User:Zero Linden/Office Hours/2008 July 31

• [8:31] Zha Ewry: Morning all...
• [8:31] Zha Ewry: Here, but about to go AF-kay and fetch coffee
• [8:32] Latif Khalifa: hello Zha
• [8:32] Latif Khalifa: erm
• [8:32] Goldie Katsu: see you when you get back with the coffee
• [8:35] Latif Khalifa: hi Tao :)
• [8:36] Saijanai Kuhn: we have a zero this morning for sure?
• [8:36] Tao Takashi: Hi
• [8:37] Latif Khalifa: sai, i thought you were the linden whisperer
• [8:37] Latif Khalifa:  ;)
• [8:37] Tao Takashi: yeah, summon him! :)
• [8:37] Latif Khalifa: tao did you ever manage to build the viewer?
• [8:38] Tao Takashi: nope
• [8:38] Tao Takashi: mac and windows failed
• [8:38] Tao Takashi: didn't try linux as the released viewer did not even work properly
• [8:38] Latif Khalifa: i can compile 1.20 fine
• [8:38] Tao Takashi: on mac I had the cmake hanging
• [8:38] Tao Takashi: on windows I tried -G something and it said that it cannot generated that target or so
• [8:39] Tao Takashi: I followed some how to
• [8:39] Tao Takashi: maybe I should use VS2003 instead of 2005 but also with the -G for that one it complained
• [8:39] Latif Khalifa: i used to build them the old fashioned way fine
• [8:39] Latif Khalifa: didn't try the cmake build yet
• [8:39] Latif Khalifa: and you can install 2003 2005 and 2008 in parallel ;)
• [8:39] Latif Khalifa: i have all 3
• [8:40] Latif Khalifa: hey Prospero :)
• [8:40] Tao Takashi: well, I decided that it's soon the 31st and I would get some viewer by then
• [8:40] Prospero Linden: howdy
• [8:40] Harleen Gretzky: Hi Prospero
• [8:40] Latif Khalifa: congrats on the 1.23 finally being deployed :P
• [8:40] Tao Takashi: but I guessed that the version in the public svn is not the most up to date version anyway
• [8:41] Prospero Linden: Thanks! Whew!
• [8:41] Tao Takashi: HI Prospero
• [8:41] Latif Khalifa: hehe
• [8:41] Tao Takashi: a true public svn would be great ;-)
• [8:41] Goldie Katsu: Hello Prospero and Tao and anyone else I missed when I afkd by application
• [8:41] Tao Takashi: Hey Goldie
• [8:41] Ze Moo: Good day
• [8:42] Cube Republic: hi :)
• [8:42] BigMike Bukowski: Hmm.. Where is fearless leader?
• [8:42] Urbi Aeon: can i sit here?
• [8:44] Saijanai Kuhn: so any new business while we're waiting?
• [8:45] BigMike Bukowski: Cmake broke my machine again -_-
• [8:45] Latif Khalifa: dang, transaction failed
• [8:45] Tao Takashi: I hope those cmake issues will get sorted out someday ;-)
• [8:45] Zero Linden: Hello every one!
• [8:45] Cube Republic: hi zero
• [8:45] Tao Takashi: I should post my experiences to the list again
• [8:45] Prospero Linden: O!
• [8:45] Tao Takashi: Hey Zero
• [8:45] Saijanai Kuhn: Whump isn't here I'm assuming the Gridnauts release is taking all his attention til 9
• [8:45] BigMike Bukowski: Fearless leader!
• [8:45] Zha Ewry: Peridot, Zero.
• [8:45] Zero Linden: sorry to be late - but, well, things are hummin'
• [8:46] Julie Wasserstrom: Hi Zero
• [8:46] Saijanai Kuhn: what just because you have a PR driven beta release today?
• [8:46] Latif Khalifa: is the ogp viewer up for download yet?
• [8:46] Zero Linden: I'll ask on the back channel
• [8:47] Zero Linden: oh - Prospero is here -- he should know!
• [8:47] Nargus Asturias: Hello, Prospero :)
• [8:48] Harleen Gretzky: Hi Zero
• [8:48] Prospero Linden: I don't actually know :)
• [8:48] Prospero Linden: Viewer? What's the viewer?
• [8:48] Harleen Gretzky: lol
• [8:48] Zero Linden: ah - I'm told they will be released at 9am
• [8:48] Zha Ewry: looks for small floating bot like aves
• [8:48] Prospero Linden: Yeah, it looks like Whump is in the drivers' seat on this one.
• [8:49] Julie Wasserstrom: 12 minutes... and counting!
• [8:49] Saijanai Kuhn: Whump isn't in IRC or Gridnauts. His first official huddle is in 10 minutes so I'm guessing he's frantic
• [8:49] Prospero Linden: heh
• [8:49] Prospero Linden: Or passed out
• [8:49] Zero Linden: I'm pretty sure the former
• [8:49] Saijanai Kuhn: not necessarily exclusive
• [8:50] Tao Takashi: probably vacation
• [8:50] Saijanai Kuhn: that's next week, Tao
• [8:50] Tao Takashi: maybe he needed it now ;-)
• [8:51] Saijanai Kuhn: 3, we have 3 options...
• [8:51] Zero Linden: Is it just me or has the seagull population grown?
• [8:51] Prospero Linden: um
• [8:51] Saijanai Kuhn: they do that, you know...
• [8:51] Prospero Linden: The host on aditi that has the "Open Grid" regions seems to be dead at the moment.
• [8:51] Prospero Linden: I'm going to try to poke it
• [8:51] Zero Linden: oh - it *was* just me - new viewer reset all my sound levels
• [8:51] Zero Linden: fie
• [8:52] Cube Republic: i get excited thinking about TPing between grids and folk having the own grids eventually will be so much creative potential
• [8:53] Zero Linden: okay - scary things going on behind the scenes here --- sims being red.... but
• [8:53] Zero Linden: but
• [8:53] Zero Linden: folks are on it
• [8:53] Zero Linden: So -- I've been thinking about unique region names
• [8:53] Latif Khalifa: sims being red on aditi?
• [8:53] Zero Linden: yes
• [8:54] Prospero Linden: red = the background color that our grid monitoring software uses when things are scary
• [8:54] Prospero Linden: In this case, the regions stopped reporting statistics... cause the host had died.
• [8:54] Latif Khalifa: pesky hardware :P
• [8:54] Zero Linden: nothing a little poke of the power button can't solve... :-)
• [8:54] Zero Linden: loves those remote pokers....
• [8:54] BlueWall Slade: red sim @ morning, gridnauts take warning
• [8:54] Zero Linden: LOL
• [8:54] Latif Khalifa: hehe
• [8:54] Cube Republic: lol
• [8:55] Nargus Asturias: lol
• [8:55] Tao Takashi: at least AD login seems to be restored ;-)
• [8:55] Zero Linden: Arrrrrrrr.... don't make me put on me pirate outfit
• [8:55] Goldie Katsu: red sky @ night ....
• [8:55] Tao Takashi: but I still would like to know how to use the AD's event queue get :)
• [8:55] Cube Republic: servers delight
• [8:55] Cube Republic: lol
• [8:55] BlueWall Slade: hmm, Intel's delight
• [8:55] Tao Takashi: and I wanted to suggest that after the beta deadline is now over we can go back to a model where we first specify and then implement
• [8:56] Zero Linden: Oh Tao.....
• [8:56] Zero Linden: well, yes, I agree
• [8:56] Omegadon Aeon: So Zero what is it all that you do at Linden Labs?
• [8:56] Latif Khalifa: Zero, so is you conclusion that there should be 1-1 mapping region name uuid for each RD
• [8:56] Zero Linden: So - AD's event queue is a bit of a sham right now
• [8:56] Tao Takashi: I basically would like to know what I need to implement in my AD
• [8:56] Zha Ewry: listens and tests patches on trunk
• [8:57] Zero Linden: basically, all that you have to do is POST to it.... you'll get an empty response .... just ignore it and POST again
• [8:57] Zero Linden: this forms the heartbeat that says you're still there
• [8:57] Latif Khalifa: Zha, new patch upload today? :P
• [8:57] Zero Linden: Here's what happened:
• [8:57] Zha Ewry: After I trunk test and merge, yes
• [8:58] Zero Linden: There was a plan (just a plan) to do rHTTP with an event queue style fall back in the Agent Domain implementation
• [8:58] Zero Linden: However, a) the rHTTP side isn't fully implemented
• [8:58] Zero Linden: b) the fall back is to a newer design for the event queue that doesn't match the spec (or the simulators)
• [8:59] Zero Linden: Since there aren't actually any resources that the agent domain fetches via this event queue
• [8:59] Zero Linden: it didn't get, er, how shall we say, finished
• [9:00] Zero Linden: The improved design is actually part of the rHTTP design -- and it has three changes from the Event Queue spec:
• [9:00] Saijanai Kuhn: Whump's meeting started if anyone is interested
• [9:00] Tao Takashi: Zero: Ok, so on the AD side I just answer it then
• [9:00] Zero Linden: 1) The passed request and response have full HTTP semantics: headers, status, content, the whole nine yards
• [9:01] Zero Linden: 2) Only one request is passed per transaction
• [9:02] Zero Linden: 3) The requests are given an ID, used to sync up the responses
• [9:01] Tao Takashi: and for rhttp I would like to have some demo endpoint to be able to test against if that's possible
• [9:03] Tao Takashi: I wonder anyway how to implement rhttp ;-)
• [9:04] Zero Linden: But - this stuff hasn't been vetted up
• [9:04] Tao Takashi: and caps and rhttp are probably the biggest problems for people who want to implement it
• [9:04] Zero Linden: Tao - well, the idea is you could ignore the protocol upgrade part of it --- and just fall back to this style
• [9:05] Tao Takashi: well, if I answer directly though we wouldn't have a long poll and I would be busy answering
• [9:05] Tao Takashi: so I will think up how to move this into a thread/coroutine and make it delayed
• [9:05] Tao Takashi: which directly adds complexity to it though
• [9:06] Zero Linden: sigh - I know....
• [9:06] Zero Linden: Oh - uhm,
• [9:06] Zero Linden: seems the gridnauts are convening
• [9:06] Zero Linden: I understand if you all need to TP away...
• [9:06] Latif Khalifa: bad scheduling conflict
• [9:06] Saijanai Kuhn: admires his .5 FPS multi-avatar machine
• [9:07] Zero Linden: I'm like so afraid to multi-login in on my machine! ;-P
• [9:07] Tao Takashi: well, while I don't get the reason for caps I get the one for rhttp at least ;-)
• [9:08] Zha Ewry: k. I'm going to hop the gridnauts for the moment, may drop my alt in here, in a few
• [9:08] Tao Takashi: so what's happening at the gridnauts meeting? :)
• [9:09] Tao Takashi: Zero: do you know what the actual name of the EQG cap at the AD is?
• [9:09] Tao Takashi: I tried event_queue/get and EventQueueGet but got no cap
• [9:09] Zero Linden: I don't, but I'll ask
• [9:10] Tao Takashi: thanks. I also send a question to the gridnauts list
• [9:10] Saijanai Kuhn: they just announced beta is uploaded and that there is one known bug outstanding (sorry)
• [9:10] Zero Linden: viewer URLs are now available
• [9:10] Tao Takashi: Zero: ah, I got an answer there
• [9:10] Tao Takashi: event_queue
• [9:11] Saijanai Kuhn: that's a tad confusing...
• [9:11] Saijanai Kuhn: aren't both event_queue
• [9:11] Zero Linden: indeed, it should be event_queue/get
• [9:11] Latif Khalifa: Tao, libomv (formerly libsl) has a full caps implementation in c# ;)
• [9:12] Saijanai Kuhn: already for OGP?
• [9:12] Tao Takashi: I know ;-)
• [9:12] Tao Takashi: but the basics are also available in pyogp, just the individual caps are missing
• [9:12] Zero Linden: and there is a python caps server released as part of mulib
• [9:12] Latif Khalifa: not for ogp, but the mod should be trivial
• [9:13] Tao Takashi: I somehow had to hack mulib though to get it to work ;-)
• [9:13] Saijanai Kuhn: need to know the name is all
• [9:13] Tao Takashi: and here is a wrapper for that caps server as it's not obvious on how to run it: [1]
• [9:14] Zero Linden: saij - name of? the cap
• [9:14] Zero Linden: the cap server?
• [9:14] Tao Takashi: took me a while to find out what mulib actually is doing
• [9:14] Saijanai Kuhn: the cap for the AD, I thought Tao was asking about
• [9:14] Saijanai Kuhn: EQG cap for AD
• [9:14] Tao Takashi: well, you need to know the cap and what to send to it
• [9:14] Tao Takashi: the name I mean
• [9:15] Tao Takashi: and what you can expect from it
• [9:15] Tao Takashi: and here is the python script which hopefully starts the mulib caps server: [2]
• [9:15] Saijanai Kuhn: JB Kraft will no doubt write at up in 10 minutes
• [9:16] Zero Linden: event_queue --- though I agree that is misnamed
• [9:16] Tao Takashi: so maybe I hop over to gridnauts then
• [9:16] Saijanai Kuhn: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:JB_Kraft/Servers#Packet_Data
• [9:16] Tao Takashi: thanks for the info, Zero! :)
• [9:16] Tao Takashi: cya later
• [9:16] Zero Linden: certainly
• [9:17] Latif Khalifa: the viewer is up for download https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Grid_Public_Beta/Open_Grid_Beta_Viewers
• [9:18] Latif Khalifa: too bad you cannot install viewer while already having two running :P
• [9:18] Prospero Linden: Latif : you need a third computer :)
• [9:18] Saijanai Kuhn: wow lag with viewer download and 2 SL clients open is pretty amazingly bad
• [9:18] Omegadon Aeon: So is the new one up?
• [9:19] JB Kraft: is the c++ code avail for the viewers? svn or something?
• [9:19] Latif Khalifa: Prospero, my computer is fast enough, its just that the installer detects it running and refuses to do its thing ;)
• [9:19] Saijanai Kuhn: on the mac you can. I'm afraid to try though .01fps
• [9:19] Zero Linden: the interop branches are in the public repository
• [9:19] JB Kraft: k
• [9:19] Saijanai Kuhn: Tao tried for 4 days to build it on his own.
• [9:19] Prospero Linden: is sad
• [9:19] Latif Khalifa: more red lights prospero?
• [9:20] Prospero Linden: Running the OGP viewer seems to have confused my Mac... it hasn't started, but the Mac won't start other stuff either.
• [9:20] Saijanai Kuhn: eeep
• [9:20] Zero Linden: whee! betaaaaaaa
• [9:20] Prospero Linden: Oh, there it goes
• [9:20] Saijanai Kuhn: had to tell you it was a new download
• [9:20] Prospero Linden: is annoyed that top on the mac is the BSD one, not the one he knows....
• [9:20] Prospero Linden: Hmm... it's in there doing something.
• [9:21] Prospero Linden: Only using 4% of CPU though
• [9:21] Prospero Linden: weird
• [9:21] Prospero Linden: goes to try Linux next
• [9:22] Prospero Linden: Ah! A SL viewer window just popped up on my mac
• [9:23] Latif Khalifa: need to log of to get it installed lol
• [9:24] Zero Linden: is fighting with his linux box
• [9:27] Saijanai Kuhn: wow lag in local chat
• [9:29] Prospero Linden: chuckles at how quiet things get when you give folks a download link
• [9:30] Latif Khalifa: hehe, now on with 3 viewers ;)
• [9:30] Latif Khalifa: who says it cannot be done
• [9:30] Prospero Linden: tends not to run more than one viewer per machine at a time... that's why he has a desktop and two laptops all around him
• [9:31] Zero Linden: still fighting with his ubuntu box --- he had the temerity to change monitors
• [9:31] Omegadon Aeon: What is the DL link for the OGP Viewer?
• [9:31] Latif Khalifa: hm World -> Teleport region does not seem to do much ;)
• [9:32] Hagen Xue: hi
• [9:32] JenzZa Misfit: hello Beyers :)
• [9:32] Prospero Linden: Latif : yeah, also getting nothing here when I select that.
• [9:32] Beyers Sellers: hi all
• [9:33] Latif Khalifa: Prospero, do we need to be in a specific region on aditi for that to work?
• [9:33] Prospero Linden: Latif : you need to be in one of : Grasmere, Waterhead, Hawkshead, Orientation Island Public
• [9:33] Prospero Linden: But it's not working for me there either :)
• [9:34] Latif Khalifa:  ;)
• [9:36] DrFran Babcock: waves to waelya
• [9:36] waelya Tenk: hello!
• [9:36] Prospero Linden: Is it just me, or are the arguments to ln -s in the illogical order?
• [9:36] Latif Khalifa: its you
• [9:36] Latif Khalifa:  ;)
• [9:37] Latif Khalifa: how else would you leave the second arg out
• [9:37] Latif Khalifa: ln -s /some/dir/file
• [9:37] Latif Khalifa: ie. make symbolic link called file in the current dir pointing to /some/dir/file
• [9:38] Prospero Linden: Yeah, OK.
• [9:38] Prospero Linden: I just think it wrong a lot :)
• [9:39] Latif Khalifa: if it saves me typing its correct ;)
• [9:41] Prospero Linden: I'm gonna pop over to the gridnauts meeting and see what's going on there.
• [9:41] Latif Khalifa: Prospero did you get that TP dialog to appear?
• [9:42] Latif Khalifa: ok i am going there too
• [9:42] Prospero Linden: I have not yet
• [9:42] Latif Khalifa: lets go over there and complain
• [9:42] Latif Khalifa: haha
• [9:42] Prospero Linden: Uh
• [9:42] Prospero Linden: Where is it?
• [9:42] Prospero Linden: There's no group notice :)
• [9:42] Prospero Linden: probably failed to get on the mailing list.
• [9:42] Latif Khalifa: [3]
• [9:42] Prospero Linden: Thanks