User:Enkidu Linden/Office Hours/2010-07-08

List of Attendees

• Enkidu Linden
• Hermit Barber
• Jonit Ivory
• Latif Khalifa
• Linux Rootcreeper
• Mossbottom Mahogany
• Prim textures

Transcript

[11:05]	Enkidu Linden:	hey guys!
[11:05]	Latif Khalifa:	hello Enkidu
[11:05]	Enkidu Linden:	how's it going, latif?
[11:06]	Latif Khalifa:	its summertime :) doing well, how about you?
[11:06]	Enkidu Linden:	pretty good. i made it into the office today
[11:07]	Latif Khalifa:	yey
[11:07]	Enkidu Linden:	i was working remotely for most of the past month
[11:07]	Latif Khalifa:	wich office are you working at?
[11:07]	Enkidu Linden:	scenic mountain view!
[11:07]	Latif Khalifa:	hey Moss :)
[11:07]	Jonit Ivory:	in V2, still getting used to it, Torley said it would be easy.. bear with me
[11:07]	Mossbottom Mahogany:	Hello!
[11:07]	Enkidu Linden:	welcome, everyone
[11:07]	Latif Khalifa:	hey joint
[11:08]	Jonit Ivory:	ciao :)
[11:08]	Enkidu Linden:	what would you like to discuss today?
[11:08]	Linux Rootcreeper:	:o
[11:09]	Latif Khalifa:	that depends, are you working on search?
[11:09]	Enkidu Linden:	nope!
[11:09]	Jonit Ivory:	Grrr, wail wail, search, if you discuss I am in on that one
[11:09]	Jonit Ivory:	never mind
[11:10]	Mossbottom Mahogany:	What are you working on?
[11:10]	Enkidu Linden:	i think jack's office hours might be going on right now, and he might be able to discuss search questions
[11:10]	Jonit Ivory:	Jack's OH is always a frought affair
[11:10]	Jonit Ivory:	very stressful
[11:10]	Jonit Ivory:	he has angry land barons
[11:10]	Linux Rootcreeper:	Jack has meetings?
[11:10]	Latif Khalifa:	Jack is not to be trusted ;)
[11:11]	Enkidu Linden:	aw
[11:11]	Mossbottom Mahogany:	Angry land barrons? sounds like Jack needs rebelious land barron hating tennents with torches and pitchforks
[11:11]	Enkidu Linden:	search is a pretty hot topic so i wish i could speak about it, but i'm not on that team
[11:11]	Linux Rootcreeper:	What team are you on? :)
[11:12]	Enkidu Linden:	i'm on a team of web engineers devoted to, generally speaking, making things better
[11:13]	Linux Rootcreeper:	Oh cool, do you handle PHP stuff?
[11:13]	Jonit Ivory:	Well, so you are intergrating Marketplace into the look and feel?
[11:13]	Enkidu Linden:	i do a lot of php stuff, and python, and more and more javascript
[11:13]	Linux Rootcreeper:	Ohh, nice :D
[11:14]	Linux Rootcreeper:	Javascript is a nice language
[11:14]	Enkidu Linden:	i'm not on the marketplace team
[11:14]	Enkidu Linden:	i've heard people like the new marketplace
[11:14]	Jonit Ivory:	but general look and feel of the new Sl website?
[11:14]	Latif Khalifa:	do you use any particular JS framework, like jQuery?
[11:14]	Enkidu Linden:	not really look/feel stuff
[11:14]	Jonit Ivory:	to be honest I thing it's nice to have things looking similar accross elements of the website
[11:14]	Enkidu Linden:	yeah, we use jquery a lot
[11:14]	Jonit Ivory:	marketplace included
[11:15]	Enkidu Linden:	actually i have a real love/hate relationship with jquery
[11:15]	Linux Rootcreeper:	Is jquery for ajax? I've actually just started learning JS so I dunno lol
[11:16]	Enkidu Linden:	jquery is often used in developing ajax applications, yep
[11:16]	Linux Rootcreeper:	Ah, that is nifty
[11:16]	Enkidu Linden:	i rather like javascript too
[11:16]	Latif Khalifa:	also for providing compatibility layer, so you don't have to worry about is it explorer or firefox, or other browsers
[11:17]	Linux Rootcreeper:	what about ActionScript? :p
[11:17]	Jonit Ivory:	JS is old
[11:17]	Enkidu Linden:	true
[11:17]	Enkidu Linden:	but!
[11:17]	Jonit Ivory:	ActionScript shouldbe old!
[11:17]	Enkidu Linden:	it's also new! ecma 5!
[11:17]	Linux Rootcreeper:	yeah they update it
[11:18]	Jonit Ivory:	new standard
[11:18]	Jonit Ivory:	Gosh, I used to code HTML in HotDog Pro, I am old
[11:18]	Linux Rootcreeper:	haha
[11:18]	Enkidu Linden:	heh, i happen to have the source for jquery 1.4.2 open
[11:19]	Jonit Ivory:	Enkidu, where is your primary work focus now?
[11:19]	Linux Rootcreeper:	I used to use Netscape Composer back in 2000 lol
[11:20]	Mossbottom Mahogany:	I still use it, it still works fine
[11:20]	Mossbottom Mahogany:	and frankly I dont need all that garbadge like CSS
[11:21]	Linux Rootcreeper:	CSS is nice
[11:21]	Enkidu Linden:	i'm working on a project related to the viewer
[11:21]	Jonit Ivory:	CSS is ubiquitous though
[11:21]	Linux Rootcreeper:	lol it's frustrating sometimes :p
[11:21]	Enkidu Linden:	can't discuss yet, but i'm excited to when it launches
[11:21]	Mossbottom Mahogany:	I cant figure out any reason for CSS to exist
[11:21]	Latif Khalifa:	something viewer will display?
[11:21]	Jonit Ivory:	Ah, integration with outside stuff, Gah! Facebook integration!
[11:21]	Latif Khalifa:	lol
[11:21]	Mossbottom Mahogany:	arrg...
[11:21]	Mossbottom Mahogany:	brb
[11:22]	Jonit Ivory:	You saw that WoW are mandating real identities in forums soon
[11:22]	Enkidu Linden:	yes, this project will be used in-viewer using webkit
[11:22]	Enkidu Linden:	sort of like the help system does in 2.0
[11:22]	Jonit Ivory:	can you be more specific as to the purpose?
[11:23]	Enkidu Linden:	i can be all sorts of vague!
[11:23]	Jonit Ivory:	ha ha ha
[11:23]	Jonit Ivory:	:)
[11:23]	Jonit Ivory:	we won't tell, promise
[11:23]	Jonit Ivory:	Umm, ok be vague
[11:23]	Latif Khalifa:	lol
[11:23]	Enkidu Linden:	broadly, we want to build viewer features on web for a variety of reasons
[11:24]	Jonit Ivory:	Hmm, is this followin on from M's we want SLWEB! thing?
[11:24]	Linux Rootcreeper:	You ever use that browser based viewer before? lol
[11:24]	Enkidu Linden:	jonit, yes, that was the announcement
[11:24]	Jonit Ivory:	Okay, I have a reference point
[11:24]	Jonit Ivory:	thanks
[11:25]	Jonit Ivory:	Yes it could work, but hopefully not at the detriment of inworld
[11:25]	Latif Khalifa:	Enkidu, you need to seriously improve the web performance before turning more of viewre interface into html
[11:25]	Jonit Ivory:	it could be useful for adoption, but SL is not Farmville
[11:25]	Enkidu Linden:	although i think he also talked about a purely browser based experience
[11:25]	Jonit Ivory:	Yes, and now that Philip's back, I hope that has been canned
[11:26]	Linux Rootcreeper:	Philip has his own viewer
[11:26]	Jonit Ivory:	never crashes?
[11:26]	Linux Rootcreeper:	I dunno, never tried it lol
[11:26]	Enkidu Linden:	web performance is a serious concern of ours with viewer components
[11:26]	Linux Rootcreeper:	He has some interesting goals in mind though
[11:26]	Jonit Ivory:	I think that it's useful for adoption not to have to make people download a client sure
[11:26]	Jonit Ivory:	and social networking elements are useful
[11:26]	Jonit Ivory:	SL is a walled garden
[11:27]	Jonit Ivory:	and that makes it difficult to propogate
[11:27]	Enkidu Linden:	in fact i was just thinking of ways to make the help system faster
[11:27]	Enkidu Linden:	that's the beauty of driving to work, i suppose
[11:27]	Jonit Ivory:	Yes
[11:27]	Linux Rootcreeper:	ha :p
[11:27]	Jonit Ivory:	red lights give thinking time
[11:28]	Enkidu Linden:	part of the reason i dislike jquery is that it's too big
[11:28]	Jonit Ivory:	nifty subject chabge there, or was it chat lag?
[11:28]	Jonit Ivory:	Jquery is bloated yes
[11:29]	Enkidu Linden:	no, that's one of the performance issues with the help system
[11:29]	Enkidu Linden:	we had to use jquery for part of it, so it's now slower
[11:29]	Enkidu Linden:	i'd like to remove jquery from that equation
[11:29]	Jonit Ivory:	Hmm time to load
[11:30]	Enkidu Linden:	my beef with jquery is that it's not modular
[11:30]	Jonit Ivory:	and a Help query for "house" have me 1 result
[11:30]	Latif Khalifa:	secondlife web sites in general could use some speed boost :)
[11:30]	Enkidu Linden:	i mean, it supports modules, but the base jquery load is pretty huge
[11:30]	Enkidu Linden:	that's true!
[11:31]	Jonit Ivory:	a dashboard login takes forever
[11:32]	Enkidu Linden:	the best news i have to offer on that front is that i have continually complained about that
[11:32]	Enkidu Linden:	and
[11:32]	Jonit Ivory:	bigger boxes?
[11:32]	Enkidu Linden:	i'm starting to hear more people talking about web perf issues
[11:33]	Jonit Ivory:	What's it on? Apache on Debian?
[11:33]	Enkidu Linden:	there was a google blog a few months ago about how site performance was going to start effecting pagerank
[11:33]	Jonit Ivory:	yep, spiders don't hang around
[11:33]	Jonit Ivory:	well that's the plan
[11:33]	Enkidu Linden:	i think it's great news
[11:34]	Enkidu Linden:	apache on debian, yes
[11:34]	Enkidu Linden:	it's not really our servers in most cases
[11:34]	Jonit Ivory:	ty
[11:35]	Enkidu Linden:	the sl.com dashboard has a variety of problems that cause slowness in the browser, mainly
[11:36]	Enkidu Linden:	you can pretty much see a list of all the problem by running YSlow on it
[11:36]	Jonit Ivory:	I have not yet
[11:37]	Jonit Ivory:	althought Marketplace fails to load with an apology most times
[11:37]	Jonit Ivory:	that element of the dashboard
[11:37]	Enkidu Linden:	hmm
[11:38]	Latif Khalifa:	wow, the new search just became live
[11:38]	Enkidu Linden:	that seems suboptimal
[11:38]	Latif Khalifa:	and its horrible
[11:38]	Enkidu Linden:	really?
[11:38]	Jonit Ivory:	Latif, howso? and yes Enkidu, that element fails to load for me
[11:39]	Enkidu Linden:	"Please stand by while we investigate." i love this error
[11:39]	Jonit Ivory:	That one!
[11:39]	Latif Khalifa:	totally irrelevant results
[11:39]	Latif Khalifa:	this is going to be the final nail in the coffin of sl economy
[11:39]	Jonit Ivory:	maybe my girlfriend's store is back in listings, Hell she was below some very nefarious regions
[11:41]	Jonit Ivory:	Enkidu?
[11:41]	Hermit Barber:	Jonit, I just heard, "Rut Roh, Search update just rolled out.. Merchants, check your listings! ;)"..."lasted 3 minutes before"... "looks like it is being rolled to all the servers" and commented, "Visualizes a drunken PHP script rolling from server to server and nods sagely. That would explain so much about SL these days."
[11:41]	Jonit Ivory:	JPEG on way
[11:41]	Jonit Ivory:	this is solid
[11:42]	Hermit Barber:	Enso's axe might help.
[11:42]	Jonit Ivory:	Gah!
[11:42]	Jonit Ivory:	stop those PHPs
[11:42]	Enkidu Linden:	yeah, i see that too, jonit
[11:42]	Jonit Ivory:	they smell of poo
[11:42]	Enkidu Linden:	just don't leave the site until we fix it!
[11:42]	Jonit Ivory:	Pay my electricity.. we can discuss
[11:42]	Enkidu Linden:	haha
[11:42]	Enkidu Linden:	tell you what, i will go look at the logs
[11:43]	Hermit Barber:	Or we will lose our ass(ets)?
[11:43]	Jonit Ivory:	if I had foloowed some of those search results for my girlfriend's products, my ass(etts) would surely have been lost
[11:43]	Jonit Ivory:	and I didn't have Adult ticked
[11:44]	Jonit Ivory:	followed* Gah I typed foloowed?
[11:46]	Jonit Ivory:	Hola Hermis :)
[11:46]	Jonit Ivory:	uff
[11:46]	Jonit Ivory:	Hermit!
[11:46]	Hermit Barber:	:-)
[11:46]	Hermit Barber:	Jonit!
[11:46]	Jonit Ivory:	you're nicer to me than Prok was last night, she called me names
[11:46]	Jonit Ivory:	anyway
[11:47]	Jonit Ivory:	Enkidu, you are checking the logs?
[11:47]	Enkidu Linden:	sure
[11:48]	Jonit Ivory:	it used to work, date unavailable, start from there lol
[11:49]	Hermit Barber:	pFokosfky is an annoying pFool, best ignored.
[11:49]	Jonit Ivory:	pFyes
[11:51]	Enkidu Linden:	i'm guessing something changed on the xstreet side of things
[11:52]	Jonit Ivory:	most likely
[11:52]	Jonit Ivory:	it's very fluid
[11:53]	Jonit Ivory:	this issue could be moot as they move new Marketplace from Beta
[11:53]	Jonit Ivory:	but it's ugly!
[11:54]	Hermit Barber:	Enkidu, I used to tell people to keep the LL contact info in the "My Notes" sectrion of their profiles, but I think that has vanished in the obese ADHD turkey on crack wannabe a web browser viewer. Why not have it on the front page of the site for anyone logged in with Concierge access, instead of hiding it deep in the site, on the grounds that when it is needed it is needed urgently. Especially now that you have to waste time dealing with clueless wannabe Linden's 4 times before its escalated.
[11:54]	Enkidu Linden:	yeah, can't parse the xstreet feed
[11:55]	Jonit Ivory:	They outsourced LiveChat?
[11:55]	Latif Khalifa:	well i thought it was impossible to fsck up search even more, but they just managed to do it
[11:56]	Hermit Barber:	Looks like it. They have names like Onatine now.
[11:56]	Enkidu Linden:	i probably should update my profile
[11:56]	Hermit Barber:	They need to make a big notice and put it up in the computer centers. "The Gerbils must be fed daily"
[11:56]	Enkidu Linden:	wow, it's empty
[11:57]	Jonit Ivory:	Enkidu, drop down options are parsed on that element. ok end of that issue, we have a new topic
[11:57]	Jonit Ivory:	empty?
[11:58]	Jonit Ivory:	hermit, anecdotal evidence does suggest that LivChat, and possibly 1st look at tickets is not in the lab any more
[11:58]	Jonit Ivory:	Enkidu? can you comment?
[11:59]	Enkidu Linden:	i'm afraid not. i don't know anything about it
[11:59]	Jonit Ivory:	allright :)
[12:00]	Hermit Barber:	I think Ontyne is Marathi for "My job is to prevent you from bothering the people who know anything about Second Life. You will come to hate me with a deep and abiding passion."
[12:00]	Jonit Ivory:	Meh, nice jobs to have
[12:00]	Enkidu Linden:	i've escalated the dashboard issue to the xstreet team
[12:01]	Jonit Ivory:	Thanks
[12:01]	Enkidu Linden:	they were already aware of the problem but weren't sure what it was yet
[12:01]	Jonit Ivory:	is there a JIRA they are working to?
[12:01]	Enkidu Linden:	probably but i don't have it
[12:01]	Jonit Ivory:	k
[12:02]	Jonit Ivory:	Hmm I just tried search, Latif it's worse
[12:02]	Jonit Ivory:	Oh deary me, it's rather a lot worse
[12:02]	Enkidu Linden:	sorry to hear that
[12:02]	Enkidu Linden:	i'll let the search team know they should read this transcript
[12:02]	Latif Khalifa:	it's horrible
[12:03]	Jonit Ivory:	it's better for some things I suppose, but it just seems that GSA is a round peg in SL's square hole
[12:03]	Latif Khalifa:	and not like SL economy needs more beating
[12:03]	Latif Khalifa:	this could as well be the finall nail
[12:03]	Jonit Ivory:	possibly, but LL I guess need tangible examples of failures, not anecdotes
[12:04]	Jonit Ivory:	is there a metaJIRA for it?
[12:04]	Latif Khalifa:	jia's just get ignored
[12:05]	Enkidu Linden:	i thought there was
[12:05]	Enkidu Linden:	but i agree. the more specific you can be about the problem, the better
[12:06]	Jonit Ivory:	it's a very subjective issue though
[12:06]	Jonit Ivory:	search relevancy
[12:06]	Enkidu Linden:	our public jiras aren't usually ignored but they often don't get commented on by us enough
[12:06]	Jonit Ivory:	that is very true
[12:06]	Jonit Ivory:	just a hmm yes we know there's an issue would help
[12:07]	Jonit Ivory:	and fire Workingonit Linden
[12:07]	Enkidu Linden:	i agree completely
[12:07]	Enkidu Linden:	i haven't gotten many pjiras
[12:07]	Jonit Ivory:	he's a placeholder, we all know this
[12:07]	Enkidu Linden:	and i'm not perfect either, of course
[12:07]	Jonit Ivory:	nobody is
[12:08]	Jonit Ivory:	10 minutes to code a fix
[12:08]	Jonit Ivory:	+1 miinute to add something in JIRA
[12:08]	Jonit Ivory:	that's just 11
[12:08]	Enkidu Linden:	i think actually one of our problems with this is the the pjiras usually get copied to our internal jira, which we comment on quite a lot
[12:09]	Enkidu Linden:	but then we forget to go back to the pjira and drop status
[12:09]	Jonit Ivory:	yep, but those comments need manual intervention on the unimported source
[12:09]	Jonit Ivory:	it's just PR
[12:09]	Jonit Ivory:	to know that someone is working in it
[12:09]	Latif Khalifa:	my shop went from the first page of search to nowhere to be found :(
[12:10]	Enkidu Linden:	that's awful!
[12:10]	Jonit Ivory:	I know it's seen, when someone makes a silly suggestion on VWR-27 for example, Nyx is fast to chime in
[12:10]	Prim textures	overlap strangely when transparent textures applied
[12:10]	Jonit Ivory:	so did my girlfriend's shop
[12:10]	Jonit Ivory:	she dropped from over 4k traffic to under 400
[12:10]	Jonit Ivory:	tangible evidence that search is borked
[12:10]	Enkidu Linden:	i assume you have followed the search guidelines in the wiki
[12:11]	Jonit Ivory:	she has
[12:11]	Jonit Ivory:	filed tickets too
[12:11]	Enkidu Linden:	so you should open pjiras
[12:11]	Enkidu Linden:	ok
[12:11]	Jonit Ivory:	the answer was, umm well yes they go up and down, it's more dynamic
[12:11]	Jonit Ivory:	but nowhere to be found is constant
[12:11]	Latif Khalifa:	i m getting really tired of all this, need to cut my loses and give up
[12:12]	Jonit Ivory:	she refused my help this month and barely managed tier
[12:12]	Enkidu Linden:	does your store have a public web page, latif?
[12:12]	Jonit Ivory:	I know she wants this to work on her own
[12:12]	Jonit Ivory:	but hell
[12:12]	Jonit Ivory:	she was doing sooooo well
[12:12]	Latif Khalifa:	Enkidu, no, why would that be relevant?
[12:13]	Enkidu Linden:	it would probably be indexed by google
[12:13]	Jonit Ivory:	Meh
[12:13]	Enkidu Linden:	just wondering how it might appear there
[12:13]	Jonit Ivory:	that takes the responsibility off you
[12:13]	Latif Khalifa:	SL merhants depend 100% on in viewer search
[12:13]	Enkidu Linden:	sure, sure
[12:13]	Jonit Ivory:	http://www.google.co.uk/ #hl=en&source=hp&q=mentine+boots&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=4decbba4b4ffde8d
[12:13]	Latif Khalifa:	the thing they released today is going to kill off large bits of sl economy
[12:14]	Jonit Ivory:	top result in google
[12:14]	Enkidu Linden:	i'm just curious
[12:14]	Jonit Ivory:	try boots in Sl
[12:14]	Jonit Ivory:	nobody searches for store name
[12:15]	Jonit Ivory:	but, on the way to looking for her on mage n
[12:15]	Jonit Ivory:	page*
[12:15]	Enkidu Linden:	interesting.. i see that her store itself is 4th on google
[12:15]	Jonit Ivory:	you get so many irrelevant results
[12:15]	Jonit Ivory:	yep
[12:15]	Jonit Ivory:	only her Blogspot page
[12:15]	Jonit Ivory:	not SL
[12:16]	Jonit Ivory:	Ahh yes 4th
[12:16]	Jonit Ivory:	the store
[12:16]	Jonit Ivory:	no keyword stuffing
[12:16]	Jonit Ivory:	no gaming
[12:16]	Jonit Ivory:	and she is nowhere in SL search in her main producy
[12:16]	Jonit Ivory:	product*
[12:17]	Jonit Ivory:	search "boots" in Sl
[12:17]	Enkidu Linden:	i just did
[12:17]	Jonit Ivory:	up to Moderate level
[12:17]	Jonit Ivory:	and see the irrelevancy
[12:17]	Enkidu Linden:	ok
[12:18]	Latif Khalifa:	first result "CCS Dark Roleplay Urban Scifi Sci-fi Cyberpunk Cybergoth Cyber Shopping Mall Drum and Bass jungle Electro Club Electronic Art Gallery Weapons ."
[12:18]	Latif Khalifa:	nothing to do with boots
[12:18]	Jonit Ivory:	Yup
[12:18]	Jonit Ivory:	not a thing
[12:18]	Jonit Ivory:	something is broken
[12:18]	Jonit Ivory:	now I know it's not your dept
[12:18]	Latif Khalifa:	well i guess LL tought LL economy was too strong, it needed some killing
[12:18]	Jonit Ivory:	but you can escalate out of your dept?
[12:19]	Jonit Ivory:	or just pass an example over?
[12:19]	Enkidu Linden:	sometimes
[12:19]	Jonit Ivory:	free info
[12:19]	Jonit Ivory:	internal JIRA
[12:19]	Enkidu Linden:	if you have already opened jiras, can you paste them here?
[12:19]	Jonit Ivory:	No, she has only tickets
[12:19]	Jonit Ivory:	just an email
[12:19]	Jonit Ivory:	please?
[12:20]	Jonit Ivory:	not for us, but Latif seems to be suffereing too
[12:20]	Jonit Ivory:	same issue
[12:20]	Jonit Ivory:	and other's I've spoken to
[12:20]	Enkidu Linden:	of course
[12:20]	Jonit Ivory:	others*
[12:20]	Jonit Ivory:	dump this chat log in
[12:20]	Jonit Ivory:	if all are happy?
[12:20]	Enkidu Linden:	but if you have pjiras, i can pass them comething concrete
[12:21]	Jonit Ivory:	Meh, this chatlog should be enough to trigger an internal
[12:21]	Enkidu Linden:	hey, i'm sorry to cut this off but i need to go grab lunch before a meeting
[12:21]	Jonit Ivory:	Thanks, take care, don't forget us!
[12:21]	Enkidu Linden:	no problem, i will post a transcript and point them to it
[12:21]	Latif Khalifa:	thanks for your time Enkidu
[12:21]	Jonit Ivory:	Cheers
[12:21]	Jonit Ivory:	yep, thanks for your time
[12:21]	Enkidu Linden:	my pleasure. thanks for coming!
[12:22]	Enkidu Linden:	see you next week!
[12:22]	Hermit Barber:	Bye
[12:22]	Jonit Ivory:	Ciao!

Generated with SLog Wikifier