Difference between revisions of "User:Blondin Linden/3rd Party Viewer Brown Bag: Session 2 09 Nov 09"

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(glad I still had an edit window open... copy&paste FTW)
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== List of Attendees ==
== List of Attendees ==
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*Angela Talamasca
<ul style="-moz-column-count:3; -webkit-column-count:3; column-count:3;">
*Blondin Linden
*Catherine Linden
*Chris Tuchs
*Howard Linden
*Jacek Antonelli
*Jessica Lyon
*lordGregGreg Back
*Marty Linden
*Merov Linden
*Peter Linden
*Rebel Hope
*Soft Linden
*Taka Linden
*Teagan Linden
*Tenshi Vielle
*Thomas Shikami
*Torley Linden
*Valiant Westland
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Revision as of 07:19, 10 November 2009

List of Attendees

Transcript of the audio

None Yet

Local Text Transcript

[17:04] Jacek Antonelli: Hiya all. I can't speak, but I can hear.
[17:04] Chris Tuchs: I also can't speak, but can hear.
[17:04] Jeska Linden: heya everyone
[17:04] Tenshi Vielle waves
[17:05] Teagan Linden: hi all!
[17:05] Thomas Shikami: Greetings ^^
[17:05] Jessica Lyon: hai!
[17:05] Rebel Hope: *hug Teagan
[17:07] Chris Tuchs: I use and work on Emerald. Features I can't live without: OTR, radar, phantom, dbl click TP, very unlimited cam, import/export of linksets
[17:07] Jeska Linden: blog post: https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/blog/2009/10/20/third-party-viewer-policy
[17:07] Jeska Linden: (thanks angela)
[17:07] Jeska Linden: ops you're curring out tenshi
[17:07] Teagan Linden: voice cutting out
[17:07] Jeska Linden: er sutting
[17:07] Jeska Linden: LOL
[17:07] Jeska Linden: CUTTING
[17:07] Tenshi Vielle: whooopsies
[17:07] Tenshi Vielle: crap
[17:08] Tenshi Vielle: I'll type
[17:08] Jeska Linden: ok
[17:08] Tenshi Vielle: mic was open
[17:08] Tenshi Vielle: I use Emerald because my laptop doesn't handle the LL viewer that well it seems.
[17:08] Tenshi Vielle: Emerald devs are also working with Artist's Voice in taking community input for new features to combat content theft
[17:08] Tenshi Vielle: we're poking around and trying different things
[17:09] Tenshi Vielle: one thing that was proposed was a virus-checker like feature that scans your inventory for legit content
[17:09] Taka Linden: I do. How are you?
[17:09] Tenshi Vielle: but that was veto'd.
[17:09] Tenshi Vielle: lol
[17:09] Tenshi Vielle is done
[17:09] Jeska Linden: Thanks Tenshi
[17:09] Tenshi Vielle: (I used OnRez on my laptop before as well fyi.... just seemed lighter on my processor. I'd love a light viewer version.)
[17:09] Tenshi Vielle: (from LL)
[17:11] Thomas Shikami: but with a patch that disables the friend list sync with SLim, I can finally connect somehow and use it
[17:12] Valiant Westland: Raises Hand
[17:12] Tenshi Vielle dies
[17:12] Tenshi Vielle: lol
[17:13] Tenshi Vielle: (I have an interjection about encyption and privacy as well but it's kind of unrelated to the viewers.)
[17:14] Thomas Shikami: Are you checking that the encryption is safe?
[17:14] Chris Tuchs: I met a person ISL, and used encryption to talk about a potential programming job. We would not have been able to discuss the project in SL without OTR.
[17:15] Thomas Shikami: (and there, voice left me again)
[17:15] Tenshi Vielle: Try relogging Thomas, reestablishing connection to the Voice server that way... might clear up your issue
[17:15] Valiant Westland: Temp Textures ROCK!
[17:16] Thomas Shikami: viewer side radar feature
[17:16] Tenshi Vielle: They really do for content creators
[17:16] Thomas Shikami: double click teleport
[17:16] Chris Tuchs: Yeah, what she said, I love temp textures, I couldn't affort to create content ISL without it.
[17:16] Tenshi Vielle: They used to use the beta grid often but it was a real pain to jump around the grids
[17:16] Tenshi Vielle: (and the defriending confirmation that pops up with the third party viewers)
[17:16] Thomas Shikami: and the possibility to build something on a private opensim and import it in SL
[17:17] Valiant Westland: It would be great to have a comprehensive In/out/busy server-side set of presence indicators that function at a glance in the Contact Listing...
[17:18] Jessica Lyon: of course regarding online status.. it's very easy to check someones online status using a simple script
[17:18] Tenshi Vielle: TEMP content Reb
[17:18] Tenshi Vielle: You can temporarily upload
[17:18] Thomas Shikami: I wish this worked with sound and animations as well
[17:20] Chris Tuchs: Temp animation upload would be awesome, it is very expensive for me to create animations.
[17:20] LordGregGreg Back: emerald allows full permission export only.
[17:21] Valiant Westland: On-board Animation & Sim-wide Radar
[17:22] Tenshi Vielle: Who made it, what general opinion is on the viewer, what the differentiating features are
[17:22] Valiant Westland: Purpose, industry expertise, source availability
[17:22] Tenshi Vielle: do you have an example?
[17:23] Tenshi Vielle: Amazon.com 5 star rating system with feedback? lol
[17:23] Teagan Linden: Thomas and anyone else who cannot hear: We're asking what information people would like to see in a viewer registry, about any particular viewer
[17:23] Thomas Shikami: thanks, my voice just works again
[17:24] Chris Tuchs: I would like the registry to be as low inertia as possible, so that it is current and not full of outdated info. So I want as little as possible in the registry. Bad/outdated info is worse than none.
[17:25] Thomas Shikami: I'd like to know, if a viewer is safe to use. This means, if it has features that could risk breaking TOS
[17:25] Tenshi Vielle: 4 times in 2 weeks!
[17:26] LordGregGreg Back: +1 to jessica
[17:27] Valiant Westland: How about a LL blessed inmport-export module that could be added to any viewer!
[17:27] Thomas Shikami: How do we know that the creator allows export, full permissive isn't enough as at times they made them full perm, they didn't know that a feature like that would become a common issue
[17:27] Valiant Westland: What is it's performance index...
[17:27] Blondin Linden: Outside of your posted ToS will you be providing those developers who wish to register with your program a list of regulations?
[17:28] Blondin Linden: Will you be employing a similar policy for 3rd party developers (i.e.,, your content seller program)?
[17:29] Valiant Westland: Certified Developer + Reseller
[17:29] Tenshi Vielle: Are you going to demand they give you real life info to back that registration up?
[17:30] Tenshi Vielle: IMHO if you can file a DMCA you need to back it up with legit info as well
[17:30] Tenshi Vielle: yes
[17:30] Valiant Westland: RL Info is a MUST!
[17:30] Tenshi Vielle: yay!
[17:30] Blondin Linden: What is your stance with regard to "features" that provide an easy access path for violating people's privacy?
[17:31] Jeska Linden: doh!
[17:31] Tenshi Vielle: Yup
[17:31] Tenshi Vielle: Agreed
[17:32] Tenshi Vielle: Yeah I have had an "Online Linden" indicator.
[17:32] Valiant Westland: The on-line / off-line Best Practices of current chat clients should be the standard.
[17:32] Rebel Hope: ~*Laughs*~
[17:32] Rebel Hope: I agree
[17:33] Tenshi Vielle: Sometimes we just want to have some private time in SL as well :)
[17:34] Rebel Hope: It's like a previous function that was associated with someone tp'ing out of a sim you could find out where they tp'd to. I think online indicators are just the same.
[17:34] Blondin Linden: The hot issue seems to be content theft. Why are you focusing on clients rather than examining your DB for illegal copies?
[17:35] Jessica Lyon: agreed
[17:35] Valiant Westland: Good question...
[17:35] Tenshi Vielle: I think it's a bit insane asking you guys to dig throug hthe databases for illegal copies but if something is AR'd surely it can be immediately removed if examined and found to be stolen content?
[17:35] Tenshi Vielle: think of the volume of content.
[17:35] Chris Tuchs: No.
[17:35] Valiant Westland: Raises hand
[17:36] Chris Tuchs: Why focus on clients? The problem is, for example, I make a texture.
[17:36] Chris Tuchs: LGG steals my texture and sells it. (He never would!!!)
[17:36] Chris Tuchs: Your db now has my texture, with his name as the creator.
[17:37] Chris Tuchs: If I had registered my texture first, you could find all illegal copies of it.
[17:37] Tenshi Vielle: How could that occur if the texture is reuploaded by someone else and even renamed? How will the database indicate it's the same?
[17:38] Jessica Lyon: it would be a new image with a new UUID, virtually impossible to trace other than having a Linden open the image on the perps inventory and comparing
[17:38] Tenshi Vielle: lol perp
[17:38] Chris Tuchs: Why not? It is a database?
[17:38] Tenshi Vielle: She just said it gains a new UUID.
[17:38] Rebel Hope: but what if you have removed an item that someone copied say of mine but you only removed that one but it's full permissions.
[17:38] Tenshi Vielle: It's virtually unsearchable.
[17:39] Valiant Westland: Great to hear "it's one of the highest priorities in the company!"
[17:39] Tenshi Vielle: What's the best way to make this easier for you guys (Lindens)? What can residents do to help YOU?
[17:39] Chris Tuchs: What can clients do to make it easier?
[17:39] Blondin Linden: is one of the purposes of the registry to advertise 3rd party viewers?
[17:40] Valiant Westland: Focusing on the good and marginalizing the bad will help the problem!
[17:40] Blondin Linden: my question would be about licensing: Is correct licensing a mandatory requirement to be added to the registry?
[17:40] Angela Talamasca: I agree, Valiant! :-)
[17:41] Blondin Linden: "What's the best way to make this easier for you guys (Lindens)? What can residents do to help YOU?"
[17:41] Tenshi Vielle: In terms of finding content theft on the grid.
[17:43] Blondin Linden: QUESTION: What is the Labs position on extensions to the client that themselves are open-source, but draw upon 3rd-party server functions that are proprietary (fee-based)?
[17:45] Valiant Westland: Thanks Marty
[17:45] Blondin Linden: How will LL verify that a viewer is good? And if a viewer is on the registry, can it be removed if it becomes bad later? How will LL know if it has become bad? (Keep in mind that users could make false accusations to try to get a good viewer removed, as a form of griefing.)
[17:45] Valiant Westland: Good question...
[17:46] Tenshi Vielle: Well they (residents) already falsely file DMCAs so... you'll have to have some serious retributions for provable maliciousness.
[17:46] Rebel Hope: nods
[17:46] Valiant Westland: Good point Tenshi
[17:46] Soft Linden: We'd need an accusation to be specific and testable, I'd expect
[17:46] Tenshi Vielle: yup
[17:47] Rebel Hope: yes
[17:47] Tenshi Vielle: I guess basically the general feel that I get lately is that the punishments for things aren't severe enough - content theft, falsely filing DMCAs, etc etc. :
[17:47] Rebel Hope: is LL staffed to cover that
[17:47] Blondin Linden: how will this effect 3rd party viewers that are not distro'd? as in, used only as a private viewer
[17:47] Valiant Westland: Let's have a status indicator for indivudals and organizations to see the #AR's filed by them and against them.
[17:47] Soft Linden: Why would that go on the registry? Shouldn't be relevant.
[17:48] Chris Tuchs: I do it many times a day during development
[17:48] Valiant Westland: Will there be any type of "check" for registered viewers? Can a land owner ban all non-registered viewers?
[17:49] Valiant Westland: Raises Hand
[17:50] Angela Talamasca: yes
[17:50] Chris Tuchs: Valliant++
[17:51] Valiant Westland: So for discussion sake.. maybe we can start referring to this initiative as a Certified Client Registry
[17:51] Blondin Linden: I am curious where the lindens "vetting" will draw the line on content import and export.
[17:52] Soft Linden: I think you mean "or" not "and?"
[17:53] Tenshi Vielle: Is there anything the Second Life development team can impliment server side or in the viewer that would assist folks in NOT having content stolen off their backs? It seems most of the stolen content is coming off from duplicating off of another avatar that is currently rezzed on a sim.
[17:54] Soft Linden: Tenshi's question gets pretty far from the topic of the viewer registry, and could be hours' discussion by itself.
[17:55] Tenshi Vielle: lol sorry
[17:55] Chris Tuchs: Does LL ...
[17:55] Jacek Antonelli: (A mundane comment, doesn't really require a response -- one bit of info to have on the registry is which platforms / operating systems are supported)
[17:55] Tenshi Vielle: Just hoping to see more Resident & Linden work to solve this issue
[17:56] Chris Tuchs: have a desire to prevent private interactions in second ll
[17:56] Valiant Westland: Thank you Blondin and everyone else. This was a great session.
[17:56] Angela Talamasca: and thank you! :-)

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