User:Benjamin Linden/Office Hours/2007 Sep 18

Transcript of Benjamin Linden's office hours:

[10:07]	Wyn Galbraith:	Greetings Benjamin.
[10:07]	Benjamin Linden:	Good morning everyone
[10:07]	Daedalus Young:	hi Benjamin
[10:07]	Squirrel Wood:	Holla ben
[10:07]	There is no suitable surface to sit on, try another spot.
[10:07]	Tao Takashi:	Good evening, Benjamin :)
[10:07]	Squirrel Wood:	I suppose you got me email today ?
[10:07]	Benjamin Linden:	Sorry we're all running a bit late this morning
[10:07]	Tao Takashi is still waiting for a better german translation, btw ;_)
[10:08]	Benjamin Linden:	hey Tao, our team's been slaving away on the german translation for the past couple weeks!
[10:08]	Tao Takashi:	at least the right texts should be in the right spots
[10:08]	Savannah Glimmer:	lol sorry Ben
[10:08]	Squirrel Wood:	german translations... you should have told me! I could have helped with that :p
[10:09]	Tao Takashi:	there have been many people who wanted to help with that
[10:09]	Tao Takashi:	a whole group on each slinfo.de and slinside.de
[10:10]	Benjamin Linden:	haha well I'm sure there will be some strings you could still help with
[10:10]	Tao Takashi:	it just was a question of how
[10:10]	Tao Takashi:	not that I will use german versions anyway ;-)
[10:10]	Benjamin Linden:	I think we still need to work on the infrastructure for taking i18n fixes from folks
[10:10]	Tao Takashi:	but got confused again when it set itself to standard language
[10:10]	Saijanai Kuhn:	hey all
[10:10]	Benjamin Linden:	hi Sai
[10:10]	Benjamin Linden:	ok let's get started
[10:10]	Daedalus Young:	hi
[10:10]	Tao Takashi:	as e.g. when receiving an object the text for accepting it comes
[10:10]	Saijanai Kuhn:	is there an agenda today?
[10:10]	Squirrel Wood:	there is
[10:11]	Daedalus Young:	I think we can just continue the agenda
[10:11]	Benjamin Linden:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/UI_Agenda
[10:11]	Saijanai Kuhn:	BTW, major exploit for SL was just announced... http://www.gnucitizen.org/blog/ie-pwns-secondlife
[10:11]	Tao Takashi:	it's always great to spread such news ;-)
[10:11]	Benjamin Linden:	it doesn't look like anyone moved last week's stuff over to the archive so I'll do that later
[10:11]	Squirrel Wood:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-632 - vote, vote, vote ^^
[10:11]	Saijanai Kuhn:	do you hide it so less people USE the exploit, or do you announce it so more AVOID the exploit?
[10:12]	Tao Takashi:	should be reported via the exploit category IMHO
[10:12]	Benjamin Linden:	haha, the classic trade-off Sai
[10:12]	Saijanai Kuhn:	I'm watching even more carefully for phishing now
[10:12]	Tao Takashi:	for most people this article is too technical anyway so it won't help them in avoiding
[10:13]	Daedalus Young:	people should just stop using IE anyway
[10:13]	Saijanai Kuhn:	though I have no idea if MacOS X safari is vulnerable
[10:13]	Tao Takashi:	but anyway, go on with the agenda :)
[10:14]	Benjamin Linden:	I was just reviewing the bug Squirrel sent
[10:14]	Benjamin Linden:	since it doesn't directly relate to user interface I don't think we should discuss it here
[10:14]	Tao Takashi:	I should put some requests into JIRA
[10:14]	Squirrel Wood:	that account theft exploit already made it to one of the major german IT news sites
[10:15]	Benjamin Linden:	oh woops sorry squirrel
[10:15]	Squirrel Wood:	and according to Soft Linden the dev team may already be on it
[10:15]	Benjamin Linden:	I got confused, I was looking at VWR-418
[10:15]	Benjamin Linden:	which is the patch listed in the agenda
[10:15]	Benjamin Linden:	just a note on process, folks
[10:15]	Squirrel Wood:	that one's already imported
[10:16]	Benjamin Linden:	it would be super-helpful if you guys could help me prepare the agenda ahead of time
[10:16]	Benjamin Linden:	by running the jira filter and importing the latest bugs and patches onto this page
[10:16]	Benjamin Linden:	I see little edits here and there, like this one "sneaking onto the UI agenda"
[10:16]	Benjamin Linden:	you don't have to sneak -- we *want* you to work on the agenda actively
[10:17]	Benjamin Linden:	help set what we discuss
[10:17]	Benjamin Linden:	does that make sense?
[10:17]	JayR Cela:	yep
[10:17]	Saijanai Kuhn:	could you give the agenda URL? FOrgot to set in in my bookmarks
[10:17]	Benjamin Linden:	there are instructions on how to prepare the agenda here
[10:17]	Benjamin Linden:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage
[10:18]	Benjamin Linden:	Sai, this is the UI agenda
[10:18]	Benjamin Linden:	http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/UI_Agenda
[10:18]	Daedalus Young:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Bug_triage/UI_Agenda
[10:18]	Saijanai Kuhn:	thanks and thanks
[10:19]	Benjamin Linden:	so for this "sneaking in" one, VWR-1678, I'm going to import it and assign it internally since this work is being done already
[10:19]	Tao Takashi:	that are the best bugs :)
[10:20]	Benjamin Linden:	ok we might move a little slower today since I dont' have any of my regular helpers
[10:20]	Benjamin Linden:	so bear with me
[10:20]	JayR Cela:	ok
[10:20]	Daedalus Young:	no prob
[10:20]	Daedalus Young:	Iridium is sometimes way too fast anyway :P
[10:20]	Benjamin Linden:	lol yeah she's pretty efficient
[10:20]	Torley Tester:	Heya everyone!
[10:20]	Squirrel Wood:	jira + fast = impossible :p
[10:20]	Torley Tester:	Sorry I'm late, had an emergency.
[10:20]	Daedalus Young:	hi Torley
[10:20]	Savannah Glimmer:	Hi Torley
[10:21]	Squirrel Wood:	Hullo Torley!
[10:21]	Daedalus Young:	nothing serious I hope?
[10:21]	Torley Tester:	Unfortunately yes, but things will be OK.
[10:21]	Benjamin Linden:	hey Torley, glad you made it
[10:21]	Torley Tester:	Thanks!
[10:21]	Benjamin Linden:	we were just getting started
[10:21]	Squirrel Wood:	ah... the exploit mayhaps ?
[10:21]	Torley Tester:	Oh great.
[10:21]	Benjamin Linden:	the first item on the agenda is a dupe of work that's happening internally
[10:21]	Torley Tester:	Oh, it was a personal, non-work emergency.
[10:21]	Wyn Galbraith has been trying to sit on Torley!
[10:21]	Benjamin Linden:	we had some process discussion about the agenda, etc.
[10:21]	Torley Tester:	LOLZ Wyn.
[10:22]	Wyn Galbraith:	Snuck in while I was recovering from a crash.
[10:22]	Tao Takashi:	Hey Torley
[10:22]	Tao Takashi:	give us Windlight! ;-)
[10:22]	Torley Tester:	I'm sorry, did I steal your seat Wyn?
[10:22]	Torley Tester:	I can move to sit on the table.
[10:22]	Benjamin Linden:	hey torley, I imported VWR-1678, can you resolve the pjira as a dupe and say it's fixed internally
[10:22]	Wyn Galbraith:	No, stay there. I was teasing.
[10:22]	Torley Tester:	Tao: I sure wanna, in a few weeks I hope... =) We're still working so hard on it.
[10:23]	Tao Takashi:	let the open source people work on it ;_)
[10:23]	Torley Tester:	Sure Benjamin.
[10:23]	Torley Tester:	*gets on it*
[10:24]	Benjamin Linden:	ok so VWR-418 has already been imported
[10:24]	Benjamin Linden:	lots of activity on that one
[10:25]	Torley Tester:	Benjamin, to clarify, VWR-1678 is a dupe of an existing internal issue that already was fixed?
[10:25]	Torley Tester:	VWR-1678/SL-55429 that is.
[10:25]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, it's being done as part of the next release of voice
[10:25]	Torley Tester:	Ahhh OK. Good to know.
[10:26]	Benjamin Linden:	ok so our next one is
[10:26]	Benjamin Linden:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-797
[10:27]	Wyn Galbraith:	Fugly?
[10:27]	Daedalus Young:	Freaking Ugly, I think
[10:27]	Benjamin Linden:	I think this is a video card issue
[10:27]	Squirrel Wood:	dual monitor setup.....
[10:27]	Wyn Galbraith:	Ah, always good to get a new word a day.
[10:28]	Squirrel Wood:	single monitor setup should work flawlessly
[10:28]	JayR Cela:	benjamin I would agree on a vid card issue / not a SL issue
[10:28]	Daedalus Young:	although there have been more issues with dual monitors
[10:28]	Daedalus Young:	black avs and so
[10:28]	Torley Tester:	OK, so *looks for the fugly textures in the screenshot*
[10:29]	Benjamin Linden:	Torley, do you know how we handle bugs like this? I believe we do investigate specific driver issues
[10:29]	Daedalus Young:	it's the "Chat" button
[10:29]	Wyn Galbraith:	I didn't see any.
[10:29]	Squirrel Wood:	music / movies / chat
[10:29]	Torley Tester:	Benjamin: I think it's a good idea to first get what driver version they're using.
[10:29]	Squirrel Wood:	and gestures... bottom right
[10:29]	Benjamin Linden:	should we close for more info?
[10:29]	Torley Tester:	Yes, I suggest so.
[10:29]	Daedalus Young:	the poster couldve cropped that out, it are some of the UI textures
[10:29]	Torley Tester:	Strange that it has 0 votes too.
[10:29]	Benjamin Linden:	ok that sounds good
[10:30]	Torley Tester:	Looks like Lex has it as well; it would be healthy to have this issue more substantiated by others with a specific driver version,
[10:30]	Torley Tester:	so we're able to isolate the cause more effectively.
[10:30]	Daedalus Young:	yes, that would indicate it's a incident
[10:30]	Wyn Galbraith:	OH there it is.
[10:30]	Wyn Galbraith:	That looks like a refresh issue doesn't it?
[10:30]	Wyn Galbraith:	I get that effect if I close my laptop with SL up.
[10:30]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, I think so Wyn, something to do with the video card or driver
[10:31]	Benjamin Linden:	everybody ready to move on?
[10:31]	Wyn Galbraith:	When I reopen the cover the whole SL window is like that.
[10:31]	Squirrel Wood:	video memory not properly detected mayhaps ?
[10:31]	Benjamin Linden:	VWR-1125 is next
[10:31]	Daedalus Young:	or vmem "fugged" up
[10:31]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm using the handy URLer on the floor there
[10:31]	Daedalus Young:	1125 I could not repro with 1.18
[10:31]	Daedalus Young:	on Mac OS X
[10:32]	Torley Tester:	I've never been able to repro this one either.
[10:33]	Torley Tester:	Looks like several have experienced it, tho.
[10:33]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm not sure I understand it
[10:33]	Squirrel Wood:	may happen when you run windowed mode but not maximized
[10:33]	Daedalus Young:	I'm always windowed
[10:33]	Torley Tester:	I'd be tempted to mark this as "Small" priority because the likelihood of it happening is so miniscule.
[10:34]	Wyn Galbraith:	I just tried it. Worked as expected.
[10:34]	Torley Tester:	Generally, only advanced users would Alt-Tab out of SL when in Mouselook.
[10:34]	Squirrel Wood:	SL and fullscreen don't like each other on my system
[10:34]	Daedalus Young:	and then they would alt-tab back in too
[10:34]	Tao Takashi:	it did happen for me
[10:35]	Torley Tester:	Tao, what kind of system are you on?
[10:35]	Tao Takashi:	mouselook, alt-tab to other window, moved it away and clickt the title bar
[10:35]	Tao Takashi:	windows xp
[10:35]	Benjamin Linden:	ok I saw the problem too
[10:35]	Squirrel Wood:	Reproduced it
[10:35]	Tao Takashi:	not sure it's important though ;-)
[10:35]	Benjamin Linden:	it repositions the window to the title bar
[10:35]	Torley Tester:	AHA!
[10:35]	Tao Takashi:	just don't click the title bar ;-)
[10:35]	Torley Tester:	I see it, I managed to repro it too.
[10:35]	Squirrel Wood:	happens when SL does run as a window but NOT maximized
[10:35]	Daedalus Young:	I still can't repro it on Mac OS X
[10:35]	Zha Ewry:	Here too
[10:36]	Torley Tester:	Yeah Squirrel, thanks, I missed the "Maximized" part before.
[10:36]	Tao Takashi:	seems to be a windows issue then
[10:36]	Zha Ewry:	(XP)
[10:36]	Torley Tester:	I suggest we import it as "Small".
[10:36]	Wyn Galbraith:	I just got it too.
[10:36]	Benjamin Linden:	agreed
[10:36]	Torley Tester:	It's clearly reproducible on Windows, but no one on Mac is having it eh?
[10:36]	Wyn Galbraith:	XP
[10:36]	Daedalus Young:	I'm not reproing, I don't know Sai?
[10:37]	Benjamin Linden:	torley you can note that I repro'd this
[10:37]	Benjamin Linden:	ok next up is VWR-1123
[10:37]	Torley Tester:	Sure will. NEXT!
[10:38]	Benjamin Linden:	whoa this one is unusual
[10:38]	Savannah Glimmer:	v. 1.17
[10:38]	Daedalus Young:	I also could never repro 1123
[10:38]	Daedalus Young:	esp not just now in the latest RC
[10:38]	Benjamin Linden:	I think we need to get more info on this
[10:38]	Saijanai Kuhn:	I'm not sure what I should try to reproduce. I still get garbage graphics in teh preferences window when I switch to full screen
[10:38]	Benjamin Linden:	like which OS they're running
[10:38]	Daedalus Young:	yes, agreed
[10:38]	Benjamin Linden:	I've never seen this myself
[10:39]	Torley Tester:	I haven't seen this yet.
[10:39]	Squirrel Wood:	doesn't happen to me
[10:39]	Benjamin Linden:	let's get more info on this one
[10:39]	Daedalus Young:	could be Linux specific
[10:39]	Torley Tester:	Good idea...
[10:39]	Squirrel Wood:	then again... I think QA may have caught it
[10:39]	Torley Tester:	*marks it*
[10:39]	Benjamin Linden:	ok next is VWR-1274
[10:40]	Tao Takashi:	next time I will have 3 computers running with all OSes trying to reproduce ;-)
[10:40]	Torley Tester:	Haha Tao, you devilish multitasker you!
[10:40]	Daedalus Young:	you'd need more: XP, Vista...
[10:40]	Saijanai Kuhn:	and checkboxes get confused once I sitch to full screen. OTher than those long-running errors, what should I have been looking for?
[10:40]	Benjamin Linden:	I have to step out for a moment, brb
[10:41]	Benjamin Linden:	this bug is rather lengthy
[10:41]	Torley Tester:	Yikes, what a long repro!
[10:41]	Baba Yamamoto:	what are we doing?
[10:41]	Torley Tester:	Baba, LTNS.
[10:41]	JayR Cela:	Sorry folks I am being called away / bye~byee :_)
[10:41]	Torley Tester:	We're having a bug triage!
[10:41]	Baba Yamamoto:	<3
[10:41]	Daedalus Young:	ok JayR
[10:41]	Torley Tester:	UI bugs specifically, hosted by Benjamin Linden!
[10:41]	Daedalus Young:	bye
[10:41]	Baba Yamamoto:	yay bugs
[10:42]	Baba Yamamoto:	i mean *GRRR*
[10:42]	Torley Tester:	Hehe.
[10:42]	Squirrel Wood:	don't eat the bugs.
[10:42]	Torley Tester:	So how can we simplify this bug -- it sounds like you have a clearer understanding of it, Daedalus?
[10:42]	Squirrel Wood:	they taste nasry.
[10:42]	Squirrel Wood:	nasty even
[10:42]	Daedalus Young:	well, on my machine, "Home" doesn't do anything in the chatbar, while "End" transports the cursor to the end of thetext input
[10:42]	Squirrel Wood:	eqeqeqeqweeewrwerwrwerwerwe
[10:43]	Squirrel Wood:	Observe:
[10:43]	Torley Tester:	Same here, Daedalus.
[10:43]	Squirrel Wood:	bottom chat bar does not recognize home key.
[10:43]	Squirrel Wood:	chat history chat bar does
[10:43]	Baba Yamamoto:	Oh? I am seeing Home and End working.
[10:43]	Torley Tester:	I have not known this bug to be a practical problem in everyday usage, has anyone here?
[10:43]	Baba Yamamoto:	oh but not in the bottom chat bar
[10:43]	Squirrel Wood:	not a major one
[10:43]	Baba Yamamoto:	Home is mapped to fly
[10:44]	Torley Tester:	I appreciate the time Celierra put into reporting it, but it seems like it doesn't impede most people's regular usage.
[10:44]	Saijanai Kuhn:	Having attempted to test whatever bug you guys wanted me to, I find my traditional problems on the Mac have popped up whenever I go "full screen" I must relog. See you in a sec
[10:44]	Daedalus Young:	yes, of course, Home doesn't work when it's meant to start you flying
[10:44]	Squirrel Wood:	well, it works NOT in the bottom chat bar but DOES work in the chat history one ?
[10:45]	Baba Yamamoto:	It does work in my chat history bar
[10:45]	Torley Tester remembers focus model changes that altered behavior of keys in the chatbar over time...
[10:45]	Daedalus Young:	yes, works in my chat history too
[10:45]	Squirrel Wood:	inconsistent behavior ^^
[10:45]	Benjamin Linden:	ok I'm back
[10:45]	Jansen Miles:	Yep. The regular chat bar is screwied.
[10:45]	Torley Tester:	WB Ben.
[10:45]	Squirrel Wood:	wb
[10:45]	Daedalus Young:	because the Home key is already reserved for something else
[10:45]	Benjamin Linden:	did you guys figure this one out :-)
[10:46]	Baba Yamamoto:	the bottom chat bar is meant to be non intrusive to your experience where as chat history is focused on text input
[10:46]	Baba Yamamoto:	I see them serving different purposes
[10:46]	Torley Tester:	Well, I wonder if this bug is a problem at other common resolutions, like 1024x768.
[10:46]	Torley Tester:	Or 1280x1024.
[10:46]	Squirrel Wood:	essentially they serve the same purpose ^^
[10:47]	Daedalus Young:	ok, unchecking "Arrow keys always move avatar" in preferences, Home works in the bottom chatbar too
[10:47]	Baba Yamamoto:	Squirrel, only not.. Right now my chat history is up and I'm chatting full screen.. I'm focused on text input
[10:47]	Torley Tester:	This bug seems small and edge-casey for me because I see no clear feelings that this is a disruptive problem.
[10:47]	Benjamin Linden:	Torley, can you give me a one sentence overview?
[10:47]	Benjamin Linden:	I'm trying to get caught up
[10:47]	Baba Yamamoto:	if I were doing somethign more active in SL I might not use chat history becaus I want to perform other opperations
[10:47]	Squirrel Wood:	yep... low priority
[10:47]	Daedalus Young:	and I think the original issue is fixed at least in the RC
[10:47]	Squirrel Wood:	definitely
[10:47]	Baba Yamamoto:	;0
[10:48]	Torley Tester:	Ben, I don't understand all the minutae myself, I'm wondering how it can be simplified.
[10:48]	Benjamin Linden:	ok, should we import it or let it marinate?
[10:48]	Benjamin Linden:	that is an insanely long repro
[10:48]	Torley Tester:	I'd suggest importing as small.
[10:48]	Torley Tester:	And asking for simplification.
[10:48]	Torley Tester:	Which I can do. :)
[10:48]	Daedalus Young:	wb Sai
[10:48]	Squirrel Wood:	yep. import and fix when its convenient ^^
[10:48]	Benjamin Linden:	ok I'll mark it imported in the wiki
[10:48]	Torley Tester:	K. *imports*
[10:49]	Benjamin Linden:	next is VWR-1417
[10:49]	Benjamin Linden:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/vwr-1417
[10:49]	Daedalus Young:	hmm, can't test, as the lists are empty here anyway :P
[10:50]	Benjamin Linden:	I can try banning someone :-)
[10:50]	Squirrel Wood:	unless you have the land/parcel selected it will "lose" focus.
[10:50]	Torley Tester:	HAHA.
[10:50]	Benjamin Linden:	ok I banned Brent Linden :-)
[10:50]	Squirrel Wood:	it has always been that was as far as I can remember
[10:50]	Torley Tester:	I remember trying to repro this earlier but could not.
[10:50]	Baba Yamamoto:	I hate that guy ;0
[10:50]	Baba Yamamoto:	he's so.. blonde!
[10:50]	Benjamin Linden:	but it stays in the list
[10:51]	Benjamin Linden:	it's not repr--ing for me
[10:51]	Daedalus Young:	it is for me
[10:51]	Squirrel Wood:	right-click the ground => about land. then left-click. stays focused.
[10:51]	Daedalus Young:	have the window open, then click on the ground, the list is empty
[10:51]	Torley Tester tries those exact repro steps.
[10:51]	Benjamin Linden:	oh I see
[10:51]	Daedalus Young:	until you right-click About Land
[10:51]	Benjamin Linden:	I was clicking onto another window
[10:51]	Baba Yamamoto:	I can repro it
[10:51]	Benjamin Linden:	yes that's very odd
[10:51]	Squirrel Wood:	click the sim name at the top, dialog shows. click anywhere... focus lost
[10:51]	Baba Yamamoto:	wait maybe not
[10:51]	Daedalus Young:	it's because you select the land when you open the land window
[10:52]	Torley Tester:	I can't repro this.
[10:52]	Daedalus Young:	and deselect if you click the prim floor
[10:52]	Benjamin Linden:	it's not specific to the ban list
[10:52]	Squirrel Wood:	When the land is actually selected you do not lose focus. If it is not, you do.
[10:52]	Benjamin Linden:	it's everything in the window (except the parcel name)
[10:53]	Daedalus Young:	I notice
[10:53]	Benjamin Linden:	I agree this is confusing
[10:53]	Squirrel Wood:	has always been that way ^^
[10:53]	Benjamin Linden:	I think we should import it and at least have someone explain why it works this way
[10:53]	Torley Tester:	Hmmm... what is the repro here?
[10:53]	Torley Tester:	I tried those repro steps and I can still see info inside About Land.
[10:54]	Torley Tester:	Sec...
[10:54]	Torley Tester:	Oh yeah, I see what Ben's saying.
[10:54]	Torley Tester:	I'm familiar with that behavior.
[10:54]	Squirrel Wood:	open the about land window by clicking on the land/sim name at the top of the window. then click anywhere on the screen where there is no window
[10:54]	Torley Tester:	Got it, thanks Squirrel.
[10:54]	Torley Tester:	I see that too.
[10:54]	Torley Tester:	*imports*
[10:54]	Torley Tester:	Definitely confusing to me too, doesn't seem to be a good reason to make that info disappear just because the window is out of focus.
[10:55]	Baba Yamamoto:	Heh, has anyone brought up the group window asking you to save changes when you view the roles /user list even if you make no changes or don't ahve perms? <_< i'm searching jira for that now
[10:55]	Benjamin Linden:	ok cool, let's move on then
[10:55]	Benjamin Linden:	baba I'm pretty sure I've seen a bug for that
[10:55]	Torley Tester:	Baba, I think that is fixed in an RC... either that or a similar one to that (with Profile Picks).
[10:55]	Baba Yamamoto:	oh good
[10:55]	Baba Yamamoto:	I have another event coming up.. good to see you torley ;)
[10:55]	Torley Tester:	*retitles VWR-1417 too*
[10:55]	Squirrel Wood sneaks in misc-632 ;)
[10:56]	Torley Tester:	You too Baba, it's been so long!
[10:56]	Benjamin Linden:	ok next
[10:56]	Baba Yamamoto:	busy busy!
[10:56]	Benjamin Linden:	VWR-1575
[10:56]	Benjamin Linden:	http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/vwr-1575
[10:56]	Daedalus Young:	1575, it appears fixed in the latest RC
[10:56]	Squirrel Wood:	1575... don't have that issue.. use ctrl-H to toggle the window
[10:57]	Benjamin Linden:	the behavior described is how it should work
[10:57]	Benjamin Linden:	closing should close, not reattach
[10:57]	Daedalus Young:	I can't really remember what I did since last relog, but it appears the window keeps its location and size and torn-offness between logins
[10:57]	Daedalus Young:	"Closing the window or pressing the History button, counterintuitively reattaches the window rather than the expected behaviour - i.e, that it should close, and on pressing History again should reopen in its torn off state and position."
[10:58]	Daedalus Young:	this for sure is not the case anymore in the RC
[10:58]	Torley Tester:	I can't repro VWR-1575 in 1.18.2
[10:58]	Squirrel Wood:	I've added the keyboard shortcuts to the issue
[10:58]	Torley Tester:	We changed behavior so reopening Near Me/History will retain its position.
[10:58]	Torley Tester:	Thanks Squirrel!
[10:58]	Savannah Glimmer:	I can repro it in candidate with vista
[10:58]	Daedalus Young:	yes, it works like that for me, Torley
[10:58]	Torley Tester:	Thanks Daedalus.
[10:58]	Benjamin Linden:	this is an older bug I think it's safe to say it's fixed
[10:58]	Torley Tester:	Hmmm really Savannah?
[10:59]	Torley Tester:	The behavior appears correct to me.
[10:59]	Savannah Glimmer:	I'll redo it again one sec
[10:59]	Torley Tester:	Try detaching the Near Me window, then clicking the History button on the toolbar or doing Ctrl-H.
[10:59]	Savannah Glimmer:	this time I closed all windows and history came up on its own unattached.
[11:00]	Torley Tester:	Thanks Savannah, that sounds correct.
[11:00]	Benjamin Linden:	yes, that's right
[11:00]	Benjamin Linden:	it should remember its state
[11:00]	Torley Tester:	OK, I'll mark as Fixed then.
[11:00]	Squirrel Wood:	http://www.dream.at/temp/ohours.htm <= office hour table for this week. (me wants to see something like this in the wiki)
[11:00]	Savannah Glimmer:	the first time I left the communicate window open and it retattached
[11:01]	Benjamin Linden:	you could create it, Squirrel :-)
[11:01]	Daedalus Young:	even with the communicate window open, it doesn't reattach for me
[11:01]	Savannah Glimmer:	ok
[11:01]	Daedalus Young:	only when I click the reattach button
[11:01]	Torley Tester:	Yeah, or collab with Marv on it Squirrel! I like that chart!
[11:01]	Torley Tester:	*nod* Thanks Daedalus, so it appears this is no longer an issue.
[11:01]	Daedalus Young:	I'd say so
[11:02]	Torley Tester:	=D
[11:02]	Torley Tester:	Muchly appreciated!
[11:02]	Torley Tester:	w00t, resolved that as Fixed.
[11:02]	Benjamin Linden:	ok that's a good stopping point
[11:02]	Wyn Galbraith:	Thanks for the meeting.
[11:02]	Torley Tester:	Thanks for being here with us!
[11:02]	Benjamin Linden:	thanks everyone for coming!
[11:02]	Torley Tester:	Always a joy to have your input and help figuring out these things.
[11:02]	Wyn Galbraith:	Always a pleasure Torley.
[11:02]	Benjamin Linden:	and please do remember to try and have a look at the agenda before the meeting
[11:02]	Savannah Glimmer:	Thanks Benjamin and Torley
[11:02]	Daedalus Young:	as always, I'm just happy I can help
[11:02]	Squirrel Wood:	https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-632 needs more votes. Especially Benjamin Linden votes and such ^^
[11:02]	Tao Takashi:	yep, thanks :)
[11:03]	Benjamin Linden:	I'll add a pointer to the agenda instructions on this page and start sending reminders to sldev
[11:03]	Tao Takashi:	spare your votes for my issues when I have some time to put them in ;-)
[11:03]	Torley Tester:	Oh yeah re: MISC-632, let me add a link to Particle Wizard.
[11:03]	Benjamin Linden:	I'll review that issue later today, Squirrel
[11:03]	Tao Takashi:	but some sit target editor would be nice :)
[11:03]	Benjamin Linden:	did you put it on the agenda?
[11:04]	Squirrel Wood:	wiki and I tend to be mortal enemies ^^
[11:04]	Daedalus Young:	sittarget and settext editor
[11:04]	Wyn Galbraith:	I think dialogs like that would be helpfull for a lot of complex commands.
[11:04]	Daedalus Young:	and sculptie topology changer :P
[11:04]	Savannah Glimmer:	and griefer fly paper
[11:04]	Squirrel Wood:	Add your comments and suggestions and subtasks and stuff to the issue ^^
[11:05]	Benjamin Linden:	I used to be a wiki hater too, squirrel, but I'm a convert :-)
[11:05]	Torley Tester:	Take care all, see you guys later!
[11:05]	Benjamin Linden:	ok all, Torley and I have to run
[11:05]	Tao Takashi:	wiki's are ok but somehow seen too much as the solution for everything ;_)
[11:05]	Benjamin Linden:	see you Thursday!
[11:05]	Squirrel Wood:	interface layout suggestions... put them in ^^
[11:05]	Daedalus Young:	thanks Torley, hope everything will be ok
[11:05]	Squirrel Wood:	See you ^^
[11:05]	Tao Takashi:	cya all
[11:05]	Tao Takashi:	(later) :)
[11:05]	Squirrel Wood:	and squash that nasty exploit
[11:05]	Benjamin Linden:	bye Tao
[11:05]	Savannah Glimmer:	Yes good luck Torley, hope all will be well.
[11:05]	Wyn Galbraith:	B-bye!!! :D