User:Which Linden/Office Hours/2009 Dec 10

From Second Life Wiki
< User:Which Linden/Office Hours
Revision as of 13:02, 10 December 2009 by Which Linden (Talk | contribs)

(diff) ← Older revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)
Jump to: navigation, search
  • [11:03] Morgaine Dinova: Aloha, usual suspects :P
  • [11:03] Morgaine Dinova: OMG, Which has a hammer
  • [11:03] Which Linden: yello! afk for one sec
  • [11:05] Which Linden: bacl
  • [11:05] Which Linden: yeah!
  • [11:05] Morgaine Dinova: Wl
  • [11:05] Which Linden: it's a ban hammer
  • [11:05] Which Linden: let's see how it works
  • [11:05] Which Linden: has banned Dzonatas Sol with the G Team ban hammer!
  • [11:05] Which Linden: has banned Dzonatas Sol with the G Team ban hammer!
  • [11:05] Dzonatas Sol: I feel so bad
  • [11:05] Which Linden: ha ha ha it apparently doesn't aim
  • [11:06] Which Linden: did, uh, anything actually happen?
  • [11:06] Dzonatas Sol: I got the hint?
  • [11:06] Which Linden: ha ha ha
  • [11:06] Which Linden: lol
  • [11:06] Dzonatas Sol: lol "NO ENTRY" spam
  • [11:06] Which Linden: oh does it actually spam you?
  • [11:06] Dzonatas Sol: just graphically
  • [11:07] Morgaine Dinova: LOL, bugged G Team tool, oh joy -)
  • [11:07] Which Linden: funny....well that's kind of not exciting
  • [11:07] Which Linden: maybe I have to be in god mode
  • [11:07] Dzonatas Sol: it's a bling bomb
  • [11:07] Which Linden: oskar has this amazing one that tarraforms a huge crater when used
  • [11:07] Which Linden: *terraforms
  • [11:08] Morgaine Dinova: That's funny but inappropriate, or appropriate but not funny, or something. Or perhaps it's worrying that banning can be turned into fun.
  • [11:09] Dzonatas Sol: I like the one AfterLife guilotine... you get your head chopped of and sent randomly to heaven or hell... rezzed above in the sky
  • [11:09] Xugu Madison: Sorry I'm late, took a while to find clothes that still loaded!?!
  • [11:09] Which Linden: ha ha, man, dang on that
  • [11:09] Morgaine Dinova: It's OK Xugu, clothing is optional
  • [11:09] Xugu Madison: I'm glad, this outfit isn't normally this skimpy...
  • [11:10] Which Linden: ha ha ha, it's enforced spring break time
  • [11:11] Dzonatas Sol: Well, currently I'm trying to secure LLIOHTTPServer, and I don't understand how to use it with https. I don't want to derail any topics, but hints would be nice.
  • [11:11] Which Linden: What is LLIOHTTPServer?
  • [11:12] Xugu Madison: llRequestSecureURL() is probably the magic you want Dzonatas
  • [11:12] Dzonatas Sol: SNOW-375 uses LLIOHTTPServer for a REST like interface
  • [11:12] JIRA-helper: http//jira.secondlife.com/browse/SNOW-375:
  • [#SNOW-375] Communicator: Chat/IM/Contacts: windows "thinking outside the box" in a separate process/plugin
  • [11:12] Which Linden: oh I see, lliohttpserver is one of the classes in our http server implementation
  • [11:13] Dzonatas Sol: to the veiwer
  • [11:13] Which Linden: to be honest, the implementation of that stuff is a bit opaque to me as well
  • [11:13] Which Linden: I don't believe we use it to serve HTTPs at all internally
  • [11:14] Dzonatas Sol: thanks Xugu, I'll see if someting I can use from that
  • [11:15] Morgaine Dinova: Which, as Python and Eventlet are on your OH description, I was wondering ... do you work with Enus on the Eventlet side of PyOGP?
  • [11:15] Xugu Madison: I think I may have got the wrong idea, llRequestSecureURL is server not client, sorry
  • [11:15] Which Linden: Morgaine: not super closely, but I am responsive to Enus's needs on that front
  • [11:15] Morgaine Dinova: Woot!
  • [11:15] Morgaine Dinova: \o/
  • [11:15] Morgaine Dinova:  :-)
  • [11:15] Which Linden: for example, I recently removed the dependency on PyOpenSSL in 0.9.1 because installing it on Windows is a bear
  • [11:16] Fisher Linden: And, that's an understatement!
  • [11:16] Which Linden: (not that installing greenlet is a picnic, either, but it's at least self-contained)
  • [11:16] Morgaine Dinova: That's cool, Which!
  • [11:16] Morgaine Dinova: Hiya Fisher!
  • [11:16] Fisher Linden: Hey Morgaine
  • [11:18] Which Linden: also sometimes I consult on design decisions.... i.e. the need is for a list of items and a coroutine that can pull items off of it as they get added.... and I'm like, "you mean a coros.Queue?"
  • [11:19] Which Linden: working a lot on evenlet lately actually
  • [11:19] Morgaine Dinova: I think PyOGP isn't getting the attention it deserves. It could be LL's salvation for staying on top of regressions while still moving ahead fast.
  • [11:19] Which Linden: we're definitely planning on using pyogp for lots of testing
  • [11:19] Fisher Linden: I'm working on it right now, in fact
  • [11:19] Which Linden: I actually think that we consider it largely done
  • [11:19] Fisher Linden: not the framework but the testing
  • [11:19] Morgaine Dinova: Has M even heard of PyOGP?
  • [11:20] Which Linden: as in feature-complete not "development is ceased"
  • [11:20] Which Linden: Fisher: sweet!
  • [11:20] Which Linden: I'm sure M has
  • [11:20] Which Linden: Not sure if he's heard of eventlet though!
  • [11:20] Morgaine Dinova: That's OK, hehe, not asking or miracles :P
  • [11:21] Which Linden: yeah....pyogp is very important to our future
  • [11:21] Morgaine Dinova: I hope a good test suite gets sorted out.
  • [11:21] Fisher Linden: nope
  • [11:21] Dzonatas Sol: voice chat is stable here
  • [11:21] Which Linden: must be just my viewer then
  • [11:22] Fisher Linden: yep, Morgaine, absolutely
  • [11:22] Morgaine Dinova: I'm running Imprudence currently, Voice is on and stable
  • [11:22] Which Linden: Fisher, if you don't mind saying, what are you using pyogp to test?
  • [11:22] Disconnected from: in-world Voice Chat
  • [11:22] Fisher Linden: Core regression testing
  • [11:22] Morgaine Dinova: "Core" being defined as ?
  • [11:23] Fisher Linden: server
  • [11:23] Fisher Linden: s
  • [11:24] Which Linden: Core == simulator, dataserver, web services
  • [11:24] Which Linden: (internal web services)
  • [11:24] Fisher Linden: Yes
  • [11:24] Fisher Linden: that stuff
  • [11:25] Which Linden: So what do you mean by regression testing? Do you write a test case for a known bug and then compile a bunch into a suite that's run automatically?
  • [11:26] BlackLotus Swansong: Sory, I have a cust in need of assistance.
  • [11:27] Xugu Madison: Which, that's what I'd call regression testing, yeah. Basically to make sure a bug can't sneak back in
  • [11:27] Morgaine Dinova: Pretty much all the unit tests available tend to get thrown into regression suites. It's rare that there's too many to run in the time available :-)
  • [11:28] Which Linden: Oh I dunno...industrious developers have been known to write tests that consume huge amounts of time....
  • [11:28] Fisher Linden: Regression testing is defined to be a list of known tests that pass on existing software
  • [11:28] Morgaine Dinova: But in addition to unit tests, you've got all the multi-unit functional tests, and limits testing, and invariants tests, .... list goes on forever :-)
  • [11:28] Fisher Linden: A regression test suite therefore is one that runs for each new software rev in order to confirm that the software hasn't 'regressed', i.e. gone backward
  • [11:28] Morgaine Dinova: Yup
  • [11:29] Fisher Linden: It can include unit, integration, system, functional, stress, load, performance, etc
  • [11:29] Morgaine Dinova: I was in QA in one of my contracts, for a major UK computer company. It was really interesting.
  • [11:29] Which Linden: Yeah, QA is really underappreciated field
  • [11:30] Which Linden: What were you working on, Morgaine?
  • [11:30] Fisher Linden: As we move forward, the suite gets larger by including tests for bugs fixed for each s/w revision
  • [11:30] Fisher Linden: And, that's why automation is key
  • [11:30] Fisher Linden: sorry. got a little excited there
  • [11:30] Fisher Linden:  :-)
  • [11:31] Morgaine Dinova: It was a comms backbone for a semi-sensitive defence contract (office stuff, not military).
  • [11:31] Fisher Linden: sounds like fun. :-)
  • [11:32] Which Linden: Ha ha ha, automation is exciting
  • [11:32] Fisher Linden: I worked for defense contractors before
  • [11:32] Fisher Linden: the paperwork will kill you even before you right a line of code
  • [11:32] Morgaine Dinova: IN another contract I wrote the test harnesses, including kernel work to add kernel security to the testing. It was C2, so not any huge security.
  • [11:32] Morgaine Dinova: I did some work on a B1 .... that was scary :P
  • [11:33] Which Linden: I saw a great talk at last years' GDC by a guy who worked on Brutal Legend....they wrote a bot that would send keystrokes to the game and play through it
  • [11:33] Morgaine Dinova: Hate to think what class A security is like .... you're probably a nervous wreck after a couple of years of it.
  • [11:33] Which Linden: And it worked as sort of a screensaver, so apparently a buncha bugs were caught by people just idly starting at this bot running around
  • [11:34] Which Linden: *staring
  • [11:34] Which Linden: many that word is hard to type, my fingers really want to type the word 'start'
  • [11:34] Fisher Linden: lol
  • [11:34] Which Linden: actually I think I've concluded that IRC and chat have killed my ability to type altogether
  • [11:35] Morgaine Dinova: Which: well related to that, I've been suggesting to Nyx to do fuzz testing in OSgrid. It's a much tougher environment for LL viewers than SL, since the servers and viewers were made for each other here.
  • [11:35] Which Linden: Oh man fuzz testing
  • [11:35] Which Linden: I love that shit
  • [11:35] Morgaine Dinova: Your 4th word is appropriate :-)
  • [11:35] Which Linden: But ... I probably have a different idea of what that means than you do
  • [11:36] Which Linden: Since I don't really see how OSGrid would help with fuzz testing
  • [11:36] Which Linden: Just cause it'd be easier to modify the server to send random crap to the viewer?
  • [11:36] Morgaine Dinova: Which: it's not random fuzz like with a fuzz tester, but it's unexpected input.
  • [11:38] Which Linden: OK, sure
  • [11:38] Morgaine Dinova: OSgrid definitely stresses LL clients. Every single LL-based client dies in OSgrid on Linux, apparently with the sole exception of the new Imprudence. Some die in seconds, some in minutes, and some after an hour or more.
  • [11:38] Which Linden: The hard thing about fuzz testing is the verification
  • [11:38] Xugu Madison: So, on a completely different note, any news on L$ transactions being transactional? :)
  • [11:39] Which Linden: I guess testing for "does the client crash" is the most basic of verification tests
  • [11:39] Which Linden: But you might overlook something like "client doesn't crash but displays nothing useful"
  • [11:40] Which Linden: Xugu: in LSL, that's kind of a project that's been written up but is waiting for resources
  • [11:40] Which Linden: It has a few prerequisites that aren't met yet
  • [11:40] Xugu Madison: Good to hear it's getting closer to someone having time for it :)
  • [11:42] Which Linden: Yeah....the wheels of justice turn slowly.....
  • [11:42] Which Linden: Can someone explain to me this discussion about map tiles on sldev?
  • [11:43] Xugu Madison: I know the feeling. The last fortnight has been 5 minute patches with multi-day pre-requisites
  • [11:43] Which Linden: It sounds like opensim should just move to serving textures over http
  • [11:43] Which Linden: And the viewer should be fix0red so it can have a variable base url rather than a hardcoded one
  • [11:44] Which Linden: But I must be misunderstanding, cause that option seems to not have been brought up
  • [11:44] Dzonatas Sol: Is it a deployment issue to keep legacy texture code? I don't understand that part on opensim
  • [11:46] Which Linden: Trying to keep legacy texture support seems .... incorrect... to me
  • [11:46] Which Linden: So...I guess I'll just watch it play out, see what happens.
  • [11:46] Which Linden: Just seemed strange to me
  • [11:47] Dzonatas Sol: Seems like LLMediaPlugin would be the beter place for legacy code
  • [11:47] Which Linden: The entier map as media plugin .... I like it!@
  • [11:47] Morgaine Dinova: That SLdev discussion really misses the point that Opensim is not SL. SL semi-compatibility is merely the first stage.
  • [11:47] Which Linden: Also I blame my bad typing on this unfamiliar keyboard I'm using
  • [11:49] Which Linden: Is there a central repository of media plugins? How can I give some a try?
  • [11:49] Xugu Madison: There was a giant discussion about "Why OpenSim isn't trying to be SL" recently on OpenSim-Dev, actually
  • [11:49] Dzonatas Sol: llqtwebkit and gstreamer is two only two plugins that are released
  • [11:50] Which Linden: Gotcha
  • [11:50] Dzonatas Sol: the*
  • [11:50] Which Linden: Aimee's VNC plugin...not released?
  • [11:50] Xugu Madison: (in the unlikely event I have free time ever again, I'll quote the next person who complains OpenSim doesn't have money, a cost to implement)
  • [11:51] Fisher Linden: Which, did you download the iphone app?
  • [11:52] Which Linden: No.....should I have?
  • [11:52] Which Linden: Is it k-rad?
  • [11:53] Fisher Linden: k-rad?
  • [11:53] Fisher Linden: No, but it's cool. :-)
  • [11:53] Fisher Linden: I just downloaded it
  • [11:55] Which Linden: What's the name?
  • [11:55] Which Linden: Oh I guess I can search in itunrs
  • [11:56] Which Linden: Touch Life?
  • [11:56] Fisher Linden: yes
  • [11:56] Fisher Linden: Touch Life
  • [11:56] Which Linden: ok that looks really cool
  • [11:56] Morgaine Dinova: Xugu: I wrote one of my few posts to opensim-dev about that issue, why Opensim is not trying to be an SL. It makes for pretty uncomfortable reading for Lindens, but it's the truth --- https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/opensim-dev/2009-November/007930.html
  • [11:56] Fisher Linden: $2.99!
  • [11:56] Fisher Linden: but, still
  • [11:56] Which Linden: And it somehow got a 12+ rating
  • [11:57] Fisher Linden: lol
  • [11:57] Xugu Madison: Morgaine, yup, saw, was very good!
  • [11:57] Fisher Linden: I downloaded it and now I can't find it on my phone!
  • [11:57] Fisher Linden: apple's fault, I'm sure
  • [11:57] Which Linden: Shoulda gotten a clone!
  • [11:58] Which Linden: OK folks.... I guess we're winding down here
  • [11:58] Xugu Madison: Wound down I think :)
  • [11:59] Dzonatas Sol: =)
  • [11:59] Dzonatas Sol: take care everyone
  • [11:59] Which Linden: Great to see you all
  • [11:59] Which Linden: Have a lovely weekend!