Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2013-01-10
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[2013/01/10 15:01] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): hi hi [2013/01/10 15:01] Latif Khalifa: hey Rex [2013/01/10 15:01] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Jonathan. [2013/01/10 15:02] SMILE (sigma.avro): hi M [2013/01/10 15:02] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Coyot. [2013/01/10 15:02] Rex Cronon: hi yuzuro, sigma, coyot, kallista, latif [2013/01/10 15:02] Jonathan Yap: hello Yuzuru [2013/01/10 15:02] SMILE (sigma.avro): aestro [2013/01/10 15:02] Rex Cronon: no more lag today:) [2013/01/10 15:02] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Maestro. [2013/01/10 15:02] Lares Carter: Hi Maestro [2013/01/10 15:02] Maestro Linden: Hi guys [2013/01/10 15:02] SMILE (sigma.avro): :) [2013/01/10 15:02] Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Hello, Nalates. [2013/01/10 15:03] Maestro Linden: Let's get started [2013/01/10 15:03] Maestro Linden: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Server_Beta_User_Group [2013/01/10 15:03] Nal (nalates.sonnenkern): Hey Yuzuru [2013/01/10 15:03] fuse McGinnis: Hi All [2013/01/10 15:03] Rex Cronon: maestro. is it true that all the lag was because mice were chewing on your fiber:) [2013/01/10 15:03] Rex Cronon: hi [2013/01/10 15:03] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): everyone needs more fibre [2013/01/10 15:04] Rex Cronon: your mice must be filled with high quality fiber coyot:) [2013/01/10 15:04] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): ;) [2013/01/10 15:04] Maestro Linden: Yes, somebody let Meeroos in the server room again :) [2013/01/10 15:04] SMILE (sigma.avro): they have no more cheese ? [2013/01/10 15:05] Rex Cronon: somebody must have spread cheese on your fiber;) [2013/01/10 15:05] SMILE (sigma.avro): or pizza [2013/01/10 15:05] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): quelle fromage! [2013/01/10 15:05] SMILE (sigma.avro): camembert [2013/01/10 15:05] Maestro Linden: Alright, so [2013/01/10 15:05] Maestro Linden: all the channels got rolled this week [2013/01/10 15:05] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Rodents do not need cheese to attack network infrastructure [2013/01/10 15:06] Motor Loon: quite the anticlimax eh [2013/01/10 15:06] Maestro Linden: The main channel just got a small maint-server, which included a fix to a frequent crash mode [2013/01/10 15:06] SMILE (sigma.avro): frequent, impossible in sl ! [2013/01/10 15:07] Maestro Linden: the roll went without much incident, [2013/01/10 15:07] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): \o/ [2013/01/10 15:07] Maestro Linden: but then our Phoenix colo had some issues afterwards, unrelated to the roll [2013/01/10 15:07] Maestro Linden: which resulted in major packet loss [2013/01/10 15:07] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Rodentia [2013/01/10 15:08] Motor Loon: was that hardware or software caused? [2013/01/10 15:08] Maestro Linden: Hm, not sure. Coyot, do you know? [2013/01/10 15:08] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): A network link failed [2013/01/10 15:08] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): h/w [2013/01/10 15:08] Rex Cronon: thing were so bad for me that i thought my sl days were over:( [2013/01/10 15:08] Maestro Linden: so maybe a router went up in smoke or somebody cut the line [2013/01/10 15:08] Rex Cronon: how come i was the only one affected? [2013/01/10 15:08] Motor Loon: nods [2013/01/10 15:09] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): also, there was a problem with the redundant link [2013/01/10 15:09] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Rats peed on the copper to fiber converter? [2013/01/10 15:09] Maestro Linden: plenty of people were affected [2013/01/10 15:09] Nal (nalates.sonnenkern): You weren't the only one Rex. [2013/01/10 15:09] Duckie Dickins: night crew unplugged it to plug in a vaccuum......... :) [2013/01/10 15:09] Motor Loon: pretty much the whole grid °͜° [2013/01/10 15:09] Rex Cronon: last week i was the only one [2013/01/10 15:09] Rex Cronon: on thursday [2013/01/10 15:10] Maestro Linden: anyway, that lasted until 5pm or so on Tuesday (at least that's when we declared it fixed, following a dropoff in issues) [2013/01/10 15:10] Maestro Linden: actually Rex, I think your issue in Morris last week may have been related to something else.. [2013/01/10 15:10] Maestro Linden: For the RCs this week, we originally planned to have 2 projects [2013/01/10 15:10] Maestro Linden: region crossing and interest list updates [2013/01/10 15:11] Maestro Linden: however, we found some last-minute bugs in new the interest list code on Aditi [2013/01/10 15:11] Maestro Linden: which ruined its chances for RC this week [2013/01/10 15:11] Maestro Linden: the bug was... [2013/01/10 15:11] Maestro Linden: (well the main one) [2013/01/10 15:12] Maestro Linden: was that if you region-crossed in a vehicle several times, all of your non-rigged attachments would disappear from your viewer's view [2013/01/10 15:12] Rex Cronon: maestro. on monday i started having the same issues on main grid too. and on tuesday when everybody started to have problems on the main grid, thing were actually better for me [2013/01/10 15:12] Maestro Linden: and then your viewer would actually detach those attachments [2013/01/10 15:12] Maestro Linden: so when you relogged, you'd be attachment-less (possibly naked) [2013/01/10 15:12] Maestro Linden: so I later thought that you may have been seeing that bug if it was just on Aditi/Morris, Rex [2013/01/10 15:12] Maestro Linden: but if you saw it on Agni too, that's something else.. [2013/01/10 15:13] Margithe: Actually, i had that happen to me without a vehicle. [2013/01/10 15:13] Motor Loon: and everybody being naked would be a bad thing? ;) [2013/01/10 15:13] Maestro Linden: just walking / flying across the sim border then, Margithe? [2013/01/10 15:13] Maestro Linden: Depends on the sim, Motor :) [2013/01/10 15:13] Rex Cronon: there r some people who u really don't want to see them naked:) [2013/01/10 15:13] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): /me chuckles [2013/01/10 15:13] Margithe: yeah. But it might have been something else, since after crossing, i only saw myself mesh-less [2013/01/10 15:14] Margithe: others could still see my mesh. [2013/01/10 15:14] Maestro Linden: oh [2013/01/10 15:14] Maestro Linden: that may have been a rendering bug or something. I've seen some cases where my mesh clothes were stuck at a low LOD or something to me [2013/01/10 15:14] Maestro Linden: but others could see it just fine [2013/01/10 15:14] Margithe: But then again, there was so many different issues at the same time, that it was hard to tell what was doing what [2013/01/10 15:15] Maestro Linden: and relogging made it appear correctly [2013/01/10 15:15] Maestro Linden: also, they found a second bug with the interest list stuff, which went something like this.. [2013/01/10 15:15] Maestro Linden: 1) UserA owns an object which is on the ground [2013/01/10 15:15] Maestro Linden: 2) userB looks at the object and userA, then turns his back to them [2013/01/10 15:16] Maestro Linden: 3) UserA wears the object as an attachment, then TPs away [2013/01/10 15:16] Maestro Linden: 4) UserB looks back again, and sees the object on the ground, still [2013/01/10 15:16] Maestro Linden: (whereas the object should be gone, since UserA took it away) [2013/01/10 15:16] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): O-o [2013/01/10 15:16] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): such magic [2013/01/10 15:16] Maestro Linden: Yeah. Very tricky [2013/01/10 15:16] Margithe: good find. That would be a rare thing to encounter [2013/01/10 15:17] Rex Cronon: if usera returns and move around, does userb sees object on ground moving? [2013/01/10 15:17] Maestro Linden: I think they have fixes planned for both of those interest list bugs [2013/01/10 15:17] Jonathan Yap: Is that why you are now sending Kill packets for everything that leaves the region? [2013/01/10 15:17] Maestro Linden: Not sure what happens if UserA comes back [2013/01/10 15:18] Maestro Linden: Andrew's really the best person to ask about those details, Jonathan [2013/01/10 15:18] Maestro Linden: I would expect that the kill packets wouldn't be sent if the object just crossed into another region that your viewer is connected to [2013/01/10 15:19] Maestro Linden: Speaking of region crossings, all 3 RC channels got the region crossing code [2013/01/10 15:19] Maestro Linden: But after a few hours, we saw that the crash rate was way too high [2013/01/10 15:19] Maestro Linden: so we disabled the new fancy region crossing code via a config update [2013/01/10 15:19] Maestro Linden: which made the crash rate return to normal [2013/01/10 15:19] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): This means no roll next Tuesday. [2013/01/10 15:20] Maestro Linden: Yep [2013/01/10 15:20] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): since both failed [2013/01/10 15:20] Maestro Linden: The new crossing code was active for ~5 hours yesterday [2013/01/10 15:20] Nal (nalates.sonnenkern): Is this server/region crashes or viewer crashes? [2013/01/10 15:20] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): server [2013/01/10 15:20] Maestro Linden: server crashes [2013/01/10 15:20] Nal (nalates.sonnenkern): thx [2013/01/10 15:20] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Oh it took the whole box down? [2013/01/10 15:21] Maestro Linden: just a single region at a time [2013/01/10 15:21] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): no, just he region [2013/01/10 15:21] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Ahh OK [2013/01/10 15:21] Margithe: ny idea what causes the crashes? [2013/01/10 15:22] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): I believe that Engineering has some ideas [2013/01/10 15:22] Maestro Linden: I know it has to do with heavily-scripted regions having region-crossing avatars [2013/01/10 15:22] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): around script serialization/deserialization [2013/01/10 15:22] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): yeah, what Maestro said [2013/01/10 15:23] Maestro Linden: We didn't see it much on Aditi before because the regions weren't running 'enough' scripts [2013/01/10 15:23] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): n ods nods [2013/01/10 15:23] Maestro Linden: but now we've loaded the test regions with quite a few heavy scripts, and are seeing the crashes with some regularity [2013/01/10 15:23] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): No markets or sex beds [2013/01/10 15:23] SMILE (sigma.avro): so, ideas for next beta testings... [2013/01/10 15:23] Maestro Linden: Kelly thinks he has a fix.. [2013/01/10 15:24] Margithe: maybe it would be a good idea to set up a more current heavy load test region. [2013/01/10 15:24] Maestro Linden: yes, we have that now [2013/01/10 15:24] Margithe: Thanks. Are they open to the public? [2013/01/10 15:25] SMILE (sigma.avro): what is that region ? [2013/01/10 15:25] Rex Cronon: hopefully u will find out why llsetregionpos is so borked on sim crossings? [2013/01/10 15:25] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): I think we should call the region Hollywood [2013/01/10 15:25] Maestro Linden: it's the 'DRTSIM-184 ' regions [2013/01/10 15:25] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): because it is full of bad scripts [2013/01/10 15:25] Margithe: lol [2013/01/10 15:25] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Booooooooooooo [2013/01/10 15:26] Nal (nalates.sonnenkern): omg [2013/01/10 15:26] Duckie Dickins: mega bling scripts from 2004 [2013/01/10 15:26] Maestro Linden: I think we still have them set up from the pile-on test, right caleb? [2013/01/10 15:27] Rex Cronon: caleb. did u find out what is wrong with "magic" red box:) [2013/01/10 15:27] Maestro Linden: world map search is acting up for me right now, but some regions are listed here: https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Threaded_Region_Crossing_Beta_Tests#.232_Threaded_Region_Crossings [2013/01/10 15:28] test_llsetregionpos: Hello, Avatar! [2013/01/10 15:28] Maestro Linden: We hope that we can verify that the region crossing bug is fixed, so it can go back into RC [2013/01/10 15:29] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): \o/ [2013/01/10 15:29] Maestro Linden: aside from that and the interest list project, we do have another maint-server scheduled for RC [2013/01/10 15:30] Rex Cronon: oops. forgot about clicking on it [2013/01/10 15:30] Maestro Linden: the maint-server project has some cleanup around the estate access code [2013/01/10 15:31] Maestro Linden: and also adds server support for 'neck' and 'avatar center' attachment points [2013/01/10 15:31] Rex Cronon: hey. come on. stop clicking [2013/01/10 15:31] Maestro Linden: which were added to the viewer about a year ago, but for some reason were never added to the server [2013/01/10 15:31] Maestro Linden: resulting in some errors [2013/01/10 15:31] SMILE (sigma.avro): kk, sorry Rex [2013/01/10 15:32] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): I have a request from the FS devs team, could we have Server side bake on the snack RC? [2013/01/10 15:32] Rex Cronon: np. is just that is spammy [2013/01/10 15:33] Maestro Linden: I'm not sure what the state of that project is, but I can forward the request to that team, Kallista [2013/01/10 15:33] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): That is all we can ask for [2013/01/10 15:34] Rex Cronon: AFK............................... [2013/01/10 15:34] Rex Cronon: afk for a few minutes [2013/01/10 15:34] Maestro Linden: In other news, the threaded mesh rez code from Baker is on Aditi now, in the 'DRTSIM-194' channel [2013/01/10 15:34] Maestro Linden: it's only on a few regions, such as 'CCMTEST26' [2013/01/10 15:35] Maestro Linden: so far, I've seen pretty good results, though there's at least one memory leak and crash mode that needs to be fixed [2013/01/10 15:35] Maestro Linden: sim performance totally smooth (always right around 45fps) when a 'stress test' rezzes objects on his sim, compared to ~35FPS on a main channel sim [2013/01/10 15:36] Maestro Linden: I think it will be a few weeks before it's ready for RC, though [2013/01/10 15:36] Nal (nalates.sonnenkern): awesome [2013/01/10 15:37] Maestro Linden: /me looks at the agenda [2013/01/10 15:37] Maestro Linden: that's about all the news I had [2013/01/10 15:38] Lares Carter: Any news about the state of Aditi? [2013/01/10 15:38] Motor Loon: "[15:30] Maestro Linden: the maint-server project has some cleanup around the estate access code" <-- fix for banned avatars getting into regions? [2013/01/10 15:38] Maestro Linden: with the inventory? I haven't heard anything, sorry [2013/01/10 15:38] Nal (nalates.sonnenkern): Yeah, I had to login with an alt today. [2013/01/10 15:38] Theresa Tennyson: Regarding what you just said - would sending a lot of mesh items to a lot of avatars at the same time cause the sim framerate to plummet? [2013/01/10 15:38] Maestro Linden: Yeah, that's the goal, Motor [2013/01/10 15:38] Nal (nalates.sonnenkern): What about the new hardware for the disk full problem? [2013/01/10 15:39] Motor Loon: Excellent [2013/01/10 15:39] Maestro Linden: I haven't heard about the aditi stuff [2013/01/10 15:39] Rex Cronon: back [2013/01/10 15:39] Nal (nalates.sonnenkern): :( [2013/01/10 15:39] SMILE (sigma.avro): wb [2013/01/10 15:39] Maestro Linden: Theresa: if you're talking about inventory offers, those would have the same performance impact (which isn't very much) as sending non-mesh objects [2013/01/10 15:39] Rex Cronon: :) [2013/01/10 15:40] Theresa Tennyson: I'm referring to when the server sends information about surroundings and avatars to someone arriving. [2013/01/10 15:40] Maestro Linden: the main change with threaded rez is just about the performance impact when rezzing complicated meshes [2013/01/10 15:40] Maestro Linden: Ah, that would be the interest list [2013/01/10 15:41] Maestro Linden: I think it's about the same for a mesh object as regular prims, though the viewer will have to download the mesh if it didn't have it cached [2013/01/10 15:41] Maestro Linden: actually, mesh objects are probably better in that case than prims [2013/01/10 15:41] Maestro Linden: if you have like 1 mesh object vs 100 regular prims that approximate the same shape [2013/01/10 15:42] Maestro Linden: in the mesh case, the server only needs to mention the 1 prim, but in the high-primcount case, the message is much larger [2013/01/10 15:42] Theresa Tennyson: There are times when a steady stream of avatars arriving in a region that is already fairly crowded will cause physics framerate to go into the single digits and cause the net time to explode. [2013/01/10 15:43] Theresa Tennyson: And it SEEMS like it happens more in meshy places. [2013/01/10 15:43] Lucia Nightfire: when that happens look at pending downloads and uploads [2013/01/10 15:43] Margithe: even if the mesh itself is 600-800 LI? [2013/01/10 15:43] Lucia Nightfire: physics/net timing swings bad when pending dl's/ul's are present [2013/01/10 15:44] Maestro Linden: well, if you have a giant mesh, rezzing it will be more impactful than rezzing a simple box [2013/01/10 15:44] Margithe: 600-800 isn't a giant mesh, it's the equivalent of an avarage jacket/pants/clothes [2013/01/10 15:45] Rex Cronon: in theory a prims data is small(even 100prims should require around 1mb) while a mesh can be a much bigger file, thefore it would be logical that an object made of many prims should be faster to transfer than a mesh that can be a huge blob. isn't that so? [2013/01/10 15:45] Maestro Linden: well, the asset downloads aren't on the main simulator thread [2013/01/10 15:46] Maestro Linden: so the sim isn't paused while you're downloading the mesh asset [2013/01/10 15:46] Maestro Linden: it's about the same as having big textures on the object [2013/01/10 15:48] Rex Cronon: u could restrict the max size a texture can have to 512x512 [2013/01/10 15:48] Maestro Linden: Yeah, but I'm not sure how well that would go over [2013/01/10 15:48] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): Probably not very well [2013/01/10 15:49] Margithe: There could be a cap on texture size per worn object.. but yeah, nm. [2013/01/10 15:49] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): like a lead zepplin [2013/01/10 15:49] Maestro Linden: the download filesize for a mesh or texture isn't really important for CPU performance on the sim, but of course it impacts the overall scene loading time when you connect with your viewer [2013/01/10 15:49] Kallista Arliss (kallista.destiny): exactly [2013/01/10 15:49] Rex Cronon: i mean the viewer can send a msg to server saying resize all textures that u r sending me to this size [2013/01/10 15:49] Margithe: speaking of things not going over well, i have a can of worms that i'd like to open, but it's just vaguely related to groups. Mind if i do? [2013/01/10 15:50] Rex Cronon: i mean shrink them [2013/01/10 15:50] Maestro Linden: it would be interesting if the unique count of textures and resolutions on an object impacted LI [2013/01/10 15:50] Nal (nalates.sonnenkern): That would be interesting [2013/01/10 15:50] Margithe: I think thats an interesting idea too. [2013/01/10 15:50] Maestro Linden: but I don't think that'll happen [2013/01/10 15:51] Rex Cronon: hope springs eternal:) [2013/01/10 15:51] Nal (nalates.sonnenkern): I haven't heard that there will be LI changes with the addition of the Materials System. That would be the time to do it. [2013/01/10 15:52] Lucia Nightfire: yeah, a little late in the game to add LI behavior based on num of textures or resolutions, lol [2013/01/10 15:52] Margithe: Agreed. There are already worn objects inworld that crash me due the texture load. [2013/01/10 15:52] Maestro Linden: Ah, Nal, the only change is that if your object has a material on it, it will use the new accounting system. Kind of like using custom physics shapes on non-mesh linksets [2013/01/10 15:52] SMILE (sigma.avro): i render only 10 non impostors [2013/01/10 15:53] Rex Cronon: iron man pumping iron:) [2013/01/10 15:54] Nal (nalates.sonnenkern): Well, that is something. BUt, it is an opertunity to add a cost for a new feature to control how it is used. [2013/01/10 15:54] Lucia Nightfire: what abotu existing textured mesh assets? [2013/01/10 15:54] Margithe: everyone ruuun >.< [2013/01/10 15:54] Rex Cronon: nice way to end the meeting;) [2013/01/10 15:54] Lares Carter: That's one way to end the meeting.. [2013/01/10 15:54] Maestro Linden: they always use the new accounting system, Lucia [2013/01/10 15:54] SMILE (sigma.avro): :( this region does not respect meeting time [2013/01/10 15:55] Maestro Linden: ah perfect timing [2013/01/10 15:55] SMILE (sigma.avro): no it was 2 minutes in advance [2013/01/10 15:55] Lucia Nightfire: test [2013/01/10 15:55] Maestro Linden: /me blames Coyot [2013/01/10 15:55] SMILE (sigma.avro): sinchronising clocks [2013/01/10 15:55] Lares Carter: I would vote for limits for avatars: maximum number of scripts and memory as well as per avatar prim limit. [2013/01/10 15:56] SMILE (sigma.avro): or aborting shut down [2013/01/10 15:56] Margithe: So anyhow, the can of worms- maybe you can answer this- Howcome that groups without any donated tier can hold land, for motnhs, possibly years? [2013/01/10 15:56] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): /me blames andrew [2013/01/10 15:56] Margithe: months* [2013/01/10 15:56] Maestro Linden: sounds like a loophole [2013/01/10 15:56] Lucia Nightfire: I was referring to what happens to already existing rezzed mesh if li is changed based on texture res and num of textures [2013/01/10 15:56] SMILE (sigma.avro): dont penalize more the avatars [2013/01/10 15:56] Margithe: It's not much of a loophole if people have been using it for over 2 years, and it's wide-open [2013/01/10 15:57] Rex Cronon: it can hold land and not pay for it? interesting [2013/01/10 15:57] Margithe: Yes you can. [2013/01/10 15:57] Lucia Nightfire: finally it went through, somethign is screwy [2013/01/10 15:57] Lucia Nightfire: getting repeated "denied action" sounds [2013/01/10 15:58] Rex Cronon: i like to say i glad the lag was fixed:) [2013/01/10 15:58] Rex Cronon: tc everybody and have a nice day:) [2013/01/10 15:58] Lares Carter: Thanks for the meeting. [2013/01/10 15:58] Nal (nalates.sonnenkern): Thx Lindens [2013/01/10 15:58] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): cya [2013/01/10 15:58] Rex Cronon: and have fun too:) [2013/01/10 15:58] Maestro Linden: Well, thanks for coming everybody [2013/01/10 15:58] Margithe: The reason for bringing it here, is that there seems to be no automated way of determining if a group has enough donated tier, and kicking them out eventually [2013/01/10 15:58] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): have a good week [2013/01/10 15:58] Lucia Nightfire: ok, regionsrestart now I see... [2013/01/10 15:58] SMILE (sigma.avro): yes, and thanks for warmings Morris [2013/01/10 15:58] Lucia Nightfire: sneaky [2013/01/10 15:58] Maestro Linden: Yes, that seems like it would be a good thing to add [2013/01/10 15:58] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): I am a ten second bomb [2013/01/10 15:58] Nal (nalates.sonnenkern): bye all [2013/01/10 15:59] SMILE (sigma.avro): nice day Lindesn, thks for time [2013/01/10 15:59] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): I am a nine second bomb [2013/01/10 15:59] I am not a furry (coyot.linden): I am an eight second bomb [2013/01/10 15:59] Maestro Linden: See you next week.. [2013/01/10 15:59] Inara Breen: ciao all