User:Blue Linden/Office Hour Transcripts/March 18th, 2008

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[16:07] You: welcome everyone!

[16:08] You: I come bearing TOPICS!

[16:08] Taryn London: xD

[16:08] Jurin Juran: yay topics!

[16:08] DaQbet Kish: yeah topics

[16:08] Daedalus Young: Bay City - Pizza Oven

[16:08] Nitram Foden: oh my you have topics?

[16:08] You: I wanted to talk today about Community in SL

[16:08] You: how many people here are active in at least one community in SL?

[16:09] You: anyone here NOT in any communities in SL?

[16:10] Jurin Juran: some of my alts

[16:10] Taryn London: lol Jurin :)

[16:10] You: your "me time" alts :)

[16:10] DaQbet Kish: hehe I think all my alts are

[16:10] Daedalus Young: my alt is in a community with me

[16:11] You: much of what people do in SL is social....even my recluse building alt ended up in a couple communities

[16:11] You: and we've had topics here about the tools people use and need for community stuff

[16:12] You: but I wanted to know a bit more about how you guys see the lifecycles of your communities

[16:12] You: and how you find those groups change over time

[16:12] Taryn London: Well, mine keeps getting bigger :)

[16:12] You: you mean mentors?

[16:12] Taryn London: and bigger and bigger until group chat stops working :P

[16:12] Taryn London: lol yes

[16:12] You: lol

[16:12] You: yeah....>_<

[16:12] Squirrel Wood: The squirrels will take over the world one day. :p

[16:13] You: are you a founding member Squirrel?

[16:13] Squirrel Wood: of the squirrel world domination force? Yes!

[16:13] You: how do you guys find your communities?

[16:13] You: lol

[16:13] Taryn London: they find ME!

[16:13] Taryn London: lol

[16:14] DaQbet Kish: I think some groups are formed to fulfill a need…or perceived need

[16:14] Squirrel Wood: Communities tend to find people, yes.

[16:14] Daedalus Young: I actually just flew into one

[16:14] DaQbet Kish: and are communities and groups the same thing in this conversation?

[16:14] Squirrel Wood: they spot you, watch you, approach you, entice you, then suck you in and trap you. ^^

[16:14] You: ah right....squirrel recruiters are hardcore

[16:14] Taryn London: Sometimes people from a community harass you until you join. Right, Red?

[16:14] Squirrel Wood: hehe

[16:14] You: er...could be DaQ...in most cases, probably

[16:14] Nitram Foden: snowball effect...from one community, to another community, where you meet other people and so on..

[16:15] Taryn London nods at Nitram

[16:15] Squirrel Wood: This evil thing called group limit keeps me from joining more communities.

[16:15] Jurin Juran: yes

[16:15] Daedalus Young: yeah, you come across a lot and you stick with those that you like

[16:15] Taryn London: amen to that.

[16:15] You: any of them communities you were in BEFORE you joined SL?

[16:15] Taryn London: Maybe it's a good thing.

[16:15] Taryn London: One of them, for me, Blue

[16:15] Squirrel Wood: There are plenty communities which attempt to keep together players of other online games

[16:15] Jurin Juran: I’m in a few groups on the web who meet in SL, but since I am grouped out I can't join their groups here officially

[16:16] Daedalus Young: um, well I already was a photographer before I joined SL, but met all new people here

[16:16] Nitram Foden: Some of those are related to past work / clubs etc but also new discovery's made

[16:16] You: oh...so yeah, that's like what we were talking about last month....community tools are not sufficient here

[16:16] You: we're working on that ;p

[16:17] You: are the communities you were in previous to SL related to other games?

[16:17] Taryn London: Nope, RL stuff for me.

[16:17] You: I remember SL adding the name Thereian when a wave of people from There came over

[16:17] Nitram Foden: RL and IRC

[16:17] Nitram Foden: here

[16:18] Jason Swain worries about the implied "games" in that statement and thinks platform might be less misleading

[16:18] Daedalus Young: I have a few friends I know from a forum, but we're not really a community on SL

[16:18] Nitram Foden: but building, making clothes, machinima things I picked up here

[16:18] Jurin Juran: some RL friends I’ve worked with here in SL. , yes platform for me too. I’ve been able to add many SL groups, by just joining them in facebook.

[16:18] Taryn London: I wish I didn't hate facebook so much.

[16:18] Taryn London: :P

[16:19] You: hehe....sorry :) "games" was specific .... WoW, The Sims, Myst Online etc

[16:19] Jurin Juran: lol taryn. it serves it purpose with the groups and events in SL tho

[16:19] Daedalus Young: I only play tetris outside SL

[16:19] Taryn London: I should try it I guess. If it serves a purpose, might be worthwhile.

[16:19] Jurin Juran: and many SL'rs have also started ning groups

[16:19] You: yeah, we talked about Facebook and other social networking sites a couple weeks ago

[16:19] You: oh...Ning is pretty cool

[16:19] Jurin Juran: yeah it is

[16:19] Squirrel Wood: Please, oh please either turn off that ao or fix it!

[16:20] You: anyone learn about SL on social networking sites

[16:20] Taryn London: Not SN sites so much as blogs, for me

[16:20] You: there tends to be migratory patterns among those, I believe

[16:20] Daedalus Young: no, heard about it in the media, didn't see it on sites until I had already joined

[16:20] You: okay

[16:21] DaQbet Kish: Time magazine article is how I learned about SL

[16:21] Celano Obscure: I found SL from some friends I had on Furcadia.

[16:21] Jurin Juran: I’ve gotten a few people to join SL based on them seeing flickr pictures of SL

[16:21] You: well what about communities you joined in SL....

[16:21] Taryn London: Jurin, me too :)

[16:21] You: do you continue those relationships outside SL?

[16:21] Taryn London: Yes! :)

[16:21] Jurin Juran: yes!

[16:21] Celano Obscure: Of course.

[16:21] Nitram Foden: Some people are on my MSN yes :)

[16:21] Daedalus Young: well on blogs

[16:21] You: AA meetings, Taryn?

[16:21] Taryn London: NA, yes

[16:22] You: jk ;p

[16:22] Taryn London: lol

[16:22] You: heheh

[16:22] Celano Obscure: Yes, I most talk to them via Trillian now.

[16:22] Taryn London: good guess! haha

[16:22] Daedalus Young: people I know both in SL and RL I already knew before I joined

[16:22] Daedalus Young: hasn't been the other way round

[16:22] You: are you active in many groups Daedalus?

[16:23] Taryn London: I have lots of outofworld friends that I met inside of sl :)

[16:23] Daedalus Young: mostly art groups, photography, sculptures

[16:23] Daedalus Young: music

[16:23] You: oh that's cool!

[16:23] Daedalus Young: it sure is :)

[16:23] You: I love "art" in SL....

[16:23] You: although I get confused...where does the SL stop and the art start

[16:24] Taryn London: with windlight it's one and the same :)

[16:24] You: been really keen on live music lately too

[16:24] Redbeard McCellan: I have and see many more people with "virtual" out of SL identities. I.e. redbeard.mccellan@gmail.com www.tarynlondon.com etc

[16:24] You: yes! windlight *drool*

[16:24] You: ah, yes....I see people using their SL names to post on unrelated blogs

[16:24] Daedalus Young: ah yes, Daedalus Young Media :)

[16:24] Taryn London: I do that all the time, Blue :)

[16:24] Taryn London: Taryn London is my internet name now, not just my SL name

[16:24] You: I must admit to have done it too :)

[16:24] Jurin Juran: I use this name jurin on lots of other virtual worlds

[16:25] You: Linden needs to make identity much more portable

[16:25] Jurin Juran: yes

[16:25] Daedalus Young: I used to be just "Daedalus", but now I always add the SL last name

[16:25] You: IMs out of SL to other clients would be a great first step

[16:25] Celano Obscure: Celano has been my handle since I first got online in 1996.

[16:26] Taryn London: Oh definitely. Although if you could IM from say.. gmail to SL smoothly.. I'd never get any work done :)

[16:26] Taryn London: *gtalk

[16:26] Jurin Juran: lol

[16:26] Redbeard McCellan: IMs in interesting. I run a "redbeard" google talk client on my blackberry and have played with my own and others LSL based SL to IM gateways. Would love to see IM construct switch to an open standard...

[16:26] You: oh that's interesting

[16:26] Daedalus Young: or notecard to e-mail

[16:26] Jurin Juran: I just skype with people from SL when I’m not inworld

[16:26] Redbeard McCellan: Jabber as a backend IM engine inside SL would be great (with open federation)

[16:27] Jason Swain: I do reply to IMs via my email (on phone) when I am out of SL

[16:27] Taryn London: Me too

[16:28] Taryn London: and now they seem to have gotten rid of all the text that comes up when you send an email reply to an IM, which is nice :)

[16:28] You: Communities tend to have different pros cons as they grow....the chat issues with mentors mentioned earlier for example >_<

[16:28] Jurin Juran: I don't seem to receive all my offline IM's from SL tho

[16:28] You: anyone in very large communities, say 3000+ members?

[16:28] You: here in SL?

[16:28] Jurin Juran: SL mentors

[16:28] Redbeard McCellan: Mental Mentors ;)

[16:28] Jurin Juran: yeah mentals

[16:28] Taryn London: Mentors :)

[16:28] Jason Swain: There is an option in your Crtl + P Preferences Jurin

[16:28] Jurin Juran: concierge

[16:28] DaQbet Kish: same here

[16:29] Yeti Bing: mentors :)

[16:29] Nitram Foden: Mentors :)

[16:29] Jurin Juran: oh I know jason, but they don't all make it

[16:29] Jason Swain: ahh sorry I miss read, yes I have that problem too

[16:29] Daedalus Young: I never counted them

[16:29] Jurin Juran: I just gave up and put my email on my profile for people to email me

[16:30] You: I'm in a couple large groups and the group IM activity is a dead giveaway hehe

[16:30] Redbeard McCellan: Tiny Empires is a huge community

[16:30] Jurin Juran: I haven't worn that hud in so long

[16:30] You: ah....right, that's true

[16:30] You: do they have a Group for IMs and chatting etc?

[16:31] Nitram Foden: Sometimes I leave the IM's inside SL, so I can concentrate on other things, otherwise SL would be 24/7 instead of 12/7 what it is now I guess for me :)

[16:31] Redbeard McCellan: they do... one globally and usually one for each kingdom

[16:31] Taryn London: lol Nitram :)

[16:31] You: hehe

[16:31] You: are you in the groups Red?

[16:31] Redbeard McCellan: I am

[16:32] Redbeard McCellan: I also am in all the LSL support groups which is interesting. There are 3 groups and the same 40 people seem to answer questions in all 3 and often the question gets asked in each group at the same time :)

[16:32] You: is "spamming" the channel a notable problem?

[16:32] You: haha I can believe it ^_^

[16:32] Redbeard McCellan: Well, it is much more a free chat forum

[16:33] You: *nods

[16:33] Redbeard McCellan: Mental Mentors vs. Mentors if that reference makes sense

[16:33] You: right....that's a good example

- for those not familiar Mental Mentors group was created specifically for the silliness and spamming that’s restricted in the SL Mentor group.

[16:33] You: do you guys find that there are various languages spoken in your communities?

[16:33] You: or do they tend to be primarily one language?

[16:33] Daedalus Young: English

[16:34] DaQbet Kish: yep English

[16:34] Jason Swain: English 100%

[16:34] Taryn London: Almost all English

[16:34] You: *nods

[16:34] Nitram Foden: most English

[16:34] You: I think that's pretty common....

[16:34] Redbeard McCellan: And if not, I send them to Taryn

[16:34] You: language barrier tends to define membership in many cases

[16:34] You: hehe

[16:34] Taryn London: lol Red

[16:35] You: what about the structure of the groups....

[16:35] Nitram Foden: what structure? :)

[16:35] Taryn London: xD

[16:35] Daedalus Young: I find it odd speaking Dutch in SL, I'm too used to English

[16:35] You: are your communities democracies, dictatorships

[16:35] You: lol right Nitram...or anarchies :D

[16:35] Taryn London: doctatorships!! hahah kidding

[16:35] Taryn London: *dictatorships

[16:35] You: I'm telling him you said that xD

[16:36] Taryn London: hahah do it!

[16:36] Taryn London: Freudian slip, there.

[16:36] Daedalus Young: on the democratic side, I think proposals are used way too little

[16:36] Nitram Foden: depends one what kind of group I think, what the charter, content of the group is

[16:36] You: I'll say that my alt was in a group of 15-30 and tried running a democratic system

[16:36] You: it was tough

[16:36] You: we ended up switching to a kind of dictatorship hehe

[16:37] You: *nods

[16:37] You: what's most common for you guys?

[16:37] Taryn London: yes, very much depends on the group.

[16:37] You: freestyle groups seem pretty common up to a certain size

[16:37] You: then people start thinking about structure

[16:37] Taryn London: If the group serves a purpose, I prefer set guidelines. If it's just for fun, like MM, then I don’t mind if chaos reins.

[16:38] Daedalus Young: some groups have strict rules, like Group IM forbidden, but the entire SL art scene is an anarchy I think :P

[16:39] You: that would seem to be the artsy, bohemian way hehe

[16:39] You: unless your group were the French Salon perhaps @_@

[16:39] Daedalus Young: hehe

[16:39] You: no impressionists...get out!

[16:39] Nitram Foden: democratic style but if there are many peoples in a group, you need some kind of rules, but I prefer I minimum of rules

[16:39] You: *nods

[16:39] You: anyone in groups that have group specific space in SL

[16:40] You: a parcel...a sim...

[16:40] Redbeard McCellan: store related groups...

[16:40] You: or even a favorite telehub hangout

[16:40] Jurin Juran: yes

[16:40] You: ah right

[16:40] DaQbet Kish: yeah

[16:40] Taryn London: my club group :)

[16:40] Jurin Juran: land related

[16:40] Taryn London: I’ve been in various HIP groups I had to leave due to group limitations :(

[16:40] Nitram Foden: for me a mixture

[16:40] Redbeard McCellan: My TE line has a parcel and hang-out where they meet for events

[16:40] Daedalus Young: I used to be at a large gallery, but it closed early this year

[16:41] Taryn London: (brb)

[16:41] Jurin Juran: I have several land related groups that I cannot leave.

[16:41] You: I see a lot of problems when folks are deeding land to group....trust issues with people selling off the land or returning items

[16:42] Jason Swain: Maybe one of the out comes of people forming a group, or joining a group could be that, CoP (Communities of Practice) serve to generate Knowledge thus are very good at creating knowledge and sharing knowledge that is already known (looked at from a KM view point)

[16:42] You: do you have any other specific challenges in those groups?

[16:42] You: yeah....knowledge sharing in communities is very powerful. That's a focus of the Mentors, of course

[16:43] You: I think a lot of that happens very casually in some groups....

[16:43] You: but there are lots of tools to share knowledge...blogs, wikis etc

[16:43] You: do you guys use external tools with your SL groups?

[16:43] Nitram Foden: yes, a website

[16:44] You: can anyone in the group contribute Nitram?

[16:44] Taryn London: (back)

[16:44] You: wb :)

[16:44] Jason Swain: profiles is one of the most powerful (I believe) as it allows the user to asses the quality of the information given and to network easier

[16:44] Taryn London: me agrees

[16:45] You: right

[16:45] Nitram Foden: Yes, it is open like the group to contribute, but its very small, the group, would not know if it would work for a huge number of people, cause of bandwidth , storage etc.

[16:45] You: *nods

[16:46] You: yeah group size really changes many aspects....communication, governance, etc.

[16:46] You: the lifecycle of communities seems to have a distinct ramp up period...

[16:46] You: lots of effort made as recruiting is done, people joining, systems or guidelines established

[16:47] You: then later they go into maintenance mode as the influx of new users evens out

[16:47] DaQbet Kish: agrees

[16:47] You: has anyone been in groups where size of the group actually dwindles after a time?

[16:47] Jason Swain nods

[16:48] You: or the group eventually disperses?

[16:48] Taryn London: My club staff group :(

[16:48] Taryn London: lol

[16:48] Redbeard McCellan: lol

[16:48] You: oh really

[16:48] Nitram Foden: lots of them

[16:48] Taryn London: yeah, strippers are getting harder and harder to come by :P

[16:48] DaQbet Kish: yes I’ve been in groups the end

[16:48] You: send me an application, Taryn

[16:48] Taryn London: WooT

[16:48] Nitram Foden: hahahahaha

[16:48] You: what are the common reasons the groups die out?

[16:49] Taryn London: My alt wants to work at my club? 0.0

[16:49] You: lack of effort put into the maintenance?

[16:49] Redbeard McCellan: 25 groups limit

[16:49] Taryn London: group limits, loss of interest

[16:49] DaQbet Kish: owners leaving or limiting their SL time

[16:49] Nitram Foden: interest, limits on groups and my own limits

[16:49] You: perhaps the kind of group migration you see on social networks?

[16:49] Daedalus Young: places closing

[16:49] You: *nods

[16:50] Jurin Juran: one of my alts had one that folded into arbor project. sometimes groups merge

[16:50] Jason Swain: In one example, There was a SIM that had its own group (for land management and notices as well as community), the SIM had a lot of people but due to money reasons the SIM was given back, the group slowly died out from there onwards

[16:51] You: yeah, that's probably not unusual....

[16:51] You: communities tied to a place that can't go on without that place

[16:51] Taryn London nods

[16:51] Jason Swain: So it might be fair to say that the users in the group no longer gained from the group and so therefore left

[16:51] Jurin Juran: or if the purpose has been met, like the groups for parties and one time events

[16:52] Taryn London: that too

[16:52] Jason Swain: Yes, that is a good one Jurin

[16:52] Taryn London: Like Jurins secret rezday party group xD

[16:52] You: *right

[16:52] Jurin Juran: yeah taryn, what was that group called btw?

[16:52] Nitram Foden: we cannot disclose that information to you Jurin

[16:52] Taryn London: I don’t remember really.. something standard like "Jurins big rezday party"

[16:52] Jurin Juran: heh

[16:52] You: what are the successful groups you're in doing to keep the community vibrant and membership steady or growing?

[16:53] Taryn London: I do remember it had "Uncheck Show In Profile" like 3 times on the group main page though

[16:53] Taryn London: hehe

[16:53] Jason Swain: That’s the million linden question :P

[16:53] Jurin Juran: SL Hobos is a strong community

[16:53] You: hehe

[16:53] You: yes, the Hobos have spin off groups...that's usually a good sign

[16:53] Daedalus Young: the place that closed had plenty of events, music performers, new artwork all the time

[16:53] Nitram Foden: fun, trustworthy, nice to be in, the people

[16:54] DaQbet Kish: some have an appeal such as Isle of Wyrms...everyone loves dragons

[16:54] Taryn London: Colton’s fan group Jurin made is growing because Colton spams everyone to join xD

[16:54] Taryn London: and the free shirt.

[16:54] Jurin Juran: yeah

[16:54] You: lol

[16:54] Jurin Juran: and I might have to leave it due to group limits!

[16:54] Taryn London: awww Jurin! :(

[16:54] Jurin Juran: well?

[16:54] Nitram Foden: awww indeed

[16:55] Jurin Juran: I had to leave kates and everetts groups too

[16:55] Jason Swain: People seem to join a group to gain some kind of identity in SL, so maybe if the group continues to offer an ID that is useful or pleasing to the user, they will continue to stay as they benefit from the association

[16:55] You: well suffice it to say that Group Limits are a pet peeve of everyone

[16:55] Taryn London: I met an avi last night named "Random Person", I was very impressed.

[16:55] You: hopefully we can do something about that before too long

[16:55] Jurin Juran: oh that’s a great name

[16:55] You: that IS a good name :O

[16:55] Taryn London: they IM'ed me, I thought it was a bug

[16:56] You: lol

[16:56] Jurin Juran: every time I see a good name like that I want another alt

[16:56] Taryn London: then I saw their tag :P

[16:56] Jason Swain: I have lots of friends called (hippos) and (waiting) although they are not that talkative :P

[16:56] Taryn London: hahaa me too

[16:56] Daedalus Young: lol

[16:56] DaQbet Kish: lol

[16:56] You: so we're coming up on 5:00, so let me throw out one more question.....

[16:56] You: haha yeah ;)

[16:56] Nitram Foden: lol

[16:57] You: what can Linden do (besides allow more groups) to help communities function and grow in SL

[16:57] Taryn London: grr. Ctrl-Shift-H teleports you home. :P

[16:57] Jurin Juran: maybe a web presence like think, like user webpages?

[16:57] You: ah, that's a good one Jurin

[16:58] Taryn London: I think a large percentage of the diehards have their own sites or blogs

[16:58] Jurin Juran: I know at kaneva and twinity and other places you keep in touch with friends and groups with those web based sites

[16:58] Taryn London: Some people add to them more than others

[16:58] Taryn London looks pointedly at Blue

[16:58] Jason Swain: I think that some of the current bugs are hampering communities at the moment, for example AW Groupies keeps erroring out so I miss all the latest LL gossip.

[16:58] Redbeard McCellan: I do like the IM federation we chatted about earlier, user web pages is interesting.

[16:58] Nitram Foden: hmm maybe something like a premium-group you get 512sqm tier for free

[16:58] You: omg accused!

[16:59] Daedalus Young: or an easily browsable directory on subjects

[16:59] You: yeah...that one is pretty bad Jason

[16:59] You: I know the bug hunters are aware of it

[16:59] Taryn London nods

[16:59] Jurin Juran: mentals and SL mentors error out for me always

[16:59] Jason Swain: *wasn’t complaining* btw ^^

[16:59] Redbeard McCellan: A UI issue that I know effects my interaction in groups - the fact that IMs show up w/ local chat often has me close group windows to stop the clutter for my local chat

[16:59] You: okay then I will...I HATE that group error :O

[16:59] Daedalus Young: so when you're searching for people sharing your interests, you find it by browsing rather than searching and hoping that lists all

[16:59] Redbeard McCellan: That in turn limits my participation in that group

[16:59] Jason Swain: hehe ok

[17:00] Taryn London: Red, just leave chat history open at all times :P

[17:00] Redbeard McCellan: I do...

[17:00] Taryn London: I've had to do that for awhile

[17:00] You: Red, you can shut that off I think....IM in local chat

[17:00] Taryn London nods

[17:00] Redbeard McCellan: And as you know Taryn *I* happen to have the monitor real estate, but it still bugs me :)

[17:00] Daedalus Young: we just triaged that an hour ago :P

[17:00] Redbeard McCellan: I think it is log IM

[17:01] Redbeard McCellan: rather, show IM in CHAT history is the option

[17:01] Daedalus Young: Include IM in Chat History I think maybe possibly

[17:01] Taryn London: lol yes.. trying to figure out which windows to leave open at any given time can be a PITA

[17:01] You: ah yeah, that's the one

[17:01] Redbeard McCellan: yes. That’s the opposite, but I digress

[17:01] Jurin Juran: I haven't been able to get SL mentor or mental mentor group chat in a long time

[17:02] Taryn London: I can but only sometimes. I have to open the group chat manually a few times before it will stay open usually.

[17:02] You: well, looks like it's a 5 o’clock world when the whistle blows....*la la la la la* To youuu....

[17:02] You: it always seems like this hour goes by too fast

[17:02] Jason Swain: That was a really cool meeting, thanks Blue

[17:02] Nitram Foden: it does

[17:02] Celano Obscure nods.

[17:02] You: maybe I need mini topics so we don't feel like we're leaving with more to discuss hehe

[17:02] Taryn London: Blue, you rule. We love you. :)

[17:02] You: no loving the lindens

[17:02] Nitram Foden: thanks for hosting us Blue, see you around :)

[17:02] Taryn London: I think we'll always feel like there is more to discuss!

[17:03] You: thanks very much everyone....your contributions are always fantastic :D

[17:03] Taryn London: I see your directive and up the ante. I'm gonna luv u whether you like it or not. XD

[17:03] DaQbet Kish: thanks Blue