User:Babbage Linden/Office Hours/2008 10 08

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Transcript of Babbage Linden's office hours:

[8:13] Fake Fitzgerald: hi Babbage

[8:13] Babbage Linden: hello

[8:13] Goldenstar Bright: hello

[8:14] Malburns Writer: Hi Babbage, Hi all - thought would pop in

[8:14] Babbage Linden: hi

[8:14] Fake Fitzgerald: hi

[8:14] Babbage Linden: not much news on mono this week

[8:14] Babbage Linden: we've been doing security fixes

[8:14] Babbage Linden: the outstanding issues in jira are herre

[8:14] Babbage Linden: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-1276

[8:14] Babbage Linden: but at least some of them have been fixed

[8:15] Babbage Linden: SVC-3099 for example

[8:15] Babbage Linden: and I think SVC-3036 has been fixed too

[8:15] Malburns Writer: k - loading

[8:15] Babbage Linden: we're going through them at the moment triaging

[8:15] Babbage Linden: any issues that are particularly problematic for you atm?

[8:17] pipinpa Allen: hi there :)

[8:17] Malburns Writer: Not for me - not on tech side of things - news here really - we met again brifly yesterdat at WVE

[8:17] Babbage Linden: hello

[8:17] Fake Fitzgerald: hi

[8:17] Babbage Linden: thanks for coming

[8:17] pipinpa Allen: :)

[8:17] Babbage Linden: i've been seeing announcements about people releasing mono versions of products

[8:17] Babbage Linden: which is good

[8:17] Babbage Linden: seems like people are getting the confidence to use mono in anger now

[8:20] Babbage Linden: have any of you been seeing .net error messages when using mono recently?

[8:21] Babbage Linden: looks like http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2908 is still getting comments

[8:21] Fake Fitzgerald: I have not seen mono errors recently.

[8:22] pipinpa Allen: 91votes!

[8:22] pipinpa Allen: ahh

[8:23] pipinpa Allen: well, Babbge

[8:23] Babbage Linden: it was a big issue pipinpa

[8:23] pipinpa Allen: is the UK is cold today?

[8:23] pipinpa Allen: brrrr?

[8:24] Babbage Linden: but we've fixed most of the problems

[8:24] Babbage Linden: there seem to be some issues still causing .net exceptions

[8:24] Babbage Linden: but they are far less frequent

[8:24] Malburns Writer: Not too bad Pipina - some sun lol

[8:24] pipinpa Allen: i see

[8:24] pipinpa Allen: ahh lol

[8:24] Babbage Linden: hi trinity

[8:24] Trinity Coulter: hi :)

[8:24] Babbage Linden: we went to be the beach at lunch time

[8:24] Fake Fitzgerald: hi Trinity

[8:24] Babbage Linden: it's pretty sunny in brighton

[8:25] pipinpa Allen: lovery day :)

[8:25] Fake Fitzgerald: I have no error for mono scripts, but I have a question for mono scripts about memory usage.

[8:25] pipinpa Allen: hi :)

[8:26] Malburns Writer: I have been asked what may be an off-topic question, but is release on Mono 2 significant in any way as far as impact on SL?

[8:26] Fake Fitzgerald: is the garbage collection of mono scripts asynchronous?

[8:27] Babbage Linden: fake, no it happens synchronously

[8:27] Babbage Linden: but the managed heap is small, so it doesn't take long

[8:27] Babbage Linden: we haven't seen any GC pauses of any significant length

[8:28] Babbage Linden: malburns, we may be moving to mono 2.0 in the future

[8:28] Babbage Linden: we need it's verifier for C#

[8:28] Babbage Linden: but none of the other features are particularly important to us

[8:29] Malburns Writer: ok

[8:29] Arawn Spitteler: Mono comes from ssomewhere?

[8:30] Babbage Linden: mono is an open source project

[8:32] Object: Hello, Avatar!

[8:32] Object  [script:mono GC test]: Script run-time error

[8:32] Object  [script:mono GC test]: Stack-Heap Collision

[8:33] Object  [script:mono GC test]: Script run-time error

[8:33] Object  [script:mono GC test]: Stack-Heap Collision

[8:33] Babbage Linden: thanks fake

[8:33] Babbage Linden: what does it do?

[8:33] Babbage Linden: i can't mod it

[8:33] Fake Fitzgerald: this scripts shows the garbage collect of mono scipts is asynchronous, I think..

[8:34] Fake Fitzgerald: sorry lol

[8:34] Fake Fitzgerald: fill the list in first loop, and replace same length of list in second loop

[8:35] Fake Fitzgerald: and llSetText for times of second loop

[8:35] Fake Fitzgerald: reset the script and touch the prim

[8:36] Babbage Linden: drat, i'm not using the rc viewer so can't test it

[8:36] Babbage Linden: i'll check it out later

[8:36] Fake Fitzgerald: ok

[8:36] Arawn Spitteler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mono_(software)

[8:38] Babbage Linden: arawn, yes that's the mono we're talking about

[8:38] Babbage Linden: it now runs scripts in second life

[8:40] Babbage Linden: are any of you using mono for things you can demo?

[8:41] Arawn Spitteler just let's things copile to Mono

[8:41] Babbage Linden: great

[8:41] Babbage Linden: and you haven't had any issues?

[8:41] Arawn Spitteler: Not yet, but I tend to light scripting.

[8:42] Arawn Spitteler: My big challeng e now is meta programming, where I figure out how to order my thoughts

[8:42] Babbage Linden: well, that's good

[8:42] Babbage Linden: if the language is not getting in your way

[8:43] Arawn Spitteler: LSL I can handle, but I find it's time for modular viewer optimization, so greaphics cards don't get smoked by Windlight

[8:44] Arawn Spitteler: I've got to learn enough Java, to translate the viewer source to C++

[8:44] Arawn Spitteler: How different is C# from C++?

[8:44] Babbage Linden: c# is closer to java

[8:45] Babbage Linden: but it has many of the same features as c++

[8:45] Babbage Linden: classes, objects, inheritence etc.

[8:45] Arawn Spitteler: Whether you can write a compiler to compile itself, C# was tested, but I don't think Java was.

[8:46] Arawn Spitteler: I recall there was a book written, to prove that 1+1=2, so there might be a word for that sort of thing

[8:46] Babbage Linden: you can generally bootstrap a language to compile itself

[8:46] Babbage Linden: as soon as it can do file i/o

[8:47] Babbage Linden: the biggest news this week is that http in has passed qa

[8:47] Babbage Linden: and we're planning to deploy it to the preview grid soon

[8:47] Arawn Spitteler: Http-In?

[8:47] Babbage Linden: it allows LSL scripts to be HTTP servers

[8:47] Babbage Linden: they can request HTTP urls

[8:47] Babbage Linden: and then process HTTP requests to that URL

[8:48] pipinpa Allen: ahh, intersting

[8:48] Arawn Spitteler: So, once I've scripted Collosal Cave, into LSL, we'll be able to bring blind people in world

[8:49] Arawn Spitteler: This is the other side of HTTPRequest? Won't that soak up Sim resources?

[8:49] Babbage Linden: not really

[8:49] Babbage Linden: it's less resource intensive than XML-RPC or email as we don't do routing

[8:49] Babbage Linden: instead of finding a script and delivering it an email or XML-RPC call

[8:49] Babbage Linden: we just give the script a URL

[8:50] Babbage Linden: which it can tell other scripts about

[8:50] Babbage Linden: or send outside SL

[8:50] Babbage Linden: and then normal routing will find the script

[8:50] Babbage Linden: so we lean on the internet

[8:51] Babbage Linden: if a region goes down or the script moves it needs to re-request and publish it's URL

[8:51] Babbage Linden: but it's easy to write a URL mapper

[8:51] Babbage Linden: as an external web service

[8:51] Babbage Linden: that will redirect requests to the currently registered URL

[8:52] Babbage Linden: for a service in SL

[8:52] Babbage Linden: and then use REST to provide links from that entry point URL

[8:52] Babbage Linden: which would like a lot like dynamic DNS

[8:52] Malburns Writer: will this impact/enhance web displays on land feed?

[8:53] Babbage Linden: it's not about embedding web pages in SL

[8:53] Babbage Linden: it's about being able to exchange data with the web from LSL scripts

[8:53] Babbage Linden: bidirectionally

[8:53] Babbage Linden: currently LSL scripts can call out to the web

[8:53] Babbage Linden: but need to poll if they want to sync with external data

[8:53] Malburns Writer: k - just wondered if had additional implications

[8:54] Babbage Linden: with http in they will be able to make a request and give a URL

[8:54] Babbage Linden: which can be called back when data changes

[8:54] Babbage Linden: to avoid polling

[8:55] Babbage Linden: it will make SL web applications much easier to write

[8:55] Babbage Linden: and will be more reliable than XML-RPC or email

[8:55] pipinpa Allen: i think so

[8:55] Babbage Linden: which currently get overloaded

[8:55] Babbage Linden: and perform badly

[8:55] Malburns Writer: great - i understand the principle

[8:56] Babbage Linden: hopefully i'll have more information about it for you next week

[8:57] pipinpa Allen: thank you for giving good news :)

[8:57] Arawn Spitteler: Have we something like a changed event for Sim Crash?

[8:57] Babbage Linden: yes, the script will be told via changed when there has been a restart

[8:57] Babbage Linden: or region crossing

[8:58] Babbage Linden: so it can re-request and publish urls

[8:58] Arawn Spitteler: So it would be a CHANGED_REFGION

[8:59] Babbage Linden: yes

[8:59] Arawn Spitteler: There was some discussion, s to whether such an option existed

[8:59] Arawn Spitteler: It was an idea, of sending tps to attendees who got booted by sim crashes

[9:00] Arawn Spitteler: Soon but not yet?

[9:00] Babbage Linden: it will be available with http in on preview soon

[9:00] Babbage Linden: but you will be able to use it for other applications

[9:01] Babbage Linden: ok, i need to go

[9:01] Babbage Linden: thanks for coming everyone

[9:01] Malburns Writer: thanks Babbage

[9:01] pipinpa Allen: :)

[9:01] Babbage Linden: i'll give more details about http in next week

[9:01] Larry Massey: wrapping up

[9:01] Arawn Spitteler: I think it might have been during a rash o fsim resets

[9:01] Babbage Linden: and hopefully news on the preview

[9:01] Larry Massey: too bad, wanted to talk about http

[9:01] Babbage Linden: next week larry :-)

[9:02] Babbage Linden: see you then

[9:02] Arawn Spitteler: We'll be able to sit here, and play Collasal Cave in Preview?

[9:02] pipinpa Allen: see ya soon :)

[9:02] Malburns Writer: bye