User:Which Linden/Office Hours/2009 Oct 29

• [11:06] Liandra Ceawlin: Which Which is which? D:
• [11:06] Enkidu Linden: hey which
• [11:06] Which Linden: good day
• [11:06] lqlas Zuta:  ?
• [11:06] Which Linden: er I mean.....spoooooky day!
• [11:07] Which Linden: how is everyone?
• [11:07] Liandra Ceawlin: Spifftacular!
• [11:07] Squirrel Wood: not a pumpkin :p
• [11:08] Liandra Ceawlin: This looked like a pleasantly geek OO, so I figured I'd come lurk, lol.
• [11:08] Which Linden: with a name like Squirrel Wood I'd expect you to be riding around on a half-eaten pumpkin
• [11:08] Liandra Ceawlin: *geeky, too.
• [11:08] Which Linden: heh yeah, that it is!
• [11:08] Squirrel Wood: Och be glad that building is disabled here or I'd pelt you with acorns :p
• [11:10] Which Linden: heh heh
• [11:10] Which Linden: so uh....any topic suggestions?
• [11:10] Squirrel Wood: Pumpkins!
• [11:10] Which Linden: They're a threat to civilization!
• [11:11] Squirrel Wood: Indeed!
• [11:11] Enkidu Linden: they make pretty good heads
• [11:11] Which Linden: Thank goodness for sculpties
• [11:11] Which Linden: They were way uglier back in the day
• [11:12] Enkidu Linden: orange cubes?
• [11:12] Which Linden: yes, which had to walk uphill both ways
• [11:13] Which Linden: um, ok, so, not that much has happened in my part of the company that's worthy of sharing
• [11:13] Which Linden: been pretty same-ol, same-ol
• [11:13] Which Linden: slow and steady progress
• [11:13] Squirrel Wood: good :)
• [11:13] Which Linden: yesterday I spent the whole day voice-less for some unknown reason
• [11:14] Which Linden: the dot seems to be back today but it wasn't my doing
• [11:14] Squirrel Wood: mayhaps slvoice.exe decided to lock up
• [11:14] Which Linden: wonders if there is a date bug like the one that afflicted windows mobile
• [11:14] Which Linden: it was deeper than that -- I had no voice despite reinstalling SL, rebooting, deleting every single sl-related binary, etc
• [11:14] Squirrel Wood: happens to me sometimes and then voice refuses to work. terminate slvoice.exe and reactivate voice in the client and bam. works.
• [11:15] Which Linden: I even nuked my preferences and it still didn't start working!
• [11:15] Squirrel Wood: Odd
• [11:15] Which Linden: yeah maybe I missed a tempfile or something
• [11:15] Which Linden: oooh that's a good theory, cause tempfiles get reaped nightly
• [11:15] Which Linden: so that would explain it working today
• [11:16] Liandra Ceawlin: Sooo, tell us something geeky. I need my geeky fix for the afternoon, lol.
• [11:17] Which Linden: hm what do I know that is geeky and also shareable ....
• [11:17] Which Linden: enkidu, know anything?
• [11:17] Liandra Ceawlin: Aw. :P
• [11:18] Enkidu Linden: hmm
• [11:18] Liandra Ceawlin: I guess it all else fails, someone could bring up the 3rd party viewer registration policy. XD *ducks*
• [11:18] Which Linden: eesh
• [11:18] Which Linden: I plan on avoiding that topic :-)
• [11:19] Liandra Ceawlin: Wise, lol.
• [11:19] Squirrel Wood: ^^
• [11:19] Squirrel Wood: You can run but you cannot hide :p
• [11:20] Which Linden: so I've been tinkering with llsd a little bit
• [11:20] Which Linden: for whatever reason the python implementation isn't symmetric
• [11:20] Enkidu Linden: symmetric?
• [11:20] Which Linden: i.e. if you take a python data structure and serialize/deserialize it you get something different
• [11:20] Liandra Ceawlin: Trippy. :P
• [11:20] Which Linden: depending on the data
• [11:21] Enkidu Linden: oh good
• [11:21] Which Linden: some of this is just bugs -- as in, it uses the wrong serialization for floats so it loses precision
• [11:21] Which Linden: so that was easy to fix
• [11:22] Liandra Ceawlin: I remember pounding my head on the desk about that stuff when I ported the regapi stuff to php5, lol.
• [11:22] Which Linden: the uri parser also parses empty uris as None instead of an empty string
• [11:22] Which Linden: do we have a php5 llsd parser?
• [11:22] Enkidu Linden: yes we do
• [11:22] Which Linden: I mean obvioulsy we do, but is it open source?
• [11:23] Enkidu Linden: i don't think so
• [11:23] Liandra Ceawlin: It's not? D:
• [11:23] Enkidu Linden: not that i've noticed anyway
• [11:23] Enkidu Linden: i'm just making stuff up now
• [11:23] Which Linden: dude you should stick it in a hg repo and pop it up on bitbucket
• [11:23] Liandra Ceawlin: I just shoved some DOM stuff in and tiddled some code around until it worked. <_<
• [11:23] Liandra Ceawlin: It's on SL wiki, I think... Hm.
• [11:23] Which Linden: yeah that'll work too
• [11:24] Which Linden: oh how about that: https://secure-web17.secondlife.com/developers/third_party_reg/llsd_libs/llsd.php-lib
• [11:24] Enkidu Linden: is it on the sl wiki?
• [11:24] Liandra Ceawlin: [1] Maybe y'all are talking about a different variety of LLSD. >_>
• [11:24] Tillie Ariantho: pokes Squirrel. :P
• [11:25] Enkidu Linden: my bad
• [11:25] Tillie Ariantho: Your bad what? :D
• [11:25] Which Linden: huh yours is a third variety, Liandra
• [11:25] Which Linden: highly custom to your particular problem space :-)
• [11:26] Liandra Ceawlin: Tis just silly DOM foolery, and I chickened out on the encoding and just build xml strings instead of using DOM, lol. <_<
• [11:26] Enkidu Linden: i didn't think we had an open source php5 llsd parser
• [11:26] Which Linden: yeah we do that for speed :-)
• [11:26] Which Linden: Enkidu: it appears that we actually do, but it's not the same as the one we use internally
• [11:27] Enkidu Linden: yeah, it looks different, but it's hard to tell in a browser
• [11:28] Liandra Ceawlin: Hai AImee!
• [11:28] Which Linden: I remember optimizing the python implementation -- one of the things about it is that we use such a small subset of the xml spec that using an xml lib for serialization is much more expensive than doing the string concatenation
• [11:28] Aimee Trescothick: hullo!
• [11:28] Which Linden: hey there :-)
• [11:28] Aimee Trescothick: silly daylight savings time
• [11:29] Liandra Ceawlin: But but but... It seems "dirty" to just use string concatenation! It's too easy! XD
• [11:29] Which Linden: I suppose that the proper thing to do is just to use a non-slow xml library
• [11:30] Liandra Ceawlin: :O
• [11:30] Liandra Ceawlin: Is there such a thing??? =:O
• [11:30] Which Linden: hah!
• [11:30] Which Linden: seems to be low on everyone's priority list :-)
• [11:30] Liandra Ceawlin: I think I just felt time bend back upon itself and the foundations of reality shake to their very roots. :o
• [11:31] Which Linden: yeah it's a good point actually -- if you honestly care about speed, use application/llsd+binary
• [11:31] Liandra Ceawlin: Json! \o/
• [11:31] Liandra Ceawlin: Lol.
• [11:31] Enkidu Linden: why binary?
• [11:31] Which Linden: binary's the fastest
• [11:31] Liandra Ceawlin: You all must completely reengineer SL to use json instead of XML this weekend. You'll be done by monday morning, right? :o
• [11:31] Which Linden: the json serialization is medium-speed
• [11:32] Enkidu Linden: we talked about this once but i thought it was interesting so maybe you could explain why it's so awesome
• [11:32] Tillie Ariantho: IBM has a hardware for parsing XML called DataPower. ^^
• [11:32] Liandra Ceawlin: Lol
• [11:33] Which Linden: you want me to explain why the binary serialization is faster? I think it's just cause it uses less bytes to encode everything
• [11:33] Liandra Ceawlin: I dun think json is "awesome" per se, just not near as heavy as xml, but still human readable-ish...
• [11:33] Which Linden: TBH I think json is *more* human-readable than xml
• [11:33] Enkidu Linden: me too
• [11:33] Which Linden: I would switch to using the json serialization for everything once it's commonly available
• [11:34] Which Linden: we currently don't actually have an implementation of it; instead we have an implementation of this "notation" format which sucks
• [11:34] Liandra Ceawlin: Lol
• [11:34] Liandra Ceawlin: I'm glad you said it instead of me. ;P
• [11:34] Which Linden: yeah ... just pretend it's not there
• [11:35] Liandra Ceawlin: Ah, nevermind. I am just being a pain, lol.
• [11:35] Enkidu Linden: aw poor notation
• [11:36] Which Linden: there are lots of fast libraries for parsing json, but cause notation is a little different.... we can't use any fast libraries
• [11:37] Liandra Ceawlin: This certified HTTP stuff looks interesting. I was hoping the posters meant it was going to be presented, but I guess that was last week. :P
• [11:37] Which Linden: Oh, Liandra, those are actually years old
• [11:37] Liandra Ceawlin: Hey Skills!
• [11:37] Liandra Ceawlin: Lol.
• [11:37] Tillie Ariantho: ^^
• [11:38] Liandra Ceawlin: Bye Skills, lol.
• [11:38] Bronson Blackadder: lol
• [11:38] Which Linden: I just leave 'em up because it's easier than taking 'em down :-)
• [11:38] Which Linden: did we just have a Skills drive-by?
• [11:38] Bronson Blackadder: yep
• [11:38] Liandra Ceawlin: I think so. :o
• [11:39] Which Linden: oh there he is
• [11:39] Liandra Ceawlin: And now a Blukitty driveby. :o
• [11:39] Which Linden: she....my bad
• [11:39] Tillie Ariantho: ^^
• [11:39] Enkidu Linden: which, did you work on http-in?
• [11:39] Which Linden: all avatars look the same when your cam is at thet draw distance
• [11:39] Tillie Ariantho: both back. ^^
• [11:39] Skills Hak: hi
• [11:39] Which Linden: Enkidu, no, I didn't work on http-in
• [11:40] Liandra Ceawlin: offers catnip to the blukitty.
• [11:40] Enkidu Linden: oh i thought you had
• [11:41] Which Linden: no... http-in was pretty much all Kelly
• [11:41] Morgaine Dinova: waves quietly to all :-)
• [11:41] Liandra Ceawlin: Any chance it will ever run on port 80 or 443? Or does that conflict with internal services?
• [11:41] Liandra Ceawlin: Appengine for one does not allow http requests on nonstandard ports. :<
• [11:41] Which Linden: really??????
• [11:42] Liandra Ceawlin: So it's back to polling fun, lol. Yep.
• [11:42] Which Linden: why would they make such a ridiculous restriction?
• [11:42] Liandra Ceawlin: Beats me!
• [11:42] Liandra Ceawlin: I filed a jira, then say that one had already been closed on the subject, and closed mine. <_<
• [11:42] Liandra Ceawlin: *saw
• [11:43] Which Linden: um, so I guess I don't know any hard reason why we couldn't switch to port 80 eventually
• [11:43] Liandra Ceawlin: And the polling is extra yuck for ol' appengine, cos you know, quotas and stuff. =:O
• [11:43] Which Linden: but really... WTF appengine
• [11:43] Liandra Ceawlin: Lol yea
• [11:44] Liandra Ceawlin: I guess they are paranoid.
• [11:44] Bronson Blackadder: lol
• [11:44] Bronson Blackadder: paranoia cha cha cha
• [11:44] Which Linden: dude don't crash my couch script bro!
• [11:44] Which Linden: lol
• [11:45] Liandra Ceawlin: Silly openal crashes. D:
• [11:46] Which Linden: I imagine that a shift to port 80 might introduce operational challenges for us
• [11:46] Which Linden: as in, it'd screw everything up for a while
• [11:46] Liandra Ceawlin: I figured the only reason it wasn't running there already was because some other service was, something internal. :P
• [11:46] Bronson Blackadder: it'll give the masses soemthing else to complain about
• [11:46] Liandra Ceawlin: Lol
• [11:47] Tillie Ariantho: One single snapshot try and I crashed, thats really silly.
• [11:47] Which Linden: yeah it's possible that something internal runs there -- almost certainly in fact
• [11:47] Which Linden: port 80 is usully immediately consumed with something trivial
• [11:48] Which Linden: on anyhost I've ever developed on
• [11:48] Liandra Ceawlin: Lol
• [11:48] Which Linden: "Oh look I can set up favicons, DONE, get your own port, latecomer"
• [11:48] Bronson Blackadder: lol
• [11:49] Enkidu Linden: we don't call your mom #80 for nothing
• [11:49] Enkidu Linden: damn
• [11:49] Enkidu Linden: i need a laugh track
• [11:49] Which Linden: yeah my mom is all about the favicons
• [11:49] Morgaine Dinova: squints at Enkidu :P
• [11:50] Enkidu Linden:  :)
• [11:50] Which Linden: anyone going to any cool parties for halloween?
• [11:50] Liandra Ceawlin: I'm going to lock myself in the basement and turn out all the lights. :P
• [11:50] Which Linden: scary!
• [11:51] Liandra Ceawlin: Well, I thought about dressing up like a scary hillbilly and going out and begging for candy, but..... I do that every other day too. :o
• [11:51] Which Linden: nice!
• [11:52] Which Linden: I'm planning on hitting at least one party
• [11:52] Which Linden: but man -- the day is so intense here in SF that it's a little overwhelming
• [11:52] Bronson Blackadder: got a huge bowl of candy already to hand out
• [11:52] Liandra Ceawlin: I'm not sure if there -are- any parties here.
• [11:53] Bronson Blackadder: so I;',m hanging out at home
• [11:53] Bronson Blackadder: home and here
• [11:53] Bronson Blackadder: lol
• [11:53] Liandra Ceawlin: Maybe I should throw one.
• [11:54] Liandra Ceawlin: Rocky Horror theme or something. My neighbors already think I'm weird, so it shouldn't hurt anything...
• [11:54] Bronson Blackadder: lol
• [11:54] Enkidu Linden: you should go to that zombie thing with praveen, which
• [11:54] Morgaine Dinova: Guild Wars does complete makeovers for some zones for Halloween and also for Xmas, with grinning moons and ghosts for clouds etc. Would have been nice here too :-)
• [11:55] Which Linden: me and me mates are planning to go as Special Infected from L4D
• [11:55] Which Linden: oh zombie thing? hadn't heard of it
• [11:55] Liandra Ceawlin: Omgggg, have you seen Zombieland yet?
• [11:55] Which Linden: Morgaine: actually my understanding is that we don't change the sun and moon anymore because we get too many complaints from inworld photographers. :-(
• [11:55] Which Linden: also I guess we can't change the sun post-windlight
• [11:56] Which Linden: haven't seen zombieland yet, I require at least two months of hype before I'll see anything :-)
• [11:56] Bronson Blackadder: lol
• [11:56] Liandra Ceawlin: It's pretty amusing.
• [11:56] Tillie Ariantho: As long as you allow us to manipulate the sun and all, all is well. :P I almost always use customized windlight settings. ^^
• [11:56] Morgaine Dinova: Which: you realize that if SL's future is determined by complaints, you'll eventually be locked immobile?
• [11:57] Liandra Ceawlin: I highly recommend it, if you are a connoseur of cheesy zombie mogies.
• [11:57] Liandra Ceawlin: *movies
• [11:57] Aimee Trescothick: :We'll forget the sun in his Windlight sky, As we walk in fields of lag"
• [11:57] Which Linden: Morgaine: yep, fully aware
• [11:57] Morgaine Dinova: nods
• [11:57] Tillie Ariantho: Torley's settings pack is a good starter. =)
• [11:57] Which Linden: though you could do your part by complaining that we're too beholden to complainers
• [11:57] Liandra Ceawlin: Hahaha
• [11:57] Bronson Blackadder: lol
• [11:57] Morgaine Dinova: Haha
• [11:58] Which Linden: ok I should run a bit early, I have a packed afternoon
• [11:58] Liandra Ceawlin: Thanks fer your time!
• [11:58] Which Linden: Many thanks for a great time, and happy halloween!
• [11:58] Morgaine Dinova: Well I did too. I told Cyn and Blondin to stop making policy based on resident feedback, and defer to Linden techies instead. I guess they don't like me now ^_^
• [11:58] Tillie Ariantho: oop. show starting. ^^
• [11:59] Which Linden: oh sad treekyomoon.com is listed as a malware site by google now
• [11:59] Which Linden: guess it got haxed
• [11:59] Aimee Trescothick: bye Which :)
• [11:59] Which Linden: yeah -- laters!
• Which Linden