User:Jack Linden/Office Hour/2008-06-25
13:04] Carricre Wind: does it pay? :) [13:04] Qie Niangao: any news on Rail, Jack? [13:04] Jack Linden: yes it does! [13:04] Jack Linden: USD$10 per hour [13:04] Carricre Wind: hmmmm, interesting :) [13:04] Carricre Wind: I'll sign up then, I'm only far to busy :) [13:05] Jack Linden: Qie, Michael would know more on that, but I know he has been talking to a lot of people about rail scripts and so on [13:05] Qie Niangao: thanks. [13:05] Arawn Spitteler's not very skilled, but will apply anyways [13:05] Jack Linden: it's possible we may use a blank stretch of roadway for rail [13:05] Wurlitzer Seisenbacher is Online [13:06] Jack Linden: okay, so that's me done. who has something they want to ask or talk about? [13:06] Austin Hallard: i do jack [13:06] Jack Linden: go Austin [13:06] Jack Linden: :) [13:07] Austin Hallard: ive prepared a statement actually to set the record straight on a land related issue [13:07] Ancient Shriner: <looks expectently) [13:07] Austin Hallard: I operate Primlands, a successful company which buys and sells small parcels of land, typically called micro-parcels. My business is nothing short of 100% ethical. I am a productive member of the community and have never broken the TOS. [13:07] Rem Nightfire: does it have anything to do with extortion? [13:07] Austin Hallard: I have found most people are completely understanding, supportive, or simply indifferent to the micro-parcel business. There is a very small group of people behind the entire anti-ad protest (the rest are just newbies that joined under peer pressure, many not even knowing what these people are doing). Some of the leaders of these griefers are just people who want my land for free. Its really just that simple, and a close analysis of their chat logs will prove this beyond any doubt. [13:07] Austin Hallard: Unlike me, these protesters break the TOS constantly. Parcel encroachment, blackmail, harassment, intimidation, and stalking are but a few of their crimes. A common tactic of these griefers is to drop a large object or tree over my land and then try to blackmail me into giving them the land for a lower price or for free. Of course , I never give in to these griefers and AR them immediately. Many of these griefers have rap sheets a mile long and should be permanently banned from SL. [13:08] Ancient Shriner: Hear Hear! [13:08] Austin Hallard: The main argument of these griefers is their claim of extortion. There is no extortion, I can assure you. I have never used any type of inducement to sell my parcels. I buy land and I sell land, and that is all. If they think the price is high, they are under no obligation to buy it. Simply having a price which someone considers high is not extortion. Extortion involves some kind of pressure or denial of an essential service, neither of which apply to this situation. There is no extortion. [13:08] You: Oh here we go again, would be great if there was ever any other subject discussed here [13:08] Ancient Shriner: <stops floor with cane> [13:08] Qie Niangao: Oh, Ancient, supporting the extortion now, are we? [13:08] Austin Hallard: I saw an ad parcel (240 m aprox) sell in Bay City for over 100,000 L$. Either Linden Lab is in the extortion business or else these griefers have a screw loose. You decide. Its one or the other, it doesnt go both ways. [13:08] Timo Daehlie: 1495 L$ for a 16m2 is extortion Austin .. [13:08] Rem Nightfire: try 2995 [13:08] Talarus Luan: 4995 [13:08] Timo Daehlie: 4995 too [13:08] You: Well you know damn well that people arent buying those parcels to build homes on [13:09] Austin Hallard: These anti-ad griefers have no rights to anothers land, nor do they have any right to harass me constantly and to tie up the lindens valuable time with false AR's. Another tactic of theirs is come here and tie up all YOUR time , using the same arguments week after week, and not giving honest residents a chance to come and speak on real issues. [13:09] Ancient Shriner: So you are saying we can't use the parcels for ads . . . only for home building [13:09] Rem Nightfire: you buy them inspots that make life difficult for neighboring landowners [13:09] Austin Hallard: My solution is simple and will ultimately save the Lindens alot of time. Anyone filing a false AR should themself be punished. This fits into the already existing TOS. For example, these protesters brag about filing ARs against me simply because they think my price is high. They are wasting the Lindens time with this, since there is nothing in the TOS governing the pricing of parcels (nor should there ever be). Since they are knowingly trying to tarnish my good reputation by making false claims, they should be punished. Once this happens a few times, they will stop and the situation will return to normal. [13:09] You: Make it sound as pretty as you'd like, tos or not we all know what your doing even you [13:09] SL Exchange Magic Box black: SL Exchange - Delivered item Basic Black Heels Boxed. [13:09] Austin Hallard: Thank you for your time Jack. If you ever want to discuss this in more detail, please feel free to IM me. I will send you a copy of my statement for your records, along with my email, should you wish to contact me via that medium. [13:10] Talarus Luan: The office hours are for all of us, and we don't monopolize it. We maintain presence to keep the issue at the very forefront, so that is all a load of BS. [13:10] You: You want a sticker for staying in the tos, I'll make one up for you [13:10] Chrischun Fassbinder: Ancient, I'd hope not, vendors on small parcels? That's another very popular use for years now. [13:10] Ancient Shriner: Uncalled for Talarus [13:10] Talarus Luan: Accurate [13:10] Ancient Shriner: Uncivilized [13:10] Jack Linden: I'm thinking austin is afaster typist than I am :) Austin.. thanks for that, and if you can drop me that feedback on a notecard that would be helpful [13:10] Talarus Luan: Truth hurts. :) [13:10] PulseBurst Flow: whoa...the balls...a micro-land extortionist complianing about quality of life on thier land. [13:10] You: You can't be upset for the rep you get because of your actions, so what is it your going for here? [13:10] Fontte Newbold: Nah, that's a prepared statement, Jack. [13:10] Austin Hallard: will do jack, and yes i prepared it ahead of time :) [13:10] Fontte Newbold: Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V. :) [13:11] Timo Daehlie: strange perspective anyway.. [13:11] Austin Hallard: somebody needed to put forth the facts [13:11] Jack Linden: I would really prefer not to get into ad-farming or that whole debate this week. we've done it to death now and nothing has changed on our side [13:11] Talarus Luan: ..and we are still waiting [13:11] Rem Nightfire: you should be ashamed of your tactics austin [13:11] Fontte Newbold: I don't think you're going to have people "punished" for false ARs. [13:11] Talarus Luan: Why is that, Jack? [13:11] Dytska Vieria: What about ban lines on 16sqm for sale at 9999?? [13:11] You: Ok you sell thim lots along the road that are only large enough for one purpose. Your a great guy, point taken [13:11] Fontte Newbold: Because (1) they're not, and (2) there's better things to enforce with Linden time. [13:11] Timo Daehlie: he doesnt advertise at al l .. he only cuts to extort .. [13:11] Talarus Luan: What is it going to take to get some movement on this issue? [13:11] PulseBurst Flow: Jack..it's not ad farming if they don't put up ads. It's extortion farming. [13:12] Austin Hallard: linden lab has never heard the other side of the story, thats my point. the real facts. [13:12] Talarus Luan: Do you need 10,000 residents here at your OH? [13:12] Ancient Shriner: what if they don't sell at all? Ever? [13:12] Ancient Shriner: is THAT extortion? [13:12] Rem Nightfire: the dark side of the story [13:12] Arawn Spitteler: Advertising is worth something, as exemplified by those honest hardworking camp-bots, another subject we shouldn't belabor. [13:12] Qie Niangao: no, that's bankruptcy [13:12] Jack Linden: as we've been through before, we absolutely understand the issues here, and i have an inbox and inv full of really good feedback on this. [13:12] Flea Bussy is Offline [13:12] Ancient Shriner: only for people who can't figure out a business model Qie [13:13] You: So what other land related issues can we talk about today?
[13:13] Jack Linden: we are discussing it, we don't have anything we can share publicly, but as soon as we do, we will blog first of all [13:13] Fontte Newbold: The more important case to be made is said microparcels being raised to insane rates come at the direct expense of landowners in that native sim, and only have that sort of value being there in the first place. [13:13] Fontte Newbold: from being there ^ [13:13] Qie Niangao: (Ancient, we're probably talking past each other; I was talking about the extortion parcels not selling, and you were talking about ad plots. sorry for confusion) [13:13] Jack Linden: Dytska.. ban lines is an issue, I agree. we've seen a steep increase in that lately [13:14] Cytherea Eagle: We have the same rights under Ll TOS and TOC as anyone else in SL [13:14] Fontte Newbold: It's almost textbook griefing of the margins, unless you're being reasonable to them, or are setting rates that don't fall well outside the normal bounds of supply and demand. [13:14] Jack Linden: I would prefer ban lines to be something a resident can opt out of seeing [13:14] Talarus Luan: ..for the moment. [13:14] You: So then whats your problem? [13:14] Austin Hallard: this is my point, every week these griefers show up and raise the issue, sure its been talked to death, but only by them. [13:14] Dytska Vieria: well it's flying past the ban lines that my land surrounds that is the problem. [13:14] Timo Daehlie: hi cytherea ;) [13:14] You: You want the Lindens to make the community happy about what you do to them? [13:14] Fontte Newbold: I find your definition of "griefer" disturbing. :) [13:14] Talarus Luan: Well, you're hear talking it to death, now, too. :) [13:14] Talarus Luan: *here [13:14] Dytska Vieria is NOT a griefer. [13:15] Rem Nightfire: you are the greifer austin plain and simple [13:15] Cytherea Eagle: there are more better ways to protest than grief [13:15] Jack Linden: so. can we perhaps move onto something else? [13:15] Talarus Luan: We're not griefing here. We are talking. [13:15] PulseBurst Flow: OK..Jack.. [13:15] You: You choose to do what you do to the community and the mainland, so you should have no problem accepting the reputation you have gotten [13:15] Arawn Spitteler's said before: The only real Griefer has no sense of humor. [13:15] Chrischun Fassbinder: I thought we already had extortion, by charging high-prices for small parcels delt with, outlawed and being taken care of. Should make the issue of extortists existing mute, unless LL is finding it impossible to manage dealing with said people? [13:16] Fontte Newbold: Given the issue isn't getting much traction, I somewhat agree. It sounds to me like there should be a special session on the issue, specifically. [13:16] You: You want to fight about the terms you have gotten? You want to TOS changed to take away the names you dont like? [13:16] Cytherea Eagle: Hello Timo [13:16] Carly Looming: Hiya Morrigan ^^ [13:16] PulseBurst Flow: Hello Cytherea [13:16] Morrigan Liebling: hyia [13:16] Cytherea Eagle: Hello Pulse [13:17] You: You want to be liked do something good for the community and stop destroying the mainland [13:17] Arawn Spitteler is wondering how to promote tourist trap, of recent construction [13:17] Cytherea Eagle: Greetins Qie [13:17] Qie Niangao: greetings, Cytherea [13:17] Rem Nightfire: so about the roads jack, any thoughts on controlling ad towers along them? [13:17] Ancient Shriner: Arawn, use our ad networks, your traffic will increase if you offer something the community desires [13:17] Austin Hallard: jack said lets move on , so lets move on sarah, rem or you have difficulty understanding? [13:17] PulseBurst Flow: Sarah..it's cause the rules are insufficiant [13:17] Carricre Wind: control is a slippery slope [13:17] Rem Nightfire: cute [13:17] PulseBurst Flow: Lindens have to do more. [13:17] PulseBurst Flow: I think [13:18] You: I understand a dick when I see one? [13:18] Jack Linden: hehe Rem. not sure that's quite away from the topic but no.. we're not going to control what landowners choose to use their land for alongside roads, within the normal rules of course [13:18] Rem Nightfire: i understand you all too well austin [13:18] Cytherea Eagle: thats the key word...how far are we all ... even LL wanting to push "control" [13:18] Rem Nightfire: ok well maybe they should be rednamed to ad alleys or something [13:18] Fontte Newbold: It'd be handy if the LDPW planned for roadside advertising, instead of having ads being able to pop up at the margins. [13:18] Timo Daehlie: austin : you called me your lover in your land description .... is that griefing too ? [13:18] You: So there you got what you want Austin with the TOS, Lindens cant make residents happy about what you do [13:18] hanael Mills is Offline [13:18] Ancient Shriner: how is it ok for the Anti-ad folks to call what people say BS and call them dicks? [13:19] Ancient Shriner: I thought this place was for discussion, not insults [13:19] Talarus Luan: Well, Gambling has been controlled, "banking" has been controlled, pyramid scams have been controlled. Control is necessary when people can't seem to control themselves. [13:19] You: AR me for hurting your feelings [13:19] Jack Linden: Fontte, planning for it wouldn't really change the fact that landowners can elect to do what they wish [13:19] PulseBurst Flow: Jack, I'd say move on..but then again..this is a very unresolved issue.. [13:20] PulseBurst Flow: the actions in February..were insufficient [13:20] You: So are estate prices going to remain the same for awhile? [13:20] Dytska Vieria: I think a LL login survey or poll about add farms opinion would be nice to get a general feeling of the population as a whole. [13:20] Talarus Luan: Yeah, we can keep "moving on", but it will keep coming back. It's like a grid issue.. stamping "[RESOLVED]" on it won't make the underlying problem go away. [13:20] Carricre Wind: want them to tell you how you can dress your avatar too Talarus? I mean, where *should* it stop? [13:20] Chrischun Fassbinder: Good to clarification between advertising and extortion being made. Pulse, agreed more need to be done to curb those turning high profits from flipping of small parcels bought out of despiration. [13:20] Arawn Spitteler regards it as the sort of non-progressing issue, that gives Drama a bad name: I was also looking for that Guitar Construction video, if anyone remembers it. [13:20] Squirrel Wood: that survey would likely end up one-sided. against them. [13:21] Talarus Luan: If dressing my avatar causes the majority of residents grief (which can be done, I assure you), then yes. [13:21] Talarus Luan: In fact, the ToS already controls what you can wear in many places. [13:21] Austin Hallard: I saw an ad parcel (240 m aprox) sell in Bay City for over 100,000 L$. Either Linden Lab is in the extortion business or else these griefers have a screw loose. You decide. Its one or the other, it doesnt go both ways. [13:21] Fontte Newbold: Well Jack, it was more in the hopes that a form of compromise would come to the issue. As it exists now, it makes certain residents paranoid to know someone can "own" a parcel for a few pennies right next to their build and leach upon them. [13:21] Rem Nightfire: can LL put up a log in poll about ad towers jack? [13:21] Talarus Luan: Austin.. red herring. Bay City plots were auctioned. [13:21] Fontte Newbold: Or, in doing so, prevent them from buying more of the land in the sim. [13:22] Jack Linden: Fontte... I suspect that we will be at least partially addressing this by zoning, which we see as a natural part of our development to offer more choice about the kind of mainland experience people get [13:22] Chrischun Fassbinder: Fontte, if they're not allowed to sell at high prices, why would they wish to buy a large number of parcels in the same sim? [13:22] Fontte Newbold: Part of the problem is people who wish to expand operations on the mainland are unable to do so cleanly because of tiny parcels raised to unrealistic rates. [13:22] Fontte Newbold: Fair enough. [13:22] Austin Hallard: the problem isnt ads, its just a small handful of griefers who wont let the issue go even though it was fixed back in february. they have nothing else to do and theres also the issue that they simply want my land for free. [13:22] Talarus Luan: Zoning won't apply to over 4000 sims, Jack. [13:22] Jack Linden: so a zoned 'no advertising' area would be a way for people to choose to opt out of that fear [13:23] Jack Linden: Talarus, that depends. [13:23] You: So what do you suggest Austin? [13:23] Talarus Luan looks around "who wants Austin's land for free? Seriously, now?" [13:23] Carricre Wind: that's a suicidal way of thinking I feel Talarus, I mean, myself I pay a lot of money for my servers from LL, and frankly, I'll be damned if I'd let them tell me what I can and can't build on them, I'd simply cancel the subscription if it came to that [13:23] Fontte Newbold: The thing is, Chrischun, it's not "a large number of parcels in the same sim", so much as "a large number of the minimum size directly in the path of development" [13:23] Jack Linden: applying zoning retrospectively is very hard, it's something we are thinking about [13:23] Squirrel Wood: open mike... [13:23] Jack Linden: (someone has their mic open by the way.. i hear much typing) [13:24] Talarus Luan: Well, considering that the zoning, as you have mentioned it, will apply only to new mainland (in theory, admittedly), it kinda goes without saying that the 4000+ existing sims will turn into a wasteland [13:24] You: Austin do you have real issue here to discuss other then the fact that you dont like the reputation you have built for yourself? Lindens cant fix that [13:24] Fontte Newbold: Anyway, re, zoning: It's more or less inevitable for shared land. [13:24] Austin Hallard: zoning requires enforcement, what a waste of time and money. i suggest enforcing the TOS as it stands against these anti-ad protesters. they have numerous TOS violations on their record, lets just get rid of them so we can forget the issue [13:24] Chrischun Fassbinder: Fontte, yes or time passes and they end up in the middle of people's land, that's land flux for you. I swap for locations less in people's way, know other legit advertisders who do the same, those we ask L$ to be bought out are the problem, not those trying to provide useful services. [13:24] You: You buy roadside lots, dump the large section below cost and set the 16 meter wide part against the road high. [13:25] Talarus Luan: Carricre.. are your servers private estates? [13:25] Fontte Newbold: These are pretty much why real-world cities are all zoned and have very specific rules regarding builds. Which sucks for taking away freedoms, but prevents some of the more obvious "open" and "nefarious" misuses of land. [13:25] Carricre Wind: yep, they are
[13:25] Talarus Luan: Then none of this applies to you [13:25] Talarus Luan: This is all about mainland [13:25] You: Thats your solution Austin? Get rid of the majority of the community so a few ad lot dealers and cutters can live happily? [13:25] Talarus Luan: Private estates are yours. [13:25] Austin Hallard: more places like bay city gives an option for those who want something thats tightly controlled. [13:25] Rem Nightfire: lets get rid of land extortionists [13:26] Austin Hallard: for the rest of us, we like the mainland BECAUSE OF THE FREEDOM [13:26] Carricre Wind: and exactly how long before "mainland" only rules become rules on private islands? I say it matters a lot to me [13:26] PulseBurst Flow: yes..Rem, I agree. [13:26] Talarus Luan: Mainland is a "Commons", and what is being committed here is a Tragedy of the Commons. [13:26] Drongle McMahon: Austin, perhaps you wou;d care to tell us who buys your high-priced parcels and what you condider motivates them to do so? [13:26] Timo Daehlie: helping harmless residents i wouldnt not consider as a tos violation .. [13:26] Austin Hallard: i dont answer to you [13:26] You: Then go have fun with that freedom and stop crying because people think your scum because of the way you abuse that freedom [13:26] Talarus Luan: They won't, because you are the estate manager and what you say goes on your land. [13:26] Austin Hallard: im here to talk to jack [13:26] Timo Daehlie: how kind .. [13:26] PulseBurst Flow: get a room [13:26] Drongle McMahon: I thought you were here to discuss [13:27] Carricre Wind: really? I can run a casino on my islands? or a bank? [13:27] Carricre Wind smiles [13:27] Fontte Newbold: Ouch. [13:27] Cytherea Eagle: yawn [13:27] Talarus Luan: True, you still have to answer to the ToS, but the changes being asked for are *specifically* targetting the mainland. [13:27] kimmy5186 Wind is Offline [13:27] Jack Linden: so. i'm going out on a limb here and suggesting we might not all agree on this one. perhaps we can move onto other topics? [13:27] Talarus Luan: If you or any of the ad network peeps here what to make a private estate full of ads, that's cool. [13:27] Rem Nightfire: haha [13:28] Carricre Wind: yes, currently, but given that it won't take long before it becomes grid wide, I'm suing for sanity [13:28] Talarus Luan: So are we [13:28] Rem Nightfire: log in poll jack - on ad towers? [13:28] Chrischun Fassbinder: Talarus, way to blur the line between extortists and legit advertisers. Keep it up! [13:28] Talarus Luan: The present situation is insane [13:28] Arawn Spitteler's sure that Jack has heard Austin, and Telerus too: It might be funny, at SL6B, if Telerus gets a 4X4, with a large spinning pink megasign announcing, "This Lot AVailable for ONLY L$100,000,000" [13:28] PulseBurst Flow: So, Jack..about roads...Lindens auto-rez trees on new land..then auction it..new owners can clear trees..but not trees in road..which might never be built. [13:28] Talarus Luan: Will do, Chris. :D [13:28] Fontte Newbold: It's been a topic running for over three years. Suffice it to say people will continue to not agree so long as their plots can be "griefed" on the margins. :p [13:28] You: You guys havent made snow sims in ages. Any more of them coming in the future? [13:28] kimmy5186 Wind is Online [13:28] Drongle McMahon: Jack. As Austin declines to answer my question, I invite you to condsider the reasons yourself. [13:29] Jack Linden: Pulse.. correct. the tree thing is awkward. the autoplanter script is a bit ermm eager sometimes. [13:29] Fontte Newbold: Didn't the Snow Sims die because people had devalued them? [13:29] Fontte Newbold: I seem to recall them for going below market rate. [13:29] Austin Hallard: drongle, i ignored yoru question because you are a griefer and need to be ejected from sl and are not worthy of an answer [13:29] Qie Niangao: hehehe... I know two roadway trees within 0.5m of each other [13:29] PulseBurst Flow: yes..and support..depending on who you get..won't clear, or make it like a big favor..and don't ask again [13:29] You: since value on them has gone up a lot if you can find good clean ad free snow its more valuable than green [13:30] Jack Linden: Snow sims did drop at one point, though now they have come back as there are relatively few of them compared to the mainland [13:30] You: I'm sorry but you know its funny when an ad lot cutter argues ethics in sl [13:30] Drongle McMahon: Austin, You have never met me and have no justification for gratuitous insult. I asked you a polite question. [13:30] PulseBurst Flow: I was told "just cause I'm a nice guy, but don't ask for this sort of thing again" [13:30] Jack Linden: snow regions always make me shiver but they are super pretty in places [13:30] PulseBurst Flow: cause damn scripted tree-spitter Lindens use leaves trees in right of way [13:31] Fontte Newbold: Ohhh yes, they are. [13:31] Fontte Newbold: Perhaps put out the question for them on the blog? [13:31] Dytska Vieria: If megaprims are eventually allowed, what is to prevent an add farmer to create a 4x4x100m tower? [13:31] Jack Linden: The first time i used the tree planter in anger, i managed to carpetbomb 3 regions with so many trees that they ran out of prims. and of course you can't group select them [13:31] Jack Linden: that was a looong night [13:31] PulseBurst Flow: lol [13:31] Carricre Wind finds it funny when a lot of people cry out "we want our rights, so limit someone elses" (hates ad farmers too, it's why she left the mainland long ago) [13:31] Talarus Luan: Doh [13:31] Qie Niangao: Dytska, I've got a 4x4x80m fullbright tower next door. it's lovely [13:32] Qie Niangao weeps [13:32] Timo Daehlie: Jack .. will there be a dutch version of llc's official website in future ? a lot of our people still have diffciculties woth foreign languages .. [13:32] Talarus Luan: Don't want to limit "rights", we want to limit abuse of said rights. [13:32] Carricre Wind: wow, tree bombs, that could be a fun idea..... [13:32] Timo Daehlie: woth=wtih [13:32] You: You might want to talk to Yohan Pintens he has a cool planting system now for landmachine that randomly plants 30 plants per 1024 [13:32] Fontte Newbold: Carricre: Well, when those rights are zero-sum, as in the case of parcel [ab]use, that tends to happen. ;) [13:32] You: It's an awesoem tool [13:32] Jack Linden: Timo, great question. we're just completing some translation work on various bits of the website.. and have a solution for translating the knowledgebase too [13:33] Chrischun Fassbinder: Qie, is it for sale? Have you contacted them to swap? If they're trying to sell for much more than going just AR them, right cause that's extortion bringing in their returns, not advertising. [13:33] Carricre Wind: got an LM for that Sarah? [13:33] Jack Linden: so i expect you'll see a lot more localised content over Q3 [13:33] Austin Hallard: Jack i think it would be much better if the linden roadways had no trees at all. Often they encroach on residents land , which then becomes a support issue. [13:33] Timo Daehlie: great ! ;) [13:33] Rem Nightfire: hahahahaha [13:33] Qie Niangao: unfortunately it's only L$320... yes, I could buy it, but then it just moves to the next one, and the next one. I AR'd it, but no response. [13:33] Fontte Newbold: I wonder how well Google translates those pages. [13:33] You: I have a landmark for landmachine.com but youd need to talk to him directly if its just about the planter [13:33] Jack Linden: Austin, yes they can be a problem but we get a lot of requests for trees. i mean, a lot, on any Gov Linden land [13:34] Morrigan Liebling: for translations in google: not very well [13:34] Jack Linden: and hand planting them would be too slow [13:34] Dytska Vieria: How about making some NEW tree designs? [13:34] Rem Nightfire: how many requests for ad towers? [13:34] Morrigan Liebling: it's word for word, literally [13:34] Carricre Wind accepted your inventory offer. [13:34] PulseBurst Flow: I agree..no trees in roads [13:34] Carricre Wind: ah, thanks Sarah :) [13:34] Fontte Newbold: Well, the script can and should be able to detect encroachment issues o_O [13:34] Chrischun Fassbinder: right, doing the trick of having only one or few for sale at lower but still high prices, with lots waiting to get cut or already cut and going up. So that's the real problem? near impossible with current rules to ban extortists hiding as fake advertisers because too many loop holes? [13:34] You: You really should look at what he has its really fun. You drop a prim and it goes off on its own and plants its qouta and then dies [13:34] Timo Daehlie: it works on waterfront too ;) [13:35] Jack Linden: sarah, who has that? [13:35] Fontte Newbold: I've written a few of those, Sarah. They are fun. :D [13:35] You: Yohan Pintens [13:35] Austin Hallard: chrischun are your ads still for sale for 10000 L$? [13:35] Jack Linden: hmm, interesting [13:35] Fontte Newbold: Including one that planted trees in "seed groups" to make the effect more realistic. [13:35] You: I have one I can show you but its not trans. I could show you on a lot though [13:35] Qie Niangao: Chrischun, I'm at a loss at this point to know what the "real problem" is. it just pops up wherever one pushes.
[13:35] Jack Linden: how rapid is it? we often have 50+ regions to do in one go [13:36] Fontte Newbold: Are you guys still using Ben's planter? [13:36] Chrischun Fassbinder: Nope, haven't sold any since LL outlawed selling of microparcels for high prices. Not worth my time, so now I just swap at my own cost of time Feel free to visit, http://www.mlghk.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=8c06a47eba924b4eedbab5c... if you need a swap. [13:36] You: Takes a few moments but all that you need to do is drag it from inventory and move on and your done [13:36] Squirrel Wood: terraforming? I terraform sims. even multiple sims. :p
[13:36] You: If you have landmachine you dont even need to do that much [13:37] Chrischun Fassbinder: Qie, the real problem is extortists still finding it profitable to flip-microparcels out of despiration sales. [13:37] Rem Nightfire: its outlawed to sell small plots for high prices? wht isnt austin in the pokey? [13:37] Austin Hallard: there is nothing regulating prices of land chrischun, the ad farm blog simply made it so you cant sell your land with your mr lee ad on it [13:37] Austin Hallard: or your diaper bags [13:37] Drongle McMahon: It's not outlawed....only in association with advertisments. [13:38] Rem Nightfire: ah too bad [13:38] GnuSense Shepherd: Would you like a complimentary DiaperBag? [13:38] Chrischun Fassbinder: Yet another loop hole, they'll just put something use annoying on the land that isn't an ad. [13:38] Chrischun Fassbinder: else annoying [13:38] PulseBurst Flow: like ban lines [13:38] Rem Nightfire: like k mans turd rocks [13:38] Chrischun Fassbinder: Right, like ban lines. [13:38] You: I like ban lines a lot more than ads personally [13:39] You: I think if you took away the red ban lines people would be happy [13:39] Fontte Newbold: Banlines are definitely in style. [13:39] You: still allow banning just take away the ugly wall
[13:39] Fontte Newbold: It'd be nice to disallow banlines on a 16m. That seems like one fair compromise. [13:39] Fontte Newbold: I still want the ability to ignore parcels as well. :x [13:39] Qie Niangao: Sarah, not for microparcels... there's no conceivable reason roadside or embedded parcels under 256sq.m. need banlines. [13:39] Dytska Vieria: You would think differently if you had land surrounding the banlines and crash in to them all the time. [13:40] Drongle McMahon: What can be the point of banlines on a 16m plot? [13:40] GnuSense Shepherd: Agreed Qie [13:40] Jack Linden: making ban lines toggled is definitely possible [13:40] Chrischun Fassbinder: Jack, why hasn't LL used the most commonly suggested, for years now, solution, which is to set a maximum per meter sale price for smaller sized parcels? [13:40] Jack Linden: and probably quite easy [13:40] You: If you didnt see the red flasshing wall then why would it natter if they banned? [13:40] Jack Linden: liek parcel lines [13:40] You: matter* [13:40] Jack Linden: *like [13:40] Dytska Vieria: I like the listing fee as a percentage of the parcel price. [13:41] PulseBurst Flow: yes, the problem also..4x4 s that are not contiguous..are grouped.to evade any rules might come up. [13:41] Dytska Vieria: LL charges for group listings.... [13:41] Jack Linden: Chrischun, because we would rather not interfere with the land market in that way [13:41] You: You could still have privacy without pissing off the neighbors with a flashing wall [13:41] PulseBurst Flow: we all know..and people right here do it [13:41] Qie Niangao: Sarah, banlines make vehicles even harder to use than otherwise, on roads, and just get in the way when they're in the middle of your parcel and you have to navigate around them. [13:41] Austin Hallard: all your answers involve restrictions, curtailing rights and freedoms. chrischun is just here to try pushing his monopoly idea for his guild. you will never get it cc. [13:41] You: You dont have to drive threw peoples yards [13:41] Fontte Newbold: I suspect if a cap were ever set you'd end up with certain people that put a donation box on the land with a preset price, in lieu of sale through the normal system :x [13:42] You: Planes go above ban lines [13:42] Drongle McMahon: jack. That is an impossible claim ... you control tier ... that has the greatest effect on the land market. [13:42] You: raods are linden owned [13:42] Chrischun Fassbinder: Jack, understandable, but the land market, least mainland, is suffering far more interferance from failing to act on the wide spread blight caused by small parcels designed to grief sale. [13:42] Qie Niangao: Sarah, have you tried driving the roads in H4? one is lucky to make it across a sim border intact, let alone on the road. [13:43] Fontte Newbold: What Qie said ^ [13:43] Jack Linden: Oh i don't say we don't control land market to some degree, but we'd rather not control it in that way. many people do own 16m parcels, for good reasons, and suddenly restricting their sell on price isn't something we want to do [13:43] You: Being able to drive on other peoples propertys is more important than privacy? [13:43] Qie Niangao: for a microparcel? *what* privacy??? [13:43] Dytska Vieria: well, don't restrict it, charge a listing fee. [13:43] Carricre Wind: that wouldn't be an issue if connected servers (read:regions) used distributed processing [13:43] Fontte Newbold: I do think restricting their banlines or offering the ability to selectively ignore property is the compromise. Or one of the easier ones. [13:44] Drongle McMahon: Agreed .. there are legitimate users. [13:44] Carricre Wind: the vehicle thinkg I mean [13:44] Carricre Wind: ^thing [13:44] Jack Linden: Dytska,that would just be a sales tax effectively, so has the same effect [13:44] You: Yea theres no need to ban on a 16, but I do think taking away the uglay ban walls would be a huge improvment [13:44] Dytska Vieria: I pay for group listings every week. [13:44] You: Just make them invisable [13:44] Drongle McMahon: But Sarah ... you still crash into them. [13:45] You: I can win then, because thats the only suggestion I have [13:45] PulseBurst Flow: Sarah..there are people who have mainland who want to allow public access..privacy is not an issue..but cut up and scattered ban lines littering the sim, for people to bump into..is a problem [13:45] Squirrel Wood: take them away as in invisible and people will wonder why they cannot enter the parcel [13:45] Austin Hallard: how about using good looking signs chrischun/ancient shriner? maybe if you put up better looking signs then people wouldnt mind so much. [13:45] Cytherea Eagle: you don't see them unless you are right up on them anyway. Maybe you should file an AR wil LL that it is extorting your view. [13:45] Dytska Vieria: And those certain "4 CORNERS" 16sqm parcels with bonus banlines are a real mess to navigate out of. [13:45] Ciaran Laval: They get a message, ban lines are a griefing tool [13:46] Talarus Luan: Pretty easy to fix... no banlines allowed on any parcel smaller than X size. *shrug* They just don't work. [13:46] Fontte Newbold: Re, that blatant attack on better looking signs: People don't like flashing billboard ads and eyegrabbers. [13:46] Qie Niangao: yeah, i've seen terraforming as griefing, too. [13:46] Chrischun Fassbinder: Austin, I'm always interested in suggestions along those lines, feel free to drop me a note with your suggestions. :) [13:46] You: bumping is an inconvenience but not a huge problem or as bad as red flashing CAN NOT ENTER over and over [13:46] PulseBurst Flow: Cythera..would you object if they make ban lines invisible? or would you support that? [13:46] Fontte Newbold: It's why Google does so well. [13:46] Fontte Newbold: Text ads and text search. [13:46] Fontte Newbold: But eh. [13:46] Chrischun Fassbinder: Because much of the web is text based. [13:47] Fontte Newbold: Shouldn't the Search system deprecate the need to have ad farms anyway? o_O [13:47] Ciaran Laval: Ad farms aren't abouts ads [13:47] Cytherea Eagle: I have no opinion on the matter Pulse [13:47] Fontte Newbold: (If it were working...) [13:47] Talarus Luan: One would think [13:47] Ancient Shriner: Visual display advertising works . . . just go into any large city . . . there is no replacement for it [13:47] Austin Hallard: Jack what about these signs used by the ad guild? they seem very heavy on lag. all that metrics, seems a little overdone [13:47] PulseBurst Flow: ok..thanks..well, something to think abou [13:48] Fontte Newbold: There was another thread on the forums talking about tying script scheduling to parcel ownership. [13:48] Ancient Shriner: Austin, I'll take any lag test you wish and prove to you beyone any doubt that our few hundred lines of code cause no appreciable lag to a sim [13:48] Austin Hallard: 1 never get lag along roadsides until i bump into one of chrischuns signs [13:48] Fontte Newbold: I happen to like that idea. [13:48] Melodie Darwin: what about using sensors in their ads that count the neighbors who are stuck next to them? Its spying [13:48] Chrischun Fassbinder: Ciaran, agreed "ad farms" are not about ads, or they wouldn't have a bunch of ads all together in one area. Wide distributed advertising works when it's a selective location, with one or at most a couple locations within a sim. Again, clear difference exists between legit advertising and those hiding beind advertising as an excuse to flip microparcels for high prices. [13:48] Jack Linden: Audtin, i'm not aware of how much script use etc any particular sign causes. if there is one that you're concerned about, drop me the region and coords [13:48] Ancient Shriner: Hear Hear! [13:49] Jack Linden: *Austin [13:49] Chrischun Fassbinder: Austin, how can you bump into my ads? They're all phantom. :) [13:49] You: I would think advertising in busy clubs and high traffic areas would be a lot more effective than advertisng to the few people who live around the ad lot [13:49] Talarus Luan: If that were true, then why don't you all take a page from that playbook. There are sims I see 2, 3, more of TAG's billboards. [13:49] Austin Hallard: because the whole world starts to lag and sputter near your sign cc. [13:49] Talarus Luan: Qie's Route 1 tour showed it very well. [13:50] Ancient Shriner: That's patently false Austin [13:50] Austin Hallard: it doesnt happen near cythereas signs or empire advertising, or any of the others [13:50] Ancient Shriner: I'll bet you hard currency you are incorrect Austin [13:50] Chrischun Fassbinder: Sarah, yes that's another form of main land distrubuted advertising that works as well. I'm sure you know, running a Freebie Warehouse as well, (nice name isn't it) that I run ads at mine with good results targeted towards newer residents. [13:50] Arawn Spitteler: Client Server o rConnection LAg? [13:50] Cytherea Eagle: my signs are 75% passive [13:50] Talarus Luan: meh.. you mean the lag-inducing temp-rezzers monstrosities? Puh-leeze [13:50] Ancient Shriner: we have no temp-rezzor monstrosities [13:50] Ancient Shriner: point one one [13:50] Ancient Shriner: out [13:50] Talarus Luan: Talking to Austin, Ancient [13:50] Fontte Newbold: Difference is those areas are opt-in, Chrischun. People have less qualms about those unless they're selling freebies. :p [13:51] You: advertisng within buildings doesnt effect the surrounding area either. [13:51] Cytherea Eagle: those were beta test models [13:51] Cytherea Eagle: 2.3 will be no tor [13:51] Dytska Vieria: Advertising in Search doesn't cause blight either [13:51] Talarus Luan: Well, those are the only ones I see everywhere [13:51] Ciaran Laval: Advertising in search doesn't cause much at all unless you pay a shed load of Lindens [13:52] Austin Hallard: i spend more time along the roadsides than any of you , so i can clearly say i get no lag near cythereas signs [13:52] Dytska Vieria: says who? I get a lot of hits [13:52] Ancient Shriner: That's a good way to advertiser and we're releasing that system very soon . . . it's a lot of work in testing [13:52] Chrischun Fassbinder: Fontte, yes I understand you feel certain residents should be able to decide what their neighbors build and do with their land, I do not. So it goes, freedom of the mainland is nice like that. [13:52] Ancient Shriner: other people who tied it quit because they couldn't handle the traffic [13:52] Talarus Luan: I LIVE next to one, Austin, and it lags as much as any of them [13:52] You: Yea I can agree you often on roadsides cutting land to sell to ad dealers [13:52] Fontte Newbold: Well, people would have disagreed back three years ago on not blighting search (back when ads started cropping up on the Events Calendar), but in general, yeah. :P [13:52] Kenny Stringer is Online [13:52] kimmy5186 Wind is Online [13:52] Cytherea Eagle: I am a webmaster as well so I advertise RL items so LL search does nothing for my business [13:52] hippoRENT Rental Box 4.1 Slums of NErdville: Rental Box @ Slums of Nerdville 64, 158, 23 - Oi Meili paid L$550. They now have 9 days, 0 hours, 19 minutes and 39 seconds remaining on their rental. [13:53] Talarus Luan: It also displays porn ads, and malware sites [13:53] Qie Niangao: Well, I suppose when the Big Announcement is that Ansche won the contract for managing the Mainland Estate, it will be a different debate. ;) [13:53] Arawn Spitteler: It would be nice, if the Flooding were removed from Events [13:53] Talarus Luan: Boy, Qie, that WILL be a mixed bag [13:53] Austin Hallard: i personally would rather see an ad for playboy than soemthing for diaper bags or visits to hong kong lol [13:53] Ancient Shriner: Yah, you'll have to learn Chinese to get any customer service [13:53] Fontte Newbold: Chrischun: Naw. I think residents should be able to do whatever the heck they want with their parcels, conformant only to a few guidelines that prevent that use from encroaching on the use of another paying party. [13:53] Ciaran Laval: Qie she won't like having to charge VAT so I don't see that happening! [13:53] Fontte Newbold: The question is separability of those rights, not so much the fact they exist. [13:54] DjKeveros Radek is Offline [13:54] Fontte Newbold: Like having plots being able to use all the script time for a sim -- that's unacceptable. [13:54] Talarus Luan: Well, Austin, just ask your buddy Cytherea to put up 10 of her ad displays next to your home. Then you can have ALL the porn and malaware ads served in your face that you want. :D [13:54] Timo Daehlie: i would like to see a tier per parcel system [13:54] You: I have an estate related question. How much longer are grandfathered sims going to keep a 100 dollar lower tier? It makes it harder for newer estate owners to compete when the playing field is so uneven [13:54] Ancient Shriner: As long as they give script cycles by square meter, that would be fine [13:55] Fontte Newbold: Agree ^
[13:55] Chrischun Fassbinder: Someday we can only hope that becomes possible. [13:55] Jack Linden: Sarah: we've no plans to change that. we review it every quarter as part of my usual end of Q land blog post [13:55] Carricre Wind: the grandfathered sims are also light on resources, one would think that's a factor [13:55] Qie Niangao: (agree on script cycles. not crazy about the weird "script count" thing that seems to be all over SLDev) [13:55] Fontte Newbold: renice process * parcel amount of this resident :p [13:56] Jack Linden: the class 4s that have upgraded have moved to normal monthly fees [13:56] You: I thought all the class 3's were updated [13:56] Fontte Newbold: I mean, it's not *that* hard to do. [13:56] Jack Linden: there are no class 3s any more [13:56] You: I didnt think so [13:56] Ancient Shriner: Qie, there are already throttles inplace that allow more or less cycles for scripts . . that's on the Sim side. . . so there is a 'Budget' of cycles that could be split evenly across the 65000 square meters [13:56] You: I want 200 dollar tier too [13:57] Dytska Vieria: I would like to see tier increments from 1 sim to 1 sim + 512, + 1024, 2048, etc... [13:57] Ancient Shriner: I agree with Dytska, from 1 to 1.5 sims seems like a steep jump to me [13:57] Carricre Wind: shame that we estate managers can't control those throttles though, would be nice to set priorities by script owner, so that say the sim owners scripts don't fail because a visitor was messing about [13:57] Cytherea Eagle: yawn [13:57] Qie Niangao: (yes... well, the VM scheduler needs to be overhauled anyway... it's just weird how they're talking about it now: stopping rezzing of scripted objects when quota is reached. sorry, deeply off-topic here.) [13:58] You: yea that would be nice. I hate getting bumped up half a sim even I go 512 over [13:58] Austin Hallard: changing the tier in that manner you might destroy the land rental businesses [13:58] Talarus Luan: Yeah, a large percentage of script lag comes from avatars [13:58] Fontte Newbold: Sarah: Sounds like it's time to start an alt. [13:58] Texture Assistant v1.01 PRO: Amberly Whitfield just tried to take textures from me. [13:58] Fontte Newbold: <_< >_> [13:58] Texture Assistant v1.01 PRO: Amberly Whitfield just tried to take textures from me. [13:58] Jack Linden: so guys, we're at the end of my hour. next week i reserve the right to ban anyone discussing ad farming or related topics. :) [13:58] You: I hate alts, I spend to much time on myself to develop new persobalitys [13:58] Ancient Shriner: :-) [13:58] PulseBurst Flow: lol [13:58] GnuSense Shepherd: lol ok [13:59] Carricre Wind: heh [13:59] Rem Nightfire: haha [13:59] Ciaran Laval: If you did that owning 1 and a half sims would cost more than it does now [13:59] Texture Assistant v1.01 PRO: Amberly Whitfield just tried to take textures from me. [13:59] Austin Hallard: Thanks Jack [13:59] Carricre Wind: crap, and I didn't even get to my question :) [13:59] Qie Niangao: thanks for hosting, Jack [13:59] You: Thank You [13:59] Ciaran Laval: Cheers Jack [13:59] Carricre Wind: ah well, was fun regardless :) [13:59] Rem Nightfire: thank you jack [13:59] Timo Daehlie: thx jack ! [13:59] Fontte Newbold: Jack: Put "Ashes of Ad Farmers" up on your desk. [13:59] Jack Linden: i'll be honest, i'm not sure you're getting good value out of me by going through this argument each week. there isn't any more that i can say that i haven't already said [13:59] Ancient Shriner: Thanks again Jack, we need to get you a black and white striped referee shirt [13:59] Ciaran Laval: Stop having your office hours when the footie is on! [13:59] Arawn Spitteler: There's an idea, we could have profiles in inventory, to file with different outfits [13:59] Fontte Newbold: And right next to it: "Ashes of Ad Farm Debaters" [14:00] Cytherea Eagle: I think that rule applies to all involved [14:00] Texture Assistant v1.01 PRO: Amberly Whitfield just tried to take textures from me. [14:00] Squirrel Wood: Have an agenda for this hour ? [14:00] Texture Assistant v1.01 PRO: Amberly Whitfield just tried to take textures from me. [14:00] Jack Linden: perhaps you need a weekly venue of your own to debate this. i'd be happy to come visit it. [14:00] You: Sorry for being a pain Jack, its just a subject we feel really strongly about [14:00] You: Next week we will behave [14:00] ROBO Marx: sounds good jack [14:00] PulseBurst Flow: Jack..or maybe seperate meetings [14:00] Austin Hallard: I agree with Jack, and it was in my statement. Seems unfair these protesters do this crap each week. [14:00] Carricre Wind: I'd let y'all have a place to debate on my sim, but, perhaps that's inviting disaster :) [14:00] PulseBurst Flow: so it's less contentious [14:00] Rem Nightfire: yawn [14:00] Qie Niangao: i have a nice parcel surrounded by adfarms if we need a venue ;) [14:00] Talarus Luan: That's what protesters do.. protest. [14:01] Jack Linden: seriously. there are both sides represented here. self organise yourselves to debate this properly, and i will try to attend [14:01] Fontte Newbold: I'd love at least one town hall on the issue looping in Robin, but that's just me. [14:01] You: You brought it up Austin but alright [14:01] GnuSense Shepherd: Thanks again Jack [14:01] Ciaran Laval: Well if the 16m parcel extortionists would behave themselves there would be no need for a debate [14:01] PulseBurst Flow: Jack.. [14:01] Ancient Shriner: We already have Advertiser Guild meetings [14:01] PulseBurst Flow: we don't need to debate [14:01] PulseBurst Flow: people are here to contact LIndens..you [14:01] Ancient Shriner: we could expand that to include time for free-for-all public debate [14:01] Arawn Spitteler: Let's sponsor a debate, on the subject, and have it attended by Alexandria and Workingonit Linden [14:01] You: Any issues people have there heart in will get rough [14:01] Talarus Luan: I think he meant a debate outside of your own circle of "friends". [14:01] Fontte Newbold: I think you're going to want a neutral location." [14:02] Fontte Newbold: Say, Stage 4? [14:02] Chrischun Fassbinder: Cordova Sandbox, High Noon. :) [14:02] Ancient Shriner: Lol [14:02] Fontte Newbold: No one's really using it any more :p [14:02] Ancient Shriner: Pistols or Swords? [14:02] Rem Nightfire: haha [14:02] Carricre Wind: battleships [14:02] Ancient Shriner: hahahahaa [14:02] Arawn Spitteler: We could set something up in Spirit City, maybe on our new famous bridge [14:02] You: You sank my battleship! [14:02] kimmy5186 Wind is Online [14:02] Squirrel Wood: sandbox? May as well go and invite them griefers too :p [14:02] Carricre Wind: arrrr! [14:02] Chrischun Fassbinder: Does make me wish SL Boxing was still big, be some great matches for a themed night. [14:02] Squirrel Wood: so they can lolcube you to death [14:03] Jack Linden: if you guys ever did agree on a stgep forward for all sides, that would be something I would really want to take notice of. :) [14:03] Fontte Newbold: But Squirrel, the griefers are already invited by definition. [14:03] Jack Linden: *step [14:03] You: I have a mud fight set we could use [14:03] Dytska Vieria stands next to the dragon for safety [14:03] PinkFluffy Bailey is Online [14:03] Carricre Wind: death matches to determine who's right, best scripter wins? [14:03] Talarus Luan: Would be a hard thing, Jack. There are many contested issues that no side will ever come off of. [14:03] Ancient Shriner: We put that one forward last meeting Carricre [14:03] Carricre Wind: did I win? [14:04] Fontte Newbold: I think it's hard to disagree on the removal of 16m banlines and enhanced controls for the client. [14:04] Kenny Stringer is Offline [14:04] Talarus Luan: It is why we are here, because we have already tried mediation amongst ourselves [14:04] Ancient Shriner: Battlebots in an Arena Deathmatch [14:04] Jack Linden: okays goodbye all. have a great week. i shall be here next week. [14:04] Rem Nightfire: bye jack [14:04] Austin Hallard: bye jack [14:04] Ancient Shriner: Cya Jack, have a good week too [14:04] Fontte Newbold: o/ [14:04] Sarah Nerd waves [14:04] Carricre Wind: the only winning move, you know, is not to play ;) [14:04] Talarus Luan: Exactly. [14:04] Fontte Newbold: Now maybe I can go un-Ruth my viewer. [14:04] Talarus Luan: ..and even that isn't an option [14:04] Qie Niangao: hmmm... that's not what my state lottery says. ;) [14:04] Carricre Wind: LIES! [14:04] Qie Niangao: :p [14:05] kimmy5186 Wind is Offline [14:05] PinkFluffy Bailey is Offline [14:05] Arawn Spitteler: To win any game, sell tickets. Even Drama goes to dust, when Ticket Sales drop [14:05] Fontte Newbold: Nope. That's one bad Ruth job. Right back :| [14:06] Carricre Wind: anyone using the RC? [14:06] Qie Niangao: I am, Carricre... [14:06] Qie Niangao: on Linux [14:06] Arawn Spitteler: RC-10? [14:06] Talarus Luan: Only as a last resort. :P [14:06] Drongle McMahon: me [14:06] Qie Niangao: when it's not freezing. [14:06] Dytska Vieria: Nicholaz [14:06] Carricre Wind: noticed how the Ruths have become a little glowy orb? [14:06] Qie Niangao: yep [14:06] Carricre Wind: that is totally awesome [14:06] PulseBurst Flow: yes, that is new Ruth [14:06] Qie Niangao: I keep meaning to make a little glowy orb avatar [14:06] Sarah Nerd waves [14:06] You: later guys [14:06] Talarus Luan: I have one. :D [14:06] Qie Niangao: bye, Sarah [14:06] Talarus Luan: Take care, Sarah :) [14:06] PulseBurst Flow: bye Sara [14:06] Timo Daehlie: ciao sarah ;) [14:07] Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Linden%20Estate%20Services/160/116/38