Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2010-01-14

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This meeting was held on January 14th, 2010

Agenda

Resolved Items

Meeting Minutes

Transcript

Transcript of Oskar Linden's Beta Server Office Hour for January 14th, 2010:


List of Attendees

Transcript

[15:02] Oskar Linden: Hi everyone. thanks for coming
[15:02] Oskar Linden: we haven't had this many people here in a while
[15:02] Oskar Linden: I'm waiting for Lil to get here
[15:02] Saijanai Kuhn has entered chat range.
[15:03] Oskar Linden: he is moments away
[15:03] Psi Merlin: Hi Oskar, Hello everyone.
[15:03] Liandra Ceawlin: Hiya Sai. :P
[15:03] Oskar Linden: how many people are here for the first time?
[15:03] Thought Bubble V2.0 (WEAR ME ) whispers: Techo Kitty Development Thought bubble Initializing...
[15:03] Roberto Salubrius has entered chat range.
[15:03] Lil Linden has entered chat range.
[15:03] Effy Khandr: raises her hand
[15:03] Kaluura Boa: On Beta Grid or at this OH?
[15:03] Lil Linden: ohai
[15:04] Psi Merlin: Hi Lil
[15:04] Lil Linden: Hi Psi
[15:04] Holger Gilruth: ohai? ohai! :)
[15:04] Oskar Linden: hey lil
[15:04] Oskar Linden: thanks for coming
[15:04] Lil Linden: aw-skar!
[15:04] Roberto Salubrius: hello beta world
[15:04] Ezra Rasmuson: :))
[15:04] Saijanai Kuhn: ohaio
[15:04] Lares Carter: its a frist time for me
[15:04] Roberto Salubrius: a ohaio
[15:04] Ezra Rasmuson: me too
[15:04] Lil Linden: we have people from ohio here?
[15:04] Oskar Linden: ok guys thanks again everyone for coming
[15:05] Oskar Linden: we've got the agenda here
[15:05] Oskar Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Beta_Server_Office_Hours #Agenda
[15:05] Oskar Linden: this has been a real busy week for lil and I
[15:05] Oskar Linden: crazy busy
[15:05] Oskar Linden: seems like we just here yesterday
[15:06] Lil Linden: seems like every week's a busy week
[15:06] Oskar Linden: the only previous item I have to discuss is getting private regions here on ADITI
[15:06] Oskar Linden: I don't have a wiki process in place but if you have a region that you would like copied over just let me know
[15:06] Oskar Linden: you can send a message to me on AGNI
[15:07] Oskar Linden: I have one or two lined up
[15:07] Oskar Linden: (lil. we'll talk after this)
[15:07] Cannot complete attachment. An attachment is pending for that spot.
[15:07] Lil Linden: (ok)
[15:07] Oskar Linden: I'm sure you're all waiting to hear about 1.36
[15:07] kizmut Smit: Must it be requested by the region owner?
[15:07] Oskar Linden: yeah kizmut
[15:08] sensory Hax: yeah
[15:08]
[15:08] Oskar Linden: that makes the most sense to me
[15:08] Oskar Linden: let's talk about 1.36
[15:08] Oskar Linden: lil do you have a release notes link for us?
[15:08] Lil Linden: sure do. It's in the agenda if you refresh :)
[15:08] Lil Linden: also: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Beta_Server/1.36
[15:08] Oskar Linden: awesome
[15:09] Oskar Linden: well there you have it for everyone interested
[15:10] Oskar Linden: there are not any real large changes
[15:10] Oskar Linden: but a lot has been touched
[15:10] Oskar Linden: we got a lot of maintennance level server bugs fixed
[15:10] Liisa Runo: oh yay, that one thing is finally fixed, i can finish a project i started 3 years ago ^^
[15:10] Oskar Linden: I did a code review with which this week
[15:11] Oskar Linden: 25,000 lines reviewed
[15:11] Oskar Linden: *sigh*
[15:11] Holger Gilruth: that is cool with the script on estate
[15:11] Oskar Linden: of course there were a lot of little procedural changes on the back side
[15:11] Oskar Linden: release scripts and the like
[15:12] Oskar Linden: anyone have any questions about what has beena dded?
[15:12] Lil Linden grumbles about moving to a new revision control system :P
[15:12] Holger Gilruth: can you show us the changes in the topscript estate menu with a picture?
[15:12] Oskar Linden: why don't you tell them about that lil?
[15:12] Lil Linden: Well!
[15:12] Lil Linden: Here in the lab we are in the process of moving from SVN to Mercurial
[15:13] Lil Linden: So there has been a lot of work into retooling our .. tools.. to play nice with Hg (mercurial)
[15:14] Lil Linden: It's been a bit of a slow down, but in the end we hope it will allow better / faster development cycles
[15:14] Oskar Linden: I can try to get you a pic Holger
[15:14] Oskar Linden: ask me after the meeting
[15:15] Holger Gilruth: is my sim Deutschland Startinsel updated? then i can look myself.
[15:15] Oskar Linden: is that sim on aditi?
[15:16] Oskar Linden: I'd be welcome to transfer it over
[15:16] Holger Gilruth: yes... and of course offer anyone the ability to check by herself
[15:16] Holger Gilruth: just IM me then
[15:16] Oskar Linden: ok
[15:16] Oskar Linden: alright
[15:17] Cerise Sorbet: I saw in Andrew's Oh notes that SVC-1945 was a partial fix, any more like that we can expect goof on?
[15:17] t change position for small vectors when called in attachments on Havok4 unless interacted with
[15:17] Nigma Sterling has entered chat range.
[15:17] Oskar Linden: let's talk about the next itemwhat do you mean?
[15:17] Cerise Sorbet: that was not quite a sentence but
[15:18] Cerise Sorbet: he only sais in oh that it was "not copmoletely fixed"
[15:18] Cerise Sorbet: but he probably spelled it right
[15:18] Oskar Linden: I don't know any more about it
[15:18] Oskar Linden: you'll probably have to ask him
[15:19] Cerise Sorbet: bummer, ok, will whack at it, thanks
[15:19] Oskar Linden: ok
[15:19] Oskar Linden: in the absence of being able to edit the front page of the aditi login screen I created a new page
[15:19] Oskar Linden: http://bit.ly/ADITI_notes
[15:19] Oskar Linden: that goes to a wiki page where I try to keep the ADITI status up to date
[15:20] Oskar Linden: including sim versions and blocking issues
[15:20] Oskar Linden: I hope that it will be useful to you guys
[15:20] Holger Gilruth: great idea
[15:21] Oskar Linden: cool
[15:21] Oskar Linden: it is also linked from the MOTD
[15:22] Oskar Linden: that I have been trying to keep up to date (but is out of date now)
[15:22] Oskar Linden: on my list of things to updatre
[15:22] Oskar Linden: unfortunately there is no tool so I have to jump into the sqldb and change it by hand
[15:22] Oskar Linden: each time
[15:22] Oskar Linden: :-p
[15:22] Oskar Linden: the other thing I've heard a lot is how hard it is to know what regions are running what
[15:23] Roberto Salubrius: make a php script then give us access to it so we can send greetz to our hommies on the MOTD :)
[15:23] Oskar Linden: nice roberto
[15:23] Holger Gilruth: haha
[15:23] Oskar Linden: I built a tool to help in communicating what servers have what
[15:23] Oskar Linden: Maestro helped with the LSL and I wrote the PHP
[15:23] Oskar Linden: this page is the simple result of that
[15:23] Oskar Linden: http://aditi.99k.org/ADITI/aditi_sims.php
[15:24] Oskar Linden: it's pretty straightforward
[15:24] Oskar Linden: not too fancy
[15:24] Oskar Linden: but gives a list of regions
[15:24] Lil Linden: damn lolcow
[15:24] Oskar Linden: yeah you gotta click play media
[15:24] Oskar Linden: :-p
[15:25] Oskar Linden: or go to that urkl
[15:25] Oskar Linden: url
[15:25] Lares Carter: whats the red marking about?
[15:25] Roberto Salubrius: yes
[15:25] Roberto Salubrius: red why ?
[15:25] Oskar Linden: red means that that region has stopped responding
[15:25] Roberto Salubrius: Adult ?
[15:25] Oskar Linden: it might be down
[15:25] Roberto Salubrius: lol
[15:25] Oskar Linden: no
[15:25] Oskar Linden: just status
[15:25] Oskar Linden: region maturity is not defined here
[15:25] Oskar Linden: it could be... but I haven't
[15:26] Oskar Linden: I have these little towers all over aditi now
[15:26] Lil Linden: you should define maturity with an... icon...
[15:26] Oskar Linden: they poke my web app once every 5 minutes
[15:26] Oskar Linden: to give server statuses
[15:26] Roberto Salubrius: btw I've been meaning to ask what happend around the change of 1.34.x the spare time ( at least on the sim I am at ) dissapeared
[15:26] Oskar Linden: so at a glance from that url you can see which regions are running which server version
[15:27] Oskar Linden: I don't know roberto
[15:27] Lares Carter: thats handy, thx Oskar
[15:27] Oskar Linden: maybe ask andrew or babbage
[15:27] Roberto Salubrius: ok thx
[15:28] Oskar Linden: anyone who has a region here I can put one of these towers there and then your region will show on the list
[15:28] sensory Hax: http://aditi.99k.org/ADITI/aditi_sims.php
[15:28]
[15:28] Oskar Linden: yeah
[15:28] Oskar Linden: I'm going to try to create a welcome area with info around the user welcome area west of here
[15:29] Oskar Linden: is this kind of thing helpful at all?
[15:29] Cerise Sorbet: yes very helpful esp. with the borked snowglobe map
[15:29] Oskar Linden: yes, no, maybe? :-D
[15:30] Holger Gilruth: why you want to do all by yourself :)
[15:30] Oskar Linden: ok.
[15:30] Oskar Linden: I'll eventually make the names links as slurls if that helps
[15:30] Oskar Linden: what holger?
[15:30] Lares Carter: slurls would be a nice addition
[15:30] Roberto Salubrius: Slurls work on the beta grid ?
[15:30] Holger Gilruth: maybe some people would love to help build the welcome area
[15:31] Oskar Linden: oh ok
[15:31] Oskar Linden: yeah
[15:31] Oskar Linden: knock yourself out
[15:31] Roberto Salubrius: won't it just send us to the main grid ?
[15:31] Roberto Salubrius: unless we are here to start with
[15:31] Oskar Linden: I believe that slurls will send you to aditi if your viewer is logged into aditi
[15:31] Oskar Linden: if you have 2 viewers open it will get confused
[15:31] Oskar Linden: no viewer open will go to agni for sure
[15:32] Oskar Linden: if anyone wants to help build out a qa beta testing specific welcome center I guess ping holger :-)
[15:32] Roberto Salubrius: I tought this was the wellcome center
[15:32] Oskar Linden: this is just the meeting platform
[15:33] Roberto Salubrius: ahhhh ok
[15:33] Oskar Linden: we might as well repurpose the actual meeting center to the west of here
[15:33] Holger Gilruth: ping :)
[15:33] kizmut Smit: Pinging yourself Holger?
[15:34] Holger Gilruth: every ping need an answer ping :)
[15:34] Oskar Linden: he's eager to help himself
[15:34] Roberto Salubrius: and in public how shameful
[15:34] kizmut Smit: A pong?
[15:34] kizmut Smit: LOL Roberto
[15:34] Roberto Salubrius: :)
[15:35] Oskar Linden: ok well I've covered all I needed to
[15:35] Oskar Linden: Any Other Business ?
[15:35] Oskar Linden: so now that 1.36 is on ADITI I expect you all to file lots of bugs
[15:35] Lares Carter: is there going to be a aditi mirror update of the agni state anytime soon?
[15:35] Oskar Linden: if something seems suspicious just file a bug
[15:36] Oskar Linden: probably not Lares
[15:36] Oskar Linden: we can
[15:36] Oskar Linden: but I don't think there is a pressing need
[15:36] Oskar Linden: I can copy over inventories if that is what you need
[15:36] Lil Linden: oh
[15:36] Lares Carter: it was not a request, i would welcome if rather not :D
[15:36] Lil Linden: did we mention that $L might not work on 1.34 sims?
[15:36] Oskar Linden: no
[15:36] Oskar Linden: hmm
[15:36] Lil Linden: Because $L might not work on 1.34 sims
[15:36] Oskar Linden: I can update that in the status page
[15:36] Lil Linden: here on aditi
[15:36] Oskar Linden: is that still not fixed?
[15:37] Lil Linden: I don't think so
[15:37] Lil Linden goes to look
[15:37] Oskar Linden: there were some 'interesting' deploy issues
[15:37] Lil Linden: yea, I think it's 1.36/1.34 not-play-nice-ness
[15:38] Holger Gilruth: how about a wiki site like: please test this and this
[15:38] Oskar Linden: hrm. my L$ balance is still "Loading..."
[15:38] Liisa Runo: mine was too, but bulk upload made it come visible
[15:38] Oskar Linden: that will be here Holger: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Beta_Server/1.36_Beta_Test
[15:38] Holger Gilruth: i see it
[15:39] Oskar Linden: I will create a guide for targetted testing
[15:39] Oskar Linden: and we do have server test plans that are available
[15:39] Oskar Linden: what I'm really hoping is that you can all test the stuff that you use AGNI for
[15:39] Oskar Linden: I've got guys running through the sim smoke tests internally
[15:40] Oskar Linden: but what I need is the depth and breadth of your unique experiences
[15:40] Oskar Linden: heh. thanks lilsa
[15:40] Oskar Linden: hey maestro
[15:40] Maestro Linden: heya
[15:41] Liisa Runo: as you see the numbers spelled "test". did it made your moneys visible?
[15:41] Lil Linden: remind me never to buy a skin-toned suit :)
[15:41] Oskar Linden: it did lilsa
[15:41] Liisa Runo: ^^
[15:41] Oskar Linden: maestro looks snappy in that
[15:41] Oskar Linden: do your nails maestro
[15:41] Maestro Linden: let's see, where'd i put it..
[15:41] Oskar Linden: this is the radio tower that has your script in it maestro
[15:42] Maestro Linden: ah cool
[15:42] Ezra Rasmuson: :))
[15:42] sensory Hax: lol
[15:42]
[15:42] Maestro Linden: Almost like Burj Dubai. Almost.
[15:43] Oskar Linden: so like I was saying a minute ago, anything unique you have would be great to test here
[15:43] Oskar Linden: it's how we find edge cases that our test plans might be overlooking
[15:43] Oskar Linden: we found some real unique stuff in 1.34 that way
[15:44] Oskar Linden: some of the linking rules weren't being very clear
[15:44] Oskar Linden: some of you guys might remember that
[15:44] Oskar Linden: alright, 16 minutes left. Anyone have anything they want to talk about
[15:44] Liisa Runo: if you speak about the relink trick to prevent autoreturn, it is still not perfect
[15:45] Liisa Runo: silence, i guess not
[15:46] Oskar Linden: was that a question?
[15:46] Oskar Linden: sorry
[15:46] Oskar Linden: :-)
[15:46] Liisa Runo: well, yea, not really in question form
[15:46] Roberto Salubrius: how was the (???) group name thing solved ?
[15:46] Holger Gilruth: there is allways a big bug in this version :) suddenly the max groups are limited to 25
[15:46] Oskar Linden: I don't know the specific roberto
[15:47] Oskar Linden: I just lead the qa efforts
[15:47] Oskar Linden: I'm not at the nitty gritty level
[15:47] Oskar Linden: maestro might know
[15:47] Roberto Salubrius: he is busy filing his nails
[15:47] Maestro Linden: I vaguely recall the bug you're referring to, but I didn't pay attention to it recently
[15:47] Maestro Linden searches for the jira
[15:48] kizmut Smit: Oh.. before I add something in jira about this.. Am I not supposed to be able to change the group an attachment is set to no matter what group I have active?
[15:49] Cerise Sorbet: kizmut yeah that is normal, switch groups then re-wear
[15:49] Oskar Linden: :-)
[15:49] Oskar Linden: thanks cerise
[15:49] kizmut Smit: Well then I think I'd add something to jira anyway since I' d think more people would prefer the attachment be set to whatever group is active.
[15:50] Maestro Linden: hm, a fix for that group names bug ( https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4622 ) should've been in 1.34
[15:50] instead of an object's group name
[15:50] Roberto Salubrius: we thought it was a network hiccup
[15:50] Maestro Linden: that too
[15:51] Maestro Linden: but apparently andrew fixed it in some cases, at least
[15:52] Roberto Salubrius: ah ok thx
[15:52] Maestro Linden: I'm not sure about rules for setting the active group in an attachment, kizmut
[15:53] Oskar Linden: too many rules
[15:53] Maestro Linden: that might be inherited from your avatar's active group..
[15:53] Oskar Linden: :-)
[15:53] kizmut Smit: So we don't know if that is working the way it should?
[15:53] Oskar Linden: nope :-)
[15:53] Maestro Linden: I don't know :)
[15:53] Oskar Linden: we usually need to bring up an old simulator
[15:53] kizmut Smit: Well it is clearly from whatever group is active from when the agent logged on or attached the object.
[15:53] Oskar Linden: check see how it works there and call it expected behaviour
[15:54] kizmut Smit: I used to be able to change it while it was attached.
[15:54] Lil Linden needs to run
[15:54] Maestro Linden: as I recall, if you have land set to only allow scripts from a certain group,
[15:54] Maestro Linden: your attachments' scripts will only run if your avatar's active group is set to it
[15:55] Oskar Linden: makes sense
[15:55] Maestro Linden: does that sound pretty accurate?
[15:55] Cerise Sorbet: the attachment - group thing mostly bugspeople when it comes to rezzing
[15:55] Cerise Sorbet: already workarounds for no scripts =)
[15:56] Lil Linden: adios all :)
[15:56] Holger Gilruth: cu lil
[15:56] Roberto Salubrius: rc
[15:56] Roberto Salubrius: tc
[15:56]
[15:56] Oskar Linden: I think Lil got hungry
[15:57] kizmut Smit: yeah.. rezzing is a big one.
[15:57] kizmut Smit: Rezzing from an attachment is supposed to be a convenience.
[15:58] Maestro Linden: yeah, when I try to change the group of my attachment, it instantly reverts
[15:58] kizmut Smit: It isn't if you have to go somewhere else to change the object's group.. return and then run the rez.
[15:58] Maestro Linden: LSL confirms it heh:
[15:58] Maestro Linden shouts: touch_start(integer total_number) 
{
[15:58] Maestro Linden didn't mean to shout
[15:59] Maestro Linden: ah, it's 0 if I'm not in any active group. that's probably what llSameGroup() always returns for a NULL group, though
[15:59] Kaluura Boa: btw, that is a bit stupid to allow attachments not to have the same group than their owner
[15:59] Roberto Salubrius: now what if you drop it with what group will it land on the ground ?
[16:00] Ezra Rasmuson: I need to go too. tc all
[16:00] Oskar Linden: thanks for coming everyone
[16:00] Oskar Linden: find bugs :-)

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