  
| Simon&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I was using 40 avatars
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:27]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there are a couple of things about "capacity" o think about
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:28]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one is that currently (with havok1) people often use "where does the region crash" as a measure of how many avatars is "safe"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:28]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|havok4 has many fewer crash modes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:28]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so going forward the real answer will be more gated by real performance
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:28]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|"lag"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:28]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so the good news is that so far, crashing does not define the boundary of how many avatars you can put on a region
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:28]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:29]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the performance work that is going on is to improve the simulator part of "lag"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:29]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(and everyone here is probably clear that lag also comes from highly loaded graphics cards in busy 3d scenes)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:29]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:29]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so if simon is successful in raising frame rates, it is *possible* that the amount of lag for a certina number of avatars might go up
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:30]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but it's too early to say for sure
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:30]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i haven't noticed a difference in frame rates when in wireframe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:30]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|at the same time... at sanctuary rock and other places i've heard many people say that h4 "feels" smoother and faster under high load than h1
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:30]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so i'd think that some of this has to do with how it reacts to high load and the perceived performance, along with the numbers
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:31]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what about addition graphics i.e. particle displays
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:31]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|along with AV count
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:31]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|one thing - and this is a personal hunch... i wonder if we are grabbing stats in a slightly different way that might make direct comparisons not quite "apples to apples" but we haven't had time to look at that too much
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:31]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|particles would also be included in graphics, since that's a client-side operation
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:31]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|particle systems are rendered on the viewer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:31]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so most of the limiting factor there is the graphics hardware... in most cases
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:32]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|even running dual 512 cards I experience this
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:32]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|unless there is a lot of scripting behind it :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:32]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is this work going to reduce the Simulator CPU load, due to physics processing?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:32]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|There are many forms and causes of "lag". I figure most of the people here could tell network lag from render lag.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:32]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Or simulator lag.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:32]  
| colspan="2"|''Kitto&nbsp;Flora can''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:32]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lag among the masses
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:33]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i.e a group on a SIM experiencing it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:33]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|there is some interesting work going on internally, to look at lag sources
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:33]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i'm in the boston area with the windlight team, and they have some intriguing things that haven't seen the light of day yet, but might help to illustrate where the lag sources are for some scenes if the ideas work
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:33]  
| colspan="2"|''Arawn&nbsp;Spitteler visited Isle of View earlier, and had to leave''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:33]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I haven't checked recently, but is it relatively safe to make a phantom+physical object nonphantom while it's intersecting with another object, in recent builds?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:33]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, Kitto. This is CPU usage optimization. However I don't really think Simon has found the source of the 2X cost of some complex vehicles
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:34]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ty
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:34]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would like to see something like that Sidewinder
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:34]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|at the moment, we're mostly focusing on the high avatar count type of scenario, but that doesn't mean we've forgotten trains, kitto :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:34]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Creem, no unsetting the phantom bit will still cause the object to get pushed out.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:34]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Goody :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:35]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the floating avatar issue won't be forgotten either?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:35]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, pushed out is ok - my concern is simulator time dilation going to 0 or crashing the sim =)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:35]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Oh, no the crashing shouldn't happen.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:35]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Time dilation may go down, depends on how bad the content is.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:35]  
| Zwagoth&nbsp;Klaar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is air resistance something that is calculated in H4, I noticed that objects dont spin forever when they have buoyancy and a rotation is applied to them.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:36]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but it shouldn't fall to totally unusable levels
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:36]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|BTW, that reminds me...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:36]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would like to throw in that H4 and Second Life 1.18.5 (3) seem to run great togetrher so far
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:36]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|creem - remind me about td 0 after andrew's done ok?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:36]  
| AlexanderThe&nbsp;Benelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Is their actually a resource which enables us to look up values and principles of H4?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:36]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sure
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:36]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I recently added code that disables collisions on a pairwise basis when the avatar gets embedded deep inside another object. Not in the current deploy, but should be in the next.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:37]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Perhaps some of you could think to play with it when it goes out and let me know what needs to be tweaked.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:37]  
| Areth&nbsp;Gall:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Pairwise basis? As in the avatar and the vehicle will not collide?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:37]  
| Gypsy&nbsp;Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ohh, that sounds like you might have fixed my problem already?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:37]  
| Areth&nbsp;Gall:
| style="white-space:normal;"|erm, avatar and object* sorry.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:37]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|The idea was to prevent the avatar from getting pinned between object penetration and the heightfield, or another object
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:37]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|/alexander - the project wiki is here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Havok_4_Beta_Home
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:37]  
| Zwagoth&nbsp;Klaar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|pairwise, it disables collision between the avatar and the object only, not between anything else
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:37]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|so, if i am in a object nothing can touch me?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:38]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So... if a griefer put a megaprim over your avatar... you should become collisionless with that one object, but not other objects that you aren't penetrating. That's what I meant by "pairwise basis"
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:38]  
| Jcool410&nbsp;Wildcat:
| style="white-space:normal;"|could that pairwise thing be implemented in a way that it could be utilized by scripts between scripted objects?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:38]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|just that avatar and that object cease to collide
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:38]  
| Gypsy&nbsp;Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|this repo I setup of the bug I found today is going to be auto-returned soon, can I show it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:38]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|until the avatar exits
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:39]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hmm andrew - would that mean that any prim over you would be a shield, as long as it touches you?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:39]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|in terms of weapons / combat style?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:39]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Whats te implication of 'not collide'? Does that me an that from the Av's pov, the prim becomes phantom? You can walk through/out of it?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:39]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes, I suppose it could be used as a new type of shield.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:39]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I think that would usually be the case already, sidewinder
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:39]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ooo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:40]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you sit insid\e a giant hollow sphere, bullets would hit it instead of you =)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:40]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thats a neat idea Andrew
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:40]  
| Areth&nbsp;Gall:
| style="white-space:normal;"|My question is how deep do you have to be? And does it apply on a by prim basis or by a by object basis?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:40]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|not, really. things can still be rezzed all around/over u
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:40]  
| Zwagoth&nbsp;Klaar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I can see abuse of this already. But anything is going to be abused if its there.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:40]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|heh - makes me wonder why shields are so much more complex in general ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:40]  
| AlexanderThe&nbsp;Benelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|@Sidewinder; I know the wiki page, but i cant find a page telling me -just a really simple example- things like the value of gravity (not that there would be a real need for finding "that" value, but i couldnt find a better example just right now)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:40]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah, so this feature that disables collisions between an avatar and a specific object or objects... it doesn't work well for concave objects
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:41]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that is, objects that use the MeshShape
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:41]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ahh Alexander - let's talk offline about what you need... it may not be written yet - but i'd be happy to work with you to figure out what should be there
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:41]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|since you collide with the inside surface of MeshShapes
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:41]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Gypsy, what is this bugged object you're talking about?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:41]  
| Zwagoth&nbsp;Klaar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I always wanted llCollision filter to apply to the actual physics and not just the event.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:41]  
| Gypsy&nbsp;Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the ladder leanin against the e-spaces sign behind you
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:43]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|What is wrong with the ladder?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:43]  
| AlexanderThe&nbsp;Benelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|@Sidewinder:"talk offline"=email?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:43]  
| AlexanderThe&nbsp;Benelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|use it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:43]  
| AlexanderThe&nbsp;Benelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*g*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:43]  
| Gypsy&nbsp;Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol froze up for a se and nded up way over there
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:43]  
| AlexanderThe&nbsp;Benelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|And you will see you wont get down
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:43]  
| Gypsy&nbsp;Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when I climb down and it unsits me it pushes me forward into the wall and that prushes me back up on top
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:43]  
| Gypsy&nbsp;Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|watch
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:44]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Thats the new unsit action effect?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:44]  
| Gypsy&nbsp;Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that just started with this last build I believe
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:44]  
| Jcool410&nbsp;Wildcat:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sure that isnt a movelock?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:44]  
| colspan="2"|''AlexanderThe&nbsp;Benelli shouts: its just putting me up there again''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:44]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh I see, this is the "object dismount" code that broke it.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:44]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Good, I've been wanting an object like that to troubleshoot
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:44]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|freebie
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:44]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:45]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|OK, 'object dismount'. Its a neet idea, but is doomed to fail in some situations
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:45]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|It messes up in the front seat of the Monorail
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:45]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Leavs the av trapped in the buffer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:45]  
| Gypsy&nbsp;Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I posted that here hehe, in a way this bug is cool, it gives me an excuse to personaly demo the ladders to some lindens ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:46]  
| Gypsy&nbsp;Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ooppss, LMAO I cant believe that was still in my clipboard ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:46]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Yes Kitto, but if I could make it give preference to the "offset position dismount trick" then it wouldn't break as much content
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:46]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|(A clever ladder!)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:46]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and it could be made a bit smarter. That was the first pass.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:46]  
| Gypsy&nbsp;Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1546
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:46]  
| colspan="2"|''Gypsy&nbsp;Paz gave you Ladder Wood 8m lowprim.''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:46]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|*wink* Gypsy... like "reply all" eh? :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:46]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:46]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Andrew, honestly I'd be happy with ;llPushObject() just working gain like in H!.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:46]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|H1
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:47]  
| Gypsy&nbsp;Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:47]  
| Kitto&nbsp;Flora:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Then we can tune the push to the application
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:47]  
| Zwagoth&nbsp;Klaar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ryozu mentioned to me that the car over there tilts to one side and stays on two wheels only if two people are sitting in it, and it tends to flip over like that.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:47]  
| Gypsy&nbsp;Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, I could fix the ladders if things change, but theres allot of them out there
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:48]  
| Zwagoth&nbsp;Klaar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|seems to work fine with only one person though
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:49]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Ok, I grabbed a copy of the car. I'll try to play with it tomorrow.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:49]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what about elevators? i ended up having to take mine out of my office building because after the converation they would go up a little and fall back to the ground
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:49]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|they used physics to go up
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:50]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hmm have you tried the latest deploy sofia?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:50]  
| AlexanderThe&nbsp;Benelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|rofl....that must be a crazy experience, especially in mouselook *g*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:50]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|the problem with the elevators is that they no longer move up?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:50]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|no I need to
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:50]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you'd like i can put one of your regions on the beta preview so that you can check each build
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:50]  
| Zwagoth&nbsp;Klaar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I also noticed that spheres have a type of "magnetic" or "sticky" effect when they colide with other objects, causing them to rolling around the objects surface as if it was stuck to the outside of it. I dont think its serious issue, but it might be looked at.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:50]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes i haven't tested since the last update i'll have to do that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:50]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but before i removed them they would go up a little and falll back down
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:50]  
| Zwagoth&nbsp;Klaar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|its most apperent on avatars
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:51]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Odessa Elegent would like to go Beta is that Trav's Sofia
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:51]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yes I already put in for it to be converted
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:51]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|btw renee and sofia - i'm talking ab out putting it on the beta preview grid - as opposed to conveting it on the main second life system
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:51]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it's a "separate world" for testing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:52]  
| Zwagoth&nbsp;Klaar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I will also pass on that Ryozu said that if you have anything that behaves oddly, stick it in that parcel over there and maybe andrew or whoever can stop by and look at them periodicly.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:52]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|ok np
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:52]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|okay I haven't done the beta testing just the early adopter
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:52]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that would be good there are tons of scripts running on Elegent
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:53]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|very good variety of them
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:53]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|diverse island it is
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:54]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Alright, since the office hour is nearly over, I want to repeat: I won't be able to attend the normal hours next week, but Simon Linden will be holding hours at the same time and place.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:54]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|if you could put Odessa Elegant on beta gird it would be good for performance testing
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:54]  
| Simon&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Hey folks, I have to run ... cleaning crew just hit the office and I'm getting gassed with chemicals, so I guess that's time to go home :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:54]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|bye simon
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:54]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I would like to thank you all for your continue efforts to improve our experiences here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:55]  
| Simon&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I'll be here next week, hopefully with others and we'll keep it going
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:55]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i would like to encourage us all to start thinking about which bugs "really have to be fixed" to be safe for a rollout, and which could be safely fixed afterwards.. :)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:55]  
| AlexanderThe&nbsp;Benelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Cu, ty for beeing here
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:55]  
| Simon&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|THanks all!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:55]  
| Gypsy&nbsp;Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|yeah I cant wait for h4 to go mainstream ;)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:55]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks alexander
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:55]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks everyone... see you next time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:55]  
| AlexanderThe&nbsp;Benelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Sidewinder, if u have a min *g*
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:55]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|thanks for your time
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:55]  
| AlexanderThe&nbsp;Benelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|=>IM
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:55]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|sure
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:55]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|and you asked me to remind you about td 0
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:56]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|oh creem... the 0 fps thing...
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:56]  
| Zwagoth&nbsp;Klaar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|So andrew, is there air resistance in havok 4?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:56]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|someone handed me a supposed sim killer
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:56]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it did manage todrive fps very low
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:56]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|but it didn't crash the region
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:56]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|a friend of mine made somethig like that
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:56]  
| Areth&nbsp;Gall:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Goodluck you guys.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:56]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|with a hundred or so toruses
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:56]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|what is considere very low?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:57]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i let it cook for 15 minutes really struggling, and still no crash... so the good news is that usually, even when heavily loaded, you or we will be able to get in and remove the problem content without a rollback
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:57]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|like 9fps?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:57]  
| Zwagoth&nbsp;Klaar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I need to ask somebody for something hold on
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:57]  
| Zwagoth&nbsp;Klaar:
| style="white-space:normal;"|crashes havok 4
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:57]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|enclosed in a very tight space, like a bomb... setting them physical is a way to reboot the sim =P
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:57]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|cool
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:57]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's part of why we're trying to see when we can roll this, because reducing the need for rollbacks also reduces content loss
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:57]  
| Andrew&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|Such a grief mode won't block Havok4 from being deployed, but it will probably get relatively quick attention after.
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:57]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|can you replicate that creem?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:57]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|right
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:57]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|@andrew
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:57]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well, I have some content which could take advantage of a phantom+phys object suddenly going nonphys, but i've avoided it because it often made FPS very low
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:58]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|I can try
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:58]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well if you want to *use* the region you may not want to do that, but i'd be interested to see if it really crashes the simulator
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:58]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|umm right now?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:58]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|maybe a bad idea to have it here =)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:58]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|that's one way to kill th emeting creem... :!
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:58]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when is the next betagrid test going to be done?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:58]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lo
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:58]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:59]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|anwyay, just doubling the toruses until you hvae 300 or so
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:59]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|hi sofia - the beta preview grid is kept up to date with the latest build
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:59]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|then suddenly making them all phys at once
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:59]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|i can add a copy of your region to it, so that it is there with new versions
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:59]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|you can then try things there without affecting your main system region
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:59]  
| Creem&nbsp;Pye:
| style="white-space:normal;"|well the beta grid should work =)
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:59]  
| Sidewinder&nbsp;Linden:
| style="white-space:normal;"|it copies the whole build, with permissions
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:59]  
| Rex&nbsp;Cronon:
| style="white-space:normal;"|before u crash it, can u do a countdown from 3?
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [17:59]  
| AlexanderThe&nbsp;Benelli:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol...lets go to the neighboor sim
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [17:59]  
| Renee&nbsp;Faulds:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol, Rex
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [18:00]  
| colspan="2"|''Gypsy&nbsp;Paz flees before the crash the sim''
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#FFFFFF;"
| [18:00]  
| Sofia&nbsp;Westwick:
| style="white-space:normal;"|when theres a new version will there be a ntoice asi would like to add one of my troubled regions to it
|- style="vertical-align:top;background-color:#F0F0F0;"
| [18:00]  
| Gypsy&nbsp;Paz:
| style="white-space:normal;"|lol thanks guys, l8
|}