User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2007 Aug 21

Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:

[10:01]	Jacek Antonelli:	Heya Ben :)
[10:01]	Torley Linden shouts: It's BEN!!!!
[10:02]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Torley! :-)
[10:02]	Torley Linden:	Heyhey!
[10:02]	Benjamin Linden:	good morning everyone
[10:02]	Nock Forager:	mornin!
[10:02]	Oryx Tempel:	morning
[10:02]	JayR Cela:	hey there
[10:03]	Tao Takashi:	Hey Ben
[10:03]	Torley Linden:	Yo Logan!
[10:03]	Logan Linden:	hi
[10:03]	Tao Takashi:	who is coming to SLCC?
[10:03]	Jacek Antonelli:	heya Logan
[10:03]	Benjamin Linden:	hey Logan
[10:03]	Nock Forager:	hi logan
[10:03]	Benjamin Linden:	I won't be making it to SLCC unfortunately
[10:03]	Logan Linden:	hi, just here to listen in
[10:03]	Multi Gadget v1.52.0 by Timeless Prototype
[10:03]	Benjamin Linden:	but we do have a good number of lindens coming
[10:03]	Tao Takashi:	awww :(
[10:03]	Benjamin Linden:	pretty light crowd today
[10:03]	Torley Linden:	*nod*
[10:03]	Benjamin Linden:	I wonder where everyone is
[10:04]	JayR Cela:	ben / good / what are we discussing today ??
[10:04]	Tao Takashi:	in Chicago ;-)
[10:04]	Benjamin Linden:	let me grab the agenda
[10:04]	Tao Takashi:	I am also just shortly hear just to be somewhat in touch :) need to get working again soon
[10:04]	Benjamin Linden:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/UI_Agenda
[10:05]	Benjamin Linden:	looks like we don't have any bugfix patches today (at least since the agenda was created)
[10:06]	Benjamin Linden:	so let's have a look at the first bug
[10:06]	Benjamin Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1875
[10:06]	Benjamin Linden:	it's actually under feature request patches
[10:06]	Torley Linden:	Heya Aric and Iridium!
[10:06]	Torley Linden:	:D
[10:06]	Iridium Linden:	Hiya!
[10:06]	Benjamin Linden:	hey guys
[10:07]	Iridium Linden:	Why am I always late to these? Jeez.
[10:07]	Torley Linden:	VWR-1875 sounds like a bigger projective, conducive with something we're already been planning within Studio Shiny?
[10:07]	Jacek Antonelli:	Heya
[10:07]	Aric Linden:	hello
[10:07]	Benjamin Linden:	wow Lindens outnumber Residents today :-)
[10:07]	Benjamin Linden:	we were just getting started
[10:07]	Benjamin Linden:	on https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1875
[10:07]	Benja Kepler:	only numerically speaking
[10:07]	Aric Linden:	hmm
[10:07]	Benjamin Linden:	this is a pretty incredible patch if it works
[10:07]	Iridium Linden:	Thank you.
[10:07]	Roof Doors:	Aric Linden is at the door.
[10:07]	Aric Linden:	wonders if he's needed?
[10:07]	Torley Linden:	Intriguing...
[10:08]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yes, very interesting. I'm drooling a bit here
[10:08]	Benjamin Linden:	we've been planning to do this internally but if this patch does it, that would be fantastic
[10:08]	Iridium Linden:	Should we import it?
[10:09]	Benjamin Linden:	most definitely
[10:09]	Iridium Linden:	kk
[10:09]	Benjamin Linden:	we'll need to run it by Steve to see if it fits into his plans for supporting skinning
[10:09]	Torley Linden:	Aric I think your insights are needed. =)
[10:09]	Aric Linden:	grins
[10:09]	Aric Linden:	thanks torley.
[10:09]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-787
[10:10]	JayR Cela:	hmmm my experience with skinning is minimal / mostly WinAmp / and it is a mess
[10:10]	JayR Cela:	I would hate to see the SL Client turn into a mish mash of unsuportable skins
[10:10]	Benjamin Linden:	well certainly it would be optional for people to use skins
[10:11]	JayR Cela:	just my opinion is all
[10:11]	Benjamin Linden:	but we receive frequent requests for an ability to customize the client
[10:11]	Benjamin Linden:	especially lately with the communicate window :-)
[10:11]	Oryx Tempel:	I was just going to say that
[10:11]	Jacek Antonelli grins
[10:11]	Oryx Tempel:	lots of people complain about the size
[10:11]	Nock Forager:	but it's would be wonderful people can choose. Something like basic mode and advance mode.
[10:11]	JayR Cela:	Ben dont evan get me started on the new communicate window / YUCK !!
[10:11]	Benjamin Linden:	it's already possible to do basic customization of the XUI
[10:12]	Iridium Linden:	Yup
[10:12]	Oryx Tempel:	but it's not obvious to most
[10:12]	Iridium Linden:	I think there's a wiki on that.
[10:12]	Nock Forager:	oh
[10:12]	Benjamin Linden:	but the current implementation overwrites changes everytime you update
[10:12]	Jacek Antonelli:	It would make developing the UI more convenient, which is nice from my perspective
[10:12]	Benjamin Linden:	it looks like this patch may address that, which would be fantastic
[10:12]	Torley Linden:	Wow, there are so many subtleties in Second Life.
[10:13]	Benjamin Linden:	JayR, I'd love to talk to you more about your problems with the Communicate window, could you come to office hours on Thursday to discuss?
[10:13]	Iridium Linden:	Shall we import and move on/
[10:13]	Benjamin Linden:	we're still evolving the design
[10:13]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, please Iridium
[10:13]	Iridium Linden:	?
[10:13]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-787
[10:13]	Iridium Linden:	Typos, ack.
[10:13]	Torley Linden:	*imports and moves on too*
[10:13]	JayR Cela:	Ben I can be here thursday / NP
[10:14]	Benjamin Linden:	great, thanks JayR!
[10:14]	Jacek Antonelli:	VWR-787 seems easy enough, if Spike Linden has confirmed it?
[10:14]	Jacek Antonelli:	Import, if it hasn't been already?
[10:14]	Torley Linden:	Yeah... I haven't seen VWR-787 myself; I'd change priority to Major.
[10:14]	Tao Takashi:	k, I gotta head out but will be back after SLCC :-) Have fun everybody!
[10:15]	Benja Kepler:	cya
[10:15]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks Tao, see ya!
[10:15]	Torley Linden:	Take care Tao!
[10:15]	Iridium Linden:	K, bye, Tao!
[10:15]	Oryx Tempel:	ciao
[10:15]	Torley Linden:	I can ping Spike about it too.
[10:15]	Iridium Linden:	SEe you there!
[10:15]	Nock Forager:	cya Tao!
[10:15]	Iridium Linden:	So import this one?
[10:15]	Benjamin Linden:	yeah, this seems reasonable
[10:15]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2010
[10:15]	Torley Linden:	It's been around awhile; it involves Building and Permissions too so I'll add those components.
[10:15]	Torley Linden:	*imports*
[10:16]	JayR Cela:	Toprley I think it would be nice to actually know what I am returning to people / right now all we get is the number of objects to be returned / a description of each object about to be returned would be nice
[10:16]	Benja Kepler:	vwr-2010 has a great comment by Soft : " you've created a situation where a couple having sex, might miss an ultra important Linden notice "
[10:16]	Benjamin Linden:	that's a good idea JayR
[10:17]	JayR Cela:	ben TY
[10:17]	Torley Linden:	JayR: You also know that to-be-returned objects glow inworld (altho that's hard to see), yes?
[10:17]	Benjamin Linden:	this is a tricky one
[10:17]	Iridium Linden:	Frankly a description would drive me nuts. Especially if I'm returning 500 items.
[10:17]	Jacek Antonelli:	VWR-2010 is a tough one to solve... both front-to-back and back-to-front have good and bad points
[10:17]	Torley Linden:	See Soft's comment in that.
[10:17]	JayR Cela:	Torley / I yes but usually the wrong objects seem to be glowing / at least that has been my experience
[10:18]	Benjamin Linden:	I think we originally approved it but sounds like there were some additional complications
[10:18]	Torley Linden:	JayR: We should have a repro for that, then, since it sounds buggy. Evidence helps. =o)
[10:18]	Oryx Tempel:	question about 2010
[10:18]	Iridium Linden:	So how shall we proceed with 2010?
[10:18]	Benjamin Linden:	sure, Oryx
[10:18]	Oryx Tempel:	it's talking about ultra important notices like Linden shut down etc
[10:18]	Oryx Tempel:	anyway to make those a different color and higher priority?
[10:19]	Oryx Tempel:	and the rest just average
[10:19]	Iridium Linden:	That's an idea, Oryx.
[10:19]	Torley Linden:	You know, that's interesting -- since we DID change the appearance of the debit permissions dialog.
[10:19]	Iridium Linden:	Wonder how hard that would be.
[10:19]	Oryx Tempel:	yup
[10:19]	Torley Linden:	It makes sense to me.
[10:19]	Benjamin Linden:	right Torley
[10:19]	Benjamin Linden:	good idea Oryx
[10:19]	Oryx Tempel:	:)
[10:19]	JayR Cela:	Oryx / good idea about differnt color for important notices / besides just the normal Blue color
[10:19]	Benjamin Linden:	Torley can you add a note to that effect
[10:20]	Iridium Linden:	Especially with Het-Grid rolling out.
[10:20]	Benjamin Linden:	and let's plan to discuss this at our internal rx triage
[10:20]	Iridium Linden:	That would be really helpful.
[10:20]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2046
[10:20]	Torley Linden:	Oryx, sounds like a good idea for future feature request for next UI hour perhaps if you want to create a new issue and link... I'll add a note too.
[10:20]	Torley Linden:	Did you want me to import 2010 too, Ben?
[10:20]	Iridium Linden:	So we'll import 2010, no?
[10:20]	Oryx Tempel:	maybe a subtask to 2010?
[10:20]	Iridium Linden:	That would work, Oryx.
[10:20]	Oryx Tempel:	kk will do
[10:21]	Benjamin Linden:	subtask sounds good
[10:21]	Iridium Linden:	What shall we do with the parent task?
[10:21]	Oryx Tempel:	I like newest below oldest...just IMO
[10:21]	Torley Linden:	I'm fine with importing it so we can keep track of it... if that sounds good to you guys?
[10:21]	Benjamin Linden:	I thought this was already imported
[10:21]	Torley Linden:	Not yet. :)
[10:22]	Iridium Linden:	Doesn't have a corresponding key.
[10:22]	Benjamin Linden:	but yes, let's go ahead and import. Torley can you add the rxtriage tag
[10:22]	Iridium Linden:	K, so import and 2046!
[10:22]	Torley Linden:	Will do!
[10:22]	Torley Linden:	Done.
[10:22]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2046
[10:23]	Aric Linden:	I agree with Benja on this one
[10:23]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm not so sure, Aric
[10:23]	Benjamin Linden:	since these are non-modal messages
[10:23]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hrmm. Stealing keyboard focus is not nice.
[10:24]	Benjamin Linden:	and aren't intended to take the user's attention fully away from what they're doing
[10:24]	Benjamin Linden:	I could see how if you get a lot of group notices, etc, this could become very problematic while you're trying to talk to people
[10:25]	Aric Linden:	yes, but then they either stack up or you have to click to dismiss. the annoyance ends up being six of one and half a dozen of the other, I think.
[10:25]	Oryx Tempel:	I disagree with this one... esp for newbies who need to pay attention to what's going on
[10:25]	Benjamin Linden:	we should talk to richard to see if there is a keyboard affordance for navigating to the pop-up
[10:25]	Benja Kepler:	so, if you change the colour, then the focus will go along with that change too?
[10:26]	Benjamin Linden:	right
[10:26]	Benjamin Linden:	I was going to ask Torley to link this to the previous bug
[10:26]	Jacek Antonelli:	Generally, it makes the interface less predictable -- the keyboard focus could be taken away from chat at any time.
[10:26]	Benja Kepler:	(i.e. you decide which are modal and which are non-modal by colour)
[10:26]	Benjamin Linden:	critical notices can take focus
[10:26]	Torley Linden:	I'll link 'em...
[10:26]	JayR Cela:	yep changeing the color should be easy to implement
[10:26]	Benjamin Linden:	but I agree with Jacek, most of the time you don't want focus changing unexpectedly
[10:26]	Benja Kepler:	what colour would you like Torley?
[10:26]	Benja Kepler grins
[10:26]	Iridium Linden:	haha
[10:26]	Benjamin Linden:	it drives me nuts everytime I run SL that the client steals focus from my other apps like three times while it's loading
[10:26]	Iridium Linden:	as if you didn't know ...
[10:27]	JayR Cela:	red for critical stuff
[10:27]	Iridium Linden:	But don't make her choose one!
[10:27]	Nock Forager:	lol
[10:27]	Benja Kepler hums Melon Snow...
[10:27]	Jacek Antonelli:	Is there any reason why notices (even important ones) require keyboard focus? We're talking about the blue dialogs, right? (money transfers, group notices)
[10:27]	Torley Linden:	Hahaha... :D
[10:27]	Iridium Linden:	lol
[10:27]	Benjamin Linden:	so let's go ahead and import this for discussion along with the other notification issues
[10:27]	Torley Linden:	Well, not a total red but pinkish-red perhaps, so the text would be readable.
[10:27]	Iridium Linden:	Ah, so much love for Torley.
[10:27]	Torley Linden:	But I'll import this for now.
[10:27]	Iridium Linden:	hehe
[10:27]	Benjamin Linden:	I would like to see this marinate for a while and gather more votes and comments though
[10:27]	Torley Linden:	That Melon Snow thing was spontaneous silliness!
[10:27]	Iridium Linden:	k, so moving on then?
[10:27]	Jacek Antonelli:	Aye
[10:27]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1405
[10:28]	Benja Kepler:	gave me the giggles Sunday morning
[10:28]	Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...
	[10:28]  Connected
[10:28]	Torley Linden:	Thanks for watching. =o)
[10:28]	Torley Linden:	(For later, Melon Snow -- http://youtube.com/watch?v=eaE0oymCrwg )
[10:28]	Benja Kepler:	I just tried this (vwr-1045) and got ok results with smallish negative numbers....
[10:28]	Benjamin Linden:	this one isn't really a UI bug
[10:28]	DewMar Martinek:	Hello
[10:29]	Benja Kepler:	so I'm not sure what the prob is
[10:29]	Benjamin Linden:	hi DewMar
[10:29]	Iridium Linden:	Shall we mark as needs more info?
[10:29]	Iridium Linden:	And move on?
[10:29]	Aric Linden:	Benja, are you on a winmac?
[10:29]	DewMar Martinek:	Just a quick question. I am a newbie. Where can i go to get more information on secondlife
[10:29]	Jacek Antonelli:	Seems it applies to OSX on intel only?
[10:29]	Benjamin Linden:	well someone else followed up and said it's a problem
[10:29]	Aric Linden:	or a mactel?
[10:29]	Torley Linden:	Hmm it looks like VWR-1405 is actually a dupe of VWR-2060?
[10:29]	Benja Kepler:	Aric, MS Vista .....
[10:30]	JayR Cela:	Jacek / sounds like a compiler issue / mabey
[10:30]	Torley Linden:	I've seen a similar problem (with SLURLs) on Windows too.
[10:30]	Benjamin Linden:	Torley, can you go ahead import this but remove the UI component
[10:30]	Benjamin Linden:	unless I'm misunderstanding this, it sounds like a scripting problem
[10:30]	Benja Kepler:	CPU: AMD (Unknown model) (2263 MHz)
[10:30]	Aric Linden:	Torley, please assign it to triage
[10:30]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-492
[10:30]	Aric Linden:	and we'll look at it this week
[10:30]	Torley Linden:	OK -- I think this should perhaps be resolved as dupe, and VWR-2060 is already imported as SL-51900.
[10:30]	Torley Linden:	I'll do that Aric!
[10:30]	Aric Linden:	please link it to 51900 as well. Thanks!
[10:30]	Benjamin Linden:	ah ok
[10:31]	Torley Linden:	Sure!
[10:31]	DewMar Martinek:	thanks
[10:31]	Jacek Antonelli:	Ah, I've had VWR-492 -- very annoying! :(
[10:31]	Benjamin Linden:	ok cool, next up
[10:31]	Oryx Tempel:	492 happens to me all the time
[10:31]	Benjamin Linden:	Jacek & Oryx, you guys may want to add your comments to the bug
[10:32]	Benjamin Linden:	ok next
[10:32]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1286
[10:32]	Iridium Linden:	We imported 492, no?
[10:32]	Torley Linden:	PJIRA is crawling on me right now...
[10:32]	Benja Kepler:	I couldn't repro 1286 today so I don't understand the prob
[10:33]	Jacek Antonelli brushes it off Torley's shoulder
[10:33]	Daedalus Young:	I've seen it happening
[10:33]	Torley Linden:	Yes Iridium, impprted that.
[10:33]	Daedalus Young:	alt-click on a hollow face, but camera focuses on where the outside of the prim 'would be'
[10:33]	Iridium Linden:	Thanks, Torley.
[10:34]	Benjamin Linden:	hmm I couldn't get that movie to run
[10:34]	Daedalus Young:	I'm downoading it now
[10:34]	Jacek Antonelli looks around for a hollow prim...
[10:34]	Benja Kepler:	videos don't play right away? you can download it though
[10:35]	Benja Kepler:	I uploaded it today
[10:35]	Daedalus Young:	no, it's wmv, that doesn't play automatically on Mac :P
[10:35]	Benjamin Linden:	ok I'll try downloading
[10:35]	Daedalus Young:	here's a hollowed prim
[10:36]	Benjamin Linden:	Benja your video shows that this is fixed?
[10:36]	Benja Kepler:	it shows I couldn't repro it
[10:36]	Daedalus Young:	camera for me still 'thinks' this is a full cylinder, when I click on the inside
[10:36]	Benja Kepler:	but did I miss something?
[10:36]	Daedalus Young:	I'll do a video repro of it
[10:36]	Jacek Antonelli:	Hmm, I'm reproing it on the cylinder I made next door
[10:37]	Jacek Antonelli:	I think...
[10:37]	Torley Linden:	Yeah, this one is hard to understand without a video.
[10:37]	Benjamin Linden:	it seems to be working with this cylinder
[10:37]	Oryx Tempel:	works for me
[10:38]	Benjamin Linden:	maybe I don't understand the problem
[10:38]	Jacek Antonelli:	It's definitely setting the pivot point for the camera to someplace that is *not* where I clicked on the prim
[10:38]	Benjamin Linden:	I have noticed that Jacek
[10:38]	Daedalus Young:	if you zoom in way on the hollow face, the cam goes into 'zoom mode' as it does when you're trying to alt-in on a transparent face
[10:38]	Benjamin Linden:	I think the pivot poitn is always the center
[10:38]	Oryx Tempel:	no, i'm focusing all over the inside...
[10:38]	Oryx Tempel:	i can't get it to not work
[10:38]	Jacek Antonelli:	Ben: when I do the same thing on the outside of the cylinder, it focuses exactly where I click
[10:39]	Torley Linden:	(I won't be able to repro this one for now because the WindLight viewer has some zoom bug oddities.)
[10:39]	Daedalus Young:	oh, I'll do a video, it's easy to repro if you make a hollow cube of 10x10m, stand inside it and click on the hollowed side
[10:39]	Benjamin Linden:	I get the same pivot point no matter where I click on the cylinder
[10:39]	Daedalus Young:	the cam will then move outside the cube
[10:39]	Iridium Linden:	omg, are you in the WindLight viewer, Torley?
[10:39]	Benja Kepler:	it has to be 10x10x10?
[10:39]	Iridium Linden is jealous.
[10:39]	Benjamin Linden:	so I think it might be confusion related to where the pivot point is set
[10:39]	Daedalus Young:	no, it doesn't have to be
[10:40]	Benja Kepler:	my one in the vid was
[10:40]	Torley Linden:	Yes, Iridium. :)
[10:40]	Iridium Linden:	omg, so kewl.
[10:40]	Benjamin Linden:	Benjamin is too :-)
[10:40]	Iridium Linden:	Oh, man! I'
[10:40]	Iridium Linden:	I've gotta get me one of those.
[10:40]	Benjamin Linden:	my house looks fantastic in windlight :-)
[10:40]	Benjamin Linden:	ok I'm kind of at a loss about this one
[10:40]	Benjamin Linden:	it's not really a UI issue per se
[10:40]	Benjamin Linden:	more of a render issue
[10:41]	Benjamin Linden:	but I think we need to investigate this further
[10:41]	Iridium Linden:	What shall we do with this one then?
[10:41]	JayR Cela:	Ben whats the deal with Windloght so far ??
[10:41]	Jacek Antonelli:	Eh. A little of both.
[10:41]	Torley Linden:	JayR, see my project update: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Torley_Linden
[10:41]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yes, needs more investigation
[10:41]	Benjamin Linden:	I'd like to get some feedback from Richard or someone who understands the render engine
[10:41]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1730
[10:41]	JayR Cela:	Torley TY
[10:41]	Benjamin Linden:	let's leave this open for now, perhaps ping for more info
[10:41]	Torley Linden:	If we're going to look at VWR-1286, also look at VWR-98... not clear how same-ish they are.
[10:41]	Iridium Linden:	So import? Or leave it?
[10:41]	Daedalus Young:	well, I'll do a video later, making it clearer, hopefully :P
[10:41]	Iridium Linden:	kk
[10:42]	Torley Linden:	VWR-98 is imported, BTW.
[10:42]	Iridium Linden:	1730!
[10:42]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks Daedalus
[10:42]	Jacek Antonelli:	Ah, I've noticed 1730, but it didn't bother me enough to think of it as a bug
[10:43]	Daedalus Young:	we discussed 1730 earlier, but decided to wait for more opinions
[10:43]	Nock Forager:	Me too, I like current behavior.
[10:43]	Benjamin Linden:	ack this keeps rearing its head
[10:43]	Benjamin Linden:	I need to spend some time with the new options that were put in preferences around accepting inventory
[10:43]	Torley Linden:	Yeah, there is not a clear decision on this...
[10:44]	Torley Linden:	It's "Small" priority too so it's not a big deal, relatively speaking... not a lot of new people commented either, and there's only 2 votes.
[10:44]	Oryx Tempel:	three now :)
[10:44]	Torley Linden:	=)
[10:44]	Iridium Linden:	That's a fairly big fish these days, lol.
[10:44]	Iridium Linden:	So what shall we do with it?>
[10:44]	Iridium Linden:	Change priority and import?
[10:45]	Torley Linden:	3 votes is a "fairly big fish", you mean, Iridium?
[10:45]	Iridium Linden:	Yup
[10:45]	Iridium Linden:	:)
[10:45]	Torley Linden:	Oh -- relative to top-voted JIRA issues (which go into the 100s) it's not.
[10:45]	Oryx Tempel:	i think it's really minor though
[10:45]	Benjamin Linden:	not necessarily for a feature request
[10:45]	Benjamin Linden:	which is really what this is
[10:45]	Jacek Antonelli:	There are several "not-voting" comments, though
[10:45]	Iridium Linden:	Ah, those are meta issues though, aren't they?
[10:45]	Torley Linden:	Iridium: Some, not all.
[10:45]	Oryx Tempel loves meta issues
[10:45]	Iridium Linden:	I'd love to look at the stats, Torley.
[10:46]	Benjamin Linden:	torley can you import this and assign it to me
[10:46]	Daedalus Young:	yes, I'm a 'no-voter' on it :P
[10:46]	Torley Linden:	Sure Ben.
[10:46]	Benjamin Linden:	I need to investigate this further at some point
[10:46]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2033
[10:46]	Torley Linden:	=^_^=
[10:46]	Iridium Linden loves JIRA stats.
[10:47]	Benjamin Linden:	oh I just realized why we have such a light crowd
[10:47]	Benjamin Linden:	SLCC
[10:47]	Daedalus Young:	I have seen a similar issue earlier: directly communicating with something or somebody muted un-mutes them
[10:47]	Torley Linden:	Me too Iridium.
[10:47]	Benjamin Linden:	Torley, this is related to that other bug about mute confusing international residents
[10:48]	Iridium Linden:	:)
[10:48]	JayR Cela:	Torley this seems like a no~brainer to me / add the option to un-mute should be a given
[10:48]	Benjamin Linden:	I think we need some sort of convention for when you try to interract with people you've muted we give a warning
[10:48]	Torley Linden:	As noted in the comments, not only "mute", but "busy" is a problem...
[10:48]	JayR Cela:	Ben I agree 100%
[10:48]	Clarlicka Burger gave you Linden.
[10:49]	Jacek Antonelli:	Yes, agree
[10:49]	Torley Linden:	I'll link it to that other issue too.
[10:49]	Iridium Linden:	Does this confuse everyone or is it linguistically related?
[10:49]	Benjamin Linden:	Torley, can you import this and link it to the other bug
[10:49]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks!
[10:49]	Torley Linden:	=)
[10:49]	Daedalus Young:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1735 is the other issue more or less duplicating this
[10:49]	Daedalus Young:	idea is the same I think
[10:49]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1095
[10:49]	Benjamin Linden:	that's a good one too Daelalus
[10:49]	Benjamin Linden:	Daedalus
[10:49]	Torley Linden:	I'll link that too Daedalus, thanx.
[10:50]	Daedalus Young:	ok, yw
[10:50]	Torley Linden:	Sharp eyez!
[10:50]	Benjamin Linden:	yeah really!
[10:50]	Benja Kepler:	the failed uploads in 1095 seem to be the sort of failure that would lead one to relog so..... it's another one I don't quite understand
[10:50]	Daedalus Young:	sharp memory, sometimes
[10:50]	Benja Kepler:	(and is difficult to repro)
[10:51]	Daedalus Young:	I did have failed uploads in the past, but I was able to just upload it again a while later
[10:51]	Torley Linden:	Failed uploads are more prone to happen with server issues when we've got Grid difficulties.
[10:51]	Torley Linden:	I sometimes see failed uploads when sending postcards.
[10:51]	Daedalus Young:	yes, there were grid issues at the time
[10:51]	Benjamin Linden:	is this a no-repro?
[10:51]	Torley Linden:	If you try to send a postcard but "Your Email" doesn't autopopulate, it's a good indicator that something is wrong with the database.
[10:51]	Daedalus Young:	when that was over, I was able to upload
[10:51]	Iridium Linden:	Agreed, Torley.
[10:52]	Benja Kepler:	it's like, id it's raining, you take an umbrella
[10:52]	Benja Kepler:	*if
[10:52]	Torley Linden:	Hehe.
[10:52]	Iridium Linden:	So what shall we do with this one?
[10:52]	Iridium Linden:	Needs more info?
[10:52]	Torley Linden:	I'd resolve as "Needs More Info" if there's a repro ASIDE from Grid issues.
[10:52]	Iridium Linden:	right
[10:52]	Daedalus Young:	well at least More Info, this goes up to 1.17, so it could be different now
[10:52]	Iridium Linden:	kewl
[10:53]	Torley Linden:	OK, done. =)
[10:53]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1754
[10:53]	Benja Kepler:	(vwr-1754) I think the slurl is a good thing, and since you can click on it the Chat History, it should be kept. Perhaps it could be shrunk in the message dialog.
[10:54]	Benjamin Linden:	but the notification doesn't appear in Chat history does it?
[10:54]	Torley Linden:	Benja, so the message dialog shows a condensed version but Chat History retains the full, clickable SLURL?
[10:54]	Benja Kepler:	for objects that give you notecards the message appears in chat history
[10:54]	Jacek Antonelli:	It DOES appear in chat history. Yes.
[10:54]	Oryx Tempel:	This is a cool idea... maybe a lower priority though?
[10:55]	Benjamin Linden:	I like this too, it does seem less cluttered
[10:55]	Torley Linden:	I reckon Nicholaz could do a patch for this too if he wanted. :D
[10:55]	Benjamin Linden:	what would be ideal is it would be a clickable link in both places, using the region/location as the link title
[10:55]	Daedalus Young:	at the very least, it doesn't have to be a slurl.com address, simply secondlife:// would work too
[10:55]	Torley Linden:	I wish we could click on SLURLs in dialog boxes and chat console (the transparent overlay).
[10:55]	Daedalus Young:	already taking out a good deal of clutter
[10:56]	Jacek Antonelli:	agreed, Daedalus
[10:56]	Benjamin Linden:	let's go ahead and import this as low-priority
[10:56]	Torley Linden:	Ok, changed priority to Small, imported.
[10:57]	Benjamin Linden:	ok where are we
[10:57]	Benjamin Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1980
[10:57]	Iridium Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-1980
[10:57]	Iridium Linden:	Ack, thanks, Benjamin.
[10:57]	Benjamin Linden:	np!
[10:58]	Jacek Antonelli:	1980 makes sense
[10:58]	JayR Cela:	I hate to just listen and leave / but I need to attend to RL / as a side note I will be havong open house at my castle Saterday the 25 4:00pm PDT / everyone is welcome / you can find the location in my profile under Picks
[10:58]	Benjamin Linden:	so with regards to this bug, we've already changed teh behavior of the friends list
[10:58]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks JayR!
[10:59]	Torley Linden:	Have a good one JayR. Thanks for being with us. :)
[10:59]	Benja Kepler:	cool, cya jayr
[10:59]	JayR Cela:	Everyone is welcome to come by / is just one big party place
[10:59]	Benjamin Linden:	that bottom panel no longer exists and you will be able to edit the permissions (view on map, edit my objects, etc) directly in the list
[10:59]	Jacek Antonelli:	Even better, Ben :D
[10:59]	JayR Cela:	bye~byee everyone
[10:59]	Iridium Linden:	Bye!
[10:59]	Daedalus Young:	bye
[10:59]	Oryx Tempel:	Bye!
[10:59]	Nock Forager:	cya
[10:59]	Benjamin Linden:	take care JayR
[10:59]	Miya Watanabe:	bye
[10:59]	Jacek Antonelli:	Those little icons are just so clickable-looking already :D
[11:00]	Benjamin Linden:	right
[11:00]	Benjamin Linden:	so we can resolve this as fixed internally
[11:00]	Iridium Linden:	kk
[11:00]	Iridium Linden:	And that's it, no? We're out of time.
[11:00]	Benjamin Linden:	I think that's a good stopping point
[11:00]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks everyone!
[11:00]	Torley Linden:	OK, sounds good. *resolves*
[11:00]	Oryx Tempel:	I have a quick question while everyone's here
[11:00]	Benjamin Linden:	what's up Oryx
[11:01]	Oryx Tempel:	MISC-602
[11:01]	Oryx Tempel:	:)
[11:01]	Oryx Tempel:	people on the forums have volunteered to help build roads
[11:02]	Oryx Tempel:	we understand that whoever is in charge of building roads is way backed
[11:02]	Oryx Tempel:	up
[11:02]	Iridium Linden:	Building Gov roads?
[11:02]	Benjamin Linden:	interesting
[11:02]	Iridium Linden:	We're not doing that anymore.
[11:02]	Oryx Tempel:	yeah on the protected Linden roads
[11:02]	Daedalus Young:	I also know of roads that are below ground level
[11:02]	Benja Kepler:	ok, gotta get my tea
[11:02]	Oryx Tempel:	the current "roads" are really undrivable
[11:02]	Benja Kepler:	bye
[11:02]	Daedalus Young:	bye
[11:02]	Jesse Linden:	a decaying infrastructure
[11:02]	Oryx Tempel:	bumpy
[11:02]	Jesse Linden:	how timely!
[11:02]	Nock Forager:	bye Benja
[11:03]	Benjamin Linden:	oh hey Jesse
[11:03]	Torley Linden:	Heya Jesse!
[11:03]	Oryx Tempel:	no, not the prim roads, the land roads
[11:03]	Jesse Linden:	Hi Benjamin
[11:03]	Iridium Linden:	Hi Jesse.
[11:03]	Jesse Linden:	Torley
[11:03]	Daedalus Young:	I have done some car trips on the Southern Continent, it's fun really
[11:03]	Iridium Linden:	The Gov roads.
[11:03]	Jesse Linden:	Iridium
[11:03]	Iridium Linden:	Have you been to Jack's office hours?
[11:03]	Benjamin Linden:	I love this idea of an old crumbling highway
[11:03]	Iridium Linden:	Cause he's the land Linden.
[11:03]	Iridium Linden:	Whaz up, Jesse?
[11:03]	Jesse Linden:	yes, very American
[11:03]	Torley Linden:	Thanks all for being with us.
[11:03]	Torley Linden:	:o)
[11:03]	Torley Linden shouts: I see Bridie!
[11:03]	Jesse Linden:	just thought id drop in for a sec
[11:03]	Oryx Tempel:	i usually can never make it to meetings... i work at same PST as you all.. home today
[11:03]	Iridium Linden:	He would be the one to discuss Linden land and roads with.
[11:04]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks for coming everyone!
[11:04]	Torley Linden shouts: I'm using pedals to move my camera, it iz kewl!
[11:04]	Torley Linden:	Ben and I are going to head off to another meeting. Take care all.
[11:04]	Torley Linden:	Aw, glad you could attend, Oryx!
[11:04]	Jesse Linden:	c ya later
[11:04]	Oryx Tempel:	:)
[11:04]	Torley Linden:	Cyas!
[11:04]	Logan Linden:	seeya
[11:04]	Daedalus Young:	byes
[11:04]	Logan Linden:	thanks
[11:04]	Nock Forager:	bye everyone
[11:04]	Iridium Linden:	Bye!
[11:04]	Benjamin Linden:	take care!
[11:04]	Aric Linden:	so long
[11:04]	Miya Watanabe:	bye folks