User:Andrew Linden/Office Hours/2008 03 04

Transcript of Andrew Linden's office hours:

[11:04]	Anders Falworth:	Hi, Andrew.
[11:04]	Aybabtu Aabye:	greetings
[11:04]	Andrew Linden:	Hello everyone.
[11:04]	Aybabtu Aabye:	I'm sorry i was unable to come test with you last week, Andrew. I am unable to get into the beta for some reason
[11:04]	Kitto Flora:	Hi Andrew, Simon
[11:05]	Aybabtu Aabye:	Also I am unable to log into jira.
[11:05]	Simon Linden:	Hi Everyone
[11:05]	Anders Falworth:	Hi, Simon.
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	Aybabtu, how old is your account?
[11:05]	Aybabtu Aabye:	june of last year
[11:05]	Andrew Linden:	Hrm... should be present on the Preview then
[11:05]	Aybabtu Aabye:	i was able to get in for 5 minutes at 5am on friday morning, but not since then, ive tried for hours on end
[11:05]	Rex Cronon:	hi everybody. just crashed:(
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	Well we had a little vehicle session last thursday
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	and the indication was that things still needed work
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	so I busted my butt on vehicles since then
[11:06]	Andrew Linden:	I ended up redoing half of the vehicle Havok4 magic
[11:07]	Kitto Flora:	Uh-oh
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	with not much to show really, except simpler code, and probably better overall behavior over most vehicle types
[11:07]	Aybabtu Aabye:	would it be possible to turn this extra microphysics thing you mentioned off for ground collisions? maybe at the sim or object level?
[11:07]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Okay, time to retest everything.
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	No Aybabtu, I was looking into the friction API of Havok4 recently
[11:07]	Aybabtu Aabye:	sounds like interesting stuff
[11:07]	Andrew Linden:	there really isn't much that I can do there
[11:08]	Kitto Flora:	Any reduction of CPU load?
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	anyway, I'm going to have another vehicle session today, right after this hour, on PSU CS199 on the preview
[11:08]	Andrew Linden:	I need more feedback on the recent changes
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	preliminary resulsts show that maybe motorcycles need work
[11:09]	Aybabtu Aabye:	anyway we could do a test on the live grid sometime, maybe some quiet out of the way place thats an early adopter?
[11:09]	Arawn Spitteler wonders if Fast Hobo Train still flies
[11:09]	Andrew Linden:	so if anyone here want's to test their vehicles that they know well, then please come with me to PSU CS199 at the end of this hour
[11:09]	Kitto Flora:	OK
[11:09]	Squirrel Wood:	: knows her physics driven roller coaster still fails miserably
[11:09]	Arawn Spitteler:	WE'd have to IM, since that sim was closed, last I was there.
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	Kitto, I did some work on the "vehicles collide with prim seams" stuff since the version you've been playing with
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	you might be able to test on PSU CS199
[11:10]	Andrew Linden:	ok, quick update...
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	Not a whole lot of stuff fixed recently. I've been killing myself on vehicles and kelly and simon have been working mostly on some Havok4 crash modes
[11:11]	Squirrel Wood:	What about hollowed prims being treated as if they were not hollow? (There is a Jira out there on that somewhere)
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	but we've got a new update coming
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	and since the last update took a while to get out, there are a few old bugs fixed that will be in the new update
[11:11]	Andrew Linden:	I don't have a good list
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	and the next update isn't in QA yet... hopefully by the end of today
[11:12]	Andrew Linden:	I think it is waiting for some changes that Simon made, and my vehicle changes if they prove to be any good (or as good)
[11:12]	Simon Linden:	Aybabtu - I checked and it looks like you have a valid account for the beta grid. Try some older passwords if you have trouble logging in
[11:12]	Aybabtu Aabye:	no
[11:13]	Aybabtu Aabye:	i mean i got in for 2 minutes using my current password on friday morning
[11:13]	Andrew Linden:	I think the next release is going ot have a 'Release Candidate' title
[11:13]	Aybabtu Aabye:	same password as always, as far back as i can remember i havent changed my password, maybe theres something on my account i can check on that
[11:13]	Mathieu Basiat:	oh boy
[11:13]	Kitto Flora:	(crash 1)
[11:14]	Arawn Spitteler:	CG was just talking about H4 in 1.19.1 in the next few weeks
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	that is mostly an indicator that we think we're close
[11:14]	Andrew Linden:	There are a few known bugs that we hope to actually fix before release of Havok4
[11:14]	Aybabtu Aabye:	is it possible to have an object be frictionless, still have the drag from micro collisions but otherwise frictionless?
[11:15]	Darek Deluca:	sure hope so
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	but nevertheless the next update will have an RC label
[11:15]	Andrew Linden:	Aybabtu, that is an interesting question. I was just considering that earlier today
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	Currently there are no materials that have zero friction
[11:16]	Ilobmirt Tenk waves
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	however, it might be possible to add some material settings with zero friction
[11:16]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	but not in Havok4... perhaps post Havok4
[11:16]	Tillie Ariantho:	ao off
[11:16]	Rex Cronon:	make a ne material. something like ice?
[11:16]	Kitto Flora:	Oiled?
[11:16]	Mathieu Basiat:	teflon
[11:16]	Andrew Linden:	I think zero friction would solve your problem Aybabtu
[11:17]	Arawn Spitteler doesn't know why Light was deprecated as a material.
[11:17]	Andrew Linden:	incidentally, that is how I changed vehicles this time around... all vehicles now have zero friction... as long as they are moving, or trying to move
[11:17]	Aybabtu Aabye:	id still have the micro physics thing, but id have to counter act less, the counter is never perfect the smaller the force im trying to counter the less noticeable the error
[11:17]	Squirrel Wood:	on H1 you can use a trick to get "zero" friction... sort of
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	so Aybabtu, there might be a workaround for special objects...give them a dummy vehicle whose main purpose is to provide the object with zero friction
[11:18]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Arawn: General prejudice against holograms. :(
[11:18]	Aybabtu Aabye:	ok that sounds promising
[11:18]	Andrew Linden:	squirrel, how do you get zero friction in H1?
[11:19]	Aybabtu Aabye:	simon, can i IM you now or some other time regarding my login issues, so i dont clutter this chat session?
[11:19]	Squirrel Wood:	from what I gathered it has something to do with fullbright textures.. oddly enough
[11:20]	Aybabtu Aabye:	andrew, I had some questions on zero-g environments in SL, i saw some jira posts
[11:20]	Shaun Altman:	hiya
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	yes that sounds very odd squrrel. I'm not sure I believe it.
[11:20]	Squirrel Wood:	I'll have to check my logs if I can dig it out
[11:20]	Mathieu Basiat:	Have there been any tweaks to ApplyImpulse in this new version, as I am having issues with that
[11:20]	Aybabtu Aabye:	is it possible to change the strength and the direction of gravity within a sim in SL
[11:20]	Gaius Goodliffe:	A zero friction object would be good to dig out. Logs are likely to only reveal people talking about it. :p
[11:20]	Andrew Linden:	sure, the table is now open. I don't have any more announcements.
[11:20]	Enrico Genosse:	me too.
[11:21]	Ilobmirt Tenk:	hmm...
[11:21]	Ilobmirt Tenk:	does Havok 4 have fluid dynamics?
[11:21]	Andrew Linden:	Mathieu, what kinds of changes to llApplyImpulse() are you asking about?
[11:21]	Aybabtu Aabye:	i can fake some of the zero-g effects with an attachment, but it would be nice if we didnt need one
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	Aybabtu, currently it is not possible to change the gravity in a region. However, theoretically it is possible in the physics engine.
[11:22]	Andrew Linden:	variable gravity would be a feature changes. We've considered it. People have asked for it. Maybe we'll do it someday.
[11:22]	Mathieu Basiat:	well, basically Apply impulse works when trying to raise a vehicle, but it wont bring it down at all, in fact, with it hovering still, it tends to push it forward...
[11:22]	Rex Cronon:	so, u can have an upside-down sim?
[11:22]	Arawn Spitteler imagines: H4.Tweak Jira
[11:22]	Aybabtu Aabye:	the main things are getting the default animations to work at different angles, liek when youre upside down walking on the roof
[11:22]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Andrew: What would be really nice is if you could vary gravity with altitude (say, weightless above 768m).
[11:23]	Ilobmirt Tenk:	going on with the zero-g thing. that would be pretty neat for a sim owner function
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	Mathieu, there may be some subtle differences in how an llApplyImpulse() would fight with a vehicle Action
[11:23]	Andrew Linden:	the interaction between those two features is kinda undefined
[11:24]	Aybabtu Aabye:	actually what i have in mind are 3 things, one a complete 0G area, a planetoid in the middle of a sim where gravity always points to the center of the planet and a rotating space station where gravity always points out like a centrifuge
[11:24]	Squirrel Wood:	*digdig* [12:57] Lyndyn Tzara: Ooh, and a note, you want to use material of glass or Fullbright Legacy [12:57] Lyndyn Tzara: that has lower friction [12:58] Al Sonic: I've been wondering about the physics of different materials. [12:58] Jetta Bentham is Online [12:58] Lyndyn Tzara: The mass is all the same [12:58] Hervy Rikichi is Online [12:59] Al Sonic: Interesting. [12:59] Lyndyn Tzara: Fullbright Legacy being infamous for having no friction and absorbing no energy on collisions *digdig*
[11:24]	Mathieu Basiat:	am looking for the line in the code, it is pretty straighforward
[11:24]	Andrew Linden:	however I would expect something like the problem you're talking about - if the vehicle wants to hover then it may well defeat external llApplyImpulse()'s
[11:24]	Shaun Altman:	You may be able to fake the space station
[11:25]	Mathieu Basiat:	if(held & (CONTROL_DOWN)) { llApplyImpulse(llGetMass()*<0,0,-5>,FALSE); angular_motor.y += 1; }
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	Squirrel, I'm sceptical of that claim about fullbright with zero friction, but it is not entirely impossible.
[11:26]	Kitto Flora:	Maybe you need a material like Segggylin - has negative 'gravity mass'.
[11:26]	FlipperPA Peregrine:	Hey gang :)
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	I think fullbright (or light) is a "material" like wood or plastic
[11:26]	Ilobmirt Tenk:	Hey!
[11:26]	Darek Deluca:	May be the GetMass giving you problems, i put a Jira in on problems with getmass in child prims
[11:26]	Squirrel Wood:	I have noticed a difference in the behavior of physical objects that use that "trick"
[11:26]	Rex Cronon:	hi
[11:26]	Squirrel Wood:	especially when followinf a prim rail that is anything but straight
[11:26]	Andrew Linden:	and if there weren't actual friction/restitution settings associated with that material then maybe things would default to something unexpected
[11:27]	Arawn Spitteler will have to try this, with a spiral stair.
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	I'll keep an eye out for that problem "misbug".
[11:27]	Ilobmirt Tenk:	like negative friction?
[11:27]	Squirrel Wood:	on havok 1 this is
[11:27]	Mathieu Basiat:	but the odd thing is this works the same as on the main grid
[11:27]	Andrew Linden:	uh... negative friction would create an instability. We'd hear about that pretty quick
[11:27]	Mathieu Basiat:	if(held & (CONTROL_UP)) { llApplyImpulse(llGetMass()*<0,0,1>,FALSE); angular_motor.y -= 3; }
[11:27]	Ilobmirt Tenk:	hehe, yea. That be bad
[11:28]	Squirrel Wood:	not sure about the friction part but the no energy loss on collision part works like a charm
[11:28]	Andrew Linden:	Darek, I think Kelly Linden was working on the bad mass of child prims problem. I think maybe he fixed it.
[11:28]	Mathieu Basiat:	ok...
[11:28]	Simon Linden:	Yes, that mass problem was fixed yesterday
[11:28]	Enrico Genosse:	fixed the bad mass child prim thing in upcoming release?
[11:28]	Darek Deluca:	and the attributes of child prims also, hollow, twist, etc
[11:28]	Enrico Genosse:	yay!
[11:28]	Mathieu Basiat:	that may solve my waves problem also, i hope
[11:29]	Ilobmirt Tenk:	woot!
[11:29]	Aybabtu Aabye:	in a linked object, where does the force from motors, force or impulse push on? the center of mass, geometric center, of the object, of the root prim?
[11:29]	Andrew Linden:	hrm... energy loss on collision is related to the "restitution" setting of the object. Basically refers to the proportion of impact energy is released on bounce.
[11:30]	Andrew Linden:	Aybabtu, pushes on an object (llPushObject() for example) apply to its center of mass.
[11:30]	JayR Cela:	i think is the root prim / so in other words when linking object make your center of force somewheres in the middle
[11:30]	Ilobmirt Tenk:	brb
[11:30]	Aybabtu Aabye:	ok just to be clear, all pushes, the motors, impulse, force, pushobject, all act on the mass center
[11:31]	Andrew Linden:	JayR, no script forces always apply to the center of mass. The only exception I know of is the VEHICLE_MOTOR_OFFSET feature.
[11:31]	JayR Cela:	yeah so when you link your prims make the root prim somewheres in the center
[11:31]	Aybabtu Aabye:	doesnt sound like that matters JayR
[11:31]	JayR Cela:	ok so I am wrong
[11:32]	Aybabtu Aabye:	:) or i could be
[11:32]	Rex Cronon:	setforce applies to the center of of the object in the linked set that uses the script?
[11:32]	JayR Cela:	i have allways had best luck with the root prim being located in the cwenter of all vehicles
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	llSetForce() also applies its force to the center of mass of the object.
[11:33]	Gaius Goodliffe:	I put the root prim at the point I want things to rotate around. IF that's the center, fine, but it need not be.
[11:33]	Arawn Spitteler recalls it as Center of Mass: When we want to aplly an off center force, on a non-vehicle, we could llApplyRotImpulse(), but that's a different 5th of a second. llSetPhysicalParams([]) might be useful
[11:33]	JayR Cela:	Andrew that is why I allways make the root prim in the center / just incase of certain anomalies
[11:33]	Kitto Flora:	If any linear force was *not* applied at the center of mass, it would also impart a spin to the object (if the physics modeling is RRL true)
[11:33]	Andrew Linden:	JayR Cela, I don't think the vehicle's root prim needs to be centered, however it does need to be aligned such that it's +X axis points in the FORWARD direction
[11:34]	Aybabtu Aabye:	i tried a work around for the vehicles front tires getting grabbed with friction, by applying a torque to counter act it, i think ive got the math down, but as soon as it catches air, there's no more ground friction the vehicle does loops
[11:34]	JayR Cela:	i disagree
[11:34]	Andrew Linden:	either that, or you need to use the VEHICLE_TRANSFORM feature ,or whatever it is called...
[11:34]	JayR Cela:	old habbits die hard / LOL / I just covering my ass
[11:35]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Ayb: If you have "landing gear", put collision sensors there, and modify your behavior when you're not getting collisions.
[11:35]	Tillie Ariantho:	JayR: maybe reattach your hair to cover your head fully, too. ^^
[11:35]	JayR Cela:	lol
[11:36]	Aybabtu Aabye:	good idea Gaius, i tried that already
[11:36]	Gaius Goodliffe:	You might also want to try detecting the angle of attack -- stop apply torque if your nose goes too high/low.
[11:36]	Andrew Linden:	Aybabtu, when you say "vehicles" you're not actually refering to the vehicle API in LSL but your own moving objects that use llApplyImpulse() or other forces, right?
[11:37]	Aybabtu Aabye:	theres always a delay between when the car catches air and it detects that its in the air
[11:37]	Mathieu Basiat:	has anyone else had issues with VEHICLE_ANGULAR_MOTOR_DIRECTION being off say 15% too strong?
[11:37]	Ilobmirt Tenk:	no idea
[11:37]	Aybabtu Aabye:	the force and torque needed to counteract is so great, an instant off the ground and its zooming off
[11:37]	Andrew Linden:	Mathieu, perhaps you should join me in the vehicle session to see if that is still true.
[11:38]	Gaius Goodliffe:	ah :(
[11:38]	Mathieu Basiat:	oh I didn't know there was a vehicle session, lol
[11:38]	Aybabtu Aabye:	yes andrew, vehicles that dont use the library calls
[11:38]	Andrew Linden:	Aybabtu, as I mentioned, a workaround for your problem may now be to use a dummy vehicle in your manually pushed object. In the code that I'm working on now, I mean.
[11:39]	Mathieu Basiat:	When is this vehicle session, i have been on vaca for a few months
[11:39]	Aybabtu Aabye:	is that something i could test with or is that still in the works
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	sorry Mathieu, I had mentioned it at the very begining of this meeting.
[11:40]	Mathieu Basiat:	ahh, i was a little late
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	I'm going to update PSU CS199 on the Preview with the latest bleeding edge snapshot of the code, that has some recent changes to vehicles
[11:40]	Andrew Linden:	in particular... all vehicles now have zero friction while they are moving, or trying to move
[11:41]	Andrew Linden:	and I removed some other magic that was trying to re-apply the linear and angular motors in certain cases
[11:41]	Mathieu Basiat:	yes i think i caught that part...
[11:41]	Aybabtu Aabye:	are there any sims on the main grid with the latest and greatest snapshot?
[11:41]	Darek Deluca:	frictionless when moving under their own power?
[11:41]	Mathieu Basiat:	but is there a time for the session?
[11:42]	Arawn Spitteler imagines vehicles now moving in ways they didn't: Couldn't we just have directional surface friction?
[11:42]	Andrew Linden:	so, anyone who is interested should come join me for the hour after this, to test their vehicles, and let me know about any bugs they find
[11:42]	Mathieu Basiat:	yes, great
[11:42]	Kitto Flora will
[11:42]	Squirrel Wood:	custom friction type parameter?
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	Arawn, inhomogeneous friction is not a feature of the Havok engine, however vehicles do have their own sort of non-uniform friction
[11:43]	Arawn Spitteler:	Dummy Vehicle, is that one with a script that only runs llSetVehicleType()?
[11:43]	Andrew Linden:	that is the VEHICLE_LINEAR_FRICTION parameter
[11:44]	Squirrel Wood:	as in prim property setting...
[11:44]	Andrew Linden:	there is also a VEHICLE_ANGULAR_FRICTION param, both of them are vectors and represent the timescales to apply friction in the various component directions
[11:44]	Andrew Linden:	no, those are not prim settings but parameters to the LSL vehicle
[11:44]	Squirrel Wood:	or does material do the trick there?
[11:45]	Andrew Linden:	changing the material of the object will adjust its friction
[11:45]	Kitto Flora:	Andrew, does VEHICLE_ANGULAR_FRICTION completly override all other friction sources?
[11:45]	Andrew Linden:	however... going forward (if I actually check this in) then all vehicles will ignore their material friction settings... while moving or trying to move
[11:45]	Aybabtu Aabye:	not sure i understood the dummy vehicle thing, my apologies, are you saying, make it a library vehicle but turn all the motors, attractors, frictions to their lowest settings and then apply my inputs
[11:45]	Andrew Linden:	hrm... I just realized there is a bug there....
[11:45]	Andrew Linden makes a note
[11:46]	Aybabtu Aabye:	so that i could take advantage of the frictionless vehicle movement thing?
[11:46]	Darek Deluca:	even when pushed by an outside force /impact?
[11:46]	JayR Cela:	I dont think push works the same in Havok 4 as it did in Havok 1
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	Darek, if that outside force/impact actually makes the vehicle move then yes, the friction should get set to zero.
[11:47]	Arawn Spitteler:	So, Parking Brakes would set to non-vehicle?
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	right Aybabtu, that was the "workaround" I was suggesting. However, it will only work once I actually check in these changes
[11:47]	Andrew Linden:	(the changes that I want to test in the vehicle session)
[11:48]	Aybabtu Aabye:	i like it, its a move forward for me
[11:48]	Darek Deluca:	if it is frictionless, any outside collision would impart it's energy to the vehicle
[11:48]	Squirrel Wood:	Hello SIdewinder
[11:48]	Aybabtu Aabye:	if i drop a vehicle on you here, can you take it with you to the test?
[11:49]	Andrew Linden:	Darek, when the vehicle moves slow then I have the higher friction kick in. The outside force would have to get the vehicle above some small threshold velocity for the friction to be set to zero
[11:49]	Sidewinder Linden:	hi squirrel.. and everyone... i had a family commitment - sorry i coudln't make it to the start of the hour
[11:49]	Andrew Linden:	I forget what the threshold is... I think 2 m/sec or so
[11:49]	Rex Cronon:	hi sidewinder
[11:49]	Enrico Genosse nods to Sidewinder
[11:49]	Andrew Linden:	Aybabtu, yes it is possible for me to take a vehicle to test.
[11:49]	Darek Deluca:	oh well, i was hoping to fake a frictionless hinge
[11:50]	Sidewinder Linden:	/hi enrico
[11:50]	Aybabtu Aabye gave you Street Boogle.
[11:50]	JayR Cela:	hmmmmm / main Sl website is choking
[11:50]	Tillie Ariantho:	Can someone get a cushion for JetZep? ^^
[11:50]	Andrew Linden:	Darek, I'd recomment not messing with hinges for a while. Someday we'll add hinges again.
[11:50]	JetZep Zabelin:	hi =)
[11:51]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Andrew: Just to clarify - any physical object moving over the threshold speed loses friction, or just vehicles (ala llSetVehicleType).
[11:51]	Andrew Linden:	just vehicles Gaius
[11:51]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Thanks.
[11:51]	Andrew Linden:	assuming that I actually check this change in
[11:52]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Right.
[11:52]	Sidewinder Linden:	would it make sense to put both versions up for comparison? (sorry if this has already been discussed)
[11:52]	Arawn Spitteler:	All Vehicles have to be Physical already, don't they?
[11:52]	Aybabtu Aabye:	for ground collisions, theres still some amount of microphysics drag though? i may be using the wrong term there
[11:52]	Sidewinder Linden:	although... actually we have the current version on th emain second life system for comparison - nvm ...
[11:52]	Andrew Linden:	Yes Arawn. If the object is not dynamic then any LSL vehicle stuff will not work.
[11:53]	Andrew Linden:	setting the object's friction to zero doesn't actually make it frictionless... the true friction used is actually the average between the two objects involved
[11:53]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Well, not exactly. I've used llSetVehicleType on non-physical things before. IIRC, you have to do it to be able to use some mouselook stuff. But yeah, no dynamics stuff works while it's non-physical.
[11:53]	Arawn Spitteler:	Do Physical non-Vehicles have any Linear_Friction? I'm using mere physicals because vehicles are too demanding of consideration
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	and the ground and other objects in the physics engine do not have zero friction
[11:54]	Mathieu Basiat:	since the website is choking ATM, the havok4 latest version is 1.18.3.70780 ????
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	but that is as low as friction will go for an individual object
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	neg friction is not allowed
[11:54]	Aybabtu Aabye:	ah i see, is there a way to set a sims gorund friction level?
[11:54]	Andrew Linden:	no, the ground's friction setting is not changable at the moment
[11:55]	Aybabtu Aabye:	well, its half way there, ill take what i can get :)
[11:55]	Andrew Linden:	go ahead and chat... I'm going to bounce PSU CS199 on the preview...
[11:55]	Simon Linden:	Mathieu - latest Havok4 version in the wild is 1.19.0.80517
[11:56]	Mathieu Basiat:	kk, web site just ate it bigtime
[11:56]	Squirrel Wood:	/ao off
[11:56]	Mathieu Basiat:	back up
[11:56]	Andrew Linden:	I'm calling this one 1.19.0.81406... close enough
[11:56]	Aybabtu Aabye:	andrew, i noticed you test on the main grid sometimes, for comparison to the h4, do you have a schedule for that?
[11:56]	Flight Band:	All Go
[11:56]	Arawn Spitteler hasn't yet logged in to http://blog.secondlife.com
[11:57]	Mathieu Basiat:	1.19 isn't on the beta download page...am i missing something?
[11:57]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Havok4 is server-side.
[11:58]	Mathieu Basiat:	yes i know, i was talking the lastest beta client download
[11:58]	Sidewinder Linden:	/aybabu - we have an early adopter program, which is basically a large scale beta program, for region owners on the second life grid
[11:58]	Tillie Ariantho:	the latest beta went gold. .)
[11:59]	Gaius Goodliffe:	You can use any ADITI client.
[11:59]	Sidewinder Linden:	one thing that maybe all do not know is that you can use the release viewers to connect to the beta grid
[11:59]	Mathieu Basiat:	are we logging to the beta grid to test, or here?
[11:59]	Sidewinder Linden:	with the addition of a command line parameter
[11:59]	Sidewinder Linden:	how many here are on windows?
[11:59]	Squirrel Wood:	Me
[11:59]	Enrico Genosse:	me
[11:59]	Mathieu Basiat:	not me
[11:59]	Ilobmirt Tenk:	I did use the beta. apparently teleports are borked
[11:59]	Andrew Linden:	hrm... PSU isn't coming up
[11:59]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Can be. :) Depends on my mood.
[11:59]	Sidewinder Linden:	ok well for windows, you can create a second shortcut
[11:59]	Ilobmirt Tenk:	I couldn't connect to any sandboxes
[12:00]	Aybabtu Aabye:	right, les has one of those i think, what im looking for is when are you testing on the main grid, h1, to see how vehicles behave there, in order to compare them to h4
[12:00]	Sidewinder Linden:	add " --aditi" (two hyphens) to the end of the command line, and then on the next login you'll connect to the beta preview
[12:00]	Sidewinder Linden:	for the mac
[12:00]	Aybabtu Aabye:	or would you rather do that in pieces
[12:00]	Aybabtu Aabye:	*peace
[12:00]	Andrew Linden:	oh, I had set it to the wrong version number
[12:00]	Sidewinder Linden:	you'll have to open the application package, and inside resources folder
[12:00]	Sidewinder Linden:	there is a file called.. umm just a sec
[12:00]	Sidewinder Linden:	arguments.txt
[12:01]	Sidewinder Linden:	add --aditi to the top of that file and on next restart you'll connect to the beta preview
[12:01]	Sidewinder Linden:	just remember ot have two configs or undo this before trying to get onto the main second life system ;)
[12:01]	Tillie Ariantho:	Have to leave. :) Nye
[12:01]	Sidewinder Linden:	bye tilllie
[12:01]	Mathieu Basiat:	like this?
[12:01]	Tillie Ariantho:	ao on
[12:01]	Mathieu Basiat:	--aditi -settings settings_releasecandidate.xml -channel "Second Life Release Candidate"
[12:01]	Ilobmirt Tenk:	Am I the only one who cannot get onto a sandbox throught teleporation?
[12:01]	Rex Cronon:	bye tillie
[12:02]	Ilobmirt Tenk:	at least in the beta?
[12:02]	Tillie Ariantho:	Looking forward to see that Havok 4 live. :)
[12:02]	Sidewinder Linden:	i usually put it att he end on a mac
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	ok PSU CS199 is up on the preview.
[12:02]	Mathieu Basiat:	-settings settings_releasecandidate.xml -channel "Second Life Release Candidate" --aditi
[12:02]	Sidewinder Linden:	right mathieu
[12:02]	Ilobmirt Tenk:	I had some code to test in the beta, but I'm stuck in ryder haven
[12:02]	Andrew Linden:	I think it is still open for everybody from last week.
[12:02]	Sidewinder Linden:	you'll get a red bar across the top, but otherwise it looks regular - so one other way to tell
[12:02]	Mathieu Basiat:	ok
[12:03]	Gaius Goodliffe:	Hmm... my arguments.txt is empty -- do I need all that other stuff, or will just "--aditi" do?
[12:03]	Sidewinder Linden:	which grid you connected to is that the map on the beta preview is umm "very sparse"
[12:03]	Mathieu Basiat:	i'll head there now
[12:03]	Sidewinder Linden:	only about 60 regions max
[12:03]	Sidewinder Linden:	so we're all going to psu cs199?
[12:03]	Aybabtu Aabye:	:( almost all
[12:03]	Sidewinder Linden:	or as many as are interested that is?
[12:03]	Mathieu Basiat:	me me me
[12:03]	Enrico Genosse nods.
[12:03]	Squirrel Wood:	I'll be there
[12:03]	Ilobmirt Tenk:	I know
[12:03]	Kitto Flora:	CPU on ADITI - not found