User:Which Linden/Office Hours/2008 Jan 3

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Transcript of Which Linden's office hours:

[10:59] Which Linden: what it is!
[10:59] Ice Brodie: huh? o.o
[11:00] Which Linden: just sayin' hello  :-)
[11:00] Cancelled Sit
[11:00] Ice Brodie: heyya n.n
[11:00] Which Linden: how are you doing on this fine day?
[11:00] Ice Brodie: doing alright, working on stuff for ibMapper and need to get back into the loop on SL's underlying systems... so I've been trying to hit office hours.
[11:01] Which Linden: cool!
[11:01] Ice Brodie: yeah, talking with James about the web search feature over e-mail too... though that's slow x.x
[11:01] Which Linden: heh
[11:02] Which Linden: gonna get my old transcripts up while we wait for more folks
[11:03] Ice Brodie: ok
[11:03] Ice Brodie: do you know if search_proxy.php for the web based search is on the LL or S3 server cluster?
[11:04] Which Linden: I'd assume on our server cluster since you can't execute php on s3
[11:05] Ice Brodie: ahh, kay, I'll have to keep seach load minimal though.
[11:06] Ice Brodie: James said keep it under 5 profiles a second, and I actually would be lower than a user level load because I'm not going for icons or the JS with the world part...
[11:06] Which Linden: Hm, but the icons and js are probably served up by S3 anyhow
[11:06] Ice Brodie: I'm thinking of initially making a proxy for search_proxy and testing that way
[11:06] Ice Brodie: yeah they are, but it's still more bandwidth LL has to pay for
[11:06] Which Linden: true
[11:07] Ice Brodie: the 5 per second probably takes that into account... I'm gonna throttle to 1 per second initially and keep in contact with him early on.
[11:07] Ice Brodie: ideally I want to tag my stuff in a way that'd let LL form a report of how much bandwidth I'm wasting...
[11:08] Which Linden: Yeah, that'd be cool.
[11:08] Which Linden: What's the application that you're doing all these searches for?
[11:08] Ice Brodie: I try to already, ibMapper is the client ID I use when I send stuff from my server.
[11:09] Ice Brodie: usually just the libraries available through PHP, I try to use one where I can customize the client tag.
[11:09] Ice Brodie: client's gonna be ibMapper whenever I can help it, simular to googlebot
[11:09] Ice Brodie: right now I'm just poking at stuff, while I figure out details.
[11:09] Ice Brodie: ibMapper Overlord's set up with how I'm going to read profiles...
[11:11] Which Linden: I'm a little vague on what ibMapper does... could you tell me a quick summary?
[11:17] Ice Brodie: it's a cartography and statistics suite
[11:17] Which Linden: ah, at secondlifeservers.com
[11:17] Ice Brodie: yep
[11:18] Which Linden: oh god, wiki so slow....
[11:18] Ice Brodie: ehe, I have that problem too
[11:22] Which Linden: It's stuck in the "waiting for wiki.sl.com" browser status
[11:22] Which Linden: I believe that means that it's waiting for a TCP connection
[11:24] Which Linden: Lemme look that up, to make sure that my understanding is correct
[11:31] Which Linden: Can you even log in to the wiki? I can't, when it loads.
[11:42] SignpostMarv Martin: boo
[11:42] Which Linden: Hey, good day!
[11:42] Which Linden: How are you doing today?
[11:43] SignpostMarv Martin is in ur slurl.com, suberting ur concepts of teleportation
[11:43] SignpostMarv Martin: subverting*
[11:43] SignpostMarv Martin: http://svc.sl.net.marvulous.co.uk/tp/agni/Beaumont/
[11:44] Which Linden: ha ha, cool!@
[11:44] SignpostMarv Martin: your office doesn't appear to be searchable- otherwise it would've shown up on the Beaumont page
[11:44] Which Linden: man, world.secondlife.com is really turning out to be quite useful
[11:44] SignpostMarv Martin: data mining FTW!
[11:44] Which Linden: yeah, I wonder what I have to do to turn that on
[11:45] SignpostMarv Martin: About Land > Options
[11:45] Which Linden: do I have to pay L$ 30/ week to do that?
[11:45] SignpostMarv Martin: yar
[11:45] Which Linden: Oh, neat, and there's a Linden category for it
[11:46] SignpostMarv Martin: http://dev.signpostmarv.name/pub/secondlife/map-api.html#Beaumont
[11:46] SignpostMarv Martin is in ur webmap API, making it fixxorz
[11:46] Which Linden: whoa, that is one big web page
[11:47] SignpostMarv Martin: absolutely positioned region images
[11:47] Which Linden: so is the new webmap api improved over the old, or is it still teh broken?
[11:48] SignpostMarv Martin: I wasn't happy with the LL webmap API being based around 4 javascript libraries & two rather pathetic JSONP queries
[11:48] SignpostMarv Martin: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki User:SignpostMarv_Martin/Webmap_API
[11:48] SignpostMarv Martin: so I made my own based on the data I
collected from the google appliance
[11:48] SignpostMarv Martin: http://svc.sl.net.marvulous.co.uk/region-indexes/index.html
[11:49] Which Linden: nice!
[11:49] SignpostMarv Martin: just waiting for google to get it's ass
into gear and index about 40 to 60 thousand documents
[11:49] Which Linden: well, that's really cool!
[11:50] SignpostMarv Martin is in ur servers, GOMing ur applicashuns
[11:50] SignpostMarv Martin: MUHAHAHAA
[11:50] Which Linden: Are you considering being a search competitor with us?
[11:50] SignpostMarv Martin: j/k
[11:51] Which Linden: Cuz I think that'd be great.
[11:51] SignpostMarv Martin: not so much a search competitor as "showing how the world.secondlife.com documents should be structured with the hopes that LL will hire me"  :-P
[11:52] SignpostMarv Martin: you mind if I hijack the meeting to
discuss LL's web APIs for a moment ?
[11:52] Which Linden: That's fine, I gotta go in 10 minutes anyhow
[11:52] SignpostMarv Martin: heh
[11:52] SignpostMarv Martin: To put it bluntly, the webmap API is pathetic
[11:52] SignpostMarv Martin: there are two queries,
[11:53] SignpostMarv Martin: 1) Get the name of a region at given co-ordinates
[11:53] SignpostMarv Martin: 2) Get the co-ordinates of a given region
[11:53] SignpostMarv Martin: you can only do one region at at time
[11:53] SignpostMarv Martin: in order to gain an index of....
[11:53] SignpostMarv Martin: 15,848 regions,
[11:53] SignpostMarv Martin: I had to do the following:
[11:54] SignpostMarv Martin: 1) Query the Eventful.com API for venues created by Linden Lab (which is also poorly implemented)
[11:54] SignpostMarv Martin: 2) Filter out duplicate regions
[11:55] SignpostMarv Martin: 3) Get the UUID of all the eventful.com venue regions via the google appliance
[11:55] SignpostMarv Martin: 4) Get an additional result set (which may have contained duplicates) of 1000 regions (as the google appliance is limited to 10 results per page)
[11:55] SignpostMarv Martin: this gave me about 7k regions
[11:55] SignpostMarv Martin: 5) Calculate the minimum & maximum x & y co-ordinates of the cache of regions I had
[11:56] SignpostMarv Martin: 6) do an exhaustive search of the entire grid based on those figures, using the webmap query https://cap.secondlife.com/cap/0/b713fe80-283b-4585-af4d-a3b7d9a32492?var=slRegionName&grid_x=997&grid_y=1002
[11:56] SignpostMarv Martin: the search took 5 days to complete
[11:56] Which Linden: Oh god the use of caps for this api is so bad
[11:57] Which Linden: I think it means "we just bashed this out as quickly as possible"
[11:57] SignpostMarv Martin: I have worked with the OpenSim peeps to create a spec for representing map data, which I'll need to update to include the UUID of the region
[11:57] SignpostMarv Martin: http://dev.signpostmarv.name/pub/llsd-grid-map/map.llsd.0.1.1.xml
[11:57] Which Linden: I agree that we should spend some time designing and implementing a good map api
[11:57] SignpostMarv Martin: Once I've updated the spec I'll be publishing Agni as an LLSD document  :-P
[11:58] Ice Brodie: sorry to idle, a friend's old cell phone just arrived in the mail and I'm playing with it.
[11:58] Ice Brodie: Which, are you extending your hour with the login issues?
[11:58] Which Linden: I approve, signpostmarv
[11:58] Which Linden: Ice : ?
[11:58] SignpostMarv Martin: which is something I'm hoping that Linden Lab would adopt so I don't have to leave my computer running for a week to generate accurate data
[11:58] SignpostMarv Martin repeats the documentation link for his webmap API: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:SignpostMarv_Martin/Webmap_API
[11:59] Ice Brodie: SL's employee only, went employee only about 10 minutes into the hour...
[11:59] SignpostMarv Martin: http://www.flickr.com/photos/signpostmarv/2151037347/
[11:59] SignpostMarv Martin: ^which turns up in google higher than LL's SL Wiki documentation
[11:59] Which Linden: Ice: I'm still not following what you mean
[12:00] Which Linden: Oh, we went gods-only today
[12:00] Which Linden: ?
[12:00] Ice Brodie: grid's technically closed, has been for a while, yeah
[12:00] Ice Brodie: gods only
[12:00] Which Linden: Heh
[12:00] Which Linden: Uh...
[12:00] SignpostMarv Martin: Unless you have any questions about my rather creative use of the google appliance, I have a question of my own about the login system
[12:00] Which Linden: Apparently the asset server is having problems
[12:01] Ice Brodie: then again, I don't think I'm specifically working with LLSD stuff, yet...
[12:01] Which Linden: This explains why very few textures are rezzing for me
[12:01] SignpostMarv Martin: ^web images aren't working either, which shouldn't be happening
[12:01] Ice Brodie: yeah, #Ops was grumbling about it earlier, acording to Donovan
[12:01] Which Linden: Yep, apparently it's gone nucular
[12:01] SignpostMarv Martin: http://secondlife.com/app/image/a672d3f6-777d-0213-4920-8d47cbd2860b/2
[12:02] Ice Brodie: yeah, those are originating from the asset system
[12:02] SignpostMarv Martin: since assets aren't dynamic,
[12:02] Ice Brodie: they're cached in the same mechanisms.
[12:02] SignpostMarv Martin: the server should be sending last modified headers of the upload date,
[12:02] SignpostMarv Martin: then a really, really long expiry time
[12:02] Which Linden: They should be cached to some degree, but cache's don't completely insulate you from the primary failing
[12:03] SignpostMarv Martin: hrn
[12:03] SignpostMarv Martin: interesting
[12:03] SignpostMarv Martin: hrm*
[12:03] Which Linden: Also the caches are distributed among a farm of machines so you might be hitting one that didn't have it cached already
[12:03] SignpostMarv Martin: "X-Cache:MISS from web19.lindenlab.com"
[12:03] SignpostMarv Martin: "X-Cache-Lookup:MISS from web19.lindenlab.com:80"
[12:04] Ice Brodie: and it's also possible the resource isn't cached for some reason, cache is purged on a rolling restart...
[12:04] Ice Brodie: to my knowledge.
[12:04] SignpostMarv Martin: no content-length headers being sent
[12:04] Which Linden: Isn't that your cache? I don't imagine that our servers include headers telling you whether they've had a cache hit or not
[12:04] SignpostMarv Martin gets a notecard of the headers
[12:04] SignpostMarv Martin: nope, I don't use a proxy
[12:04] Which Linden: no content-length? Isn't this apache?
[12:04] Ice Brodie: LL's proxy may be attaching the x headers.
[12:05] Ice Brodie: x is a valid misc header
[12:05] Ice Brodie: it's how LSL tells you everything about a prim that's messaging a web server
[12:05] Which Linden: Hm, you're right
[12:05] Which Linden: Mine has a content-length
[12:05] Which Linden: 3441
[12:05] SignpostMarv Martin: odd
[12:06] SignpostMarv Martin: why would it be sending Content-Language for an image
[12:06] Which Linden: Yeah, so I think there's an additional script in here that does the resizing to 256x192 and adds the text overlay
[12:06] SignpostMarv Martin: d'oh
[12:06] SignpostMarv Martin: asset server borkage
[12:06] SignpostMarv Martin: can't send headers in a notecard X-D
[12:06] Which Linden: heh
[12:06] SignpostMarv Martin: anywoo
[12:06] SignpostMarv Martin: do you work on the new login mechanism ?
[12:07] Which Linden: I don't, I actually know far too little about it
[12:07] SignpostMarv Martin: best to poke Zero about it then ?
[12:07] Which Linden: Yeah, he's probably your man
[12:07] Which Linden: I'm gonna try to brush up on that, but I'm also trying to get chttp out the door too, so ... little. ... time
[12:07] SignpostMarv Martin: there;s beeb discussion that the new login mechanism might lead to OpenID stuffages
[12:08] Which Linden: Ugh
[12:08] SignpostMarv Martin: ??
[12:08] Which Linden: OK, well, bring that up at Zero's office hours on Tuesday, perhaps?
[12:08] SignpostMarv Martin: don't like OpenID ?  :-P
[12:08] Which Linden: No, I like openid, it sucks that there'd be stuffages
[12:09] Which Linden: Anywhoo, I do have to run, got a meeting in a minute or so.
[12:09] SignpostMarv Martin uses stuffages as a catch-all term for "related things"
[12:09] Which Linden: Thanks for coming by and for bringing some food for thought!
[12:09] Ice Brodie: seeya Which
[12:09] SignpostMarv Martin: toodles
[12:09] Which Linden: Oh, I see, so openid might come from the login mechanism, yes, that is what I'd like to see
[12:10] Which Linden: We out. Peace!
[12:10] SignpostMarv Martin: I am operating my own OpenID server for SL Residents  :-P