View source for WindLight/Office Hours/2008-02-28

'''Pastrami Linden:''' hey all<br>
Spaceman Opus: heya Pastrami<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: hi<br>
George Linden is Offline<br>
Bridie Linden is Offline<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' im me questions!<br>
Michael Linden is Offline<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: weird why doesnt fog ratio work in new wl mines locked at 4.0<br>
Pygar Bu: Hi! Sis!<br>
Marianne McCann: Hiya<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' [13:08] Spaceman Opus: I have a strange bug that generally happens in more crowded/laggy areas. Basically, my whole SL screen becomes unusable when camming around, and I have to guess at a camera angle to get out of it.<br>
BigPapi Linden is Online<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' Spaceman I believe that is known about<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' panning issues, etc.<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' [13:09] Mastorian Kingsford: why is fog ratio shaded and locked at 4.0 in new wl<br>
'''BigPapi Linden:''' Mastorian: Because it has been depracated by WL<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: well with it stuck now and the always water around me view from a hight my frame rates are bad<br>
Bec Sadofsky: So the panning will be on the fix it list?<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' Bec, yes<br>
Bec Sadofsky: good hate getting stuck<br>
Pygar Bu: /yay!<br>
Bec Sadofsky: specially in class<br>
Jingwa Nyanda: hello<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' Mastorian<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' what graphics setting are you at?<br>
Aki Shichiroji: ...<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' well, while you check<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' [13:10] Elysium Eilde: hi, not sure how this works, never been before but...is anything being done to address the snapshot issues? I can not take a photo in WL at a custom size without crashing, as a professional photogrpaher, its hurting my business [13:11] Elysium Eilde: and i have attempted it on multiple Mac systems<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: before i was at 129 distance and mediums settings with fog at 2.5 and wl was good frame rate now im at 64 seeing water everywhere out from me maybe 200 feet and bad framerates<br>
'''Jeremy Linden:''' Jingwa, I'm going to ask you once not to rez those here.<br>
Spaceman Opus: ty Jeremy<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' ELysium, we are aware of snapshot issues-<br>
Jingwa Nyanda: sorry<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' and more specifically,<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' in the months ahead we will be targeting only crashes<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' Mastorian, try setting to Low and tell me if you can use fog distance ratio again<br>
Rose Linden is Online<br>
Elysium Eilde: it actually less of a crash than, SL hangs for so long it gets disconnected from the grid<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: wl puts water all around me im always on island even at 256 range<br>
Zen Linden is Online<br>
Carl Omlet: Elysium Eilde: It may be related to the video memory problem with macs. How much video memory did the macs have?<br>
Joshua Linden is Offline<br>
'''BigPapi Linden:''' Mastorian, those figures mean nothing to me without your graphics settins and hardware settings.<br>
'''BigPapi Linden:''' What are they?<br>
Elysium Eilde: 512 video memory<br>
Elysium Eilde: but i did not have this trouble a few versions ago<br>
Runitai Linden is Online<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: im at 256 megs of video ram and same setup from the im i sent you last time i showed you the water view<br>
Carl Omlet: Elysium: 512mb ram, or 512mb vram?<br>
Elysium Eilde: vram<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: right now im seeing water full 360 as my distant view<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: i have 2 gigs of ram and 256 of vram<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: on xp x64 system not mac<br>
'''BigPapi Linden:''' What's your graphics card? What do you have your graphics settings set to?<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: ati 1250<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: i can use up to 600 vram pulled from regular ram<br>
Elysium Eilde: RadeonX1900 for me, not sure who that was directed at<br>
'''BigPapi Linden:''' Yeah, but that's not a card that's very strong on shaders.<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' we're on Mastorian now<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' Mastorian,<br>
Elysium Eilde: ok i guess i just have to wait for a fix on your end then, ty<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' is whatever behavior you're seeing different from the last release?<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: for somereason wl makes the fog water so i always have a beautiful full 360 view of ocean lmao<br>
'''BigPapi Linden:''' yeah, sorry, the card not being good for shaders was meant for Mastorian, not Elysium.<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: its not shaders<br>
Hamilton Linden is Online<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' Mastorian try this<br>
'''BigPapi Linden:''' Are you on low?<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' set you rgraphics to low<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: medioum<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: medium<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: was high setings before this windlight<br>
'''BigPapi Linden:''' Try low<br>
Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets<br>
Free to Fly: All Go<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: now i have uglay 360 ocean before i had sparkling water haha<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' does your fog ratio work now?<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' can you lower it to 0.5<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: yeah<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' but that doesn't solve your problem.....<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: whats the deal with water always around does it use the water for fog ration or ground fog replacement<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' sorry, we may need a screenshot<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: that i can do<br>
'''BigPapi Linden:''' Yeah, sorry. I'm not sure what you're referring to.<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: the views<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: now its aways a ocean view<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' so you're saying your terrain is cutting off too soon?<br>
Jeremy Linden is Offline<br>
'''BigPapi Linden:''' Or that before the water didn't go as far.<br>
Jeremy Linden is Online<br>
Steve Linden is Online<br>
Dahlia Trimble: location<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: im saying booth regular client and dazele i see land the real view from where im standing , in all the wl clients i see ocean even when im on a city sim standing in middle of city<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' what's your draw distance in each?<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' WL puts ocean out to the horizon regardless of what region is next door<br>
Zen Linden is Online<br>
Zen Linden is Offline<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' with atmospheric shaders on, the ground plane is not drawn<br>
Steve Linden is Offline<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' ahh<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: sorry client crashed and database is loading slow<br>
BigPapi Linden is Offline<br>
Couples MultiAnimator v2d whispers: * Abranimations Couples Animator Ready...<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: i think i need dazzle back lol<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' Runitai, do we expect to change this or will this be new behavior?<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' er? what?<br>
BigPapi Linden is Online<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: thats the pic thats refusing to load from invintory<br>
norritt Xi: Hi everyone<br>
'''Jeremy Linden:''' I think it's something on our end, Mastorian. My attachments aren't loading either.<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' the water plans vs. ground plane out to the horizon<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' ^plane<br>
Aki Shichiroji: oog.<br>
Aki Shichiroji: same here.<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' I don't expect to start drawing the ground plane with atmospheric shaders on, no<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: all i can say is every 250 feet out from where im standing i see water<br>
norritt Xi: Jeremy: I guess grid / asset routing is a mess again, there are nasty packet loss spikes<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: its only in wl clients<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' water out to the horizon is by design<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: even on a main land sim<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' it's the only way to keep gaps from appearing in the horizon<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' later we'll render terrain out to the horizon, too :-p<br>
Bec Sadofsky: like how much later?<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: my house sits on hill i look off baclcony im on island trouble is im on a snow mountain sim<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' more than six months out, less than 2 years<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: lol<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' [13:14] Dahlia Trimble: hi, I'm still having a problem with VWR-3241. could you talk about that one during this meeting?<br>
Dahlia Trimble: thats the particle density one<br>
Dahlia Trimble: it acts like particles that arent visible count against the total particle count<br>
Sidewinder Linden is Offline<br>
Dahlia Trimble: so if there are particles from far away that arent visible, they take precidence over particles from sources nearby and in the viewport<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' the dev who was working on that isn't here...<br>
Zero Linden is Online<br>
Dahlia Trimble: the other viewers dont have that problem<br>
Michael Linden is Online<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' I'm pretty sure that bug came in with an open source patch<br>
Summer Seale: hi norritt =)<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' which was supposed to do the opposite, I'll follow up with whoever was working on it<br>
norritt Xi: hi Summer =)<br>
Dahlia Trimble: this recent series of windlight viewers is the first time I saw it<br>
Dahlia Trimble: thanks :)<br>
Colossus Linden is Online<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' Runitai, Bao was on that internally<br>
Dahlia Trimble: that name sounds familiar<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' [13:30] Summer Seale: if we add hot mustard to pastrami, will it glow in windlight? =)<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' the soul crushing truth<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' the agonizing admittance<br>
Marianne McCann giggles<br>
norritt Xi: There is no spoon so we cant do that<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' queue is empty<br>
Liana Linden is Online<br>
Dahlia Trimble: I dont know if there is a jira, but my frame rate goes down if my inventory window is open<br>
Dahlia Trimble: or some groups<br>
Dahlia Trimble: sometimes down to 1 fps<br>
Dahlia Trimble: I think the other viewers do that too<br>
esf123 Sodwind is Online<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' do you have a lot of folders open?<br>
Hamilton Linden is Offline<br>
Dahlia Trimble: dont think so<br>
Dahlia Trimble: I have a big inventory<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' I know there are known issues re: overhead of drawing UI elements<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' dey be slow<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' yeah, but not 1fps slow<br>
Dahlia Trimble: some groups are worse than others... fashion consolidated is really bad<br>
Summer Seale: lol yes<br>
Dahlia Trimble: I normally have 15 fps or better<br>
Spaceman Opus: Live Music Enthisiasts gets like that too, trying to send a notice out<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' I would jirafy<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' you can see what's taking time by looking at fast timers<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' client->consoles->fast timers<br>
Dahlia Trimble: ykes... it would take me a while to decifer that graph<br>
Bec Sadofsky: hard to read with a clear back<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' just look for the big bar<br>
Dahlia Trimble: they are all pretty even<br>
Dahlia Trimble: mostly green<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' open up render<br>
Spaceman Opus: for Live Music Enthusiasts, it looks like Decode msgs and Process Msgs get the brunt if ut<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' by clicking on it on the left<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: i suspect the wl prgramers in dark cubes and dream of ocean views lol since they make wl always have ocean views of water ripples with sun reflections lmao makes me always on island kinda lmae when every sim is ocean view lol<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' I live on a peninsula<br>
Dahlia Trimble: lots of pretty colors lol<br>
'''BigPapi Linden:''' I live on an airship perpetually hovering over the Pacific myself.<br>
'''BigPapi Linden:''' Sorta like:<br>
Summer Seale: lol<br>
Summer Seale: there he goes again =)<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' alright, so we gettingn anywhere with this UI issue or shouldwe move on?<br>
'''Zen Linden:''' can't repro here, what hardware?<br>
Dahlia Trimble: 8600M<br>
'''BigPapi Linden:''' MacBook Pro?<br>
Dahlia Trimble: hp laptop<br>
Dahlia Trimble: 2 ghz intel dual core<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' what was the clever UI debug setting?<br>
Dahlia Trimble: I dont have a clever ui debug setting<br>
'''BigPapi Linden:''' renderUseCleverUI?<br>
'''BigPapi Linden:''' yup<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' that's what I thought<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' not coming up in this build<br>
Bao Linden is Online<br>
Dahlia Trimble: false<br>
'''BigPapi Linden:''' try setting it to true<br>
Sidewinder Linden is Online<br>
Dahlia Trimble: seems to help so far :)<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' I win!<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' lol<br>
Summer Seale: lol<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' love for Runitai<br>
Summer Seale: \o/<br>
Dahlia Trimble: lol if it lets me into the fashcon group and I still have a decent frame rate, then you would be a hero :D<br>
'''BigPapi Linden:''' UI just got PWN3D!!!<br>
Hamilton Linden is Online<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' er, if it's a slow frame rate when IM'ing a group, that's a different bug<br>
Jill Linden is Online<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' which has been fixed internally<br>
Dahlia Trimble: seems to be working :)<br>
Michael Linden is Offline<br>
'''BigPapi Linden:''' Maybe it's time to re-evaluate defaulting that to true across the board<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' alright everyone all that bad stuff I say about Runitai in other office hours is TOTALLY false<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: like to see a road lol<br>
Dahlia Trimble giggles<br>
Dahlia Trimble: thanks ;)<br>
'''BigPapi Linden:''' lolz<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: thats the view i see behind the blechs<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' [13:41] Spaceman Opus: is the report at Massively correct that a Windlight Release Candidate is days away?<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' it is true<br>
Aki Shichiroji: wooot<br>
Aki Shichiroji: Congrats :D<br>
Marianne McCann: YAY!<br>
Summer Seale: double \o/<br>
Spaceman Opus: yay!<br>
Pygar Bu: yay!<br>
Pygar Bu smiles big<br>
Summer Seale: awesome =)<br>
Dahlia Trimble: w00t! :D<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' [13:42] Marianne McCann: (I still need to JIRA this, but as the queue is empty). On my 20" iMac, I sometimes see flickering" Linden trees, where they go into a red, negative image, or even change to a different Linden tree texture. Has anyone seen anything like this?<br>
Jill Linden is Offline<br>
Summer Seale: i haven't seen anything like that<br>
Betsy Linden is Online<br>
Sabin Linden is Online<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' that's.... terrible<br>
Marianne McCann: I'll have it on the JIRA after I get home today<br>
Summer Seale: i use a mac too sometimes but not at highest settings. i'll try it out later<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' well, trees will die eventually<br>
Marianne McCann: Ya, Usually windlight high<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' these kinds at least<br>
Summer Seale: oh you're replacing trees?<br>
Marianne McCann: Pastrami - there will be much rejoicing on my part (speedtree?)<br>
Michael Linden is Online<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' I know, I know<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' [13:43] Aki Shichiroji: have there been any known changes to http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3485 as of this point?<br>
Hamilton Linden is Offline<br>
Aki Shichiroji: That's the window resize system freeze bug for Macs<br>
Hamilton Linden is Online<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' nope<br>
Soft Linden is Online<br>
Glenn Linden is Online<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' I'll make that one a priority<br>
Aki Shichiroji: Thanks<br>
'''Zen Linden:''' Will apple still update drivers on tiger?<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' nope<br>
Benjamin Linden is Online<br>
Jack666 Carter: I thought so, Zen... until 10.6...<br>
norritt Xi: There is also a freezing bug on PCs but not related to resizing the viewer window<br>
'''Zen Linden:''' g'luck :)<br>
Bao Linden is Offline<br>
'''Zen Linden:''' norritt: this on an NVIDIA 8800?<br>
norritt Xi: Yes<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' on teleport?<br>
Aki Shichiroji: mm. my PC is doing that too... not sure if it's on TPs though.<br>
Zen Linden HATES that he can't repro this. May have to add some debugging info<br>
Green Linden is Offline<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' [13:47] norritt Xi: Is there any scheduled date fot the next WL update release? [13:48] norritt Xi: for even<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' soon, will be RC<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' alright, time is winding down<br>
norritt Xi: I didn't figure any constant reason out yet though tried to provide as much detail as possible. The problem is that the I can't do any research due to the complete system freezing. In many cases SL doesn't even realize the crash<br>
norritt Xi: http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-5089<br>
Morpheus Linden is Offline<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' if this is the same bug torley was epxeriencing, turning off occlusion culling is a workaround<br>
George Linden is Online<br>
'''Zen Linden:''' yep<br>
norritt Xi: Could also have to do with the memory leak, trying to throw anything I can find about that into your direction<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' Runitai,<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' and BigPapi<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' this one look like any of the internals to you?<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' well, and Zen too<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' yup, looks just like torley's<br>
'''Zen Linden:''' yeah, i think it's the TOrley freeze<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' 8800GTX on XP SP 2<br>
'''Zen Linden:''' that doesn't happen on our 8800GTX on XP SP 2 in the boston office<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' I'll, uhh, have to get an 8800GTX for home to repro it XD<br>
'''Zen Linden:''' hey, i'm putting an order in<br>
'''Zen Linden:''' :)<br>
norritt Xi: HA!  Hahahaha!  Heeheehee!  Hee-heeee!<br>
Pygar Bu smiles<br>
'''BigPapi Linden:''' I'll put an order in to ummmm, try and repro it as well. yeah. That's it.<br>
norritt Xi: I have to sign up as Linden to if I get the high end gfx cards for home ;)<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: i can play any game on market lol with 40 frams at least on high setings<br>
Qarl Linden is Online<br>
Summer Seale: i have to sign up as a linden to get a freezing bug named after me....<br>
'''BigPapi Linden:''' not crysis. ;)<br>
Marianne McCann giggles<br>
norritt Xi: You could check the driver version in your Boston office, maybe its the latest detonator causing the problems and the boston system is not up to date<br>
'''Jeremy Linden:''' No Jeremy bugs yet :-(<br>
Brad Linden is Online<br>
'''Zen Linden:''' same drivers as torleys<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: its got lame spyware dont want it and yes i played demo<br>
Rowan Linden is Online<br>
Marianne McCann: (Is that as exciting as having a disease named after you?)<br>
Summer Seale: lol<br>
norritt Xi: Don't worry Jeremy, last time we learned though there are no Jermy bugs you are responsible for all existing bugs ;)<br>
'''Zen Linden:''' norritt<br>
'''Zen Linden:''' do you have anti-aliasing on?<br>
norritt Xi: Yes 8xFSAA (not the quinquinux)<br>
'''Zen Linden:''' i had it off last time I checked. I'll be sure to have it on next time<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: im runing full clouds and a frigging ocen of ripples right now lol sun reflecting all over this surrounding ocean<br>
Harmony Linden is Online<br>
Sally Linden is Offline<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: need a fishing pole<br>
Frolic Mills is Offline<br>
Mastorian Kingsford: lol<br>
'''Runitai Linden:''' ok, that's time for me<br>
norritt Xi: *nods* Zen if theres anything I can do, helping testing different settings trying to repro sth. lemme know. I'll gladly support you<br>
'''Zen Linden:''' noritt: just try it without AA (yes i know it's ugly) but see if you still get it<br>
'''Pastrami Linden:''' yep, we be out