User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2007 Jun 7

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Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:

[10:07] Very Susanti: good morning Benjamin
[10:07] Benjamin Linden: good morning
[10:07] lufpleh Obstreperous: Hi Benjamin
[10:07] Benjamin Linden: hi Lufpleh!
[10:08] Benjamin Linden: how is everybody doing?
[10:08] Very Susanti: sleepy
[10:08] lufpleh Obstreperous: good, laughing as usual
[10:08] Very Susanti: didn't make it to the coffee shop yet lol
[10:09] Benjamin Linden: what part of the world are you in Very?
[10:09] Very Susanti: Ga
[10:09] Very Susanti: yeah I know lazy morning
[10:09] Benjamin Linden: those are nice though
[10:09] Very Susanti: I was out late haha
[10:09] Very Susanti: yeah when I am working usually in by 7
[10:10] Very Susanti: blah
[10:10] Benjamin Linden: Lufpleh, is this the first time you've attended office hours?
[10:10] lufpleh Obstreperous: i was here last week
[10:10] lufpleh Obstreperous: you were kinda swamped
[10:10] Benjamin Linden: There was a big crowd :-)
[10:10] Benjamin Linden: welcome back!
[10:11] Benjamin Linden: not so many folks today :-)
[10:11] Very Susanti: maybe just comin late
[10:11] lufpleh Obstreperous: i was wondering about the design of the chatterbox on the beta grid
[10:12] Benjamin Linden: yeah, they probably got used to me always being late :-)
[10:12] Benjamin Linden: sure, Lufpleh, what's your question
[10:13] lufpleh Obstreperous: well was wondering if the way it looks now is the way its going to stay or is that just a beta window to test things
[10:13] Benjamin Linden: that's definitely a beta version
[10:13] Benjamin Linden: I've gotten lots of feedback that it's too big
[10:13] Benjamin Linden: for one thing
[10:13] lufpleh Obstreperous: thank goodness for that :)
[10:13] Benjamin Linden: do you have any other feedback on it?
[10:13] Benjamin Linden: hi Arcane
[10:14] Arcane Laval: Heyy
[10:14] lufpleh Obstreperous: mmm, a couple of things
[10:14] lufpleh Obstreperous: obvious one
[10:14] lufpleh Obstreperous: you press a "communicate" button to open a "chatterbox"
[10:14] Benjamin Linden: Ok yes, that will change
[10:14] Benjamin Linden: Chatterbox was intended to be an internal name
[10:15] Benjamin Linden: but it slipped out :-)
[10:15] Very Susanti: some chatterbox slipped it I s'pose
[10:15] lufpleh Obstreperous: when you have the chatterbox open you can actually have to chat boxes where you can type text
[10:15] Benjamin Linden: we sort of like calling it that but it won't translate well
[10:15] Benjamin Linden: lol @ Very
[10:15] lufpleh Obstreperous: *two
[10:16] Benjamin Linden: right, how do you feel about that Lufpleh?
[10:16] Very Susanti: yes I can see now all the corny jokes we will be subjected too for years and years if the name slips out
[10:16] Benjamin Linden: good point Very
[10:16] lufpleh Obstreperous: having two chat boxes, not good, just makes focus more difficult
[10:17] Very Susanti: yes and it will increase the likeyhood of mixing chat
[10:17] Benjamin Linden: do you mean in terms of deciding where to type?
[10:17] Benjamin Linden: what do you mean, Very?
[10:17] lufpleh Obstreperous: yes then add a few IM boxes and easy to get lost
[10:17] Very Susanti: typing into the wrong place
[10:17] Benjamin Linden: so you think you're typing in-world but you're actually typing to someone else in IM?
[10:18] Very Susanti: I have seen a number of very big chat faux pas lately
[10:18] Very Susanti: yeah
[10:18] lufpleh Obstreperous: would be easy done
[10:18] Very Susanti: or the your not really in chat dance
[10:18] Very Susanti: love that one
[10:18] lufpleh Obstreperous: should be one place to type chat txt inworld
[10:18] Very Susanti: especially if you type a lot of e's
[10:18] Benjamin Linden: e's?
[10:18] lufpleh Obstreperous: if you enable the one in chatterbox, disable the main chat box on bottom of screen
[10:18] Very Susanti: makes you jump
[10:19] Very Susanti: haha
[10:19] Benjamin Linden: oh you mean the avatar movement keys
[10:19] Very Susanti: yes
[10:19] Very Susanti: I am surprised they are active while you can still see a chat line
[10:19] Benjamin Linden: the thinking behind having it in the chatterbox is that you could close the chat bar at the bottom if you wanted to
[10:20] Very Susanti: what would make it most convenient if those chat boxes could be in seperate widnows
[10:20] Benjamin Linden: there will be an options menu in the "Near Me" tab of the chatterbox, maybe we could add an option to hide/show the chat input field
[10:20] lufpleh Obstreperous: mm, i just found it confusing have x2 places where you cna do the same thing
[10:20] Benjamin Linden: hi Ayaki
[10:20] Very Susanti: the way most IM profgrams work
[10:20] Very Susanti: programs
[10:20] Ayaki Oyen: hi
[10:20] Benjamin Linden: you can tear out the windows, Very
[10:20] Very Susanti: Hi Ayaki
[10:21] Very Susanti: out of the main window?
[10:21] Benjamin Linden: oh you mean out of the main SL window?
[10:21] Ayaki Oyen: Hello !
[10:21] Very Susanti: yes
[10:21] Benjamin Linden: you can tear it out of the chatterbox but not the main window
[10:21] Benjamin Linden: there are technical reasons why you can't have windows floating outside the main SL window
[10:21] Very Susanti: if you tear out too many windows in the sl window you can't see anything
[10:21] Benjamin Linden: we would like to do that eventually
[10:22] Very Susanti: of course I have written GUI applications before
[10:22] lufpleh Obstreperous: sure it will be tidied up as you go, but the area with the volume slider is huge
[10:22] Benjamin Linden: to the right of the speakers list?
[10:22] lufpleh Obstreperous: yes
[10:22] Benjamin Linden: yes, we need to work on the layout of the chatterbox some more
[10:23] Benjamin Linden: also, there will be an ability to hide/show that upper panel
[10:23] lufpleh Obstreperous: quite a lot i think
[10:23] Benjamin Linden: so you can just see chat history
[10:23] Very Susanti: there is another way to approach this too, making the field of view change like being able to set a camera focal length
[10:23] Very Susanti: but yes cluttering up the ui is an issue
[10:24] Benjamin Linden: I'm not sure what you mean about focal length, Very
[10:24] Very Susanti: field of view angle then
[10:25] lufpleh Obstreperous: do you mean like UI setting in prefreances, where u can scale
[10:26] Very Susanti: zoomin in and out by moving your camera doesn't work well in a place with lots of obstacles
[10:26] Benjamin Linden: is this a separate issue from the chatterbox UI?
[10:26] Benjamin Linden: or is it related somehow?
[10:26] Very Susanti: that just sets the text size right?
[10:26] Benjamin Linden: hello Anac
[10:27] Very Susanti: well it is a general issue about dealing with UI realestate issues
[10:27] Very Susanti: another tool that could alleviate the one window issue
[10:27] Very Susanti: and of course it would be a great tool too, especially for building or working in a small space
[10:28] Benjamin Linden: is it similar to the UI scale setting in preferences, as lufpleh brought up?
[10:28] Benjamin Linden: does anyone here use that setting?
[10:28] Very Susanti: um maybe if you tell me where
[10:29] lufpleh Obstreperous: yes, set at .875
[10:29] Very Susanti: there are a bunch of settings I don't understand
[10:29] Benjamin Linden: hi Phli :-)
[10:29] Phli Foxchase: Hello :)
[10:29] Very Susanti: I see the UI size
[10:29] Benjamin Linden: that's completely understandable, Very. we need to clean up preferences
[10:29] Very Susanti: I always set that to the min
[10:30] Very Susanti: ohh a bunny
[10:30] lufpleh Obstreperous: shrinks the buttons and enables me to reduce the size of inventory window just that little bit more, clearing rest of screen :)
[10:30] Very Susanti: yes I use that
[10:30] Very Susanti: but the angle of view would affect the 3d redering
[10:30] Benjamin Linden: right, that makes sense
[10:30] Benjamin Linden: how would that help you Very
[10:30] Very Susanti: I don't think you guys have that
[10:31] Benjamin Linden: Phli, how do you accomplish that halo effect around your av?
[10:31] Very Susanti: do you take pictures with a camera?
[10:31] Very Susanti: ever use a wide angle lens
[10:31] Phli Foxchase: I don't know, I just bought it ;)
[10:31] Benjamin Linden: no I've never used a wide-angle lens
[10:31] Very Susanti: to work in a small space
[10:31] Benjamin Linden: haha ok, Phli
[10:31] Very Susanti: well how about a zoom lens
[10:31] Benjamin Linden: oh like when people take pictures for real estate websites
[10:31] Benjamin Linden: with a fish eye lens?
[10:31] Very Susanti: yes
[10:31] Benjamin Linden: I see
[10:32] Very Susanti: yes that is a good example
[10:32] Benjamin Linden: hi Zip
[10:32] Zip Furse: Hello
[10:32] Phli Foxchase: I have a question : when do you think to release a new UI ?
[10:34] Benjamin Linden: Phli, what do you mean by new UI?
[10:34] Phli Foxchase: I'm french and the UI is not easy to use
[10:35] Benjamin Linden: because of the language?
[10:35] Phli Foxchase: lot of words are not translate
[10:35] Benjamin Linden: ah yes, this is definitely a problem
[10:35] Very Susanti: oh I know what would be nice a UI health meter so I know if I am still connected or not. So I don't have to figit to know if I am logged out when things get quiet.
[10:36] lufpleh Obstreperous: i use the mini map for that
[10:36] Very Susanti: how does that work?
[10:36] Benjamin Linden: we are working with some companies to help us with our translations
[10:36] Phli Foxchase: ok
[10:36] Benjamin Linden: so hopefully in the near future that will get better
[10:36] Very Susanti: I have tried cntl-shift-1 too
[10:36] lufpleh Obstreperous: well if green dots stop moving or the colour changes, your out
[10:36] Phli Foxchase: but can the fench community give some help somewhere ?
[10:37] Benjamin Linden: the mini-map sometimes turns red when you get disconnected
[10:37] Zip Furse: as in like making entries auto translated?
[10:37] Benjamin Linden: but yes, it would be nice if there was better feedback for that
[10:37] Very Susanti: lol @ sometimes
[10:37] Benjamin Linden: lol, I don't really know why it's only sometimes
[10:37] Very Susanti: works by coincidense
[10:37] lufpleh Obstreperous: normal does change if sim or neighbouring sims go down
[10:38] lufpleh Obstreperous: I find it pretty reliable
[10:38] Very Susanti: I will keep an eye on it
[10:38] Very Susanti: I usually try to hide as many things as possible
[10:39] Very Susanti: even with a 24" widescreen sometimes I still feel cramped in my window
[10:40] Benjamin Linden: I agree, Very, we don't do a very good job of helping the user manage the interface
[10:40] Benjamin Linden: we have some long-term goals to improve that
[10:40] Very Susanti: well I wouldn't say that I think the interface is not bad
[10:40] Benjamin Linden: docking UI and things like that
[10:40] Very Susanti: but they are not as well understood as 2D ones
[10:41] Very Susanti: I mean this is a new space
[10:41] Benjamin Linden: that's true, there are some tough problems to solve
[10:41] Benjamin Linden: that's why I like talking to you guys to get your help and feedback :-)
[10:41] Very Susanti: other 3D tools are different cause you are not present in those spaces
[10:41] Benjamin Linden: right
[10:41] Very Susanti: but multiple widows in my opinion is a biggie
[10:42] Benjamin Linden: I had someone comment to me recently, why does the avatar need to be there when you're building
[10:42] Benjamin Linden: and I said, well because YOU are there so your avatar has to be there
[10:42] Very Susanti: and camera field of view or call it zoom angle as opposed to zoom position
[10:42] Very Susanti: it should be a primary camera tool
[10:42] lufpleh Obstreperous: if space is an issue it seems strange to expand/stretch the buttons on the bottom of the window as you have on the beta
[10:43] Micha DeCuir: ty love
[10:43] Very Susanti: also moving sideways would be nice too
[10:43] Benjamin Linden: what do you mean, Lufpleh?
[10:43] Very Susanti: well I have multiple screens too
[10:43] Benjamin Linden: they may appear expanded because there are fewer of them
[10:43] Jelena DeVinna: hello all
[10:43] Benjamin Linden: hi Jelena!
[10:43] Phli Foxchase: Hello !
[10:43] Micha DeCuir: yep, hi all
[10:43] Benjamin Linden: hi Jelly
[10:43] Benjamin Linden: and Khamon
[10:44] Benjamin Linden: I didn't see you guys show up
[10:44] Khamon Fate: I just showed up
[10:44] lufpleh Obstreperous: the number off buttons on the beta has been reduced, IM and FRIENDS combined to make COMMUNICATE, the other buttons have been stretch to fill the gap
[10:44] Jelena DeVinna: happens some time lol
[10:45] Benjamin Linden: that's right, Lufpleh, we weren't at a point where we could completely redesign the main toolbar
[10:45] Benjamin Linden: currently it's designed to expand to fill the space at the bottom but that's not a great use of space, we realize
[10:45] RockerNyufi Babii: Hey
[10:45] lufpleh Obstreperous: :)
[10:45] RockerNyufi Babii: whats up? P:
[10:45] Benjamin Linden: especially as monitors get bigger
[10:46] Very Susanti: I suppose there are two broad catagories of areas of improvement 1) the 3D window itself and 2) the UI components
[10:46] RockerNyufi Babii: hm
[10:46] RockerNyufi Babii: x)
[10:46] Benjamin Linden: right, Very
[10:46] Benjamin Linden: I've spent more time thinking about the UI componenets
[10:46] Benjamin Linden: components
[10:46] Very Susanti: the UI components compete for screen space with the 3D widows
[10:46] Benjamin Linden: but we definitely need to spend some time thinking about the 3d aspects as well
[10:46] Jelena DeVinna: wel don't know if we are right here but i have a prop with prims that i did delete but seem to be still there (invisible) and now way to select them
[10:46] Benjamin Linden: hi Rocker
[10:47] Very Susanti: but improving in either area will alleviate some of the impact to the other area
[10:47] Benjamin Linden: Hi Jelena, have you filed a support request for your problem?
[10:47] Benjamin Linden: that's true Susan and ideally we'd think about the two problems together
[10:47] Jelena DeVinna: yes is did but get no support ticket back to
[10:47] Very Susanti: Susan?
[10:48] Benjamin Linden: hey bub
[10:48] Bub Linden: What's shakin, B-dawg?
[10:48] Bub Linden: It's ok everyone, daddy is here now.
[10:48] Benjamin Linden: chillin with the residents :-)
[10:48] Benjamin Linden: everybody, this is Bub Linden
[10:48] Bub Linden: Wrd. Hey gang.
[10:48] Jelena DeVinna smiles
[10:48] Micha DeCuir: Hi bub
[10:48] lufpleh Obstreperous: Hi Bub
[10:48] Bub Linden: 'Ello :)
[10:49] Very Susanti: Hiya Bub
[10:49] Jelena DeVinna: hi bub
[10:49] Benjamin Linden: we were just discussing how there are two problem areas with our UI: the 3d interaction part and the 2d UI components
[10:49] Phli Foxchase: this issue (deleting items reùmaining in world) is on JIRA : https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-242
[10:49] Benjamin Linden: and how it's important to solve problems thinking about both of them together
[10:49] Benjamin Linden: thanks for the Jira link Phli
[10:49] Jelena DeVinna: hehe ty
[10:49] Benjamin Linden: are you an open source developer Phli?
[10:50] Phli Foxchase: no :)
[10:50] Bub Linden: Word, thanks Phli.
[10:50] Bub Linden: Ahh I see.
[10:50] Bub Linden: I think this has happened to me a few times.
[10:50] Bub Linden: :)
[10:51] Phli Foxchase: Iwould love to see a new filter in the inventory tools: "worn"
[10:51] Benjamin Linden: that's a great idea Phli
[10:51] Bub Linden: Great avatar as well, Phli.
[10:51] Phli Foxchase: thank's =)
[10:51] lufpleh Obstreperous: i just type "worn" in text field
[10:52] Phli Foxchase: yes but new residents don't know that
[10:52] Arcane Laval: Sorry was on the phone, hi Bub. lol
[10:52] Phli Foxchase: a filter could be easy
[10:52] Bub Linden: Hello, Arcane.
[10:52] Bub Linden: Phli has a point.
[10:52] Arcane Laval: I like that idea
[10:52] lufpleh Obstreperous: lo, new residents dont know about filter :)
[10:52] Benjamin Linden: there's so much we can do with Inventory
[10:53] Benjamin Linden: Phli, have you seen the inventory design discussion on the public wiki?
[10:53] Very Susanti: yeah inventory is a hot bed I think
[10:53] Bub Linden: Well said :)
[10:53] Benjamin Linden: especially when people have 50000+ inventory items!
[10:54] Benjamin Linden: let me get that link so people can look at it, hang on
[10:54] Phli Foxchase: no sorry, this not easy cause I 've a bad english :)
[10:54] Arcane Laval: Yeah and most have organising issues lol
[10:54] lufpleh Obstreperous: i would hate to clear chache with 50k items
[10:54] Very Susanti: lol
[10:55] Very Susanti: I might be close to something like that with all my textures and stuff
[10:55] Benjamin Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Inventory_UI_Design
[10:55] Phli Foxchase: ok
[10:55] Benjamin Linden: You're english is better than many Americans I know, Phli :-)
[10:56] Benjamin Linden: you all should feel free to hop in there and add your own comments to the wiki
[10:56] Jelena DeVinna: oke we are away ty and hope to cu all again :)
[10:56] Phli Foxchase: ok
[10:56] Micha DeCuir: bye to all and have a nice day
[10:56] Benjamin Linden: thanks for coming, Jelena and Micha!
[10:56] Phli Foxchase: bye :)
[10:57] Bub Linden: Nice seeing you all :)
[10:57] Arcane Laval: Bye!
[10:57] Bub Linden: Thanks for letting me crash, Benjamin.
[10:57] Benjamin Linden: sure thing Bub, thanks for stopping by
[10:58] Benjamin Linden: we're just about out of time, did anyone else have anything they wanted to discuss?
[10:58] Phli Foxchase: By the way, do you have Linden Bears ?
[10:58] Phli Foxchase: :)
[10:58] Benjamin Linden: or ideas to talk about next week?
[10:58] Phli Foxchase: thank you
[10:59] Phli Foxchase: could you send one to my friend Belzebut Ulysses ?
[10:59] Arcane Laval: Thanks!
[10:59] Phli Foxchase: it would be so nice
[10:59] Very Susanti: thanks
[10:59] Benjamin Linden: here's another one Phil, you can give it to your firend
[10:59] Ayaki Oyen: thanks!
[10:59] Phli Foxchase: thank you very much
[10:59] lufpleh Obstreperous: thx for your time Benjamin
[10:59] Benjamin Linden: thanks for coming everyone, have a great weekend and we'll see you next week!
[11:00] Very Susanti: yeah thank you for your time
[11:00] Arcane Laval: Bye bye!
[11:00] Phli Foxchase: see you next week !