User:Which Linden/Office Hours/2008 Jan 3

Transcript of Which Linden's office hours:

[10:59]	Which Linden:	what it is!
[10:59]	Ice Brodie:	huh? o.o
[11:00]	Which Linden:	just sayin' hello  :-)
[11:00]	Cancelled Sit
[11:00]	Ice Brodie:	heyya n.n
[11:00]	Which Linden:	how are you doing on this fine day?
[11:00]	Ice Brodie:	doing alright, working on stuff for ibMapper and need to get back into the loop on SL's underlying systems... so I've been trying to hit office hours.
[11:01]	Which Linden:	cool!
[11:01]	Ice Brodie:	yeah, talking with James about the web search feature over e-mail too... though that's slow x.x
[11:01]	Which Linden:	heh
[11:02]	Which Linden:	gonna get my old transcripts up while we wait for more folks
[11:03]	Ice Brodie:	ok
[11:03]	Ice Brodie:	do you know if search_proxy.php for the web based search is on the LL or S3 server cluster?
[11:04]	Which Linden:	I'd assume on our server cluster since you can't execute php on s3
[11:05]	Ice Brodie:	ahh, kay, I'll have to keep seach load minimal though.
[11:06]	Ice Brodie:	James said keep it under 5 profiles a second, and I actually would be lower than a user level load because I'm not going for icons or the JS with the world part...
[11:06]	Which Linden:	Hm, but the icons and js are probably served up by S3 anyhow
[11:06]	Ice Brodie:	I'm thinking of initially making a proxy for search_proxy and testing that way
[11:06]	Ice Brodie:	yeah they are, but it's still more bandwidth LL has to pay for
[11:06]	Which Linden:	true
[11:07]	Ice Brodie:	the 5 per second probably takes that into account... I'm gonna throttle to 1 per second initially and keep in contact with him early on.
[11:07]	Ice Brodie:	ideally I want to tag my stuff in a way that'd let LL form a report of how much bandwidth I'm wasting...
[11:08]	Which Linden:	Yeah, that'd be cool.
[11:08]	Which Linden:	What's the application that you're doing all these searches for?
[11:08]	Ice Brodie:	I try to already, ibMapper is the client ID I use when I send stuff from my server.
[11:09]	Ice Brodie:	usually just the libraries available through PHP, I try to use one where I can customize the client tag.
[11:09]	Ice Brodie:	client's gonna be ibMapper whenever I can help it, simular to googlebot
[11:09]	Ice Brodie:	right now I'm just poking at stuff, while I figure out details.
[11:09]	Ice Brodie:	ibMapper Overlord's set up with how I'm going to read profiles...
[11:11]	Which Linden:	I'm a little vague on what ibMapper does... could you tell me a quick summary?
[11:17]	Ice Brodie:	it's a cartography and statistics suite
[11:17]	Which Linden:	ah, at secondlifeservers.com
[11:17]	Ice Brodie:	yep
[11:18]	Which Linden:	oh god, wiki so slow....
[11:18]	Ice Brodie:	ehe, I have that problem too
[11:22]	Which Linden:	It's stuck in the "waiting for wiki.sl.com" browser status
[11:22]	Which Linden:	I believe that means that it's waiting for a TCP connection
[11:24]	Which Linden:	Lemme look that up, to make sure that my understanding is correct
[11:31]	Which Linden:	Can you even log in to the wiki? I can't, when it loads.
[11:42]	SignpostMarv Martin:	boo
[11:42]	Which Linden:	Hey, good day!
[11:42]	Which Linden:	How are you doing today?
[11:43]	SignpostMarv Martin is in ur slurl.com, suberting ur concepts of teleportation
[11:43]	SignpostMarv Martin:	subverting*
[11:43]	SignpostMarv Martin:	http://svc.sl.net.marvulous.co.uk/tp/agni/Beaumont/
[11:44]	Which Linden:	ha ha, cool!@
[11:44]	SignpostMarv Martin:	your office doesn't appear to be searchable- otherwise it would've shown up on the Beaumont page
[11:44]	Which Linden:	man, world.secondlife.com is really turning out to be quite useful
[11:44]	SignpostMarv Martin:	data mining FTW!
[11:44]	Which Linden:	yeah, I wonder what I have to do to turn that on
[11:45]	SignpostMarv Martin:	About Land > Options
[11:45]	Which Linden:	do I have to pay L$ 30/ week to do that?
[11:45]	SignpostMarv Martin:	yar
[11:45]	Which Linden:	Oh, neat, and there's a Linden category for it
[11:46]	SignpostMarv Martin:	http://dev.signpostmarv.name/pub/secondlife/map-api.html#Beaumont
[11:46]	SignpostMarv Martin is in ur webmap API, making it fixxorz
[11:46]	Which Linden:	whoa, that is one big web page
[11:47]	SignpostMarv Martin:	absolutely positioned region images
[11:47]	Which Linden:	so is the new webmap api improved over the old, or is it still teh broken?
[11:48]	SignpostMarv Martin:	I wasn't happy with the LL webmap API being based around 4 javascript libraries & two rather pathetic JSONP queries
[11:48]	SignpostMarv Martin:	https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki User:SignpostMarv_Martin/Webmap_API
[11:48]	SignpostMarv Martin:	so I made my own based on the data I
	collected from the google appliance
[11:48]	SignpostMarv Martin:	http://svc.sl.net.marvulous.co.uk/region-indexes/index.html
[11:49]	Which Linden:	nice!
[11:49]	SignpostMarv Martin:	just waiting for google to get it's ass
	into gear and index about 40 to 60 thousand documents
[11:49]	Which Linden:	well, that's really cool!
[11:50]	SignpostMarv Martin is in ur servers, GOMing ur applicashuns
[11:50]	SignpostMarv Martin:	MUHAHAHAA
[11:50]	Which Linden:	Are you considering being a search competitor with us?
[11:50]	SignpostMarv Martin:	j/k
[11:51]	Which Linden:	Cuz I think that'd be great.
[11:51]	SignpostMarv Martin:	not so much a search competitor as "showing how the world.secondlife.com documents should be structured with the hopes that LL will hire me"  :-P
[11:52]	SignpostMarv Martin:	you mind if I hijack the meeting to
	discuss LL's web APIs for a moment ?
[11:52]	Which Linden:	That's fine, I gotta go in 10 minutes anyhow
[11:52]	SignpostMarv Martin:	heh
[11:52]	SignpostMarv Martin:	To put it bluntly, the webmap API is pathetic
[11:52]	SignpostMarv Martin:	there are two queries,
[11:53]	SignpostMarv Martin:	1) Get the name of a region at given co-ordinates
[11:53]	SignpostMarv Martin:	2) Get the co-ordinates of a given region
[11:53]	SignpostMarv Martin:	you can only do one region at at time
[11:53]	SignpostMarv Martin:	in order to gain an index of....
[11:53]	SignpostMarv Martin:	15,848 regions,
[11:53]	SignpostMarv Martin:	I had to do the following:
[11:54]	SignpostMarv Martin:	1) Query the Eventful.com API for venues created by Linden Lab (which is also poorly implemented)
[11:54]	SignpostMarv Martin:	2) Filter out duplicate regions
[11:55]	SignpostMarv Martin:	3) Get the UUID of all the eventful.com venue regions via the google appliance
[11:55]	SignpostMarv Martin:	4) Get an additional result set (which may have contained duplicates) of 1000 regions (as the google appliance is limited to 10 results per page)
[11:55]	SignpostMarv Martin:	this gave me about 7k regions
[11:55]	SignpostMarv Martin:	5) Calculate the minimum & maximum x & y co-ordinates of the cache of regions I had
[11:56]	SignpostMarv Martin:	6) do an exhaustive search of the entire grid based on those figures, using the webmap query https://cap.secondlife.com/cap/0/b713fe80-283b-4585-af4d-a3b7d9a32492?var=slRegionName&grid_x=997&grid_y=1002
[11:56]	SignpostMarv Martin:	the search took 5 days to complete
[11:56]	Which Linden:	Oh god the use of caps for this api is so bad
[11:57]	Which Linden:	I think it means "we just bashed this out as quickly as possible"
[11:57]	SignpostMarv Martin:	I have worked with the OpenSim peeps to create a spec for representing map data, which I'll need to update to include the UUID of the region
[11:57]	SignpostMarv Martin:	http://dev.signpostmarv.name/pub/llsd-grid-map/map.llsd.0.1.1.xml
[11:57]	Which Linden:	I agree that we should spend some time designing and implementing a good map api
[11:57]	SignpostMarv Martin:	Once I've updated the spec I'll be publishing Agni as an LLSD document  :-P
[11:58]	Ice Brodie:	sorry to idle, a friend's old cell phone just arrived in the mail and I'm playing with it.
[11:58]	Ice Brodie:	Which, are you extending your hour with the login issues?
[11:58]	Which Linden:	I approve, signpostmarv
[11:58]	Which Linden:	Ice : ?
[11:58]	SignpostMarv Martin:	which is something I'm hoping that Linden Lab would adopt so I don't have to leave my computer running for a week to generate accurate data
[11:58]	SignpostMarv Martin repeats the documentation link for his webmap API: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:SignpostMarv_Martin/Webmap_API
[11:59]	Ice Brodie:	SL's employee only, went employee only about 10 minutes into the hour...
[11:59]	SignpostMarv Martin:	http://www.flickr.com/photos/signpostmarv/2151037347/
[11:59]	SignpostMarv Martin:	^which turns up in google higher than LL's SL Wiki documentation
[11:59]	Which Linden:	Ice: I'm still not following what you mean
[12:00]	Which Linden:	Oh, we went gods-only today
[12:00]	Which Linden:	?
[12:00]	Ice Brodie:	grid's technically closed, has been for a while, yeah
[12:00]	Ice Brodie:	gods only
[12:00]	Which Linden:	Heh
[12:00]	Which Linden:	Uh...
[12:00]	SignpostMarv Martin:	Unless you have any questions about my rather creative use of the google appliance, I have a question of my own about the login system
[12:00]	Which Linden:	Apparently the asset server is having problems
[12:01]	Ice Brodie:	then again, I don't think I'm specifically working with LLSD stuff, yet...
[12:01]	Which Linden:	This explains why very few textures are rezzing for me
[12:01]	SignpostMarv Martin:	^web images aren't working either, which shouldn't be happening
[12:01]	Ice Brodie:	yeah, #Ops was grumbling about it earlier, acording to Donovan
[12:01]	Which Linden:	Yep, apparently it's gone nucular
[12:01]	SignpostMarv Martin:	http://secondlife.com/app/image/a672d3f6-777d-0213-4920-8d47cbd2860b/2
[12:02]	Ice Brodie:	yeah, those are originating from the asset system
[12:02]	SignpostMarv Martin:	since assets aren't dynamic,
[12:02]	Ice Brodie:	they're cached in the same mechanisms.
[12:02]	SignpostMarv Martin:	the server should be sending last modified headers of the upload date,
[12:02]	SignpostMarv Martin:	then a really, really long expiry time
[12:02]	Which Linden:	They should be cached to some degree, but cache's don't completely insulate you from the primary failing
[12:03]	SignpostMarv Martin:	hrn
[12:03]	SignpostMarv Martin:	interesting
[12:03]	SignpostMarv Martin:	hrm*
[12:03]	Which Linden:	Also the caches are distributed among a farm of machines so you might be hitting one that didn't have it cached already
[12:03]	SignpostMarv Martin:	"X-Cache:MISS from web19.lindenlab.com"
[12:03]	SignpostMarv Martin:	"X-Cache-Lookup:MISS from web19.lindenlab.com:80"
[12:04]	Ice Brodie:	and it's also possible the resource isn't cached for some reason, cache is purged on a rolling restart...
[12:04]	Ice Brodie:	to my knowledge.
[12:04]	SignpostMarv Martin:	no content-length headers being sent
[12:04]	Which Linden:	Isn't that your cache? I don't imagine that our servers include headers telling you whether they've had a cache hit or not
[12:04]	SignpostMarv Martin gets a notecard of the headers
[12:04]	SignpostMarv Martin:	nope, I don't use a proxy
[12:04]	Which Linden:	no content-length? Isn't this apache?
[12:04]	Ice Brodie:	LL's proxy may be attaching the x headers.
[12:05]	Ice Brodie:	x is a valid misc header
[12:05]	Ice Brodie:	it's how LSL tells you everything about a prim that's messaging a web server
[12:05]	Which Linden:	Hm, you're right
[12:05]	Which Linden:	Mine has a content-length
[12:05]	Which Linden:	3441
[12:05]	SignpostMarv Martin:	odd
[12:06]	SignpostMarv Martin:	why would it be sending Content-Language for an image
[12:06]	Which Linden:	Yeah, so I think there's an additional script in here that does the resizing to 256x192 and adds the text overlay
[12:06]	SignpostMarv Martin:	d'oh
[12:06]	SignpostMarv Martin:	asset server borkage
[12:06]	SignpostMarv Martin:	can't send headers in a notecard X-D
[12:06]	Which Linden:	heh
[12:06]	SignpostMarv Martin:	anywoo
[12:06]	SignpostMarv Martin:	do you work on the new login mechanism ?
[12:07]	Which Linden:	I don't, I actually know far too little about it
[12:07]	SignpostMarv Martin:	best to poke Zero about it then ?
[12:07]	Which Linden:	Yeah, he's probably your man
[12:07]	Which Linden:	I'm gonna try to brush up on that, but I'm also trying to get chttp out the door too, so ... little. ... time
[12:07]	SignpostMarv Martin:	there;s beeb discussion that the new login mechanism might lead to OpenID stuffages
[12:08]	Which Linden:	Ugh
[12:08]	SignpostMarv Martin:	??
[12:08]	Which Linden:	OK, well, bring that up at Zero's office hours on Tuesday, perhaps?
[12:08]	SignpostMarv Martin:	don't like OpenID ?  :-P
[12:08]	Which Linden:	No, I like openid, it sucks that there'd be stuffages
[12:09]	Which Linden:	Anywhoo, I do have to run, got a meeting in a minute or so.
[12:09]	SignpostMarv Martin uses stuffages as a catch-all term for "related things"
[12:09]	Which Linden:	Thanks for coming by and for bringing some food for thought!
[12:09]	Ice Brodie:	seeya Which
[12:09]	SignpostMarv Martin:	toodles
[12:09]	Which Linden:	Oh, I see, so openid might come from the login mechanism, yes, that is what I'd like to see
[12:10]	Which Linden:	We out. Peace!
[12:10]	SignpostMarv Martin:	I am operating my own OpenID server for SL Residents  :-P