User:Zero Linden/Office Hours/2007 May 15

Transcript of Zero Linden's office hours, as hosted by Which Linden:

[7:36]	Which Linden:	As always, this is public, it'll go on the wiki
[7:36]	Wyn Galbraith use to get up at 5am to be at work at 6:30am, "So this is sleeping in for me."
[7:36]	Which Linden:	Assuming I can figure that out. :-)
[7:37]	Which Linden:	Today I thought it'd be cool to talk about the heterogeneous grid
[7:37]	Which Linden:	Hi Nounouch, welcome to zero's office hours, wihch I'm guest-hosting
[7:37]	Zha Ewry:	Heterogenous? In which way?
[7:38]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	(Hello. ;) )
[7:38]	Which Linden:	Heterogeneous in terms of what version of software the sim hosts are running
[7:38]	Zha Ewry:	You've already got three classes of sims.. and several bits of kit that's special, like the asset servers. OOOH.
[7:38]	Zha Ewry:	Post liberacion!
[7:39]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	As in being able to stop only part of the grid for a rolling maintenance ?
[7:39]	Which Linden:	Post-liberaction, indeed
[7:39]	Zha Ewry:	As in being able to put new code up on single sims and let real folks pound on it!
[7:39]	Which Linden:	Faster maintenance is a goal
[7:39]	Which Linden:	Testing beta code in the main grid is another!
[7:40]	Which Linden:	It's funny how much more useful the main grid is
[7:40]	Wyn Galbraith:	I would so love that.
[7:40]	Squirrel Wood:	size matters in this case I'd say
[7:40]	Wyn Galbraith:	It has always been true that the users are the best testers.
[7:41]	Wyn Galbraith:	It's hard to reproduce real usage on a test grid.
[7:41]	Zha Ewry:	Access, too. I try, now, to leave copies of key work in asset at all times so I can rez them on sandboxes in beta, and test
[7:41]	Zha Ewry:	But.. It would be much nicer to not have the 2-3 week window when I can't get new code into the beta grid
[7:41]	Which Linden:	I think since SL is promarily a communication medium, it's hard to get people to leave aside their main second life to do some testing.
[7:42]	Wyn Galbraith:	That's true too.
[7:42]	Zha Ewry:	Asset lag is killer too.
[7:42]	Zha Ewry:	I end up re-doing bug fixes to code to artifacts in the beta me.
[7:42]	Which Linden:	My avatar isn't as pretty in the beta
[7:42]	Zha Ewry:	Cut scripts from grid copy with fix.
[7:42]	Zha Ewry:	Past to beta copy
[7:42]	Zha Ewry:	Ick
[7:43]	Wyn Galbraith:	Would be nice if we could send current objects to the beta grid for certain testing.
[7:43]	Which Linden:	I wonder, would you all be more interested in the beta if the asset lag were shorter?
[7:43]	Wyn Galbraith:	Yes
[7:43]	Zha Ewry:	Helps a little.
[7:43]	Which Linden:	I guess my question is, how much shorter?
[7:43]	Wyn Galbraith:	Yesterday
[7:43]	Wyn Galbraith is joking.
[7:44]	Zha Ewry:	Well. zero would be idea. Realistically... once or twice a week (and on a schedule) would be helpful.
[7:44]	Zha Ewry:	I also.. make a point to go log on and see what state my Ave is in the beta grid after each snapshot
[7:44]	Which Linden:	I don't know how much effort it takes to do a sync -- presumably a lot
[7:44]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	A "send to Beta" warping object ?
[7:45]	Wyn Galbraith:	Something like that Nounouch.
[7:45]	Zha Ewry:	I use the beta for demos when main is down.. and once or twice.. when I didn't do that.. was bemused that the snapshot had clearly been taken late at night, with the Ave not in work clothing.
[7:46]	Wyn Galbraith:	That can be embarassing.
[7:46]	Which Linden:	One thing about the het grid is that as simulator versions advance, they might want a newer viewer version as well
[7:47]	Which Linden:	For features like sculpties, for example
[7:47]	Which Linden:	The new viewer wouldn't be *required*, but you probably would want it
[7:47]	Wyn Galbraith:	So have a separate viewer for the Beta grid?
[7:48]	Squirrel Wood:	Mayhaps another series of FirstLook viewers?
[7:48]	Khamon Fate claps for first look
[7:48]	Which Linden:	First Look is awesome
[7:48]	Zha Ewry:	First look.. is a really good strategy
[7:48]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	FirstLook was great, yup. But we are talking of collapsing 5-6 different Firstlooks at once
[7:48]	Zha Ewry:	Optional.. is not so good.
[7:48]	Wyn Galbraith:	Only then you're not testing with the exisiting viewer, so how would viewer related issues be tested then.
[7:49]	Zha Ewry:	I had to back off the optional update.. which is only easy becasue I'm very careful to keep the current install at all times
[7:49]	Khamon Fate:	Which have you guys considered opening an Icehouse chat group that we could join and y'all could use to bounce ideas off us?
[7:49]	Zha Ewry:	Finally got the grpahics drivers fixed.. so that I can run the optional. But.. it is painful, when the update takes your machine straight to lockup
[7:49]	Wyn Galbraith is all out of groups
[7:50]	Which Linden:	Khamon: you mean like office hours?
[7:50]	Zha Ewry is as well
[7:50]	Zha Ewry:	25 groups. Heh.
[7:50]	Khamon Fate:	Yeah but a group where we could chat about this stuff anytime
[7:50]	Zha Ewry:	Thoughts, too. We'd be glad to discuss ideas you have, at random
[7:50]	Khamon Fate:	Zha are you linux-based?
[7:51]	Zha Ewry:	XP
[7:51]	Wyn Galbraith:	I mean I could drop some educational ones, I've done almost all the free classes available for the those groups I'm a part of, but would hate to.
[7:51]	Khamon Fate:	Or do you eat AIX for breakfast ha ha ha
[7:51]	Zha Ewry:	The linux version was fine. But.. we have silly corporate apps which (sighs) like XP
[7:51]	Khamon Fate:	I'd drop a group to be a sounding board and idea pusher for Icehouse
[7:51]	Which Linden:	I think the problem with an always-running group chat would be that I'd rarely get any work done!
[7:51]	Khamon Fate:	You'd have to control your growth
[7:51]	Wyn Galbraith:	I could drop a scripting group.
[7:52]	Khamon Fate:	I mean chat
[7:52]	Khamon Fate:	Are you non-invasive bamboo?
[7:52]	Wyn Galbraith:	Which is contained in a pot, I think that's the cure for invasive bamboo, correct ;)
[7:52]	Zha Ewry:	Alas.. my laptop (and main machine) is XP, and ATI.. So.. drivers are tricky. We *do* have a new family which is nvidia based... just out. I *so* badly want one of those
[7:52]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	A "let's drop an idea and wait return" schema is what I use to call a Wiki or a board. Aka Web stuff
[7:53]	Which Linden:	Um, I heard that the species of plant that is sold as "lucky bamboo" is not a bamboo, it's a geranium or somthing
[7:53]	Wyn Galbraith is XP, Dual Core and unsupported graphic chip set.
[7:53]	Wyn Galbraith:	On a Tablet PC.
[7:53]	Zha Ewry:	Well, a number of us, who are here a lot... chat about what Zero talks about.. between meetings. Having a formal group
[7:53]	Khamon Fate:	Geraniums taste funny to me.
[7:53]	Zha Ewry:	would be nice. Lindens could dump notices and proposals at the group.. and we'd be able to discuss it at random
[7:55]	Khamon Fate:	Maybe I'm thinking more like a forum.
[7:55]	Which Linden:	You guys should probably ask Zero when he gets back -- I hardly feel qualified to discourse, since this is, after all, my first office hour!
[7:55]	Which Linden:	(that I've run)
[7:55]	Zha Ewry:	We'll tell anyone anything :-)
[7:55]	Which Linden:	:-)
[7:55]	Which Linden:	Back to het grid:
[7:55]	Zha Ewry:	Speaking of which.. How is zero, and his expected arrival?
[7:56]	Which Linden:	If there's sculpties in one sim, and some other new viewer-sim feature in a neighboring sim, what then? Have to switch viewer versions when you regious cross?
[7:56]	Wyn Galbraith:	You're right it's Dracaena sanderana. Which is fake bamboo.
[7:56]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	Dynamic loading sections of client
[7:56]	Khamon Fate:	Fake Bamboo ha ha ha
[7:56]	Zha Ewry:	Gah. Don't make it worse.
[7:57]	Zha Ewry:	Just use the front level browser..
[7:57]	Zha Ewry:	Hopefully.. you keep things forward compatible most of the time
[7:57]	Khamon Fate:	Whole sections such as the menu bar, and when the client is logged in?
[7:57]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	Aka Quarl toy with the sculpty code, updating the three versions, rebooting the zone, people reconnect, DL needed code and load it ?
[7:57]	Khamon Fate:	Aren't we sposed to talk about a browser plugin?
[7:57]	Khamon Fate:	Oh no that's Benjamin at 10
[7:58]	Which Linden:	Initially at least, we don't have dynamically-loading viewers that are loaded piecemeal
[7:58]	Khamon Fate:	I wonder how optional rendering sculpties is gonna be.
[7:59]	Which Linden:	In any case, any beta branch tends to change a vast swath of code, so you'd be reloading everything.
[7:59]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	Who do you expect it to work ? A viewer per server familly ? A sculpty-on-work one, a browser-on-work-one, a whatever-on-work one ?
[7:59]	Zha Ewry:	Given that one could build an open source client that doesn't render whole swaths of the world.. I'd think totally optional at some leval Khamon.
[8:00]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	Or a single client being updated several times a day ?
[8:00]	Wyn Galbraith:	Morning Chaley.
[8:00]	Zha Ewry:	How often would you imagine deploying new code to sims, Which?
[8:00]	Which Linden:	Client updates should always be optional after liberacion
[8:00]	Wyn Galbraith:	Jarod.
[8:00]	Zha Ewry:	Morning Jarod
[8:00]	Chaley May:	mrning :)
[8:00]	Jarod Godel:	hi
[8:00]	Which Linden:	Morning folks
[8:00]	Entering god mode, level 200
[8:01]	Which Linden:	Welcome to Zero's office hours
[8:01]	Wyn Galbraith:	Zero's office hours where Zero is zero.
[8:01]	Khamon Fate:	So new features can be plugged into the download piecemeal, but downloads will still be whole clients?
[8:01]	Jarod Godel:	optional because there will finally be a set protocol in place?
[8:01]	Which Linden:	Well, so there's two things to separaate
[8:01]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	You can expect people to do some work like an optionnal upgrade to get into "Quarl's crazy sculpty land"
[8:01]	Wyn Galbraith:	Interesting idea Khamon.
[8:02]	Which Linden:	There's the "dynamic loading viewer" which we don't have any plans to biuld
[8:02]	Which Linden:	(but would be cool)
[8:02]	Which Linden:	And the het grid itself, on a liberated message template
[8:02]	Zha Ewry:	I'd agree, NN. Since mosty people won't be hitting oddball beta sims, it would be reasaonbel to say "If you want to test X you need the new browser"
[8:03]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	Oh, BTW, it takes a whole process first of fail-safe and power back-up ;))
[8:03]	Squirrel Wood:	what about splitting functionality into different dllls that share the same interface and can be loaded/unloaded on demand?
[8:03]	Jarod Godel:	like Mozilla>
[8:03]	Jarod Godel:	?
[8:03]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	That's the idea, but it is what Which just refused ;))
[8:03]	Which Linden:	Mozilla's plugins aren't dlls
[8:03]	Jarod Godel:	right... xpi, iirc
[8:03]	Which Linden:	I didn't refuse it, I just said we have no plans to build it
[8:03]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	My bad
[8:03]	Zha Ewry:	And.. cross platform plugins are challenging
[8:04]	Jarod Godel:	So, the SL client needs, what, COM access?
[8:04]	Zha Ewry:	State and windows behavior when loading/unlaoding .dlls is icky
[8:04]	Wyn Galbraith:	Unless we lived in Linux land.
[8:04]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	Honestly, I fear "less used" platforms will be left on the side during live-beta sessions if the builds aren"t automated and frequent.
[8:04]	Khamon Fate:	On the other hand, Benjamin's going to talk about an SL browser plugin at his office hours.
[8:05]	Which Linden:	Even Mozilla, with its non-compiled plugins, often needs to restart when you add a new plugin
[8:05]	Jarod Godel:	Is true.
[8:05]	Khamon Fate:	Where'd Eric go? Is he articlizing Icehouse?
[8:05]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	A sliced client isn't a hack, it's a major redesign
[8:05]	Which Linden:	So, at least initially, if you wanted to try a new feature, you'd have to install a viewer
[8:06]	Jarod Godel:	But, by modularizing the backend, as icehouse has done, such things are possible.
[8:06]	Jarod Godel:	which is exciting
[8:06]	Khamon Fate:	It's at least platformish
[8:06]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	How do you see it Which ? I dowload a client to test Scuplties, another to test the browser on prisms, etc... ?
[8:06]	Which Linden:	I don't know, that seems like the most straightforward thing.
[8:07]	Which Linden:	We can only work on so many betas at once, so the number of clients outstanding would be limited.
[8:07]	Jarod Godel still wants a Tk-ish language for designing dialog boxes via LSL.
[8:07]	Squirrel Wood:	hmm. Have one download which has all different executables included and pops up a dialog on startup where you choose which one you want to run?
[8:08]	Which Linden:	Hmmm.... a meta-viewer?
[8:08]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	Differential patches on the fly ?
[8:08]	Squirrel Wood:	that may just work out?
[8:08]	Wyn Galbraith hrms.
[8:08]	Which Linden:	Patch the viewer, then restart it?
[8:08]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	Only drawback, you need to relog between each different beta
[8:09]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	BTW, I expect at least 4-5 different betas to runs at the same time.
[8:09]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	Not a couple
[8:10]	Which Linden:	Well, we're probably going to ramp up to that many, if at all.
[8:10]	Wyn Galbraith:	Oh boy, choose your beta...LOL
[8:10]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	Refrain in liberty ? ;)
[8:11]	Squirrel Wood:	would be interesting to see which of the betas is chosen most :)
[8:11]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	Visual candies ;)
[8:11]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	The "asset usage reduced by 50%" won't be very popular
[8:12]	Zha Ewry:	Lag reduced by 10%, that one.
[8:12]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	Nah, might get some builders, but not the rush
[8:12]	Which Linden:	I'd expect a bunch of betas to have backend changes that don't require a new viewer
[8:13]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	Imagine putting a live sculpty on main right now, it will soon be capped for days
[8:13]	Squirrel Wood:	All hail the great wondrous sculptie! ^^
[8:14]	Which Linden:	Ha ha, yeah, would landowners be eager to have such a beta software for their land?
[8:14]	Zha Ewry:	Gah. Gotta go deal with RL.
[8:14]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	And there will be "transgender", Sculptie 3.0, Browser on face 2.0, Sculpty 2.2 + Browser 1.1
[8:14]	Zha Ewry:	I would. I have islands where I'd gladly go load a test version
[8:14]	Zha Ewry:	Better to find bugs early.. than be hit hard.. when they go live
[8:14]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	I believe Beta sims should be kept under full Lindens control
[8:14]	Wyn Galbraith:	I would,
[8:14]	Zha Ewry:	Depends what you're testing
[8:15]	Zha Ewry:	Sooner or later. you want wide exposure
[8:15]	Zha Ewry:	So you find out what's broken
[8:15]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	If your whole inventory and money is wiped by a Beta bug, what will you do ?
[8:15]	Zha Ewry:	The same thing that you do, if it happens on the live grid
[8:15]	Wyn Galbraith:	Call the Lindens.
[8:15]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	Even worst, one of your visitor
[8:16]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	But I expect such failures to happen in a Beta
[8:16]	Zha Ewry:	Its a fair point.. But... I've not seen that stuff happen on the beta grid, so I'm not sure you'd expect it in the live grid
[8:16]	Wyn Galbraith:	I'm sure it would be reported which lands were doing beta testing.
[8:16]	Zha Ewry:	I'd also think.. you'd do roll outs.
[8:16]	Khamon Fate:	We never had that problem using First Look that I remember.
[8:16]	Zha Ewry:	Put beta code up in a few sims..t hen slowly grow the use
[8:16]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	So you will have Lindens doing extra Concierge stuff, splitting Beta problems from "usual" problems
[8:17]	Khamon Fate:	Maybe a few sims with group access only so people going there would definitely know the risks.
[8:17]	Zha Ewry:	So..by the time you'd offer it up to the broader community. hopefully, you're looking for load and edge case bugs
[8:17]	Wyn Galbraith:	Need a new Linden group maybe. I'm free ;)
[8:17]	Squirrel Wood:	How about changing the ground texture on any "beta" sims? to one that clearly reads "BETA" ?
[8:17]	Khamon Fate:	Well LL pays Concierge staff to handle things like that.
[8:17]	Which Linden:	Ooof, yeah, we would have to have some sort of obvious visual indicator in the viewer that says you're in a beta sim
[8:17]	Wyn Galbraith:	Sky writing.
[8:17]	Khamon Fate:	Or a preteleport message maybe
[8:17]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	A preference setup "Allow access to Beta sims" too
[8:18]	Zha Ewry:	or warn on entry
[8:18]	Khamon Fate loves preference options
[8:18]	Wyn Galbraith:	You are entering the twilight zone, beware of strangeness.
[8:18]	Zha Ewry:	But.. The whole benefit of beta is to get real residents and real objects in real us
[8:18]	Zha Ewry:	*use
[8:18]	Zha Ewry:	So.. you need to get it out there and used
[8:18]	Zha Ewry:	Else you're back to the beta grid
[8:18]	Jarod Godel:	The future of the metaverse are those "this website is IE5 friendly" messages. :-(
[8:18]	Zha Ewry:	Which.. as we saw last update.. doesn't drive loads
[8:19]	Khamon Fate:	We don't warn people when they sign into the production grid that all of their inventory and money might disappear at any moment.
[8:19]	Zha Ewry:	I was on the beta.. before the major meltdown.. and the beta was fine
[8:19]	Khamon Fate:	Why should we have to do that for a beta sim?
[8:19]	Zha Ewry:	It was only when it hit production loads that it melted
[8:19]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	Merge Beta in to Live, several steps ? Full Beta, Beta but real stuff copied at each entrance, Live asset changes ?
[8:19]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	Khamon : The TOS does
[8:19]	Zha Ewry:	Well.. I think.. that once you get to really early code.. I'd want to be warned
[8:20]	Wyn Galbraith would want to be warned too.
[8:20]	Zha Ewry:	Assets.. I'm having a hard time imaginign assets getting eaten because of a sim/client bug I suppose a few could
[8:20]	Which Linden:	Seems like there are varying degrees of "beta"
[8:20]	Zha Ewry:	but.. your whole inventory? Seems hard to imagine
[8:20]	Which Linden:	Maybe we should use some more greek letters
[8:20]	Khamon Fate:	Well if the beta sim message is as long and complex as the TOS we might as well skip it altogether
[8:20]	Zha Ewry:	Definitel multiple levels
[8:21]	Khamon Fate:	No wait, I mean if they've read the TOS and know that they might lose anything at any time anyway, why do we need to warn them especially on entrance to a beta sim?
[8:21]	Which Linden:	It'd have to pass at least a certain level of stability to make it on the live grid at all
[8:21]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	First step could be the withdraw the need for a different grid
[8:21]	Zha Ewry:	Everythign from "totally new stuff, untested" to "Just about to go live"
[8:21]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	Khamon: Because people don't know how to read, but how to whine ?
[8:22]	Khamon Fate:	True but you've twice invalidated the need to publish anything for them to read.
[8:22]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	Keep them safe by default, even if them not knowing it
[8:22]	Zha Ewry:	hey all gotta run. Which.. thanks.. Pas a hello on to Zero... if you get a chance.
[8:22]	Which Linden:	Thanks Zha, I will!
[8:22]	Wyn Galbraith:	People come and go so quickly here. :)
[8:23]	Gery Bury:	hello
[8:23]	Khamon Fate:	I had to do that at Tuesday's meeting
[8:23]	Squirrel Wood:	Have the client render everything in greyscale in a beta sim... like an old movie. I think that's be an obvious indicator that something's going on ^^
[8:23]	Which Linden:	Hi Gery, welcometo the tail end of Zero's office hours
[8:23]	Wyn Galbraith had a interview Tuesday, "So I couldn't make that meeting."
[8:23]	Khamon Fate:	Make it all wireframe ha ha
[8:23]	Khamon Fate:	We're not helping are we?
[8:23]	Which Linden:	Ha ha, with little phosphor flickers.... it could be done. :-)
[8:23]	Gery Bury:	my english ist not so good
[8:23]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	A simple icon + a preference in setup "I acknoledge to enter Beta sims at stage XXX"
[8:23]	Khamon Fate:	Is there anything else you wanted to talk about seriously Which?
[8:24]	Wyn Galbraith:	Would be like the old days, when VR was a baby, wireframes ;)
[8:24]	Which Linden:	I had no other topics in mind, Khamon
[8:24]	Khamon Fate:	yeah I agree that checking a preference box would cover it well enough. Then only people who checked it would be accessing the sims anyway with full knowledge of what they were doing.
[8:25]	Jarod Godel:	i refuse to be on a beta list!!1!
[8:25]	Khamon Fate:	Have y'all implemented LLSD anywhere yet?
[8:25]	Which Linden:	Caps are LLSD
[8:25]	Jarod Godel:	(kidding)
[8:25]	Khamon Fate:	We must verify that eveyone on the beta list has green hair.
[8:25]	Khamon Fate claps for caps
[8:26]	Wyn Galbraith:	No problem, I love green and have a lot of green hair ;)
[8:26]	Which Linden:	How about if the whole grid has two "main" versions?
[8:26]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	Two ? Main and a Main + Betas-access-open ?
[8:26]	Which Linden:	Two versions of Havok is a use case
[8:27]	Khamon Fate:	Yes that'd be wholly necessary if upgrading an engine.
[8:27]	Squirrel Wood:	havok.. yum.
[8:27]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	That's just more advocacy for the load-on-fly client
[8:27]	Which Linden:	That one would probably work best as one viewer, no notification needed when you region cross
[8:28]	Which Linden:	(because all the changes are sim-side)
[8:28]	Squirrel Wood:	hmm.
[8:28]	Squirrel Wood:	I guess I have the perfect thing to stress test just about any physics engine ^^
[8:28]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	Except people might whine there airplane just changed way of flying because they changed sim and don't understand what happened
[8:28]	Wyn Galbraith:	How do people send you IM's when you're not on any group with them?
[8:29]	Wyn Galbraith is getting IM SPAM.
[8:29]	Which Linden:	Hmmm...yeah, Nounouch, that would be troublesome
[8:30]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	For them and for helpers
[8:30]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	Might no be any risk asset-wide, but can be hard to troubleshoot
[8:30]	Squirrel Wood:	hmm. how about a flag for objects that defines which physics engine was active when they were rezzed and on sim crossing enable the appropriate engine for those?
[8:31]	Which Linden:	I don't think we can technically achieve that, Squirrel
[8:31]	Squirrel Wood:	hmm
[8:31]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	Collapsing two physics engines on a single sim, seems quite hard ;)
[8:32]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	And you need to have developpers keeping busy with upward compatibility
[8:32]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	*not to
[8:32]	Which Linden:	It seems that many problems could be ameliorated by making it obvious in the UI
[8:32]	Wyn Galbraith:	I bet a lot of users don't even know what the physics engine is nor care.
[8:32]	Which Linden:	Wow, is it really 8:30? The time flew by.
[8:32]	Jarod Godel:	I'd be interested know just how many people use the physics engine.
[8:32]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	Flag the beta on several levels and let each user define is accepted level, with the lowest one acknoledge by default ?
[8:33]	Wyn Galbraith needs coffee.
[8:33]	Jarod Godel:	aside from avatars
[8:33]	Which Linden:	Jarod: Me too, I wonder if we can catalog e.g. how many objects are physical
[8:33]	Wyn Galbraith:	Alot of users aren't techies, just here for the fun.
[8:33]	Jarod Godel:	It should be queriabe
[8:34]	Jarod Godel:	queryable
[8:34]	Which Linden:	But that's a story for another time. :-)
[8:34]	Squirrel Wood:	Well, I do have one thing that milks the physics engine for what its worth :)
[8:34]	Nounouch Hapmouche:	When my hairs are floating in the air, I don't mind using a physical engine, but I do
[8:34]	Jarod Godel:	Second Life is fun?
[8:34]	Jarod Godel:	huh.
[8:34]	Wyn Galbraith:	Yes it is.
[8:34]	Which Linden:	Does Zero have something he does to wrap up?
[8:34]	Wyn Galbraith:	otherwise why are we here? ;)
[8:34]	Jarod Godel:	he leaves. :)
[8:34]	Khamon Fate:	He tells us that everything we say will be posted on the wiki
[8:35]	Wyn Galbraith:	Seyalaterbye.
[8:35]	Jarod Godel:	Wyn, the tech.
[8:35]	Nounouch Hapmouche heard something about plushies ? ;)
[8:35]	Khamon Fate:	Oh and he drinks coffee.
[8:35]	Wyn Galbraith:	Linden Bears?
[8:35]	Which Linden:	Oh, yes, all your transcript are belong to the wiki
[8:35]	Squirrel Wood:	^^
[8:35]	Khamon Fate:	ha ha
[8:35]	Jarod Godel:	some one set us up a web 2.0
[8:35]	Khamon Fate:	Talk as Yoda we must
[8:35]	Wyn Galbraith:	lindens have bears, not plushies. Plushies are TUI ;)
[8:35]	Khamon Fate:	Annoys some people it does.
[8:35]	Which Linden:	All right, thanks everyone, you were an awesome crowd today