Beta Server Office Hours/Minutes/2013-01-24

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[2013/01/24 15:03]  Maestro Linden: okay, let's get started
[2013/01/24 15:03]  Psi Merlin: Hello /all
[2013/01/24 15:03]  Maestro Linden:
[2013/01/24 15:03]  Maestro Linden: which was *just* updated
[2013/01/24 15:04]  Maestro Linden: So this week, we also didn't have anything for the main channel
[2013/01/24 15:04]  Maestro Linden: the only real contender was Magnum's maint-server project, but it had an issue with places search indexing
[2013/01/24 15:05]  Maestro Linden: (namely, regions and parcels were not showing up in results for places)
[2013/01/24 15:05]  Maestro Linden: and that was a blocker for promotion
[2013/01/24 15:06]  Maestro Linden: For the RCs, we gave 2 previously-RCed projects another chance
[2013/01/24 15:06]  Maestro Linden: bluesteel and letigre got the threaded region crossing project
[2013/01/24 15:06]  Maestro Linden: which was previously on RC, but had a crash mode in the old build
[2013/01/24 15:07]  Maestro Linden: So far, I haven't hard anything bad about that project on RC
[2013/01/24 15:08]  Maestro Linden: the other project that went out was the interest list project, which went to Magnum
[2013/01/24 15:08]  Maestro Linden: That one was on BlueSteel and LeTigre very briefly last week
[2013/01/24 15:08]  Maestro Linden: and had to be pulled due to a crash mode
[2013/01/24 15:09]  Rex Cronon: and once again i am in lag hell:(
[2013/01/24 15:09]  Maestro Linden: I believe Magnum has a reasonably low crash rate at this point, but there have been some reports of issues in the release forum post
[2013/01/24 15:10]  Maestro Linden: A few people mentioned issues here:
[2013/01/24 15:11]  Maestro Linden: I do wonder if there's a high bandwidth issue on Magnum, leading to packet loss for people with slower connections
[2013/01/24 15:11]  Whirly Fizzle: WE have seen grumblings about Magnum in Firestorm support since this roll. Symptoms are high packetloss/high ping sim on Magnums only and when an affected avi arrives on a Magnum, they can see other avatars fine YNTIL they move their avatar or move cam, then all avatars derender. Its rather strange. Seems to only affect a minority but they all say pretty much the same thing
[2013/01/24 15:11]  Maestro Linden: have any of you noticed this issue on Magnum in the past 28 hours?
[2013/01/24 15:11]  Whirly Fizzle: *until
[2013/01/24 15:11]  Margithe: Some objects in world not appearing at all or incompletely- this one, i'm not sure if it happened to me and kalebv today. two prims went missing entirely after unlinking them.
[2013/01/24 15:12]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): weve been talking about issues all day with magnum in our dev chat
[2013/01/24 15:12]  Maestro Linden: Hm, that one about avatars derendering does sound like an interest list bug
[2013/01/24 15:12]  Whirly Fizzle: There was a BUG filed for Magnum that also mentioned some tennants not being about to see their houses
[2013/01/24 15:12]  Rex Cronon: i came here about two hour before. i had no lag.
[2013/01/24 15:12]  Maestro Linden: If you enabled 'show updates to objects' in the viewer, I wonder if there's a green particle (for a KillObject message) when avatars disappear
[2013/01/24 15:12]  Margithe: But is it just one person not seeing it, or several people seeing the object as missing?
[2013/01/24 15:13]  Whirly Fizzle: One of out support team also has the "Magnum bu" he can repro it on any Magnum region but not on Main channel or other RCs. He gets the avatars derendering when he tried to move avi or cam issue
[2013/01/24 15:13]  Whirly Fizzle: *our
[2013/01/24 15:13]  Whirly Fizzle: Trying to get him to file a JIRA is like pulling teeth though :D
[2013/01/24 15:14]  Maestro Linden: Yes, I saw the one about missing houses, but unfortunately it was very light on details (didn't say which houses or where the users were standing, and whether other avatars nearby could see the houses)
[2013/01/24 15:14]  Whirly Fizzle: Some of us went to a region our support team member was getting the derendering avies on and we were all fine
[2013/01/24 15:14]  Maestro Linden: we're on the same version as Magnum right now
[2013/01/24 15:15]  Maestro Linden: so far are any of us derendering?
[2013/01/24 15:15]  Whirly Fizzle: Fine for me
[2013/01/24 15:15]  RedMokum Bravin: Fine in viewer 3.4.4.
[2013/01/24 15:16]  Sovereign Engineer: My inventory is broken but I think that's unrelated :(
[2013/01/24 15:16]  Inara Breen: Fine here
[2013/01/24 15:16]  Rex Cronon: no more lag for me?
[2013/01/24 15:16]  Rex Cronon: what happened?
[2013/01/24 15:17]  Maestro Linden: Yeah, that's more of an aditi issue at the moment, Sovereign
[2013/01/24 15:17]  Whirly Fizzle: I got my inventory fixed on Aditi today. Im so happy! No more SVC-7727 \o/
[2013/01/24 15:17]  Maestro Linden: I can't seem to reproduce the high bandwidth issue for now
[2013/01/24 15:17]  Maestro Linden: I'm at 40~50kbps in the viewer stats
[2013/01/24 15:18]  Maestro Linden: which seems reasonable given the level of activity here
[2013/01/24 15:18]  Rex Cronon: the bugs get scarred of u lindens. that is why u can't reproduce it;)
[2013/01/24 15:18]  Maestro Linden: maybe we need some kind of a bug trap
[2013/01/24 15:18]  Blake Burger: just get a bug zapper :p
[2013/01/24 15:19]  Maestro Linden: At this point, I think the region crossing stuff has a better chance of hitting main channel next week
[2013/01/24 15:20]  Rex Cronon: were any changes made of how "land weight" of an object is calculated?
[2013/01/24 15:20]  Maestro Linden: nope, there haven't been any since pathfinding, Rex. at least no intentional changes
[2013/01/24 15:21]  Maestro Linden: and the changes in pathfinding were to make server and streaming cost cheaper in certain cases, as I recall
[2013/01/24 15:22]  Margithe: ...there's no auto-return here.... and i just made a prim vanish.
[2013/01/24 15:22]  Maestro Linden: which one?
[2013/01/24 15:23]  Margithe: Nm, i will try to repro it again, this time naming them better. Don't wait for me
[2013/01/24 15:23]  Maestro Linden: okay
[2013/01/24 15:23]  Maestro Linden: it goes without saying, if you find any bugs with objects or avatars vanishing (or not vanishing when they should), please report them :)
[2013/01/24 15:24]  Maestro Linden: well, I don't have any other news
[2013/01/24 15:24]  Maestro Linden: server support for normal and specular maps is very close to RC
[2013/01/24 15:25]  Maestro Linden: it may even get a slot next week
[2013/01/24 15:25]  Whirly Fizzle: Hmm Tex is trying to pass me a texture and each time he tries, I get this
[2013/01/24 15:25]  Maestro Linden: I've put the remaining enabled 'mesh sandbox' regions on that channel on Aditi (called 'DRTSIM-169'), which will be useful for builders once the viewer is available
[2013/01/24 15:25]  Whirly Fizzle: Maybe my inventory isn't fixed after all :D
[2013/01/24 15:25]  Simon Linden: We should have last week's maintenance RC back next week too
[2013/01/24 15:25]  Whirly Fizzle: *Rex
[2013/01/24 15:26]  Maestro Linden: yes, the places search issue is fixed
[2013/01/24 15:26]  Rex Cronon: i am not trying to send u anything whirly
[2013/01/24 15:26]  RedMokum Bravin: I was
[2013/01/24 15:26]  Whirly Fizzle: Oh sorry, Red
[2013/01/24 15:27]  Lares Carter: Is it normal that object updates (those colored dots) show up at <0, 0, 0> in a region?
[2013/01/24 15:27]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): is there any viewer can can make use of specular maps yet?
[2013/01/24 15:28]  Jonathan Yap: no, geenz is still working on things
[2013/01/24 15:28]  Jonathan Yap: plus someone else is working on the UI I think
[2013/01/24 15:28]  RedMokum Bravin: I get the same vice versa now. Whirly can't pass a texture to me.
[2013/01/24 15:28]  Maestro Linden: I'm not sure there are any public ones. They're still a good ways from complete (between the build tool UI, talking to the server, fetching the materials data, and rendering the result)
[2013/01/24 15:28]  Margithe: btw, will it be then possible to layer alpha textures on one object?
[2013/01/24 15:28]  Whirly Fizzle: Can anyone pass anything to anyone here? o.O
[2013/01/24 15:28]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Geenz said something about that yesterday.
[2013/01/24 15:29]  Sovereign Engineer: erh
[2013/01/24 15:29]  Sovereign Engineer: <.<
[2013/01/24 15:29]  Maestro Linden: I don't believe so, Margithe. Though there are some new options for what the alpha channel means
[2013/01/24 15:29]  Maestro Linden: you can choose...
[2013/01/24 15:29]  Maestro Linden: 1) none (ignores the alpha channel, rendering the face opaque)
[2013/01/24 15:29]  Whirly Fizzle: Nope, Keep getting "system unable to transfer inventory"
[2013/01/24 15:29]  Margithe: Ok. because it would be a decent way to introduce system clothing for mesh avatars.
[2013/01/24 15:29]  Maestro Linden: 2) alpha blending (same as what you have now for any alpha texture)
[2013/01/24 15:30]  NeoBokrug Elytis: I'll add that llRequestRegionData is hella slow right now.
[2013/01/24 15:30]  Maestro Linden: 3) alpha mask (1-bit alpha.. each pixel is either 100% transparent or 100% opaque), with a cutoff setting to determine where the threshold is
[2013/01/24 15:30]  NeoBokrug Elytis: And I can't view notecards.
[2013/01/24 15:30]  Margithe: oh, nice, no more alpha-sorting issues then?
[2013/01/24 15:30]  Maestro Linden: alpha masks render faster than alpha-blended textures. and I think alpha-sorting is a non-issue with them
[2013/01/24 15:30]  Margithe: Yay!
[2013/01/24 15:30]  Maestro Linden: I'm not a graphics expert, but I think that should be a thing of the past
[2013/01/24 15:30]  Blake Burger: transfering texture seemed to work
[2013/01/24 15:31]  Maestro Linden: and finally
[2013/01/24 15:31]  Maestro Linden: 4) emissive mask
[2013/01/24 15:31]  Maestro Linden: which means that the alpha layer is interpreted as a per-pixel glow setting
[2013/01/24 15:31]  Maestro Linden: which should be neat
[2013/01/24 15:31]  RedMokum Bravin: Hmm indeed... don't have permissions to view any notecard here.
[2013/01/24 15:31]  Rex Cronon: i am getting thiss: [15:31] Second Life: System unable to transfer inventory.
[2013/01/24 15:32]  Whirly Fizzle: Same
[2013/01/24 15:32]  Margithe: oh wait.. does that mean something can't both have alpha mask/blending AND the emissive mask?
[2013/01/24 15:32]  Blake Burger: errr.. scratch that... nothing appears in my inventory after transfering textures back and forth...
[2013/01/24 15:33]  Maestro Linden: I think so.. though there would be an overall setting for glow or face transparency, like you have now.
[2013/01/24 15:33]  RedMokum Bravin: [15:32] You don't have permission to view this notecard.
[2013/01/24 15:33]  Blake Burger: no error yet on my side. but nothing appears....
[2013/01/24 15:33]  RedMokum Bravin: (get this on all notecards)
[2013/01/24 15:33]  Margithe: i can read notecards still?
[2013/01/24 15:33]  GEE McAuley: I haven't received the message here but not able to transfer a full perm item here.
[2013/01/24 15:33]  Margithe: (sorry, i'm getting sidetracked)
[2013/01/24 15:33]  Rex Cronon: i can read notecards
[2013/01/24 15:34]  RedMokum Bravin: I can't with Second Life 3.4.4 (268697) viewer
[2013/01/24 15:34]  Maestro Linden: just sent 'workout note' to you, Rex
[2013/01/24 15:35]  Rex Cronon: i got it and i can read it maestro
[2013/01/24 15:35]  Maestro Linden: okay
[2013/01/24 15:35]  Maestro Linden: my suspicion is that there's per-account inventory breakage
[2013/01/24 15:35]  Whirly Fizzle: Did you get what I passed Maestro?
[2013/01/24 15:35]  Rex Cronon: when i tried sending to whirly a texture and a prim i got that error: [15:31] Second Life: System unable to transfer inventory.
[2013/01/24 15:36]  Maestro Linden: I saw the inventory offer message, but it's not appearing in my inventory (and 'show' didn't do anything)
[2013/01/24 15:36]  Sovereign Engineer: My inventory broke after I happened to update my password after like a year
[2013/01/24 15:36]  Sovereign Engineer: <.<
[2013/01/24 15:36]  Nal (nalates.urriah): I can read nc w/3.4.6 (269302) - I think it is more a matter of whether your inventory is working here. -- Did the Lab ever get the bigger hrd drivse for ADITI?
[2013/01/24 15:36]  Whirly Fizzle: Look under notification chicklet and youll see a "Second Life: System unable to transfer inventory."
[2013/01/24 15:37]  Lares Carter: I got no error message when sending a texture to Whirly - you got "grief_001" in your inventory, Whirly?
[2013/01/24 15:37]  Whirly Fizzle: Nope
[2013/01/24 15:37]  GEE McAuley: Ok have it here under notifications.
[2013/01/24 15:38]  Rex Cronon: oh. and i didn't get your boots whirly
[2013/01/24 15:38]  Maestro Linden: I haven't heard anything on that front, Nal
[2013/01/24 15:38]  RedMokum Bravin: Give him the boot Whirly :-p
[2013/01/24 15:38]  Whirly Fizzle: I tried :D
[2013/01/24 15:40]  Rex Cronon: did u get notecard whirly?
[2013/01/24 15:41]  Kaleb Silvercloud: You're just aditi inventory bugged is all..the asset harddrive is full...again....
[2013/01/24 15:41]  Whirly Fizzle: No Dyudtem able to tranfer inventory
[2013/01/24 15:41]  Whirly Fizzle: errr system
[2013/01/24 15:41]  Whirly Fizzle: >.<
[2013/01/24 15:41]  Kaleb Silvercloud: when you're bugged like can either not log in at all....or you can create a new prim on the ground but picking it up will fail.
[2013/01/24 15:42]  Kaleb Silvercloud: as well as trying to rez any of your inventory
[2013/01/24 15:42]  Rex Cronon: the hard drives r full off .... :)
[2013/01/24 15:42]  Kaleb Silvercloud: for aditi
[2013/01/24 15:42]  RedMokum Bravin: Maybe we should create a map #Aditi and that's the only thing that syncs between servers upon pw change.
[2013/01/24 15:43]  Kaleb Silvercloud: if you use an alt with a small inventory you tend not to have that problem...
[2013/01/24 15:43]  Margithe: <--- alt with small inventory.
[2013/01/24 15:43]  Kaleb Silvercloud: this account has like 7000 main has 38000.
[2013/01/24 15:43]  RedMokum Bravin: Don't have those. Only Prokofy thinks I have a million of them. :-(
[2013/01/24 15:43]  Kaleb Silvercloud: I have no problem with this account but my main always has issues
[2013/01/24 15:43]  Whirly Fizzle: <---- 96k :/
[2013/01/24 15:44]  Rex Cronon: we r becoming the digital version of hoarders:)
[2013/01/24 15:44]  Kaleb Silvercloud: put your textures in an organizer. :P
[2013/01/24 15:44]  RedMokum Bravin: That doesn't make the assets go away now.
[2013/01/24 15:44]  Margithe: i wish my RL had organizers.
[2013/01/24 15:44]  Kaleb Silvercloud: it keeps your inventory count lower and you have less issues with your account.
[2013/01/24 15:45]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): it does, margithe, its called the trash bin :P
[2013/01/24 15:45]  RedMokum Bravin: And more with finding back things. Like my Hippo inventory organiser takes a long time to find stuff inside just 1 cube.
[2013/01/24 15:46]  Rex Cronon: btw. anybody know where i find an english version of this:
[2013/01/24 15:46]  Kaleb Silvercloud: is it just me or is maestro's head snapped sideways. :)
[2013/01/24 15:46]  Maestro Linden: I see the same :)
[2013/01/24 15:47]  RedMokum Bravin: Probably lifting too much.
[2013/01/24 15:47]  Nal (nalates.urriah): For me hisnoce is in his tie and when the weight is down it sticks out his ears...
[2013/01/24 15:47]  Kaleb Silvercloud: I'm guessing there hasn't been any more word about the aditi inventory issues other than that script that is suppose to purge some stuff now and then?
[2013/01/24 15:47]  Nal (nalates.urriah): ^his nose
[2013/01/24 15:48]  Maestro Linden: I haven't heard any news about Aditi inventory
[2013/01/24 15:48]  RedMokum Bravin: Ok
[2013/01/24 15:49]  Maestro Linden: I'm not sure why my head is trying to stay upright either
[2013/01/24 15:49]  GEE McAuley: Mæstro needs someone to spot for him.
[2013/01/24 15:49]  Rex Cronon: u r looking at something?
[2013/01/24 15:49]  Kaleb Silvercloud: AO maybe fighting for priority?
[2013/01/24 15:49]  Margithe: it's just the animation. I bet your AO is playing tug-o-war with the lifting anim
[2013/01/24 15:49]  Margithe: yeah.
[2013/01/24 15:49]  Maestro Linden: I'm not focused on any object, really
[2013/01/24 15:50]  Rex Cronon: u should see how your body gets twisted if u r sitting on something while aiming a gun in mouse view
[2013/01/24 15:50]  Margithe: Speaking of which- would it ever be possible to enable changing animation priority after it's uploaded? When the animation is Mod?
[2013/01/24 15:51]  Margithe: it's been an old pain in the butt not even being able to see what priority an animation is
[2013/01/24 15:51]  Maestro Linden: Hm, I think the animation priority info is stored in the animation asset itself
[2013/01/24 15:52]  Margithe: But at least the info could be shown, right?
[2013/01/24 15:52]  Maestro Linden: I think you'd have to create a new asset somehow, or have a new type of message for playing animations, which also includes an override to the builtin priority?
[2013/01/24 15:52]  Nal (nalates.urriah): That might get complex. I think I remember reading that the new anim format upload allows a joint by joint priority.
[2013/01/24 15:53]  Maestro Linden: the viewer ought to be able to show animation priorities; it would have to know the priority to render the animation properly
[2013/01/24 15:53]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): one would think...
[2013/01/24 15:53]  Kaleb Silvercloud: now to get some snowglobe coder to look into it.....or a TPV......
[2013/01/24 15:54]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): snowglobe?
[2013/01/24 15:54]  Margithe: /me smirks
[2013/01/24 15:54]  Jonathan Yap: There are no more snowglobe coders!
[2013/01/24 15:54]  Jonathan Yap: haha
[2013/01/24 15:54]  Jonathan Yap: I think you mean Snowstorm
[2013/01/24 15:54]  Rex Cronon: they r under ice:)
[2013/01/24 15:54]  Kaleb Silvercloud: oh pardon me..snowSTORM
[2013/01/24 15:54]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): snowstorm - V3
[2013/01/24 15:55]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): snowglobe = v1
[2013/01/24 15:55]  RedMokum Bravin: Onto the Blizzard then.
[2013/01/24 15:55]  Jonathan Yap: Sleet and Hail, too
[2013/01/24 15:55]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): former data linden still works for blizzard
[2013/01/24 15:56]  Margithe: So aside the texture stuff, whats next on the roadmap?
[2013/01/24 15:57]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): server side baking
[2013/01/24 15:57]  Whirly Fizzle: How's serverside baking going?
[2013/01/24 15:57]  Maestro Linden: That maint-server which had the places search issue will be back in RC very soon. Aside from that and normal/specular maps support, we have that threaded rez stuff which is on Aditi now
[2013/01/24 15:57]  Kaleb Silvercloud: maybe they'll tackle group chat this year. :D
[2013/01/24 15:58]  Maestro Linden: I haven't heard any updates from the server-side baking team, whirly
[2013/01/24 15:58]  Maestro Linden: oh, though I did find out that we do have some regions for that on aditi
[2013/01/24 15:58]  Maestro Linden: Server-side avatar baking test regions are SunshineTest and SunshineTest1, on Aditi
[2013/01/24 15:58]  Rex Cronon: maybe tackle is the bad choice word. u do know if u tackle something it usually hits the dirt:)
[2013/01/24 16:00]  Sovereign Engineer: Hey Maestro did you say the Mesh Sandboxs had the normal/specular server changes?
[2013/01/24 16:00]  Margithe: is it accessible by script yet?
[2013/01/24 16:00]  Maestro Linden: Yep, these ones specifically:
[2013/01/24 16:00]  Maestro Linden: Mesh Sandbox 3
 Mesh Sandbox 6
 Mesh Sandbox 22
[2013/01/24 16:02]  Whirly Fizzle: For anyone wanting to test serverside baking, viewer downloads, regions & info are here:
[2013/01/24 16:02]  Rex Cronon: for some reason each time i hear "mesh sanbox" i imagine a sandbox where u can push/pull/add/deleted vertices of a mesh:)
[2013/01/24 16:02]  Maestro Linden: Margithe: there is no LSL interface for changing normal/specular maps, kind of like how you can't swap mesh shapes
[2013/01/24 16:02]  Margithe: so on upload only?
[2013/01/24 16:02]  Maestro Linden: the main reason for that is render performance (stuff like UUID-flipping to animate sculpts is very bad for render performance)
[2013/01/24 16:02]  Whirly Fizzle: Bugs for serverside baking go in SUN
[2013/01/24 16:02]  Maestro Linden: it's a build tool setting
[2013/01/24 16:03]  Maestro Linden: the normal and specular maps are uploaded as textures, and then you apply them to an object via the build tool,
[2013/01/24 16:03]  Rex Cronon: i g2g. tc everybody and have a nice day:)
[2013/01/24 16:03]  Maestro Linden: and from there you have the same options for texture mapping
[2013/01/24 16:03]  Maestro Linden: like changing the repeats, offset, rotation, and so on
[2013/01/24 16:03]  Simon Linden: I have to go as well .. thanks everyone for coming today
[2013/01/24 16:03]  Maestro Linden: oh yes, we are out of time
[2013/01/24 16:03]  Maestro Linden: Thanks for coming, everybody!
[2013/01/24 16:03]  Jonathan Yap: thank you everyone
[2013/01/24 16:03]  RedMokum Bravin: Thanks for the updates.
[2013/01/24 16:04]  Nal (nalates.urriah): Thanks Lindens
[2013/01/24 16:04]  Margithe: Right-o Thanks for the meeting!
[2013/01/24 16:04]  Yuzuru (yuzuru.jewell): Thank you, Maestro, Simon
[2013/01/24 16:04]  Lares Carter: Thanks for the meeting.
[2013/01/24 16:04]  Simon Linden: This treadmill really should shoot the runner off the back when you stand up
[2013/01/24 16:04]  Maestro Linden: Hah, yeah
[2013/01/24 16:04]  And all I got was this lousy DN (tankmaster.finesmith): have a good weekend, maestro and simon
[2013/01/24 16:04]  Maestro Linden: You too